Where is the option for Bailout Passes, causing Hyperinflation and Market Crashes anyway?
The Dem 'provisions' are insane, they want to regulate CEO salaries which have NOTHING to do with anything. Clinton was talking today about insuring more bad mortgages. LMAO!
"When Hoover finally took over the White House, he followed his own advice, and made it an engine of interference, first pumping more credit into an already overheated economy and, then, when the bubble burst, doing everything in his power to organize government rescue operations."
Dems sit on their hands (as usual), the market self-corrects (as it should, if left alone), and the Dems take credit for preventing Bush's "hysterical" over-reaction.
Some advice to the GOP, the Democratic provisions are reasonable as awarding CEO's is a no win situation.
Trump the Democrats on the bill and let them know that if they do not the GOP tact will be slum lord Pelosi and Obama as the charges for holding this up as both were profitting off of the poor.
Do the deal and move on to the real matters, drill baby drill John Thune.
"This is the de facto nationalization of the entire banking,
insurance and related financial system..That's right - every
bank and other financial institution in the United States has
just become a de-facto organ of the United States Government, if
Hank Paulson thinks they should be, and he may order them to do
virtually anything that he claims is in furtherance of this
act.....The bill gives Paulson the ability to nationalize
unlimited amount of private debt and force you and your children
to pay for it."
What really makes me angry is that my family and I are debt free, except for a mortgage. We have about 75% to 78% equity on the property we own.
We live our lives debt free. We make sacrifices to stay out of debt.
It really ticks me off that my hard earned income is going to bail out these losers who have not kept up with their loan payments. Oh, I'm sure some bleeding heart will dig up anecdotal evidence of some hard working coal miner struggling with medical bills, etc., and is losing his house.
A large part of the defaults are speculators and a larger part are people who had no business owning property in the first place.
Most of the loan defaults I've witnessed (I've seen several) are actually middle class people. But, they've foregone responsibility and bought boats and Sea Doos and motorcycles and every googaw and whimmydiddle they could charge on a credit card or take out a home equity line of credit to buy.
I've seen neighbors suffer this fate. Basically, those folks want the government to subsidize their profligate lifestyle. Some are upside down on home loans (with adjustable rates) and upside down on a pair of car loans.
Call me cold hearted, but I have little compassion for them.
I guess part of me thought I would laugh longest when their bubble burst (I'm not a class envy guy, either), but I suppose they will laugh longest when they are let out of their obligation to pay for their homes.
I've never been more angry at the United States government than I am now. I've never been less of a Republican than I am at this moment.
I've lived my life within my means. My reward is to be shaken down by the oppressive hand of government to pay the bill for the profligates.
So, they may not raise my taxes (just wait until the Obamunists take power), but they will devalue my currency.
I voted none of the above because we just have no way of knowing...I feel it will be a mixture...I do not think it will pass, the dems always add in what they want, the msm will blame the whoever they can with an 'R' after their name, and life will go on.
I am still furious from long ago about the looking the other way when it came to Fannie/Freddie ect. I posted about it quite a bit way back when here and there..it was huge then, it still is...the msm ignored it because of the dems involved and the contributions the company made let alone the protection of Raines/Gorelick/Johnson and others...all Clinton appts.
Enron had nothing compared to Freddie/Fannie.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~Rush Limbaugh
The plan will pass with Democrat provisions added, then a few years down the road,we'll be right back here again because nothing has been done to address the actual problem.
"If something passes with too much leftist BS included I think the President will veto it."
Maybe, BT. We can hope. Something will pass eventually though, and it will likely do nothing to address the cause. Until those issues are addressed, there will be another bailout within the next 10-20 years for the same reason
I agree that the bill will pass, probably with a few provisions. If the Dem's block anything from passing they'd be taking a huge chance. If the markets collapse, they might try to blame Bush and the MSM my try to go along with that. But, it'll be a hard sell for them if the Prez' offered a plan (even a bad one) and the Dems refused to do anything at all. The press is certainly leftist, but they are also two faced and opportunistic. If public sentiment turns on the Dems the press might just go along for the ride and start fanning the flames.
I voted none of the above because there was no all of the above.
Step 1: The bill will fail either through lack of action or excesive pork. Either way, the bill fails.
Step 2: Pelosi gets to go on vacation again! Really reaching across isles isn't she?
Step 3: A short term dip in the market fuels the fire for everyone that wants to blame President Bush for not personally approving every mortgage application.
Step 4: Cooler heads prevail on Wall st and the market stabilizes.
Step 5: MSM credits Pelosi for being brave and or smart enough to do nothing (again)!
I agree with your summation for the most part...the House will get whatever they want passed because they can...it's the Senate that will hold it up if it isn't a clean bill in my opinion.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~Rush Limbaugh
The problem is, the situation we are looking at is not affected by the stock market. We are looking at a meltdown that can operate separately from how well the stock market seems to perform. A situation where companies try to borrow money and can't. They can't borrow, then they can't pay and thus trickle down economics is a very bad way. Confidence in the banking system goes away. Stock Market response would be a lagging indicator. Sure the bailouts are bad. But we bought this as our only option a long time ago from the idiots we (Americans) elected to Congress.
