On Saturday, CNN ran an interview with Bill Cosby on "Larry King Live," which originally ran on Thursday October 18, in which the entertainer plugged his new book "Come on People: On the Path from Victims to Victors," about problems faced by America's black population. While Cosby talked about such conservative themes as personal responsibility, which in recent years he has been famous for discussing, the entertainer also demonstrated that he has not entirely made the trip over to the conservative side as he derided Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as "brother lite," repeatedly charging that Thomas "doesn't want to help anybody." Cosby also proclaimed that he "loves" far-left Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich. (Transcript follows)
Notably, Darryn "Dutch" Martin of Project 21 posted an open letter to Cosby demanding that he apologize for his comments regarding Clarence Thomas, comparing those remarks to the attacks Cosby himself had faced after expressing some conservative views during a commemoration three years ago of the 50th anniversary of "Brown v. Board of Education."
About halfway through the October 18 show, as he interviewed Cosby and co-author Dr. Alvin Poussaint of Harvard, King brought up Justice Thomas as he suggested there was a similarity in the views of Cosby and Thomas, to Cosby's apparent chagrin. King: "Judge Clarence Thomas, the conservative black judge on the United States Supreme Court, Bill, says that he went conservative because he thinks that the black responsibility is to himself. He doesn't need any help. He doesn't want any help. He doesn't need that pick-me-up."
Cosby jumped in: "And he doesn't want to help anybody."
Cosby was so fixated on this accusation that he repeated the same words four more times in response to several other statements or questions by King:
KING: He doesn't need affirmative action.
COSBY: And he doesn't want to help anybody.
Dr. ALVIN POUSSAINT, Harvard University: But he got affirmative action.
KING: He got affirmative action.
COSBY: He got plenty of, he got a whole lot of help, and now he doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: Do you think he's hypocritical?
COSBY: He doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: I know it. Do you think he's-
COSBY: He doesn't want to help anybody.
King then brought up more directly the apparent "partial" similarity in the views of Cosby and Thomas, prompting Cosby to distance himself from the conservative justice while calling him "brother lite."
KING: All right. But he says blacks don't need help, they can do it themselves. And that's partially what you're saying, isn't it?
COSBY: But, well, that's not, yes, see, partially is where you get into trouble if you're trying to put me in the room with Clarence Thomas, the brother lite.
KING, laughing: Brother lite.
COSBY: Larry-
KING: I'm just asking.
COSBY: No, no, no. I understand. I'm trying, and Alvin is trying to reach those people who feel abandoned, who feel for so many years -- generational, whatever -- that they can't do it.
After a commercial break, King asked Cosby if he was supporting Barack Obama for President. Cosby conveyed some dissatisfaction over the way the media covers Obama and Hillary Clinton, among other things complaining that Obama and Hillary are treated "like some anomaly," and that the media spend too much time covering these candidates at the expense of others. Cosby brought up his "love" for Kucinich as he challenged King to guess his name while pronouncing the "ch" sound from the Democratic Congressman's name: "There's a guy in Ohio I happen to love. Ch, ch, you can't finish his name?"
After King took a moment to guess since "Kucinich" starts with a "k" and not a "ch," Cosby continued, realizing that he had mistakenly pronounced the "ch" instead of the "k": "Well, okay. Kucinich. All right. I love what he says."
Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Thursday October 18 "Larry King Live," which was rebroadcast on Saturday November 3:
LARRY KING: Judge Clarence Thomas, the conservative black judge on the United States Supreme Court, Bill, says that he went conservative because he thinks that the black responsibility is to himself. He doesn't need any help. He doesn't want any help. He doesn't need that pick me up.
BILL COSBY: And he doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: He doesn't need affirmative action.
COSBY: And he doesn't want to help anybody.
Dr. ALVIN POUSSAINT, Harvard University: But he got affirmative action.
KING: He got affirmative action.
COSBY: He got plenty of, he got a whole lot of help, and now he doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: Do you think he's hypocritical?
COSBY: He doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: I know it. Do you think he's-
COSBY: He doesn't want to help anybody.
