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ABC Brings Up 'I Can See Russia from My Backyard' in Palin Interview

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Tuesday’s World News with Charles Gibson showed clips of an interview between Barbara Walters and Sarah Palin which will air on Friday’s 20/20. At one point, Walters seemed to allude to the fact that there is a misconception that Palin once claimed that “I can see Russia from my house,” during the 2008 campaign, as evidence of her foreign policy experience. But Walters did not clearly identify those words as part of the famous Saturday Night Live skit as they were uttered by Tina Fey playing Palin to parody what the Alaska governor had actually said in an interview with Gibson from September 2008. Walters:

On the business of “I can see Russia from my backyard,” what you did say to Charlie Gibson was that there were places in Alaska where one could see Russia. Do you still feel that Alaska’s proximity to Russia from whatever place you can see it, is significant foreign policy experience?

As Gibson and Palin discussed the conflict between Russia and Georgia, Gibson had asked last year, "What insight into Russian actions particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?"

Palin responded: "They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

The clip on Tuesday which showed Walters bringing up this issue could have been more direct in stating clearly to viewers that the real Palin never stated that “I can see Russia from my house,” or as Walters misquoted the SNL line, “I can see Russia from my backyard.” There is evidence that many voters attribute the SNL line to the real Palin, so it would have been appropriate for the former 20/20 anchor to have said something along the lines of, “Because of the infamous SNL skit, there is a misconception that you once claimed that you had foreign policy experience because could see Russia from your house."

Conservative filmmaker John Ziegler has previously demonstrated that some voters mistakenly believe that Palin actually said the words from the Saturday Night Live skit, as shown by his interviews with some Obama voters last year.

Below is a clip of the relevant portion of the Walters interview as it was shown on Tuesday’s World News with Charles Gibson on ABC, followed by a transcript of the relevant portion of the September 11, 2008, World News:

#From the Tuesday, November 17, 2008, World News: 

BARBARA WALTERS: On the business of “I can see Russia from my backyard,” what you did say to Charlie Gibson was that there were places in Alaska where one could see Russia. Do you still feel that Alaska’s proximity to Russia from whatever place you can see it, is significant foreign policy experience?

SARAH PALIN: Very significant, and we are a gatekeeper for the continent, so far national security reasons, and for energy independence and resource development reasons, Alaska should be recognized for strategic location on the globe.

#From the Thursday, September 11, 2008, World News: 

CHARLES GIBSON: Let me ask you about specific national security situations. Let's start, because we are near Russia. Let's start with Russia and Georgia. The administration has said, we've got to maintain the territorial integrity of Georgia. Do you believe the United States should try to restore Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

SARAH PALIN: First off, we're going to continue good relations with Saakashvili there. I was able to speak with him the other day and giving him my commitment, as John McCain's running mate, that we will be committed to Georgia. And we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable. And we have to keep...

GIBSON: You believe unprovoked?

PALIN: I do believe unprovoked. And we have got to keep our eyes on Russia. Under the leadership there.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.

GIBSON: You in favor of putting Georgia and Ukraine into NATO?

PALIN: Ukraine, definitely, yes. Yes, and Georgia. Putin thinks otherwise. Obviously he thinks otherwise.

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean that is the agreement. When you are a NATO ally, is, if another country is attacked, you are going to be expected to be called upon and help.

—Brad Wilmouth is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.

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If the weather permits yeah you can see Russia from Alaska...but maybe not from her house. They are neighbors.

Tina Fey

Palin is the  supposed idiot. Yet here is  an MSMer  - Walters - who confused a Tina Fey bit with what Palin really said in an interview.

Palin remarked that from the top of Little Diomede you can see Big Diomode which is part of Russia.

So who is the idiot?

Read more closely. 

Read more closely.  Walters didn't confuse the Tina Fey bit.  To her credit, she corrected the misperception, and allowed Palin to elaborate on the issue. 

Jer

Snarky

I disagree.  I thought Walters was being snarky.  As Brad said:

"The clip on Tuesday which showed Walters bringing up this issue could have been more direct in stating clearly to viewers that the real Palin never stated"

The media purposfully gave the public the impression that Palin had said "I can see Russia ... "   A disgraceful act.

Well, allanf...I guess

Well, allanf...I guess we'll just continue to disagree.

It's hard to believe anyone could read--or listen to--Walters' words ["What you did say...."] and conclude anything other than she was correcting the erroneous belief that Palin had said she could see Russia from her property.  And if Palin wished to further clarify, she certainly was provided the opening to do so.  In this day and age, that's a pretty fair shake from the media for a political interviewee.

Jer

I don't think so.  Walters

I don't think so.  Walters said, "On the business of 'I can see Russia from my backyard,' what you did
say to Charlie Gibson was that there were places in Alaska where one
could see Russia. Do you still feel that Alaska’s proximity to Russia
from whatever place you can see it, is significant foreign policy
experience?"

So she did seem to clarify with the phrase "what you did say...", but then she turns right around and reintroduces the idea that there is some confusion by using the phrase "from whatever place you can see it", as though Palin has made conflicting statements about where in Alaska you can see Russia.  Hardly a clear correction. 

Then she goes on "allowing Palin to elaborate", in your words, with the question starting "Do you still..." as though there should be some reason now for Palin to reverse her earlier statement (perhaps because it was obviously so foolish). 

With this kind of help from journalists, who needs political opponents?

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

I think you're

I think you're overanalyzing, HK, but I won't belabor the point any further.  Mine was a defense of Walters, and not a criticism of Palin--whom I've never criticized by the way.  I'm not convinced she'll be a viable presidential candidate in 2012, but I like her and think she has been seriously underestimated.

Jer

But But But

But liberals foam at the mouth because Michelle Obama was misquoted in her 'first time' speech.  According to hard liners in liberal loonie camp, Michelle Actually said, and I quote...'For the first time in my adult life I am truly proud of my country...'.  HOWEVER ....they are beside themselves because when conservatives play it back...some how the word TRULY is omitted.  Apparently this TOTALLY changes the context in which she was expressing her pride in her country finally coming to its senses ONLY when her husband became a candidate.  Don't get it twist...leave that word TRULY out and it's all messed up.  This, people, is how the liberal mind misfires on a continual basis.

And Biden got a "by"

During his interview by Katie "The Perky One" Couric, Joe Biden insisted that on the night of the big stock market crash in 1929, President Franklin D. Roosevelt appeared on television to explain the situation to the American people.   

Perky Katie didn't even raise on eyebrow.  But she asked Palin what newspapers she reads everyday.

What Makes you Think The Perky One

knew the difference.

Sur FREAKING prise!!

Of course ABC is just being ABC..

Drive-by Media alert:  Have you seen Helen Thomas driving the VW van and Katie Couric on the guns?  Click here, it's funny! http://thedailyzing.com/469/millions-hit-by-plague-worse-than-swine-flu/

Now I know it's another

Now I know it's another day--the dailyWhorezing has appeared. 

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

Here we go again!

Will this assanine slap against Palin ever end?

 She said to Charlie Gibson: "And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."  That is fact.  It is not open to debate.

Several days later, the wits at Saturday Night Live got uproarious laughs and snickers when Tina Fey, impersonating Palin, said, "And I can see Russia from my house!"  This line was created by the writers at SNL.  Palin never actually said it.

It's pathetic how a "comedy" sketch from a second-rate late night comedy show comes to be taken as fact in the MSM.  The MSM's worst enemy has to be official transcripts and tape from their own interviews.  But they will continue to spin, exaggerate, and do whatever they can to destroy this woman.

For someone who apparently is an intellectual lightweight and has no future in federal politics, the Lefties sure do have their knickers in a knot over her.

Imus ask Levin about the President's foreign trip

Media Matters Goes For The TWOFER
Imus And Levin Exposed Criticizing Obama…

Chuckling, all he needs is a microphone.

http://imustimes.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/imus-relevant-once-again/

I was watching this morning this is a good interview of Levin.

Levin: He was visiting all the regimes he likes GRIN.

 

 

This is good Laree

Very funny, thanks

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

THE SPEW...

 Walters is highly overrated & does not deserve her status as a media bigshot. She is a fairly shallow interviewer who really is not too sharp on the issues.

