Those who “devised” what ABC called “torture memos” and the “methods” they defined, retired ABC News correspondent Sam Donaldson contended on Sunday's This Week, “should be held responsible” and so “should be held accountable in the court of law.” Donaldson allowed that “people who thought they were following the law as outlined” should not be punished, but:
The people who devised these methods and devised these memos, if, in fact, they knew that they were just trying to find cover, just trying to find a way to get around American values and American law and the American Constitution, I think they should be held responsible. I think they should be brought in and if President Obama wants to pardon them as one President pardoned a former President, then let him do so, but they should be held accountable in the court of law.
From the April 19 roundtable, with “'Torture Memos' Debate” as the on-screen heading:
SAM DONALDSON: As to the prosecutions, I agree that people who thought they were following the law as outlined, you can say, well, following orders is no excuse, this is not Nazi Germany, this is not that type of thing, they should not-GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Acting reasonably, believing they were following the law.
DONALDSON: Acting reasonably. But the people who devised these methods and devised these memos, if, in fact, they knew that they were just trying to find cover, just trying to find a way to get around American values and American law and the American Constitution, I think they should be held responsible. I think they should be brought in and if President Obama wants to pardon them as one President pardoned a former President, then let him do so, but they should be held accountable in the court of law.
PEGGY NOONAN: Well, I have reservations about all this. You know, it's hard for me to look at a great nation issuing these documents and sending them out to the world and thinking, oh, much good will come of that. Sometimes in life you want to just keep walking. History has changed. It does change. We have a new administration, a new way. Sometimes I think just keep walking. Don't always be issuing papers and reports.
DONALDSON: People walk who should they be held accountable? Let people walk who may have committed a crime? I don't know they did or not-
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center




















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Old Liberal
April 19, 2009 - 14:58 ET by Jerry MackThere is nothing like an old blame America liberal.
If anyone should be held
April 20, 2009 - 14:40 ET by richardIf anyone should be held accountable in a court of law, it's Sam Donaldson, for wearing that $1.98 wig he's been sporting for the last decade.
The "Jimmy Carter" of Journalism
April 19, 2009 - 15:12 ET by JustAl:-)
Sam Should be Held Accountable
April 19, 2009 - 15:14 ET by allanffor going out in public with that toupee.
(I know this is completely unfair and ad-hominem, but the toupee is just too over the top).
You want to know who should
April 19, 2009 - 16:06 ET by BDYou want to know who should be held liable before a court of law?
How about the editors of the New York Times for publishing everything they can gett heir hands on that will harm their nation during a time of war?
How about you Sam Donaldson, shouldn't THEY be prosecuted publicly?
i wholeheartedly agree
April 19, 2009 - 21:38 ET by puredmashienothing outraged me more than the old grey lady leaking the wiretapping story to give a playbook to the terrorists, while we were at war with the same a$$es who blew up the wtc - isn't that within eyesight of their own building? this is after they sat silent when clinton had his own program listening in on everyone's conversations over the airwaves, regardless of who the talkers were.
yes, the leakers of information should be found and prosecuted.
swing hard in case you hit it.
allanf - the entire MSM should be held accountable..
April 20, 2009 - 10:36 ET by Gary Hallallanf - the entire MSM should be held accountable..
The media should consider how we got to this point. If indeed, they are truly opposed, or shocked, as they claim, by these revelations of 'we will not go beyond a certain point in interrogation’ then they should be taking a hard look at themselves for keeping quiet on the road to this point, and for not promoting (not allowing) an informed and intellectual conversation in the public involving the various leading views on who was comfortable with what.
From Pres. Clinton ranting in a NSA meeting:
From Clinton advising the CIA that he "didn't care what they did with them," to VP Gore (in pushing for extraordinary rendition, saying,.."of curse it's illegal - go grab their ass," to Obama's AG Eric Holder, the national media protected directives and stated views that "shocks their conscience His stated view (2002 interview on CNN):
Stop - Eric Holder has argued Bush's position. Is not he arguing that we can't be bound by others in what we must do to garner the information we must acquire to protect ourselves and others from this threat? He continued:
The media knows this. They literally conspired, silently amongst themselves, not to make the discussion - any meaningful intelligent discussion available to the audience of a very wanting American public. Quite sad, indeed.
For the record - I suspect that a good clean polling of folks would have clearly shown that at least 70%, perhaps 75%, agreed with Holder. Does that mean that they would have agreed with Bush - had their been fairness and truthful reporting?
The hypocrisy out there is thick, and is everywhere!
(;~/ gary
Going to try to post this
April 19, 2009 - 15:27 ET by bigtimerGoing to try to post this one more time...