KING: All right. But he says blacks don't need help, they can do it themselves. And that's partially what you're saying, isn't it?
COSBY: But, well, that's not, yes, see, partially is where you get into trouble if you're trying to put me in the room with Clarence Thomas, the brother lite.
KING, laughing: Brother lite.
COSBY: Larry-
KING: I'm just asking.
COSBY: No, no, no. I understand. I'm trying, and Alvin is trying to reach those people who feel abandoned, who feel for so many years -- generational, whatever -- that they can't do it.
After a commercial break, the program continued:
KING: In this atmosphere, Dr. Poussaint and Bill, does Barack Obama represent a kind of, for black people, a hope?
POUSSAINT: Well, I think obviously he does, and he's rallied a lot of black people behind him, and black people are contributing to his campaign, including, you know, upper and middle class black people. So I think, yes, that's important and, symbolically and otherwise, because it shows just as we get people as Secretary of State and these other positions that we can go to the very top.
KING: Are you supporting him, Bill?
COSBY: I want to say that it's unfair -- do you ask white people this question?
KING: No, I'm-
COSBY: I'm asking you -- I'm not raising my voice, I'm asking, have you-
KING: Oh, I ask white people if they support Obama, sure.
COSBY: No, no, have you asked them, seriously? Because I get people, they ask me this, and then it's sort of like those other people are not running. I want to know why this fellow especially is brought up in such a special way.
KING: I'll tell you-
COSBY: And here's the question I'm asking. How many Americans in media really take him seriously, or do they look at him like some prize brown baby like a-
KING: I think he's taken seriously by most of American media. He proves it every time he talks, whether you're for him or not.
COSBY: Look, I see journalists, whether it's CNN or whatever, and they talk about him in a manner that I feel says, well, okay, what did he say, and how special was he for what he said and how hard does he have to work? Everybody else, nobody else is held, those four Republicans that didn't show up at Morgan State happen to be more accountable in terms of what they didn't do, especially for the brown people, as well. What is it that they're not saying about those four guys that didn't show up? They're not saying that we didn't, we as black people, didn't vote for them. That's silly. Because if you need votes and if you want votes, and brown people are waiting to ask you some questions and the black people are waiting to ask you, and Asian people are waiting to ask you questions, how could you not show up? And so who is it you're trying to appease that you feel happens to be worth more than the eight percent vote that you might have gotten by standing up and answering some questions?
KING: Just as Hillary has changed the landscape for women in that there's a woman with a chance to be President, Obama has changed the landscape for blacks.
COSBY: But I think it's stupid.
KING: But it's normal for any minority or underdog, if there were a major Jewish candidate for President, many Jews would want to support him, just for the feeling of pride. That's understandable, isn't it?
COSBY: That's not the point. My point is, he's treated, and so is Hillary treated, like some anomaly. Can the person do it? Of course. Look at the education. Look at where they're coming from. And do I, if I support him, if I don't support him, if I support her, the time between the Clintons and Barack Obama, the people making their decision on who they're going to vote for, there's a guy in Ohio I happen to love. Ch, ch, you can't finish his name?
KING: Ohio?
COSBY: Running for President. Ch.
KING: Dennis Kucinich.
COSBY: Well, okay. Kucinich. All right. I love what he says.
KING: He's a good little guy.
COSBY: I love what he-
KING: He's got a good book out.
COSBY: I love what he says. And-
KING: Let me get a break. And we'll come right back.
COSBY, in a joking voice: What are you doing? Ch.
KING: We'll be right back with Cosby and Poussaint. The book is "Come on People." Destined for a best-seller. Don't go away.
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}}---> Cosby "lite"
November 5, 2007 - 01:03 ET by Cool ArrowIf you've watched any of these interviews Cosby has done lately, you come to the conclusion he's suffering from something debilitating. Having trouble keeping a train of thought.
IMHO Dissing Thomas was wrong, and out of character.
I agree. Its as if he is
November 5, 2007 - 03:05 ET by GrammyI agree.
