I can't influence the market. I am in for the long-term, and have to suffer the loses. I will tell you, though, that I am sick and tired of hearing the word "investor" (which is what I am) used where "trader" should be used. I'm also tired of seeing my investments influenced by margin traders, and those that only have to put up 1% to borrow 100% in the hopes of a quick gain. I'm tired of hearing an "investment" firm make an announcement that causes the "market" to turn negative on a dime.
I'm all for wall street reform. And I'd like to see the reform re-orient towards investors, and away from traders. If traders want to play in an investment market, they need to have incentives to stay longer, and dis-incentives to trade hourly, daily, by-the-minute. I'd like to see tax penalties for short-term traders; and no taxes for long-term investors. That way, maybe the markets turn to be less a gambler's dream, and more of an investor's place.
This is especially true in the world of 401Ks, where we, the individual, have to rely upon 401Ks for our financial future. My 401K, for example, doesn't allow me to re-trade my money for 7 days. If I'm under that type of restriction, why can't I demand the same for wall street?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank aSoldier. - My barber
If the markets were based on something substantive, you could predict this.
If the government keeps printing money and devaluing the dollar by basically buying devalued mortgages - which is practically what they're doing, it's not going to matter if stock prices go up - they will still be worth less than they were before.
Lending will stay frozen but, there will be a big rally up in the market. Loans will still be hard to get and in the end the ballot will have no effect in solving the credit market but it will help get the One elected by keeping the economy front and center.
Newsbusters knows full well that of the answers above, many are correct depending upon which day of the week it is.
It is in the interest of the Obama financiers to worry people with bad economic hits, so there will no doubt be pressure on the markets to continue the doom and gloom to scare people with no sense in Ohio and Pennsylvania as this is where this 9 11 economic attack is aimed at, along with the target of Jewish voters on the east coast.
Worry them and they will trend to Obama.
Buffett will need to continue his nation raping along with Soros to skim the markets of all the cash he can before this phase dries up and he has to move to getting his hands on that $700 billion in this bogus deal.
It is in their interest to scare segment voters, but to promote a feeling of things will be well so people go into debt for the post election X mas buying spree.
There will be of course select plunderings. One will occur the day of the McCain Obama debate just like one was engineered for the Palin Biden debate.
Massive profits will be taken from the market on that day and on the next when Obama is proclaimed the winner for loosing, the markets will rise again as the same financiers buy back stocks they sold at a profit.
This is all staged and literal economic terrorism and it is past time the big shot pundits on radio started nailing this as Obama is the reason it is happening.
So there will be many macro factors involved in this week on a strangling of the economy on days for Obama just like the fuel shortages and pricing went up for Obama.
The Europeans are using their personal money now in these massive fluctations on a daily basis to create this propaganda story the Gibson, Williams and Couric will run with every night.
What is the reason no one on the right is exposing this.
PS I did not vote in the above as it has to be more than one and sometimes parts of others depending on the day of the week in the manipulation.
What crisis is there going to be this week to justify government take over of some part of the economy? What's going to be the excuse this week, when the market tanks. "Oh, we didn't say it was definitely going to work."
the politician's have spun the fear factor out of control to avoid any blame being directed at their actions on the bailout.if you have a good credit rating there is no problem with getting a loan at a fair rate.my daughter and husbandin pa. just purchased a new 28ft. camper and 08 ford suv last week and had no problem getting financing at a fair rate.we , as voters, have to make a concerted effort to limit our political reprsentatives two a maximumof two terms. it will stop the corruption P.D.Q.
The US economy is living off the wealth of a previous era by liquidating entire industries, and allowing infrastructure to fall into disrepair. We are also borrowing from the future with huge budget deficits, in order to finance today. It is clear to me that this can not go on indefinitely. This is the exact opposite direction we need to go in as a country. We need to live within our means as a nation and as individuals. We need to encourage, manufacturing, exploiting our natural resources, and producing food and energy, not more casinos and nail salons. Saving should be encouraged, not borrowing to buy extravagant things beyond our means. Personal debts as well as the national debt must be payed off.
There are tens of millions of people who manage their finances properly. They carry the economic burden of this nation on their back. The top ten percent of all wage earners pay over 70% of federal income taxes. Soon their backs will no longer be able to carry the load. If our government and citizens do not manage their finances, we will undoubtedly devolve into a corrupt and impoverished third world nation with a huge peasant class. Step back and look at the big picture, I see no other outcome.
The bible says: in times of plenty, we must prepare for famine. Simple? Yes. Can this simple root cause, lead to economic devastation? Certainly
Folks, the downdraft has begun, a world wide recession is now in the offing because of the stupidity of Congress choosing a quick fix instead of actually attacking the roots of the problem. The only comfort I can offer you in the short term is Europe and it Socialist prattling idiots will be the first under the knife of reality.
<i>Hypo Real Estate, Germany's second largest real estate lender, teeters on the verge of collapse. The bank has a €400 billion balance sheet, which would make for a failure of a similar scale to Lehman's (Hypo's footings are roughly $550 billion, while Lehman's were $660 billion as of its last balance sheet date).