Pelosi will have to cave if she hopes to hold seats and she'll have to redo the drilling restrictions bill. Pelosi/Reed are so inept; were they to exhibit any sense they'd stop listening to their own party and pay attention to the capitalist side of the aisle ... good luck in getting an EEG blip from those two lame brains.
win a few seats IF they demanded Senator Dodd & Rep. Frank step down IMMEDIATELY! And IF they started an investigation - say on the level of their grilling of the oil companies - of the present and former Fannie & Freddie executives!!!!
I'd be willing to put down my last $$ in a bet on this one! Neither of them will do ONE THING!
I don't see how the plan is anything so different from what Hugo Chavez would come up with. I am disgusted that people who f'd things up will be enriched, either with dollars (which would be my preference), or votes. Throw the bums out and let the correction take place. It's going to happen after the looting anyway.
P.S. I'm sorry to say that Dianna DeGette is the person who 'represents' me in Congress. There is little consolation in letting a moron like her know what I think, but I did e-mail her.
Politicians are going to pretend like they're interested in "fixing" the problem so they will pass just about anything right about now. I don't believe that the competence exists among Democrats nor Republicans to solve this problem.
As usual, there are too many politicians who are too inept to foresee problems until they reach a state of crisis. For example, nothing will happen to Socialist Security until it is a crisis. That's why government should not be as big as it is. It is too big to be managed properly by politicians, many of whom are underqualified for these jobs, and many of whom are more interested in reelection than solving problems that they created.
Inept, You really think so? They have the same info. at their fingertips as we do. Let me suggest a possible more sinister alternative: that keeping people in a crisis management mode plays much easier to the Dems hands since their agenda is socialism. By creating the crisis that only the "government" can solve, the natural solution is socialism. E.g. AGW, a faux climate crisis to get people to accept higher taxes and more government control of their lives. Mortgage crisis, created by Dem crony controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac thus nationalizing the mortgage industry and undermining the securities industry. The current bailout again a government solution which in effect redistributes wealth by the government owning foreclosed properties which will be parceled out how? To the lowest bidder under favorable terms...guaranteed by the government. Next comes Social Security, stonewalling until 2017 or so the Dems create the next crisis when "something must be done to secure seniors retirement." just like under Reagan when the Dems pulled a fast one with the so called rescue of SS. They didn't rescue SS, they simply jacked up the taxes to cover the shortage for 20 years so they in the meantime could steal the tax money and spend it on vote buying social programs they called "investments". Otherwise, if they had separated SS from the budget while raising the SS tax and then forced "investment" of the excess receipts as every pension fund does, there would be no looming SS financial crisis.
To normal people, a politician not telling the truth and spending your taxes like a drunken sailor is inept, to cynical people who take off the blinders of "expectation of responsibility" and review the facts, we see a disturbing pattern of behavior which points to a well formed plan to make America a Socialist country.
btw- that was my conspiracy theory of the week. Of course our counter move is NOT to charge Democrats with a conspiracy otherwise we would look like loons to the moderates because they just wouldn't believe anyone is so vile as to hurt people just to get what they wanted. Our counter move is to charge Dems with INCOMPETENCE! Only an incompetent person would not forsee the mortgage crisis. That charge is believable by the moderates and independents of the country.
I posted the article on a blog this morning, well worth one's time. How the libs created the crisis, bled it dry, and will continue to do so with additional taxpayer funding. All roads lead to Fannie/Freddie.
Or as my dad said more than once, "And do 'you know what' in one hand and hope in the other, see which fills up faster." He actually was a lot smarter than I thought at the time.
Can anyone give me a hint as to where I could find some details of the bailout? Everyone has been so vague as to what the bailout is about. I assume it may be because no one understands it fully yet.
I would like to find a website or something that will give us details of the plan in plain Englis.
The Treasury Secretary Paulson thinks that bailing out failing investment banks and GSE mortgage lenders will prevent the whole the U.S. banking system from effectively collapsing due to the housing bubble. All this will do is cause hyperinflation and it will crash anyway.
"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are
non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be
reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
Have no fear they will give these powers back when the emergency is over.
These are not brave legislatures how close are we to the Presidential Election. They can't afford a mis step, they have their Nominees to worry about, without having to explain complicated damage control to angry voters. No, Not Brave at all. How many times has this congress caved in, and the Democrats are in the majority.
poptech. I buy and sell foreclosures and there are always thousands of them in every state in the union. This has gone on since the beginning of the mortgage market. Get rid of Fannie, Freddie, FHA, and HUD. There are entrepreneurs and developers that will always buy the bargains. I can't understand why people keep turning to the gov't, when everyone knows the gov't can't run anything right(except maybe the military). Give the power back to the states. Make the Fed as small as possible. With 50 states competing for people and businesses, everyone will win.