I saw this earlier today...he and others like him all over the msm are infuriating....they have an agenda and we all know it...these are the same people that loved Frank Church and the destruction he did to our intelligence that keep this country safe...congress leftists are just chomping at the bit with hearings to come, so is the msm, especially msnbc, with Matthews, Olbie and Maddow leading the way...and throw in Shuster...this was done intentionally and anyone old enough to remember will know what I mean.
They will eventually do their best to destroy this country all for their power and pay-backs as they see it to the Bush administration, all the way to the top if they are able. ...this will end up back-firing on them eventually, but in the mean-time, we as a whole in this country are going to be very hurt behind the scenes when it comes to our safety.
God I despise the enemy within.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Mark Levin
April 19, 2009 - 15:41 ET by general companySaid on one of his shows last week that he cant wait for these show trials to start. He suggest they have far more to hide then anyone in the Bush admin, concerning leaks, and treasonist behavior. He also plainly threaten the Obama admin, that if they proceed with any of this nonsense when we return to power, we will return the favor. But he said this time there will be real violations to American security and constitutional violations from the executive branch on down.
Mark is pretty darn familiar with these creatons, they may want to heed what he says
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Exactly gc... What we
April 19, 2009 - 15:49 ET by bigtimerExactly gc...
What we have to remember is the congress members in intelligence were privy to all of this and signed off on it!
Nancy Pelosi, Jane Harmon and others included if memory serves me right...problem is they will not portray it this way, look, they haven't with any of the mess they themselves created with the bail-outs etc...they point to others ...all th while knowing the majority of the msm will be their bully-pulpit with glee...breathless, panting wonder...24/7.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
They didn't read the bailout package...
April 19, 2009 - 17:15 ET by AFCloneare you sure they were aware of the intel? Unless it was made into a cartoon for them. I don't think they have the brain power to understand anything less. Heck, the President had a tea party outside the White House and he was "unaware of any tea party"? Dude, look out the window!
Lord!
April 19, 2009 - 17:03 ET by CyranoI don't see how you can stand to listen to Mark Levin. He's like that Billy Mays guy -- every time I turn him on I want to say "Stop yelling at me!!!"
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Right now America needs a
April 19, 2009 - 17:09 ET by BDRight now America needs a Drill Sergeant to yell at it as it has become lazy and soft in the middle.
Levin provides that in spades.
BD... Hear! Hear! Doubling
April 19, 2009 - 17:14 ET by bigtimerBD...
Hear! Hear!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I guess a drone
April 19, 2009 - 17:18 ET by general companylike you may feel that way. For some reason, I am perfectly happy about it as well.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
"DRONE"?!?!
April 19, 2009 - 17:30 ET by CyranoAre you saying I bomb Pakistanis?!?! lol
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
No,
April 19, 2009 - 17:37 ET by general companyYou wouldnt do that, but you might bomb Texas.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
After all, as a good
April 19, 2009 - 17:41 ET by BDAfter all, as a good liberal, they see the enemies of our nation as allies in their fight against their true enemies - conservatives.
What a load of horse s*#t
April 19, 2009 - 17:55 ET by CyranoLiberals have the same hopes and dreams about this wonderful nation as you. We just disagree about how to accomplish them.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Nonsnese. Liberals do not
April 20, 2009 - 08:16 ET by BDNonsnese.
Liberals do not desire economic growth, in fact they seek to ruin it.
Liberals do not desire military security, in fact they seek to deny it to the nation.
Liberals do not seek true freedom through self reliance, in fact they prefer lives of no consequense to specifically avoid responsibility.
You do not have my hopes and dreams, trust me,
Actually...
April 19, 2009 - 17:45 ET by CyranoI'd bomb the sh*t outta Pakistan! Lots more enemies there than we ever had in Iraq.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Realy?
April 19, 2009 - 19:04 ET by general companyPakistan is a demacratic nation, we have NEVER taken arms against a Democracy. Sure they have bad folks there, that is what Iraq helped to eradicate. You liberals will never it seems understand the pure beauty of the invasion of Iraq. First off we had every right to because of the broken peace treaty. Plus it gave the terrorist a place to die for their cause, so to speak. If we dont get attacked in the next few years, you should thank the Bush admin for crushing them profusely over there and not waiting for them over here.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
General Company
April 19, 2009 - 19:14 ET by MrShyI agree. I also see the toppling of the dictator Saddam Hussein and our invasion of Iraq as a stroke of genius, that I guess those who don't really think out of the box just are not able to recognize -- or their ideological hatred of anything GOP simply won't allow them to really think independent of partisanship:
A) Saddam was a thug and needed to be dealt with at some point.
