Whether from a combination of the loyal Republicans and the Hillary supporters, or from simple math, I believe that John McCain ultimately will look like the more substantial candidate.
I can't get away from the notion that there is no "there" there with Obama. All rhetoric and zero direction or substance.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Paul (Rom. 13:1)
I voted Obama and I don't even think it will be close. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see how McCain can win when even people like me who hope that he does, can't get the least bit excited about it and won't be contributing time or money to his campaign.
I have given to the RNC and am going to try and find out about some Senate and or House races to get involved with.
I refuse to give any money to the RNC because they'll just spend it on RINO's. And we don't really have a prayer of retaking the House or Senate anyway.
So, I've given money to McCain who's definitely not my first choice, but he's right on Iraq and terrorism, and I've read Michael Yon's book. It's obvious that Obama hasn't.
Do I have problems with McCain? You bet I do. But, frankly, I have bigger problems with my choices for Congress and Senate. They aren't getting my vote. I'm seriously considering voting for President and for re-electing my fantastic governor (Mitch Daniels -- (R-IN)), and leaving the rest of my ballot blank.
Anyway, I said McCain because I've been watching the EV projections. The only way Obama wins is by spending every dollar he has and then some. He's an awful candidate with awful policies, but he's a money machine. It's not inconceivable that he'll be able to outspend McCain by as much as 3-1 in every battleground state. You can buy a lot of votes with that kind of money.
Because the vote of a "non-enthusiastic" person counts exactly the same as the vote of a rabid supporter with bumper stickers and signs and shirts and hats and buttons and a second mortgage used to contribute to a campaign.
I'd say that if McCain has the non-enthusiastic vote locked up, he'll win.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Makes sense to me. By the time they got around to holding the primaries in Texas, McCain already had the Republican nomination locked up, and I wanted to vote for a Democrat for Sheriff against another Democrat who was opposing him. As long as I had a Democrat ballot in front of me anyway, I voted against Hillary Clinton.
Dee and Rob, you're both right and I have to confess to a HUGE amount of discouragement and actual fear. Hence my tag-line below: a major note-to-self.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Paul (Rom. 13:1)
I bought a history book a few years back, which documented the era from the 1960s to the 1990s.
It said the energy crisis wasn't Carter's fault. But it also said that Reagan was to blame for the increased financial gap and the growth of big businesses in the 1980s.
John McCain got only 47% of the vote in the Republican Primary in his home state of Arizona.
Since clinching the nomination in early March, McCain has received only 65% - 79% of the Republican primary votes, even though all of his opponents dropped out, stopped campaigning, or removed their names from the ballot.
"InTrade" - one of the top two political betting websites in the world, where people wager real money, their own money, on the outcome of the race - rates Obama a 59%-36% favorite over McCain.
In the last two years, "InTrade" gamblers have never given McCain more than a 40% chance of victory, except for a few days when the "Whitey" tape rumor hit its peak.
So what is your point. Until now all the Presidents in recent momory have been governors or such. The last senator elected was LBJ. So its been over 44 years since a senator was elected President. I say McCain will take the Presidency because Obama is a walking time bomb.
While neither one is the best candidate for their party, its all we've got left. I think that America will see that Obama is as hollow as roll of toliet paper and about as useful once all the paper's gone. No substance. McCain is a pretty liberal Republican, but he's our last shot, but he stands firm as a man of honor and that is admirable. So while I don’t agree with McCain on some issues, I think he is American’s best shot at victory in Iraq and victory at squishing the liberal crazies and their agenda.
the people posting and their beliefs are correct. As some of the other articles on NBers allude bho is a much better and more powerful speaker. Of course, the old failing media only covers his good speeches, not his "I see dead people" gaffes.
The MSM also neglect to mention he 57 states remark and refuse to chide him for his speech on clinging to guns and religion, which we know he doesn't cling to a religion as he walked out of his after 20 years because it was damaging to his campaign. Wus!
Barackoe Bama might run into bigger troubles if he doesn't get his gaffes in check. Lately, it seems like that is a tall challenge for him to achieve, as he doesn't seem completely aware that everything he says is now being reviewed with a fine tooth comb.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
IF his gaffes received more than a passing notice (if that) - look at the Rezko business. If a Republican had been involved, it would have been non-stop, 24/7 coverage linking them to Rezko. With BHO, who actually had financial ties with Mrs. Rezko in purchasing his home, no mention...or if mentioned, momentary at best!
In fact... if this had been a repub candidate in the reverse when this Rezko story came out, he would of been out of the race within one week... to put it mildly with the 24/7 leftist msm spin cycle.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
He is just barely behind with the deep division in the party. The media, the clinton machine, and the democrat faithful all campaining for him will push him over the edge.
I think they will. Privately...in the shadows. They won't have their fingerprints on it, but they'll be behind it. They'll leak stories, they'll have surrogates draw inferences. But they'll maintain the necessary 6 Degrees of Separation to allow Hillary the plausible deniability to run again in 2012.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Mrs. Clinton will resume her senatorial duties! Her New York constituents must be real happy with her keeping her word about being their senator, no desire for anything else. "Vote for me - I'll stick with you" RIGHT!
I can't believe they elected her in the first place (okay, with Bill Clinton's pardons, I can understand) much less that she was re-elected! I really gave New Yorkers a little more credit than that!
Are you alleging that Sens. Obama and/or McCain are paying more attention to their state contituents than Sen. Clinton? If so, do you have some documentation to back that?
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
Every time I talk to my brother in upstate New York, I ask him if Hillary has brought any jobs to the upstate as she promised in her campaigns. It always get's a laugh out of him. Then he will tell me how many people are abandoning NY and moving to other states for jobs.
McCain has already suggested that he won't "attack" Obama (whatever that means), and since he's failed to make an adequate case for his own candidacy so far (and seems unwilling to make a better one in the future), I don't see where he gets the necessary votes to win this thing. Unless he starts giving the conservatives something to believe in, he will have to depend on Obama imploding or Clinton privately undermining Obama to have any chance. And a President McCain with heavy majorities in the House and Senate? How's that a victory?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
I think one item people are leaving out that will hurt McCain is the lack of issues at the state level.
Karl Rove is brilliant... and during the 2000 and especially the 2004 elections, he made sure gay marriage (sanctity of marriage) amendments were on as many state ballots as possible.
That brought conservatives out in HUGE numbers to vote on an issue very near and dear to their hearts... and while there 'protecting marriage,' Bush was able to benefit from their presidential votes.
There's not issue there that I've heard of to galvanize republicans this cycle. Combine that with the left's anti-war sentiment and it's hard to make a case for McCain... again, unless Obama screws up royaly.
Looking at the voter turnout numbers for dems in the primary is daunting as well. I saw some numbers where it was 2-1 for dems over repubs.
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
There's certainly an element of truth to your position. Was it Tip O'Neill who first said "all politics is local"?
Were McCain not the nominee, I could see the issue of illegal immigration coming up on a lot of ballot initiatives...especially in blue collar battleground states like Ohio and Michigan (assuming there's much lingering resentment towards Obama regarding the Delegate seating issue). But McCain has effectively placed himself alongside Obama on this issue, so such initiatives would be unlikely to benefit him.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
The only issue I can think of that would have come out would be affirmative action. Two years ago in Michigan (and several other states), affirmative action laws concerning college admissions and gov't jobs were struck down overwhelmingly.
Given who the dem. candidate is, however, I don't know how well even that issue would go over right now.
This is going to be an uphill battle for McCain, no doubt. Best shot he has, IMO, is to take as many moderate votes as possible. I honestly think he should run as much to the center as he can. Moderates already love him, and conservatives will never vote for Obama before him.
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
I disagree with you regarding who McCain should appeal to. Obama's base is energized. They are excited about voting for him. I think the moderate vote is going to be a wash...McCain is very popular with moderate Republicans, but conservative Republicans resent the moderates and, by extension, McCain. Meanwhile, self-described moderates like Tim Russert and Chris Matthews have gone from trumpeting McCain's maverick virtues to talking up Obama's youthful energy. McCain's primary difficulty is that he has no support at the conservative base. With a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate, many conservatives will see little difference between a McCain and an Obama Presidency...McCain will effectively be neutered and the party will be blamed for his failures. I think the prevailing attitude among conservatives will be "if the country is going to hell anyway, why not let it be on their watch"...sometimes it takes a Jimmy Carter to appreciate a Ronald Reagan.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Quit. And give somebody (anybody) the opportunity to run in his place. :-)
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
What would happen if he did that? I know it's not likely but if we wanted to live in a dream world temporarily, where he did quit, how would the new candidate be chosen?
Before the convention, I think it would be a mad scramble... anyone and everyone throwing their hats in hoping for the state delegations to give them the nod when the convention rolls around.
After the convention... I have no idea what the precedent would be if a nominated candidated pulled out/died. Would it go to the nominated VP candidate? Anyone know?
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
I was only 1/2 joking when I wrote that he should quit. McCain has a real problem. He is not popular with Conservatives and he ran his primary campaign as if he didn't want or need Conservative support. If he stays the same course, Conservatives won't vote for him. If he shifts, he'll lose a bit of that "straight shooter", "maverick" profile that has gotten him this far...he'll lose some Moderates and Liberals, but he might not gain as many Conservatives as a maneuver like that might suggest. I believe Conservatives will always be suspicious of him and his motives and will see any shift right on his part as an inauthentic pander for votes...he may run as a Conservative, but most believe he'll govern as a Liberal. He's painted himself into a real corner.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Veeps are not nominated, they are chosen by the presidential nominee. That said, I have no idea how they would reconcile a post convention pull out or death. Possibly the second place finisher in the primaries?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
It's only a few more months until we finally become The Peoples Republic of America. We'll finally be able to enjoy all those wonderful things they had in the USSR: long lines to get to anything; nothing there when you get to the end of the line; $12 a gallon gas, if you can find any; $10 a gallon milk, if you can find any; free health care, if you can find any; etc., etc., etc. Jimmy Carter will be looked upon fondly ten years from now, considering the state of affairs at that future time.
