By the end of this thread Wilson will be the front runner for 2012. The only thing better than a conservative around here is an obnoxious conservative with no self discipline.
And you are primarily an emotionally arrested adolescent. But you just hide in the herd. That way you're a conservative and no one will notice you are emotionally arrested and giggle at hermaphroditism and "Uranus" jokes.
you must have a very short memory span,or a very selective one, because the democrits did the same to bush. i guess your mother never taught you the saying 'what's good for the goose ,is good for the gander'.
Democrats do all sorts of obnoxious things. That doesn't mean I'm going to condone the actions of thugs and anti-social racists/Dixiecrats posing as conservatives. Let a liberal weed out the thugs posing as liberals.
The dems in congress have boo'ed Bush, they even started a chorus of "no, no, no" during a state of the union address once... it's all out there to discover if one opens ones mind to facts.
The only issue i have with calling a liar a liar is that it wasn't ALL of the republicans in congress shouting it out, not just Wilson.
Rep. Wilson was only telling the truth. What was wrong about that? And as far as the setting, it was not a State of the Union and Obama was going full bore lying and blaming Republicans for everything.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
I started to vote yes, because of the setting, but then I thought the same way that you did....it was not a State of the Union Speech (during which, BTW, the Democrats had no problem BOOING Presdent Bush....link to video not working; the server probably crashed!)
Besides, the "setting" was chosen by the President, clearly for the purpose of giving his speech the aura of "from the mountaintop" so to speak, and to impart an air of authority, pre-empting disagreement. In this setting, he assumed he would be unassailable.
So his fans seem troubled that someone DARED to speak out and challenge him. This while he was standing there and calling his opponents liars.
I agree with you!! But he wanted it to be more of a "proclamation from the mountaintop" which is why he chose this setting! He assumed they would be intimidated by it (that's the word I was looking for in my comment above!!) and sit quietly for his lecture, only applauding when necessary.
My "NO" vote meant that Wilson was not out of line!
You may have changed my mind, MB. I voted that it was disrespectful; that was my first reaction.
But you're right. Obama basically held the country hostage. He put himself in a position where he couldn't be opposed. That's something we tolerate in presidents, but only if they act presidential, i.e., they don't take advantage of the opposition-free forum to take gratuitous potshots. He took advantage of our respect for the office.
I still don't like it. But you have a very good point.
Obama referred to claims regarding panels of bureaucrats having the power to kill off senior citizens--and said such charges were cynical, irresponsible and lies.
He assumed he would be unassailable? Really? He's being assailed relentlessly 24/7; in additon, the GOP is afforded--and availed itself of--their rebuttal opportunity immediately following the President's address. What Obama should not assume is that a member of the opposition party would shout out "you lie" in the middle of his speech before Congress. It was an inappropriate forum plain and simple. If the U.S. House and Senate would prefer to change rules of behavior to be more in line with that permissable in the British parliament, they are free to do so. But unless and until they do, Wilson's conduct was clearly out of line. "Yes" is the only logical vote.
MB's point is correct. Obama chose that forum because he didn't want to face opposition when he made accusations of lies of his own. He wanted to call other people liars, but be shielded himself. In that, it was an act of political cowardice. Obama exploited the forum to take potshots. As soon as he called his opponents liars, and claimed they were trying to score cheap political points, he lost the presumption of respect. If you don't show respect to others, you get none yourself.
By analogy ... suppose the local politician goes into a cathedral, and during mass he stands up and calls his opponent a jerkoff. The crowd boos. The politician doesn't have the right to say to the crowd, "stop that, we're in church."
There's a difference between politics and statecraft. Assembling both houses of Congress to make a speech is reserved for statecraft, usually for matters of war. But Obama used it as grandstand play to promote a domestic policy on which he's losing, both on the vote and with the public. And to make it worse, he cast the political opposition as liars and cheats. At that point, he lost the right to be shown deference, since he so egregiously disrespected others.
Obama referred to "prominent politicians" concerns about the healthcare bill in this manner, "It's a lie, plain and simple".
Obama derisively dismissed the voice of the American people by telling them to "Stop talking".
Obama promises that the White House will "punch back twice as hard" if Republicans challenge HR 3200.
Now:
Sarah Palin's remarks on the healthcare bill are all backed up with references. She goes to the heart of the matter with precision and says nothing vague or ambiguous.
If anything she has written there is a lie, please refute it. Thanks.
Isn't it Obama who says we should be looking more to how things are done in Europe? I thought Wilson's gesture was entirely within the scope of European parlaimentary conduct.
Now, if Obama wants American parlaimentary precepts to prevail, then I think he owes us the courtesy to stop lying to our faces.
Prove it. Let's see something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
I submit this to you:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully
present in the United States.
I realize this is just one part of a gigantic bill. Please point out the clause that backs up your position.
This is no change in the system we have now. Illegals will not be denied service even if they are denied coverage. Just ask the border state medical services who treat illegals without receiving payment and are either broke or nearly so.
The speech was laced with "untruths." Read the AP "fact-checker" piece.
There is no provision for requiring proof of citizenship. So, hocus-pocus, how can a doctor tell if one is an illegal? And you can bet there will be cries (once again) of "racism" if it's suggested anyone checks. Just like the shrieks of outrage when it is suggested that folks provide picture ID to vote.
And you're trying to twist this thread... as usual. The "quibble" is keep the government out of my doctor's office!!!
You know, kinda like "keep the government out of my womb?"
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
I didn't twist the thread topic. You are trying to make it more general than it is. The topic at hand pertains to Wilson's childish heckling in response to a statement about illegal immigrants' access to healthcare. And gee f---in' whiz, that's exactly what I posted about. So why don't you stop twisting threads with your bumper sticker platitudes?
You tried to redefine what the "quibble" was. This thread IS about Wilson's "decorum" or lack thereof. And it was perfectly appropriate of Wilson when Obama got up there and accused everyone opposing him of lying or "twisting the truth" or whatever euphemism you prefer. Obama "called them out." Wilson answered the call.
Did you have a problem with "decorum" when Democrats booed Bush during a State of the Union address? Obama called for this forum, it was his choice to appear, and he had no right to abuse people and hide behind some one-sided concept of "decorum" while trash-talking the opposition.
Bring real debate back to our legislature. Get rid of the "back room deals" and give us transparency. When you get up to address OUR Congress, you best be ready to back up what you say. That's how it was when this country was founded. And how it should be again.
"Bumper-sticker platitudes?" The only "bumper-sticker" slogan I used was one your own side reallytook to heart a few years ago. And I used it as a parody. But, if you consider discussing health-care on a thread that's about an aspect of the President's health-care speech as "derailing," well, I guess I'm guilty of that. Well, as guilty as you, CTTOI. So I apologize for that, it was a cheap shot.
But my point about the illegals being covered still stands. No provision for checking citizenship. So how can the famous Section 246 (I think it is) actually be enforced?
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Oh, please. Let's go back yet another decade and another administration and examine the disrespectful behavior of Republicans during Clinton's SOTU addresses. The fact remains Wilson's "liar" shoutout was unprecedented in recent American history--despite the unsupported and unsupportable "they did it to Bush" whines to the contrary.
Wilson explicitly engaged in censurable behavior on the floor of Congress. Why do you think he apologized? Because he's an unprincipled coward? Because Republicans are just inherently nicer people than Democrats.? No, and no. He did so because he realized he was wrong. It was not the appropriate setting. End of story.
Just like the rhetoric during the campaigns there seems to be an escalation of less than appropriate behavior by our politicians. It is disingenuous to say the ‘you lie’ is anywhere near what President Bush received but it does stand out. You see when the Democrats heckled Bush there was so many people mumbling and talking that you didn’t know what any one person said. I still remember the look on Ms. Clinton’s face when the Democrats interrupted Bush’s speech to applaud their own attempt to kill reform to Social Security. I don’t agree with it either way because as I was often told in the Navy, ‘even if you don’t respect the man, you have to respect his rank’. I’m not military any more but I don’t want anyone trying to embarrass the office of the President even if I disagree with nearly everything President Obama has done. If the person in the office of the President of the US embarrasses the office that is when the people have to judge for themselves what is appropriate and I honestly think this is very close. Close because this was not an event suitable for a Joint Sessions, the event was used to deliver a campaign speech without the venue of debate and many, many people were insulted or dismissed by the man elected to be their President.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage.
According to you fact check source, and any reality check, Joe Wilson is lying. The fact is, he's a dirty bald faced liar.
More from your AP piece:
"Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due."
The current law, signed into law by your Republican president, requires that all human beings be treated in emergency rooms. If that's Socialism, call me comrade.
The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.
"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."
[...]
"Some have expressed concerns that since H.R. 3200 does not contain a mechanism to verify immigration status, the prohibitions on certain noncitizens (e.g, nonimmigrants and unauthorized aliens) receiving the credits may not be enforced. However, others note that under §142(a)(3) of the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer the "individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits."
[...]
"There could be instances where some family members would meet the definition of an eligible individual for purposes of the credit, while other family members would not. For example, in a family consisting of a U.S. citizen married to an unauthorized alien and a U.S. citizen child, the U.S. citizen spouse and child could meet the criteria for being a credit-eligible individual, while the unauthorized alien spouse would not meet the criteria. H.R. 3200 does not expressly address how such a situation would be treated. Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families."
Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the prohibition in the House bill doesn't go far enough. For him and other Republicans, the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out. There's no provision for how the prohibition would be enforced, or any requirement for people to prove they are citizens or legal residents before getting health care benefits. In fact, Democrats on the Energy and Commerce and Ways and Means committees defeated Republican-offered amendments that would have required people to verify their legal status before getting care, with some Democrats saying such requirements would be unnecessarily burdensome for people legally entitled to care. Wilson cited the defeat of those two amendments Thursday when he discussed his outburst with reporters.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
1.) "Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due." So why will illegals be more likely to be able to obtain government insurance when they currently can't partake in other Federal programs like Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc
2.) "Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."
So, yes, illegals can buy health insurance at full price. Instead of being a burden on the health care system they will be able to pay their own way. They are already able to do just that right now anyway. This is a great benefit to you and me. Don't you agree?
3.) "Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families."
Who cares? So the husband, wife or child of a United states citizen is going to wind up with insurance. Not such a bad thing.
4.) "Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the prohibition in the House bill doesn't go far enough. For him and other Republicans, the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out."
So this kinda boils down to the fear of what might happen. Opponents can trump those fears up to the level of a tempest in a teapot. And they are.
Link to what, well99? I followed the link a commenter provided supposedly proving a point and dissected the dissembling of the blogger.
All I see anyone here providing for evidence are links to speculation and innuendo. Things that "might" happen, yet all the facts indicate or prove the contrary.
Links to bloggers who confirm the irrational rantings of a commenter are not evidence of anything except confirmation of irrational rantings.
I say you have a definate case of lyingoutyouyass.Seek help.You need it.I wouldnt recommend waiting for Obamacare.They will probably put the plug on you.
All you have is fearmongering talking points from charlatans. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a fact to prove their point instead of "they might" do this, or "I think" they'll do that. How about you, well 99!
And don't repeat Palin's lying speculations as proof of anything except fearmongering. In fact, if you consider Palin's big lies as serious critique, go back to grade school.
I listed four points for you katainkent and the best you've got is: "some people call that contingency planning. I call it smart business". Well "I call it", ya got nuthin. You don't know fact from fiction - something your puppeteers rely on. I'll await your rebuttal. I expect you'll cut and paste from The Right Wing Talking Point Handbook.
Illegals. You speak of them as if they are respectable citizens. Has it ever occurred to you that we call 'illegals' illegals because they are criminal invaders? Violators of our laws and sovereignty?
Illegals ought not to be permitted to use ANY public facilities. In fact, they should be expelled without hearing, remorse or debate when detected, not entitled to purchase public health insurance at any price. Moreover, should they ever return again after being expeled once, without the permission of our government, they should be subjected to deadly force to expel them permanently.
As for what this bill leaves out, what do you suppose the Federal Judiciary is going to do with this? I think they will apply this law to illegals because the law [HR 3200] does not specifically exclude them. The CRS was very clear on this. Illegals WILL be able to access these benefits. Moreover, there is no enforcement provision built into this law. i.e., there is no verification nor is there any penalty prescribed for applying for benefits fraudulently.
What you are engaged in is at best wishful thinking and at worse, deceit.
There's a new law requiring businesses with Federal Contracts prove that their employees are legal residents of the US.
The US Chamber of Commerce apposes that law. Do you wonder why?
How did we wind up with 22 million illegal aliens in the first place if it weren't for the complicity of your favorite political party? Remember that Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006.
And, as for your redneck rantings about what we should do to illegals but failed to do while Republiacans controlled Congress and the Presidency; our government can't bring one terrorist to justice (Osama Bin Laden), what can they do about 22 million illegals?
And lastly, "I think they will apply this law to illegals" you say, nl207. Well, I think monkeys may fly out of your butt. Both of us think, and both of our thinks have the same validity.
Makes one wonder why you libs are so much in favor of keeping them here? Seems that since they undercut your wages and force you to pay for their burden on the system (education, health care, ect) you would want them gone?
Good point general company. Seems like it's not a black and white issue after all, though many pretend it is.
After controlling the Congress since 1994, and Presidency since 2001, and all the while doing absolutely nothing about the problem, Republican politicians made illegals the wedge issue for the 2006 election. And their rabid minions ate it up.
But you have to wonder what promises Republicans actually kept after that election? If you're honest, none at all - we still have 22 million illegals.
By the same token, as you point out, if the Democrats were true to their constituents, they would be railing against the loss of jobs to the illegals.
If it's in the best interest of both Republican and Democrats to solve the illegals problem, why is neither party actually doing anything about it.
Hmmmmm. Who could be benefitting from allowing all these illegals in this country if it's not you and me?
But as far as healthcare goes, Republicans are again cynically making illegals a wedge issue. But what's worse, if that's really possible, there's no truth to the claim that the plan would give free healhtcare to illegals.
You're right. Illegals benefit both parties. As soon as they enter, you have republicans giving them jobs on the cheap, and democrats registering them to vote.
The fact is that healthcare is provided freely to illegals now. That HR3200 continues that trend is indeed fact. Like or not, that's how it is.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
No restless, illegals benefit the few. Big business is the greatest benefactor and that easily explains why we have 22 million illegals.
Big business in turn buys off your favorite politician. When Republicans were in power, they bought the Republicans. Now that Dems are in power their buying more Democrats. Big business always gets what it pays for.
"The fact is that healthcare is provided freely to illegals now." you say. I guess if you consider that a hospital is required by law (a law signed by your Republican President) to treat any bleeding patient that shows up at their door, you are correct. But what do you suggest is the solution to this problem? Would that be "the final solution"?
And the fact that illegals will be able to continue to buy, at full price with no subsidies from the government, commercially available health insurance under the new plan; is that somehow a bad thing? Is this what has you all riled up? Is this what the "LIAR" accusation is all about? You don't want illegals to pay their own way? Okay then, what is your solution?