B) Iraq is bulls-eye in the center of the Middle East region. That ALONE makes it prime real estate for us to see that it becomes stabilized... it's in ours and the west's best interests.
C) It sucked in so many "fighters" (terrorists) from outside that we killed.
D) Having a stable Iraq AND Afghanistan as now TWO alleys in the M.E. region further isolates bad players like Iran and Syria.
But smaller minds like Cyrano just bang their little "what did Iraq do to us?" drum.
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
You forgot one, MrShy
April 19, 2009 - 19:20 ET by AFCloneE) Stops the flow of money to the terrorist's families. Talk about welfare. Just have to kill yourself to ensure your families well-being.
Yep, note the lack of
April 20, 2009 - 08:18 ET by BDYep, note the lack of suicide bombing on the beach in Tel Aviv since we removed Saddam and Isreal built the wall?
Now the bad guys have to loft unguided rockets into southern and northern Isreal instead of blowing up packed beachside restaurants.
S.O.P.
April 19, 2009 - 15:28 ET by Del DolemonteNothing new, Sammy is just parroting this morning's NY Times editorial, where the Fishwrap's "editors" call for the evil Cheney to be put on trial.
And for a barf-followup, read MoDo's Sunday pile of droppings; she's also upset that she doesn't have Bush and Cheney to hate any more. Poor dear.
Hey Del... Long time no
April 19, 2009 - 15:39 ET by bigtimerHey Del...
Long time no see!
Anyway...glad to see you here and I just cannot force myself to read MoDo today...I like how you summed it up.
Works for me...along with the treasonous NYT's ;-)
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Really, how cares what this man says? He's as predictable ...
April 19, 2009 - 15:31 ET by CKA in Red State USA. . . as Barack Obama lying daily, on everything.
Mr. Donaldson...
April 19, 2009 - 15:34 ET by dborschjr68As a combat veteran, I must say to you that whatever actions taken by the military to protect this nation are, in my credible opinion, NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.
How dare you seek to punish anyone for protecting America. Shame on you, sir.
If this goes through, if these people are brought to trial and questioned, than I can think of about 100 or so former military fellas, like myself, who should stand trial as well.
Defending America is not pretty. It is not Hollywood. The good guys sometimes die, and the bad guys sometimes live. It is no place for an unarmed journalist to play about and vainly seek notoriety and fame.
In my experience, journalists who were seeking that "big story" were in the very real danger of friendly fire, just to get them back to the States where they would no longer be an inconvenience to us completing the objectives at hand.
I gladly, GLADLY did what was required of me, and my men did the same. End of story. At no time did I or my men ask any journalist if it was okay to do what we did. We never wrote home asking Americans if they minded what we were doing.
Defending this nation is messy, messy stuff, folks. Let it alone. Don't look into it. Just be happy and thankful and be on your way.
Only a handful of times has an article pissed me off, and this is one of them. I would easily slap Mr. Donaldson about the jowls and demand he apologize for his arrogant statements.
Such impudence, such gall, such audacity. How dare he.
De Oppresso Liber.
Thank-you for your
April 19, 2009 - 15:45 ET by Carl KolchakThank-you for your service. We are very proud of you. Not sure if you've seen this video or not, but check it out. Wallace and Peter Jennings are given hypothetical questions about knowing that there will be an advanced ambush on American soldiers. Jennings at first says he would tell the approaching Americans, but later changes his answer. Make sure to checkout the response at the end by the Marine colonel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGg_dpGhlf0
Carl, saved that YT clip, wow,, TV generation.
April 19, 2009 - 16:23 ET by upcountrywaterSit back and watch, it's just a show..
Liberal Zombies
P.R.I.N.T. Money 30 sec YT
Great video Carl
April 19, 2009 - 17:45 ET by general companyGoes to show where the priority is for the avarage reporter is. sad
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
OMG, how I love the Night Stalker Series...
April 19, 2009 - 21:45 ET by pahuberI've all but three or four of them. The actor who played CK did not like the role, but too bad it was fun to watch...cept when they preempted for the WG hearings. Too young to know who to kill for that ; )
I show my kids the NS series and they laugh at me, but one or two they like.
Too bad that dude was most likely a lib.
I hate these fools...
April 19, 2009 - 15:38 ET by Jack HermanWhen I heard of these memos being released, I feared that we would find that some truly abusive methods were being used. (If that's not understandable to the MSM crowd, review some of the tactics used against our servicemen by our former and present enemies) These methods are tame by comparison.
What we have here is President Obama providing information for the Al Qaeda training manual. Chapter 10, Methods to combat US interrogation techniques.
It was absolutely stupid to release this information.