It looks like McCain has the advantage to win the general election against Obama, but if McCain wins, he can't be sworn in because, as a Panamanian born naturalized citizen, he doesn't meet Constitutional muster to be POTUS.
So, my understanding is that McCain's vice-presidential pick would actually become President and at this point we have no idea who that will be.
An Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization
First Congress, Session 2, Chapter 3
March 26, 1790
SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof, on application to any common law court of record, in any one of the states wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such court, that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law, to support the constitution of the United States, which oath or affirmation such court shall administer; and the clerk of such court shall record such application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a citizen of the United States. And the children of such persons so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, That no person heretofore proscribed by any state, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an act of the legislature of the state in which such person was proscribed.
While it is true that this statute was a adopted in 1790, it was repealed in 1795 because it was determined that it was unconstitutional.
--- Communist vs. Statist '08
That's really the key here. Whoever fills the VP slots on either side will make or break them. McCain is going to need a strong conservative at his side to counteract some of his liberal policies. As I mentioned in another article, if everyone was voting based on substance, the moderates would mostly swing McCain's way. Obama is getting the racist vote and that of the teary-eyed bleeding heart liberal. I think there's actually a good chance he can win with that alone. If Obama picks a decent centrist democrat, he will be able to get the rest of his party who can see through the empty and dangerous policies he is promising to employ.
For this to be an election with any merit, McCain will need to stick to everything he's been saying so far (as much as i dislike many of his policies, I'd hate it more if he started flip-flopping.) Obama, on the other hand, will have to put up a realistic platform and start having his ideas criticized properly.
but I am going to assume they were both US citizens at the time they gave birth to him. So, to use me as an example, you're saying if my parents were on vacation in France and gave birth to me in a French hospital, I would not be a "Natural Born Citizen?" What about the children of illegal immigrants? Some kid born to two illegal immigrants in some back-alley in NY has more right to the Presidency thatn a Vietnam Veteran POW? And I hope I don't come off as flippant, I am not being sarcastic, I'm really curious as to the answer to this question.
While we must remember that this disability relates to holding the office of Presidentalone, and not to any other rights, you are correct.
The 14th Amendment limits citizenship to two kinds, those who are born in the US (natural), and those who are foreign born (naturalized) regardless of parentage.
Before the 14th Amendment was adopted, the Slave States were successful in claiming that African born slaves had no right to citizenship and since their children had not citizen parents, they were not citizens either regardless of the fact that they were "natural born" on US soil. The SCOTUS upheld this notion and the 14th Amendment later overturned it.
Now on the other hand citizenship by virtue of parental citizenship (blood) being given to children is not applicable in the US because the US had adopted the precedents of English Common law for US law which at the time did not recognised blood as a right for citizenship, but rather birth upon sovereign British (later Ameican) soil.
Of course, Europe did have the blood citizenship system, but that system is foreign to the US for legal purposes.
Since then Congress has many times passed laws that allow people to obtain US citizenship for various reasons and even obtain citizenship "at" birth for some reasons, but the courts have always said that those exceptions always fall into the category of "naturalized" citizenship, not "natural born" citizenship, which has the opposite meaning.
Congress doesn't have (and cannot give itself) the power to pass a law bestowing "natural born" cititizenship upon anyone because the "natural born" requirement is written into the US Constituion which can only be changed by an amendment duly ratified by a majority of the several States.
So if such an amendment is adopted in the future, only then will we have changed the law regarding who can be President.
And the true test of such a claim as yours is through the courts. If some of the principles behind the idea of natural born are fuzzy then th courts can clarify. If you or others believe so strongly then bring it on and I shall see your claim go down in flames. After all SCOTUS was to make sure all laws did not violate the constitution.
I am becoming more and more convinced by the legal arguments making their way around the web that with the current stock of originalists on the SCOTUS, McCain will lose his eligibility case, but when that ruling may come down becomes a politically chaotic wild card. For example:
If McCain is in office for a year and then ruled ineligible, would that nullify all of his vetoes and executive orders?
Or, if McCain is ruled ineligible after he is nominated at the convention, who would be the GOP nominee? One of the other candidates, or McCain's VP pick? What if McCain hasn't made a VP pick by that time? Is there a scenario where the Congress in assembly has to elect the President? If it's a Dem Congress, that can't be good.
Or, if McCain is ruled ineligible before the convention, who will his delegates vote for at the convention, and will they get to vote at all in a first round?
It looks like McCain has the advantage to win the general election against Obama, but if McCain wins, he can't be sworn in because, as a Panamanian born naturalized citizen, he doesn't meet Constitutional muster to be POTUS. It really is too bad for you that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU ARE BORN: ONCE YOU ARE BORN TO TWO U.S. CITIZENS, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE BORN, YOU ARE A U.S. CITIZEN. THE END.
If this is NOT the case:
1) Why doesn't the USAF have a operation - for the sake of argument, let's call it Operation Patriot Stork - where the expectant spouses of U.S. military personnel, diplomats, and other government employees are flown home to ensure their children's U.S. citizenship?
2) On my sister's birth certificate, it says that she is a U.S. citizen. It indicates ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about her being naturalized or her being a German citizen. YET, as McCain was born in the Canal Zone in Panama to a military family, my sister was likewise born in Germany to a military family. Why is this?
No, you simply will not beat or counter my direct personal experience both with my sister's circumstance or that of many other brats I have known throughout my life.
Answers that indicate you lose: whining "you're in denial", or failing to answer in your very own words. It's critical thinking time.
I'm no McCain fan either. I am only voting for him because the Socialist alternative is FAR worse. I am voting AGAINST Socialsim rather than FOR an idiot. Oppose him ALL YOU WANT. But you need to GROW UP and look at something substantive for a change.
I could swear I heard all this bogus argument
several times before. As the link below shows, the issue is not citizenship, it is birthplace that is at issue. Lets not try to confuse people by redirecting the argument away from birthplace to citizenship.
Whenever unsane uses the word citizen, he is very careful not to explain what kind of citizenship he means; natural or naturalized. He wants you to think that he has some sort of logic that proves that any kind of citizen is eligible for the Presidency, but as any school child knows, the Presidency can't fall on a foreign born citizen. McCain is a foreign born citizen. He was born in the Republic of Panama thousands of miles from US soil. The citizenship of McCain's parents is irrelevant, because they are not running for President, McCain is.
You know, if you spent 1/10th the time campaigning for your Populist (and very unconservative) Hero that you do word-gaming and refusing to answer very basic simple questions, your Populist Hero just might be the nominee.
I could swear I heard all this bogus argument
several times before. I could swear I have heard your idiotic one several thousand times before too; and because you elect to waste so much of your time and efforts here, you FAIL to advance your own cause. As the link below shows, the issue is not citizenship, it is birthplace that is at issue. AND THAT DOES NOT MATTER. WHEN THE PARENTAGE OF THE CHILD IS TWO U.S. CITIZENS, BIRTHPLACE DOES NOT MATTER. It isn't my fault that you are an idiot and can't understand what thousands of military families understand COLD. Lets not try to confuse people by redirecting the argument away from birthplace to citizenship. AND THAT DOES NOT MATTER. WHEN THE PARENTAGE OF THE CHILD IS TWO U.S. CITIZENS, BIRTHPLACE DOES NOT MATTER. It isn't my fault that you are an idiot and can't understand what thousands of military families understand COLD.
There are some horrible AFN commercials you need to be exposed to, not unlike the way Alex was treated to horrifying imagery in A Clockwork Orange. They as well will explain the concept COLD.
Whenever unsane uses the word citizen, he is very careful not to explain what kind of citizenship he means; natural or naturalized. Word-game, word-game, word-game, word-game, word-game. I will explain this to you again, because you are such a blithering f#!%ing idiot. My mother is naturalized; she was born in Germany to German citizens, immigrated to the United States later, and became a naturalized U.S. citizen. Ironically, this naturalized U.S. citizen, then married to a U.S. citizen by both birth and soil, was living in Germany when they had their daughter; my oldest sister. She was born at a military hospital in Germany. Strangely, in sipte of ALL of your word-gaming, her birth certificate - which I have SEEN and READ REPEATEDLY - says that she is a U.S. citizen, PERIOD. Not "natural", not "naturalized", NOTHING. U.S. CITIZEN. YOU IDIOT. He wants you to think that he has some sort of logic that proves that any kind of citizen is eligible for the Presidency, but as any school child knows except those educated in public schools where they arn't taught the Constitution, and clearly you weren't either, the Presidency can't fall on a foreign born citizen. UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, McCAIN, LIKE MILLIONS OF CHILDREN BORN TO MILITARY FAMILIES, WAS BORN A U.S. CITIZEN. THE END. McCain is a foreign born citizen. INCORRECT. HIS PARENTS WERE U.S. CITIZENS. THEREFORE HE WAS BORN ONE. THE END. He was born in the Republic of Panama thousands of miles from US soil. The citizenship of McCain's parents is irrelevant except that it is 100% relevant because THEY were U.S. citizens, therefore making him one AT BIRTH whether you like it or not., because they are not running for President, McCain is. Huh?
Now SHUT UP AND ANSWER MY VERY BASIC AND SIMPLE QUESTIONS ABOVE, IDIOT.