Even though Hypo it technically a bank, it is not a depositary institution, so rescuing it poses similar difficulties (procedural and political) to the authorities as Bear and Lehman did in the US. The financial system cannot take another body blow of this magnitude. The authorities had better patch this one up over the weekend, or we face even more credit market panic on Monday.
And if that weren't an ugly enough picture, the failure to salvage Hypo has even broader ramifications. From Marshall Auerbach, independent global strategist who does consultancy for a number of funds, and sometimes financial commentator, </i>
As far as I can tell there isn't and never was a lending freeze. Therefore there are no correct answers for me to choose.
Has anyone here had any problem getting credit? Has anyone here had their credit card company call them and tell them their credit limit was reduced?
For the second part I believe stocks will fluctuate in the short term with a general decline in the long term.
As more is learned about all the loopholes in the bill that benefit Leftists the more it will be understood just how much of the market has been socialized and stocks will decline.
Are Freddy and Fanny out of business now? Of course not, Google them and see.
If Obama wins the election there will be no way to restrain the Democrats since they will be the majority in the House and Senate.
When the Progressives passed the 17th amendment they politicized the Senate which made it just as partisan as the House. The Founding Fathers intended the Senate to be elected by the state legislators and serve only one term of 6 years which would have kept them somewhat insulated from the pressures of re-election and partisanship.
If one party controls the House, Senate and Presidency there are, essentially, no checks and balances left anymore
Democrats will unite and use the control and power over the market we just gave them to gain even more control and power. 840 billion bothers you? You ain't seen nuthin yet.
If Obama wins I fully expect an orchestrated depression which will be the excuse to grant him and the Democrats in Congress even greater unconstitutional powers with the MSM a willing accomplice, convincing the masses how necessary it all is. Of course one of the first things they will do is stack the Supreme Court with Liberal Marxists.
I can't wait for Obama's Potemkin Village where we all live in peace and harmony under his omniscience and omnipotence.
I agree for the most part, from what I am capable of understanding, being just a simple gal that tries her best to keep up with what is going on or expressing my views...
Are you serious? So you haven't heard that banks are refusing to lend to one another thereby making it impossible for companies and governments to get short-term financing? You haven't seen LIBOR rates at their highest in history as a result? Or our Federal funds rate MUCH higher than the Fed target as a result?
This is currently what the crisis is all about.
Now, does that mean that you can't go into a car dealer right now and get a loan? No. Does it mean that if your credit is good, you couldn't get a home loan right no? No. BUT, at the corporate and government level, there is virtually NO lending going on, and that threatens to force a large number of such entities into bankruptcy and/or ceasing to pay employees and accounts payable. ns
All will be solved now and businesses can go on running on perpetual debt. Which is obviously an intelligent business model and those of us who don't run our businesses in perpetual debt have no idea what we are talking about.
I am going to feel so bad if state and local governments go bankrupt because they failed economics.
I wonder if Noel will respond.... Hmmm, doesn't look like it. Maybe its the lack of satisfaction dealing with baiters and their strawmen arguments.
"I don't have time for this. You all can continue your co-dependency posts and make yourselves feel all chummy... Frankly, you all don't represent where America is going and you might as well get used to it."
While I appreciate your position, and to be honest here, you are pretty much dead-on in you assertion that credit has all but dried up for government entities.
Setting aside the private sector for a moment, I feel there may be something you are not taking into account here, and that is this:
Many of us here hold government, particularly at the federal level, wholly responsible for the financial predicament this county now finds itself in.
Yes, there has probably been more than a little "funny business" going on on Wall Street, but it was not Wall Street that was forcing mortgage lenders to loan money to unqualified borrowers.
It was the government.
Before the "bailout" had even passed the House, the Governator was already screaming that California needed $7bil for a bailout of its own.
After all, thousands of government jobs are at stake!
For most of us, the reaction was, "so what?"
I'm sorry, but many of us are having a really difficult time generating much sympathy for people who are employed in government and may be losing their jobs over this.
What is more, we see reports on our local news stations almost daily that deal with hideously wasteful spending at the local and state levels.
As most of us know, in most instances, government jobs are pretty much
guaranteed for life. We in the private sector are far from so
fortunate.
I lost my job this past Wednesday. Nobody is lining up to bail my ass out. I am, as they say, pretty much on my own.
However, I will be back in the game at some point, and no-doubt paying higher taxes that will, in part, be used to keep government employees in high cotten, as we say here.
Why should I trouble myself worrying over a bunch of well-entrenched bureaucrats losing their jobs?
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
You ask me this question near the end of a very long day? Thanks. :-)
If this was just California, your lack of concern might be warranted. However, this problem is systemic, and is going to move to virtually all governments AND businesses. We're talking about the potential of millions being laid off just because governments, companies, and municipalities can't get short-term financing. Would that be a good thing?
What seems to be missing in the debate this weekend is that I consider myself just as libertarian as most here. However, the situation we're now in is that virtually every large employer in our country, through absolutely no fault of their own, is getting the liquidity squeezed out of it because of this financial crisis. Should we let them ALL lay off ALL of their employees and default on ALL of their accounts payable thereby guaranteeing that we go into a global depression that could last years nay decades? Would this be wise coincident with the pending retirement of millions of baby boomers expecting to receive back trillions of dollars they've paid into Social Security and Medicare?
