Friday's NBC Nightly News took a balanced look at the issue of whether colleges would be safer if students were allowed greater freedom to carry concealed weapons on campus. Though the report failed to delve into any supporting statistics, soundbites were featured from advocates on both sides of the issue, including Mike Guzman of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus: "This is where we see mass shootings occur, at gun-free zones, because these criminals have a government guarantee or a university guarantee that their intended victims will be unarmed and unable to defend themselves." (Transcript follows)
After the clip of Guzman, correspondent Janet Shamlian introduced a clip from Lori Haas, the mother of a school shooting victim, who "believes armed and well-intentioned students would be no match for a gunman like the one who shot her daughter." Haas: "He had two guns, he had the element of surprise. The fear that grips you when you're worried about your life is paralyzing."
Below is a complete transcript of the story from the Friday April 18 NBC Nightly News:
BRIAN WILLIAMS: NBC News "In Depth" tonight, guns on campus. As we reported earlier this week, Virginia Tech has just marked the one-year anniversary of that massacre on campus. That has opened a new debate over whether students should be able to carry weapons legally. Our report from NBC's Janet Shamlian.
JANET SHAMLIAN: There's no college credit for this class, unless you consider the concealed handgun license students like Lauren Nogle could earn when they pass.
LAUREN NOGLE, TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: In today's world, it's sad to say, but you need to have a gun for self-protection, even in school.
SHAMLIAN: And yet her school, Texas State University, like most, doesn't allow guns on campus, even with a license.
MIKE GUZMAN, STUDENTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY ON CAMPUS: This is where we see mass shootings occur, at gun-free zones, because these criminals have a government guarantee or a university guarantee that their intended victims will be unarmed and unable to defend themselves.
SHAMLIAN: Mike Guzman is part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, an Internet-based group created after the deadly shootings at Virginia Tech. They claim more than 25,000 members, and they have one goal: for owners to be able to carry their weapons concealed from the dorm to the lecture hall and everywhere else on campus.
LORI HAAS, MOTHER OF VIRGINIA TECH SHOOTING VICTIM: Absolutely not. Unequivocally no.
SHAMLIAN: Lori Haas believes armed and well-intentioned students would be no match for a gunman like the one who shot her daughter, Emily, at Virginia Tech. Emily survived.
HAAS: He had two guns, he had the element of surprise. The fear that grips you when you're worried about your life is paralyzing.
SHAMLIAN: A year after the massacre, Virginia Tech now has one of the largest groups of the guns on campus movement. Only Utah allows permit holders to carry guns on all public university campuses, though eight states have legislation pending. One year later, 32 stones line a footpath at Virginia Tech, each marking a life lost, amidst a growing debate over whether allowing guns on campus might prevent further tragedy or cause more pain. Janet Shamlian, NBC News, Blacksburg, Virginia.
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I would like to...
April 21, 2008 - 05:03 ET by old cromodify her statement.
HAAS: He had two guns, he had the element of surprise. The fear that
grips you when you're worried about your life is paralyzing, for the would be shooter who would think twice before ever trying a stunt like that at a concealed carry campus.
Really. What campus
April 21, 2008 - 07:01 ET by motherbeltReally. What campus shooting has NOT had the element of surprise?
I must have missed the news story about the guy who said, "I'm going out to my car to get my gun, and then I'm going to start killing people!"
Yet even in that element of surprise, people have had the presence of mind to go out to their car and come back with a gun to stop the shooter-on-a-spree.
With all respect to Ms. Haas and sympathy for her tragic loss, she is assuming that all young people on campus would be panic-stricken and unable to respond rationally. That is patently not true.
Haas suffered no loss
April 21, 2008 - 07:56 ET by SpockActually, Mrs. Haas suffered no permanent loss as her daughter survived the shooting.
When I went to school here in Virginia, many students carried shotguns in their back windows to go hunting before or after school hours. At that time, nobody thought twice about it and nobody got shot. The only stipulation was that it couldn't be loaded. But you were allowed to carry the ammo for it in the glovebox.
Everyone has a God-given right to self preservation. Something that Liberals seem to find endlessly annoying.
I missed the "Emily
April 21, 2008 - 08:20 ET by motherbeltI missed the "Emily survived."
"He had two guns, he had the
April 21, 2008 - 08:10 ET by Killgrave"He had two guns, he had the element of surprise."
As usual, the media is exploiting a person's grief in pushing their liberal nonsense. What does having "two guns" have absolutely anything to do with it? The kid was armed to the teeth because he was acting out a sick "Matrix" fantasy. This is in fantasy land where wearing a firearm on every surface inch of your body and shooting a weapon in each hand somehow makes you more "dangerous".