And, I'm not claiming that the illegals problem is just caused by Republican sloth, but it is the Republicans supreme hypocrisy to pretend that they had taken a single step during their reign in power, a power that was absolute since they controlled both the Congress and Presidency, to limit the influx of illegals into this country. lol
I can't let this comment go "and democrats registering them to vote." There has not been a single instance of voter fraud in this country that would corraborate that claim. We had eight years of Republican Attorneys General and they failed to prove such. If the fraud had been there, they would have found it. The Democrats have plenty of real faults you could exploit, this one is just a silly conspiracy theory.
You also say "Send them back". Who, pray tell, is going to round up 22 million illegals and send them back? As much as they bluster otherwise for their minions, not your favorite Republican politician, and certainly not the Democrats. Who then? LOL
I never liked Bush's, or McCains's stance on border security, or amnesty. I don't like the 0's either. What's your point? It damn sure wasn't democrats that stopped McCain-Kennedy, now is it? So how are we hypocritical again?
Besides, we don't have to round up 22 million illegals. We need to cut them off from public housing, free medical care, free education, and prosecute those that employ them fully, even toughening the punishments if need be, and they will go back on their own.
Oh, and they are not registered to vote? These links say otherwise. Now, who do you suppose registered them? The republicans that never had their votes anyway?
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
That the best you got, restless!?! You link to a 2007 "Exclusive" from a two bit right wing AM radio station in Bexar Texas. They think as many as 41 illegals voted. 41 illegals voted out of half a million eligible voters in the county! Are you kiddin me???
And did you notice that the sub heading to the article is "Officials are confident new procedures will purge them from the rolls". So, in plain English, it's a very tiny problem that is easily taken care of.
Then you link to a right wing blogger, reporting from his mother's basement, who refers back to the same Bexar County story and then speculates about how bad it must be in other parts of the country. ROFLMAO
The point is you said it wasn't proven. It is. You lie just like your obamessiah. That is 41 in ONE county. It doesn't take a genius to extrapolat that out across the country. I does, however, take a myopic idiot of epic proportions to consider this a "tiny" problem.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
D.B.C.: There has not been a single instance of voter fraud in this country that would corraborate that claim. We had eight years of Republican Attorneys General and they failed to prove such.
It is called moving the goalposts. He wants proof on a single instance. You provide proof of 41 instances. Time to move the goalposts. Suddenly it has to be a sizable majority -
That the best you got, restless!?! ... 41 illegals voted out of half a million eligible voters in the county! Are you kiddin me???
JWF this is the second time I've scolded you about your needing to go back to that 7th Grade Reading Compreshension class. Once again we see Johnny can't read.
Restless claims that Democrats are registering illegals to vote and I called him on his nonsensical claims:
"Now, who do you suppose registered them? The republicans that never had their votes anyway? "
And he makes the statement that it's "democrats registering them to vote."
He did not, and can not, corraborate that claim he made. Instead he links to a story about 41 illegals, out of a half million voters, having voted illegally in Bexar county Texas. No mention of Dems having registered them. ROFLMAO at JWF and restless.
The best you got JWF is calling names, you'd have been better of with that tactic.
Restless makes a false claim "The republicans that never had their votes anyway?"
Repubs had significant Hispanic support as of 2006.
In 2006, the gap between Hispanic leaning Republican versus Democrats was only 23%. That wasn't much. Since then though, that gap has widened further as Republicans lost support not just among Hispanics, but across most demographics as well.
More than likely, the Republicans are losing Hispanic support because of the far right vitriol that dominates the illegal immigration debate. Keep it up!
You said there were no registered illegals. I linked to credible sites proving that there are. You said nothing of the links, just made the laughable statement that hispanics were backing rebublicans, (a 23% gap, is that all? No wonder you think all those repubs were registering them), then claim to have won the argument. I have dismantled you, and proven you a racist in 2-3 posts. Not even a challenge.
And to further humiliate you, my good friend CL3X might just link to this at kos or du for all your buddies to see just how easily you were thrashed.
C-ya 00granddragon
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
You do know that illegals come from all countries and not just from coming across our borders.There is Irish,Euros,Chinese,people from all corners of the world.See you need to look inward to see who the real racist is.Most on the left do because they believe others think like them.That is why they always play the race card.You might take time to disassociate yourself from the Dem party.The party of the KKK.Get some help.Racism is a disease.Good luck with your treatment...ohm..ohm
I guess you're tired of being called a racist and understand what a vile claim that is.
81% of illegals are from Mexico or Latin America. Acknowledgement of that fact is not racism. But facts don't matter to you, you just want to cry "racist"!!!
Actually you assumed all illegal’s were Hispanics. Also you assume that Hispanics will vote against those opposed to illegal immigration. It cant be they have different views on political policies of candidates. No it must be about illegal immigration. As member of the party of the KKK you need to get help. Maybe you could give Sen. Byrd a call. Talk over old times.
Since your none too bright, your only response when made to look foolish is to yell "racist". YOu figure it works for JWF and restless, etc why not you? Touche!
No I am just trying to help you.Your racist attitudes really need to change.It isnt good for you.It will eat away at you.Please seek help because you really need it.I am sure if you cant afford it there is a free program for you.Good luck on your treatment.Email us to let us know how you are progressing.You know you might be able to get a group rate.That way you can bring all your leftist buddies.
But as far as healthcare goes, Republicans are again cynically making illegals a wedge issue.
This is how it works, we tell them (congress, POTUS) what we dont like about it then they (congress, POTUS) are supposed to go back and try to solve to problem with it.These jokers dont seem to care? Why do you think they will give 2 turds about anything you want? You would enable them to further control us, until not even you and you liberal buds will be able to stop it. BTW this is one of many WEDGE issues.
Also blaming Repubs for illegals is pretty lame, as if they are the only ones hiring them. Who has been hiring all of the labor in Cali?
I see that YOUR favorite political party wants to prevent illegals from enetering and run the ones here right out of Dodge, yes? Why is that? So they can have them vote illegally as is current widespread practice in several states with large illegal populations and no proof of citizenship requirements for registration? California for one? Criminals one and all.
I don't care why the illegals are here. They weren't invited. They entered in defiance of US Sovereignty. I and a majority of the citizenry want them out. If they refuse to go peaceably there is a remedy for that. The failure of Republicans to accomplish that might just be one of the reasons they were not returned to office.
You don't think at all, you emote. Emotion has no validity in logic.
Obama should no longer be known as POTUS, after last night I will be calling him LOTUS, Liar Of The United States. He would do well selling snake-oil and Isuzu's.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
of using President and his name in the same sentence... I have been looking for a way of referring to him without being disparaging to the position but without giving him the status the position gives to whomever holds the White House. Thank you!
I like LOTUS as well, will be used quite enthusiastically I'm sure.
Also, I refuse to call him Obama, I prefer to call him Soetoro since that was one of his aliases when he was overseas. Heck, his wife calls him Barry. (Barry, Bah-Rock, doesn't fit phonetically)
I am glad to see you can be counted on to have two standards.Obama opened himself up to it with
"The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible."It is a lie, plain and simple."
So Wilson did the same thing.Glad to see it.If Obama wants to go there he opens himself up to get it right back.
But if the standard is the full House Bill, HR3200, then it appears that Obama was incorrect. There is nothing in HR3200 that excludes illegal aliens from the various coverage provisions (with a few limited exceptions). The Congressional Research Service agrees with this assessment (full report embedded below). For example, with regard to health care exchanges, the CRS found:
H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.
Since the Obama administration wanted a full House vote passing HR3200 prior to the August recess, Obama was okay with a bill that included illegal aliens.
Was Obama a "liar" meaning that he had knowledge of the falsehood of the statement he made at the time he made it? Hard to say. Maybe Obama was playing word games like Bill Clinton did as to the definition of "is." Or maybe Obama simply was mistaken as was George Bush on WMDs in Iraq.
UPDATE: One of the talking points I have seen in numerous comments posted around the blogosphere is that Obama was correct because Section 246 of the House Bill excludes illegals from receiving Individual Affordability Credits. That is true, and one of the few exceptions under the Bill. But it is the exception which proves the rule. As the CRS found, illegal aliens can participate in most of the critical aspects of the government health system including the health care exchanges. Added: It also would be interesting to see how long the exclusion of illegal aliens from getting the credits lasted, since as the CRS notes, illegal aliens are subject to the health care mandate; one can anticipate the argument that if the House Bill requires illegals to have qualified health insurance, some accomodation needs to be made for those who cannot afford it.
JWF posts opinion from William Jacobsen as proof... of whatever.
Mr. Jacobsen is a supreme dissembler. He engages in hair splitting semantics to posit that Obama is a liar. Quite disgusting actually, and quite transparent. When you have to go to such painful lengths to supposedly prove your point, you've already lost the argument.
The maleable sheep reading his screed won't recognize Jacobsen's dissembling, nor do they have the inclination to try to understand it. They simply read his blog for a refreshing cup of "Obama's a liar" flavored Kool Aid.
He is lying when he says illegals won't be covered. the CRS says they will be.
He is lying when he says there are no 'Death Panels'. There WILL be government imposed rationaing and that rationing will on occasion withhold life extending therapies from patients who might otherwise benefit from them.
He is lying when he says this plan will be deficit neutral. It will actually cost far more than he says it will, or, see 'death panels' above.
He is lying when he says you can keep your existing heath care. He knows full well the regulations he intends to impose will drive almost all private plans out of business.
He is lying when he says the 'special interests' oppose this plan. They are all on his team: AARP, AMA, Nurses Association, Hospital Association, Big Pharma, etc.
He is lying when he says 47 million people are without health insurance. At any given time it is less than that, because that number from the Census includes millions of people who lacked insurance for 3 months or less.
That is correct boys and girls. The bigot engaged in nothing but an ad hominem attack in response to my post.
Did you see any refutation of what I posted by the 007Bigot? Nope, it was 2 paragraphs of a personal attack against a lawyer that uses his actual real identity in a blog.
Notice anything else boys and girls? Again, correct. JasonC posted a direct dare to all at NewsBusters. A bunch of us responded with the accurate truth. What do we get?
Binky Braveheart jr with ad hominem attacks.
I told you Binky "I opposed the war" Braveheart was a coward and a scoundrel. He makes a dare, gets called on it and runs. Then sends in a drunk clown to try and clean up the mess.
Speaking of malleable sheep, JWF, I reiterate: "The malleable sheep reading his screed won't recognize Jacobsen's dissembling, nor do they have the inclination to try to understand it. They simply read his blog for a refreshing cup of "Obama's a liar" flavored Kool Aid."
Jacobsen isn't even good at what he does, he's an amateur at propaganda.
You assignment, JWF: Instead of reading meaning into what Jacobsen actually writes, carefully dissect his composition and you'll recognize the dissembling.
After doing so, if you still conclude: "Obama's a liar!!!" it's time to go back to 7th grade English. Or 7th grade logic.
Illegals will be mandated, (still don't know why anyone who doesn't want coverage, and can pay medical bills without it, would be MANDATED to have coverage), to have coverage. That alone puts illegals into the system. I understand that democrats need the votes, but for you, or The 0 the liar to state that illegals won't be covered, given the fact that coverage will be mandated, is...well below 7th grade logic. Every other damn thing illegals can't afford is subsidised by us, so what makes this any different? The 0 the liar said so?
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
I usually try to avoid the trollster...at times he is comical though, depending on how you look at it, for me today the comedic posts from him have put me in 7th Heaven with laughter.
007 is...well how do I put this politely? I can't. This character is stupid and stubborn. A dangerous malady that afflicts the left on a pandemic scale.
BTW, had a lot of rain here this week, my vacation wouldn't you know it. :(
Oh well, we've needed it, badly. I hope all is well up north, as it may be a rough winter for you guys. Keep warm.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Thanks...hope your algoreglobalwarming winter is good for you as well. ;-)
Will be the first winter in so long without a wood stove I don't know how I am going to get used to it after all these years and the uses there are for it that I use...anyway, next year is a different story.
"Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health insurance.24 Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health insurance. Notably, the IRC does not contain special rules for individuals who are in the United States without authorization (i.e., illegal or unauthorized aliens). Instead, the IRC treats these individuals in the same manner as other foreign nationals—an unauthorized individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial presence test is classified as a resident alien; otherwise, the individual is classified as a nonresident alien.25 Thus, it would appear that unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance."
The reference is the CRS report on HR 3200 you've probably heard about. It says that HR3200 will serve illegals and cites the sections of HR3200 that will compel this.
OK, but we're citing an analysis of the bill, not the bill itself, yes? And as I alluded waaaay above in this thread, the issue isn't that Obama is introducing healthcare for illegal immigrants, but that he isn't doing enough to prevent it or eradicate it from the current system. It's not as though undocumented aliens suddenly started receiving subsidized healthcare the day Obama was inaugurated.
Also, I'm confused, but maybe just misreading:
Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g.,
temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less
than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health
insurance . . . unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.
Also, a word to those who are basically saying "You go girl, tell it like it is" with regard to Wilson's horrendously inappropriate outburst: Yes, Obama has used the word "lying" as well. What he has not done is interrupted another person's formal address to do so. It was the manner, not the content, of his accusation that is making the headlines.
I is Binky. I is confused. Despite JWF giving me a clear unequivocal case that illegal aliens are allowed to opt in to the government insurance, aka the government option, aka the public option, aka ObamaCare, I Binky is now all of teh confused.
Of those who are basically saying "You go girl, tell it like it is" want to know why you are now parsing, quibbling, and DISHONESTLY trying to get out of admitting you were wrong.
Prove it. Let's see something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
I realize this is just one part of a gigantic bill. Please point out the clause that backs up your position.
It is proved Binky. Man up! You don't have to admit it to me Binky. But the rest of the community would like to hear it. President Obama was not being truthful. The bill he endorsed in July will provide government insurance to illegals. The bill you quoted.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
PS: keep ignoring me Binky. That has worked so well for you in the past.
First of all, there isn't one bill. There are 4, 3 versions introduced in the House originating in three different Committees The fourth bill is a Senate version managed and sponsored by Max Baucus which has as far as I know, not yet been made public. I expect it will be when the Senate Finance Committee votes on it.
Second, the CRS report contains quotations from and references to HR 3200, which is over 1000 pages in length. The conclusions it draws about the legal effects of HR3200 are based on direct, self-contained references to HR3200 itself. You can access a version of the actual bill here, if you care to wait for it to load.
Rep Wilson was not out of line given that this was essentially a staged Obama event. He was merely point out that the clothes had no Emporor. We are in a street fight for the survival of the Republic and it's about time we quit waiting for a referee and 14 ounce gloves.
If Wilson was out of line, Uhbama was even further out of line with his schoolyard smack about "gonna call you out". Just more evidence that we have a punk in the Oval Office.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
To FeynmanFan's and offer my condolences as well on the less than optimum outcome of your recent medical procedure. You know, many people lead a fairly normal life after a botched lobotomy.