Its as if he is arguing both sides of the same issue simultaneously. He sometimes seems to be flip flopping between Bill Cosby and the "Just Us Brothers"
Grammie
Agreed, he seems to be
November 5, 2007 - 06:21 ET by motherbeltAgreed, he seems to be slipping a bit. But he's got the "brother" thing down. One can't be black unless one subsribes to the required attitudes. "Brother lite", indeed. In other words, he doesn't rule in favor of blacks often enough.
Um, who the heck is Thomas
November 5, 2007 - 02:59 ET by Warner Todd HustonUm, who the heck is Thomas charged with "helping," again?
I wasn't aware his job was "helping" anyone with anything!?
shucks. The Rocky
November 5, 2007 - 03:18 ET by wiwfshucks.
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
delete
November 5, 2007 - 06:15 ET by motherbeltdouble
My thought exactly, WTH. It
November 5, 2007 - 06:16 ET by motherbeltMy thought exactly, WTH. It drives me nuts when people talk about the
Supreme Court having a duty to stand up for this or that group. It's
duty is to interpret the law according to the Constitution, not to
"help" anyone. I read it put very well somewhere (paraphrasing): If the
law is on the side of the big corporation as opposed to an individual,
then it's the duty of the Court to rule in favor of the big
corporation.
In other words: It's the law, stupid.
Those were my very thoughts
November 5, 2007 - 07:15 ET by USA4freedomThose were my very thoughts as well. It not the “job’ of the
court to help.. anyone.
The “job” of the Supreme court is to look at laws to see if
they are constitutional.
Not write law, not rule from the bench.
I wonder about Bill Cosby, I thought his belief was: hard
work, education, fathers take care of your family. That no one should be
waiting for handouts.
Now.. its Thomas is not helping out the brothers..??
Maybe it’s the cool sunglasses that every one wears indoors.
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Wouldn't you love to see
November 5, 2007 - 08:27 ET by msh1973Wouldn't you love to see Cosby and Thomas debate one another? Well, it wouldn't even be a fair debate, Justice Thomas would clean Cosby's clock.
Time change has me up
November 5, 2007 - 08:24 ET by msh1973Time change has me up early, anyway...what is up with the sunglasses, he is wearing them on all the shows? Cosby does have it right when it comes to the culture that is being pushed on our kids, but come on, he is still a liberal, no doubt about that.
I remember...
November 5, 2007 - 10:08 ET by dervish... an old Eddie Murphy routine, based on Cosby's dissing him for being so foul-mouthed on stage. Murphy said he talked to Richard Pryor about it, and Pryor said, "Tell Cosby to have a Coke, and a smile, and shut the f*** up."
I wish Cosby had specified
November 5, 2007 - 11:09 ET by balboaI wish Cosby had specified what he meant by Thomas doesn't want to help anybody.
We can only
November 5, 2007 - 11:38 ET by mattmWe can only guess...
Maybe he never holds the elevator for anyone...
Cosby
November 5, 2007 - 12:22 ET by chris_gillI think most conservatives are making a mistake as it relates to Bill cosby's message and Bill Cosby the person and his politics.
First, conservatives, most of whom are White, are focusing on Cosby's message of personal responsibility to improve one's quality of life. Because this is part of the conservative principle, conservatives slapped the "Conservative" label on Cosby in toto. Unfortunately, one would have to look at the complete context of Cosby's message of personal responsibility, vis a vie, as a quality trait of the African American community that allowed them to overcome slavery, Jim Crow, and racism. It is a practical application of a principle that is devoid of a political ideology, that has already taken into consideration the fact that society (i.e. White Liberals and Conservatives) may not always give one a fair shake soley for the reason of their color.
The political principle of personal responsibility of Conservativism, often minimizes this point. I have seen cases where churches have collected donations to help a family, but intentionally witheld the name of the family (who happended to be Black) because the members of the congregation thought "if the parents showed more personal responsibility, they would not need donations" and would likely not help them. However, there was no such sentiment as it came to giving to Whites who were in the same predicament of losing a job during the recession of '03. It didn't make them racist... But their politics failed to consider variables outside of the neat equations that often make up political ideologies.