The memo's also
April 19, 2009 - 16:47 ET by general companyContain some info on the phone surveillance program, where the liberals are up in arms about a US congress woman have been screened. What I want to know is who is this congress woman and who and why was she calling suspected terrorist in foreign countries? So when these trials start, they had better be prepared to out these folks as well.
Who want to bet it was Pelosi?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Donaldson should be
April 19, 2009 - 15:39 ET by 10ksnookerBrought up on charges of impersonating a journalist.
Defining the depths of new dumb.
Congress? They know about as much about a real journalist...
April 19, 2009 - 16:34 ET by CKA in Red State USA. . .as they do about what a real congressman or congresswoman should be doing.
I hope when I get to
April 19, 2009 - 15:53 ET by BlazerI hope when I get to Donaldson's age I also can achieve immaculate helmet hair. I'll bet he uses Aqua net. Not today's Aqua Net mind you, but the old pre cfc ban 1970's Aqua Net.
I'll bet he has that stuff wharehoused. Stingy bastard.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Aqua Net is not environmentally friendly
April 19, 2009 - 17:07 ET by AFCloneHe's using cement. That way, when someone finally has enough and hits him over the head with a 2x4, it won't hurt as much. ;)
So . . . Liberals = those
April 19, 2009 - 16:00 ET by RagamuffinSo . . .
Liberals = those who want justice?
Wow... More Deep Thoughts
April 19, 2009 - 16:52 ET by bigtimerWow...
More Deep Thoughts from Ragamuffin.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I am curious...
April 19, 2009 - 16:17 ET by jdripperWhich of Georgies puppet masters Paul Begala, James Carville, or Rahm Emmanuel prompted him to have this discussion?
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
Hey, ya know...
April 19, 2009 - 17:11 ET by CyranoIf they broke the law then they should be held accountable. We are a nation of laws, right? Since when do we excuse a crime simply because it occurred under extraordinary circumstances?
"Hey, don't try me for robbing that bank... I mean, I was hungry!"
Yeah, that'd get you pretty far....
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Cy... Name the laws that
April 19, 2009 - 17:23 ET by bigtimerCy...
Name the laws that they broke at the time....that probably saved a lot of leftists sorry asses who don't know how to spell gratitude let alone know the meaning and appreciate it.
Sorry state this country is coming to with people like you...in my opinion of course.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Ok...
April 19, 2009 - 17:38 ET by CyranoFirst, there's U.S. law:
http://www4.law.corn...
And then there's international law:
Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is
satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected
of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such
individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and
privileges under the present Convention [ie GCIV] as would ... be
prejudicial to the security of such State ... In each case, such
persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity (GCIV Article 5)
Also:
If there is a question of whether a person is a lawful combatant, he
(or she) must be treated as a POW "until their status has been
determined by a competent tribunal" (GCIII Article 5).
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Just because they call it torture
April 19, 2009 - 17:35 ET by general companyDoesn't mean it was torture. BTW have you read the memo's? Did you notice that while they were calling cold room and sleep deprivation and tight confinement torture, they blocked out the information they got from the terrorist? But I guess the good news for you drones is that now the terrorist can now practice their fear of caterpillars and be perfectly comfortable while in our custody. That is if we dont decide to release them instantly. BTW why was a Congress woman caught talking to terrorist by the phone surveillance program
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Haven't read the memos, no
April 19, 2009 - 17:42 ET by CyranoI mean I glanced at them, but I haven't been through them word for word.
And I don't know what you're asking about a congresswoman.
What I DO know is that waterboarding has been considered torture since the Spanish Inquisiton -- we Americans have prosecuted it as torture -- so if it came to court and the Bush peeps tried to say it was not, they would have years of case law in opposition.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
You mean like gay marriage
April 19, 2009 - 17:45 ET by AFCloneAfter all, if a thing has been established for years as being a certain opinion, then it can never be overturned, right?
LOL
April 19, 2009 - 17:47 ET by CyranoWhen we get to the point when gay marriage can be legalized nationwide by a simple opinion paper from a DOJ flunkie, perhaps then you'll have a valid argument.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Nope
April 19, 2009 - 17:54 ET by AFCloneThey just allow the courts to do it....no matter what the opinion of the people are, but that's another argument.
And don't give Obama's DoJ any ideas...they'll probably try it.
But for a shocker, yes, torture is bad. They should have shot the bastards when they found them on the battlefield. After all, they wanted to martyr themselves; might as well help them.
Actually, by international law, you're right!
April 19, 2009 - 18:00 ET by CyranoFact is, if we shoot them in the field we're clear.