Plus, she lost much of her crediblity to judge others by being the "other woman" in a marriage when she was banging then Sen.Edward Brooke. Nice, this ex-skank is trying to take down a woman in Palin who seems to take her marriage seriously. Barbara needs to stay on her henfest "The View", rather then stray onto real journalism.

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

And then there is the unedited Gibson/Palin interview on Georgia

Compliments of Mark Levin (that which is in bold here, was edited out of the televised interview - the audience had not a clue as to the actual conversation):

GIBSON: Let me ask you about some specific national security situations.

PALIN: Sure.

GIBSON: Let’s start, because we are near Russia, let’s start with Russia and Georgia. The administration has said we’ve got to maintain the territorial integrity of Georgia. Do you believe the United States should try to restore Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

PALIN: First off, we’re going to continue good relations with Saakashvili there. I was able to speak with him the other day and giving him my commitment, as John McCain’s running mate, that we will be committed to Georgia. And we’ve got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable and we have to keep…

GIBSON: You believe unprovoked.

PALIN: I do believe unprovoked and we have got to keep our eyes on Russia, under the leadership there. I think it was unfortunate. That manifestation that we saw with that invasion of Georgia shows us some steps backwards that Russia has recently taken away from the race toward a more democratic nation with democratic ideals. That’s why we have to keep an eye on Russia. And, Charlie, you’re in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors. We need to have a good relationship with them. They’re very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.  

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they’re doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I’m giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it’s in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.  

We also see from Palin's following remark, which was also edited out, that she is far from some sort of latter day Cold Warrior which the edited interview made her seem to be:

We cannot repeat the Cold War. We are thankful that, under Reagan, we won the Cold War, without a shot fired, also. We’ve learned lessons from that in our relationship with Russia, previously the Soviet Union. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it’s in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.

Palin's extended remarks about defending our NATO allies were edited out to make it seem that she was ready to go to war with Russia. 

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn’t we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you’re going to be expected to be called upon and help. But NATO, I think, should include Ukraine, definitely, at this point and I think that we need to — especially with new leadership coming in on January 20, being sworn on, on either ticket, we have got to make sure that we strengthen our allies, our ties with each one of those NATO members. We have got to make sure that that is the group that can be counted upon to defend one another in a very dangerous world today.

GIBSON: And you think it would be worth it to the United States, Georgia is worth it to the United States to go to war if Russia were to invade.

PALIN: What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are if a larger power is able to take over smaller democratic countries. And we have got to be vigilant. We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to. It doesn’t have to lead to war and it doesn’t have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War, but economic sanctions, diplomatic pressure, again, counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries. His mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that’s a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen. 

That answer presented Palin as a bit too knowledgeable for the purposes of ABC News and was, of course, edited out. Later, Palin's answers about a nuclear Iran were carefully edited to the point where she was even edited out in mid-sentence to make it seem that Palin favored unilateral action against that country:

GIBSON: Let me turn to Iran. Do you consider a nuclear Iran to be an existential threat to Israel?

PALIN: I believe that under the leadership of Ahmadinejad, nuclear weapons in the hands of his government are extremely dangerous to everyone on this globe, yes.

GIBSON: So what should we do about a nuclear Iran? John McCain said the only thing worse than a war with Iran would be a nuclear Iran. John Abizaid said we may have to live with a nuclear Iran. Who’s right?

PALIN: No, no. I agree with John McCain that nuclear weapons in the hands of those who would seek to destroy our allies, in this case, we’re talking about Israel, we’re talking about Ahmadinejad’s comment about Israel being the “stinking corpse, should be wiped off the face of the earth,” that’s atrocious. That’s unacceptable.

GIBSON: So what do you do about a nuclear Iran?

PALIN: We have got to make sure that these weapons of mass destruction, that nuclear weapons are not given to those hands of Ahmadinejad, not that he would use them, but that he would allow terrorists to be able to use them. So we have got to put the pressure on Iran and we have got to count on our allies to help us, diplomatic pressure.

GIBSON: But, Governor, we’ve threatened greater sanctions against Iran for a long time. It hasn’t done any good. It hasn’t stemmed their nuclear program.

PALIN: We need to pursue those and we need to implement those. We cannot back off. We cannot just concede that, oh, gee, maybe they’re going to have nuclear weapons, what can we do about it. No way, not Americans. We do not have to stand for that.  

Get the picture? 

(;~/ gary

Very good Gary

I have used this very interview to show folks an example of media bias.

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Worst campaign ever.

  We knew about this already. The McCain campaign should have released the video early as the edit was a deliberate attempt to make her look like a war hawk.

  Oh and looky here. Who brought up the proximity to Russia? It's funny because during the Cold War, Alaska was of vital importance. The line of over the horizon radar that is still in use as far as I know. The  basing of bomber and fighter aircraft, & naval bases.

 How about ancient history from those creaky dusty history books. World War II, anyone remember that?

 The Japanese occupied parts of Alaska, yes OCCUPIED. They had forces of 2 of the westernmost of the Aleutian islands.

 So I failed to see the funny in the seeing Russia from the backyard. I am sure there are many many millions of Americans that can see the target of Russian ICBM's from their front yard. Let's all laugh at that one shall we?

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

This is one of the many things

IMO, 

This is one of the many things that helped Obama win the election in November.  They made Palin look like a fool.  

The McCain camp helped with this.  After ABC edited the footage, they felt it was a good idea to:

1) Have Palin go to more MSM media outlets,  where she was harangued and had HORRIBLE interviews following scripts FROM the McCain camp.

2) Reigning Palin in, on criticizing O-Bomba's connections to Wright, Ayers, etc al.  Had McCain actually done his job and revealed Obama's associations he would've attracted fewer moderate voters.

The left HATES Palin, and will do whatever it takes to destroy her.  Look at the newsweek cover;

"How do you solve a problem like Sarah;

How Sarah Palin is bad for the GOP."

Really?  If Sarah IS REALLY so bad for the GOP, why not encourage her to run, like you did McCain?

OH WAIT, McCain lost.

We see through your game lame stream media.

http://clearthehaze.blogspot.com

Those Pesky Facts again!!!

Thanks Gary.  Great post.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

Hmm... what's that you say?

Hmm... what's that you say?

Palin is right

Palin is right, that there are areas in Alaksa that you can see Russia. They used to be connected by a land bridge... grade school knowledge.

Now tell me,which of the 57 states can say the same? :P

→ OMG! Sally Quinn

Did any of you watch the Sally Quinn segment on O'Reilly just now?

The woman is so devoured with Palin hatred that she actually made up stuff about Palin.

Quinn actually made the leap (interpretation of Palin's thought process) from "I could have gotten an abortion" to "I could throw this baby off a cliff" (after it was born)

I kid you not.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Yes I did, BOR nailed her

Yes I did, BOR nailed her by asking for a example, of what she was talking about, and she was speechless.  Loved it!!

That was one of the best examples of projection, by Quinn that I have ever seen. "Throw her baby off a cliff!!!" indeed.

Facts are like kryptonite to the liberal.

And---

Karl Rove in turn, nailed BOR, when BOR spouted that Obama and his administration were shrewd, not stupid, and Rove then asked , "Then how did they get themselves in such a bind with Kalikh Sheik Muhammed, Cap & Trade,  & Health Care?"

A gotcha, and O'Reilly had to concede it was a good point.

I enjoy "The Factor", as a rule.  But sometimes, I end up pist.

MD

"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

Mark Twain (1835-1910)  

I gotta agree

O'Reilly by and large does a good job but he suffers from a syndrome of I am always right. He always thinks that what ever comes to his mind must be the truth. He always has to latch on to a bogeyman mentality is a weakness. As an example is his fixation that somehow American Oil Companies are bad guys and somehow have the ability to set world oil prices.

I still watch O'Reilly because I like to see him get under the skin of those that deserve it but he is not the protector of us all. He does not have the ability to see correctly on all issues as he believes. O'Reilly needs to learn a little humility, but then again it wouldn't be O'Reilly.

CA...

There are those on the hard left who beleive that abortion should be allowed up to 2 years after a child is born. In the civilized world, we call that INTANTICIDE.  

As for Sally Quinn, (bad)medicine woman, her only real purpose for her being on the factor is to expose her nutty ideas about politics to the general public. She is at a dying fishwrap, & she's one reason why it is dying.

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

→ I know danybhoy

But this absolute mischaracterization is nothing short of stunning.