I will even add another:
The United States military is crawling with legal officers, on every base around the world. If what you say is true, why NOT A PEEP from them on this issue? How come NONE of them have briefed expectant mothers to head home to the United States to give birth? And why hasn't the United States military set up a program like my theoretical Operation Patriot Stork in response?
Hell, another:
Why aren't the State Department, the military, and other government agencies STRUGGLING to recruit people with that restriction? Families would be very reticent to the notion of overseas assignments if what you say is remotely true.
Why aren't the State Department, the military, and other government
agencies STRUGGLING to recruit people with that restriction? Families
would be very reticent to the notion of overseas assignments if what
you say is remotely true.
Since the "natural born" clause in the US Constitution only effects those who might someday run for President. The Pentagon and the State Department don't see it as vitally important. But they also don't want to scare people away from joining the armed services or diplomatic corps because of the issue for exactly the reasons you state above. It would be bad for morale and too expensive to work around, so they choose to ignore it in hopes that no one will open that can of worms, kind of like their "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Instead of attempting to shoot the messenger, your energy would be better utilized in getting a Constitutional Amendment passed that fixes the problem.
BTW the idea that having one or even two US Citizen parents gives a child automatic citizenship (if the child is born outside the US) assumes that the US recognizes transmission of Citizenship by blood alone. It hasn't since the adoption of the 14th Amendment overturned that notion that was keeping the slaves from being recognized as US Citizens by their birth on US soil. The Slave States tried to establish that birth on US soil didn't establish US Citizenship, but rather birth to US Citizen Parents did. The SCOTUS actually agreed with them in the infamous Dred Scott case, but Dred Scott was overturned when the States ratified the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution establishing that birth within the borders of the United States is the only natural form of Citizenship (irrespective of one's parents status), and all else is a form of naturalization by statute.
1. Young voters will eventually become bored of Obamamania and will inadvertently not show up to vote on November 1st.
2. Middle-aged, disgruntled women and Reagan Democrats may vote for McCain without qualms.
3. Assuming McCain picks an LOC VP like Bloomberg or Crist, the conservative vote will be split, some will go to McCain, others will go to Barr. This will be the first election in which a Libertarian will capture more than 10% of the popular vote. If McCain picks Romney or Jindal, the conservative vote should remain intact.
Final Election Results:
First scenario (conservative veep):
Obama - 44%
McCain - 54%
Barr - 2%
1. Young voters will eventually become bored of Obamamania and will inadvertently not show up to vote on November 1st.
THIS is key, you think MTV, and Sean "puffy" Combs and the like had the "Vote or die" BS 4 years ago....that is NOTHING compared to what will happen this time around
There will be more of that this time around then any.....all in the name of "YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE.....(for barack h-word obama)" there will be soooooooooooooooo much money spent by the Obama machine on all the channles MTV Spike, Comedy Central, ect. He doesn't have to really have to do anything else just remind the young'ens that election day is the first Tuesday in November.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Gerald Ford
Barry will win.. just like when jimmy carter won.. i was shocked.. If mcain is george bush 3 (and he is so not him.. not even close) then obama is jimmy carter 2.
We should get bumper stickers that say
obama for president jimmy carter 2..
and he will be just like jimmy he will do so well with iran. I just had the flashback to the mickey mouse bumper stickers with his middle finger up saying hey Iran.. imagine if they had those now.. the media would be like oh thats dangerous talk...
honesty is the best policy... unless your running for office.
Carter let the islamic fundamentalists gain power in Iran and Obama's going to let them get the bomb ... their legacies will dovetail perfectly with each other.
I am ONLY voting for McCain because he won't, at least, make America a whiny global laughing stock the way Obama will.
I think we can agree he does and says some idiotic things domestic policy wise. We can counter these with convincing arguments. But to waste precious time and energy on a non-issue isas idiotic, if not more so, than some of McCain's stances (like his stance on cap-and-trade)!!!
Carter let the islamic fundamentalists gain power in Iran and Obama's going to let them get the bomb ... their legacies will dovetail perfectly with each other.
very similar. Then people would know he's a democrat and I wouldn't feel as bad voting for the more conservative Democrat. It's voting for McCain as a Republican that is so repulsive.
When it's money, "hope" isn't as strong as just "think," or maybe just "fear losing it." That's what's beautiful about gambling vs polls where someone's asking an opinion and expecting to get it for free. Well, that and the lack of annoying phone calls interrupting meals.
JMR
The tax & spend drugwar looks racist in the real world.
If it were a horse race, there would be no money in it. After all, you can't really hope the long shot get third to boost the tri. Actually, there is no money in it now. Modest payoff for McCain, but the exacta sucks.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
But the overseas gambling aspects of the US Presidential race have fascinated me ever since I discovered foreigners bet on our elections. Gallup and Roper support annoying phone calls at suppertime, and for me that's a lot more sinful than some honest gambling.
Thankfully, the internet has made it impossible for the "mainstream" media to hide these useful odds from us, like they used to. I mean, does anyone believe a newspaper could have a London Bureau and NOT have the reporter watching Ladbroke odds in the '70s, whether or not any of them reported on it? I don't, but thank God for the internet taking the decision away from them and giving it to me.
JMR
The tax & spend drugwar looks racist in the real world.
Seems to me that the choice will be between a socialist/marxist and a liberal. The liberal, of course, will be McCain. It is a no-win situation.
I really believe this election will be decided based on who is Vice President. Many will believe that McCain is too old to survive his term, and that Obama is entirely too liberal to be elected. VP choice on both sides will determine, IMHO
I think if the election was held today McCain could pull it off. I know he is SO bad in some peoples eyes but when you compare him to Obama he is a Ultra conservative. No offense but I don't understand all those who won't vote for him because he isn't as conservative as they would like. Who knows what kind of damage Obama could do in four years. My husband is a submariner and everyone he knows in the military is afraid of what a president Obama will intel.
The more I hear people talk the more I think McCain has a shot. Not on here where most conservatives are so negative against McCain. I just know a lot of Dems..being in liberal CT...who are not that fond of Obama. My mother in law who has never voted in her life is going to vote for McCain because she fears what an Obama presidency would be like. She has never had any desire to vote or interest in politics but this year she is voting.
He did it himself, he has done it arrogantly with the msm's help and his stupidity into believing in the msm and his own press... but more than anything the big-wigs behind the scenes that have pushed McCain on us are done too.
I respect the way you and a heck a lot of others feel here, I just can't help but wonder if anyone listens to the words McCain says in his town hall meeting and his speeches...beyond pathetic...let alone what he has done to just regular folks behind the scenes in the Senate...let alone the President during a time of war, and he keeps jabbing us and the President in the eye every chance he gets...last night was a prime example.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I agree... you can't agree with everyone all the time in our personal lives so why do we expect to agree with our leaders all the time. The key word is leader and BHO is no leader. MAC can lead and will lead our forces. When you vote you have to stay true to your core beliefs and I see nothing, absolutely nothing in BHO that matches my Catholic upbringing or my educational background. What scares me is that he has the influence that makes a Catholic Priest become ugly, twisted and un-CHRISTLIKE. Just who is BHO? I want the MSM to ask that question since I think we all know MAC for the Hero he is! These so called conservatives and independents that say they have to sit back and see how this unfolds makes me laugh in disgust... just look at your core beliefs and if you have some MAC is your man... if you can't find them then BHO is your false Messiah.
Obama, I think. Not enough of us are excited about Mac. He will have money troubles because of that. Obama will serve one term only tho, and will lose seats in both houses to republicans at mid term elections.
I hope to Heaven I am wrong, but that is the way I see it. Perhaps then, Fred Thompson will enter the race sooner than this last time.
Lily Pearl: I believe what DB meant is that their NB poll vote was cast to indicate that they believe that Obama will win, not that they had voted for him in a primary.
Like Fredo. Whoa! Let's have a moment of silence for the perfect Obama analogy! Perfect! I've seen The Godfather hundreds of times. Fredo is the perfect analogy to Obama. Thumbs up!
Yeah, I think Scott McClellan is more analagous to Fredo...both were incompetent, both got slapped around in public (Fredo by Moe Green; McClellan by David Gregory, Terry Moran, etc.) and both unwittingly turned on their families because they wanted to be big shots.
Pardon my ignorance, but who are Tom Grunick and Jane Craig?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Oh, thanks bal. I probably should have known, but never saw the film straight through (picked parts up when changing the channel, though). Who would be the Albert Brooks character, then?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
For the conservatives that can't get excited about MAC realize that you can't agree with everyone all the time in our personal lives so why do we expect to agree with our leaders all the time. The key word is leader and BHO is no leader. MAC can lead and will lead our forces. When you vote you have to stay true to your core beliefs and I see nothing, absolutely nothing in BHO that matches my Catholic upbringing or my educational background. What scares me is that he has the influence that makes a Catholic Priest become ugly, twisted and un-CHRISTLIKE. Just who is BHO? I want the MSM to ask that question since I think we all know MAC for the Hero he is! These so called conservatives and independents that say they have to sit back and see how this unfolds makes me laugh in disgust... just look at your core beliefs and if you have some MAC is your man... if you can't find them then BHO is your false Messiah.
Since when can a war hero and renegade republican be an empty suit? Get real... it seems the empty suit BHO has you confused and bewildered. Resist the slick marketing and research your "purchase" of the next President. We should all look past, race, age, sex and appearance... only then will you be able to tell the empty suits from the people of substance, character and backbone. BHO has nothing offer but empty words, dated and failed policies!
First of all, I agree that McCain is a war hero, and I respect him for that, truly.
However, "renegade republican" = candyass sellout, IYAM.
Since 2000, McCain has changed politically, and somewhat radically, at that.