Dave, I'm a conservative just like you. This all makes me sick. However, we really are on the verge of a total economic meltdown at precisely the wrong time in our nation's history -- just as the largest generation in our nation's history is about to retire. If we let this happen, we could see 25 percent unemployment like we did in the 30s, and economic conditions you and I never dreamed of.
Shouldn't we do something to try and stop it?
You know, if this was just about those that borrowed money to buy houses they couldn't afford taking their medicine, that would be one thing. However, there are going to be millions upon millions that will lose their jobs and their homes that have NOTHING to do with the cause of this problem. NOTHING.
Do conservative/libertarian principles mean the innocent should suffer the same fate as the guilty? If that's modern day conservatism, maybe I need to rethink my political views. ns
The problem with this crisis is the government has yet to be forthcoming as to the underlying causes of this, and in fact passed a bill that will make it worse. From what I understand they gave judges the power to set principle and interest levels on home loans, in the spirit of keeping people in their homes! This is why we are here now, so instead of giving money to ACORN they decided to make the judicial branch ACORN.
The other issue is there were much better solutions to consider, but because it was a rush job and the President giving the green light to just give him something to sign, it cause a grossly inflated law that won't really solve the problem, rather puts make up on it in the hopes that it works.
History tells us that the Great Depression was caused due to the policies of the Federal Government, FDR would of been proud of this bailout! Am I a cold hearted conservative for saying that innocent should suffer? I suppose I am, because I know that for true healing to take place, we have to have pain. Lets face it, the government and the people have gotten fat and lazy. Our manufacturing are going over seas because the Unions demand too much, or there is too much red tape, or corporate taxes are too high. Our government, and this is where I think SNL nailed President Bush for looking the fool, has increased its spending for no reasons. People weren't even asking for perscription drugs, and now its a new entitlement. Both parties are at fault, Democrats and Republicans. Democrats for giving us Fannie and Freddie, and the Republicans for not being Republicans, instead they were too busy out Democrating the Democrats. Real change will not happen unless people are motivated to change.
Congress and the President should of instead dismantle Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ( why is it we can't sue on the grounds of a Monopoly? ) into smaller institutions. Remove the requirement that they have to loan to people with bad credit. Banks in this case are over regulated, yet no one is making this case except talk radio and conservative blogs. They should lower our capital gains and corporate taxes to the lowest rate in the world. They should open every avenue for energy indepentence. And they should go on a diet. Mean while, the various large companies should get with the unions and tell them they better be more realistic, or they will close the plant down. And lastly the government should fire thousands, they need to go on a diet, and in fact pass a balance budget. They should do everything in their power to strengthen the dollar, make America a strong beacon to do honest business, remove unnecessary red tape, including their energy policy.
Look, I didn't mean to come across as a cold-hearted bastard here, but, as someone who is probably a little over a month away from having to hide my car from the repo-man (which might not be all that difficult, actually, as I may very well be living in it by then) I just can't get all teary-eyed over the plight of government employees.
While I agree that government insolvency will probably spread to a certain extent, I am not convinced that this problem will be as wide-spread as you seem to think.
It will be very interesting to see the breakdown as it relates to red state vs. blue once the dust has settled. Somehow I believe the red states are going to fare somewhat better here, but we'll see.
And even in the states that do not, I hardly think that ALL of the employees are going to be out on their respective bums. Besides, most government employee rosters are fairly well bloated when compared to those of the private sector. Might just do us all a bit of long-term good if those rosters were trimmed back somewhat.
As for the coming SS train wreck, I don't know what to say, other than that most, if not all, of the congress-critters that voted to allow SS funds to be tapped and used for "other purposes" will be dead and burried by the time the proverbial Piper comes knocking in search of his due.
Look, it took this country six decadesto get itself into this hideous mess. There is no way that one bailout bill, crammed down our throats in the space of less than a week, is going to fix it.
The market began doing a fair imitation of the Titanic even before the thing was even signed, and continued that trend right up until shortly before the closing bell sounded this afternoon, at which point it had begun to trend upward.
I'm certainly no Stock Market expert, but my guess is that, once the true pork-laden nature of the so-called "bailout bill" became known, most investors quickly realized that it wasn't worth the paper upon which it was written, and began selling in droves. I believe we will know tomorrow if the panic sellers have exhausted themselves.
Honestly, the more I am learning about this so-called bailout, the more I am convinced that it was never intended to bailout the U.S. economy so much as it was designed to bailout the buddies, friends and, most importantly, the campaign contributors of some very high-powered politicians.
What is more, these same power-bloated politicians managed to fix it so that we taxpayers would be screwed into paying for it all.
To top it all off, and this is what infuriates me to distraction, the aforementioned politicos are currently holding what I consider to be show hearings in D.C., pointing their crooked little fingers at anyone and everyone but themselves.
Yeah, I know this sounds a might conspiratorial on my part, but it is becoming increasingly difficult, at least for me, to reach a contrary conclusion.