Buck up there, champ!
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
Obama would "create a "death panel" that would deny care to the neediest Americans.
"Who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course," the former vice Republican presidential candidate wrote on her Facebook page, which has nearly 700,000 supporters.
"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.
The issue is no longer viable for the six members of the Senate Finance Committee — three Republicans and three Democrats — working on a bipartisan bill, according to Grassley. In a statement, he criticized the House bill, saying there was a difference between a "simple education campaign, as some advocates want," and paying "physicians to advise patients about end-of-life care."
And by the way, the provision was removed from the house bill by the Dems. I'll bet that pissed off the AMA as doctors won't be reimbursed for the counseling they have to give to their patients anyway - it was the Dems way of getting back at the AMA.
Correction: Provision removed from ONE of the three versions of the House bill.
Since the Senate bill is not public, it is impossible to know whether it is in the Senate version at this time.
In any event, differences between Senate and House versions will be subject to reconciliation. It is impossible to know at this time what will emerge from that process, should HR3200 progress to that point. Therefore, your claims that coercive end of life counseling are out of the bill are entirely premature.
Obama WILL create a 'death panel'. Or more precisely. the US Congress will at his goading.
Indeed, Obama and his ilk have already provided the undedrpinnings for this evil policy in the "Stimulaus Bill", HR 1.
"According to the bill, the secretary of Health and Human Services “shall seek to improve the use of electronic health records and health care quality over time by requiring more stringent measures of meaningful use” by health care providers.
The bill also indicates that a doctor who is not a “meaningful EHR user” in terms of using patients’ health records to provide the most cost-efficient coverage could face penalties. "
'Death Panels' are alteady a reality under Britain's NHS, a scheme widely touted by Obamatrons as exemplary socialized healthcare.
Obama has already admitted there will be government rationing of healthcare: "Obama Suggests Health Care Reform Will Mean Rationing for Some"
Somebody is most certainly lying and it's not Sarah Palin.
The FACTS are that socialised meidicine doesn't work. Never has, never will. Ignore the inadequacies of singel payer healthcare in other countries, the rationing of procedures and life saving drugs if you wish, but don't expect us to take your bs as Gospel. You are as big a liar as your president.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
You have to understand the tactics of the liberals. They are opportunistic. Anything they can use to fuel their fire they will use it. Was Wilson right? Yes and no. There is a time and place for everything. THAT was NOT the right place. Is Obama being disingenuous? YES! And was he lying? Perhaps. But none the less, calling him out like that was not appropiate for that setting.
"If God is dead, somebody is going to have to take his place. It will
be megalomania or erotomania, the drive for power or the drive for
pleasure, the clenched fist or the phallus, Hitler or Hugh Hefner."
— Malcolm Muggeridge
Obama is a lier, and it's about time someone told him so. Obama doesnt seem to have a problem with almost daily calling out those that disagree with him. Obama is a lier, and anyone with and once of integrity should tell him so often and loudly!!
It came across as rude and it should not have been done regardless if your a liberal or conservative
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
Of course he can say he lied, but he did it during a speech that directed at congress and televised nationwide. I believe he did much more damage than good for the Republican party.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
Obama called for this special Congressional address. It was his choice to be there. He used it as an opportunity to trash-talk and "call out" the opposition. Wilson merely answered that call.
I believe he did more good for the Republican party than bad, if we're to judge it by that yardstick. He dared to say the Emperor had no clothes.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
..but I heard the similar cat calls that I heard during President Bush's State of the Union address's as well last night, but I do not remember any member of congress shouting out liar in any of Bushs speeches.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
This President and his party leaders in Congress are not listening to the American people. What do you want us to do? We have written, phoned, faxed, protested, and talked in town halls. Nothing. They have tin ears for what the American taxpayer wants.
I'll give you all a short list of inappropriate things that have happened in the so-called House of Representatives which should be re-named House of Ill Repute since we have nothing but a bunch of whores up there.
1. Playing solitaire while a debate is going on a people are losing their homes and jobs all all the country. Not to mention snoozing and boozing.
2. The so-called members voting themselves pay raises practically every year while voting for more taxes, lower wages for our patriot soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.
3. Ramming things through Congress with not so much as a go to hell to the American people.
4. Insulting our troops and calling them torturers, baby killers and the like.
5. Buying corporate style jets for their own pleasure while telling the rest of us to buy useless and worthless carbon credits from Al Hore.
6. Voting deficit after deficit year after year with no end in sight.
7. Voting a so-called stimulus package that hasn't been unpacked yet.
8. Giving money to the vote thieves at ACORN.
9. Day after day, month after month, year after year calling on the floor of the House and Senate calling Prez Bush a liar, traitor, warmonger and SOB.
10. Ramming through nominations of racists, bigots and idiots like Sotomayor.
11. Attacking private citizens and voters on the floor of both House and Senate.
and....you're welcome to add to this list..it's just only the beginning......
these guys have forgotten who they serve. It's supposed to be our Capitol and our White House but it has turned into a den of thieves and whores. Nothing is inappropriate if it calls a spade a spade when he/she is talking b.s.
Rep. Wilson is an absolute hero in my book and I'm sure his apology is not heartfelft but given only out of a sense of survival. Anyone, who gets up on that podium and says the lies that we've been hearing for many years deserves to be shouted down and if necessary tarred and featured. Enough is enough.....the boiling point has been reached and now the proverbial crap his hitting the fan....run them all out of Washington on a rail!!!!
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"
I gladly confess to anyone reading that I was here originally under the screen-name of dborschjr68, absolutely.
Under that name, I did copious amounts of research and note-taking as
to who was who, who was liberal, who was conservative, etc. I even
posted a forum topic regarding this subject. It wasa very fruitful
venture.
Then, when I felt it was time, I relinquished my dborschjr68 name and returned as pelicanmarsh, as you can easily see.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the Kossack plant under my heel.
to raise our voices high. "We are mad as hell and were not going to take it anymore!" Rep. Wilson sounds like he is one of few who has the guts to say how he feels. I don't think the setting was wrong at all. He is not being ignored now is he? Don't apologize anymore sir! You did America a tremendous favor.
I think Libs and MSM count on us being timid so they can walk all over us and make conservatives look stupid. They use the procedures to their benefit and call us names when it is not appropriate, but if we do it, we are nasty. That is BS. BE forceful and true, this "nasty" truth will get stuff done! Speak the TRUTH or the people will come out and CRY-OUT like the stones buried around in the ground around our Congress!
Dems VOTED to EXCLUDE language that would directly take ACTIONS to forbid illegals on Fed health insurance and Fed abortions. So they have wording in there to Deflect criticism, but it was LEFT with no way to be enforced (since that was specifically excluded). THEY ARE D*m* smart as the media only shows their mirror tricks. The entire story needs to be told directly and strongly put them in their place as being deceptive = liars! M-B
Normally it would be an inappropriate thing to do; but it is much more inappropriate for the President to lie under any circumstances, most especially this one.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
This was not an appropriate occasion for the President to call for a joint session. The President was out of line in his accusations about his ideological opponents. This was not the proper venue to name the lie that is Socialist Medicine in such a manner - without debate because such is the venue when the President speaks to Congress.
I vote 'other' because when looking at a situation that shouldn't have existed and an event that was provoked by inappropriate arguments it is difficult to say that Wilson was wrong but as an American I still have a problem with anyone trying to embarass the office of the President of the US and especially so in the home of the legislative body that represents, usually, the people of this great nation.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
I voted "no" because I'm just sick and tired of all the lies going unanswered. And if our Congress truly represents us, well, someone had to answer Obama's "call out."
But you make a good, reasonable case.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
In the last 6 administrations, only two people have embarrassed the office of the President of the US: William Jefferson Clinton, and Barak Hussein Obama. Carter was a lousy President, but he did not dishonor the Office. Clinton was a lousy President, a serial rapist/sexual predator, a perjurer, he also suborned perjury and obstructed justice. W was at best a mediocre President, who rose to the challenge of a hostile attack against American soil. Unfortunately, he did nothing to retaliate against, or deter further hostile attacks against American soil by the nation to our south. Obamandias is proving to be a disaster as a President on all fronts, is a proven serial liar, is a demonstrated opportunist with no loyalty to the people who helped him get where he is (Rev. Wright, Van Jones, his own grandmother, and the myriad others he has thrown under his over-sized bus).
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
I think the entire Republican delegation should have stood up with him and shouted this lying piece of crap, Obama, down, just like the leftist thugs that dominate college campuses across America do when Conservative speakers try to speak. They would have struck a blow for Liberty. Instead, they chose careful orthodoxy.
I think the mood of the mainstream public has reached critical juncture. The Independents have deserted Obama. The Conservatives loathe and detest the man. All he has left are his koolaid drinkers, and when the tax increases already on the books hit next year, I think many of them will melt away. In particular, those who believed his lie that only those earning $250,000 per year or more would be taxed.
The MSM has no idea how prophetic this new slogan they've coined will be: "the shout heard 'round the world". Reflect for a moment what events that paraphrase refers to.
Speakling of those events, it would do you good to travel to Lexington Green and contemplate what began there. While you are there, visit the Old North Bridge at Concord and walk back down route 2A back to Lexington. http://www.britishbattles.com/concord-lexington.htm
Talk about the setting? So what? When did George Bush hold a "joint session" TV show to promote a domestic policy agenda?
He is NOT the "chief legislative officer" he is the "chief executive officer." Mr. Hussein was illegitimately using the power of his office to promote a partisan agenda item.
He overstepped his bounds, so screw the setting. He is a liar, he is being handled by liars and he is being promoted by the liars in the media. Wilson is RIGHT ON!
NPR had some "real people" (what the pres calls "ordinary people") on--and they said he cleared everything up--no death panels, no increased costs, we're good to go. Eyeroll.
and I know that "older persuasion" isn't the same as "uninformed" or "disinterested."
Chai
“When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson
After being involved in a spirited debate about this last night, here at NB, I considered rethinking my position. After all, this was the Floor of the House. Healthcare does need some reform. He did win. Maybe we should give the man a chance to sell his plan. It's not like he's had very long to tell us about the details of the plan. Or get in front of the American people to discuss the plan. And it's not like he's been spreading false information about what he intends to do, or why he intends to do it. And finally, he hasn't gotten a great deal of favorable coverage on this- so- attacking him that way may have been out of line.
I think I will go to Rep. Wilson's website and leave him an "Atta Boy" message. We all should to show him he had nothing to apologize for. (Those that voted NO of course.) : )
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
I was saddened to hear that Mr. Wilson apologized for his act of defiance, an act that was once uniquely American. Let no one doubt that his outburst is only the beginning. We Americans who still believe in our Constitution are fed up with the Fed. The federal government has grown far beyond the limitations imposed by our Constitution and now this current crop of politicians (for that is all they are) in Congress and the White House, who understand not our foundations and our most sacred institutions, are trying to undo America and hammer home the final nails in her coffin. Would there were more Wilsons in Congress who would defy the destroyers and not apologize.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
I have emailed my congressman. I have called my congressman. I have faxed my congressman. I have gone to tea parties. I have gone to town halls.
So far I have been mocked, belittled, ignored, scoffed at, ridiculed, and told to shut up. And that is just the President and his cronies in Congress. Let's talk about the MSM.
People are angry that we are being lied to and there keeps coming the next step, the next step, the next step.
Even the minority party in Congress is getting torqued. I say right on.
You are being lied to JWF, cause the truth wouldn't get you too angry at all. Next they're going to claim that Obama said "your mother wears army boots", then you'll really throw down the gauntlet! It doesn't take much to raise the rabble.
Crawl back to your liberal bigot cave. You have not risen to the level of being capable of interacting with me.
I was talking to your sister the other day and she confirmed, "yep, he is a bigot, always has been. He thinks the black man is incapable of helping himself and must be given huge doses of help from the government to lift him out of poverty. He thinks the white man is incapable of refraining from letting the black man rise and must be restrained by the government. Oh, and he picks his nose and eats his boogers."
I was talking to your mother and she confirmed as well, you are a bigot. "Yep, he can't openly proclaim his bigotry in the pc environment. So he takes refuge in the last acceptable area of bigotry, liberals hatred for anything outside their ideology. And yea, I have tried to get him to stop eating his boogers but apparently they are very tasty to him."
...and believe me when I tell you, it's about to in a really big way, many of you lefties are going to positively soil your panties when the "rabble" stands up and reasserts the rights granted to us by God, and upheld by the Constitution of the United States.
Damn, are you government-schooled morons ever going to be in for a rude surprise.
:-)
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
"rights granted by God" my ____. You 23 percenters (Bush's approval rating when he left office) just witnessed the worst eight years in recent American history, and instead determined Bush was Grrrreeeaaaaat!
And you think that others see what you see about Obama. ROFLMAO.
Contrast and compare them to 1973 - 1982, for example, during which the inept and overrated Jimmy Carter together with a stumblebum liberal Democratic Congress succeeded in creating unemployment and inflation in the double digits at the same time. Many economists had thought this was impossible prior to Carter's accomplishhment. This stellar presidency also saw the inception of the curse that led directly to our recent economic downturn: the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
This Marxist clown Obama has already spent more money than the government can safely print in his first 8 months in office. He has siezed and nationalized several major corporations. He has subverted long standing rule of law. He has used his office to threaten private citizens and corporations. He has made a mockery out of our foreign policy. He has supported thugs and dictators in the Middle East and in Latin America. Carter is starting to look good!
Frankly it was nice to see a republican finally grow a pair. Maybe next time they can tell him to can it once he hits 15 minutes. I just can't take that much Obama at one time.
While I don't think that was the right place to do it, the Dims did as bad or worse to President Bush. What goes around comes around.
Second, my other thought is that now it is headline news and if the Republicans get off their butts they can use this to club the President over the head with his lies and distortions. The line to take it easy - apoligize for the poor manners in doing it during a Presidential address to both houses but adamantly back up the idea and then spiel off one or two lies and proofs. Keep it simple. No long winded speaches, just one or two hard hitting points each time.
Democrats and their college-boy supporters have been lowering standards of political discourse for many years. Obama even calls on Huffington Post "journalists" at news conferences.
They don't like it when they get it back at them, though.
You had a whole section demonstrating their disapproval by sitting on their hands. All but 1 had the discipline to avoid catcalls. So is he some leader or someone without discipline?
Then he apologized, and I think that means its a discipline problem.
No, this would be my declaration that you have confused obnoxious, anti-social behavior with conservatism. But you're not the first to try to hide in a herd. During the hippy generation, a lot of misfits hid in a herd.
Why don't you just go for broke and call me a racist teabagger. I know you really want to.
As you your point about cutting my political teeth, I don't even listen to Rush that much and he's hardly a role model. In fact I find him too soft on Republican corruption. You know precisely this much >.< about my political upbringing.
That is so far out of line you should be ashamed. There are plenty of people on this sight that merit such an epithet, but candance is not one of them. Not by a looooooooonnnnnnng shot.