He clearly does not support political free speech (McCain-Feingold)
He whole-heartedly supports the illegal criminal invasion of this country by our neighbors to the south, and went straight to bed with Ted Kennedy in an effort to grant them all amnesty.
He has fallen in line with the eco-socialists in his support for the hideous cap-and-trade nonsense, which will do far more damage to this country's economy than the desired tax-increases of Barry-O and Broom Hilda combined.
He will sabotage what is left of the conservative wing of the Republican Party (not that there is much left of that anyway, thanks to the fact that the party has pretty much squandered the opportunities it gained in 1994.)
Did I leave anything out?
Go ahead, vote for McCain. If he wins, it will be at least two decades before the conservatives could possibly regain the initiative.
-And that is assuming there will be anything left to save at that point.
I suggest you start Googling available real estate in the Caymen Islands.
He has shown himself as a Democrat time and time again. Yes, he's for the Iraq war...but so is Joe (what can I say I believe today?) Lieberman!
I've heard all of the arguments for voting for McCain...but I will not support this arrogant liberal! If we need Carter II to remind us how bad things can get, ok. An Obama Presidency would show the Stupid White People that support Obama that change can indeed be for the worse...a la Carter. But Carter helped bring on Reagan, who the Repub leadership had shunned.
I am no longer a Republican and I won't vote for a Democrat, whether it be Obama or McCain.
Why waste 7.5% of your life living through the misery of Carter II? If you take an average life expectancy of 71 years subtract 18 that gives you 7.5% of your life that could be f'up by Obama and it will be a lot worse than Carter considering the complexities of this day and age. Plus that doesn't include the years it will take to reverse the damage our first communist President BHO will do. Wake-up... trying to save the Republican Party and waiting for the next Ronald Wilson Reagan will destroy what is left of this country!!!!! Consider MAC a compromise.
RD.... Running out of money? At least you still have your freedom. Barrack Hussien Obama wants to turn your country over to the UN! That giant sucking sound will be your constitution and your future earning power going down!
I don't mean to offend anyone and I honestly do understand peoples problems with McCain. I have some of the same problems. His stance on illegal immigration and so on. If people don't want to vote for him fine...but I wonder if they think about the damage Obama could do to our military in 4 or 8 years time?? I don't mean to sound so negative but I know what Clinton did to the military. I guess people forget that more than half of the military was on welfare while Clinton was in office. It was like 65% or something. There are submarines out there that are older than the people on them because they weren't being built. I have no doubt that Obama would cut troops levels and that means less promotions and more experienced people getting out or having to get out because they haven't made rank and are forced out. There is so much damage that Obama could do that could take years to fix.
If McCain gets elected and signs his precious cap-and-trade BS into law (and I believe he will at the first opportunity) you can pretty much kiss our economy, as well as our military, good-bye.
When that happens, they'll not admit any error in selecting a nominee. Mark my words. "Nobody else could have possibly won against the all powerful Obama" will become the watchwords.
JMR
The tax & spend drugwar looks racist in the real world.
Have no fear McCain supporters, your guy will win, and will win because of the Dems that will vote for him. There is a large segment (something between 18% - 20%) of the Dem party that will never vote for a black guy, so their vote will go to the old white guy.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
John McCain
June 4, 2008 - 12:49 ET by HelenSWhether from a combination of the loyal Republicans and the Hillary supporters, or from simple math, I believe that John McCain ultimately will look like the more substantial candidate.
I can't get away from the notion that there is no "there" there with Obama. All rhetoric and zero direction or substance.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Paul (Rom. 13:1)
I hope you and the majority here are right Helen
June 4, 2008 - 12:57 ET by Dee BunkI voted Obama and I don't even think it will be close. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see how McCain can win when even people like me who hope that he does, can't get the least bit excited about it and won't be contributing time or money to his campaign.
I have given to the RNC and am going to try and find out about some Senate and or House races to get involved with.
I agree with you that it will be a landslide for Obama
June 4, 2008 - 13:14 ET by Daniel BakerObama has the support of loyal democrat troops on the ground. McCain does not have loyal republicans supporting him.
Obama's Real Religion
im not bying what your
June 4, 2008 - 15:29 ET by charlietexasim not bying what your smokin...dude........obama is weak, like Fredo.....
Funny, I'm the opposite
June 4, 2008 - 13:28 ET by cjbreischI refuse to give any money to the RNC because they'll just spend it on RINO's. And we don't really have a prayer of retaking the House or Senate anyway.
So, I've given money to McCain who's definitely not my first choice, but he's right on Iraq and terrorism, and I've read Michael Yon's book. It's obvious that Obama hasn't.
Do I have problems with McCain? You bet I do. But, frankly, I have bigger problems with my choices for Congress and Senate. They aren't getting my vote. I'm seriously considering voting for President and for re-electing my fantastic governor (Mitch Daniels -- (R-IN)), and leaving the rest of my ballot blank.
Anyway, I said McCain because I've been watching the EV projections. The only way Obama wins is by spending every dollar he has and then some. He's an awful candidate with awful policies, but he's a money machine. It's not inconceivable that he'll be able to outspend McCain by as much as 3-1 in every battleground state. You can buy a lot of votes with that kind of money.
Because the vote of a
June 4, 2008 - 15:25 ET by Hero SquadBecause the vote of a "non-enthusiastic" person counts exactly the same as the vote of a rabid supporter with bumper stickers and signs and shirts and hats and buttons and a second mortgage used to contribute to a campaign.
I'd say that if McCain has the non-enthusiastic vote locked up, he'll win.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Wait a second--you voted for
June 4, 2008 - 16:14 ET by LilyPearlWait a second--you voted for Obama but want McCain to win. That makes no sense.
LilyPearl
June 4, 2008 - 18:02 ET by viluzionMakes sense to me. By the time they got around to holding the primaries in Texas, McCain already had the Republican nomination locked up, and I wanted to vote for a Democrat for Sheriff against another Democrat who was opposing him. As long as I had a Democrat ballot in front of me anyway, I voted against Hillary Clinton.
No "there" there
June 4, 2008 - 12:59 ET by RobNYou may be right, Helen, that there's "no 'there' there," but since when have Americans gone for substance over style?
Obama's base is giddy. McCain's base is holding its nose. Which one will do a better job getting out the vote in November?
Dee and Rob, you're both
June 4, 2008 - 13:10 ET by HelenSDee and Rob, you're both right and I have to confess to a HUGE amount of discouragement and actual fear. Hence my tag-line below: a major note-to-self.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Paul (Rom. 13:1)
we may have to slug thru a
June 4, 2008 - 13:16 ET by TruthMongerwe may have to slug thru a Jimmuh Cahtah redux - and just get it over with...
half the kids I talk to don't even know who Jimmuh is - or gas lines, or the energy crisis, or double-digit inflation...
it's certainly not in the public "school" history books of course:)
I bought a history book a
June 4, 2008 - 13:35 ET by FoolicanI bought a history book a few years back, which documented the era from the 1960s to the 1990s.
It said the energy crisis wasn't Carter's fault. But it also said that Reagan was to blame for the increased financial gap and the growth of big businesses in the 1980s.
But historians are objective, right?
Historians...OBJECTIVE???
June 5, 2008 - 00:09 ET by UnsaneBut historians are objective, right? Speaking as one who has a degree in history: who the hell lied to you?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
A Problem With Reality
June 4, 2008 - 15:56 ET by zeestephenJohn McCain got only 47% of the vote in the Republican Primary in his home state of Arizona.
Since clinching the nomination in early March, McCain has received only 65% - 79% of the Republican primary votes, even though all of his opponents dropped out, stopped campaigning, or removed their names from the ballot.
"InTrade" - one of the top two political betting websites in the world, where people wager real money, their own money, on the outcome of the race - rates Obama a 59%-36% favorite over McCain.
In the last two years, "InTrade" gamblers have never given McCain more than a 40% chance of victory, except for a few days when the "Whitey" tape rumor hit its peak.
So what is your point.
June 4, 2008 - 16:47 ET by Dan The Man 2So what is your point. Until now all the Presidents in recent momory have been governors or such. The last senator elected was LBJ. So its been over 44 years since a senator was elected President. I say McCain will take the Presidency because Obama is a walking time bomb.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Fortunately
June 5, 2008 - 06:20 ET by sentforth5the President is not elected by popular vote.
Not the Best Candidates
June 4, 2008 - 12:54 ET by MeanderingWhile neither one is the best candidate for their party, its all we've got left. I think that America will see that Obama is as hollow as roll of toliet paper and about as useful once all the paper's gone. No substance. McCain is a pretty liberal Republican, but he's our last shot, but he stands firm as a man of honor and that is admirable. So while I don’t agree with McCain on some issues, I think he is American’s best shot at victory in Iraq and victory at squishing the liberal crazies and their agenda.
I sure hope
June 4, 2008 - 13:09 ET by DEVILDOCMOMthe people posting and their beliefs are correct. As some of the other articles on NBers allude bho is a much better and more powerful speaker. Of course, the old failing media only covers his good speeches, not his "I see dead people" gaffes.
57 States
June 4, 2008 - 13:21 ET by MeanderingThe MSM also neglect to mention he 57 states remark and refuse to chide him for his speech on clinging to guns and religion, which we know he doesn't cling to a religion as he walked out of his after 20 years because it was damaging to his campaign. Wus!
Barackoe Bama
June 4, 2008 - 15:28 ET by Hero SquadBarackoe Bama might run into bigger troubles if he doesn't get his gaffes in check. Lately, it seems like that is a tall challenge for him to achieve, as he doesn't seem completely aware that everything he says is now being reviewed with a fine tooth comb.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
He might get in trouble
June 4, 2008 - 20:53 ET by Cape ConservativeIF his gaffes received more than a passing notice (if that) - look at the Rezko business. If a Republican had been involved, it would have been non-stop, 24/7 coverage linking them to Rezko. With BHO, who actually had financial ties with Mrs. Rezko in purchasing his home, no mention...or if mentioned, momentary at best!