Secondly, Bill Cosbyt has always been a liberal. He has donated over $50 Million of his own money to Black colleges, organizations, etc. to help Blacks acheive a better quality of life through education. I would consider him a classical Black liberal circa 1965 like MLK Jr. In that case, politics plays a role, but personal responsility plays a more significant role. In the present case, Cosby feels Blacks cannot get any more out of the political system than they already do, and the focus should return to the model of "Family, Character, Good Judgment". When it affects other people, its politics. When it hits closer to home, it's a life principle.
Third, White Conservatives should not make the mistake of confusing their approval of Clearance Thomas with the failure of Blacks to approve of Thomas' record as an African American with a high profile. Prior to getting to on Supreme Court, Thomas was an unknown in the community. He never supported Black organizations, universities, etc. Considering he grew up in Jim Crow Georgia, that is significant. And he never felt that his position as a Black with political/social stature should compel him to help other hard working Blacks who were trying to climb higher as he had done. This is what distinguishes him from Cosby, or Dr. Rice (a conservative who understands that Affirmative Action is not about qualifications, but access to a network fo opportunity), or Colin Powell, or Roy Innis. They are the true role models, unlike Jackson and Sharpton, because their success came outside of the "Whore-ified" political process.
Maybe other Blacks worked hard like Thomas, but were only able to have a GPA of 3.4 instead of 3.9 or 4.0. They weren't going to Yale with a 3.4. And if they lived in the South like Thomas, they weren't going to UGA, Ga. Tech, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi or any other White school, because they did not accept Balcks. And if they did, would one really expect Blacks to pay money to go to there (back to the issue of considering not getting a fair shake). What were their options? Black colleges, or schools up north or out west that were considerbaly more expensive. Who would help defray the costs? The United Negro College fund, the Urban League, and the NAACP (currently a shell of its former self) would provide scholarships.
Finally, Cosby has never been in the Jackson/Sharpton mold. He is more solutions oriented and his personal wealth is actually tied to talents that do not include quasi-extortion. He is currently funding the education of a dozen Black males in various colleges across the country, some of which cost 20K/year. If Thomas would help one person person through a cheap city college, or would have traditionally taken a more active role in the Black community, it would be different. He has not. He has been a hard worker and deserve his success. But his role in the community has always been non-existent. Considering what he has witnessed, the active role his peers have taken (regardless of political affiiliation), and his non-involvement, Cosby has every right to call him on it.
Great post Chris. Very
November 5, 2007 - 13:13 ET by JasonCGreat post Chris. Very insightful.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
"...the fact that society
November 5, 2007 - 14:02 ET by mattm"...the fact that society (i.e. White Liberals and Conservatives) may not always give one a fair shake soley for the reason of their color."
Society = White Liberals and conservatives????
Are you saying that Bill Cosby and Clarence Thomas, or the millions of other non-whites are not part of society?
Are you one of those who believes that only whites can be racist? (I have been discriminated against because of my white male status - so don't try to tell me that only the whites have the power to discriminate!)
Can you not see the inherent racism in the above quote of yours? Or in Cosby's designation of Thomas as "Brother Lite"?
This is the exact mentality that is pushed by the Jacksons an the Sharptons, and now also apparently by Bill Cosby.
It's sad. It's sad because it's political. If you take the politics away, the "civil rights" movement would be hailing Thomas as a hero.
Your post misses my point,
November 5, 2007 - 14:14 ET by chris_gillYour post misses my point, as you made it about you ( a White Male) and not about two peers who grew up in the same society. It was a comparison of one's involvement in the Black community (Cosby) and one's lack of involvement in the Black Community (Thomas). Period.
As to your question of society in general, considering Whites made up the majority of the population at the time in question, and they would primarily fall into two catagories (Liberal/Conservative), my remarks are correct.
