ABC's World News and the NBC Nightly News gave plenty of time to left-wing environmentalists and Democrats opposed to President Bush's call to open up oil drilling off the shores of the continental U.S., but unlike the CBS Evening News the two newscasts provided equal time to supporters and experts who predicted it would lower gas prices. CBS reporter Bill Whitaker began with pro and con soundbites, but his story quickly deteriorated into a brief against the proposal with opponents and those saying it would do nothing to lower prices getting twice as many soundbites (4) as supporters (2).
Whitaker used California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to illustrate “bipartisan” opposition as he reminded viewers of a spill nearly 40 years ago: “In California, which suffered a devastating oil spill from a rig off Santa Barbara in 1969, opposition to offshore drilling is bipartisan.” Following a soundbite from Schwarzenegger, Whitaker hailed how “from Republican Governor Schwarzenegger to local environmentalists, California is largely green.” Whitaker next tried to undermine the proposal: “Drilling opponents say reserves off California wouldn't last long. In fact, at current consumption rates, 21 million barrels a day, Americans would use up the estimated 18 billion barrels off the coasts all around the country in less than two and a half years.”
For expertise, Whitaker featured only Severin Borenstein of the University of California: “Even if we approved oil drilling off the coast today, it would have no effect on the price of oil and no effect on the price we're paying for gasoline for five or ten years.”
But on the NBC Nightly News, Mark Potter ran a soundbite from energy analyst Daniel Yergin who predicted allowing offshore drilling “would send a psychological message to the world oil market which would affect prices before any of that new oil actually started to arrive.”
On ABC, Betsy Stark cited the same estimate of how the offshore oil represents “about two and a half years worth of U.S. consumption at current rates” and paraphrased the opinion of the experts she consulted: “Just the expectation of increasing domestic production at a time of tight supplies could drive down prices.”
The MRC's Brad Wilmouth corrected the closed-captioning against the video to provide this transcript of the story on the Wednesday, June 18 CBS Evening News anchored by Russ Mitchell:
RUSS MITCHELL: Now to a major political battle that is brewing over oil. There are billions of barrels of crude off the U.S. coast, but drilling for new wells has been banned for a quarter century. Today President Bush said America needs that oil, and called on Congress to take action so the oil companies can get it. Here's Bill Whitaker.
BILL WHITAKER: With gas prices topping $4 a gallon, President Bush says relief is at hand by lifting federal bans on offshore drilling, bans imposed in the 1980s by Congress and strengthened by the first President Bush. Today the current President Bush took aim at Congress, pressing Democrats to act first.
GEORGE W. BUSH: Americans will rightly ask how high oil, how high gas prices have to rise before the Democratic-controlled Congress will do something about it.
WHITAKER: Democrats fired right back.
REP. ED MARKEY (D-MA): If this was a good plan, then they would have adopted it over the six years they controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency.
WHITAKER: Democrats are lining up behind Barack Obama to oppose offshore drilling. Republicans pushing to open the taps. In the midst of the hot debate, John McCain and one of his possible VP choices, the Governor of Florida, reversed course and now support drilling.
GOVERNOR CHARLIE CRIST (R-FL): So long as it's done safely and protects our beautiful beaches and protects our state.
WHITAKER: But in California, which suffered a devastating oil spill from a rig off Santa Barbara in 1969, opposition to offshore drilling is bipartisan.
GOVERNOR ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R-CA): I myself want to do everything that I can to make sure that California is protected.
WHITAKER: From Republican Governor Schwarzenegger to local environmentalists, California is largely green.
MARK GOLD, HEAL THE BAY: You get a much bigger improvement in a much shorter period of time by really aggressively going after conservation than you ever would with offshore oil drilling.
WHITAKER: Drilling opponents say reserves off California wouldn't last long. In fact, at current consumption rates, 21 million barrels a day, Americans would use up the estimated 18 billion barrels off the coasts all around the country in less than two and a half years.
SEVERIN BORENSTEIN, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA ENERGY INSTITUTE: Even if we approved oil drilling off the coast today, it would have no effect on the price of oil and no effect on the price we're paying for gasoline for five or ten years.
WHITAKER: Democrats say oil companies haven't yet drilled on some 68 million acres offshore and on that they've already leased. It seems this beautiful coastline will be fueling some ugly politics in this election year. Russ?
MITCHELL: Bill Whitaker on a gorgeous beach in Santa Monica, California, thank you so much.
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
CBS ignores the fact that
June 18, 2008 - 22:23 ET by SchnikeysCBS ignores the fact that this is really a battle between liberals/RINOs and conservatives, not Democrats and Republicans. There's nothing bi-partisan about the Governator and libs opposing drilling. It's a nice, cheap method that is used by the media to attach the "bipartisanship" label to the drilling opponents when the reality is that there is no bipartisanship to be found (and it's not like it would matter if there was).
And it was a nice touch to for Mitchell to mention in his last line that the beach that Whitaker was standing on was "gorgeous". I'd rather have ten ugly beaches in the name of cheap gas than ten "gorgeous" ones. Priorities, priorities- they're what make the world go round.
------------------------------------------------------------
"It could be the answer to our age-old, philosophical question, 'Why are we here?' PLASTIC!"
Going back 40 years to push
June 18, 2008 - 22:23 ET by NonanonGoing back 40 years to push their point is pathetic, as if no improvements in the industry have been made.
I still say if liberals are so against using petroleum products, then they should cease anything remotely related to them to show us they are sincere in their 'concerns'. But we know they are not truly interested in 'saving the planet' but rather 'enslaving the people'. And it is astounding how many people are just gobbling up the lies these hypocrites spew on a daily basis.
It shows again the 'news' media are nothing more than the campaign agency for the Democrat party. Maybe the payments from the DNC is how many of these organizations stay in business.