Sore because you been outlied by the big man? Or maybe you are mad because as a liar, the big man is your hero. And the lying big hero of yours got outed as a liar, just like you have here time and again.
In general, the office of President of the United States of America should be treated with respect, even when it's not "our guy" in there.
However, what if you truly believe the president is/was lying? Obviously, Wilson did, and I do too. So, I'm torn. When I saw it, I said, "Yeah!", but I don't know if I can, in good conscience, say that it was proper. At the same time, I'm not ready to condemn Wilson either because the president has no right to lie to the people under any circumstance. If Wilson had made the accusation in the mainstream liberal media, it probably would have never even been heard by anyone, so he made sure his accusation would be known.
Of course it was rude, but it's also pretty damn rude to lie to people, in their face, week after week and just expect them to suck it up. Sometimes rudeness is called for. We need more brave citizens to challenge this 'President' in public like this.
Why an address to Congress? Because his ticket to the networks via primetime press conferences has just about run out. He simply needed a new way to deliver a speech and get attention. He's like a two-year old who suddenly discovers a new way to get attention after the old ways stop working.
on talk radio to do what they need to do and good for Joe Wilson for finally speaking "truth to power". The Republican response after the speech was weak as usual, but Wilson is one Republican who spoke for me because his response was was short, sweet and true! Now is the time for other Republicans to take their gloves off! Jim Webster
Just remember how p-ed off you were when Bush was shouted at in a similiar manner. This shrubber would like to consider himself better than those Hufftards and KOStards who condoned it. We are better than that.
Roger, Pres. Bush did not continue to say lie after lie and single out people that disagree with him and call them liars in a speech to Congress. And this was not a State of the Union address. The LOTUS called this joint session. This was his Town Hall. He got what he deserved.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
Sorry to disagree Roger, but with the liberal's near monopoly on what most people in this country hear for news, someone had to stand up and shout the truth from the roof tops. These people are trying to dismantle America. Behold the patience of our Founding Fathers and the oft times they made redress of their grievances to the Crown and just as many times were ignored. Constitution loving Americans have been quietly trying to defend America from the enemy within and little by little she's slipping away. Beware the wrath of the patient man!
You just lower yourself to the standards of the liberals when you do this, even if he is right about the lie. That is what the response is for. that gets attention not shouting at the President during his speech.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
I'm okay with people thinking poorly of me if it helps check this communist's crusade to destroy everything about America that has made it the greatest country ever.
Democrats apologizing. Wilson should have said, "I'm sorry to those who were offended by my outburst, but to the great majority of you who believe Obama was indeed lying, I'm not sorry". Jim Webster
It was completely appropriate, but untimely - Wilson should have said it much earlier in Obamination's remarks. Like three seconds after he started speaking.
If you misrepresent what’s in the plan, we will call you out.
Obama wasn't booed or heckled at the start of his speech. 99% of the time Republicans were polite. Then Obama openly declared that it was time to call out liars. He got a standing ovation for calling Sarah Palin a liar. He threatened to use the bully pulpit against anyone who criticized 3200. He himself used the word "lie" in his speech multiple times.
I do not recall Bush ever getting up before a bunch of Democrats and promising to target them personally for telling lies about Iraq.
Obama set the tone. Obama dropped the L bomb. If that's the kind of post-partisan world he wants, then we should follow his example.
That was GREAT! We should not take this BS, nor from the media. They can say "death panels" are not in the bill... but it provides for their inevitable formation via official guidelines. It may take 10 years but it IS in there! Look at the UK! SO WHO is being truthful? The white wash saying they are not in there, or the people showing faithfully what the eventual result of the bill will bring about? Iwould like the whole picture and truth the MSM choose to IGNORE! Then call Palin a liar! What liars! Which one is showing who really cares about THE PEOPLE and the truth?
The liberal/progressive/socialist rule that says when a liberal/progressive/socialist is speaking you will sit quietly with your hands folded calmly on your lap and accept that your ideas are insignificant.
September 10, 2009 - 11:52 ET by Indiana Joe Obama called for this special Congressional address. It was his choice to be there. He used it as an opportunity to trash-talk and "call out" the opposition. Wilson merely answered that call.
Have any of you ever watched the House Of Parliament in the UK? Good lord these little pansies over here would never survive a minute in that setting. Barack Obama would be in a corner sucking his thumb if he had to encounter.
Cowboy up and a be a man especially Emmanuel.
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
Wilson was wrong to do it there. Why lower yourself to the Dem level (the booing of Bush by Dems during his SOU address). Go outside and do it in front of reporters and answer questions. Put it in the Republician response but not in that setting.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
You have a right to your opinion. And I do agree about the reporter comment afterward. It means nothing if you apologize afterward and don't have the guts to say it into a microphone.
Right now every liberal in this country should write Wilson a thank you letter. He gave them something to talk about instead of admitting that Obama lied in the speech.
I agree with Wilson in principle but not the place and not the time to do it. If the Dems needed something to distract the public from whats going on in Congress, they just got it.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
prolonged discussion and debate about this here at NB last night after the speech, and I espoused the same position that you have here today. I agree with the sentiment behind the words, but not the place.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Not from me. You're right. Emotional outbursts, especially in this setting, are what children (read the Democrats) do. He can be vociferous and adamant about the president's lying afterward. You can have townhall meetings and call him such. You can even do it in the House during debate of the bill -- in fact you should! NOT during an adress to Congress.
Ditto, Candace. His apology makes him a sniffling child now. He shouldn't have apologized. Now the news is his calling out "lie" rather than the fact that Obama DID lie.
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
-- GK Chesterton
It wasn't the smartest thing he could have done. It could rally the Democrats.
I agree the bill has no teeth when it comes to determining whether someone is here illegally and this is terrible. These illegals use our roads, schools, and parks yet pay no taxes.
Wilson was correct that Obama wasn't truthful. I just don't think it helped.
When will the madness end? Hopefully, January 20, 2013.
I just don't know what to say anymore....most of the guys/gals on here are "right-on" with their opinions and support of Smokin Joe Wilson but the rest of you so-called conservatives are clueless. Do you not realize we are in the midst of a war? Not the war on terror (that included) but a war between the America our Founding Fathers hoped, fought and died for and a bunch of vile communists, socialists and tyrant wannabes. In a war, we don't need to play the enemy's game one way or the other....we just need to win the war at all costs. Yes, at all costs. The only true way to win a war is to annilhate the enemy and totally destroy their morale and effectiveness to wage war. To make the war so horrible for them they can't take it any longer and surrender or perish. Sorry, if this sounds extreme but it is truly what I believe. We bombed the hell out of the Germans and completely destroyed two cities in Japan to win a war at all costs, have we already forgotten the lessons we learned back then? We didn't start it but we sure the hell will finish it.
You still don't agree? Then, keep your ideals about playing nice-nice and see how far that get's you in the bread line or when your vote no longer counts due to all the fraudsters stealing it. If someone had the guts to put a bullet into Hitler's head at the beginning of his bullshit then the world would have suffered much less....but hell no..we always wait until it's too late to do anything and play footsie with these idiots and meglomanicas at ultimatley unbearable costs. Decorum to hell....making us feel guilty about our true feelings and the way we express them is just another way of trying to control the outcome...the same as political correctness and a myriad of other ploys our enemies use to get us to shut up, sit down and take it up the rear.
The two-party system no longer works in America, it's through it's finished, it's kaput.
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW" originally coined by ShanghaiRay on NB.
No one's talking about "playing nice-nice" just smart. Will anyone be dissecting Obama's lies in his speech or just about Wilson's outburst? If you make Obama out to be a victim -- and that's how the media that MOST Americans watch will lay it out; it's how he got elected -- then how does that help the conservative cause? You call him a liar on a platform ready with facts -- the same one where Repubs call Dems "their colleagues across the aisle" -- and then list out his lies. And don't apologize for it afterward, which was Wilson's biggest mistake. Either you mean what you say or you don't. His apology further hurt the cause. If you're going to have an outburst, you damn well better back it up with a spine and facts.
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
-- GK Chesterton
did you happen to notice who won the last presidential election? here's a hint, it was the side with all the loud protestors, that used race to its advantage, that never played fair, and on and on.
meanwhile, the Republicans had McCain, who mostly wanted to be thought of as a good sport. The ineffectual boob even claimed after the elections that the press was 'fair'.Maybe the idiot will go on SNL again and tell then they were evenhanded, too.
let the Dems get back what they've been dishing out for decades. Nice boobs finish last. Hehe, well you know what I mean...
Joe Wilson was right in his opinion, but wrong in yelling it out in that venue. I don't want Democrats, Republicans, liberals, or conservatives yelling out individually in such a setting.
The message was very much correct. The timing and location for delivering said message was not appropriate, however, if only because it gives the neo-progs more to bitch and moan about, and to try to represent themselves as being above the fray. Then BHO wasn't man enough to accept the apology on the phone himself, he had to have his right-hand henchman do it.
Having the self discipline to control one's self and not make catcalls during a joint session of Congress used to be normal behavior,not "above the fray." People are so dumbed down by reality TV drama, they beat their chest like orangutans at each and every childish demonstration aimed at the left. Thats not conservatism. That's obnoxious. Wilson showed all of the self discipline as a drunk patron in a strip club.
But he apologized. People here actually defend it and want others to mimic it!
You're referring to this post, I guess. That's not calling Wilson a racist, thats saying in spite of what Democrats do, I'm not going to defend the dregs of the GOP as Democrats defend their wacko left.
I said Wilson's behavior was obnoxious and lacked self-discipline, not racist. But this is just a take off of the pretending you're confused shtick that some other poster used in the Obama school speech thread. There a poster didn't comprehend draconian means strict or authoritarian. When I mentioned using draconian methods on children the poster , oh so confused, suggested it meant advocating child abuse.
Again, being slow of the mark is not conservative. Its just slow of the mark.
In the middle of a thread where you repeatedly singled out Wilson for obnoxious behavior, we're supposed to believe that you brought up a random nonsequitor about some other Republican from south of the Mason-Dixon.
If I had a list I'd have named them. But "The magic negro" tune appealed to them as a comedic representation of an African-American and not as satire about a newspaper article. They probably like using the Jefferson's theme song as a backdrop of an appointed African-American. Yea, sly bigotry would appeal to them. Bill Cunningham's shtick about Barrack HUSSEIN Obama probably appealed to them, as well as Glenn Beck's video montage of black people dressed in military fatigues used to stress the danger American are in from socialists.
I don't have a list of racists in the GOP, but I've seen racist antics coming from people who leech off the GOP. I can give you a list of people who have used racist antics. I don't know if they're racist or just playing to the crowd. But you probably know them already. I criticize them on a regular basis.
They are definitely among them. But there are racists on the right as well. It would be ridiculous to believe only the the left has racists and wackos. If a person on the right can't name 5 right wing wackos off the top of their head, they are indeed blinded by party (i.e., a sheep).
racist Dixieland Republicans = invisible sprites who delight in satire songs and scary pictures of black people. He can't pinpoint them, you see, but they are there nonetheless. Oh, and Beck and Limbaugh are there public enablers.
That's an awful lot of wiggling to call Glenn Beck a racist.
And you just decided to randomly mention them on a thread about a Republican from Dixie because that's how you roll.
He's used racist antics and I posted that when he ran the video montage on his show. I've said a dozen time Rush Limbaugh uses sly bigotry as part of his show, from his "Jefferson's" theme song to his Ebonics translations. This isn't new.
This type of humor appeals more on a racist level than a satire level. You are going to sit here and claim that after 10 Ebonics translations, people are sill laughing at the absurdity? I think at that point they're laughing at the funny way that black people talk.
Invisible sprites. No they're not invisible as they account for the success of this type of bigotry.
But all that is beside the point. You said I called Wilson a racist. That was a lie. Here's the difference between you and I. When I falsely accused Seton Motley of retouching a photo, I apologized.
When you falsely accuse me of calling Wilson a racist, you change the subject.
Another teachable moment. That's not conservatism, that's cowardice.
You pinpointed a Republican from Dixie as being a racist, when race had not been in the discussion at all, on a thread about a Republican from Dixie.
That's a bit like saying, a certain poster on NB is a jerk and his name looks a lot like shawn backwards, but that doesn't mean I'm talking about nwahs.
When cornered on the accusation, you said it was toward anonymous Republican bigots (presumably all from the southeast) who are amused by satire on talk radio.
So we have two options:
-you randomly decided to mention anonymous racism in the southeast on a thread about etiquette in Congress.
-you were forced to backtrack when you couldn't find proof of Wilson being racist.
I mean, I cannot count how many times you have been shown how foolish your arguments really are or jumped on some libtard bandwagon when it was already circling the toilet.
You used to defend me? Why? You don't know me from Adam. You know what other on this board know, my postings under a pseudonym. How could you defend me? I don't need defense. My principles are clear, and that is I don't make excuses for anyone no matter what ideology, and rarely make " I agree" or "me too" posts. I've been on this board for a little over 2 years. I've probably made close to 1000 posts. Of those 1000 there have been some good posts and some very stupid posts. I've apologized for the very stupid ones both publicly and privately. In those 1000 posts, there is consistency in what I believe. It doesn't change because of who says it or who disagrees. I could not possible care less about the Peyton Place aspect of this board. I'm here for the debate, not the clique. Thats not a surprise to anyone who's been around for the last couple of years.
Don't defend me. You don't know me. Address the argument. And don't be afraid to admit when you've posted a falsehood, which you did in this thread. I never called Wilson a racist and you lied when you said I did. You don't have the guts to own up to it. Thats your problem not mine, but don't even attempt to instruct me on conservatism when you don't have the personal responsibility aspect down.
You're the one who mentioned a racist Republican from Dixie on a thread about a Republican from Dixie, when no other Republican had been brought up. Weasel all you want, but those are the facts.
Your intention was crystal clear.
Now you're holding up some jive about shadow figures in South Carolina who secretly harbor racism by listening to Glenn Beck. Wheels within wheels.
So that's what happened. Smack in the middle of a conversation about Joe Wilson, you just up and decided "I should post a random complaint about racism in the south."
That explanation does not hold up. You got busted peddling the race card and backtracked when it couldn't be defended.
You said you defended me to some stranger. How could you defend me? You don't know me. What twilight zone are you in? How in the the hell could you defend me? Vouch for me, my credentials? You don't know my credentials. I'm a name on a board, I have no credentials. You don't know me, how the hell could you defend me? Stay off the rant and answer the simple question.
Perhaps its because I'm reasonable on the board? Better not say that Candance, leaves you swaying in the breeze. If I'm not reasonable on the board, why would you defend me?
You lie a lot. You lie when the truth will do. You lie, then you lie some more, then when caught you lie even more.
You have no credentials and no respect. That is why people question every little thing you do and constantly expose your lies. A very easy thing to do by the way, assume nwahs is lying and google to find the truth.