Exactly CC... In fact...
June 4, 2008 - 21:01 ET by bigtimerExactly CC...
In fact... if this had been a repub candidate in the reverse when this Rezko story came out, he would of been out of the race within one week... to put it mildly with the 24/7 leftist msm spin cycle.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Obama will win
June 4, 2008 - 13:20 ET by Daniel BakerHe is just barely behind with the deep division in the party. The media, the clinton machine, and the democrat faithful all campaining for him will push him over the edge.
Obama's Real Religion
Right Daniel - the only way he can lose
June 4, 2008 - 13:24 ET by Dee Bunkis if the Clinton machine decides to go against him and they won't.
I think they will.
June 4, 2008 - 13:32 ET by fitzfongI think they will. Privately...in the shadows. They won't have their fingerprints on it, but they'll be behind it. They'll leak stories, they'll have surrogates draw inferences. But they'll maintain the necessary 6 Degrees of Separation to allow Hillary the plausible deniability to run again in 2012.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
I agree fitz - that's how they'll do it but it won't work
June 4, 2008 - 13:50 ET by Dee BunkThey will be leaking the most sleaze but it will be blamed on the Republicans as always and it will just rally Dems even more.
For it to work for them, they would need to openly support McCain. They won't be able to do that. It's lose lose for them really as it is for us.
Wonder when
June 4, 2008 - 20:56 ET by Cape ConservativeMrs. Clinton will resume her senatorial duties! Her New York constituents must be real happy with her keeping her word about being their senator, no desire for anything else. "Vote for me - I'll stick with you" RIGHT!
I can't believe they elected her in the first place (okay, with Bill Clinton's pardons, I can understand) much less that she was re-elected! I really gave New Yorkers a little more credit than that!
Are you alleging that
June 5, 2008 - 18:01 ET by the curatorAre you alleging that Sens. Obama and/or McCain are paying more attention to their state contituents than Sen. Clinton? If so, do you have some documentation to back that?
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
Cape... Every time I talk
June 5, 2008 - 18:13 ET by Clear thinkerCape...
Every time I talk to my brother in upstate New York, I ask him if Hillary has brought any jobs to the upstate as she promised in her campaigns. It always get's a laugh out of him. Then he will tell me how many people are abandoning NY and moving to other states for jobs.
"Abstain from McCain"
McCain has already
June 4, 2008 - 13:23 ET by fitzfongMcCain has already suggested that he won't "attack" Obama (whatever that means), and since he's failed to make an adequate case for his own candidacy so far (and seems unwilling to make a better one in the future), I don't see where he gets the necessary votes to win this thing. Unless he starts giving the conservatives something to believe in, he will have to depend on Obama imploding or Clinton privately undermining Obama to have any chance. And a President McCain with heavy majorities in the House and Senate? How's that a victory?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
No issues
June 4, 2008 - 13:43 ET by the curatorHi, fitz.
I think one item people are leaving out that will hurt McCain is the lack of issues at the state level.
Karl Rove is brilliant... and during the 2000 and especially the 2004 elections, he made sure gay marriage (sanctity of marriage) amendments were on as many state ballots as possible.
That brought conservatives out in HUGE numbers to vote on an issue very near and dear to their hearts... and while there 'protecting marriage,' Bush was able to benefit from their presidential votes.
There's not issue there that I've heard of to galvanize republicans this cycle. Combine that with the left's anti-war sentiment and it's hard to make a case for McCain... again, unless Obama screws up royaly.
Looking at the voter turnout numbers for dems in the primary is daunting as well. I saw some numbers where it was 2-1 for dems over repubs.
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
There's certainly an
June 4, 2008 - 14:07 ET by fitzfongThere's certainly an element of truth to your position. Was it Tip O'Neill who first said "all politics is local"?
Were McCain not the nominee, I could see the issue of illegal immigration coming up on a lot of ballot initiatives...especially in blue collar battleground states like Ohio and Michigan (assuming there's much lingering resentment towards Obama regarding the Delegate seating issue). But McCain has effectively placed himself alongside Obama on this issue, so such initiatives would be unlikely to benefit him.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
The only issue I can think
June 4, 2008 - 14:09 ET by the curatorThe only issue I can think of that would have come out would be affirmative action. Two years ago in Michigan (and several other states), affirmative action laws concerning college admissions and gov't jobs were struck down overwhelmingly.
Given who the dem. candidate is, however, I don't know how well even that issue would go over right now.
This is going to be an uphill battle for McCain, no doubt. Best shot he has, IMO, is to take as many moderate votes as possible. I honestly think he should run as much to the center as he can. Moderates already love him, and conservatives will never vote for Obama before him.
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
Conservatives won't vote
June 4, 2008 - 14:15 ET by Dee BunkConservatives won't vote.
I disagree with you
June 4, 2008 - 14:56 ET by fitzfongI disagree with you regarding who McCain should appeal to. Obama's base is energized. They are excited about voting for him. I think the moderate vote is going to be a wash...McCain is very popular with moderate Republicans, but conservative Republicans resent the moderates and, by extension, McCain. Meanwhile, self-described moderates like Tim Russert and Chris Matthews have gone from trumpeting McCain's maverick virtues to talking up Obama's youthful energy. McCain's primary difficulty is that he has no support at the conservative base. With a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate, many conservatives will see little difference between a McCain and an Obama Presidency...McCain will effectively be neutered and the party will be blamed for his failures. I think the prevailing attitude among conservatives will be "if the country is going to hell anyway, why not let it be on their watch"...sometimes it takes a Jimmy Carter to appreciate a Ronald Reagan.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
I don't necessarily
June 4, 2008 - 15:00 ET by the curatorI don't necessarily disagree with any of what you said. But, if that's all true, what should McCain's strategy be?
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
Quit. And give somebody
June 4, 2008 - 15:06 ET by fitzfongQuit. And give somebody (anybody) the opportunity to run in his place. :-)
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Amen Fitz! That's what I've been hoping for. Let's Dream
June 4, 2008 - 15:12 ET by Dee BunkWhat would happen if he did that? I know it's not likely but if we wanted to live in a dream world temporarily, where he did quit, how would the new candidate be chosen?
Before the convention, I
June 4, 2008 - 15:21 ET by the curatorBefore the convention, I think it would be a mad scramble... anyone and everyone throwing their hats in hoping for the state delegations to give them the nod when the convention rolls around.
After the convention... I have no idea what the precedent would be if a nominated candidated pulled out/died. Would it go to the nominated VP candidate? Anyone know?
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building."
-George W. Bush, October 11, 2000
So curator - if it were before the convention anyone could
June 4, 2008 - 15:39 ET by Dee Bunkthrow their hat in and the delegates would decide?
I was only 1/2 joking when
June 4, 2008 - 15:41 ET by fitzfongI was only 1/2 joking when I wrote that he should quit. McCain has a real problem. He is not popular with Conservatives and he ran his primary campaign as if he didn't want or need Conservative support. If he stays the same course, Conservatives won't vote for him. If he shifts, he'll lose a bit of that "straight shooter", "maverick" profile that has gotten him this far...he'll lose some Moderates and Liberals, but he might not gain as many Conservatives as a maneuver like that might suggest. I believe Conservatives will always be suspicious of him and his motives and will see any shift right on his part as an inauthentic pander for votes...he may run as a Conservative, but most believe he'll govern as a Liberal. He's painted himself into a real corner.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Curator,
June 4, 2008 - 19:23 ET by RESTLESS 1Veeps are not nominated, they are chosen by the presidential nominee. That said, I have no idea how they would reconcile a post convention pull out or death. Possibly the second place finisher in the primaries?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
only months away
June 4, 2008 - 13:26 ET by wizardjrIt's only a few more months until we finally become The Peoples Republic of America. We'll finally be able to enjoy all those wonderful things they had in the USSR: long lines to get to anything; nothing there when you get to the end of the line; $12 a gallon gas, if you can find any; $10 a gallon milk, if you can find any; free health care, if you can find any; etc., etc., etc. Jimmy Carter will be looked upon fondly ten years from now, considering the state of affairs at that future time.
I don't know how to answer this question because...
June 4, 2008 - 13:30 ET by BritcomIt looks like McCain has the advantage to win the general election against Obama, but if McCain wins, he can't be sworn in because, as a Panamanian born naturalized citizen, he doesn't meet Constitutional muster to be POTUS.
So, my understanding is that McCain's vice-presidential pick would actually become President and at this point we have no idea who that will be.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Dug this up. An Act to
June 4, 2008 - 13:45 ET by BelnumCreeDug this up.
An Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization
First Congress, Session 2, Chapter 3
March 26, 1790
SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof, on application to any common law court of record, in any one of the states wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such court, that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law, to support the constitution of the United States, which oath or affirmation such court shall administer; and the clerk of such court shall record such application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a citizen of the United States. And the children of such persons so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, That no person heretofore proscribed by any state, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an act of the legislature of the state in which such person was proscribed.
APPROVED, March 26, 1790.
http://www.historykat.com/statutes/docs_1_2_3.html
1790 law repealed
June 4, 2008 - 19:36 ET by BritcomWhile it is true that this statute was a adopted in 1790, it was repealed in 1795 because it was determined that it was unconstitutional.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Didn't know that. I just
June 4, 2008 - 20:38 ET by BelnumCreeDidn't know that. I just stumbled upon what I found after doing a little research on your remark. Thanks for the information.