Well darn, if there will
June 19, 2008 - 08:33 ET by kgWell darn, if there will not be a big improvement for 5 years, let's just not do it. And then 5 years down the road we will be a broken nation in deep recession. They did that when Kennedy said 20 years ago that it would be 12 years for a new refinery to come online so why bother. They should use this approach with global warming.
"Forget change, I want improvement!"
Yeap, this is the new Dem
June 19, 2008 - 12:12 ET by dscottYeap, this is the new Dem mantra of change: DO NOTHING and wait for the promise of alternative energy and large gains in efficiency whenever that is...
The Dems and their mouthpieces the MSM are making the case that it won't do anything for 5 years. http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/19/tribune-taps-experts-drilling-oil-florida/
The reason:
The sale of offshore drilling leases probably would not begin before 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017, the report says.
In other words, more government footdragging with libs digging their heels in all the way.
In 2005, hurricanes Katrina and Rita destroyed 113 oil platforms and damaged 457 pipelines near Louisiana, according to the Minerals Management Service, the federal agency that regulates offshore oil production. The agency reported 124 spills totaling 741,000 gallons of petroleum from offshore rigs, platforms and pipelines.
Oil companies say several thousand other drilling platforms survived Katrina and Rita without spills. They say that's because of the industry's improvements in technology and safety. Oil wells are shut down if a platform is toppled, and companies must have plans for containing spills.
The public needs to decide if waiting for the elusive promise of alternative energy and miracle thinking of energy saving advances will keep pace with the price of energy and population growth. The answer is: it won't keep pace with prices. Big hairy deal if your energy consumption is cut in half when the price of energy goes up more than 100%. This means you invested lots of money only to get you back to what you were spending before. The problem here is the price of oil doubled but there hasn't been any commensurate real world efficiency gain. On top of that is the population growth via immigration. Any oil we save through efficiency gains will be consumed by the new arrivals adding to the existing population. The electric industry is a prime example of this, even if every household could replace everything with energy saving appliances and bulbs, that one time conservation move does not reduce the consumption of electricity due to more people using electricity. When the electric car comes on line in mass numbers, the price of electricity will skyrocket just like gasoline. http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2008/04/24/agw-insanity-has-reached-new-heights-of-absurdity/
Economics 101 - In a shortage, the price doesn't not go up proportionally to demand, it goes up exponentially! Hence the price spikes. Large movements of price are an indication of a very tight supply and demand balance, and the converse is also true, as soon as you get the supply in excess of demand, competition sets back in to push down the price. The price drops like a stone because there is no demand to support the price. The greater the excess supply, the greater the competition and downward pressure on price.
What really needs to happen as an immediate short term reduction of demand is to penalize people like Al Gore for their excessive consumption that is so way beyond that of the average American household as to actually create the shortage or imbalance of supply and demand: http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2008/03/17/wasteful-lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous-a-challenge-to-al-gore/
What is needed is the Excess Energy Consumption Tax to force the 5% of the population who consumes as much energy as the rest of us 95% combined.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Forty years ago, we had
June 19, 2008 - 10:03 ET by pbanks7Forty years ago, we had rivers that burned. Must still be burning.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
I wonder just how many
June 18, 2008 - 22:28 ET by bigtimerI wonder just how many Californians have had it with the gas prices and EPA standards/taxes/regulations they can endure anymore from the leftists...they elect.
We'll know in about five months or less.
Btw...not just Calif....nationwide...I have been waiting for this to come to a head...let alone happen..it was bound to happen.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I remember my high school
June 18, 2008 - 22:32 ET by bigpapachemistry/physics teacher remarking one time.
"if they had put as much work into nuclear power as they did the space program... Everyone would have a nuclear reactor in their basement.."
"Alternative" energy sources are crap...
we NEED more oil, nuclear and coal sources....
Screw the MSM and the freaking enviro-hippies..
Green
June 18, 2008 - 22:49 ET by ScrapironHow green will the liberals be when they can no longer afford gas at all and can't heat they're homes in the winter even if they have a job? What about when they can no longer feed they're children due to the cost of food production. Folks, a few can be fed with horse drawn farm machinery but it will never leave the county/state where it is produced. How many have access to wood or coal to heat your home or cook the food. Along with the fuel problems will come shortages or lack of electricity. Greenies have prevented the construction of new power plants for so long the existing ones will fail at any time. I live in the boonies and don't worry about it because I can get by. How many of the millions residing in the cities can get by. Not many.
The liberal democrats are turning this into a third world country faster than you can watch.
Old, Retired and glad of it.
Scrap... Same here...it
June 18, 2008 - 23:02 ET by bigtimerScrap...
Same here...it is going to be interesting if people do not rise up and turn this around.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
"interesting"
June 19, 2008 - 09:08 ET by jpatchbt,
I nominate your "interesting" as the early favorite for Euphemism of the Year.
Yeah, I have a couple of
June 19, 2008 - 10:15 ET by pbanks7Yeah, I have a couple of single coworkers making $50k+ a year that don't mind the high price of gas. "But what about the single mom struggling to keep her kids fed?" Response: "Buh-buh-buh buh..."
Just like Wal-Mart. "What about the single mom that can afford to get $20 shoes for her kid that will outgrow them in three months?" Response: "You're a Republican." What a well-reasoned and artfully constructed argument. (I can't wait to use that one!)
Yup! The Repubs are for the rich, and the Dims are for the little guy.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
Only Domestic Oil?
June 18, 2008 - 22:50 ET by saw the light"Drilling opponents say reserves off California wouldn't last long. In fact, at current consumption rates, 21 million barrels a day, Americans would use up the estimated 18 billion barrels off the coasts all around the country in less than two and a half years"
Umm, that may be true (I didn't check the math), but does anyone in their right mind think that if a large amount of oil is found off the leftist coast, we will immediately end all imports and use that oil exclusively?
Two and a half years of oil at our current consumption rate most likely means that the oil will be pumped for decades, putting more oil on the market.
Now let me think back to Economics 101...supply rises, prices...