Hi, my name is nwahs, I called someone a racist, not Congressman Wilson, even though I said racist in a forum about him, and in response to posts about him. Now I claim I did not call him a racist but I refuse to actually, you know, say who I had in mind. Because I am a liar, and I have no credentials.
I used to think that JWF's "lying liar who lies about lying" mantra was overboard, and have on occasion asked him to tone it down. I defended you when you claimed to have missed some commercials on GB and others said it was impossible, I spoke up and said it would be feasible to miss them. There are other examples but I can't remember details.
And yet, right here I've dealt with you calling me a thug, a coward, and a liar, all for voicing my own opinion and then asking you about a race comment. I had to ask you like five different times before you answered, and even then all I got was "those racist people over there" as an explanation. When I challenged that as spin, I got more name calling.
I hope it was at least more than the Tollhouse recipe! ;)
Don't feel badly. We all get kicked around on here, from time to time. Sorry it was your turn. :( You know the ole saying: "you can't please all the people, all the time." Enjoy some warm cookies and milk. ^_^
Far too much going on in my head to be a yes or no.
I think everytime Obama reached the end of a sentence he had either completed a lie or an insult, or both. I was yelling "LIAR!" at the computer. I spotted more than a dozen lies and I don't even consider myself fully informed. Its rediculous that he used that forum to parent congress and parent the nation with his Daddy scolding voice. It was a foul foul speech.
I don't think Rep Wilson should have shouted out given the forum. In my heart though I can understand why. If I, as a simple housewife can spot just a few lies, someone who has lived it as a Freshman Rep had to be beyond furious. I think he should have walked out. I would have rather seen no republicans there at all but I am not certain what that would have accomplished. I am satisfied that he's apologized. But it makes me ill that he's getting trashed.
The Emporer has no clothes. Someone had to say it. The pot has boiled over.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Wilson was correct in what he did. That more of our no-nut Republicans would do the same. History shows us that our Founding Fathers did the very same thing only much louder and more persistent.
Which gets us back to the usual, democrats are always guilty of what they accuse Republicans of doing. That is the one constant. I seem to remember democrats cheering a GD Iraqi who threw his freakin' shoe at President Bush. So spare me any democrat BS. I also remember democrats booing at our President at a state of the union address.
We want the GOP to stand up, boo and catcall and turn their backs when this poser speaks in any forum. You don't like it? Tough, you don't get to call every dance tune partner.
As far as McCain goes, I guess he hasn't taken the hint yet. Well in a very few years he will. McCain, get gone, take Graham, Hatch and the rest of your demopublicans with you! We don't want bi-partisan anything. That time is over partner, take the freakin' hint. Shut-Up, sit down an just wait until you are voted out. Don't do anything, don't say anything.
All the Dems were up front and the Repubs were in the back?Just like townhall meeting where some Dems stack the deck.I remember with Bush each seem to sit on one side or the other.
What also has made me sick is the GOP and a heck of a lot of congress-critters who have had their mugs on tv since the Liar-In-Chief's hate-filled lying propaganda filled BS last night that have R's behind their names.
McC...are you listening...along with the rest of your ilk, you are the problems, you don't get it, you don't understand the millions of people who are speaking out across this country, I hope it is to all of your own detriments.
I am still furious...guess you can tell.
Btw...I hope there is a campaign donation fund that has started for Joe Wilson...and he surpasses the dem the msm is making a big deal about who they say has received lots of $$$ from donors. ..just got here, so haven't checked out other threads yet.
Btw...a lot of us here over the years have yelped about the lack of a backbone when it comes from our side of the aisle, we have a man who couldn't take the lies last night, spoke out, showed his spine, and he is reprimanded from the GOP...what does that say to us out here in the real world...they are clueless, it is time for them to go.
Binky posts a drive-by fallacious argument and runs for the hills as one person after another puts the smackdown on him. He leaves it for a drunk bigot clown, aka Binky Braveheart jr. (007memo) to carry his water.
Prove it. Let's see something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
I submit this to you:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
First of all, he is quoting from the house bill. And it is a fallacious argument, Binky's first love, Exception that proves the rule. I posted this directly from the Legal Insurrection blog.
UPDATE: One of the talking points I have seen in numerous comments posted around the blogosphere is that Obama was correct because Section 246 of the House Bill excludes illegals from receiving Individual Affordability Credits. That is true, and one of the few exceptions under the Bill. But it is the exception which proves the rule. As the CRS found, illegal aliens can participate in most of the critical aspects of the government health system including the health care exchanges.
Did you catch that boys and girls? Illegal aliens can participate in Critical Aspects of the government. They can have government insurance! If you are really poor, the government will help out with the payments, illegal aliens are exempt from that. But they can have government insurance!
H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.
The Exchange boys and girls, aka the government option, aka the public option, aka Obamacare. Illegal aliens can get government coverage.
Now what was it President Obama said?
There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
WHOA NELLY! PBO says it is false that we would insure illegal aliens.
But according to the House Bill that Binky Braveheart quoted from, this is not true. We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens.
Hear that Binky?
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
Twice now, I have Proved it. I showed him something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
What gives Binky? You gonna get your drunk bigot clown to fill in for you again?
According to H.R. bill 3200, the bill President Obama endorsed in July, and the bill JasonC quoted from, illegal aliens can opt in to the government insurance option.
Unemployed illegal aliens cannot however get cash assistance to help pay for the government insurance they opted into according to Section 246, the section JasonC quoted.
Employed illegal aliens, and rich illegal aliens can opt into government insurance. How much more black and white do I have to get for JasonC to admit he was wrong?
There is a time for manners, and a time to speak. Joe
Wilson apologized for his behavior, but not the
content of his comment. Thus he makes it clear that he agrees the standard of decorum was breached, but still feels the Big O is a liar.
Other things being equal, the office of the POTUS deserves respect. But things are not equal, and Obama was the guy making the speech. He has not earned my respect, far from it. Obama is the one disrespecting the Presidency.
If Obama was a run-of-the-mill president, I'd vote it was inappropriate. But Obama is working to distort the basic nature of America. He started by running as a centrist, his first major lie. That is more important than decorum.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
'Twill be interesting to
September 10, 2009 - 08:54 ET by Indiana Joe'Twill be interesting to see how this develops. 7 out of 8 say "no" right now, for 88%.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Hang around
September 10, 2009 - 09:57 ET by nwahsBy the end of this thread Wilson will be the front runner for 2012. The only thing better than a conservative around here is an obnoxious conservative with no self discipline.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
keep em coming nwahs
September 10, 2009 - 10:04 ET by candanceYou're running out of conservatives you haven't criticized. Done pretending to be one yet?
nwahs is a very unusual Conservative. He is so...
September 10, 2009 - 10:36 ET by jawebster1unusual, that he may or not be a Conservative or a Liberal. He is the political equivalent of a hermaphrodite. Jim Webster
And you are primarily a
September 10, 2009 - 10:44 ET by nwahsAnd you are primarily an emotionally arrested adolescent. But you just hide in the herd. That way you're a conservative and no one will notice you are emotionally arrested and giggle at hermaphroditism and "Uranus" jokes.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
shawn
September 10, 2009 - 10:24 ET by larry on LIyou must have a very short memory span,or a very selective one, because the democrits did the same to bush. i guess your mother never taught you the saying 'what's good for the goose ,is good for the gander'.
Democrats do a lot of obnoxious things
September 10, 2009 - 10:29 ET by nwahsDemocrats do all sorts of obnoxious things. That doesn't mean I'm going to condone the actions of thugs and anti-social racists/Dixiecrats posing as conservatives. Let a liberal weed out the thugs posing as liberals.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
the race card
September 10, 2009 - 10:32 ET by candanceBeen cruising lefty commen sections much?
As opposed to
September 10, 2009 - 12:45 ET by JimcinscAn obnoxious socialist liberal who's never worked for an honest day's pay in his life?
On more than one occasion...
September 10, 2009 - 14:27 ET by retroconThe dems in congress have boo'ed Bush, they even started a chorus of "no, no, no" during a state of the union address once... it's all out there to discover if one opens ones mind to facts.
The only issue i have with calling a liar a liar is that it wasn't ALL of the republicans in congress shouting it out, not just Wilson.
HELL NO!!!!! Rep. Wilson
September 10, 2009 - 08:56 ET by Scuba DudeHELL NO!!!!!
Rep. Wilson was only telling the truth. What was wrong about that? And as far as the setting, it was not a State of the Union and Obama was going full bore lying and blaming Republicans for everything.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
I started to vote yes,
September 10, 2009 - 09:20 ET by motherbeltI started to vote yes, because of the setting, but then I thought the same way that you did....it was not a State of the Union Speech (during which, BTW, the Democrats had no problem BOOING Presdent Bush....link to video not working; the server probably crashed!)
Besides, the "setting" was chosen by the President, clearly for the purpose of giving his speech the aura of "from the mountaintop" so to speak, and to impart an air of authority, pre-empting disagreement. In this setting, he assumed he would be unassailable.
So his fans seem troubled that someone DARED to speak out and challenge him. This while he was standing there and calling his opponents liars.
So I voted NO.
MB, In essence this was
September 10, 2009 - 09:28 ET by Scuba DudeMB,
In essence this was Obama's Town Hall. Rep. Wilson was only doing what he was supposed to do. Call the liar out for what he is.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
I agree with you!! But he
September 10, 2009 - 09:51 ET by motherbeltI agree with you!! But he wanted it to be more of a "proclamation from the mountaintop" which is why he chose this setting! He assumed they would be intimidated by it (that's the word I was looking for in my comment above!!) and sit quietly for his lecture, only applauding when necessary.
My "NO" vote meant that Wilson was not out of line!
Now I'm not so sure
September 10, 2009 - 09:59 ET by KC MulvilleYou may have changed my mind, MB. I voted that it was disrespectful; that was my first reaction.
But you're right. Obama basically held the country hostage. He put himself in a position where he couldn't be opposed. That's something we tolerate in presidents, but only if they act presidential, i.e., they don't take advantage of the opposition-free forum to take gratuitous potshots. He took advantage of our respect for the office.
I still don't like it. But you have a very good point.
Beg to differ,
September 10, 2009 - 14:08 ET by JerBeg to differ, mb...
Obama referred to claims regarding panels of bureaucrats having the power to kill off senior citizens--and said such charges were cynical, irresponsible and lies.
He assumed he would be unassailable? Really? He's being assailed relentlessly 24/7; in additon, the GOP is afforded--and availed itself of--their rebuttal opportunity immediately following the President's address. What Obama should not assume is that a member of the opposition party would shout out "you lie" in the middle of his speech before Congress. It was an inappropriate forum plain and simple. If the U.S. House and Senate would prefer to change rules of behavior to be more in line with that permissable in the British parliament, they are free to do so. But unless and until they do, Wilson's conduct was clearly out of line. "Yes" is the only logical vote.
Jer
With respect, Jer, I disagree
September 10, 2009 - 14:31 ET by KC MulvilleMB's point is correct. Obama chose that forum because he didn't want to face opposition when he made accusations of lies of his own. He wanted to call other people liars, but be shielded himself. In that, it was an act of political cowardice. Obama exploited the forum to take potshots. As soon as he called his opponents liars, and claimed they were trying to score cheap political points, he lost the presumption of respect. If you don't show respect to others, you get none yourself.
By analogy ... suppose the local politician goes into a cathedral, and during mass he stands up and calls his opponent a jerkoff. The crowd boos. The politician doesn't have the right to say to the crowd, "stop that, we're in church."
There's a difference between politics and statecraft. Assembling both houses of Congress to make a speech is reserved for statecraft, usually for matters of war. But Obama used it as grandstand play to promote a domestic policy on which he's losing, both on the vote and with the public. And to make it worse, he cast the political opposition as liars and cheats. At that point, he lost the right to be shown deference, since he so egregiously disrespected others.
~Inappropriate
September 10, 2009 - 14:35 ET by choselife3xObama demonstrably twisted the truth about the healthcare bill.
Obama referred to "prominent politicians" concerns about the healthcare bill in this manner, "It's a lie, plain and simple".
Obama derisively dismissed the voice of the American people by telling them to "Stop talking".
Obama promises that the White House will "punch back twice as hard" if Republicans challenge HR 3200.
Now:
Sarah Palin's remarks on the healthcare bill are all backed up with references. She goes to the heart of the matter with precision and says nothing vague or ambiguous.
If anything she has written there is a lie, please refute it. Thanks.
Isn't it Obama who says we
September 10, 2009 - 22:56 ET by NL207Isn't it Obama who says we should be looking more to how things are done in Europe? I thought Wilson's gesture was entirely within the scope of European parlaimentary conduct.
Now, if Obama wants American parlaimentary precepts to prevail, then I think he owes us the courtesy to stop lying to our faces.
Rep. Wilson was only
September 10, 2009 - 09:25 ET by JasonCRep. Wilson was only telling the truth.
Prove it. Let's see something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
I submit this to you:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully
present in the United States.
I realize this is just one part of a gigantic bill. Please point out the clause that backs up your position.
No coverage for illegals
September 10, 2009 - 09:32 ET by MidAmericaThis is no change in the system we have now. Illegals will not be denied service even if they are denied coverage. Just ask the border state medical services who treat illegals without receiving payment and are either broke or nearly so.
So the quibble now is that
September 10, 2009 - 09:34 ET by JasonCSo the quibble now is that Obama is not changing existing healthcare practices thoroughly enough?
Quibble?
September 10, 2009 - 09:44 ET by Indiana JoeThe speech was laced with "untruths." Read the AP "fact-checker" piece.
There is no provision for requiring proof of citizenship. So, hocus-pocus, how can a doctor tell if one is an illegal? And you can bet there will be cries (once again) of "racism" if it's suggested anyone checks. Just like the shrieks of outrage when it is suggested that folks provide picture ID to vote.
And you're trying to twist this thread... as usual. The "quibble" is keep the government out of my doctor's office!!!
You know, kinda like "keep the government out of my womb?"
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
how can a doctor tell if one is an illegal?
September 10, 2009 - 09:50 ET by SickofLibsHmmm...arrive at the clinic by burro and wearing a sombrero?
I didn't twist the thread
September 10, 2009 - 09:55 ET by JasonCI didn't twist the thread topic. You are trying to make it more general than it is. The topic at hand pertains to Wilson's childish heckling in response to a statement about illegal immigrants' access to healthcare. And gee f---in' whiz, that's exactly what I posted about. So why don't you stop twisting threads with your bumper sticker platitudes?
You tried to redefine
September 10, 2009 - 10:47 ET by Indiana JoeYou tried to redefine what the "quibble" was. This thread IS about Wilson's "decorum" or lack thereof. And it was perfectly appropriate of Wilson when Obama got up there and accused everyone opposing him of lying or "twisting the truth" or whatever euphemism you prefer. Obama "called them out." Wilson answered the call.
Did you have a problem with "decorum" when Democrats booed Bush during a State of the Union address? Obama called for this forum, it was his choice to appear, and he had no right to abuse people and hide behind some one-sided concept of "decorum" while trash-talking the opposition.