That's really the key
June 4, 2008 - 13:54 ET by ThatDudeThat's really the key here. Whoever fills the VP slots on either side will make or break them. McCain is going to need a strong conservative at his side to counteract some of his liberal policies. As I mentioned in another article, if everyone was voting based on substance, the moderates would mostly swing McCain's way. Obama is getting the racist vote and that of the teary-eyed bleeding heart liberal. I think there's actually a good chance he can win with that alone. If Obama picks a decent centrist democrat, he will be able to get the rest of his party who can see through the empty and dangerous policies he is promising to employ.
For this to be an election with any merit, McCain will need to stick to everything he's been saying so far (as much as i dislike many of his policies, I'd hate it more if he started flip-flopping.) Obama, on the other hand, will have to put up a realistic platform and start having his ideas criticized properly.
I don't know much about McCain's parents...
June 4, 2008 - 14:01 ET by leprcnbut I am going to assume they were both US citizens at the time they gave birth to him. So, to use me as an example, you're saying if my parents were on vacation in France and gave birth to me in a French hospital, I would not be a "Natural Born Citizen?" What about the children of illegal immigrants? Some kid born to two illegal immigrants in some back-alley in NY has more right to the Presidency thatn a Vietnam Veteran POW? And I hope I don't come off as flippant, I am not being sarcastic, I'm really curious as to the answer to this question.
While we must remember that
June 4, 2008 - 19:29 ET by BritcomWhile we must remember that this disability relates to holding the office of President alone, and not to any other rights, you are correct.
The 14th Amendment limits citizenship to two kinds, those who are born in the US (natural), and those who are foreign born (naturalized) regardless of parentage.
Before the 14th Amendment was adopted, the Slave States were successful in claiming that African born slaves had no right to citizenship and since their children had not citizen parents, they were not citizens either regardless of the fact that they were "natural born" on US soil. The SCOTUS upheld this notion and the 14th Amendment later overturned it.
Now on the other hand citizenship by virtue of parental citizenship (blood) being given to children is not applicable in the US because the US had adopted the precedents of English Common law for US law which at the time did not recognised blood as a right for citizenship, but rather birth upon sovereign British (later Ameican) soil.
Of course, Europe did have the blood citizenship system, but that system is foreign to the US for legal purposes.
Since then Congress has many times passed laws that allow people to obtain US citizenship for various reasons and even obtain citizenship "at" birth for some reasons, but the courts have always said that those exceptions always fall into the category of "naturalized" citizenship, not "natural born" citizenship, which has the opposite meaning.
Congress doesn't have (and cannot give itself) the power to pass a law bestowing "natural born" cititizenship upon anyone because the "natural born" requirement is written into the US Constituion which can only be changed by an amendment duly ratified by a majority of the several States.
So if such an amendment is adopted in the future, only then will we have changed the law regarding who can be President.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
And the true test of such a
June 5, 2008 - 10:51 ET by Dan The Man 2And the true test of such a claim as yours is through the courts. If some of the principles behind the idea of natural born are fuzzy then th courts can clarify. If you or others believe so strongly then bring it on and I shall see your claim go down in flames. After all SCOTUS was to make sure all laws did not violate the constitution.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Hopefully the SCOTUS will rule on this.
June 5, 2008 - 16:37 ET by BritcomI am becoming more and more convinced by the legal arguments making their way around the web that with the current stock of originalists on the SCOTUS, McCain will lose his eligibility case, but when that ruling may come down becomes a politically chaotic wild card. For example:
If McCain is in office for a year and then ruled ineligible, would that nullify all of his vetoes and executive orders?
Or, if McCain is ruled ineligible after he is nominated at the convention, who would be the GOP nominee? One of the other candidates, or McCain's VP pick? What if McCain hasn't made a VP pick by that time? Is there a scenario where the Congress in assembly has to elect the President? If it's a Dem Congress, that can't be good.
Or, if McCain is ruled ineligible before the convention, who will his delegates vote for at the convention, and will they get to vote at all in a first round?
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Oh, please,
June 4, 2008 - 18:42 ET by DEVILDOCMOMget a life.
LOL DDM... Trolls are
June 4, 2008 - 18:52 ET by bigtimerLOL DDM...
Trolls are coming out of the woodwork everywhere...
Amusing.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I thought this was already
June 4, 2008 - 18:55 ET by balboaI thought this was already hashed out?
There is a court case in New Hampshire going forward
June 5, 2008 - 01:55 ET by BritcomThe case alleges that McCain is not eligible to be President, and the court has not ruled on it yet.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Beating the dead horse AGAIN
June 5, 2008 - 00:28 ET by UnsaneIt looks like McCain has the advantage to win the general election against Obama, but if McCain wins, he can't be sworn in because, as a Panamanian born naturalized citizen, he doesn't meet Constitutional muster to be POTUS. It really is too bad for you that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU ARE BORN: ONCE YOU ARE BORN TO TWO U.S. CITIZENS, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE BORN, YOU ARE A U.S. CITIZEN. THE END.
If this is NOT the case:
1) Why doesn't the USAF have a operation - for the sake of argument, let's call it Operation Patriot Stork - where the expectant spouses of U.S. military personnel, diplomats, and other government employees are flown home to ensure their children's U.S. citizenship?
2) On my sister's birth certificate, it says that she is a U.S. citizen. It indicates ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about her being naturalized or her being a German citizen. YET, as McCain was born in the Canal Zone in Panama to a military family, my sister was likewise born in Germany to a military family. Why is this?
No, you simply will not beat or counter my direct personal experience both with my sister's circumstance or that of many other brats I have known throughout my life.
Answers that indicate you lose: whining "you're in denial", or failing to answer in your very own words. It's critical thinking time.
I'm no McCain fan either. I am only voting for him because the Socialist alternative is FAR worse. I am voting AGAINST Socialsim rather than FOR an idiot. Oppose him ALL YOU WANT. But you need to GROW UP and look at something substantive for a change.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Is there an echo in here?
June 5, 2008 - 01:45 ET by BritcomI could swear I heard all this bogus argument
several times before. As the link below shows, the issue is not citizenship, it is birthplace that is at issue. Lets not try to confuse people by redirecting the argument away from birthplace to citizenship.
Whenever unsane uses the word citizen, he is very careful not to explain what kind of citizenship he means; natural or naturalized. He wants you to think that he has some sort of logic that proves that any kind of citizen is eligible for the Presidency, but as any school child knows, the Presidency can't fall on a foreign born citizen. McCain is a foreign born citizen. He was born in the Republic of Panama thousands of miles from US soil. The citizenship of McCain's parents is irrelevant, because they are not running for President, McCain is.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
A blithering idiot tries so hard to word-game
June 5, 2008 - 16:34 ET by UnsaneYou know, if you spent 1/10th the time campaigning for your Populist (and very unconservative) Hero that you do word-gaming and refusing to answer very basic simple questions, your Populist Hero just might be the nominee.
I could swear I heard all this bogus argument
several times before. I could swear I have heard your idiotic one several thousand times before too; and because you elect to waste so much of your time and efforts here, you FAIL to advance your own cause. As the link below shows, the issue is not citizenship, it is birthplace that is at issue. AND THAT DOES NOT MATTER. WHEN THE PARENTAGE OF THE CHILD IS TWO U.S. CITIZENS, BIRTHPLACE DOES NOT MATTER. It isn't my fault that you are an idiot and can't understand what thousands of military families understand COLD. Lets not try to confuse people by redirecting the argument away from birthplace to citizenship. AND THAT DOES NOT MATTER. WHEN THE PARENTAGE OF THE CHILD IS TWO U.S. CITIZENS, BIRTHPLACE DOES NOT MATTER. It isn't my fault that you are an idiot and can't understand what thousands of military families understand COLD.
There are some horrible AFN commercials you need to be exposed to, not unlike the way Alex was treated to horrifying imagery in A Clockwork Orange. They as well will explain the concept COLD.
Whenever unsane uses the word citizen, he is very careful not to explain what kind of citizenship he means; natural or naturalized. Word-game, word-game, word-game, word-game, word-game. I will explain this to you again, because you are such a blithering f#!%ing idiot. My mother is naturalized; she was born in Germany to German citizens, immigrated to the United States later, and became a naturalized U.S. citizen. Ironically, this naturalized U.S. citizen, then married to a U.S. citizen by both birth and soil, was living in Germany when they had their daughter; my oldest sister. She was born at a military hospital in Germany. Strangely, in sipte of ALL of your word-gaming, her birth certificate - which I have SEEN and READ REPEATEDLY - says that she is a U.S. citizen, PERIOD. Not "natural", not "naturalized", NOTHING. U.S. CITIZEN. YOU IDIOT. He wants you to think that he has some sort of logic that proves that any kind of citizen is eligible for the Presidency, but as any school child knows except those educated in public schools where they arn't taught the Constitution, and clearly you weren't either, the Presidency can't fall on a foreign born citizen. UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, McCAIN, LIKE MILLIONS OF CHILDREN BORN TO MILITARY FAMILIES, WAS BORN A U.S. CITIZEN. THE END. McCain is a foreign born citizen. INCORRECT. HIS PARENTS WERE U.S. CITIZENS. THEREFORE HE WAS BORN ONE. THE END. He was born in the Republic of Panama thousands of miles from US soil. The citizenship of McCain's parents is irrelevant except that it is 100% relevant because THEY were U.S. citizens, therefore making him one AT BIRTH whether you like it or not., because they are not running for President, McCain is. Huh?
Now SHUT UP AND ANSWER MY VERY BASIC AND SIMPLE QUESTIONS ABOVE, IDIOT.