Anyone with about 10 seconds of experience in a firing range knows how difficult it is to hit anything with ONE sidearm firmly gripped in BOTH hands and very carefully lined up. Wild Bill Hickock won gunfights by NOT spraying rounds about, but very carefully lining up his shot while the other guy blasted away.
Long story short, it doesn't matter how many guns or how much ammo a clown has on his body. It only takes one bullet to fix the situation.
So, in essence, this mother is saying
April 21, 2008 - 10:53 ET by 1MPTombshe would rather 32 students killed than a likely significantly lower number if someone in one of those classes had been allowed to defend themselves and their classmates? Wow. All I can say is wow. This whole massacre may not have taken place at all, had the authorities allowed concealed weapons to be on campus. The thought alone that there was a very good chance that his victims would shoot back, might have been a big deterent to this terrorist going on his rampage.
The school authorities can not only allow weapons at school, but they could offer handgun safety classes for an elective.
funny you should say that
April 21, 2008 - 16:53 ET by UndercoverConservativeI'm considered to be a "gun nut". I've owned a few semiauto handguns in my time as well as rifles. I can safely operate most current-issue "assault rifles" (at least in their civilian guises) as well as maintain them properly.
But, give me open sights and I can barely score a six inch group at 50 yards from the shoulder, standing and taking time to aim.
Now handguns, well, as Hollywood teaches, that's a different matter...yeah right. A ten inch group with my new-ish .45 at 50 *feet* is the best I've ever managed. I have trigger-jerk issues, mostly from lack of practice (maybe 100 rounds every seven months).
So these nutballs expect me to believe some twit who just picked up a pair of 9mm's is gonna go all Bruce Willis (Last Man Standing) and accurately take out moving targets with insta-kill CNS shots? And that he's gonna be so much better than me that there's no way I'll be able to drop him while he's *walking about assassinating kids* or *trying to kick open doors*?!
Somewhere in my ten-inch group is where he's gonna be. As soon as I find a position where there's nothing behind him. And that's assuming I'm over 20 feet away...
Just say No to "gangsta-style" sideways shooting, too!
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
Excuse an old man's senior moment---
April 21, 2008 - 10:59 ET by misterbillExcuse an old man's senior moment---but wasn't it on NB last week that I read an intervierw with a student who had been wounded in a campus shooting?? I read in disbelief becuse , again, I hope my memory is OK, she felt she would have been killed if she had a weapon??? I puzzled for a few minutes over her statement and then decided whoever thinks that way deserves whatever befalls them. Can anyone explain the logic of this????
I can explain it
April 21, 2008 - 12:51 ET by ironchefofmunchiesOk, here goes:
"If I HAD a gun, the gunman would probably shoot me FIRST. So I might have say a 50-50 shot of living."
"But if I DIDN'T have a gun, then the gunman would have no reason to shoot me first, and I'd have a 1 in 30 (assuming class size of 30 students) chance of being shot".
"So having a gun means I'd be more likely to be shot".
Now, I think this is wrong on several counts. But it's pretty easy to guess how these people think. And it all boils down to "I TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT ME".
How did that work out for those Katrina victims??? Don't ask that-these people NEVER LEARN.
Yes, that is the logic
April 21, 2008 - 16:18 ET by KhyrisYes, that is the logic used, but the missing point is this:
Let's be generous and say that campus concealed carries would only completely deter half of potential shooters. If only 1/2 of the students were carrying weapons (making them twice as likely to be shot, assuming the shooter knew who was carrying before-hand), your odds of being "the first one shot" would be EXACTLY the same.
However when you start looking at the odds of being the LAST one shot, that depends entirely on when the rampage ends. If the shooter has sufficient ammo, your odds are 30/30 that you'll be within the first 30 students shot. If a carrying student manages to take him down after the 6th shot, your odds are (obviously) only 6/30.
I'll take 20% odds over 100% odds of getting shot any day of the week, thanks!
It does seem that these nut
April 21, 2008 - 13:04 ET by deerjerkydaveIt does seem that these nut jobs who go on gun shooting rampages tend to go to highly populated gun free zones to do their evil acts, places like schools and malls.
I've read plenty of stories where concealed gun carriers were able to stop or subdue nut jobs who go on shooting rampages. It is not a matter of theory whether it would work to allow responsible people to carry a concealed firearm.
How to win an argument with the gun control types in 5 seconds
April 21, 2008 - 13:08 ET by ironchefofmunchiesJust ask them this:
"Give me ONE, JUST ONE example of a mass shooting that did NOT occur in a gun-free zone. Just ONE".
They will sit there and think for a minute, and then realize they can't think of any.