You are exactly right. Any
June 18, 2008 - 23:07 ET by RukusYou are exactly right. Any oil we drill for will reduce the amount we get from some unseemly sources, I.E. reduce demand from THEM. Reduced demand from THEM lowers prices ON TOP OF what we are supplying for ourselves! 1 million less from them plus the 1 million we get for ourselves is savings plus. And we have billions and billions of barrels just sitting there! Oh for all you libs/RINO's etc. Leased areas do NOT equal actual oil. Just because it's leased doesn't mean there is oil there, or enough to be finacially drilled or pumped. Search, explore, find, drill, drill, drill!
Deep breath, I'll be fine now.
BTW STL, did I tell you that you were right? Good post!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
You are correct saw the light
June 19, 2008 - 09:01 ET by danhatYes indeed, they frame the statement to make it sound like that is the only oil that we will use and the only oil that will be available. Of course, that is only the left coast. Factor in the Gulf and Alaska too.
A comprehensive plan that inludes oil, coal, nuclear and alternatives is needed. When the technology advances enough for alternatives to be cost effective - Gore's comsumption went up 10% last year and I am pretty sure that this was after the installation of solar panels and other moves considered to be "green." - then those alternatives will be commonplace. When will the MSM point all this out. We cannot just "wish" alternatives into the market place.
For the liberals, this is all tied to the hoax of AGW. So to liberals I ask this: In your world view, where oil is bad and will destory the environment and the planet, why is it ok to let other countries drill and develop? Are they all on the path to destruction? Since you claim alternatives are viable and available, why are you not calling for all oil producing countries to stop right now?
So you trot out a spill from 40 years ago. When is the last time the MSM did a story on an eco-disaster that came from an oil producing country?
The move to alternatives will be evolutionary. I read an intersting quote the other day- too bad I do not remember who said it - that went something like this: "...the stoneage ended but it wasn't because of a lack of stones."
The same will hold true for oil. People have been yelling about running out of oil since the late 1800's.
http://jlshaefer.blo...
http://www.infowars....
http://news.bbc.co.u...
http://findarticles....
A comprehensive plan that includes all available current sources of energy and continued development and exploration for cost effective and efficient alternatives.
What is so difficult about that?
Dear Libs,
Normally I don't root for the disease. But in your case I am willing to make and exception.
First three letter left off of CBS
June 18, 2008 - 23:01 ET by wdhorningThe first three letters were left off of their name, it really is OPECBS (OPEC-BS).
Ever ask the question: "Is someone paying CBS to keep OPEC rich with all their anti-domestic oil drilling rhetoric coming from CBS and others?"
Also, you might think CBS does care about poor people who are hurt the hardest by high gas prices, which, as Chuck Norris said, could be reduced with "Drill here. Drill now. Pay less."
Maybe its time to find out how many of the liberal execs at these libeal media outlets have huge stocks in foreign oil. Al Gore has Occidental Oil stocks for one.
Its also time to remind the nation that Democrats and the liberal press and the anti-human environmentalists are all to blame for high prices at the pump and higher food prices, and higher everthing else that you buy in a store.
The Real Story
June 18, 2008 - 23:11 ET by Agrarian-DecentralistWhitaker waits until the last paragraph of his piece to allude to a part of the REAL story---the fact that oil companies are already sitting on millions of acres leased from the federal government, offshore and onshore, and NOT drilling---no doubt to keep their assets nice and secure until the price goes even higher. This big Republican push is a diversionary tactic to put the Dems on the defensive when it is THEY who should be defensive for not pushing their oil company allies to use their leases---and their thousands of already approved drilling permits---to pull up some crude and put it on the market.
Imagine a restaurant where dozens of glasses of Coke are sitting on the counter, fizzing away. A customer walks in, sits down in front of the glasses, and starts griping about this lousy restaurant never has Cokes available when he and his friends want some! That's how ridiculous this Republican strategy is.
So your saying that
June 18, 2008 - 23:24 ET by RukusSo your saying that "leased" automatically means "oil"? Funny, I didn't see that guarantee. That's what exploration is for. If it isn't feasable to drill because it may be dry or not much to get then you don't do it. Leased is just that, leased! You lease land to see if it is worth drilling, if not, move on. Leased doesn't equate to oil. Stop talking around the facts. Explore until you find it then get it! You still have to lease to find it.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Some facts about the land leasing process for oil "exploration"
June 19, 2008 - 08:30 ET by PopularTechLeasing:
- 2.3% of the Outer Continental Shelf is under lease (WSJ)
- 0.46% of the Outer Continental Shelf is producing oil (WSJ)
- Due to an exploration ban, oil companies do not know the extent of the available resources (WSJ)
- Millions of acres lack oil or gas, which is why it's called "exploration" (WSJ)
- It often takes nearly a decade just to navigate the geography (WSJ)
- The long process includes environmental, regulatory review and multiple lawsuits from the green lobby (WSJ)
- Federal law stipulates that an oil company must sink a producing well within 10 years or lose the lease (WSJ)
Looks like the law already covers what the idiot Dems are talking about, pulling the lease if they do not start producing oil.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I see A-D the coward is
June 18, 2008 - 23:24 ET by Clear thinkerI see A-D the coward is back.
"Abstain from McCain"
I don't even know who
June 18, 2008 - 23:36 ET by RukusI don't even know who he/she is but you make an obvious point CT. I approve your comment.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Rukus... I even sent him
June 18, 2008 - 23:40 ET by Clear thinkerRukus...
I even sent him a PM earlier today. In it I called him a coward, and guess what kind of a response I got? Nada!
One thing I cannot stand is someone who comes here and throws out crap, then goes back into hiding so he deosn't have to defend himself. This is why I called him a coward!
"Abstain from McCain"
Sounds like a prairie DOG
June 18, 2008 - 23:44 ET by RukusSounds like a prairie DOG to me!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Rukus... Forgive me...
June 18, 2008 - 23:47 ET by Clear thinkerRukus...