I spent 12yrs in the industry, the majority with high end PBX MAN equipment (AA/VM, T3..., 1 mainframe for central loc...). After Bell was split, it took no time to blow open the market with our products.
Bell left St Louis long ago. ATT just wrote saying they are out of the CO business, probably too many cells.
You have a very good example, private industry works.
But, if you insist on Bush 'fixing' it, then I suppose he could declare Marshal Law and have those in Congress responsible, like Dodd and Frank, taken outside the Capital Building and shot.
Bush submits the budget but I clearly said he should call for reducing income taxes. I never said I insist on Bush fixing the problem but isn't that what he is trying to do? If you think this has nothing to do with Bush then you need to read this:
"Bush is determined to end the bias against people who want to buy a home but don't have any money."
- A White House Fact Sheet issued June 17, 2002, declared that Bush's agenda "will help tear down the barriers to homeownership that stand in the way of our nation's African-American, Hispanic and other minority families. ... The single biggest barrier to homeownership is accumulating funds for a down payment."
- Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher said in January 2004 that "the White House doesn't think those who can afford the monthly payment but have been unable to save for a down payment should be deprived from owning a home," National Mortgage News reported.
- While zero-downpayment mortgages have long been considered profoundly unsafe (especially for borrowers with dubious credit history), Weicher confidently asserted: "We do not anticipate any costs to taxpayers."
They think based on imaginary figures that they can repackable and resell bad debt to people who have no money to buy it. These debts need to be liquidated not socialized. Yes some people are going to lose their homes and yes people are going to lose their jobs but that is unavoidable now. Those people made those bad decisions with the help of socialism and 'compassionate' conservatism.
Bernanke, Paulson and Cox should be fired immediately, if not sooner. Especially Paulson.
The more I am reading and hearing about this, the more it is looking like Paulson is attempting to use the federal government to force us to bail out his clearly imcompetent Wall Street buddies.
The sad thing is, according to a radio show I was listening to on the way home, is that foreign banks, if regulated by the U.S., could qualify. If a foreign bank is doing business in the U.S., they could get our tax money too. Unbelievable!!!
This damn plan by Paulson is worth $700 BILLION, and it is only about three pages long. My truck loan required more paperwork.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Paulson is trying to ramrod this thing through as quickly as possible to protect his "friends". The dems are only trying to get their kickbacks in before passing this garbage. And NOBODY seems to be trying to stop this.
As I said above, if foreign banks bought these bad loans, then they will be bailed out of them as well. OUR TAX DOLLARS going to FOREIGN BANKS!!!!
I'm so pissed about this, I could spit nails.
BTW, this whole debacle reminds of two little words I have a growing appreciation for: TERM LIMITS. These numbskulls get way too fat and happy fuc$#%g up our country like this.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
...but I am beginning to think that we have all been had, and not just by the democrats.
It appears there is a movement afoot to put the crew back in charge of the Titanic after the fact, if you get my drift.
This bailout has to be stopped. Should it go through, and once it is combined with the un-funded mandates that only God himself knows what the total cost will be to us tax-paying saps (and that is exactly what we are) we could be looking at the total financial collapse of the U.S.
It's not paranoia if they are really after you. We are getting screwed by both sides here, one for greed, and one out of pure stupidity. No vaseline, and very painful.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
You fogot the "more of the same" option. I wonder if maybe we shouldn't get together, go to Wash. and put our hands out. After all, I'm sure we could all use the newest and bestest computers available, maybe even a Mac and PC for each of us. This is important work being done here. We should demand at least a trillion, as that seems to be the going rate. Whatever is left over after the computers and hard drives are paid for, can just be distributed equally amongst us NB regulars via govt. check. :/
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
The usual will happen: It passes, but before it passes the Democrats and perhaps the congressional RINOs will add a lot of crap to it, Bush will love the result and sign it into law.
the last. If the gov't does this it's the end. I say let the markets take the hit, and unfortunately the people as well. We will not be alone in the misery. The rest of the world is tied to us so closely that everyone will suffer. China will lose it's largest customer as American companies reset and start manufacturing at home again. If the gov't bails out the financials, they are just going to create another artificial bubble that will be even more devastating down the road. Let the market correct. We will suffer, but not as long as we would if they bail 'em out and kick this disaster down the road.
Comments Policy
Leftist Win
September 22, 2008 - 11:52 ET by JDWBailout translation: Government can operate our economy better than our market.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
You cannot argue with an idiot.
Where is the option for Passes, Hyperinflation, Market Crashes?
September 22, 2008 - 16:38 ET by PopularTechWhere is the option for Bailout Passes, causing Hyperinflation and Market Crashes anyway?
The Dem 'provisions' are insane, they want to regulate CEO salaries which have NOTHING to do with anything. Clinton was talking today about insuring more bad mortgages. LMAO!
Where is the option for Second Great Depression?