Bring real debate back to our legislature. Get rid of the "back room deals" and give us transparency. When you get up to address OUR Congress, you best be ready to back up what you say. That's how it was when this country was founded. And how it should be again.
"Bumper-sticker platitudes?" The only "bumper-sticker" slogan I used was one your own side really took to heart a few years ago. And I used it as a parody. But, if you consider discussing health-care on a thread that's about an aspect of the President's health-care speech as "derailing," well, I guess I'm guilty of that. Well, as guilty as you, CTTOI. So I apologize for that, it was a cheap shot.
But my point about the illegals being covered still stands. No provision for checking citizenship. So how can the famous Section 246 (I think it is) actually be enforced?
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Oh, please. Let's go back
September 10, 2009 - 13:46 ET by JerOh, please. Let's go back yet another decade and another administration and examine the disrespectful behavior of Republicans during Clinton's SOTU addresses. The fact remains Wilson's "liar" shoutout was unprecedented in recent American history--despite the unsupported and unsupportable "they did it to Bush" whines to the contrary.
Wilson explicitly engaged in censurable behavior on the floor of Congress. Why do you think he apologized? Because he's an unprincipled coward? Because Republicans are just inherently nicer people than Democrats.? No, and no. He did so because he realized he was wrong. It was not the appropriate setting. End of story.
Jer
jer,
September 11, 2009 - 11:15 ET by AgnosticJust like the rhetoric during the campaigns there seems to be an escalation of less than appropriate behavior by our politicians. It is disingenuous to say the ‘you lie’ is anywhere near what President Bush received but it does stand out. You see when the Democrats heckled Bush there was so many people mumbling and talking that you didn’t know what any one person said. I still remember the look on Ms. Clinton’s face when the Democrats interrupted Bush’s speech to applaud their own attempt to kill reform to Social Security. I don’t agree with it either way because as I was often told in the Navy, ‘even if you don’t respect the man, you have to respect his rank’. I’m not military any more but I don’t want anyone trying to embarrass the office of the President even if I disagree with nearly everything President Obama has done. If the person in the office of the President of the US embarrasses the office that is when the people have to judge for themselves what is appropriate and I honestly think this is very close. Close because this was not an event suitable for a Joint Sessions, the event was used to deliver a campaign speech without the venue of debate and many, many people were insulted or dismissed by the man elected to be their President.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
Truth, not Stranger than Indiana Joe's Fiction
September 10, 2009 - 15:47 ET by 007memoIndiana says: "Read the AP "fact-checker" piece."
Here's from the AP piece you refer to:
THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage.
According to you fact check source, and any reality check, Joe Wilson is lying. The fact is, he's a dirty bald faced liar.
More from your AP piece:
"Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due."
The current law, signed into law by your Republican president, requires that all human beings be treated in emergency rooms. If that's Socialism, call me comrade.
the rest of the quote
September 10, 2009 - 16:02 ET by katainkent-and per -
-and RealClearPolitics Agrees-
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Katainkent, Illegals can buy insurance
September 10, 2009 - 19:07 ET by 007memo1.) "Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due." So why will illegals be more likely to be able to obtain government insurance when they currently can't partake in other Federal programs like Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc
2.) "Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."
So, yes, illegals can buy health insurance at full price. Instead of being a burden on the health care system they will be able to pay their own way. They are already able to do just that right now anyway. This is a great benefit to you and me. Don't you agree?
3.) "Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families."
Who cares? So the husband, wife or child of a United states citizen is going to wind up with insurance. Not such a bad thing.
4.) "Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the prohibition in the House bill doesn't go far enough. For him and other Republicans, the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out."
So this kinda boils down to the fear of what might happen. Opponents can trump those fears up to the level of a tempest in a teapot. And they are.
"fear of what might happen"
September 10, 2009 - 19:10 ET by katainkentsome people call that contingency planning.
I call it smart business.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Everyone else calls it Fearmongering, Katain
September 10, 2009 - 21:13 ET by 007memoEveryone else calls it Fearmongering, Katain.
Without it, this website wouldn't even exist.
000memo
September 10, 2009 - 22:08 ET by well99Could you post the link to everyone?Or are you suffering from talkingoutyourass disease.Seek help.
Link to what, well99?
September 11, 2009 - 18:05 ET by 007memoLink to what, well99? I followed the link a commenter provided supposedly proving a point and dissected the dissembling of the blogger.
All I see anyone here providing for evidence are links to speculation and innuendo. Things that "might" happen, yet all the facts indicate or prove the contrary.
Links to bloggers who confirm the irrational rantings of a commenter are not evidence of anything except confirmation of irrational rantings.
000memo
September 11, 2009 - 18:43 ET by well99I say you have a definate case of lyingoutyouyass.Seek help.You need it.I wouldnt recommend waiting for Obamacare.They will probably put the plug on you.
I say you don't know lies from facts well99.
September 11, 2009 - 19:32 ET by 007memoI say you don't know lies from facts well99.
All you have is fearmongering talking points from charlatans. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a fact to prove their point instead of "they might" do this, or "I think" they'll do that. How about you, well 99!
And don't repeat Palin's lying speculations as proof of anything except fearmongering. In fact, if you consider Palin's big lies as serious critique, go back to grade school.
>FLUSH!<
September 11, 2009 - 20:18 ET by NL207>FLUSH!<
Damn NL20, that is a
September 11, 2009 - 20:45 ET by Scuba DudeDamn NL20, that is a perfect response to that twit.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
000memo
September 11, 2009 - 21:50 ET by well99Yawn.Boring.Hate to hurt your feelings but I dont consider you a expert on anything except repeating left wing rhetoric.Obama lied.
everyone else who?
September 10, 2009 - 22:32 ET by katainkentyou have a mouse in your pocket?
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
katiankent has no rebuttal
September 11, 2009 - 20:35 ET by 007memoI listed four points for you katainkent and the best you've got is: "some people call that contingency planning. I call it smart business". Well "I call it", ya got nuthin. You don't know fact from fiction - something your puppeteers rely on. I'll await your rebuttal. I expect you'll cut and paste from The Right Wing Talking Point Handbook.
Illegals. You speak of
September 10, 2009 - 22:36 ET by NL207Illegals. You speak of them as if they are respectable citizens. Has it ever occurred to you that we call 'illegals' illegals because they are criminal invaders? Violators of our laws and sovereignty?
Illegals ought not to be permitted to use ANY public facilities. In fact, they should be expelled without hearing, remorse or debate when detected, not entitled to purchase public health insurance at any price. Moreover, should they ever return again after being expeled once, without the permission of our government, they should be subjected to deadly force to expel them permanently.
As for what this bill leaves out, what do you suppose the Federal Judiciary is going to do with this? I think they will apply this law to illegals because the law [HR 3200] does not specifically exclude them. The CRS was very clear on this. Illegals WILL be able to access these benefits. Moreover, there is no enforcement provision built into this law. i.e., there is no verification nor is there any penalty prescribed for applying for benefits fraudulently.
What you are engaged in is at best wishful thinking and at worse, deceit.
Illegals are here to benefit big business, nl207
September 11, 2009 - 19:18 ET by 007memoThere's a new law requiring businesses with Federal Contracts prove that their employees are legal residents of the US.
The US Chamber of Commerce apposes that law. Do you wonder why?
How did we wind up with 22 million illegal aliens in the first place if it weren't for the complicity of your favorite political party? Remember that Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006.
And, as for your redneck rantings about what we should do to illegals but failed to do while Republiacans controlled Congress and the Presidency; our government can't bring one terrorist to justice (Osama Bin Laden), what can they do about 22 million illegals?
And lastly, "I think they will apply this law to illegals" you say, nl207. Well, I think monkeys may fly out of your butt. Both of us think, and both of our thinks have the same validity.
Hmm
September 11, 2009 - 21:10 ET by general companyMakes one wonder why you libs are so much in favor of keeping them here? Seems that since they undercut your wages and force you to pay for their burden on the system (education, health care, ect) you would want them gone?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Good Point general company
September 11, 2009 - 22:34 ET by 007memoGood point general company. Seems like it's not a black and white issue after all, though many pretend it is.
After controlling the Congress since 1994, and Presidency since 2001, and all the while doing absolutely nothing about the problem, Republican politicians made illegals the wedge issue for the 2006 election. And their rabid minions ate it up.
But you have to wonder what promises Republicans actually kept after that election? If you're honest, none at all - we still have 22 million illegals.
By the same token, as you point out, if the Democrats were true to their constituents, they would be railing against the loss of jobs to the illegals.
If it's in the best interest of both Republican and Democrats to solve the illegals problem, why is neither party actually doing anything about it.
Hmmmmm. Who could be benefitting from allowing all these illegals in this country if it's not you and me?
But as far as healthcare goes, Republicans are again cynically making illegals a wedge issue. But what's worse, if that's really possible, there's no truth to the claim that the plan would give free healhtcare to illegals.
Send them back!!!!
September 11, 2009 - 22:40 ET by RESTLESS 1You're right. Illegals benefit both parties. As soon as they enter, you have republicans giving them jobs on the cheap, and democrats registering them to vote.
The fact is that healthcare is provided freely to illegals now. That HR3200 continues that trend is indeed fact. Like or not, that's how it is.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
No restless, illegals benefit the few
September 12, 2009 - 16:38 ET by 007memoNo restless, illegals benefit the few. Big business is the greatest benefactor and that easily explains why we have 22 million illegals.
Big business in turn buys off your favorite politician. When Republicans were in power, they bought the Republicans. Now that Dems are in power their buying more Democrats. Big business always gets what it pays for.
"The fact is that healthcare is provided freely to illegals now." you say. I guess if you consider that a hospital is required by law (a law signed by your Republican President) to treat any bleeding patient that shows up at their door, you are correct. But what do you suggest is the solution to this problem? Would that be "the final solution"?
And the fact that illegals will be able to continue to buy, at full price with no subsidies from the government, commercially available health insurance under the new plan; is that somehow a bad thing? Is this what has you all riled up? Is this what the "LIAR" accusation is all about? You don't want illegals to pay their own way? Okay then, what is your solution?
And, I'm not claiming that the illegals problem is just caused by Republican sloth, but it is the Republicans supreme hypocrisy to pretend that they had taken a single step during their reign in power, a power that was absolute since they controlled both the Congress and Presidency, to limit the influx of illegals into this country. lol
I can't let this comment go "and democrats registering them to vote." There has not been a single instance of voter fraud in this country that would corraborate that claim. We had eight years of Republican Attorneys General and they failed to prove such. If the fraud had been there, they would have found it. The Democrats have plenty of real faults you could exploit, this one is just a silly conspiracy theory.
You also say "Send them back". Who, pray tell, is going to round up 22 million illegals and send them back? As much as they bluster otherwise for their minions, not your favorite Republican politician, and certainly not the Democrats. Who then? LOL
the Drunk Bigot Clown is back.
September 12, 2009 - 16:45 ET by JWFNot reading your lies Drunk Bigot Clown. How long did you spend tap tap tapping away on something no one will read.
Hey, Binky Braveheart is calling, time to kiss his butt again Drunk Bigot Clown.
Who here has not lamented Bush's softness on illegals?
September 12, 2009 - 18:26 ET by RESTLESS 1I never liked Bush's, or McCains's stance on border security, or amnesty. I don't like the 0's either. What's your point? It damn sure wasn't democrats that stopped McCain-Kennedy, now is it? So how are we hypocritical again?
Besides, we don't have to round up 22 million illegals. We need to cut them off from public housing, free medical care, free education, and prosecute those that employ them fully, even toughening the punishments if need be, and they will go back on their own.
Oh, and they are not registered to vote? These links say otherwise. Now, who do you suppose registered them? The republicans that never had their votes anyway?
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
That the best you got, restless?
September 13, 2009 - 00:29 ET by 007memoThat the best you got, restless!?! You link to a 2007 "Exclusive" from a two bit right wing AM radio station in Bexar Texas. They think as many as 41 illegals voted. 41 illegals voted out of half a million eligible voters in the county! Are you kiddin me???
And did you notice that the sub heading to the article is "Officials are confident new procedures will purge them from the rolls". So, in plain English, it's a very tiny problem that is easily taken care of.
Then you link to a right wing blogger, reporting from his mother's basement, who refers back to the same Bexar County story and then speculates about how bad it must be in other parts of the country. ROFLMAO
And, your first link went nowhere.
Not the point
September 13, 2009 - 20:50 ET by RESTLESS 1The point is you said it wasn't proven. It is. You lie just like your obamessiah. That is 41 in ONE county. It doesn't take a genius to extrapolat that out across the country. I does, however, take a myopic idiot of epic proportions to consider this a "tiny" problem.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
The Drunk Bigot Clown is just killing time until he gets banned.
September 13, 2009 - 22:42 ET by JWFD.B.C.: There has not been a single instance of voter fraud in this country that would corraborate that claim. We had eight years of Republican Attorneys General and they failed to prove such.
It is called moving the goalposts. He wants proof on a single instance. You provide proof of 41 instances. Time to move the goalposts. Suddenly it has to be a sizable majority -
That the best you got, restless!?! ... 41 illegals voted out of half a million eligible voters in the county! Are you kiddin me???
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
No Facts to Back Vote Fraud Claim, JWF
September 14, 2009 - 10:28 ET by 007memoJWF this is the second time I've scolded you about your needing to go back to that 7th Grade Reading Compreshension class. Once again we see Johnny can't read.
Restless claims that Democrats are registering illegals to vote and I called him on his nonsensical claims:
"Now, who do you suppose registered them? The republicans that never had their votes anyway? "
And he makes the statement that it's "democrats registering them to vote."
He did not, and can not, corraborate that claim he made. Instead he links to a story about 41 illegals, out of a half million voters, having voted illegally in Bexar county Texas. No mention of Dems having registered them. ROFLMAO at JWF and restless.
The best you got JWF is calling names, you'd have been better of with that tactic.
Repubs had significant Hispanic Support as of 2006, restless.
September 13, 2009 - 02:02 ET by 007memoRestless makes a false claim "The republicans that never had their votes anyway?"
Repubs had significant Hispanic support as of 2006.
In 2006, the gap between Hispanic leaning Republican versus Democrats was only 23%. That wasn't much. Since then though, that gap has widened further as Republicans lost support not just among Hispanics, but across most demographics as well.
More than likely, the Republicans are losing Hispanic support because of the far right vitriol that dominates the illegal immigration debate. Keep it up!
007 is a racist
September 13, 2009 - 02:05 ET by RESTLESS 1I didn't say hispanics. I said illegals. Why do you assume that all illegals are brown?
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Racist 007
September 13, 2009 - 02:13 ET by RESTLESS 1Are these people racists too? We already know you are.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Restless loses argument, pathetic
September 13, 2009 - 15:12 ET by 007memoRestless loses argument, pathetically accuse 007 of being racist.