Maybe Sally Quinn needs to get checked for spirochetes.  Her mind is definitely going, and she knew about Ben Bradlee before she married him.  She was the proof.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

danybhoy...

There are those on the hard left who beleive that abortion should be allowed up to 2 years after a child is born.

Really.  Name just a couple, please.  Or was that just wild hyperbole for the sake of polemics?

Jer

I've never seen or heard of

I've never seen or heard of that either, Jer.  The idea of it is sickining to say the least.

Facts are like kryptonite to the liberal.

→ rocky

There are rumors John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, and published eugenicist, has advocated putting kids down prior to two years.

There's enough verifiable eugenics advocacy on Holdren that it's not worth my time to dig further.

Besides, Jer asked for "a couple".

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Well, gee, there's a

Well, gee, there's a "rumor" Rove engineered Rathergate.  Guess that clinches it.

Jer

→ Jer

I was presenting a possible avenue through which the rumor might have travelled.

I'm pretty sure if Holdren had actually written it, it would be out there as more than rumor.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

It's an extrapolation from

It's an extrapolation from Holdren's book in which he states that a fetus, even after birth, is not a human being until properly 'socialized'.  It used to be 'not a human being until 3rd trimester'..then 'not a human being until born'...now 'not a human being until the state says so'.  Not a far stretch to say 'since it's not a human being until roughly the 2nd year (when it receives this nebulus socialization)', that killing the baby wouldn't really be killing a human being.  More like putting down a dog or cat.

http://patterico.com/2009/07/28/obamas-science-czar-defines-life/

“The fetus, given the opportunity to develop properly before birth, and
given the essential early socializing experiences and sufficient
nourishing food during the crucial early years after birth, will
ultimately develop into a human being,” John P. Holdren, director of
the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, wrote in Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions.

 

Interesting how Jer didn't

Interesting how Jer didn't respond to this.  Perhaps saying 'oh, I was wrong then' is too difficult for an egomaniac like him.

Since you're interested, Amalia...

along with tending to a couple of other matters, I've been reading lengthy articles by and about Holdren at three other websites before responding further.

What have you been doing, other than thinking up insults?

Jer

BTW...it's with a greater degree of embarrassment than pride that I confess to having been wrong on a number of occasions in my nearly two and a half year tenure at NB, but neither have I been reluctant to acknowledge my errors and apologize accordingly.  So, please get your facts straight before launching your smears. 

Jer?

...but neither have I been reluctant to acknowledge my errors and apologize accordingly.

Oh....... really?

Hold on, who are we talking about here? 

 

Right here, Shy...

How many admissions or apologies would I need to produce to satisfy you?

Jer

Oh, you don't need to

Oh, you don't need to apologize to me or anyone. I'm just pointing out the irony in your statement.

Amalia might be onto something about that egomaniacal thing.

 

The irony being what

The irony being what exactly?

Jer

Hello... Didn't catch

Hello...

Didn't catch your answer, Shy.

Jer

You just think very highly

You just think very highly of yourself. Good for you.

:) 

I'm also just busting your chops a bit. 

 

You?  Bust my chops? 

You?  Bust my chops?  Nahhhh....  :-)

Jer

jkb... I have not been

jkb...

I have not been able to track down that specific quote attributed to Holdren.  The book he co-authored with the Erlichs was published in 1977, and not 1973 as patterico implied.

In fact, the statement raises so many controversial implications that it is odd Holdren would not have been intensely grilled about it during his confirmation hearings.  If he were, it was by someone other than David Vitter, the senator who seemed to be his leading critic.

Vitter did question him at length about several of Holdren's statements in the 1977 treatise, and, admittedly there were some assertions in the book which could reasonably be construed as highly provocative.  Holdren noted that these were published over 30 years ago, were part of a college textbook which portrayed a wide range of views on overpopulation exigencies, and was not to be confused with advocacy.  [Although there were clearly recommendations made by Holdren at various junctures in the work]  In any event, he stressed to Vitter that he was opposed to any governmental interference or coercion in the pursuit of optimal population objectives. 

Finally, even if your quote is authentic, it still requires a colossal leap of logic to bootstrap it into an endorsement of aborting two year old [or older] children.

Jer

What am I missing here?

Publication Information: Book Title: Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions. Contributors: Paul R. Ehrlich - author, Anne H. Ehrlich - author, John P. Holdren - author. Publisher: W. H. Freeman. Place of Publication: San Francisco. Publication Year: 1973. Page Number: iii.

The year is clearly 1973. Dude, you have 3 more paragraphs after that. Come on. We usually stop reading after a major major major gaffe like that.

Please explain now why we should read anything after you transposing the release of the book by 4 years. Most especially after a previous poster got the year right.

Amazon: Publisher: W H Freeman & Co (Sd); First Thus edition (June 1973)

Dude? Seriously. What gives? The publisher information is the very first page of a book. Come on Dude. You goofed on the first page? OK. Title. Author. Next page Publisher Dude. 

Because I couldn't find a

Because I couldn't find a reference to the quoted excerpt from any book in 1973, but there were many controversial passages from the colloborative work in 1977 which appeared to generate the most concern from Senator Vitter.

Jer

Dude. You are working way to hard to defend idiots.

  Dude, stop expending energy defending Erlichs the debunked by time itself idiot. The planetary laughingstock. The man Mother Nature herself mocks.

  Whatever dude.

 

Dude! Dude! Dude?

  You are not tracking anything down by Paul R Erlichs are you Dude? Cuz you know he wrote that idiotic book The Population Bomb.

Dude? He was not only wrong. But dead dead dead wrong. While this idiot was running around screaming the sky is falling like Chicken Little with his dead dead dead wrong formula's and predictions, a true planetary hero was going from nation to nation helping to feed the world.

I hope some of your research has involved looking up Norman Borlaug. He just died back in September. I will take 1 Norman Borlaug over 100 idiot Erlichs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

Dude?

Borlaug's discoveries have been estimated to have saved over one billion lives worldwide.[4]

Dude? How many lives has Paul R Erlichs saved? -1 Dude. A cannister containing the end of the world movie Soylent Green fell off a truck and killed a man, Dude.

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

^ The phrase "over a billion lives saved" is often cited by others in reference to Norman Borlaug's work (e.g., [1]). According to Jan Douglas here, Executive Assistant to the World Prize Foundation, the source of this number is Gregg Easterbrook's 1997 article "Forgotten Benefactor of Humanity", the article states that the "form of agriculture that Borlaug preaches may have prevented a billion deaths."  

The Vet Dude.... I'm not

The Vet Dude....

I'm not defending the Erlichs.  I can't help the fact they co-authored books with Holdren.  Here is some further elaboration on the original quoted excerpt.

The statement itself barely makes sense.  It's surprising Holdren wasn't questioned about it during the hearings.  Vitter did ask him about another quote from that book, or at least from that year [1973].

Jer 

K. But you do know stupid rubs off right?

   If Holdren worked with Paul Erlichs, he probably got dosed with massive amounts of stupid. Lethal amounts of stupid most likely. I would say he prolly does not have much time left on this planet.

   Wasting time dude.

"Finally, even if your

"Finally, even if your quote is authentic, it still
requires a colossal leap of logic to bootstrap it into an endorsement
of aborting two year old [or older] children.


Jer"

Why? Anyone who is okay with aborting a baby minutes before it is supposed to be born shouldn't have much of an issue doing it at the age of two. The only real difference between them is age.

jkb...With due credit to JWF, I now

With due credit to JWF, I now see that Holdren collaborated with the Erlichs on books in both 1973 and 1977, although it seems the latter one generated the most controversy.  Apparently, he was not asked to explain the quote during his recent confirmation hearings, although he was heavily grilled about other past statements.

Jer

I told you stupid rubs off.

  Look what it has done to you just in a short amount of research in the intertubes. DANGER. DANGER WILL ROBINSON. GET OUT. Every sentence you read from the Erlichs idiot is a sentence that draws you closer to stupid. I have extensively researched this in my new book The Stupid Bomb

For the love of Gawd man, I implore you to stop before it is too late. 

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

Before you hit me with the

Before you hit me with the stupid stick again, I better clarify a couple of sourcing issues because it is complicated by the fact that Holdren collaborated with the Erlichs on at least a couple of books, one in 1973 and another in 1977.