I will even add another:
The United States military is crawling with legal officers, on every base around the world. If what you say is true, why NOT A PEEP from them on this issue? How come NONE of them have briefed expectant mothers to head home to the United States to give birth? And why hasn't the United States military set up a program like my theoretical Operation Patriot Stork in response?
Hell, another:
Why aren't the State Department, the military, and other government agencies STRUGGLING to recruit people with that restriction? Families would be very reticent to the notion of overseas assignments if what you say is remotely true.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Shooting the messenger
June 5, 2008 - 17:35 ET by BritcomSince the "natural born" clause in the US Constitution only effects those who might someday run for President. The Pentagon and the State Department don't see it as vitally important. But they also don't want to scare people away from joining the armed services or diplomatic corps because of the issue for exactly the reasons you state above. It would be bad for morale and too expensive to work around, so they choose to ignore it in hopes that no one will open that can of worms, kind of like their "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Instead of attempting to shoot the messenger, your energy would be better utilized in getting a Constitutional Amendment passed that fixes the problem.
BTW the idea that having one or even two US Citizen parents gives a child automatic citizenship (if the child is born outside the US) assumes that the US recognizes transmission of Citizenship by blood alone. It hasn't since the adoption of the 14th Amendment overturned that notion that was keeping the slaves from being recognized as US Citizens by their birth on US soil. The Slave States tried to establish that birth on US soil didn't establish US Citizenship, but rather birth to US Citizen Parents did. The SCOTUS actually agreed with them in the infamous Dred Scott case, but Dred Scott was overturned when the States ratified the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution establishing that birth within the borders of the United States is the only natural form of Citizenship (irrespective of one's parents status), and all else is a form of naturalization by statute.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
The way I see it is
June 4, 2008 - 13:41 ET by FoolicanThe way I see it is this:
1. Young voters will
June 4, 2008 - 15:34 ET by red_dragon3111. Young voters will eventually become bored of Obamamania and will inadvertently not show up to vote on November 1st.
THIS is key, you think MTV, and Sean "puffy" Combs and the like had the "Vote or die" BS 4 years ago....that is NOTHING compared to what will happen this time around
There will be more of that this time around then any.....all in the name of "YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE.....(for barack h-word obama)" there will be soooooooooooooooo much money spent by the Obama machine on all the channles MTV Spike, Comedy Central, ect. He doesn't have to really have to do anything else just remind the young'ens that election day is the first Tuesday in November.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Gerald Ford
It's your choice
June 4, 2008 - 13:47 ET by CaringwhiteguyRadical chic Black Liberationist vs. the Manchurian Candidate
Citizen McCain
June 4, 2008 - 14:20 ET by okiehawk44Stop with the new Urban Legend stuff.
John McCain is a U.S. citizen born to U.S. citizens -- father & grandfather were admirals in the U.S. Navy.
Now stop the stupid non-issue stuff dimwits.
well im afraid
June 4, 2008 - 14:30 ET by audio357Barry will win.. just like when jimmy carter won.. i was shocked.. If mcain is george bush 3 (and he is so not him.. not even close) then obama is jimmy carter 2.
We should get bumper stickers that say
obama for president jimmy carter 2..
and he will be just like jimmy he will do so well with iran. I just had the flashback to the mickey mouse bumper stickers with his middle finger up saying hey Iran.. imagine if they had those now.. the media would be like oh thats dangerous talk...
honesty is the best policy... unless your running for office.
Obama : Jimmy Carter 2.0
June 4, 2008 - 14:58 ET by benjamingatesCarter let the islamic fundamentalists gain power in Iran and Obama's going to let them get the bomb ... their legacies will dovetail perfectly with each other.
Well the dems love to say
June 4, 2008 - 16:08 ET by red_dragon311Well the dems love to say that McCain is bush's 3rd term, so the repub's should go that angle.
But we all know that will be a racist attack
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Gerald Ford
Let's stop wasting time on idiocy
June 5, 2008 - 00:26 ET by UnsaneThank you!!!
I am ONLY voting for McCain because he won't, at least, make America a whiny global laughing stock the way Obama will.
I think we can agree he does and says some idiotic things domestic policy wise. We can counter these with convincing arguments. But to waste precious time and energy on a non-issue is as idiotic, if not more so, than some of McCain's stances (like his stance on cap-and-trade)!!!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Obama/ McCain
June 4, 2008 - 14:34 ET by burtonrobsonWith so mush BDS,I'm afraid the Dems will win even if they run a cut off stump!! Or Obama.
hey burtonrobson
June 4, 2008 - 16:28 ET by wizardjrIsn't that redundant? :-))
Obama : Jimmy Carter 2.0
June 4, 2008 - 15:00 ET by benjamingatesCarter let the islamic fundamentalists gain power in Iran and Obama's going to let them get the bomb ... their legacies will dovetail perfectly with each other.
This poll reflects NB...
June 4, 2008 - 15:07 ET by sarcasmoThe odds reflect the free market's view of current reality.
Trust whichever one you like!!
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc - I think it mostly reflects what people hope happens
June 4, 2008 - 15:13 ET by Dee Bunknot what they think actually will.
veep
June 4, 2008 - 16:05 ET by MaryRuthOk here is stupid solution to John Mc winning the presidency. Take Hillery as his Veep. He is almost a democrat anyway and O doesn't want her.
Mary - I'm all for that - Hillary should be his VP. They are
June 4, 2008 - 16:47 ET by Dee Bunkvery similar. Then people would know he's a democrat and I wouldn't feel as bad voting for the more conservative Democrat. It's voting for McCain as a Republican that is so repulsive.
At least for me
June 5, 2008 - 06:25 ET by sarcasmoWhen it's money, "hope" isn't as strong as just "think," or maybe just "fear losing it." That's what's beautiful about gambling vs polls where someone's asking an opinion and expecting to get it for free. Well, that and the lack of annoying phone calls interrupting meals.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc,
June 4, 2008 - 19:16 ET by RESTLESS 1If it were a horse race, there would be no money in it. After all, you can't really hope the long shot get third to boost the tri. Actually, there is no money in it now. Modest payoff for McCain, but the exacta sucks.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
It's not a horse race,
June 5, 2008 - 06:15 ET by sarcasmoBut the overseas gambling aspects of the US Presidential race have fascinated me ever since I discovered foreigners bet on our elections. Gallup and Roper support annoying phone calls at suppertime, and for me that's a lot more sinful than some honest gambling.
Thankfully, the internet has made it impossible for the "mainstream" media to hide these useful odds from us, like they used to. I mean, does anyone believe a newspaper could have a London Bureau and NOT have the reporter watching Ladbroke odds in the '70s, whether or not any of them reported on it? I don't, but thank God for the internet taking the decision away from them and giving it to me.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Seems to me that the choice
June 4, 2008 - 15:47 ET by Pete WilsonSeems to me that the choice will be between a socialist/marxist and a liberal. The liberal, of course, will be McCain. It is a no-win situation.
I really believe this election will be decided based on who is Vice President. Many will believe that McCain is too old to survive his term, and that Obama is entirely too liberal to be elected. VP choice on both sides will determine, IMHO
PW - good conclusion!
June 4, 2008 - 21:06 ET by Cape Conservativeand I haven't a clue as to who will be selected. But I definitely agree the VP is going to be the deciding factor!
I agree here...I think it
June 4, 2008 - 21:11 ET by bigtimerI agree here...I think it will be a huge factor for the McCain vote.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I voted Obama...hands
June 4, 2008 - 16:04 ET by bigtimerI voted Obama...hands down.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Right now McCain wins.
June 4, 2008 - 16:43 ET by DaieI think if the election was held today McCain could pull it off. I know he is SO bad in some peoples eyes but when you compare him to Obama he is a Ultra conservative. No offense but I don't understand all those who won't vote for him because he isn't as conservative as they would like. Who knows what kind of damage Obama could do in four years. My husband is a submariner and everyone he knows in the military is afraid of what a president Obama will intel.
The more I hear people talk the more I think McCain has a shot. Not on here where most conservatives are so negative against McCain. I just know a lot of Dems..being in liberal CT...who are not that fond of Obama. My mother in law who has never voted in her life is going to vote for McCain because she fears what an Obama presidency would be like. She has never had any desire to vote or interest in politics but this year she is voting.
Daie..McCain is
June 4, 2008 - 16:53 ET by bigtimerDaie..
McCain is toast.
He did it himself, he has done it arrogantly with the msm's help and his stupidity into believing in the msm and his own press... but more than anything the big-wigs behind the scenes that have pushed McCain on us are done too.
I respect the way you and a heck a lot of others feel here, I just can't help but wonder if anyone listens to the words McCain says in his town hall meeting and his speeches...beyond pathetic...let alone what he has done to just regular folks behind the scenes in the Senate...let alone the President during a time of war, and he keeps jabbing us and the President in the eye every chance he gets...last night was a prime example.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Substance and core beliefs
June 4, 2008 - 23:30 ET by Red Stater Commie haterDaie,
I agree... you can't agree with everyone all the time in our personal lives so why do we expect to agree with our leaders all the time. The key word is leader and BHO is no leader. MAC can lead and will lead our forces. When you vote you have to stay true to your core beliefs and I see nothing, absolutely nothing in BHO that matches my Catholic upbringing or my educational background. What scares me is that he has the influence that makes a Catholic Priest become ugly, twisted and un-CHRISTLIKE. Just who is BHO? I want the MSM to ask that question since I think we all know MAC for the Hero he is! These so called conservatives and independents that say they have to sit back and see how this unfolds makes me laugh in disgust... just look at your core beliefs and if you have some MAC is your man... if you can't find them then BHO is your false Messiah.