September 22, 2008 - 16:40 ET by PopularTechAmerica's Great Depression (PDF)
"When Hoover finally took over the White House, he followed his own advice, and made it an engine of interference, first pumping more credit into an already overheated economy and, then, when the bubble burst, doing everything in his power to organize government rescue operations."
My scenario
September 22, 2008 - 12:12 ET by Indiana JoeDems sit on their hands (as usual), the market self-corrects (as it should, if left alone), and the Dems take credit for preventing Bush's "hysterical" over-reaction.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Bill passes this week
September 22, 2008 - 12:13 ET by Lame CherrySome advice to the GOP, the Democratic provisions are reasonable as awarding CEO's is a no win situation.
Trump the Democrats on the bill and let them know that if they do not the GOP tact will be slum lord Pelosi and Obama as the charges for holding this up as both were profitting off of the poor.
Do the deal and move on to the real matters, drill baby drill John Thune.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Market Ticker's Karl Denninger summed this up
September 22, 2008 - 12:22 ET by Vonu"This is the de facto nationalization of the entire banking,
insurance and related financial system..That's right - every
bank and other financial institution in the United States has
just become a de-facto organ of the United States Government, if
Hank Paulson thinks they should be, and he may order them to do
virtually anything that he claims is in furtherance of this
act.....The bill gives Paulson the ability to nationalize
unlimited amount of private debt and force you and your children
to pay for it."
He's Right
September 22, 2008 - 17:34 ET by Copperhead RidgeWhat really makes me angry is that my family and I are debt free, except for a mortgage. We have about 75% to 78% equity on the property we own.
We live our lives debt free. We make sacrifices to stay out of debt.
It really ticks me off that my hard earned income is going to bail out these losers who have not kept up with their loan payments. Oh, I'm sure some bleeding heart will dig up anecdotal evidence of some hard working coal miner struggling with medical bills, etc., and is losing his house.
A large part of the defaults are speculators and a larger part are people who had no business owning property in the first place.
Most of the loan defaults I've witnessed (I've seen several) are actually middle class people. But, they've foregone responsibility and bought boats and Sea Doos and motorcycles and every googaw and whimmydiddle they could charge on a credit card or take out a home equity line of credit to buy.
I've seen neighbors suffer this fate. Basically, those folks want the government to subsidize their profligate lifestyle. Some are upside down on home loans (with adjustable rates) and upside down on a pair of car loans.
Call me cold hearted, but I have little compassion for them.
I guess part of me thought I would laugh longest when their bubble burst (I'm not a class envy guy, either), but I suppose they will laugh longest when they are let out of their obligation to pay for their homes.
I've never been more angry at the United States government than I am now. I've never been less of a Republican than I am at this moment.
I've lived my life within my means. My reward is to be shaken down by the oppressive hand of government to pay the bill for the profligates.
So, they may not raise my taxes (just wait until the Obamunists take power), but they will devalue my currency.
I voted none of the above
September 22, 2008 - 12:28 ET by bigtimerI voted none of the above because we just have no way of knowing...I feel it will be a mixture...I do not think it will pass, the dems always add in what they want, the msm will blame the whoever they can with an 'R' after their name, and life will go on.
I am still furious from long ago about the looking the other way when it came to Fannie/Freddie ect. I posted about it quite a bit way back when here and there..it was huge then, it still is...the msm ignored it because of the dems involved and the contributions the company made let alone the protection of Raines/Gorelick/Johnson and others...all Clinton appts.
Enron had nothing compared to Freddie/Fannie.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
The plan will pass with
September 22, 2008 - 12:33 ET by ckc1227The plan will pass with Democrat provisions added, then a few years down the road,we'll be right back here again because nothing has been done to address the actual problem.
ckc... If something
September 22, 2008 - 12:45 ET by bigtimerckc...
If something passes with too much leftist BS included I think the President will veto it.
Then again....it is getting to the end of his Presidency.
For me, this all makes me sick...socialism at it's best in my view.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
The Problem
September 22, 2008 - 14:04 ET by JDWHow can Bush walk away from this to end his administration?
JDW
DAILY WAVE
What will they do if he
September 22, 2008 - 16:10 ET by ckc1227What will they do if he does, talk bad about him? :)
Always Will
September 22, 2008 - 21:33 ET by JDWI was not attempting to be declamatory.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
"If something passes with
September 22, 2008 - 16:08 ET by ckc1227"If something passes with too much leftist BS included I think the President will veto it."