Then ask them: "Now give me the name of ONE concealed carry owner who instigated a mass shooting".
They won't answer that one either.
Of course then they will call you a "gun nut" or change the subject. Anything except admit that maybe (just maybe) they are wrong.
Gun control works a lot
April 21, 2008 - 13:11 ET by bassndudeGun control works a lot like mouse control. Point and click...:-)
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
I live in a very
April 21, 2008 - 14:23 ET by ahusserI live in a very restrictive carry state. (Maryland). Virginia, next door, is a right to carry, ccw state. I have never heard of any problems with a licensed to carry individual. They have been able to carry concealed for 10-15 years. If there had been the news and anti-gun lobby would be all over it in a heartbeat shouting and denouncing it to the rooftops. In reference to VT I seem to recall, I may be wrong, (and if I am, I apoligise in advance) but the students submitted to their execution and awaited their turn without trying anything even when it was plain the gunman was executing people one at a time. I am sure this submission was caused by overwhelming terror and denial but I would like to see some kind of mandatory defensive training trying to get students to react in these seemingly hopeless situations and fight for their lives even if it only consisted of running around the room dodging bullets.
Proud VT Grad FOR concealed weapons
April 21, 2008 - 13:47 ET by GeeAs one who lost 5 friends, classmates, and a professor as a result of the VT shootings, I am completely FOR allowing guns on campus. That shooter (his name isn’t worthy to even be mentioned) – like all who prey upon the defenseless at schools, churches, etc. – would have thought twice about killing people if he knew there was a chance for people to fight back, if there was a chance to get caught and rot in jail for the rest of his life. Instead, my friends were sitting ducks and that coward escaped justice by taking his own life.
Fear may paralyze SOME people when you have no other option for survival, but I for one, so long as I’m breathing, my will to live overpowers my fear and it drives me into action.
Guns don't kill people. People (in this case) with mental health issues kill people; people who sneak through the cracks of a broken mental health & court system more concerned with "privacy laws" and than keeping loonies out of public society .
that was hunting season in high school
April 21, 2008 - 16:43 ET by UndercoverConservativeGuys who were going to join their fathers after work on Friday night to get an early start on hunting Saturday morning often had rifles in their pickups in the high school parking lot. Woodshop often had guys making rifle and shotgun stocks and would require the stock be fitted to prove it was shaped right to fix to the action. The auto shop teacher even walked students thru cleaning/maintenace procedures a few times and offered advice on reloading, dealing with windage and elevation, and boresighting.
It's easy to say "that was a different time and a different world" but what does that actually *mean*? Same "world", only the attitudes have been changed, and I beleive they've been deliberately changed by groups and forces who do not have freedom's best interests in mind. Did things get better as the liberal mindset took over, or have they gotten worse?
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
Did I read that right?
April 22, 2008 - 09:53 ET by Edward LeeHaas: "He had two guns, he had the element of surprise. The fear that grips you when you're worried about your life is paralyzing." This is presented as a reason not to be armed? Everyone's suppose to recognize the hopelessness of the situation and just die? Armed assailants get shot all the time by prepared citizens. The cure to be taken by "the element of surprise" is a modicum of preparedness. A little goes a long way because the gunman is, after all, outnumbered. And, yes, fear can be paralyzing. That's what training is for. In my state, a Concealed Carry permit requires training. It's your higher brain functions that are paralyzed, not your practiced motor skills. Anyone who's deftly steered their way out of a serious auto accident knows this. Training also teaches you the psychological symptoms you must prepare for. From _The Basics of Personal Protection_ (NRA), "... you may lose track of time, and you may notice a reduction in your ability to distinguish color or depth. Because these are normal reactions to stress, you should not be alarmed ..."
SURPRISE!!
April 22, 2008 - 01:39 ET by gfrrman"Haas: "He had two guns, he had the element of surprise. The fear that grips you when you're worried about your life is paralyzing." The OTHER element of surprise is that others beside the perp have weapons. Can you say, "oops, didn't see that coming?" BAM!!! DRT! perp!!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
This Haas woman has zero
April 22, 2008 - 02:17 ET by NL207This Haas woman has zero credibility, knowledge, or experience on this topic. Why did NBC waste airtime on her meaningless views?
Any perp who is doing what Cho was doing isn't looking out for others who are also armed. I doubt seriously Cho would have even heard the shot that killed him had an armed student been in the mix of people he was slaughtering. Shut this stupid Haas woman up. She obviously is totally clueless about what the combat experience is really like.
I'll be happy to explain to Haas what it's like to draw a gun against people breaking into your house. I've done it. They literally freeze when they hear the breach close on a 12 guage. The hunters become the prey.