You link to "evidence" that is not evidence at all - I call you on it and your defense is calling me a racist?
I'm sorry to humiliate you like that but you can do better than calling me a racist. Maybe not.
00racist
September 13, 2009 - 20:46 ET by RESTLESS 1You said there were no registered illegals. I linked to credible sites proving that there are. You said nothing of the links, just made the laughable statement that hispanics were backing rebublicans, (a 23% gap, is that all? No wonder you think all those repubs were registering them), then claim to have won the argument. I have dismantled you, and proven you a racist in 2-3 posts. Not even a challenge.
And to further humiliate you, my good friend CL3X might just link to this at kos or du for all your buddies to see just how easily you were thrashed.
C-ya 00granddragon
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
000memo
September 13, 2009 - 03:37 ET by well99You do know that illegals come from all countries and not just from coming across our borders.There is Irish,Euros,Chinese,people from all corners of the world.See you need to look inward to see who the real racist is.Most on the left do because they believe others think like them.That is why they always play the race card.You might take time to disassociate yourself from the Dem party.The party of the KKK.Get some help.Racism is a disease.Good luck with your treatment...ohm..ohm
Weak Accusation from a Racist, well99
September 13, 2009 - 14:47 ET by 007memoI guess you're tired of being called a racist and understand what a vile claim that is.
81% of illegals are from Mexico or Latin America. Acknowledgement of that fact is not racism. But facts don't matter to you, you just want to cry "racist"!!!
000memo
September 13, 2009 - 15:59 ET by well99Actually you assumed all illegal’s were Hispanics. Also you assume that Hispanics will vote against those opposed to illegal immigration. It cant be they have different views on political policies of candidates. No it must be about illegal immigration. As member of the party of the KKK you need to get help. Maybe you could give Sen. Byrd a call. Talk over old times.
I assume your none too bright, well99
September 13, 2009 - 19:39 ET by 007memoSince your none too bright, your only response when made to look foolish is to yell "racist". YOu figure it works for JWF and restless, etc why not you? Touche!
Double Zero
September 13, 2009 - 19:50 ET by Free Stinker. . . that's really funny especially after you did "your" instead of "you're"
000memo
September 13, 2009 - 20:06 ET by well99No I am just trying to help you.Your racist attitudes really need to change.It isnt good for you.It will eat away at you.Please seek help because you really need it.I am sure if you cant afford it there is a free program for you.Good luck on your treatment.Email us to let us know how you are progressing.You know you might be able to get a group rate.That way you can bring all your leftist buddies.
Of course we are?
September 11, 2009 - 22:54 ET by general companyBut as far as healthcare goes, Republicans are again cynically making illegals a wedge issue.
This is how it works, we tell them (congress, POTUS) what we dont like about it then they (congress, POTUS) are supposed to go back and try to solve to problem with it.These jokers dont seem to care? Why do you think they will give 2 turds about anything you want? You would enable them to further control us, until not even you and you liberal buds will be able to stop it. BTW this is one of many WEDGE issues.
Also blaming Repubs for illegals is pretty lame, as if they are the only ones hiring them. Who has been hiring all of the labor in Cali?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I see that YOUR favorite
September 12, 2009 - 00:08 ET by NL207I see that YOUR favorite political party wants to prevent illegals from enetering and run the ones here right out of Dodge, yes? Why is that? So they can have them vote illegally as is current widespread practice in several states with large illegal populations and no proof of citizenship requirements for registration? California for one? Criminals one and all.
I don't care why the illegals are here. They weren't invited. They entered in defiance of US Sovereignty. I and a majority of the citizenry want them out. If they refuse to go peaceably there is a remedy for that. The failure of Republicans to accomplish that might just be one of the reasons they were not returned to office.
You don't think at all, you emote. Emotion has no validity in logic.
The AP as a 'source'?
September 10, 2009 - 16:08 ET by pahuberWhat next? Clippings from the KOS?
That might be next
September 10, 2009 - 17:44 ET by well99Along with Tax tips from Charley Rangel.It is ok for Obama to accuse others of lying but you cant call him on it.
ok for (DOTUS) to accuse others of lying but you cant call him
September 10, 2009 - 18:13 ET by vrwc13ok for Obama to accuse others of lying but you cant call him on it.
...guess we ought to get used to it being the DOTUS and all...
v
...D for Deceiver or Dictator, you choose
vrwc13
September 10, 2009 - 18:26 ET by well99I go with Deciever for now but he is working on the second choice.Just like his buddy Chavez.
Maybe D'DOTUS... v
September 10, 2009 - 18:29 ET by vrwc13Maybe D'DOTUS...
v
Obama should no longer be
September 10, 2009 - 09:50 ET by Scuba DudeObama should no longer be known as POTUS, after last night I will be calling him LOTUS, Liar Of The United States. He would do well selling snake-oil and Isuzu's.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
Thank you! LOTUS is the best, I love it! I cannot bring myself
September 10, 2009 - 10:08 ET by Poljunkof using President and his name in the same sentence... I have been looking for a way of referring to him without being disparaging to the position but without giving him the status the position gives to whomever holds the White House. Thank you!
I cannot bring myself..using President and his name in the same
September 10, 2009 - 10:16 ET by vrwc13I cannot bring myself of using President and his name in the same sentence...
Agree, LOTUS is fitting.
I have been using 'the man in the Whitehouse'.
v
by any other name
September 10, 2009 - 10:54 ET by jon_torlinI like LOTUS as well, will be used quite enthusiastically I'm sure.
Also, I refuse to call him Obama, I prefer to call him Soetoro since that was one of his aliases when he was overseas. Heck, his wife calls him Barry. (Barry, Bah-Rock, doesn't fit phonetically)
I've been using Usurper in Chief myself.
-Jon
May i suggest...
September 10, 2009 - 14:34 ET by retroconthere are lot's of liars in power right now... Bullosi, cantReid, Dirtbin, Franknbeans...
Migh i suggest CLOTUS. Chief Liar Of The U.S.
DOTUS?
September 10, 2009 - 16:09 ET by vrwc13...Deceiver of the U.S. or this...
v
Also for your
September 10, 2009 - 16:09 ET by MikeBAlso for your consideration:
Ear Leader
Dear Leader
Teh One
Obamanation
Obamessiah
Obamandias paraphrased from Shelley's poem ("My name is Obamandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!")
pResident
the Magic Negro (from the L.A. Times liberal editor)
Jugears
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
JasonC
September 10, 2009 - 10:31 ET by MightyMouthH.R. 3200 Doesn't define "UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS". Remember, the Democrats voted that down when the Republicans tried to put that in the bill!
Result: Obama is a liar!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
Wow
September 10, 2009 - 11:22 ET by well99I am glad to see you can be counted on to have two standards.Obama opened himself up to it with
"The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible."It is a lie, plain and simple."
So Wilson did the same thing.Glad to see it.If Obama wants to go there he opens himself up to get it right back.
Oh Binky! Binkyboy! Binky Braveheart. Calling out JasonC!
September 10, 2009 - 11:55 ET by JWFYou engaging in fallacious arguments again?
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/09/house-bill-does-cover-illegals.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19592760/Treatment-of-Non-Citizens-in-HR-3200
Please point out the clause that backs up your position.
I did as you told. Now I want you to tell us all what website you got your information off of. Please. Honestly.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF uses Dissembler to back him up
September 10, 2009 - 17:16 ET by 007memoJWF posts opinion from William Jacobsen as proof... of whatever.
Mr. Jacobsen is a supreme dissembler. He engages in hair splitting semantics to posit that Obama is a liar. Quite disgusting actually, and quite transparent. When you have to go to such painful lengths to supposedly prove your point, you've already lost the argument.
The maleable sheep reading his screed won't recognize Jacobsen's dissembling, nor do they have the inclination to try to understand it. They simply read his blog for a refreshing cup of "Obama's a liar" flavored Kool Aid.
Obama is a liar.He is
September 12, 2009 - 00:02 ET by NL207Obama is a liar.
He is lying when he says illegals won't be covered. the CRS says they will be.
He is lying when he says there are no 'Death Panels'. There WILL be government imposed rationaing and that rationing will on occasion withhold life extending therapies from patients who might otherwise benefit from them.
He is lying when he says this plan will be deficit neutral. It will actually cost far more than he says it will, or, see 'death panels' above.
He is lying when he says you can keep your existing heath care. He knows full well the regulations he intends to impose will drive almost all private plans out of business.
He is lying when he says the 'special interests' oppose this plan. They are all on his team: AARP, AMA, Nurses Association, Hospital Association, Big Pharma, etc.
He is lying when he says 47 million people are without health insurance. At any given time it is less than that, because that number from the Census includes millions of people who lacked insurance for 3 months or less.
Notice anything boys and girls? Anyone? Pipe up if you see it.
September 11, 2009 - 01:13 ET by JWFThat is correct boys and girls. The bigot engaged in nothing but an ad hominem attack in response to my post.
Did you see any refutation of what I posted by the 007Bigot? Nope, it was 2 paragraphs of a personal attack against a lawyer that uses his actual real identity in a blog.
Notice anything else boys and girls? Again, correct. JasonC posted a direct dare to all at NewsBusters. A bunch of us responded with the accurate truth. What do we get?
Binky Braveheart jr with ad hominem attacks.
I told you Binky "I opposed the war" Braveheart was a coward and a scoundrel. He makes a dare, gets called on it and runs. Then sends in a drunk clown to try and clean up the mess.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF proves my point about Jacobsen
September 11, 2009 - 21:05 ET by 007memoSpeaking of malleable sheep, JWF, I reiterate: "The malleable sheep reading his screed won't recognize Jacobsen's dissembling, nor do they have the inclination to try to understand it. They simply read his blog for a refreshing cup of "Obama's a liar" flavored Kool Aid."
Jacobsen isn't even good at what he does, he's an amateur at propaganda.
You assignment, JWF: Instead of reading meaning into what Jacobsen actually writes, carefully dissect his composition and you'll recognize the dissembling.
After doing so, if you still conclude: "Obama's a liar!!!" it's time to go back to 7th grade English. Or 7th grade logic.
Obama's a liar!!!
September 11, 2009 - 22:13 ET by RESTLESS 1Illegals will be mandated, (still don't know why anyone who doesn't want coverage, and can pay medical bills without it, would be MANDATED to have coverage), to have coverage. That alone puts illegals into the system. I understand that democrats need the votes, but for you, or The 0 the liar to state that illegals won't be covered, given the fact that coverage will be mandated, is...well below 7th grade logic. Every other damn thing illegals can't afford is subsidised by us, so what makes this any different? The 0 the liar said so?
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
R1... Double O has a
September 11, 2009 - 22:18 ET by bigtimerR1...
Double O has a thing for the number seven.
Cracks me up.
I usually try to avoid the trollster...at times he is comical though, depending on how you look at it, for me today the comedic posts from him have put me in 7th Heaven with laughter.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Evenin' BT
September 11, 2009 - 22:24 ET by RESTLESS 1007 is...well how do I put this politely? I can't. This character is stupid and stubborn. A dangerous malady that afflicts the left on a pandemic scale.
BTW, had a lot of rain here this week, my vacation wouldn't you know it. :(
Oh well, we've needed it, badly. I hope all is well up north, as it may be a rough winter for you guys. Keep warm.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Glad you got some rain
September 11, 2009 - 22:33 ET by bigtimerR1...
Thanks...hope your algoreglobalwarming winter is good for you as well. ;-)
Will be the first winter in so long without a wood stove I don't know how I am going to get used to it after all these years and the uses there are for it that I use...anyway, next year is a different story.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Stupid dupes
September 11, 2009 - 22:14 ET by RESTLESS 1Deleted
Try this: emphasis
September 10, 2009 - 23:35 ET by NL207Try this: emphasis mine.
"Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health insurance.24 Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health insurance. Notably, the IRC does not contain special rules for individuals who are in the United States without authorization (i.e., illegal or unauthorized aliens). Instead, the IRC treats these individuals in the same manner as other foreign nationals—an unauthorized individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial presence test is classified as a resident alien; otherwise, the individual is classified as a nonresident alien.25 Thus, it would appear that unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance."
The reference is the CRS report on HR 3200 you've probably heard about. It says that HR3200 will serve illegals and cites the sections of HR3200 that will compel this.
OK, but we're citing an
September 11, 2009 - 08:44 ET by JasonCOK, but we're citing an analysis of the bill, not the bill itself, yes? And as I alluded waaaay above in this thread, the issue isn't that Obama is introducing healthcare for illegal immigrants, but that he isn't doing enough to prevent it or eradicate it from the current system. It's not as though undocumented aliens suddenly started receiving subsidized healthcare the day Obama was inaugurated.
Also, I'm confused, but maybe just misreading:
Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g.,
temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less
than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health
insurance . . . unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.
Also, a word to those who are basically saying "You go girl, tell it like it is" with regard to Wilson's horrendously inappropriate outburst: Yes, Obama has used the word "lying" as well. What he has not done is interrupted another person's formal address to do so. It was the manner, not the content, of his accusation that is making the headlines.
Yea, Binky, You act all confused now. Don't forget to parse.
September 11, 2009 - 10:09 ET by JWFI is Binky. I is confused. Despite JWF giving me a clear unequivocal case that illegal aliens are allowed to opt in to the government insurance, aka the government option, aka the public option, aka ObamaCare, I Binky is now all of teh confused.
Of those who are basically saying "You go girl, tell it like it is" want to know why you are now parsing, quibbling, and DISHONESTLY trying to get out of admitting you were wrong.
It is proved Binky. Man up! You don't have to admit it to me Binky. But the rest of the community would like to hear it. President Obama was not being truthful. The bill he endorsed in July will provide government insurance to illegals. The bill you quoted.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
PS: keep ignoring me Binky. That has worked so well for you in the past.
First of all, there isn't
September 11, 2009 - 20:16 ET by NL207First of all, there isn't one bill. There are 4, 3 versions introduced in the House originating in three different Committees The fourth bill is a Senate version managed and sponsored by Max Baucus which has as far as I know, not yet been made public. I expect it will be when the Senate Finance Committee votes on it.
Second, the CRS report contains quotations from and references to HR 3200, which is over 1000 pages in length. The conclusions it draws about the legal effects of HR3200 are based on direct, self-contained references to HR3200 itself. You can access a version of the actual bill here, if you care to wait for it to load.
Rep Wilson was not out of
September 10, 2009 - 10:25 ET by Tom PaineRep Wilson was not out of line given that this was essentially a staged Obama event. He was merely point out that the clothes had no Emporor. We are in a street fight for the survival of the Republic and it's about time we quit waiting for a referee and 14 ounce gloves.
Joe Wilson spoke the truth
September 10, 2009 - 08:58 ET by R D HelmWhat he should have then done was told John McCain to go pound sand.
Too bad he didn't.
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
Ya know....John McCain
September 10, 2009 - 09:22 ET by gailannrneeds to go home and teach his own children civility and respect. Then he can go apologize for the rest of us! What B.S.!