Me thinks we have all been royally forked here. :-O
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Well, I'll admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer...but sometimes I'm the best screwdriver in the house. Come on, who hasn't used a butter knife as an emergency screwdriver. :)
Admittedly, the details of the crisis can make my head spin. However, I'm an adamant supporter of the Free Market. I'm quite certain that history is full of examples of government meddling in the Free Market and causing unintended consequences. Someone here has already mentioned that real economists, like Milton Friedman, have already determined that FDR actually took a significant but normal correction in the market and turned it into the Great Depression by his meddling.
When in doubt, I always fall back on first principles. I'm quite certain that history shows that the times we have deviated from the intentions of the Founding Fathers has resulted in nothing but problems. I see no reason to deviate even more from the Constitution in order to fix a problem caused by deviating from it in the first place.
Some day we all have to pay for our mistakes and just putting the pain off further in the future just makes the total pain worse.
In my previous post, I suggested what that future pain might be.
If Obama wins the election, God have mercy on us all.
Heck, I have enough trouble selecting from the menu at the local "We Only Serve One Thing" franchise. Not only that, there's no "who cares, all of my money is tied up in firearms and ammunition" to choose from the list. I guess I'll just have to pass on this one.
DEMS luv this economy, economy down the drains, Americans luv it so they can hate the republicans. "It's POWER, stupid" !!
ever since Clinton the president maverick, economy zar started 'It's economy stupid!' , America is stupid economy on every presidential election. loss of jobs? Lending frozen, stocks plummet ? hohoho
It's the bigger scheme every 4 years, an American Sabbatical, a royal flush !!! IF YOU ARE NOT DOWN THE DRAIN, no play, no fun.
I don't know. It's been such a disgusting three weeks, I don't know what to think anymore. And, every tick down in stocks is also a tick up for Obama in the polls. So, we're not only losing money, we're also heading closer to losing the election.
Yes, our dollar has been screaming. Interesting flight to quality as the markets perceive America the safest bet. Haven't seen a lot of reporting on that, have you?
Of course, this may also just be part of a huge hedge fund unwinding of previously successful positions that are now going against them. Remember that for several years, the new "carry" trade was to be short the dollar, and long things like oil, gold, silver, etc. As that's no longer working, the hedgies are being forced to cover both sides.
It appears that it's going to be another bumpy week. It's really getting exhausting. ns
I follow almost all that you say except the "new carry trade"...which is fine, you need not explain it to me...
Noel, I never have pretended to be anymore than what I am, I try to learn in the little time I have about Wall Street since the Clinton Admin. and did I start to learn a mindful...you bet you... oops, should of said you betcha'...
Anyway, I want all hard-working people to make it just fine, I just do not think politically speaking and yes, financially how angry real people out here are angry at McCain, King of Anti-Pork to vote for this...
If anybody does not understand why his poll numbers are going down, then they are blind.
You cannot keep sticking us in the eye.
I was finally, going to hold my nose and vote for him...no more.
Btw...No, for the most part I have heard very little about the dollar gaining here in the msm...with the exception of early morning hours from European reporters on the stock shows.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~Rush Limbaugh
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
I can't influence the
October 5, 2008 - 13:56 ET by ThisnThatI can't influence the market. I am in for the long-term, and have to suffer the loses. I will tell you, though, that I am sick and tired of hearing the word "investor" (which is what I am) used where "trader" should be used. I'm also tired of seeing my investments influenced by margin traders, and those that only have to put up 1% to borrow 100% in the hopes of a quick gain. I'm tired of hearing an "investment" firm make an announcement that causes the "market" to turn negative on a dime.
I'm all for wall street reform. And I'd like to see the reform re-orient towards investors, and away from traders. If traders want to play in an investment market, they need to have incentives to stay longer, and dis-incentives to trade hourly, daily, by-the-minute. I'd like to see tax penalties for short-term traders; and no taxes for long-term investors. That way, maybe the markets turn to be less a gambler's dream, and more of an investor's place.
This is especially true in the world of 401Ks, where we, the individual, have to rely upon 401Ks for our financial future. My 401K, for example, doesn't allow me to re-trade my money for 7 days. If I'm under that type of restriction, why can't I demand the same for wall street?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
»→ Stocks rise < 5%
October 5, 2008 - 14:17 ET by Cool ArrowBut not for long.
Great time to jump in and out for a few days.
"John McCain has not talked about my Muslim Faith" - Barack Hussein Obama
Who knows?
October 5, 2008 - 14:23 ET by mattmIf the markets were based on something substantive, you could predict this.
If the government keeps printing money and devaluing the dollar by basically buying devalued mortgages - which is practically what they're doing, it's not going to matter if stock prices go up - they will still be worth less than they were before.
Lending will stay frozen
October 5, 2008 - 14:27 ET by TjexciteLending will stay frozen but, there will be a big rally up in the market. Loans will still be hard to get and in the end the ballot will have no effect in solving the credit market but it will help get the One elected by keeping the economy front and center.
Lending isn't frozen.
October 5, 2008 - 15:14 ET by GregELending isn't frozen.