But once we take them into our custody we are required by the Geneva Conventions to treat them properly.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Wrong again
April 19, 2009 - 18:05 ET by general companyThe GC doesnt enter into it. They are not enemy combatants, they are the equivalent of spy's, saboteurs
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I've been reading the memos
April 19, 2009 - 18:31 ET by AFClone(reminds me why i didn't take law....boy is it long winded)
My opinion of this is that the group (because the memos say "we") did a thorough search and review of the law and with the information provided, made a determination....like a court would do for a criminal case (can we use this evidence or this confession etc) Obviously a great deal of thought and analysis was taken and advice was given. So exactly what is the problem? The lawyers had determined that the actions were not in violation with U.S. law. Other lawyers have disagreed. I'm sure judges were also consulted. The actions described reminds me of college hazing (yes it does, really. While I never did waterbording, I was blindfolded and dropped off in the middle of nowhere in the month of December and told to find my way back without being caught) Also, the physical fatigue? Sounds like drill training to me. So, my opinion is that this is a non issue.
Well, sorry...
April 19, 2009 - 18:45 ET by CyranoBut both international law and U.S. case law disagree with you.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Cyrano
April 19, 2009 - 19:00 ET by AFCloneWell, no, actually it doesn't. Did the writers make this stuff up? No, they looked at case law and international law and made a determination. It is of your opinion and some other lawyer's opinion that they should have gone the other way.
That is what the debate is...difference of opinion. I disagree with your opinion. Simple as that. I disagree with Donaldson's opinion. He disagrees with the memo writers' opinion. Etc, etc.
Not true
April 19, 2009 - 18:43 ET by CyranoAs signatories to the GCs we are required to treat all prisoners -- once they are in our costody -- in a humane manner. No matter what their "classification" was in the field.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
That is simply false
April 19, 2009 - 18:55 ET by general companyShow me a statement such as that in the GC, news for you, it doesnt exsist.
in a humane manner
Not a spy, the fact is unidentified combatants can be coerced to fine their motive and origins. This is why all US troops have an American flag promidently displayed on their shoulder.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Here...
April 19, 2009 - 18:59 ET by CyranoWhere in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is
satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected
of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such
individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and
privileges under the present Convention [ie GCIV] as would ... be
prejudicial to the security of such State ... In each case, such
persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity (GCIV Article 5)
Then there's this:
If there is a question of whether a person is a lawful combatant, he
(or she) must be treated as a POW "until their status has been
determined by a competent tribunal" (GCIII Article 5).
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
This doesnt do it
April 19, 2009 - 19:31 ET by general companyWhere in the territory of a Party to the conflict,
OK how do you establish this?
the latter is
satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected
of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State,
Or this?
In each case, such
persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity
When there were 2 Dr's. present during interrogation at all times, and the terrorist was given a medical physical and was given the ok by said Dr's to be heathy enough for enhanced interrogations. Plus all procedures were not used to the fullest extent, (time, stress) and we did not disfigure any nor did any expire do to these interrogations. I would have to say, we did treat them humanly. We only water boarded 3 of them, it is said Khalid Sheik Mohammed gave up other planned attacks in less then 40 seconds of water boarding with 2 Dr's present and trained personal doing the deed.
If we didnt use these tactics and many more people died, is that really worth the trade, because that its what is boils down to. Making creeps uncomfortable or letting more innocent folks die. Another thing needs to be addressed here, we did not want to hold many of these folks, but their country of origin would either refuse them or would kill them instantly, see Chinese in Gitmo. So I ask, who is more human.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Spanish Inquisition.
April 19, 2009 - 21:54 ET by LindamaeI think you are confusing keel hauling to waterboarding - not the same thing. In the first you would probably die and in the second you would be terrified but allowed to return to your cot for the night. We Americans have ot prosecuted waterboarding as torture because it is not. If it were, then Nancy Pelosi would have put her foot down to stop in in 2001 or 2002 since she worked with the CIA on American torture methods.
If you really want to discuss torture, read about what was done during the Spanish Inquisition. Or what is done in other countries today. We do not deserve to feel bad about our methods since they did work. Frankly, I don't want to know how many plots were stopped because our blabbermouth press feels no national honor to put security first and babble second.
gc... Bingo! I guess we
April 19, 2009 - 17:46 ET by bigtimergc...
Bingo!
I guess we should be passing out sunshine and lollipops to the terrorists who would behead any of us in a second flat if they could...plus a work-pass to stay here until they have their day in court like Napolitano did with the illegal aliens that were busted in Washington State and go after ICE and other agencies...along with the companies....
This country is upside down...and the enemies on both sides of us are glad of it.