The excerpt referenced by jkb is apparently from the 1973 publication, but the zombieline secondary link at that site deals almost entirely with the 1977 book, Ecoscience--which is meticulously dissected and critiqued.  Furthermore, Vitter didn't specifically address the latter work either, but reporters from the Washington Times and CNS did and received an explanation of sort from the White House.  And, as I mentioned earlier, Vitter reportedly never asked about the "fetus/human being" quote from 1973, nor did any of the other senators.  If you read the entirety of the zombieline presentation, I think you'll get a sense of why there is confusion involving the material from the two books. 

I'm sure none of this changes jkb's opinion, nor does it change mine (ultimately), although I'll readily concede the controversial nature of many of Holdren's statements from the 70's.

Jer

IT WAS HOLDREN...

 He wrote a book in 77 with Paul & Anne Ehrlich called "Ecoscience". It promotes eugenics, sterilizing the drinking water, & other sorts of polulation control devices. Abortion is high on the list. Now to be fair, the post birth abortion was something I heard on Beck's radio show. I'm sure Jer will take issue with that, & it's his right. Problem with Beck's critics is they call him a fat wackjob, but never disprove what he does because he uses audio/video/writings from those in question. So he's been more or less on target.

 But hey, if you really want an example...China. They have been doing that for a long time. Some elements of muslim society do this as well. It each case, it has much to do with the value of females to those cultures. Those who are born deformed or with other handicaps also have problems in these places. They are seen as a burden.

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

danybhoy...It's

danybhoy...

It's precisely that inference which I challenge.  That said, I'll be the first to concede there is a good deal of information in the 1977 textbook which, while provocative at the time, thirty-two years later seems absolutely bizarre.

The paragraph jkb quoted is from a previous publication of Holdren and the Erlich's.  Frankly it is so inherently flawed, clumsily stated, and intellectually indefensible that I am almost inclined to believe it was an editing error.  Either that or the village idiot dropped by and typed a few lines which managed to make it into the final edition.

It is amazing to me that the senate confirmation committee apparently never bothered to ask Holdren to explain exactly what was the intent of the wording regarding when and how a fetus becomes human.  I, too, am interested in the answer.

Jer

Peter Singer, chair of

Peter Singer, chair of Bioethics at Princeton, has supported this idea.  You can Google for yourself. 

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

Thanks, but

I googled him many months ago.  I don't feel like it right now.  Maybe later.  The guy's not even an American.  He's basically an ideological goofball.

Jer

 

I can't fault Charlie for

I can't fault Charlie for asking a tough question or two to now former Gov. Palin.  I do wonder why I never heard any of the LSM ask any tough questions of either 0bama, or Biden.

Facts are like kryptonite to the liberal.

Palin missed a good chance

Sarah Palin missed a good chance to correct Walters. Obviously, Palin can't remember everything at every moment, but this would have been a good time to call her on it, by answering, "I never said that. Tina Fey said that in her skit on a comedy show. What I said was that you can see Russia from Alsaka in certain areas, and that we need to deal with Russia...", etc etc. 

Unfortunately, by Palin's non-rebuttal to Walters' faulty assertion, it will bring out the idiots who can now claim that, since Palin didn't correct Walters, that she really DID say that she could see Alaska from her house.

Here is the view of Russia from the US:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/12862187

_____________________
Moderate... Democrat... Liberal... Progressive... Socialist... Communist—The progression is clear as day.

This statement is ludicrous

SARAH PALIN: Very significant, and we are a gatekeeper for the
continent, so far national security reasons, and for energy
independence and resource development reasons, Alaska should be
recognized for strategic location on the globe.

Really? How many people cross over to North America via Alaska as opposed to New York , California, Atlanta, or Miami? Gateway to North America? Alaska? Me thinks you're watching too much "Red Dawn."

→ Not many nwahs

Just every ICBM the Russians would send us.

I know missiles aren't exactly human, but they certainly deserve some consideration when it comes to National Defense.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

But to call Alaska the gatekeeper is ridiculous

ICBM's don't traverse land routes. Its ridiculous to infer Alaska is a gateway to North America. Its a gateway to Siberia.

Well it's obvious you know little about military

Strategy, I am sure those installations would be of no use when we launch attacks against Russia. Guess you have the bombers leave from Belle Chase?

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Not to mention tracking

Not to mention tracking systems, interceptors and probably (my guess) intelligence gathering assets.

→ Thanks Dan Diego

Hence, Governor Palin's appropriate use of the term "gatekeeper".

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Think of how soundly

Think of how soundly Canadians sleep at night knowing we hold Alaska, not that they'd admit it.

I'm talking about the "Gate keeper" remark

Alaska is not a gateway. Atlanta is a gateway. New York is a gateway. Toronto is a gateway. The Bering Strait is NOT a gateway and Alaska is not the gate keeper of North America. With the type of wars we are fighting now, New Orleans and people jumping off of foreign freighters is more of an entry point than Alaska. 

Palin's statement is ridiculous. Terrorists in Alaska aren't coming via the Bering Strait. They're coming via Toronto or New York or California or some other hub. They're not canoeing over the strait.

At least she should have clarified what she meant, because with it just hanging out there, it sounds profoundly ignorant - as if Russia or terrorists were going to invade over the Bering Strait.

→ nwahs, scroll up

I believe it was you, and not Sarah Palin, who introduced the term "gateway" into the discussion.

Now it's looking like you switched words in order to make a point when I was allowing that you were using the terms synonymously.

It was getting tedious parsing words with you (traverse, infer), but now it seems I was right in doing so.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Exactly CA~~

Gatekeeper means "protector." Gateway means "path." What Sarah was saying is that Alaska is in a prime position geographically as a launching point for interceptor-type missles that may be headed for CONUS. 

 

→ I missed it Keyser

I didn't miss the switch, but failed to evaluate the subtle difference nwahs was introducing, that he was, in effect, misquoting her to bait his trap.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Gatekeeper means

Gatekeeper means just what it says - watcher of the gate. It doesn't mean "protector." A  "protector" can protect a box of salt. A gatekeeper controls access through a gate.  A person who controls the gate and who enters the gate. There is no gatekeeper if there is no gate. For Alaska to be a gatekeeper, Alaska must be a gate or gateway. Alaska is no more of a gatekeeper than any other coastal state or province or territory in North America, and nowhere near the gatekeeper as major continental hubs are.

The Mayor of Grand Isle could have said what Palin said and have been just as accurate. The Mayors of Dolphin Island, Galveston Island, Key West, Cape Hatteras, and the warden of San Quentin could claim the same foreign policy experience!

→ Yeah, right.

And dams can only have "gates" to control the flow of people, right?  This may stun you, but I've seen water flowing through gates.  And the gates were designed for water.

And when Katie Couric says "Mister Hu, tear down this firewall", she's obviously talking about a real wall that is on fire, right?

And if Marijuana is referred to as a "gateway drug" it necessarily means kids only smoke it at gates, right?

The logical point of ingress for an ICBM would be quite different from that of human traffic.  Even the birds take different routes across land masses than do pedestrian beings?

I'm amazed you continue this argument.  "Mate in one" does not allow you the luxury of walking away, declaring a stalemate.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I see

I see my valet has signed on. I'm sure he will chime in shortly so, I'll nod and bid adieu :)

 

And there's the white flag.

You know, you really should clean up after yourself after leaving a mess like this in our living room. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

→ Fine nwahs

And I'm sure he appreciates being presented as servile.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Retard that thinks he bothers me is slowing down.

  Retard only spammed up one thread today. Retard got the living poo knocked out of him for his effort BEFORE I logged in.

  Retard didn't even bother to respond to Beetle Bailey, the Young Vet.

 Hey Retard, how is denigrating service members, military installations, and the role of America's military as part of Alaska's gatekeeper role working out?

 How is that working for you there Retard? Peeing on the military just to get a hit on one guy at NewsBusters. Working out for ya there? Huh? Retard.

    

Not damn likely to get a Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars aka Popeye the Sailor  Man.

shawn~~

met⋅a⋅phor
/ˈmɛtəˌfɔr, -fər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Show IPA
Use metaphor in a Sentence
See web results for metaphor
See images of metaphor
–noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def. 1).
2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.

 

  • Conservative Endowment for the Arts
  •  

    FedEx might disagree

    Well, n-wwwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhssssssssssssss, we can at least see you do not work for FedEx. 