Obama, I think. Not enough
June 4, 2008 - 16:25 ET by bassndudeObama, I think. Not enough of us are excited about Mac. He will have money troubles because of that. Obama will serve one term only tho, and will lose seats in both houses to republicans at mid term elections.
I hope to Heaven I am wrong, but that is the way I see it. Perhaps then, Fred Thompson will enter the race sooner than this last time.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Dee Bunk's "Vote"
June 4, 2008 - 19:03 ET by HeikiLily Pearl: I believe what DB meant is that their NB poll vote was cast to indicate that they believe that Obama will win, not that they had voted for him in a primary.
Like Fredo. Whoa! Let's
June 4, 2008 - 22:20 ET by Scout FinchLike Fredo. Whoa! Let's have a moment of silence for the perfect Obama analogy! Perfect! I've seen The Godfather hundreds of times. Fredo is the perfect analogy to Obama. Thumbs up!
Really? Fredo was unsure of
June 4, 2008 - 22:27 ET by balboaReally? Fredo was unsure of himself, couldn't inspire anyone around him, and that insecurity lead ultimately to his betrayal and death.
Seems like Obama, so far as I can tell, is more like Tom Grunick. Now he needs a good Jane Craig as his VP, and if he wins, as his cabinet.
Yeah, I think Scott
June 4, 2008 - 22:48 ET by fitzfongYeah, I think Scott McClellan is more analagous to Fredo...both were incompetent, both got slapped around in public (Fredo by Moe Green; McClellan by David Gregory, Terry Moran, etc.) and both unwittingly turned on their families because they wanted to be big shots.
Pardon my ignorance, but who are Tom Grunick and Jane Craig?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Fitz, sorry, Tom and Jane
June 4, 2008 - 22:56 ET by balboaFitz, sorry, Tom and Jane are the characters William Hurt and Holly Hunter play in "Broadcast News."
Oh, thanks bal. I
June 4, 2008 - 23:32 ET by fitzfongOh, thanks bal. I probably should have known, but never saw the film straight through (picked parts up when changing the channel, though). Who would be the Albert Brooks character, then?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Core Beliefs... got some?
June 4, 2008 - 23:34 ET by Red Stater Commie haterFor the conservatives that can't get excited about MAC realize that you can't agree with everyone all the time in our personal lives so why do we expect to agree with our leaders all the time. The key word is leader and BHO is no leader. MAC can lead and will lead our forces. When you vote you have to stay true to your core beliefs and I see nothing, absolutely nothing in BHO that matches my Catholic upbringing or my educational background. What scares me is that he has the influence that makes a Catholic Priest become ugly, twisted and un-CHRISTLIKE. Just who is BHO? I want the MSM to ask that question since I think we all know MAC for the Hero he is! These so called conservatives and independents that say they have to sit back and see how this unfolds makes me laugh in disgust... just look at your core beliefs and if you have some MAC is your man... if you can't find them then BHO is your false Messiah.
Barry-O is going to mop the floor with Sen. Cap-n-trade's...
June 4, 2008 - 23:49 ET by R D Helm...empty suit.
There, I said it.
Empty Suit...
June 5, 2008 - 00:06 ET by Red Stater Commie haterSince when can a war hero and renegade republican be an empty suit? Get real... it seems the empty suit BHO has you confused and bewildered. Resist the slick marketing and research your "purchase" of the next President. We should all look past, race, age, sex and appearance... only then will you be able to tell the empty suits from the people of substance, character and backbone. BHO has nothing offer but empty words, dated and failed policies!
RSCh, well, you said it.
June 5, 2008 - 00:56 ET by R D HelmFirst of all, I agree that McCain is a war hero, and I respect him for that, truly.
However, "renegade republican" = candyass sellout, IYAM.
Since 2000, McCain has changed politically, and somewhat radically, at that.
He clearly does not support political free speech (McCain-Feingold)
He whole-heartedly supports the illegal criminal invasion of this country by our neighbors to the south, and went straight to bed with Ted Kennedy in an effort to grant them all amnesty.
He has fallen in line with the eco-socialists in his support for the hideous cap-and-trade nonsense, which will do far more damage to this country's economy than the desired tax-increases of Barry-O and Broom Hilda combined.
He will sabotage what is left of the conservative wing of the Republican Party (not that there is much left of that anyway, thanks to the fact that the party has pretty much squandered the opportunities it gained in 1994.)
Did I leave anything out?
Go ahead, vote for McCain. If he wins, it will be at least two decades before the conservatives could possibly regain the initiative.
-And that is assuming there will be anything left to save at that point.
I suggest you start Googling available real estate in the Caymen Islands.
No sh*t.
Face it, McCain is a Democrat!
June 5, 2008 - 00:05 ET by jefflebowskiHe has shown himself as a Democrat time and time again. Yes, he's for the Iraq war...but so is Joe (what can I say I believe today?) Lieberman!
I've heard all of the arguments for voting for McCain...but I will not support this arrogant liberal! If we need Carter II to remind us how bad things can get, ok. An Obama Presidency would show the Stupid White People that support Obama that change can indeed be for the worse...a la Carter. But Carter helped bring on Reagan, who the Repub leadership had shunned.
I am no longer a Republican and I won't vote for a Democrat, whether it be Obama or McCain.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Why waste 7.5% of your life
June 5, 2008 - 00:13 ET by Red Stater Commie haterWhy waste 7.5% of your life living through the misery of Carter II? If you take an average life expectancy of 71 years subtract 18 that gives you 7.5% of your life that could be f'up by Obama and it will be a lot worse than Carter considering the complexities of this day and age. Plus that doesn't include the years it will take to reverse the damage our first communist President BHO will do. Wake-up... trying to save the Republican Party and waiting for the next Ronald Wilson Reagan will destroy what is left of this country!!!!! Consider MAC a compromise.
RSCh... Compromise... Su
June 5, 2008 - 00:38 ET by bigtimerRSCh...
Compromise...
Surely you jest!
Nope...no more.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
RSCh, we have been compromising.
June 5, 2008 - 00:58 ET by R D HelmWhich is why we are in the deep doo-doo we find ourselves in now.
We compromised and voted for GHWB. We got a huge tax increase followed by eight years of Clinton (and an even larger tax increase) for our effort.
Damn, dude, I am running out of money. Seriously.
We compromised yet again, and got GWB, along with a literal doubling in the size and scope of the federal government, for our effort.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing the same way, each time expecting a different result.
Not me, pal. No way, no how. Uh-uh.
Sorry, but the RINOs have trampled me for the last time.
Keep your freedom
June 5, 2008 - 07:53 ET by Red Stater Commie haterRD.... Running out of money? At least you still have your freedom. Barrack Hussien Obama wants to turn your country over to the UN! That giant sucking sound will be your constitution and your future earning power going down!
I'm writing in Randall "Tex" Cobb
June 5, 2008 - 00:54 ET by Carl KolchakI've decided that I'm writing in Randall "Tex" Cobb. If he isn't presidential material, then I don't know who is.
Carl,
June 5, 2008 - 01:01 ET by R D HelmLOL-Should I decide not to vote for Bob, I just might follow your lead.
Besides, The Duke is dead, and I am fast running out of heroes.
Voting for McCain
June 5, 2008 - 07:53 ET by DaieI don't mean to offend anyone and I honestly do understand peoples problems with McCain. I have some of the same problems. His stance on illegal immigration and so on. If people don't want to vote for him fine...but I wonder if they think about the damage Obama could do to our military in 4 or 8 years time?? I don't mean to sound so negative but I know what Clinton did to the military. I guess people forget that more than half of the military was on welfare while Clinton was in office. It was like 65% or something. There are submarines out there that are older than the people on them because they weren't being built. I have no doubt that Obama would cut troops levels and that means less promotions and more experienced people getting out or having to get out because they haven't made rank and are forced out. There is so much damage that Obama could do that could take years to fix.
Daie, don't worry about offending anyone.
June 6, 2008 - 00:11 ET by R D HelmI don't.
If McCain gets elected and signs his precious cap-and-trade BS into law (and I believe he will at the first opportunity) you can pretty much kiss our economy, as well as our military, good-bye.
Seriously.
Cliff Kincaid Speaks on the Candidates and the Important Issues
June 5, 2008 - 08:00 ET by BritcomAccuracy in Media Editor, Cliff Kincaid speaks on the candidates and the issues:
Audio links:
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
I like Cliff's take on things
June 5, 2008 - 08:01 ET by sarcasmoBut I wish I could find a text version of these...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
It won't be quite this
June 5, 2008 - 09:27 ET by NL207It won't be quite this lopsided in November, about 65-35 instead of 80-20.
I guess 8 years of
June 5, 2008 - 10:52 ET by ThoughtPoliceI guess 8 years of fogginess can cloud the mind. Too bad for me my man Ron Paul isn't the nominee but too bad for you John McCain is.
Obama wins by 8-10%.
Prediction:
June 5, 2008 - 11:10 ET by sarcasmoWhen that happens, they'll not admit any error in selecting a nominee. Mark my words. "Nobody else could have possibly won against the all powerful Obama" will become the watchwords.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
It won't be quite this
June 5, 2008 - 11:06 ET by NL207It won't be quite this lopsided in November, about 65-35 instead of 80-20.
Have no fear McCain
June 5, 2008 - 18:23 ET by Clear thinkerHave no fear McCain supporters, your guy will win, and will win because of the Dems that will vote for him. There is a large segment (something between 18% - 20%) of the Dem party that will never vote for a black guy, so their vote will go to the old white guy.
"Abstain from McCain"
(Gasp!) I thought the racists were all Republicans.
June 6, 2008 - 06:44 ET by Britcomthat's what the TV tells me.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"