I want my country back...that is another reason we are going to a Tea Party Protest the 4th...we have had it!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
liberal logic
April 19, 2009 - 17:42 ET by MrShy"Hey, don't try me for robbing that bank... I mean, I was hungry!"
...is in another galaxy from...
"Hey, don't try me for using a drowning scare-tactic on a handful of the most unbelievably dangerous, fully-radicalized, ruthless, harder-than-hardcore Muslim extemists with orders from Allah to do away with Western infidels... I mean, I was using these methods because we need all the information we can get to avoid future catastrophic attacks aimed to kill as many civilians as possible on our soil, our interests abroad, and basically all democratic-based free countries/societies in the world.
Cyrano, drop the non-issue of what we do with Islamic fundamental prisoners/detainees of *WAR*.
Get a life. Seriously.
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
Mr Shy
April 19, 2009 - 17:44 ET by CyranoDid you read the part where they said they really didn't get any further information from him after they started torturing him?
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Drop it. And I'm not going
April 19, 2009 - 17:57 ET by MrShyDrop it. And I'm not going waste my time asking you who "they" is, and what "really didn't" means vs. "didn't", etc..
Stop caring about this. It's a non-issue.
There are things you can take conservative-sided ideology/politics/methods to task on, but this should be a universal, bi-partisan no-brainer. Sadly, people like you still want to play politics with it.
We live in a dangerous world. Our country stands for good vs. evil, and whatever we have been doing to *Islamic fundamentalist prisoners of war* is nobel and right, and this country -- and our interests abroad -- have not had a major attack that has killed hundreds or thousands brought upon us since September 11, 2001. Amen to that.
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
Oh Please...
April 19, 2009 - 17:58 ET by CyranoThere were what, eight years? between the first attack on the WTC and the second? Al Queda takes years to plan these things out. They are very patient. And somehow the right attributes the time lag to their efforts.
It's like the cock taking credit for the rising of the sun.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
rooting for Al Queda
April 19, 2009 - 18:11 ET by MrShy"There were what, eight years? between the first attack on the WTC and the second? Al Queda takes years to plan these things out. They are very patient. And somehow the right attributes the time lag to their efforts."
Almost sounds to me like you're rooting for the next one.
Read carefully what I wrote. Since 9/11, no major attacks on our soil and *our interests abroad*. There's a list of Al-Quada sponsored attacks in the years between 1993 and 2001. Look it up yourself.
Who's side are you on, Cyrano? I really want to know.
You're the next contestant on...
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Not even worth discussion
April 19, 2009 - 18:47 ET by CyranoYour dittohead talking points are below contempt.
I am an American.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Cyrano
April 19, 2009 - 18:54 ET by MrShyWe all just want to understand why you have this obsessive concern for the treatment of a few enemy-combatant prisoners of war who are known hardline radical Islamists.
Seriously, it's baffling to pretty much all logical-thinking Americans, like myself, who want a safe and secure world to live in.
You're the next contestant on...
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"who want a safe and secure world to live in"
April 19, 2009 - 18:57 ET by CyranoAs do I. We disagree on how to accomplish that.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Cyrano
April 19, 2009 - 19:02 ET by MrShyGreat. Then, post-9/11, you're President Cyrano...
How would you have handled going after this cancer that is Muslim extremism?
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My solution
April 19, 2009 - 19:17 ET by AFCloneNuke 'em. Solves that problem, now doesn't it.
AFClone
April 19, 2009 - 19:29 ET by MrShyGot your other E) comment, and thanks.
Yeah, I live near ground zero... few miles up in NYC. My uncle, who I'm pretty sure is a liberal -- as almost all of my family and extended are -- called around noon on 9/11 and in a very loud and emotional voice pretty much said what you're saying.... "Just drop a bomb on that whole f-ing region!!"
I can tell you, MOST Americans -- party affiliation aside -- felt this and wanted this on that day.
Instead, Bush & Co. kept a cool head and really came up with a great long-term plan to rid the world of this barbaric cancer that was spreading, and if you ask me, looking back on these past eight years, it's been pretty successful. And we never dropped a bomb on anyone WHILE liberating two despot countries.
Pretty amazing stuff. And Bush is constantly vilified. Makes me sick, really.
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I hear 'ya, MrShy
April 19, 2009 - 19:32 ET by AFCloneBeing a past ICBMer, nukes are my friend. Incredible weapon, when you think about it. Nasty to say the least, but just light one or two up, and you stop a World War. Just the testing in the 50's and 60's was enough to stop a third World War (think about....if the U.S. and Soviet Union hadn't done testing we couldn't have seen what the others capability was...we would have just gone in to Cuba without a second thought)
I saw some of the intel reports before we went into Iraq. Scared the geebers out of me. A nuke sounded good then too.