    Anchorage, unfortunately for you, is a gateway to North America from Asia.  That you constantly insist otherwise demonstrates your ignorance of the matter. 

    "Alaska is the most strategic place in the world" - Billy Mitchell 

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    Gateway = path--- Aha!

    Thanks BK, now I know why nwahs mentioned "Atlanta" as a gateway.

    It is a "path" to the suburbs of Atlanta.

    Very important military consideration.

    Or for purposes of vacationing or traveling in the area.

    Hey, maybe it was General Shermans' gateway to the sea.

    MD

    "There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

    Double

    Sorry.

     

    Sorry Nwahs, youv been outed again

    Alaska is not a gateway. Atlanta is a gateway. New York is a gateway.
    Toronto is a gateway. The Bering Strait is NOT a gateway and Alaska is
    not the gate keeper of North America.
    With the type of wars we are fighting now, New Orleans and people
    jumping off of foreign freighters is more of an entry point than
    Alaska. 

    Not that this has jack to do with her statement,(I will get to that) but how are these other ports any different then the ones in Alaska? This make little sense to me.

    Walters asked her: Do you still feel that Alaska’s proximity to Russia from whatever place
    you can see it, is significant foreign policy experience?

    I dont see what this has to do with terrorist, she specifically said Russia. Sorry dude, but you have been caught skewing the context again!

    My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

    "Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

    But Alaska is in fact a gateway

     Alaska is not a gateway. Atlanta is a gateway. New York is a gateway. Toronto is a gateway.  Alaska is also a gateway, if you bother considering the point of view from someone who has lived there and has personally seen its air traffic from all over Asia and North America. 

    "Alaska is the most strategic place in the world" - Billy Mitchell

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    → Gateway

    No, ICBMs follow the "shortest distance" principle.

    Maybe they don't traverse land routes, but certainly ICBMs do traverse land masses.

    Traverse: To travel or pass across, over, or through

    And your assumption that I inferred anything cannot be substantiated from anything I posted

    LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

    Gateway---

    If a Russian were to look eastward while standing on the Chukchu Peninsula, I would think it reasonable to consider that the Russian might see Alaska as a gateway to North America.

    MD

    "There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

    Alaska-Siberia---

    So one can go from Alaska to Siberia, but not from Siberia to Alaska and on into the rest of North America.

    Makes it sound like there is only one direction of travel up there.

    Huh, that must be the "Coriolis force" I heard about.

    MD

    "There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

    Mark Twain (1835-1910) 

    More ignorance from n-wwwaaaaaaahhhhhhhhssssssssssssssss

    So I wonder why the old Alaska Air Command bothered with bases like Galena or King Salmon all those years...

    No, it is not ridiculous to infer AK as a gateway to North America.  All you need to do is to stand on Point Woronzof on a given day and look up and towards the west.  Count the 747s landing there from all points in North America and Asia. 

    That will make you reconsider, if you have integrity.   

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    Is calling NWAHS a high profile tool glorifying him?

    Having been in Alaska myself and knowing what bases are where and somewhat what goes on it certainly shows that NWAHS is totally unprepared for what Palin knew and what NWAAAAAAHs did not know.

    How low can NWAHS go? Forget it...I think he takes that as a personal challenge.

    In a word, yes, you are glorifying him :-)

    n-wwwaaaaahhhhhhhssssssssss has too massive an ego to see what kind of intellectual firepower he is facing, just between us two (and others), since we have been there and have a good sense of what goes on there.  He thinks he can just make a pronouncement about a place he clearly hasn't been and end the discussion. 

    I don't know how long ago you were there, but I was there earlier in the decade and 747s were a constant sight in the skies, from all parts of Asia and North America, as I noted elsewhere.  It IS a gateway...the joke is on him and he doesn't even know it.   

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    I did not live there, but I know it is a key area militarily and

    and otherwise, very necessary. Even more so if we'd tap that oil it has!

    "That will make you

    "That will make you reconsider, if you have integrity."

    Oh well, so much for him reconsidering then, lol.

    Quite right, CA.

    No missles back then, but my dad was stationed in the Aleutians during WWII. He said they were watching the Russians as closely as they did the  Japanese. 

     

    Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.

    nwahs, icBm , ICBM, Check out the Ballistic, part.

    When all else fails try science: BALLISTIC TRAJECTORIES

    "In this lesson we will experiment with computing and visualizing ballistic
    trajectories
    .
    A ballistic trajectory is the path followed by an object which,
    after it is given some initial velocity, travels only under the influence of
    gravity. For the purposes of this lesson we will ignore the effects of air
    resistance. "

    If nwahs, you have a globe kicking around your home, try this: 

    Place an end of a piece of string on iran, stretch the string out and find the shortest length of string that ends up in the USA... Now you know why the plan to put missile defence in Poland is needed, the Idea is to whack the missiles in the boost phase.  And a radar system in Alaska helps to do tracking in REAL TIME..

    To put it in terms of jet travel, It would be a flight with no stops.   IRAN to LAX 28 minutes...landing at Mach 25

    State controlled health care ! music video.

    Re ICBM

    Polar Map: http://www.international.gc.ca/assets/fac/map.jpg

    Surprising how geographically-challenged folks just don't get this. Re Iran, Poland is as good as it gets; Russia would be better, but that's not going to happen.

    You also want to establish a track while in boost phase, because once you get out of the atmosphere you can deploy decoy warheads. Iran is not there yet, but rudimentary decoys are not difficult.

    yea updated below

    Slick, yea, IRAN to LAX right over Alaska, well more over Poland

    NL-207 should be here, hemi (spheres) ,rippin up the 1/4 mile.

    The ICBM launch is in this northern hemisphere. 

    yea slick ICBM technology pushing 50 years old... 

    all that reverse engineering, sheesh thank God they failed to come up with the zero.

    slick loved your map, just a small chunk of iran on it.

    nwahs, if you are globeless , and string  free,  you can try this:  With this map use a "straight edge" Know what that is?

    here is a full on  HEMIstraight edge this..

    State controlled health care ! music video.

    n-wwwaaaaaahhhhhhhhsssssssssssss inserting foot into mouth

    n-wwwaaaaahhhhhhhhhsssssssssssssss, fortunately for you, I have lived in Anchorage. 

    Ted Stevens International is quite the international gateway.  If you stood on Point Woronzof, as I have many times, you can see a constant stream of 747s coming in from all points across the Pacific Rim.  Air China, Cathay Pacific, Japan Air Lines, Korean Air Lines, just to name a few.  These planes carry much cargo AND passengers. 

    The last stop of the ill-fated KAL 007 that was shot down by an Su-15 Flagon of the Soviet PVO last stopped in Anchorage. 

    FedEx's number 1 hub is at Memphis.  Where is their number 2?  Anchorage. 

    During World War II, Lend Lease aircraft sent to the Soviet Union were shipped westward.  This necessitated the construction of the Alcan more than anything else - to facilitate the construction of airfields so these aircraft could fly on to Siberia.  At Fairbanks - at that non-gateway - the planes were transferred to Soviet crews who were briefly trained on them and then flew them on into the Soviet Union.  The same route was frequented by VIPs needing a relatively safe passage from the Soviet Union to points in North America. 

    Anchorage is a strategic point as far as aircraft are concerned because at that point, from where I am sitting in TX, you are halfway to Korea.  It takes 7 hours to get there from where I sit and another 7-8 hours gets you to Seoul or Beijing.  If you do not believe me, check out Billy Mitchell, who called Alaska the "most strategic place in the world".  It is closer to Singapore than HI is. 

    You are professing your ignorance once more.  Not surprising.   

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    Stupid veterans.

      Your job is to be dumb and poor and serve in the military because you have nothing else going in your life.

      Your job is not to travel the world and learn and understand what goes on on a global scale.

      Got that. I am nwahs. I am smart because.....  I just am. Ok. Shut up. Stupid veteran.

      I call this one veteran here Popeye so I can denigrate his service. You, you I now dub Beetle Bailey.

      So just shut up Beetle Bailey. You are stupid with your quoting Billy Mitchell the famous tennis player and your knowing and seeing stuff.

    Sincerely,

    a yellow stain coward of a loser.

    nwahs

    PS: excellent post Unsane - your friend Popeye the sailor man.

    Queeg lives

    Sincerely,

    a yellow stain coward of a loser.  "Yellow Stain"?  Who the hell are you?  Captain Queeg?  Do you need to find that quart of strawberries still?