Maybe, BT. We can hope. Something will pass eventually though, and it will likely do nothing to address the cause. Until those issues are addressed, there will be another bailout within the next 10-20 years for the same reason
That's prophetic, you are
September 22, 2008 - 12:51 ET by dscottThat's prophetic, you are right on the money. Just wait until the other shoe drops... Social Security and Medicare http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html
KEY DATES FOR THE TRUST FUNDS
OASI
DI
OASDI
HI
First year outgo exceeds income excluding interest
2018
2005
2017
2008
First year outgo exceeds income including interest
2028
2012
2027
2010
Year trust funds are exhausted
2042
2025
2041
2019
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
I agree that the bill will
September 22, 2008 - 13:08 ET by Davester65I agree that the bill will pass, probably with a few provisions. If the Dem's block anything from passing they'd be taking a huge chance. If the markets collapse, they might try to blame Bush and the MSM my try to go along with that. But, it'll be a hard sell for them if the Prez' offered a plan (even a bad one) and the Dems refused to do anything at all. The press is certainly leftist, but they are also two faced and opportunistic. If public sentiment turns on the Dems the press might just go along for the ride and start fanning the flames.
I voted none of the above because
September 22, 2008 - 12:43 ET by pagg30I voted none of the above because there was no all of the above.
Step 1: The bill will fail either through lack of action or excesive pork. Either way, the bill fails.
Step 2: Pelosi gets to go on vacation again! Really reaching across isles isn't she?
Step 3: A short term dip in the market fuels the fire for everyone that wants to blame President Bush for not personally approving every mortgage application.
Step 4: Cooler heads prevail on Wall st and the market stabilizes.
Step 5: MSM credits Pelosi for being brave and or smart enough to do nothing (again)!
pagg... I agree with your
September 22, 2008 - 12:50 ET by bigtimerpagg...
I agree with your summation for the most part...the House will get whatever they want passed because they can...it's the Senate that will hold it up if it isn't a clean bill in my opinion.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Bush will sign
September 22, 2008 - 13:28 ET by Gat New YorkBush will sign whatever is sent to him no matter what the Dems stick in there.
That's the problem!
September 22, 2008 - 16:43 ET by Sergeant ROCKToo bad Bush isn't as tough on the democRATS as he is on terrorists.
PALIN/McCain 2008
The problem is, the
September 22, 2008 - 13:16 ET by ApacheThe problem is, the situation we are looking at is not affected by the stock market. We are looking at a meltdown that can operate separately from how well the stock market seems to perform. A situation where companies try to borrow money and can't. They can't borrow, then they can't pay and thus trickle down economics is a very bad way. Confidence in the banking system goes away. Stock Market response would be a lagging indicator. Sure the bailouts are bad. But we bought this as our only option a long time ago from the idiots we (Americans) elected to Congress.
BDS'ers best dream !! Mr. Bush will stand trial for stealing !
September 22, 2008 - 13:05 ET by upcountrywaterThis is a TRAP Mr. President, run away from this as fast as you can.
Are we going to be hammered with headlines like this for the next several years? "biggest theft in history" .. cronies disappear with a TRILLION ..
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
Dems Lose Big!
September 22, 2008 - 13:08 ET by CrashPelosi will have to cave if she hopes to hold seats and she'll have to redo the drilling restrictions bill. Pelosi/Reed are so inept; were they to exhibit any sense they'd stop listening to their own party and pay attention to the capitalist side of the aisle ... good luck in getting an EEG blip from those two lame brains.
Pelosi & Reid just might
September 22, 2008 - 14:18 ET by Cape Conservativewin a few seats IF they demanded Senator Dodd & Rep. Frank step down IMMEDIATELY! And IF they started an investigation - say on the level of their grilling of the oil companies - of the present and former Fannie & Freddie executives!!!!
I'd be willing to put down my last $$ in a bet on this one! Neither of them will do ONE THING!
Dodd & Frank
September 22, 2008 - 17:03 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou are correct. I cannot believe that the GOP is not going for the juglar on this one. This issue could close the door on Obama's campaign.
PALIN/McCain 2008
With a 7% approval rate for
September 22, 2008 - 13:16 ET by NBFWith a 7% approval rate for the Bailouts, I'm astounded how far this "reward the irresponsible" nonsense is going.
I wrote my lawmakers. Have you?
NBF... I attempted to get
September 22, 2008 - 13:19 ET by bigtimerNBF...
I attempted to get through earlier with my call to congress with my opinion...will be trying later...I never give up.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
I don't see how the plan is
September 22, 2008 - 14:10 ET by FranksamI don't see how the plan is anything so different from what Hugo Chavez would come up with. I am disgusted that people who f'd things up will be enriched, either with dollars (which would be my preference), or votes. Throw the bums out and let the correction take place. It's going to happen after the looting anyway.
P.S. I'm sorry to say that Dianna DeGette is the person who 'represents' me in Congress. There is little consolation in letting a moron like her know what I think, but I did e-mail her.
I am voting for HOPE
September 22, 2008 - 14:11 ET by avenarPlan defeated, recess begins Friday, markets stabilize, Bush and McCain get credit.
How can you vote any other way?
I Voted It Would Pass With Dem Provisions
September 22, 2008 - 14:12 ET by deerjerkydavePoliticians are going to pretend like they're interested in "fixing" the problem so they will pass just about anything right about now. I don't believe that the competence exists among Democrats nor Republicans to solve this problem.