Yes Blacks can me racist, but that point is moot as it relates to the purpose of my post concerning the involvement within the Black community of two Blacks. Cosby's designation of "Brother Lite" is because Thomas WHILE AN ESTEEMED JUDGE WHO SHOULD BE LAUDED FOR HIS INTELLIGENCE AND SUCCESS, has never been active in Black community. Compare that to the involvement of Black liberals and conservatives such as Roy and Nigel Innis, Colin Powell, Rice, etc.
Stop making it about you
When you equate "society"
November 5, 2007 - 14:20 ET by mattmWhen you equate "society" with only whites, you are making it about me, and every other person who looks at the "content of someone's character, not the color of their skin," to paraphrase a person who was striving for the HUMAN community, not the black community or the white community.
Stop making it about race when it's about politics.
When Cosby speaks of
November 5, 2007 - 19:32 ET by chris_gillWhen Cosby speaks of "returning to those values we (Blacks as a collective) had during the worst of times for Black in this country", it is implied the "society" in question was made up of what race and gender. White males.
As for your quote of King, its empty without context. Because while some White liberal looks at the lack of Blacks in certain positions of power as the need for a policy to put more unqualified Blacks in that position (if they are liberal Blacks), some White conservatives look at the lack of Blacks in the same position as evidence there are no qualified Blacks (Unless they are conservative), and once a qualified Blacks shows up, they will get the position.
Both have a tendency to assume a lack of qualification is the number one factor. But what is qualified? Graduate degrees, JD's, MBA, MD's. Blacks get those too. Is it experience? Does mentoring play a factor? How can I get the last two, if I don't get in the door? What gets me in the door? Affirmative Action. Which is the same case as Thomas, and every other African American in a place of power.
Cosby is referring to a time when Blacks were graduating from enginerring, law, and medical schools with little to no opportunity of getting into the mainstream absent an affirmative action policy. And since Affirmative Action 30-40 years ago was a central issue to Blacks, Blacks including Thomas benefitted from it, and even today race is the first point of focus in a job interview, it is about Race.
Your failure to understand this is not due to some flaw on your part. It may mean your lack of understanding of a complex issue such as human frailty in overcoming prejudices/misconceptions/an initial inclination to identify with those like you in some way may hinder you from considering a variable outside of a pat political equation.
Which is probaly why Bush put Powell and Rice in the positions he did.
He felt...he said
November 5, 2007 - 20:31 ET by acumenWhat gets me in the door? Affirmative Action. Which is the same case as Thomas, and every other African American in a place of power.
And since Affirmative Action 30-40 years ago was a central issue to Blacks, Blacks including Thomas benefitted from it, and even today race is the first point of focus in a job interview, it is about Race.
I disagree and rather than be so disingenuous as to speak for Thomas, or others for that matter, I prefer to let them speak for themselves finding them much better suited for the task.
Justice Thomas in a fairly recent interview with Buisiness Week (link provided upon request):
Interviewer - Why do you think some people are so eager to cast you as a beneficiary of affirmative action?
Thomas - "That was the creation of the politicians, the people with a lot of mouth and nothing to say and your industry (the media). They had a story and everything had to fit into their story. It discounts other people's achievements. It's so discouraging to see the fraudulent renditions of very complicated and different lives of people who were struggling in a new world for them. Everything becomes affirmative action. There wasn't some grand plan. I just showed up."
In an effort to halt any silly notion one may have of telling me what I think, I will save the trouble. The above are Justice Thomas' words, not mine. I don't have a donkey in this "race".
I've always seen Cosby
November 5, 2007 - 13:08 ET by misterbee241I've always seen Cosby coming off as arrogant and condescending.
If he could be half the man "Brother Lite" is Cosby could talk.
It appears the "path to
November 5, 2007 - 18:01 ET by ConservativeRexIt appears the "path to victors" took one more detour.
Bill Cosby knows he won't
November 6, 2007 - 22:58 ET by 4arrowBill Cosby knows he won't be with us much longer.
Without the shades, his blood red eye will betray him.
Others have gone before you, we will certainly follow good man.
Keep God laughing
Bill Cosby if you keep God laughing then I can slink by.