    :-)

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    Totally

    Totally.  Debunked.  Yet.  Again.

    More amusing, not, does this get.  (Yoda speak for you lose again, Buckwheat).

    I hope he fails, too.

     

     

    Oh.  my.  GOD NWAHS, you

    Oh.  my.  GOD NWAHS, you are stupid.  (h/t to John Hillerman) 

    "Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

    I have a lot more respect

    I have a lot more respect for those ICBM guys since I learned they also have to program in all those turns to avoid land masses.

    The flight paths must look like big zippers: left, left, right, straight, right, left... 

    This statement is spot on dead to rights true.

    SARAH PALIN: Very significant, and we are a gatekeeper for the
    continent, so far national security reasons, and for energy
    independence and resource development reasons, Alaska should be
    recognized for strategic location on the globe.

    From Sarah Palin's resignation speech -

    Alaska’s mission – to contribute to America. We’re strategic in the world as the air crossroads of the world, as a gatekeeper of the continent. Bold visionaries knew this - Alaska would be part of America's great destiny.

    Indeed it has been the gatekeeper. From being part of the Distant Early Warning (DEW) Over the Horizon Radar system, to the basing of nuclear bombers prior to the advancement of ICBM missiles. From supplying the submarines that crossed the Arctic Ocean under teh ice to the numerous Cold War bases including Adak, Alaska. Alaska was a vital front during WWII. Parts of Alaska were invaded by Japan. Alaska and her numerous natural resources has been a vital link in keeping this country safe.

      The Cold War may be over but Alaska's role as gatekeeper has not subsided. The Arctic Ocean is one of the last least explored frontiers and Alaska sits on her edge. History.com - The Arctic 

     And we still have quite a few military installations and 24,000 military men and women serving in Alaska today.

    Major Installations

    Army

    Fort Greely

    Fort Wainwright

    Fort Richardson

    Air Force

    Eielson AFB

    Elmendorf AFB

    Eareckson Air Station (Formerly Shemya AFB)

    Coast Guard

    Marine Safety Office, Anchorage

    Marine Safety Office, Juneau

    Marine Safety Office, Valdez

    Air Station, Kodiak

    Air Station, Sitka

    Personnel Totals

    Army 8,897

    Navy & Marine Corps 569

    Air Force 13,406

    Coast Guard 2,766

    Active Duty Military 15,684

    Reserve and National Guard 5,566

    Total Personnel 24,016


     

     

    Sincerely,

    a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

    Kennedy/NWAHS dumping all over the threads, yet again.

    He must eat high fiber to keep dumping.

    You forgot to mention ADAK

    You forgot to mention ADAK Alaska which has a rather large installation and is a major NAVY base as well.

    ADAK closed years ago.

    ADAK closed years ago.

    Can't forget sir.

      Spent 30 days in the dark there.

      Unfortunately it has been closed. I listed the current bases.

    You mean the vet hung

    You mean the vet hung around the base all alone for a month before he realized they had turned out the lights and locked up?

    [juust kidding ya]

    Jer

    I can see the arctic circle from my front yard.

       Adak is very close to the arctic circle. I was there I believe sometime around December. Very little sun if there ever was any at all.  

    Sincerely,

    a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

    To JWF and Unsane

    You two are such information "whores"... I love every minute of it.

    Another dipsh*t debunked, yet again.

     I need to stay up later at night, I miss all the fun!

    "The bottom line is that the idea that government bureaucrats have enough knowledge to manage an economy well is the height of conceit." - Friedrich Hayek

    Seeing Russia

    Ah they're dragging out the old "I can see Russia from my house" SNL routine-- very cute, MSM-- well, at least Governor Sarah is "seeing Russia"-- all that your guy BHO MMM MMM MMM  could see from his house in Chicago, was Jeremiah "GD America" Wright and William "The Mad Bomber" Ayres!

    Besides hating America like

    Besides hating America like much of the world, what exactly was boo boo's foreign policy experience?

    Alaska from your house?

    That ain't nothing!

    I can see @ssh*les on the network TV news everytime I turn the TV on!

     

    I can see Dulles Airport

    I can see Dulles Airport from where I live, that makes me an expert on the airline industry.

    Our daily dose of intellectual bankruptcy

    Thanks for your usual drive-by demonstration of both your intellectual bankruptcy and your cowardice.

    Yeah, Sarah Palin knows nothing about foreign policy, having been the Commander-in-Chief of the AK NG, whose members deploy on a routine basis, and have to be concerned with external threats - such as those, potentially, from Russia or elsewhere in Asia.   

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    Hmm...I really had never

    Hmm...I really had never considered that fact.  Do you think the stress got to her?  Commander Palin resigned after only a little over 2 years--one of the briefest tenures as a CIC in American history.

    In hindsight, maybe Clinton should have emphasized his twelve years of command.

    Jer

    → Jer

    Let's tap into your professional insight.

    14 frivolous lawsuits.  All of which require legal defense.  All of which disappear if she steps down

    She's not rich like so many other prominent politicians

    She can name a successor of her choosing

    The future is a guaranteed $mega-million bonanza

    As head of her group of lawyers, do you advise she stay and fight (OK, I know it pays the lawyers better)?  Or do you admit an understanding of the hand she's been dealt? 

    LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

    Cool...

    Only 14, eh?  If memory serves, that's about 480 less than filed against Obama during his first six months in office.

    But, I don't begrudge her decision.  My personal advice would have been to serve out her term as governor, which in the modern political era has proved to be a useful platform from which to launch a presidential bid.  And doing so would have further neutralized the lack of experience objections.  However, there are also compelling arguments in support of her choice.  So, I'm not going to second guess it.

    Jer

    → 494 Lawsuits?

    I thought it was more like 13 lawsuits against Obama, all having to do with the same issue.

    LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

    → Jer

    I hear they found "lawyer gold" in New Orleans today.

    LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

    CA~~

    I read it as just another method of redistributing the wealth. My guess is, this decision wouldn't probably have been reached in a better political environment.

    Being a smartass gets you nowhere

    Being a smartass gets you nowhere.  But if that is the best you can do to engage in your usual party hackery, hey, I guess you have no argument.

    Maybe ANY ex-governor should emphasize the fact that they have troops under them.  Say, did you know that Governor Palin visited her troops out in the field of her own freewill, while your God, His Majesty The Shahinshah, had to be dragged kicking and screaming over there while serving as a U.S. Senator? 

    What is wrong with this picture, hack?  The governor was visiting her troops, while the U.S. Senator couldn't be bothered to.  And I bet He still hasn't talked to Gen McChrystal.  The evil Bush spoke to his commanders once weekly.

    Hmmmm.  Seems that someone here understands the concept of leadership better than most, even as an ex-governor.

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    You want respect and yet you pulll crap like this.

       This separates you from the other trolls here?  Commander Palin. Unsane was responding to a troll that took one sentence out of many that was describing Alaska's role in this country. It was not meant to speak to her experience in handling a job. So context is only important when a liberal utters something.

      Why don't you, Jer, tell us. Do you agree with JesseJacksonIV troll? Do you agree the statement above was appropriate? If not, then why slam on one of the responses to him?

      So it is now ok to separate one sentence out of all the below and say that is what she was talking about? Huh? TELL US TROLL DEFENDER. 

    That manifestation that we saw with that invasion of Georgia shows us some steps backwards that Russia has recently taken away from the race toward a more democratic nation with democratic ideals. That’s why we have to keep an eye on Russia. And, Charlie, you’re in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors. We need to have a good relationship with them. They’re very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor. They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska. Well, I’m giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it’s in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.

    We cannot repeat the Cold War. We are thankful that, under Reagan, we won the Cold War, without a shot fired, also. We’ve learned lessons from that in our relationship with Russia, previously the Soviet Union. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it’s in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along. Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you’re going to be expected to be called upon and help. But NATO, I think, should include Ukraine, definitely, at this point and I think that we need to — especially with new leadership coming in on January 20, being sworn on, on either ticket, we have got to make sure that we strengthen our allies, our ties with each one of those NATO members. We have got to make sure that that is the group that can be counted upon to defend one another in a very dangerous world today. What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are if a larger power is able to take over smaller democratic countries. And we have got to be vigilant. We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to. It doesn’t have to lead to war and it doesn’t have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War, but economic sanctions, diplomatic pressure, again, counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries. His mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that’s a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen. 