As usual, there are too many politicians who are too inept to foresee problems until they reach a state of crisis. For example, nothing will happen to Socialist Security until it is a crisis. That's why government should not be as big as it is. It is too big to be managed properly by politicians, many of whom are underqualified for these jobs, and many of whom are more interested in reelection than solving problems that they created.
Always Another Chance
September 22, 2008 - 14:30 ET by JDWThe same government...
While we live through yet more devastations beyond imagination and the leftists slowly create more socialism. What is a crisis?
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Inept, You really think
September 22, 2008 - 14:54 ET by dscottInept, You really think so? They have the same info. at their fingertips as we do. Let me suggest a possible more sinister alternative: that keeping people in a crisis management mode plays much easier to the Dems hands since their agenda is socialism. By creating the crisis that only the "government" can solve, the natural solution is socialism. E.g. AGW, a faux climate crisis to get people to accept higher taxes and more government control of their lives. Mortgage crisis, created by Dem crony controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac thus nationalizing the mortgage industry and undermining the securities industry. The current bailout again a government solution which in effect redistributes wealth by the government owning foreclosed properties which will be parceled out how? To the lowest bidder under favorable terms...guaranteed by the government. Next comes Social Security, stonewalling until 2017 or so the Dems create the next crisis when "something must be done to secure seniors retirement." just like under Reagan when the Dems pulled a fast one with the so called rescue of SS. They didn't rescue SS, they simply jacked up the taxes to cover the shortage for 20 years so they in the meantime could steal the tax money and spend it on vote buying social programs they called "investments". Otherwise, if they had separated SS from the budget while raising the SS tax and then forced "investment" of the excess receipts as every pension fund does, there would be no looming SS financial crisis.
To normal people, a politician not telling the truth and spending your taxes like a drunken sailor is inept, to cynical people who take off the blinders of "expectation of responsibility" and review the facts, we see a disturbing pattern of behavior which points to a well formed plan to make America a Socialist country.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Hear, Hear! "America
September 22, 2008 - 14:57 ET by bigtimerHear, Hear!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
btw- that was my conspiracy
September 22, 2008 - 15:04 ET by dscottbtw- that was my conspiracy theory of the week. Of course our counter move is NOT to charge Democrats with a conspiracy otherwise we would look like loons to the moderates because they just wouldn't believe anyone is so vile as to hurt people just to get what they wanted. Our counter move is to charge Dems with INCOMPETENCE! Only an incompetent person would not forsee the mortgage crisis. That charge is believable by the moderates and independents of the country.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Recommended Reading
September 22, 2008 - 17:06 ET by JDWI posted the article on a blog this morning, well worth one's time. How the libs created the crisis, bled it dry, and will continue to do so with additional taxpayer funding. All roads lead to Fannie/Freddie.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Expect the Worst.....
September 22, 2008 - 14:22 ET by JamesonLewis3rdHope for the Best.....
________________
Hebrews 11:8
Jeremiah 33:3
And do 'you know what' in
September 22, 2008 - 15:00 ET by FranksamOr as my dad said more than once, "And do 'you know what' in one hand and hope in the other, see which fills up faster." He actually was a lot smarter than I thought at the time.
Can anyone give me a hint as
September 22, 2008 - 15:58 ET by marpelCan anyone give me a hint as to where I could find some details of the bailout? Everyone has been so vague as to what the bailout is about. I assume it may be because no one understands it fully yet.
I would like to find a website or something that will give us details of the plan in plain Englis.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Understanding the Bailout
September 22, 2008 - 16:51 ET by PopularTechThe Real Cost of a Full Bailout (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
Can the Rescue Plan Fix the US Economy? (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
The Treasury Secretary Paulson thinks that bailing out failing investment banks and GSE mortgage lenders will prevent the whole the U.S. banking system from effectively collapsing due to the housing bubble. All this will do is cause hyperinflation and it will crash anyway.
Paulson & Bernanke: Want "Emergency Powers"
September 22, 2008 - 17:05 ET by PopularTechPaulson & Bernanke: Financial Dictators (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are
non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be
reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
Have no fear they will give these powers back when the emergency is over.
Emergency Powers
September 22, 2008 - 17:09 ET by Sergeant ROCKYeah, that's what Senator Palpatine said.
PALIN/McCain 2008
They Will Pass exactly as proposed
September 22, 2008 - 16:43 ET by lareeThese are not brave legislatures how close are we to the Presidential Election. They can't afford a mis step, they have their Nominees to worry about, without having to explain complicated damage control to angry voters. No, Not Brave at all. How many times has this congress caved in, and the Democrats are in the majority.
What needs to happen is for
September 22, 2008 - 16:52 ET by liberal_bug_zapperWhat needs to happen is for Fannie and Freddie to be broken up like Ma-Bell.