Forgive me... but what does a prairie dog have to do with it. I must be missing something.
"Abstain from McCain"
Prairie Dogs duck and
June 18, 2008 - 23:59 ET by bigtimerPrairie Dogs duck and cover...after they throw shite out there...they stay stationed close to their holes....ready to retreat at all times..for survival.
I'd say gutless wonders like you know who..but at least they defend themselves after putting themselves out there...even if it is retreat in there own holes.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Thanks bt... Now I get
June 19, 2008 - 00:02 ET by Clear thinkerThanks bt...
Now I get it!
Dang I'm getting old.
"Abstain from McCain"
Naw CT
June 19, 2008 - 00:08 ET by shawn228Your as feisty as ever, which is a good thing, but it won't change the fact you will be one US dollar poorer come November. :-)
shawn... You got it all
June 19, 2008 - 00:12 ET by Clear thinkershawn...
You got it all wrong. Come Nov I will be $2 dollars richer. I also have the same bet with RD.
"Abstain from McCain"
LOL.
June 19, 2008 - 01:34 ET by R D HelmThe truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Actually, prairie dog is a
June 19, 2008 - 22:39 ET by RukusActually, prairie dog is a term when you have a, uh, urge to go to the restroom real bad and, uh, there is nowhere to go, things kinda try to pop out and you have to, uh, you get the picture.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Just go home
June 18, 2008 - 23:34 ET by contraryWhy do you even bother. Noone take you seriously here. Your rhetoric is like the DNC spin machine when an event happens to put the Democrats in a less-than-stellar light.
"Republicans always get a huge pass on the racist issue. Huck is just another example. Provided they don't start up with the N word, they seem able to pander directly to the racist vote."
-- Chuck Davis, intellectual heavyweight, bigot
AD...the hit and run troll
June 18, 2008 - 23:35 ET by bigtimerAD...the hit and run troll is back with his leftist BS.
Not going to waste my time with what I really want to post about all of this...
He's got the leftist talking points downt to a tee though.
Get's old.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I'll bet he doesn't live on
June 19, 2008 - 10:42 ET by pbanks7I'll bet he doesn't live on a farm. Agrarian indeed. If he lives on a farm he probably gets a nice fat gov't subsidy. Probably lives in a cozy suburban condo or apartment so he doesn't even have to do yard work. Me? I'm a capitalist pig.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
Are you nuts????
June 18, 2008 - 23:35 ET by bigpapaThe dems and RINOs haven't let them drill for what.... 20-30 years?????
Refineries and new power plants are blocked at every turn by environazies...
WE are an energy dependent society...
it's summer now,,
do you enjoy the benefits of air conditioning?
refrigeration makes it possible to keep meds safe and food safe for your comsumption... etc,, etc,, etc...
Excellent point Papa! I'm
June 18, 2008 - 23:43 ET by RukusExcellent point Papa! I'm enjoying the AC right now. And I ate yet another nice meal with no ill side effects. I work in a hospital and see all the good safe meds do. Not to mention the very advanced technology everywhere, that includes NO energy production disasters anywhere here. I hate we are losing all that to environazies left and, well, left! We got it so we should use it! Period!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
thanks
June 19, 2008 - 00:23 ET by bigpapaRukus,
Unfortunately so many people don't think about all the good things energy does for us...
And how literaly we could go back to the stone age without it...
I teach heating, air conditioning, ventilation and refrigeration at a technical school... so that part is always on my mind :)
And no,,, I really don't fit in with the lib teachers in the rest of the district... they don't appreciate teaching someone how to make a decent living.
Bless you! I mean
June 19, 2008 - 22:41 ET by RukusBless you! I mean it.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Attention Deficit guy (that's you, AD)
June 18, 2008 - 23:46 ET by R D HelmAt this point, I would normaly advise you to seek a refund for your educational pursuits, as it has become painfully apparent that you were short-changed in a very big way.
However, as it is quite clear that you were essentially ripped-off, and further apparent that you attended government schools all the way through, which means there was no tuition paid out-of-pocket, I guess your only hope is a local tax refund. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD... "Attention Deficit "
June 18, 2008 - 23:50 ET by Clear thinkerRD...
"Attention Deficit " for A-D is perfect.
I like it.
"Abstain from McCain"
That's a big Mega-Ditto
June 18, 2008 - 23:57 ET by RukusThat's a big Mega-Ditto CT!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Ruck...I too join the
June 19, 2008 - 00:06 ET by bigtimerRuck...I too join the sentiments here.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Ct, Attention Deficit guy is rapidly becoming...
June 19, 2008 - 00:05 ET by R D Helm...a colossal bore.
As my dear friend Blonde has pointed out repeatedly all across these pages, we need a better class of troll here. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
I may be new at this
June 19, 2008 - 00:07 ET by RukusI may be new at this but:
"As my dear friend Blonde has pointed out repeatedly all across these pages, we need a better class of troll here. :-)"
Trolls have class?? I HATE being new at this! Teach me wise ones.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
LOL-Sorry, Ruk, but you are going to have to figure this one out
June 19, 2008 - 01:31 ET by R D Helm...all on your own. :-)
And yeah, trolls have no class.
Hell, even the classes they take at DKOS and DU don't help them much here.
After all, either one is born with linear logic or not. It is not something that can be taught in a class.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD... I actually respect
June 19, 2008 - 00:09 ET by Clear thinkerRD...
I actually respect a liberal that comes here with their talking points and is willing to stick around for the blowback. But these hit and runners are nothing more, or less, than cowards. They don't stick around because they know they can't logically argue their points. As long as a Democrat, or a leftist Hollywood hero says it's so, then by God it's so, and there is no need for debate.
"Abstain from McCain"
Respect
June 19, 2008 - 00:35 ET by shawn228I never run, but all I ever get is homesexual jokes from you like, like i'm in love with fs. Well come o think of it, I do watch Sex and the City and enjoy chick flicks. Damn it, now I have to do some self evaluation. Thanks a lot Clear Thinker!!