    Sincerely,

    a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

    JWF and Unsane...

    Would you two please lighten up?  I have no problem with Sarah Palin.  One of my first posts about her was that I thought she was a breath of fresh air on the political scene and for the Republican party.  My opinion has never changed.

    And it should be evident from my clearly more serious response to Cool that I have no animus against her.

    A personal note to Unsane:  You have built a career here at NB on chronic smartassery and self-righteous smugness.  I know all of my efforts at conciliation--and there have been many--have been pointedly ignored or dramatically rejected by you.  Consequently, your relentless charges of hackery on my part are not just silly but absolutely meaningless.

    Jer 

    Well I dont know Jer

    I find Unsane one of the most informative commenters here.

    You have built a career here at NB on chronic smartassery and self-righteous smugness.

    But this does remind me of someone, for sure!

    My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

    "Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

    general company...

    I find Unsane one of the most informative commenters here.

    I do, too, and I've told him so on several occasions.  Nevertheless, he's never shown me the courtesy of a single, simple "thank you"--only the repeated and tiresome inclination to call me a "hack".

    He may have been reciting the constitution when he was ten, but apparently he wasn't learning good manners.

    Jer

    I find Unsane one of the most informative commenters here.

    "I find Unsane one of the most informative commenters here."

    He has information alright ;-)

    And you?

    Just commentary? Besides, I thought you never replied to my post? Something about them being uninteresting?

     

    My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

    "Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

    I was replying to Jer' post

    Not yours. I referenced something you said, but if your going to nitpick then take I it back...good day. sniff

    Go ahead,

    Take it back, Take back your angry slander
    Take back your pension plan
    Take back your ups and
    downs of your life
    In Raisin-Land

    My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

    "Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

    It was not about Sarah Palin Uncle Jer.

       It was about a drive-by troll posting an inflammatory straw man hit. A drive-by troll that had no intention of defending his statement.

      He left it to you and you took the bait. Now you have to take the pain. The proper response would have been to let it go. Unless you agreed with him that is.

      Again, not about Sarah Palin.

    One more time:  It was not

    One more time:  It was not about JJIV and what he said.  It wasn't even about Sarah Palin per se.  It was about Unsane and what he said.  And the irony that Clinton had been harshly criticized for his lack of military experience, yet his tenure as CIC of the Guard-to which Unsane attached such importance--was roughly six times that of Palin's.

    Jer

    Jer

    Unsane made no mention of clinton. He was comparing Palin and the 0. You'd have to now admit that Palin's experience dwarfs his now wouldn't you.

    "If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

    RESTLESS...

    Dwarfs?  That's an overstatement.  But no question both [Obama and Palin] were subject to appropriate criticism regarding the "experience" issue.  That Palin was the target of more scrutiny and derision by the media was unfortunate and unfair.

    Jer

    Did they both get it?

     
    But no question both [Obama and Palin] were subject to appropriate criticism regarding the "experience" issue.

    Seems like Palin was derided for her lack of experience, and Obama praised for his.

    My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

    "Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

    Now that we have dropped Sarah Palin from the conversation...

      Look at what I pasted from teh interview. That is everything she said before and after the "see Russia from land here in Alaska". Not a word of which ended on TV. All of it giving context. All of it speaking to her ability to walk on the national stage.

    • Russian relations.
    • The cold war.
    • A bigger nation invading a smaller nation.
    • NATO.
    • Other potential members of NATO.
    • Russian hegemony.

     Serious stuff. Not a word of which we heard. All we got was  EDIT (in a high pitched whiny voice) I can see Russia from my house. END EDIT. 

    Sincerely,

    a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

    One final thing Uncle Jer.

      You did not answer my question. Did you agree and do you support the drive-by troll? 

    Sincerely,

    a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

    PS: poor Shawn is growling in his cereal bowl right about now. Stop with the multiple posts you evil little witchy man. Yea, I see ya. Eating your cereal and surfin' the 'net.

    Lol Mr Vet

    Hey at least its not 8 posts back to back to back etc and its not cereal its top ramen. Out of curiosity though, I thought Jer was responding to Unsane, not Jessie Jackson and he did not mention anything about the Airport comment, is this sort of like when Sergeant Rock asked me why I hated Christians?, hmmm actually on second thought I don't think he even asked me, he just said I hated Christianity :-P

    edit

    Shawn,

    Jer did respond to Unsane, in an effort to carry JJIV's water. He was subsequently slapped around for it. Shoulda seen it comin'. 

    "If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

    Not exactly, Restless...

    I glanced at JJIV"s post in passing, but I wasn't carrying his water by any stretch.  My comment was a mild tweak of Unsane's bestowal of the mantle of foreign policy authority on Palin by virtue of two years of Alaskan National Guard CIC.

    Should have I anticipated a backlash?  Sure.  Unsane doesn't even tolerate cordial differences of opinion, much less gentle kidding.  I wish him Godspeed and offer prayers for his safety when he leaves for Iraq.  He ignores it.  I welcome his return.  He ignores it.  I compliment his foreign policy expertise.  I'm a hack.  I make any comment with which he disagrees.  I'm a hack.  I try friendly joking.  I'm a hack.

    He never learned basic courtesy.  But he thinks he good at slapping around.

    Jer

    Sorry big guy.

      I was not part of the conversation and the Commander Palin jab irked me.

      The simple fact is nothing really gives you the experience to be President of the United States. There are only 40 some guys that have the experience needed to be President. Most of them are dead, 2 are ineligible due to term limits, 1 is clearly a kook, and the last one, well, do you want another Bush in the White House again?

      So what we have left is stuff that comes close. And yes, 2 years as Governor, and CIC of the Alaskan National Guard beats nothing at all.

      What gave her the mantle of foreign policy authority was all of the opinion surrounding the next to Russia sentence in the interview. We were supposed to look at that and say, wow, she knows what she is talking about and hey, I happen to agree.

      Didn't get that now did we? It was all on the cutting room floor.

    Little bit of advice big guy.

       Don't try to tweak people that don't like you. They may blow up the tweak into something bigger than you intended.

    Do you try to follow your

    Do you try to follow your own advice?

    Besides, I'm a perpetual optimist.  One day Unsane might learn that proportionate replies will earn far more respect than flying off the handle at everything from honest disagreements to perceived provocations.

    Jer

    Umm Dude?

      You started it. Unsane responded to a troll. I did not even get involved and I found your response to Unsane inappropriate.

    I did not even get involved

    "I did not even get involved"

    You didn't?

    You are getting addled again.

      I was referring to the JJIV to Unsane post. I got involved after your made the Commodore hit.

    Teh Vet needs teach teh lib how to tell time

    "I was referring to the JJIV to Unsane post"

    So you were asking JJIV if he agreed with troll or Jer?

    "I got involved after your made the Commodore hit."

    I never had a Commodore, I had a PC Junior and it sucked, but the lib made his PC Jr post at 00:10

    Teh naked unemployed zany vet  eatings the Fruit Loops ssmade posts at

    23:45

    23:54

    23:58

    Teh lib bots meh a bad timez, its gots bad hanz. So  if Teh Vet can explains to teh lib...teh lib is happy.

     

     

    good GRIEF, Jer

    Is it something about the water in California that makes you all mushy?

    Why is it a constant Pity Me Party with you? So, Unsane, myself, JWF, et al, see it differently, and heck yeah we're going to go at it with you. QUIT with the "I've always been this/that with that/this person..." . WE. DON'T. CARE. Put a fork in that nonsense, man up, and just debate and sling stuff back and forth with us. Continue to dish your crap out and expect us to dish our crap right back at you. But ON-TOPIC crap. Please.

    This isn't Romper Room. It's NewsBusters (dot org).

     

    Thanks Shy...

    Advice noted, and will be seriously considered. 

    Now, here is MY advice for YOU:

    Stop running around these threads like an immature, thirteen-year-old girl--phoning, texting, twittering, meeting her eighth-grade girlfriends in the hallway between class and at the mall afterwards--whining with adolescent indignity about "didya hear what Jer said", "didya see what Jer wrote", "he's such a meany", "let's never invite him to one of our parties", "we gotta stick together", "wow, I'm so glad we're not like him" "ooh, he makes me soo mad!"...

    act like a 44-year old ADULT and fight your own battles.