____________________________________________________
"A society that puts equality...ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom." ~ Milton Friedman
Freddie and Fannie need to be liquidated
September 22, 2008 - 17:07 ET by PopularTech...and their worthwhile mortgages sold to reputable companies. If these organizations did not exist this housing bubble would never have happened.
you're exactly right
September 23, 2008 - 08:14 ET by MrDebaterpoptech. I buy and sell foreclosures and there are always thousands of them in every state in the union. This has gone on since the beginning of the mortgage market. Get rid of Fannie, Freddie, FHA, and HUD. There are entrepreneurs and developers that will always buy the bargains. I can't understand why people keep turning to the gov't, when everyone knows the gov't can't run anything right(except maybe the military). Give the power back to the states. Make the Fed as small as possible. With 50 states competing for people and businesses, everyone will win.
Agreement.
September 23, 2008 - 19:35 ET by SchnikeysI agree.
------------------------------------------------------------
"My morality is your morality."
Telephony
September 22, 2008 - 17:17 ET by JDWI spent 12yrs in the industry, the majority with high end PBX MAN equipment (AA/VM, T3..., 1 mainframe for central loc...). After Bell was split, it took no time to blow open the market with our products.
Bell left St Louis long ago. ATT just wrote saying they are out of the CO business, probably too many cells.
You have a very good example, private industry works.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Bailout Passes - and this
September 22, 2008 - 17:18 ET by Chris NormanBailout Passes - and this time, Glenn Beck's head really does actually explode.
McNotObama '08
None of the above... since
September 22, 2008 - 17:21 ET by soulpileNone of the above... since whatever happens, if it's good, the Democrats will get credit. If it's bad, Bush did it! Those bad Republicans... aaah!
/channeling the media
How Bush can really fix the problem
September 22, 2008 - 18:27 ET by PopularTech1. Drastically reduce Federal Spending
2. Call for drastically lower taxes on things like income
3. Liquidate the failed banks as soon as possible to banks in better standing.
4. Let idiots lose their homes they should have never bought and tell people not to be stupid in the future.
1 & 2
September 22, 2008 - 18:39 ET by Sergeant ROCKCongress controls the 'purse strings'.
But, if you insist on Bush 'fixing' it, then I suppose he could declare Marshal Law and have those in Congress responsible, like Dodd and Frank, taken outside the Capital Building and shot.
PALIN/McCain 2008
I Located His Source
September 22, 2008 - 20:11 ET by JDWHe's quoting from here
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Bush is part of the problem
September 23, 2008 - 06:27 ET by PopularTechBush submits the budget but I clearly said he should call for reducing income taxes. I never said I insist on Bush fixing the problem but isn't that what he is trying to do? If you think this has nothing to do with Bush then you need to read this:
Bush's 'American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003' (Lew Rockwell)
Bovard: Bush to End Scarcity (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
"Bush is determined to end the bias against people who want to buy a home but don't have any money."
- A White House Fact Sheet issued June 17, 2002, declared that Bush's agenda "will help tear down the barriers to homeownership that stand in the way of our nation's African-American, Hispanic and other minority families. ... The single biggest barrier to homeownership is accumulating funds for a down payment."
- Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher said in January 2004 that "the White House doesn't think those who can afford the monthly payment but have been unable to save for a down payment should be deprived from owning a home," National Mortgage News reported.
- While zero-downpayment mortgages have long been considered profoundly unsafe (especially for borrowers with dubious credit history), Weicher confidently asserted: "We do not anticipate any costs to taxpayers."
Can the Federal Government Profit from the Bailout
September 23, 2008 - 06:44 ET by whodatAny possibility?
The Government thinks it can
September 23, 2008 - 07:19 ET by PopularTechThey think based on imaginary figures that they can repackable and resell bad debt to people who have no money to buy it. These debts need to be liquidated not socialized. Yes some people are going to lose their homes and yes people are going to lose their jobs but that is unavoidable now. Those people made those bad decisions with the help of socialism and 'compassionate' conservatism.
»→ Break it down PopTech
September 23, 2008 - 07:30 ET by Cool ArrowIf the local money could be freed up, that worthless paper (which represents real property), is certainly worth something to somebody.
But that's the disconnect the big banks don't realize yet.
"Don't taze me bro" - Joe Biden
Read my lips, George, no more fargin' bailouts!
September 22, 2008 - 20:17 ET by R D HelmEnough is enough!
Bernanke, Paulson and Cox should be fired immediately, if not sooner. Especially Paulson.
The more I am reading and hearing about this, the more it is looking like Paulson is attempting to use the federal government to force us to bail out his clearly imcompetent Wall Street buddies.
Not with my tax dollars, he isn't.
For God's sake, grow a spine, George!
-Dave.
RD,
September 22, 2008 - 21:10 ET by RESTLESS 1The sad thing is, according to a radio show I was listening to on the way home, is that foreign banks, if regulated by the U.S., could qualify. If a foreign bank is doing business in the U.S., they could get our tax money too. Unbelievable!!!
This damn plan by Paulson is worth $700 BILLION, and it is only about three pages long. My truck loan required more paperwork.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
R1, I am beginning to see Paulson as an incompetent boob.