RD
June 19, 2008 - 00:09 ET by RESTLESS 1Colossal bore is right. Between AD and Professor Twit redux, I am getting a major headache. They have brought nothing new, just the same B.S. they always do.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
R1, can't wait for the next encounter between Perf. Twaddle...
June 19, 2008 - 01:38 ET by R D Helm...and Noel.
I have a six-pack of premium suds stashed in the fridge just for the occasion!
:-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
A-D, We imagine a world without Commies
June 19, 2008 - 00:09 ET by PSPCplImagine a world where Communists are extinct: no one will be griping about anything important.
A Democrat controlled Congress saw to it that oil companies were not allowed to drill in American territories. If memory serves, it was the Dems who recently forbade any drilling in ANWR. The Dems are controlled by their Commie friends using the environmental movement as cover. There are those of us who haven't forgotten Pol Pot and what he did trying to return his country to an Agrarian Paradise.
A-D, it is very apparant that you weren't paying attention during your Econ 101 class. We live in, for the most part, a capatalistic society (as much as you don't like it). That means that the players involved try to maximize their income as much as is possible. That means that the oil company management would have been sacked, tarred and feathered for not sellling every barrel they had when the price hit 100 dollars. If you think they are making obscene profits now, what does it mean to thier costs when they don't have to pay for oil coming from overseas? Do you think it makes economic sense to pay for oil that costs 90 dollars to transport to the USA when you get it here for half that?
"If you don't know what your are talking about, shut up and listen. You may actually learn something and people may not know for sure that you are the Village Idiot." My dad's advice to me when I attempted to "teach him how to suck eggs".
Great line from your dad.
June 19, 2008 - 00:12 ET by RESTLESS 1I am definitely using his advice on my kids when the time comes. LOL.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Too Bad A-D wasn't listening
June 19, 2008 - 00:17 ET by PSPCplYou know that A-D got similiar advice from his dad. Every know-it-all male child does at some point. It's too bad that A-D and others like him never took it to heart.
PSP... Boy oh boy have
June 19, 2008 - 00:21 ET by bigtimerPSP...
Boy oh boy have you got that right.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Or maybe they're not
June 19, 2008 - 01:41 ET by ckc1227Or maybe they're not drilling because there's no oil there. But what the hell do the industry experts know compared to the mental giants of Congress? Clearly Congress knows more about drilling and how to run an oil company than the people in the business. Hell, if Gore can fool the world into believing he knows what the hell he's talking about when it comes to climate science, it's not much of a stretch to believe that Pelosi and company are experts on the oil business.
Now, have another sip of kool aid, idiot, and make sure you wash yor head after you pull it out of your ass, cuz you're stinkin' up the joint.
AD is still complaining about this?
June 19, 2008 - 03:42 ET by PopularTechSo you are complaining about oil companies effectively giving the Federal Government money for free? Those leases are to protect current known fields. They prevent competitors from setting up shop next to a producing field, they do not sit on "new" reserves. These leases are essentially a free tax on the oil companies, leave it to liberals to complain about getting money for free.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
The tired old "unused leases" argument ...
June 19, 2008 - 09:29 ET by EllisWyattHugh Hewitt has the best response I've seen to this bogus argument about oil companies not using their leases:
If you're not outraged at the media, you haven't been paying attention.
1.) Simply holding a
June 19, 2008 - 16:06 ET by BD1.) Simply holding a "Lease" does not guarantee there is petroleum under it. Exploration usually finds NOHTING in these millions of acres because they a provided where oil is uncommon.
2.) There is no point in waiting for higher costs to produce more. Therefore it will not happen. I take it you produce your widgets and simply place them on the shelves, waiting for the price of widgets to go higher? Foolishness of the first order
3.) Forcing the Oil Companies to use their leases? Since the oil companies are not supposedly usingtheir leases, you will not mind if we provide them ANWAR, California Coast. Florida Coast, and Yosemite since they will obviously not use those leases as well and simply wait for the costs to go higher. Hahahahahahahahaha!. Idiots....
Twisted logic
June 18, 2008 - 23:17 ET by nkviking75Using the same logic, we'd have shut down Ford after the first Model T fatality.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Just go home
June 18, 2008 - 23:34 ET by contrarydeleted
SEVERIN BORENSTEIN,
June 19, 2008 - 00:08 ET by MidAmericaSEVERIN BORENSTEIN, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA ENERGY INSTITUTE: Even if we approved oil drilling off the coast today, it would have no effect on the price of oil and no effect on the price we're paying for gasoline for five or ten years.
BUT!.... Every barrel of US oil that is pumped means jobs for US workers and that helps all of us even if the price of gas does not drop one cent. Everybody who is against US drilling is a proponant of exporting US jobs and wealth to other countries.
MA...And we get that
June 19, 2008 - 00:15 ET by Clear thinkerMA...
And we get that much closer to NOT relying on foriegn countries for our energy needs.
I see it as a national security issue.
"Abstain from McCain"
We actually have no
June 19, 2008 - 00:21 ET by MidAmericaWe actually have no reason to be reliant on foreign energy. We could be awash in energy. There's plenty of blame to go around for almost everyone, politicians, environmentalists, energy companies, and John Q. Public.
MA... "We actually have
June 19, 2008 - 00:24 ET by Clear thinkerMA...
"We actually have no reason to be reliant on foreign energy."
But we are. So it's time to change that.
Why do you blame the public?
"Abstain from McCain"
Foremost because we
June 19, 2008 - 00:31 ET by MidAmericaForemost because we have not held our politicians feet to the fire and secondly half of the public has been supporting the democrats who are primarily responsible for the situation we are in.
Ok. I was just
June 19, 2008 - 00:33 ET by Clear thinkerOk.
I was just curious.
"Abstain from McCain"
MA.. Nope..Just congress
June 19, 2008 - 00:25 ET by bigtimerMA..