    That would help a lot.  Thanks

    Jer

    BTW...I live in GA.  But, hey, I've only made reference to that fact about 20 or 30 times in the past couple of years, and I know it takes you a while to catch on.

    Jer's latest post

    Is further proof that he simply is what he is.

    EDIT: Glad you're considering my advice. It comes from the conservative heart. (And got you confused with someone re: CA, sorry...)

     

    Shy...

    Are you addressing this post to me or your eighth-grade girlfriends?

    Jer

    Jer's LATEST latest post

    Re-reaffirms and further confirms our already pretty-much confirmed sizing-up of Jer.

    Guy is incapable of avoiding personal barbs.

     

    Shy....

    Would you kindly cease and desist?

    You jump in almost every time Jer posts, and just derail the conversation and make a general pest of yourself?  I'm just sayin'.

    There is more to posting here than "troll bashing"...and Jer isn't a troll. 

    Please, please, you are a pal of mine, but it is just unseemly for you to continue with this hopping up and down.

    Thanks.

    I hope he fails, too.

     

     

    Blonde

    Jer's a grown man who can handle himself, I'm sure.

     

    That wasn't the topic of my post.

    Was it?

    I hope he fails, too.

     

     

    Blonde

    That was my answer to your post.

    :)

    Clarification

     My comment was a mild tweak of Unsane's bestowal of the mantle of foreign policy authority on Palin by virtue of two years of Alaskan National Guard CIC.  Hmmmm.  Rereading my post, I fail to see where I declared her the next George Kennan.  Is she a foreign policy authority?  No.  But is she a dunce?  No.  Does she have experience in foreign policy?  More than most think by virtue of her being in AK and by having had a role to play in the defense establishment.

    THAT was the point of that post.  It isn't all that hard to see. 

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    I've tried to cover all the

    I've tried to cover all the bases in the couple of PMs I sent to you.

    Jer

    For Jer

     A personal note to Unsane:  You have built a career here at NB on chronic smartassery and self-righteous smugness.  A career?  Damn, I didn't realize I was getting paid for this gig!  :-)

    I don't like the term "self-righteous smugness".  I like the term "insufferable arrogant p***k" much better.  So color me hurt.  Being a smartass...well, blame my entire family.  Sarcasm in my family is an art form. 

     Consequently, your relentless charges of hackery on my part are not just silly but absolutely meaningless.  I wish I could agree.  Unfortunately for you, my ability to read and my ability to remember are among my more feared and carefully cultivated traits.  I do not call you a hack just because it is the word of the day.  I call you that for a reason.  The reason is quite simple: whenever an issue concerning a Dem or a Leftist comes up, I can count on you to some in with your normal line of "SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  They do it too!  They do it too!  They do it too!" or words to this effect, wrapped up in a post well imbued with smugness of your own. 

    I base this on your history of posting here.  As you have been reading what I type for a long time, I as well have been reading yours. 

    I know all of my efforts at conciliation--and there have been many--have been pointedly ignored or dramatically rejected by you.  I could take the "drama queen" road here as well and whine endlessly about the forum topic I posted on taxation for YOUR benefit, which was roundly ingnored.  I was hoping it could be a testament to how two sides of the aisle can conduct a policy debate, but alas, it takes two to tango, and one never showed to the dance hall. 

    I didn't realize I was supposed to respond to each and every single gesture aimed at me, regardless what it is.  Unfortunately, i do have this thing called a "life".  In the case of this thread, the only reason I took a break from a project I was working on (with a close deadline, at that) was that after post three of complete and utter nonsense from n-wwaaaaaahhhhhhssssssssssssss, it was enough, and I had to drop the hammer.  In the case of the coward JJIV, I just felt the need to counteract his/her nonsense.  Yeah, perhaps best to ignore the troll, but I alwasy keep in mind the many more eyes reading here, and decided to do something about it by demonstrating the pratfalls of intellectual bankruptcy and the failure to intellectually defend the ideas one supports. 

    If I do not respond to each and every post with my name on it, don't be offended.  You wished me well when I deployed and I was most appreciative (for example), but as my hands were the TEENSIEST bit full, no, it was a bit difficult to jump online and show said appreciation.  Things get difficult at times. 

    All that being said, duty calls once more, so for Shahinshah's sake, man, stop sounding like a bridesmaid whining to her friends about how she should have been the maid-of-honor.  For the record, I'd have a beer with you anytime.  So remember that when you are in this particular region of the great state of Texas...

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    A [partial] response, Unsane...

    I like the term "insufferable arrogant p***k" much better.  So color me hurt.  Being a smartass...well, blame my entire family.  Sarcasm in my family is an art form. 

    Now I feel like such a cad.  And since I'm the compassionate type, let's amend the description to "insufferable smartassity". 

    Unfortunately for you, my ability to read and my ability to remember are among my more feared and carefully cultivated traits.

    At least we have something in common.

     I do not call you a hack just because it is the word of the day.  I call you that for a reason.  The reason is quite simple: whenever an issue concerning a Dem or a Leftist comes up, I can count on you to some in with your normal line of "SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  SEE!  They do it too!  They do it too!  They do it too!" or words to this effect, wrapped up in a post well imbued with smugness of your own. 

    Indeed, it hasn't been the word of the day, or the week, or the month.  It's been a long-standing label which you have pinned on me, and had it been applied with just a degree of discretion might not be objectionable...certainly not nearly so stenuously.  But your indiscriminate slapass usage of the term betrays animus and carelessness--"feeling" rather than "thinking"--as well as an apparent desire to inflame rather than illuminate dialogue. 

    True, on occasion I point out similar conduct engaged in by both parties--not always, but enough that your point can't be casually dismissed.  What can I say?  Well, here's one thing:  I detest hypocrisy.  Here's another:  My use of the polemical technique is no more prevalent than the counter ploy repeated here ad nauseum, to wit: "Boy, if that had been a Republican, the media would have carved him up like a Christmas turkey."  Sometimes I'll agree with the claimant, sometimes not, and sometimes I'll say "See! See! See! They did it, too."  And when there is similar conduct, but tilted in favor of Democrats, I try to always concede the fact.

    I've got to close out for now.  Hopefully we can address this further, but let me make a couple of quick points regarding the tax forum and my lack of response to it.

    You made the original voting for Obama "makes you a common thief" comment [I believe] in early March of 2008.  It wasn't until late in June that you started your forum, with a good many of the comments coming in the latter part of August.  I was already preparing for a medical sabbatical from NB by the summeer of '08.  Frankly, that just wasn't a thicket I was looking to jump in to at that stage--particularly in light of your style of "debate", Unsane--and it raises perhaps the most troublesome issue I have with you.  You have an offputting tendency to assume a preachy and patronizing persona, as if you were the school master lecturing a pupil--a naive, unlearned and even deluded innocent in desperate need of your tutelage.  There are a good many who engage in the behavior and don't know what the shit they're talking about.  You do, in most cases at least, but that doesn't make it less annoying.

     

    Jer 

    An abbrievated rebuttal

     You have an offputting tendency to assume a preachy and patronizing persona, as if you were the school master lecturing a pupil--a naive, unlearned and even deluded innocent in desperate need of your tutelage.  Jer, welcome to my world.  This is how Leftists/Statists/Socialists communicate with me on a daily basis. 

    And believe me, let me point out that yes, there are plenty of naive, unleaerned, and definitely delueded innocents in desperate need of - well, if not my tutelage, then they need somebody's. 

    I will close this abbreviated response with a story.  Once I was traveling on a bus with a bunch of doctors - it doesn't matter where or why - and we were engaged in conversation on many topics.  The docs just got done complaining to me and each other about a rather arrogant colleague of theirs.  They howled that as said colleague addressed them, "He was putting on airs!"  At which point one asked me my background. 

    I said, "I am a very humble, nice guy.  Just don't discuss matters of history of foreign policy or I will be putting on airs of my own." 

    Just as I expect you to behave as if you are Clarence Darrow on matters of the law. 

    :-)

    "CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

    From here

    we can see how clever you are...

    Hey tool! Thanks for the laugh before bed... you always seem to

    be into slapstick...  :)

    Newsbusters!

      Now celebrating 6 days nwahs free. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

    Hi JWF, did the mods finally do the right thing and ban him?

    :) yippeeeeeee!

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