AFClone, Know anything about the Atlas D
April 20, 2009 - 01:22 ET by upcountrywaterMy dead father worked on that one, and some others ( Titan3), before that ramjets. Being an aeronautical engineer, working with supersonic air flows, and Pressure Pulses, turns out he was a rocket scientist...A few years of ICBM's finally drove him out of rocketry...
Will man will ever leave earth orbit again? Only 24 Americans did it so far; oh yea ,all of them came back alive 100% success rate.
AFC, may I suggest a cruise nuke solution Fly this for months over iran at Mach 3
Once it reached cruising altitude and was far away from populated areas
the nuclear reactor would be turned on. Since nuclear power gave it
almost unlimited range, the missile could cruise in circles over the
ocean until ordered 'down to the deck' for its supersonic dash to
targets in the Soviet Union. The SLAM as proposed would carry a payload
of many nuclear weapons to be dropped on multiple targets, making the
cruise missile into an unmanned bomber.
All this in the 60's..
P.R.I.N.T. Money 30 sec YT
AF... Yep... Simple as
April 19, 2009 - 19:29 ET by bigtimerAF...
Yep...
Simple as that.
We should have got it done and over with years ago...along with some other issues...like exporting all CAIR and their ilk members here within....just for starters.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Would have been cheaper too.
April 19, 2009 - 19:34 ET by AFCloneAnd wouldn't that have made the Democrat Party happy since they complained about how much it costs...we would still be in the millions, wait, no, the Democrats would still be in charge, so they would find other reasons to keep it at a trillion.
Af... Leftists are never
April 19, 2009 - 19:43 ET by bigtimerAf...
Leftists are never happy-campers.
Ever.
Vitriol is the motto for their never-ending agenda.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
"I am an American." And
April 19, 2009 - 23:27 ET by ckc1227"I am an American."
And you wake up hating yourself everyday because of it.
So you are blaming Clinton
April 19, 2009 - 18:11 ET by general companyThere were what, eight years? between the first attack on the WTC and the second? Al Queda takes years to plan these things out.
For the 9/11 attack? Wow, I would not even go that far, but considering all of the emboldment Obama has given our enemies, I will be blaming him for the next one
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Nope
April 19, 2009 - 18:49 ET by CyranoClinton made AQ a top priority.
He handed the files off to Bush, who poo-pooed the problem. Even after he was handed a memo saying "Al Quaida plans to strike inside the U.S." or whatever it said.
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
Doubling down on stupid is
April 19, 2009 - 18:59 ET by bigtimerDoubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
"Clinton made AQ a top
April 19, 2009 - 19:04 ET by MrShy"Clinton made AQ a top priority."
BS. And what's worse, deep down you have to know it's BS.
Also, Bush sadly did not make AQ a top priority either until 9/11. Then, thankfully, he and his administration actually DID make it a priority from that point forward and now you are out to marginalize and/or demonize his efforts.
Like I stated before, put your partisan dislike of Bush and Repubs/conservatives aside with this issue. Be both grateful and thankful to him for the hard decisions he had to make during his two terms to combat this evil. Please? It's not asking a lot.
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MrS... Not worth it...it
April 19, 2009 - 19:08 ET by bigtimerMrS...
Not worth it...it is never gonna' happen.
I just got done reading a bunch of stuff I googled I could have saved the links to and sent to Cy...it is a waste of time...I'm mad at myself I did.
Once a troll....always a troll...a return one or not.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Don't have to now guys.
April 19, 2009 - 20:17 ET by JWFHe is gone.
Wow
April 19, 2009 - 20:29 ET by general companyWhat happend?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
gc, I think he got his plug pulled for the 2nd time in a week.
April 19, 2009 - 20:34 ET by R D Helm:-)
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
Some talent
April 19, 2009 - 20:45 ET by general companyWas this a result of JWF's investigating?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Darn it JWF
April 19, 2009 - 20:31 ET by AFCloneI just might cry...
"Swing Low, Sweet Chariot....Comin' for to carry me home"
Clinton made AQ a top priority???
April 19, 2009 - 20:27 ET by R D HelmLiar.
He did nothing of the kind, and you damn well know it.
While Billy Joe Bob Bubba Clinton was playing "hide the cigar" with a fat intern, AQ attacked this country five times.
They attacked us only once under GWB.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
Clinton made AQ a top
April 19, 2009 - 21:09 ET by BlazerClinton made AQ a top priority.