It might not be frozen but
October 5, 2008 - 16:27 ET by TjexciteIt might not be frozen but, the MSM will push that it is and getting one will be harder for any one on main steet.
This is another trick question from an economist mind
October 5, 2008 - 15:30 ET by Lame CherryNewsbusters knows full well that of the answers above, many are correct depending upon which day of the week it is.
It is in the interest of the Obama financiers to worry people with bad economic hits, so there will no doubt be pressure on the markets to continue the doom and gloom to scare people with no sense in Ohio and Pennsylvania as this is where this 9 11 economic attack is aimed at, along with the target of Jewish voters on the east coast.
Worry them and they will trend to Obama.
Buffett will need to continue his nation raping along with Soros to skim the markets of all the cash he can before this phase dries up and he has to move to getting his hands on that $700 billion in this bogus deal.
It is in their interest to scare segment voters, but to promote a feeling of things will be well so people go into debt for the post election X mas buying spree.
There will be of course select plunderings. One will occur the day of the McCain Obama debate just like one was engineered for the Palin Biden debate.
Massive profits will be taken from the market on that day and on the next when Obama is proclaimed the winner for loosing, the markets will rise again as the same financiers buy back stocks they sold at a profit.
This is all staged and literal economic terrorism and it is past time the big shot pundits on radio started nailing this as Obama is the reason it is happening.
So there will be many macro factors involved in this week on a strangling of the economy on days for Obama just like the fuel shortages and pricing went up for Obama.
The Europeans are using their personal money now in these massive fluctations on a daily basis to create this propaganda story the Gibson, Williams and Couric will run with every night.
What is the reason no one on the right is exposing this.
PS I did not vote in the above as it has to be more than one and sometimes parts of others depending on the day of the week in the manipulation.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
There sure have been a
October 5, 2008 - 15:31 ET by ckc1227There sure have been a lot of car commercials the past 2 days considering there is a lending freeze in place.
Obama's Economic plan: more taxes, more spending, more regulation. Prosperity here we come.
Crisis-to-crisis
October 5, 2008 - 15:40 ET by Joe C.What crisis is there going to be this week to justify government take over of some part of the economy? What's going to be the excuse this week, when the market tanks. "Oh, we didn't say it was definitely going to work."
it's a lot of b.s.
October 5, 2008 - 16:00 ET by larry on LIthe politician's have spun the fear factor out of control to avoid any blame being directed at their actions on the bailout.if you have a good credit rating there is no problem with getting a loan at a fair rate.my daughter and husbandin pa. just purchased a new 28ft. camper and 08 ford suv last week and had no problem getting financing at a fair rate.we , as voters, have to make a concerted effort to limit our political reprsentatives two a maximumof two terms. it will stop the corruption P.D.Q.
The spiritual root cause of America's economic woes
October 5, 2008 - 16:19 ET by garyganuThe US economy is living off the wealth of a previous era by liquidating entire industries, and allowing infrastructure to fall into disrepair. We are also borrowing from the future with huge budget deficits, in order to finance today. It is clear to me that this can not go on indefinitely. This is the exact opposite direction we need to go in as a country. We need to live within our means as a nation and as individuals. We need to encourage, manufacturing, exploiting our natural resources, and producing food and energy, not more casinos and nail salons. Saving should be encouraged, not borrowing to buy extravagant things beyond our means. Personal debts as well as the national debt must be payed off.
There are tens of millions of people who manage their finances properly. They carry the economic burden of this nation on their back. The top ten percent of all wage earners pay over 70% of federal income taxes. Soon their backs will no longer be able to carry the load. If our government and citizens do not manage their finances, we will undoubtedly devolve into a corrupt and impoverished third world nation with a huge peasant class. Step back and look at the big picture, I see no other outcome.
The bible says: in times of plenty, we must prepare for famine. Simple? Yes. Can this simple root cause, lead to economic devastation? Certainly
The Spiritual Root Cause of America's Economic Woes.
Folks, the downdraft has
October 5, 2008 - 17:35 ET by dscottFolks, the downdraft has begun, a world wide recession is now in the offing because of the stupidity of Congress choosing a quick fix instead of actually attacking the roots of the problem. The only comfort I can offer you in the short term is Europe and it Socialist prattling idiots will be the first under the knife of reality.
<i>Hypo Real Estate, Germany's second largest real estate lender, teeters on the verge of collapse. The bank has a €400 billion balance sheet, which would make for a failure of a similar scale to Lehman's (Hypo's footings are roughly $550 billion, while Lehman's were $660 billion as of its last balance sheet date).
Even though Hypo it technically a bank, it is not a depositary institution, so rescuing it poses similar difficulties (procedural and political) to the authorities as Bear and Lehman did in the US. The financial system cannot take another body blow of this magnitude. The authorities had better patch this one up over the weekend, or we face even more credit market panic on Monday.
And if that weren't an ugly enough picture, the failure to salvage Hypo has even broader ramifications. From Marshall Auerbach, independent global strategist who does consultancy for a number of funds, and sometimes financial commentator, </i>
http://www.nakedcapi... Read'em and weep.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Lending Freeze? Where?