September 23, 2008 - 22:47 ET by R D HelmAnd am I the only one here bothered by the fact that Paulson once headed Goldman Sachs?
Something smells here.
-Dave
Dave...what you smelled today was....
September 23, 2008 - 22:52 ET by BlondeArrogance.
I am screaming "Hell No!" as I watch this crazy stuff.
Eliminate the capital gains tax for the forseeable future (hint, hint....forever). That will release enough liquidity.
Let these failing bastards fail.....the Guv created the FM's...okay, I'll buy that, fixing those, I mean.
The rest, AIG, et al....TA TA suckas!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
J, this was more than just arrogance on Paulson's part.
September 23, 2008 - 23:09 ET by R D HelmDid you notice during the hearings how he adamantly insisted the $7 gazillian be delivered in full, and right up front?
I heard somebody on the radio today (it may have been Boortz, but I'm not sure) say that Paulson will be departing the Treasury Dept. early next year.
Not only that, but I am hearing that Paulson has a rather chummy relationship with the Chicoms.
I think there is far more going on here then we currently realize.
And none of it is good.
-Dave
RD,
September 23, 2008 - 23:19 ET by RESTLESS 1See below. I agree completely.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Beginning???
September 23, 2008 - 23:17 ET by RESTLESS 1Paulson is trying to ramrod this thing through as quickly as possible to protect his "friends". The dems are only trying to get their kickbacks in before passing this garbage. And NOBODY seems to be trying to stop this.
As I said above, if foreign banks bought these bad loans, then they will be bailed out of them as well. OUR TAX DOLLARS going to FOREIGN BANKS!!!!
I'm so pissed about this, I could spit nails.
BTW, this whole debacle reminds of two little words I have a growing appreciation for: TERM LIMITS. These numbskulls get way too fat and happy fuc$#%g up our country like this.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
R1, I don't mean to come across as a raving paranoid here...
September 23, 2008 - 23:24 ET by R D Helm...but I am beginning to think that we have all been had, and not just by the democrats.
It appears there is a movement afoot to put the crew back in charge of the Titanic after the fact, if you get my drift.
This bailout has to be stopped. Should it go through, and once it is combined with the un-funded mandates that only God himself knows what the total cost will be to us tax-paying saps (and that is exactly what we are) we could be looking at the total financial collapse of the U.S.
And that right soon, too.
-Dave
Dave,
September 23, 2008 - 23:27 ET by RESTLESS 1It's not paranoia if they are really after you. We are getting screwed by both sides here, one for greed, and one out of pure stupidity. No vaseline, and very painful.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Restless & RD
September 23, 2008 - 23:40 ET by MrShyTwo big fear-mongers.... now STOP IT!
(Are we really screwed? What if they don't do the big bailout? It'll just be a more short-term screwage but we'll avoid an all-out depression?)
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
MrShy,
September 23, 2008 - 23:53 ET by R D HelmHere is how I see it.
This "bailout" will not prevent a depression, but it just might cause one.
-Dave
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them-Rick Roberts
Shy, Feds better save MY MONEY (my taxes) for bailing out FDIC.
September 24, 2008 - 00:17 ET by upcountrywaterI'm a saver if FDIC goes away.. I'm SCREWED..
How many TRILLIONS are needed to save a few of us that have some savings?
Throwing money at these LOSER companies, will only slow down the fall by a few days.. or a few weeks...
The cash bleed out is in the trillions...thanks be to you the "ZERO down" freeks ..you and the feds, forcing and encouraging this FOOLISH act...
keep the FDIC, save THE FDIC, long live the FCIC
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
You fogot the "more of the
September 22, 2008 - 20:45 ET by RESTLESS 1You fogot the "more of the same" option. I wonder if maybe we shouldn't get together, go to Wash. and put our hands out. After all, I'm sure we could all use the newest and bestest computers available, maybe even a Mac and PC for each of us. This is important work being done here. We should demand at least a trillion, as that seems to be the going rate. Whatever is left over after the computers and hard drives are paid for, can just be distributed equally amongst us NB regulars via govt. check. :/
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
The usual will happen: It
September 22, 2008 - 20:55 ET by SchnikeysThe usual will happen: It passes, but before it passes the Democrats and perhaps the congressional RINOs will add a lot of crap to it, Bush will love the result and sign it into law.
------------------------------------------------------------
"My morality is your morality."
This bailout will be
September 23, 2008 - 08:04 ET by MrDebaterthe last. If the gov't does this it's the end. I say let the markets take the hit, and unfortunately the people as well. We will not be alone in the misery. The rest of the world is tied to us so closely that everyone will suffer. China will lose it's largest customer as American companies reset and start manufacturing at home again. If the gov't bails out the financials, they are just going to create another artificial bubble that will be even more devastating down the road. Let the market correct. We will suffer, but not as long as we would if they bail 'em out and kick this disaster down the road.