Nope..Just congress for the last thirty years or more.
You can include these other critters....but when it comes down to the bottom of the barrel..it is CONGRESS!
RINOs included.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
True, congress is the hub
June 19, 2008 - 00:43 ET by MidAmericaTrue, congress is the hub but there are many spokes. One of the strongest spokes is the anti-capitalist wing of the democrat party that uses environmentalism as it's cover. What started out as an effort to stop roadside trash in the 1970's is now a muti-headed hydra that threatens Western civilization as surely as any atomic weapon.
Once again I have to fall
June 19, 2008 - 00:46 ET by Clear thinkerOnce again I have to fall back on the enemies playbook...
http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Sadly, the damn plan is working!
"Abstain from McCain"
36. Infiltrate and gain
June 19, 2008 - 11:13 ET by pbanks736. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
So they admit that they already controlled some unions back in 1963.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
MA...I agree."Never
June 19, 2008 - 00:50 ET by bigtimerMA...
I agree.
<edit> Ct...I do with you too! For sure..It has been the plan Stan...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Even the Unions get this one right
June 19, 2008 - 00:24 ET by PSPCplI have a buddy who is in the MA Laborers and he said that they supported ANWR drilling and other similiar efforts because it would have meant more good jobs in America.
He said that the tree huggers out weigh the unions on this issue. But if you haven't noticed, the MSM will not present their stance on this issue to the public. Why? It would mean that a traditional ally of the Dems is in total disagreement with their stance on this issue and would possibly push their unemployed members to (HORRORS!) vote for the Republicans (who have finally showed some spine on this issue).
PSP... Yep...I remember
June 19, 2008 - 00:34 ET by bigtimerPSP...
Yep...I remember it well..the Unions were behind opening up ANWR and behind the bill in the Senate in 05 that McCain stopped on our side of the aisle with Cantwell on the other side...we lost by ONE vote..the jobs were estimated if memory serves me correct at two million over time with all people that were or would be connected in this massive under-taking...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Actually,
June 19, 2008 - 00:20 ET by RESTLESS 1I don't buy what Borenstein is selling at all. If restrictions were lifted, and the countries we import oil from saw that their cash cow was moving on to it's own pasture, I think you would see oil production spike mighty quickly. I don't know if that is true or not, but I would love to see the rigs start spinging up and have my theory tested.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Oooh! That is an excellent
June 19, 2008 - 00:21 ET by RukusOooh! That is an excellent point! Wish I had thougt of it! That goes against their talking points of the so-called jobless rate. You are SO spot on! More drilling, more jobs, less out-sourced jobs. Genious!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Drill, drill, drill--but--
June 19, 2008 - 00:42 ET by milootooleDrill, drill, drill--but--please, not anywhere near the Kennedy compound. We hold the ability to be a totally self-sufficient nation and yet we are held in ridicule and contempt by many in the world. A relatively small number of people have gotten our Congress to restrict our ability to be energy independent. It would be nice if someone would perform a study to see how many of the "no drilling" politicians are "don't use coal or shale oil" politicians.
The greatness of America is being stifled by a few thousand people (greenies) and a few hundred others (politicians)! What a shame.
35 Years and we have learned nothing
June 19, 2008 - 00:53 ET by Cho Yi FanI listened to Ford,Carter Reagan,Bush,Clinton and Bush talk about ending dependence on foreign oil.They didnt get er done.Since the late 70's the enviornmental fringe has handcuffed this country with their wailing about no new refineries,no nuclear power,and no domestic exploration.Today we are paying the price for their rant.
It's time to decide,do we want energy independence or is that just a campaign slogan.No matter how unpopular McCain is he has made some suggestions about increasing domestic production. Obama wants to talk about change and has proposed nothing except pie ine the sky BS about developing alterante sources of energy.It may only be 18 billion barrels but its 2+ years of not buying Middle East oil. .Its 2+ years of not funding terrorists.We need to start drilling now.
Cho... Yep... I feel so
June 19, 2008 - 00:57 ET by bigtimerCho...
Yep...
I feel so lucky McCain has flip-flopped on this issue...before it is over ANWR is going to be OK with him too.
Oh well...you do what you got to do.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt... You know, maybe we
June 19, 2008 - 01:05 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
You know, maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way. What if a bunch of us started an ethanol co-op. We find something other than corn to make legal whiskey and we get permits to do this in our backyards. If you can show that your still is only for the making of fuel, permits are easy to get. Anyway, we come up with a business plan and make some money off this problem.
After all, it is the American way!
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct... I raise my glass to
June 19, 2008 - 01:08 ET by bigtimerCt...
I raise my glass to you...
....Cheers!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Cheers! (gulp,
June 19, 2008 - 01:11 ET by Clear thinkerCheers!
(gulp, gulp)
"Abstain from McCain"
excuse me for butting in
June 19, 2008 - 01:11 ET by MidAmericaexcuse me for butting in but are you refering to this type of operation? Anything you can ferment or has sugar in it can be used to make alcohol.
MA... You bet! "Abstain
June 19, 2008 - 01:13 ET by Clear thinkerMA...
You bet!
"Abstain from McCain"
I thought that was the
June 19, 2008 - 01:14 ET by RukusI thought that was the point, if Obamapromter gets in then we'll all need it! Cheers!
'"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Bigtimer glad you feel so
June 19, 2008 - 01:06 ET by Cho Yi FanI never said that I was a McCain supporter or that I'd vote for the man. I for the most part detest his positions.I am for new technology but thats gonna take years.Obama's trying to spin the price of energy into some etherial plan for change. In the end the price at the pump is all that matters to most of us.
I could care less about who flip flops on energy so long as we get energy independent.
By the way,I'm glad that you feel lucky ...may that streak continue into tomorrow.
Cho... Don't get me
June 19, 2008 - 01:14 ET by bigtimerCho...
Don't get me wrong...I agree...