October 5, 2008 - 19:15 ET by dcullingAs far as I can tell there isn't and never was a lending freeze. Therefore there are no correct answers for me to choose.
Has anyone here had any problem getting credit? Has anyone here had their credit card company call them and tell them their credit limit was reduced?
For the second part I believe stocks will fluctuate in the short term with a general decline in the long term.
As more is learned about all the loopholes in the bill that benefit Leftists the more it will be understood just how much of the market has been socialized and stocks will decline.
Are Freddy and Fanny out of business now? Of course not, Google them and see.
If Obama wins the election there will be no way to restrain the Democrats since they will be the majority in the House and Senate.
When the Progressives passed the 17th amendment they politicized the Senate which made it just as partisan as the House. The Founding Fathers intended the Senate to be elected by the state legislators and serve only one term of 6 years which would have kept them somewhat insulated from the pressures of re-election and partisanship.
If one party controls the House, Senate and Presidency there are, essentially, no checks and balances left anymore
Democrats will unite and use the control and power over the market we just gave them to gain even more control and power. 840 billion bothers you? You ain't seen nuthin yet.
If Obama wins I fully expect an orchestrated depression which will be the excuse to grant him and the Democrats in Congress even greater unconstitutional powers with the MSM a willing accomplice, convincing the masses how necessary it all is. Of course one of the first things they will do is stack the Supreme Court with Liberal Marxists.
I can't wait for Obama's Potemkin Village where we all live in peace and harmony under his omniscience and omnipotence.
This is all just a big exaggeration...isn't it?
I agree for the most part,
October 5, 2008 - 20:00 ET by bigtimerI agree for the most part, from what I am capable of understanding, being just a simple gal that tries her best to keep up with what is going on or expressing my views...
Go here...and here.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
dc
October 5, 2008 - 20:45 ET by Noel Shepparddc,
Are you serious? So you haven't heard that banks are refusing to lend to one another thereby making it impossible for companies and governments to get short-term financing? You haven't seen LIBOR rates at their highest in history as a result? Or our Federal funds rate MUCH higher than the Fed target as a result?
This is currently what the crisis is all about.
Now, does that mean that you can't go into a car dealer right now and get a loan? No. Does it mean that if your credit is good, you couldn't get a home loan right no? No. BUT, at the corporate and government level, there is virtually NO lending going on, and that threatens to force a large number of such entities into bankruptcy and/or ceasing to pay employees and accounts payable. ns
No Worries Noel the Bailout went through!
October 5, 2008 - 21:59 ET by PopularTechAll will be solved now and businesses can go on running on perpetual debt. Which is obviously an intelligent business model and those of us who don't run our businesses in perpetual debt have no idea what we are talking about.
I am going to feel so bad if state and local governments go bankrupt because they failed economics.
I wonder if Noel will
October 5, 2008 - 23:31 ET by contraryI wonder if Noel will respond.... Hmmm, doesn't look like it. Maybe its the lack of satisfaction dealing with baiters and their strawmen arguments.
"I don't have time for this. You all can continue your co-dependency posts and make yourselves feel all chummy... Frankly, you all don't represent where America is going and you might as well get used to it."
--The "Dooper
Noel,
October 5, 2008 - 23:34 ET by R D HelmWhile I appreciate your position, and to be honest here, you are pretty much dead-on in you assertion that credit has all but dried up for government entities.
Setting aside the private sector for a moment, I feel there may be something you are not taking into account here, and that is this:
Many of us here hold government, particularly at the federal level, wholly responsible for the financial predicament this county now finds itself in.
Yes, there has probably been more than a little "funny business" going on on Wall Street, but it was not Wall Street that was forcing mortgage lenders to loan money to unqualified borrowers.
It was the government.
Before the "bailout" had even passed the House, the Governator was already screaming that California needed $7bil for a bailout of its own.
After all, thousands of government jobs are at stake!
For most of us, the reaction was, "so what?"
I'm sorry, but many of us are having a really difficult time generating much sympathy for people who are employed in government and may be losing their jobs over this.
What is more, we see reports on our local news stations almost daily that deal with hideously wasteful spending at the local and state levels.
As most of us know, in most instances, government jobs are pretty much
guaranteed for life. We in the private sector are far from so
fortunate.
I lost my job this past Wednesday. Nobody is lining up to bail my ass out. I am, as they say, pretty much on my own.
However, I will be back in the game at some point, and no-doubt paying higher taxes that will, in part, be used to keep government employees in high cotten, as we say here.
Why should I trouble myself worrying over a bunch of well-entrenched bureaucrats losing their jobs?
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Dave
October 5, 2008 - 23:36 ET by Noel SheppardDave,
You ask me this question near the end of a very long day? Thanks. :-)
If this was just California, your lack of concern might be warranted. However, this problem is systemic, and is going to move to virtually all governments AND businesses. We're talking about the potential of millions being laid off just because governments, companies, and municipalities can't get short-term financing. Would that be a good thing?