BwaHahahah! Now that's comedy gold right there. Clinton loved to bomb aspirin factories, and then get his panties all in a wad and do his best to keep the real truth from coming out vis-a- vis Path To 9/11
Which clearly showed this clown of a president could have killed Bin-Ladin, way before 9-11.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Yeah, AQ was such a
April 20, 2009 - 08:23 ET by BDYeah, AQ was such a priority that after each attack on us that AQ pulled, Clinton did ---virtually NOTHING.
No attacks on AQ's center of gravity, no attempts to seize the key terrain, no efforts to determine AQ's culmination point.
Clinton simply rode them out and waited for the next.
Thanks to the supposed torture
April 19, 2009 - 18:01 ET by general companyhave not had a major attack that has killed hundreds or thousands brought upon us since September 11, 2001. Amen to that.
Amen indeed. One thing for sure, if we are attacked tomorrow, the blame will be firmly Obama's responsibility, not that I expect him to take any
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
BS
April 19, 2009 - 18:05 ET by CyranoSee my post, above
I'm ugly, but I'm eloquaint... elaquent... elly... I tawk reel gud!
I did
April 19, 2009 - 18:13 ET by general companyIt was inspiration for my next one
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
you got it there gc
April 19, 2009 - 18:08 ET by botgthe world is watching for b-ho's next comic move
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read" ---Groucho
Obama's tax cheats
April 19, 2009 - 21:42 ET by LindamaeIf there was a law being respected then Obama would not have many of his staff since they are tax cheats. Giethner - not only did he not pay his taxes for 4 years but he also signed an release from IMF that he did so that he could be given partial reimbursement for taxes he never paid. To me, that is not just tax evasion or error - poor TurboTax - they should sue him for millions for his claim he used their product - but also perjury and fraud. But he is the best Obama can find - another tacky Chicago style politician. I won't list the others who do not deserve to be in high office because of their background because it's been available everywhere - except perhaps on the main stream media news because it puts Obama in a bad light.
Who should be in jail?
April 19, 2009 - 17:29 ET by iveseenitallBarry and his cronies should go to jail for publishing these "Top Secret" memos for no reason but to score some political points. They put us all in danger. Disgusting!
BTW, I am constantly amazed (and disgusted) at the disrespect all these turds show to those who protect us and our freedom. Look at Napolitano of DHS. She profiles our veterans, and makes them targets of her politics. I can't express how sickened I am by this crap. May they all rot in Hell.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
isia... Amen... ...and
April 19, 2009 - 17:37 ET by bigtimerisia...
Amen...
...and not just the Veterans either.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Is this petrified-fossil of
April 19, 2009 - 17:42 ET by mostlymoderateIs this petrified-fossil of a 'journalist' still at it? This guy was a has-been when I was still in diapers! More like petrified-tu#d.
writing a memo that
April 19, 2009 - 18:14 ET by GeronLwriting a memo that leftists disagree with is a crime. Policy must be criminalized.
The Obama State Media and the Obama Regime are on the march.
A lot of people may be
April 19, 2009 - 21:25 ET by RR GOPA lot of people may be murdered so these jerks can feel good about themselves.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Hypocracy
April 19, 2009 - 21:36 ET by LindamaeLinda Mae
There is a list of Congressmen - and women since Nancy Pelosi is also on the list - who worked closely with the CIA from the beginning to the middle of the 2000's and were privy to ALL methods of interrogations. That everyone wants to forget them - I think there were more than 10 - and place the blame solely on Bush gives evidence that the millions George Soros spent trying to discredit Bush was money well spent. Everyone seems to have selective amnesia.
This is not a movie - not 1984 where we are watching every minute of the day unfold on our TV screens. That the media can equate our methods of "torture" with what was done to McCain in VietNam, or those who have been beheaded - push their liberal agendas too far. Furthermore, I don't want to know the particulars of interrogations since national security is at stake. Remember the bragging after the Gulf War that by watching our nightly news, the enemy did not have to spend one dime on intelligence because Anerican TV gave them all of the info they needed. Remember the covert operation which began with soldiers jumping off boats to get to the shore only to find our wonderful media already waiting for them with cameras running. Where has common sense gone?
Ask Pelosi who else worked with her in overseeing the CIA and their methods of torture. There were Democrats and Republicans alike. They need to be in the same group as the CIA and those doing the interrogations.Or google it. Pelosi needs to be held accountable in the Court of Law as well, Mr. Donaldson. Of course, the classic definition of torture does not apply to what was done but we want to keep using it in order to prove a point.
Ask George why he didn't ask? Perhaps it is time for him to leave his job since it becomes apparent that he is unable to divorce his professional integrity from his personal bias and friendship with Rahm, Jim, Paul and Stan - and that his morning conference calls with them have clouded his ability to keep their agenda out of his show. I no longer take what he has to say seriously since he is no more than a shill for the administration. We the American public deserve better.