Believe me I have been banging my head against the wall for years now with Congress ect...and the people that keep voting these idiots in...
Btw...I hope to God we can trust McCain...I for one do not...never will...but I suppose he is better than the other POS we have against us.
Drill Often!...Drill Everywhere!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Bigtimer sorry I misunderstood
June 19, 2008 - 02:43 ET by Cho Yi FanBigtimer sorry I misunderstood. I am a bit touchy about this energy discussion. We owe this mess to several sessions of Congress and several Presidents who were afraid to go against rabid enviornuts.For decades,these folks have refused to make it easy to build refineries and drill for oil domestically because some endangered moth needed to be protected. I am sick of political rhetoric. I want to see some action on getting the US energy independent.I am getting frustrated hearing politicians tell me all the reasons why we can't.
How long will we be lead by stupid people?
And how close are we to
June 19, 2008 - 01:04 ET by RukusAnd how close are we to having real "alternative fuels"? Oil and gas are available right now! This BS about drilling will not change prices for 5 to 10 years is total BS! As soon as the foreign markets see we are willing to produce our own fuel they will drop prices in order to sway us into buying their product. Screw them! Start now and they will drop prices fast! Shale oil will be a good start as it will take very little time to get it producing. I am all about alternative, renewable sources, but in the mean time, drill, drill, drill, dammit! Talk means nothing right now, actions mean everything! Drill!!!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
What they should have said in the soundbite
June 19, 2008 - 01:13 ET by jefflebowskiWhat he said, "“from Republican Governor Schwarzenegger to local environmentalists, California is largely green.” What he should have said: California is mostly communist and stupid. Ahnold is a RINO and an idiot. The MSM is hell-bent on destroying the US.
If someone gave me California, I would pay them to take it back.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Amen Brother, Amen. "Nuke
June 19, 2008 - 01:17 ET by RukusAmen Brother, Amen.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
G'nigh brothers ans sisters
June 19, 2008 - 01:29 ET by RukusI'm off to horizontel zzz land, gotta get up an do that free enterprise thing in the AM. Take care all, that goes for the trolls too. Have a blessed night!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
You too Ruk. "Never
June 19, 2008 - 01:36 ET by bigtimerYou too Ruk.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Just FYI
June 19, 2008 - 02:29 ET by gordonBefore any more liberal whining about Evil Big Oil making obscene profits shows up, consider this.
Exxon-Mobil makes about 10% profit
Google makes about 30% profit
Microsoft makes about 30% profit
OK, libs....lets sue Big Google before they suck up all the money in the United States!!! I am so fed up with idiots. Jeez.
Alan Keyes has been a long-time supporter of ...
June 19, 2008 - 05:19 ET by savvyconsumer7Alan is a great Reagan-Conservative and has long supported drilling in ANWAR. He favors making energy independence a national goal, like going to the moon was in the 1960's. Keyes favors exploring a myriad of options and technologies for the benefit of the American people. Alan Keyes says,
Conference Call June 3rd Question 3
Alan Keyes for President 2008, Independent Candidate
America's Independent Party National Committee
www.SelfGovernment.US
Wow 40 years ago, if the
June 19, 2008 - 06:07 ET by USA4freedomWow 40 years ago, if the Republicans hand any brains (I know..) they would use this very point.
40 years ago.. the price of gas was .35 cents a gal.
Things change, like how safe for the environment that the oil rigs have become.
AS WELL AS THE PRICE OF GAS GOING UP ABOUT $4.00!!!
Ronald Reagan, 1962: I did not leave the Democratic party, the party left me.
Insert: your name, 2008, and the Republican party.
Romney / Jendil 2012 (if,we survive)
Part of it is higher oil prices
June 19, 2008 - 07:58 ET by sarcasmoBut this site says $0.35 in 1967 would buy $2.21 in 2007, so inflation's part of the gas price problem, too.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Other side
June 19, 2008 - 07:18 ET by ReaverI'm seeing people refuting the Dem talking point about "the leases are out there" by saying that leases don't equal oil, which is true, but don't forget the other half of the problem. The oil companies are dogged by the enviros every step of the way. They take them to court to try to stop the lease sales, stop the exploration, stop the drilling and then stop the pumping. It's a running battle against these anti-development creeps.
Also, our Congress has been asleep at the switch
June 19, 2008 - 08:41 ET by ChiefE9Carter, nuclear Navy officer who I voted for was for alternative energy and the Congress was controlled by Congress for 40 years up to 1992. What happened? Where is our alternative energy?
Also, our Congress wants us to drive move economical vehicles and has demanded auto companies build more economical vehicles but read what they drive.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/05/what-do-members-of-congress-drive.php
Something else to chew on...
June 19, 2008 - 08:48 ET by HermanoIt is interesting to me that these idio... er, so-called economic experts are failing to mention is that oil prices are rising to some extent because of the falling dollar, which is in part due to the US sending all its wealth overseas. It is a nice little vicious circle - oil goes up - more money leaves the US - oil goes up again. If we start drilling - and possibly exporting oil - the dollar will rebound.
Ooey, gooey oil seeps on the seafloor
June 19, 2008 - 08:55 ET by jdhawkIn this article, http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0422/p18s03-hfks.html, it states that off the shores of Santa Barbara, "Every day, about 11 tons of oil droplets and oil-coated gas bubbles leak out of small holes or fissures in the seafloor."
It turns out the native indians of the area were getting more use from the oil seepage than modern Californians except to use as a whipping boy for environmental wack jobs. Here, the article describes, " For generations, the Chumash, Yokuts, and other Indian tribes had used asphaltum (a natural tar that oozes from oil seeps) to help start fires and waterproof roofs, baskets, and canoes."
And, here is something that you will NEVER get in a sound bite from the drive by media. It turns out that sea life has actually adapted and is thriving on the oil from these seeps.