What seems to be missing in the debate this weekend is that I consider myself just as libertarian as most here. However, the situation we're now in is that virtually every large employer in our country, through absolutely no fault of their own, is getting the liquidity squeezed out of it because of this financial crisis. Should we let them ALL lay off ALL of their employees and default on ALL of their accounts payable thereby guaranteeing that we go into a global depression that could last years nay decades? Would this be wise coincident with the pending retirement of millions of baby boomers expecting to receive back trillions of dollars they've paid into Social Security and Medicare?
Dave, I'm a conservative just like you. This all makes me sick. However, we really are on the verge of a total economic meltdown at precisely the wrong time in our nation's history -- just as the largest generation in our nation's history is about to retire. If we let this happen, we could see 25 percent unemployment like we did in the 30s, and economic conditions you and I never dreamed of.
Shouldn't we do something to try and stop it?
You know, if this was just about those that borrowed money to buy houses they couldn't afford taking their medicine, that would be one thing. However, there are going to be millions upon millions that will lose their jobs and their homes that have NOTHING to do with the cause of this problem. NOTHING.
Do conservative/libertarian principles mean the innocent should suffer the same fate as the guilty? If that's modern day conservatism, maybe I need to rethink my political views. ns
Socialism is never the answer
October 6, 2008 - 02:55 ET by Conservative VoiceThe problem with this crisis is the government has yet to be forthcoming as to the underlying causes of this, and in fact passed a bill that will make it worse. From what I understand they gave judges the power to set principle and interest levels on home loans, in the spirit of keeping people in their homes! This is why we are here now, so instead of giving money to ACORN they decided to make the judicial branch ACORN.
The other issue is there were much better solutions to consider, but because it was a rush job and the President giving the green light to just give him something to sign, it cause a grossly inflated law that won't really solve the problem, rather puts make up on it in the hopes that it works.
History tells us that the Great Depression was caused due to the policies of the Federal Government, FDR would of been proud of this bailout! Am I a cold hearted conservative for saying that innocent should suffer? I suppose I am, because I know that for true healing to take place, we have to have pain. Lets face it, the government and the people have gotten fat and lazy. Our manufacturing are going over seas because the Unions demand too much, or there is too much red tape, or corporate taxes are too high. Our government, and this is where I think SNL nailed President Bush for looking the fool, has increased its spending for no reasons. People weren't even asking for perscription drugs, and now its a new entitlement. Both parties are at fault, Democrats and Republicans. Democrats for giving us Fannie and Freddie, and the Republicans for not being Republicans, instead they were too busy out Democrating the Democrats. Real change will not happen unless people are motivated to change.
Congress and the President should of instead dismantle Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ( why is it we can't sue on the grounds of a Monopoly? ) into smaller institutions. Remove the requirement that they have to loan to people with bad credit. Banks in this case are over regulated, yet no one is making this case except talk radio and conservative blogs. They should lower our capital gains and corporate taxes to the lowest rate in the world. They should open every avenue for energy indepentence. And they should go on a diet. Mean while, the various large companies should get with the unions and tell them they better be more realistic, or they will close the plant down. And lastly the government should fire thousands, they need to go on a diet, and in fact pass a balance budget. They should do everything in their power to strengthen the dollar, make America a strong beacon to do honest business, remove unnecessary red tape, including their energy policy.
Noel,
October 6, 2008 - 22:37 ET by R D HelmLook, I didn't mean to come across as a cold-hearted bastard here, but, as someone who is probably a little over a month away from having to hide my car from the repo-man (which might not be all that difficult, actually, as I may very well be living in it by then) I just can't get all teary-eyed over the plight of government employees.
While I agree that government insolvency will probably spread to a certain extent, I am not convinced that this problem will be as wide-spread as you seem to think.
It will be very interesting to see the breakdown as it relates to red state vs. blue once the dust has settled. Somehow I believe the red states are going to fare somewhat better here, but we'll see.
And even in the states that do not, I hardly think that ALL of the employees are going to be out on their respective bums. Besides, most government employee rosters are fairly well bloated when compared to those of the private sector. Might just do us all a bit of long-term good if those rosters were trimmed back somewhat.
As for the coming SS train wreck, I don't know what to say, other than that most, if not all, of the congress-critters that voted to allow SS funds to be tapped and used for "other purposes" will be dead and burried by the time the proverbial Piper comes knocking in search of his due.
Look, it took this country six decadesto get itself into this hideous mess. There is no way that one bailout bill, crammed down our throats in the space of less than a week, is going to fix it.
The market began doing a fair imitation of the Titanic even before the thing was even signed, and continued that trend right up until shortly before the closing bell sounded this afternoon, at which point it had begun to trend upward.
I'm certainly no Stock Market expert, but my guess is that, once the true pork-laden nature of the so-called "bailout bill" became known, most investors quickly realized that it wasn't worth the paper upon which it was written, and began selling in droves. I believe we will know tomorrow if the panic sellers have exhausted themselves.
Honestly, the more I am learning about this so-called bailout, the more I am convinced that it was never intended to bailout the U.S. economy so much as it was designed to bailout the buddies, friends and, most importantly, the campaign contributors of some very high-powered politicians.
What is more, these same power-bloated politicians managed to fix it so that we taxpayers would be screwed into paying for it all.