"Bottom-dwelling sea creatures have also adapted to the oil seeps. During a dive last year in a minisubmarine called Alvin, scientists saw a giant mound of tar near a seep. It was 262 feet across and 66 feet tall! It was overgrown with urchins and anemones and encircled by schools of fish.
Specialized bacteria that "eat" the oil lived nearby in slimy white mats. Clams, barnacles, and starfish that are specially adapted to survive near oil seeps thrived on the tar mountain. The scientists in Alvin had never seen anything like it. They said that the mound was a new kind of seafloor feature and that it probably started growing after an earthquake 23,000 years ago."
-->-->
Those scientists
June 19, 2008 - 09:37 ET by FoolicanThose scientists must have been paid off by Big Oil*.
(Big Oil was used as a general moniker in this sentence, as Exxon-Mobil is currently pulling out of the oil market in the United States and thus has no association with the national money machine that is Big Oil.)
JD, Thank you for mentioning
June 19, 2008 - 11:21 ET by HermanoJD, Thank you for mentioning this. A year or two after the Exxon Valdez incident, fisherment reported much larger hauls. The earth created oil and the earth has ways of working with and even thriving from it.
Well
June 19, 2008 - 09:07 ET by 10ksnookerDrill here, drill now, pay less -- Change you can belive in.
What did you expect the drive-by parrots to do?
You fear what you don't know
June 19, 2008 - 09:40 ET by Foolican"Whitaker used California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to illustrate “bipartisan” opposition as he reminded viewers of a spill nearly 40 years ago: “In
California, which suffered a devastating oil spill from a rig off Santa
Barbara in 1969, opposition to offshore drilling is bipartisan.”"
In formal argument, that type of rhetorical fallacy is known as "poisoning the well" (no pun intended). It's the same argument used against nuclear power plants via Chernobyl, or against hydrogen power via Hindenburg.
acres not drilled
June 19, 2008 - 10:46 ET by ledgerhedgerthey are sitting on millions of acres because the permitting stops them from drilling even after they get the lease.
The Facts about Gas Prices
June 19, 2008 - 11:37 ET by MSD6The average national U.S. price for gasoline has increased by $1.95 per gallon* since the Democrats took control of both houses of congress (week of 1/21/07). That's an 91.5% increase in less than 17 months ($2.13 to $4.08). Almost Double!!!! So much for the Democrats campaign promise to lower the price of oil and gas once elected. They lied big-time to the American Public just to get elected. The Democrats have no plan. Here is a typical Liberal Voter:
Source - www.GasBuddy.com
Please copy an paste and send this fact to everyone in your address book. Please.
imo
June 19, 2008 - 12:20 ET by mbuelI think it's intentional... they are trying to destroy our country.
this insanity
June 19, 2008 - 12:19 ET by mbueldrives me absolutely nuts, A local liberal talk show host (Ken Schram) last night stated, "We cannot drill our way out of this..... We need to STOP using oil!"
INSANE. There is no replacement for oil in the works:
1) We could go nuclear and use the side effect of steam power to produce hydrogen to run fuel cells... but cheap and reliable hydrogen delivery is at least 40 - 50 years away. Fuel cells are still not reliable. (they last at most 12,000 miles) Not to mention that the green-nuts won't let us build nuke plants!
2) Hydro power is off limits as well because of insane greens. So the two most effective and most clean alternatives for oil energy are off limits...
Where does that leave us?
Coal? can't use that it's "dirty"....
Wind? Not even the green-nuts want them in their back yard. And they aren't even a good replacement anyways... (like solar as well.)
So we have no viable alternatives in the near tearm because of the suicidal greens, and now they are telling us to give up oil as well? SCREW THEM.
Come this November the election is going to be determined by the politician with the most sane energy solutions (including DRILLING!!!) So far that's McCain.
(Obama had no problem with our gas prices, he just wishes they would've risen slower....)
Well put, mbuel.
June 19, 2008 - 12:29 ET by MassConservAnd as for "Obama had no problem with our gas prices, he just wishes they would've risen slower", I think the term he used was "controlled growth." Obviously a code phrase for government regulated price increases.
Yeah, since the government is so efficient and does such a wonderful job of regulating things as it is...
yeap
June 19, 2008 - 14:57 ET by mbuelYeah, did you hear the democrat from New York that said the government should take control of the refineries to control how much gas is distributed?
I didn't hear the actual
June 19, 2008 - 15:08 ET by MassConservI didn't hear the actual clip, but I believe RESTLESS 1 has the quote in his tagline; stumbles, self-corrections and all.
Priceless and scary all at the same time.
Mass Conserv
June 19, 2008 - 19:26 ET by RESTLESS 1Here you go. Pay special attention to what I call her "oh sh!t" moment at the word "social...uh uh." She knew she stepped in it.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Thanks, R1.
June 20, 2008 - 08:40 ET by MassConservThanks, R1.
dilithium crystals and flying cars
June 19, 2008 - 12:59 ET by wizardjrAny day now we'll have dilithium crystals and flying cars. It's all true. I saw it on TV. It must be true.
We've got wind turbines. Never mind those folks in Texas that went dark when the "always there" wind stopped. We've got solar. Never mind that it'll take the entire states of New Mexico and Arizona to hold enough solar panels or mirrors to supply what five or six hundred acres of conventional power plants does. Oh yeah, then there's the little issue of sun down.
I'll place serious money that we'll see dilithium crystals before all this alternative energy crapola pays off.
Windfall for California
June 19, 2008 - 13:39 ET by TjexciteCalifornia could be out of debt and into surplus. Only if they drill and every ounce of oil is taxed that goes right into the general income for the goventment. For some reason this would not work. Lets just pay the Saudis the royalties on their oil.
Actually TJ,
June 19, 2008 - 19:41 ET by RESTLESS 1Bill Bennett had the U.S. Secretary of the Interior, Dirk Kempthorne on this morning, and he did mention that offshore drilling shows less spillage than there is natural seapage from the sea floor.
Edit: It may not be that far fetched.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008