To top it all off, and this is what infuriates me to distraction, the aforementioned politicos are currently holding what I consider to be show hearings in D.C., pointing their crooked little fingers at anyone and everyone but themselves.
Yeah, I know this sounds a might conspiratorial on my part, but it is becoming increasingly difficult, at least for me, to reach a contrary conclusion.
Me thinks we have all been royally forked here. :-O
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Well,...
October 6, 2008 - 04:26 ET by dcullingWell, I'll admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer...but sometimes I'm the best screwdriver in the house. Come on, who hasn't used a butter knife as an emergency screwdriver. :)
Admittedly, the details of the crisis can make my head spin. However, I'm an adamant supporter of the Free Market. I'm quite certain that history is full of examples of government meddling in the Free Market and causing unintended consequences. Someone here has already mentioned that real economists, like Milton Friedman, have already determined that FDR actually took a significant but normal correction in the market and turned it into the Great Depression by his meddling.
When in doubt, I always fall back on first principles. I'm quite certain that history shows that the times we have deviated from the intentions of the Founding Fathers has resulted in nothing but problems. I see no reason to deviate even more from the Constitution in order to fix a problem caused by deviating from it in the first place.
Some day we all have to pay for our mistakes and just putting the pain off further in the future just makes the total pain worse.
In my previous post, I suggested what that future pain might be.
If Obama wins the election, God have mercy on us all.
Too many choices
October 5, 2008 - 21:03 ET by viluzionHeck, I have enough trouble selecting from the menu at the local "We Only Serve One Thing" franchise. Not only that, there's no "who cares, all of my money is tied up in firearms and ammunition" to choose from the list. I guess I'll just have to pass on this one.
vil... That is exactly
October 5, 2008 - 22:08 ET by bigtimervil...
That is exactly what I did...this list is sad.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
DEMS: 'it's POWER, stupid'
October 5, 2008 - 21:05 ET by annTDEMS luv this economy, economy down the drains, Americans luv it so they can hate the republicans. "It's POWER, stupid" !!
ever since Clinton the president maverick, economy zar started 'It's economy stupid!' , America is stupid economy on every presidential election. loss of jobs? Lending frozen, stocks plummet ? hohoho
It's the bigger scheme every 4 years, an American Sabbatical, a royal flush !!! IF YOU ARE NOT DOWN THE DRAIN, no play, no fun.
NBers
October 5, 2008 - 22:22 ET by Noel SheppardNBers,
Markets opening lower around the world by about 3 percent: http://finance.yahoo...
It's gonna be another long Monday. ns
Dont care,
October 5, 2008 - 22:27 ET by general companyI am not donating MY last Billion.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Evenin' Noel...did you
October 5, 2008 - 22:29 ET by bigtimerEvenin' Noel...did you think it was going to be anything different?
Really?
who knows though...I have seen our markets turn the rest of the world around at a whim...
It's how you play the game, only now the real chickens are coming home to roost...it is an eventuality that has to happen.
...at least our dollar is strengthening last I saw...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT
October 5, 2008 - 22:41 ET by Noel SheppardBT,
Good evening.
I don't know. It's been such a disgusting three weeks, I don't know what to think anymore. And, every tick down in stocks is also a tick up for Obama in the polls. So, we're not only losing money, we're also heading closer to losing the election.
Yes, our dollar has been screaming. Interesting flight to quality as the markets perceive America the safest bet. Haven't seen a lot of reporting on that, have you?
Of course, this may also just be part of a huge hedge fund unwinding of previously successful positions that are now going against them. Remember that for several years, the new "carry" trade was to be short the dollar, and long things like oil, gold, silver, etc. As that's no longer working, the hedgies are being forced to cover both sides.
It appears that it's going to be another bumpy week. It's really getting exhausting. ns
I follow almost all that
October 5, 2008 - 23:15 ET by bigtimerI follow almost all that you say except the "new carry trade"...which is fine, you need not explain it to me...
Noel, I never have pretended to be anymore than what I am, I try to learn in the little time I have about Wall Street since the Clinton Admin. and did I start to learn a mindful...you bet you... oops, should of said you betcha'...
Anyway, I want all hard-working people to make it just fine, I just do not think politically speaking and yes, financially how angry real people out here are angry at McCain, King of Anti-Pork to vote for this...
If anybody does not understand why his poll numbers are going down, then they are blind.
You cannot keep sticking us in the eye.
I was finally, going to hold my nose and vote for him...no more.
Btw...No, for the most part I have heard very little about the dollar gaining here in the msm...with the exception of early morning hours from European reporters on the stock shows.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Where's the Ron Paul
October 6, 2008 - 01:17 ET by wiwfWhere's the Ron Paul option?
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
Socialism Drives Away Investors
October 6, 2008 - 10:30 ET by NBFYou mean the government turning into a socialistic kleptocracy is hurting investor confidence?
I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
STOCK MARKET DECLINE
October 8, 2008 - 00:35 ET by RRStubbsMy advisors are predicting a 2200 pt drop before bottom. Some are advising that the floor is in the 5500 pt range.