McCain chastized
September 10, 2009 - 09:53 ET by motherbeltMcCain chastized him.
What a surprise.
If Wilson was out of line,
September 10, 2009 - 09:00 ET by HockeyKidIf Wilson was out of line, Uhbama was even further out of line with his schoolyard smack about "gonna call you out". Just more evidence that we have a punk in the Oval Office.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Two votes for
September 10, 2009 - 09:02 ET by Scuba DudeTwo votes for inappropriate. C'mon, tell us why you think so.
We won't bite................much. : )
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
Too Honest
September 10, 2009 - 09:03 ET by CaringwhiteguyThe two most truthful words spoken during the joint session last night were "YOU LIE".
Perhaps Mr. Wilson was a bit out of line, but not in the honesty department.
No, and it's about time
September 10, 2009 - 09:04 ET by black47211No, and it's about time someone stood up for the truth in that filthy town of lies.
www.pelicanmarsh68.blogspot.com
~Speaking of truth
September 10, 2009 - 09:10 ET by choselife3xWhat are you doing using a new account when one of your old ones is still open?
That high-pitched scream you hear is the Kos plant under my heel.
I think that left a mark.
September 10, 2009 - 10:20 ET by JWFYea. I think it did
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
POTUS owes Sarah Palin an
September 10, 2009 - 09:06 ET by d1carterPOTUS owes Sarah Palin an apology for calling her a liar from the podium of a joint session of Congress. It was shameful.
Yes, Sarah deserves an apology if anyone does!
September 10, 2009 - 09:25 ET by gailannrLet's all start screaming for Obama to apologize to her. We all knew exactly who he was referring too. Get a clue!
Palin is a liar on Healtcare Reform
September 10, 2009 - 19:29 ET by 007memoPalin is a plain liar and those who believe her lies are plain stupid.
007
September 10, 2009 - 19:30 ET by FeynmanFanThanks for sharing your opinion with us this evening.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
Let me add my thanks
September 10, 2009 - 19:36 ET by ParagrouperTo FeynmanFan's and offer my condolences as well on the less than optimum outcome of your recent medical procedure. You know, many people lead a fairly normal life after a botched lobotomy.
Buck up there, champ!
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
diagram of a trollish statement
September 10, 2009 - 19:33 ET by katainkentPalin [hot-button subject] is a plain liar [unsubstantiated claim] and those [incoming ad hominem] who believe her are plain stupid.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
What it is
September 10, 2009 - 19:36 ET by FeynmanFanWhat it is, is a cry for attention.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
I bet you can't name even one, can you, 007 troll?
September 10, 2009 - 19:39 ET by R D HelmIn fact, I bet you couldn't even identify a half-truth on the part ofPalin when it comes to CommieCare from Hell.
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
I can name Two Palin Lies, rdhelm
September 11, 2009 - 21:52 ET by 007memoThese are the lies that Palin told:
Obama would "create a "death panel" that would deny care to the neediest Americans.
"Who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course," the former vice Republican presidential candidate wrote on her Facebook page, which has nearly 700,000 supporters.
"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.
→ memo
September 11, 2009 - 21:57 ET by Cool ArrowOK, when are you going to point them out to us?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
yawn
September 11, 2009 - 22:02 ET by candanceFrom the AP:
The issue is no longer viable for the six members of the Senate Finance Committee — three Republicans and three Democrats — working on a bipartisan bill, according to Grassley. In a statement, he criticized the House bill, saying there was a difference between a "simple education campaign, as some advocates want," and paying "physicians to advise patients about end-of-life care."
The provisions remain in the House bill.
So much idiocy, so little time, candance
September 11, 2009 - 22:53 ET by 007memoYou quote the idiot statements by Grassley as proof of what? That Grassley makes nonsensical statements?
What the H does this prove? In your own words, what is he actually saying? I can't wait to read your interpretation.
Provision not in house bill, candance
September 11, 2009 - 22:58 ET by 007memoAnd by the way, the provision was removed from the house bill by the Dems. I'll bet that pissed off the AMA as doctors won't be reimbursed for the counseling they have to give to their patients anyway - it was the Dems way of getting back at the AMA.
Correction: Provision
September 11, 2009 - 23:27 ET by NL207Correction: Provision removed from ONE of the three versions of the House bill.
Since the Senate bill is not public, it is impossible to know whether it is in the Senate version at this time.
In any event, differences between Senate and House versions will be subject to reconciliation. It is impossible to know at this time what will emerge from that process, should HR3200 progress to that point. Therefore, your claims that coercive end of life counseling are out of the bill are entirely premature.
Obama WILL create a 'death
September 11, 2009 - 23:16 ET by NL207Obama WILL create a 'death panel'. Or more precisely. the US Congress will at his goading.
Indeed, Obama and his ilk have already provided the undedrpinnings for this evil policy in the "Stimulaus Bill", HR 1.
"According to the bill, the secretary of Health and Human Services “shall seek to improve the use of electronic health records and health care quality over time by requiring more stringent measures of meaningful use” by health care providers.
The bill also indicates that a doctor who is not a “meaningful EHR user” in terms of using patients’ health records to provide the most cost-efficient coverage could face penalties. "
'Death Panels' are alteady a reality under Britain's NHS, a scheme widely touted by Obamatrons as exemplary socialized healthcare.
Obama has already admitted there will be government rationing of healthcare: "Obama Suggests Health Care Reform Will Mean Rationing for Some"
Somebody is most certainly lying and it's not Sarah Palin.
Conspiracy theory Rantings of a paranoid, nl207
September 13, 2009 - 00:50 ET by 007memoThese are the conspiracy theory rantings of a paranoid, nl207. Your fears of what might happen, have no basis in reality.
And monkeys might fly out of your butt. No, really. I'm afraid that's true.
Your protestations of facts don't nullify them.
September 13, 2009 - 01:19 ET by RESTLESS 1The FACTS are that socialised meidicine doesn't work. Never has, never will. Ignore the inadequacies of singel payer healthcare in other countries, the rationing of procedures and life saving drugs if you wish, but don't expect us to take your bs as Gospel. You are as big a liar as your president.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
It accomplished nothing..
September 10, 2009 - 09:07 ET by stage9You have to understand the tactics of the liberals. They are opportunistic. Anything they can use to fuel their fire they will use it. Was Wilson right? Yes and no. There is a time and place for everything. THAT was NOT the right place. Is Obama being disingenuous? YES! And was he lying? Perhaps. But none the less, calling him out like that was not appropiate for that setting.
"If God is dead, somebody is going to have to take his place. It will
be megalomania or erotomania, the drive for power or the drive for
pleasure, the clenched fist or the phallus, Hitler or Hugh Hefner."
— Malcolm Muggeridge
BS stage
September 10, 2009 - 18:45 ET by general companyObama is a lier, and it's about time someone told him so. Obama doesnt seem to have a problem with almost daily calling out those that disagree with him. Obama is a lier, and anyone with and once of integrity should tell him so often and loudly!!
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
The only problem I have
September 10, 2009 - 09:07 ET by dboThe only problem I have with Wilson is that he should have yelled "liar" 4 more times.
Yes and No...
September 10, 2009 - 09:09 ET by AtillaKahunaHe was wrong to call the President a liar during his address to the joint session, but he was not wrong that Obama is lying through his teeth.
I thought it was tacky
September 10, 2009 - 09:10 ET by shawn228It came across as rude and it should not have been done regardless if your a liberal or conservative
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
Come On!
September 10, 2009 - 09:19 ET by GeneralAlCome on Shawn! Wilson calls them as he sees them! Its about time politicians say it like it is! I'm tired of hearing thats at variance with the truth!
GeneralAl
September 10, 2009 - 09:22 ET by shawn228Of course he can say he lied, but he did it during a speech that directed at congress and televised nationwide. I believe he did much more damage than good for the Republican party.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
Obama called for this
September 10, 2009 - 10:52 ET by Indiana JoeObama called for this special Congressional address. It was his choice to be there. He used it as an opportunity to trash-talk and "call out" the opposition. Wilson merely answered that call.
I believe he did more good for the Republican party than bad, if we're to judge it by that yardstick. He dared to say the Emperor had no clothes.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
shawn, see my comment
September 10, 2009 - 09:37 ET by motherbeltshawn, see my comment above....
do you not think that the President chose this venue for exactly the purpose of the extra "authority" of an official Presidential address?
He could've gotten on TV without the joint session.
Perhaps motherbelt
September 10, 2009 - 09:50 ET by shawn228..but I heard the similar cat calls that I heard during President Bush's State of the Union address's as well last night, but I do not remember any member of congress shouting out liar in any of Bushs speeches.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
shawn, I agree with you that
September 10, 2009 - 09:56 ET by motherbeltshawn, I agree with you that in a SOTU speech it is inappropriate. This was not a SOTU.
shawn and MB
September 10, 2009 - 09:58 ET by BKeyserand Wilson apparently kept his shoes on.
What do you want Shawn?
September 10, 2009 - 10:07 ET by JWFThis President and his party leaders in Congress are not listening to the American people. What do you want us to do? We have written, phoned, faxed, protested, and talked in town halls. Nothing. They have tin ears for what the American taxpayer wants.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You put your finger right
September 10, 2009 - 11:50 ET by Indiana JoeYou put your finger right on it, JWF. Our choices have dwindled to laying down and letting our country dwindle, or being "rude."
Hmm.... I choose "rude."
You old "hide in the herd" conservative, you. But you're not alone. Candance, I believe, is "hiding" with you. ;^)
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Inappropriate? Inappropriate? Inappropriate?!!
September 10, 2009 - 09:19 ET by ShanghaiRayI'll give you all a short list of inappropriate things that have happened in the so-called House of Representatives which should be re-named House of Ill Repute since we have nothing but a bunch of whores up there.
1. Playing solitaire while a debate is going on a people are losing their homes and jobs all all the country. Not to mention snoozing and boozing.
2. The so-called members voting themselves pay raises practically every year while voting for more taxes, lower wages for our patriot soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.
3. Ramming things through Congress with not so much as a go to hell to the American people.
4. Insulting our troops and calling them torturers, baby killers and the like.
5. Buying corporate style jets for their own pleasure while telling the rest of us to buy useless and worthless carbon credits from Al Hore.
6. Voting deficit after deficit year after year with no end in sight.
7. Voting a so-called stimulus package that hasn't been unpacked yet.
8. Giving money to the vote thieves at ACORN.
9. Day after day, month after month, year after year calling on the floor of the House and Senate calling Prez Bush a liar, traitor, warmonger and SOB.
10. Ramming through nominations of racists, bigots and idiots like Sotomayor.
11. Attacking private citizens and voters on the floor of both House and Senate.
and....you're welcome to add to this list..it's just only the beginning......
these guys have forgotten who they serve. It's supposed to be our Capitol and our White House but it has turned into a den of thieves and whores. Nothing is inappropriate if it calls a spade a spade when he/she is talking b.s.
Rep. Wilson is an absolute hero in my book and I'm sure his apology is not heartfelft but given only out of a sense of survival. Anyone, who gets up on that podium and says the lies that we've been hearing for many years deserves to be shouted down and if necessary tarred and featured. Enough is enough.....the boiling point has been reached and now the proverbial crap his hitting the fan....run them all out of Washington on a rail!!!!
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"
ShanghaiRay, wow! Your
September 10, 2009 - 09:23 ET by black47211ShanghaiRay, wow! Your words ring true and pure! 2010, baby, 2010...
www.pelicanmarsh68.blogspot.com
~Gathering more info, pelican?
September 10, 2009 - 09:45 ET by choselife3x**choselife3x
April 30, 2009 - 12:33 ET by pelicanmarsh
I gladly confess to anyone reading that I was here originally under the screen-name of dborschjr68, absolutely.
Under that name, I did copious amounts of research and note-taking as
to who was who, who was liberal, who was conservative, etc. I even
posted a forum topic regarding this subject. It wasa very fruitful
venture.
Then, when I felt it was time, I relinquished my dborschjr68 name and returned as pelicanmarsh, as you can easily see.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the Kossack plant under my heel.
The time is STILL HERE
September 10, 2009 - 09:32 ET by gailannrto raise our voices high. "We are mad as hell and were not going to take it anymore!" Rep. Wilson sounds like he is one of few who has the guts to say how he feels. I don't think the setting was wrong at all. He is not being ignored now is he? Don't apologize anymore sir! You did America a tremendous favor.
STAND UP!
September 10, 2009 - 11:51 ET by MaximusBraveheartI think Libs and MSM count on us being timid so they can walk all over us and make conservatives look stupid. They use the procedures to their benefit and call us names when it is not appropriate, but if we do it, we are nasty. That is BS. BE forceful and true, this "nasty" truth will get stuff done! Speak the TRUTH or the people will come out and CRY-OUT like the stones buried around in the ground around our Congress!
Dems VOTED to EXCLUDE language that would directly take ACTIONS to forbid illegals on Fed health insurance and Fed abortions. So they have wording in there to Deflect criticism, but it was LEFT with no way to be enforced (since that was specifically excluded). THEY ARE D*m* smart as the media only shows their mirror tricks. The entire story needs to be told directly and strongly put them in their place as being deceptive = liars! M-B
Nice rant, Shanghai. I mean
September 10, 2009 - 10:58 ET by Indiana JoeNice rant, Shanghai. I mean that in a good way. Some great rants are what we need right now.
About your tag-line, I really like it. Is it original ShanghaiRay?
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
quote
September 10, 2009 - 11:44 ET by Warmantwo kegs good four kegs better looks better when i read or hear da O
Inappropriate squared
September 10, 2009 - 09:21 ET by needleI voted No
Normally it would be an inappropriate thing to do; but it is much more inappropriate for the President to lie under any circumstances, most especially this one.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
needle,
September 10, 2009 - 10:59 ET by Indiana JoeSo, you're kinda going with the "double-negative" viewpoint?
Makes sense to me.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Rep. Wilson
September 10, 2009 - 09:28 ET by urbuggenmeMr. Wilson should be appointed as a CZAR for the People... CZAR of Presidential lying!
When you constantly tell
September 10, 2009 - 09:31 ET by pitter43When you constantly tell lies and just can't tell the truth, not only should you not be surprised when someone calls you a liar, you should expect it.
other
September 10, 2009 - 09:33 ET by AgnosticThis was not an appropriate occasion for the President to call for a joint session. The President was out of line in his accusations about his ideological opponents. This was not the proper venue to name the lie that is Socialist Medicine in such a manner - without debate because such is the venue when the President speaks to Congress.
I vote 'other' because when looking at a situation that shouldn't have existed and an event that was provoked by inappropriate arguments it is difficult to say that Wilson was wrong but as an American I still have a problem with anyone trying to embarass the office of the President of the US and especially so in the home of the legislative body that represents, usually, the people of this great nation.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
Well-reasoned, Agnostic
September 10, 2009 - 11:04 ET by Indiana JoeI voted "no" because I'm just sick and tired of all the lies going unanswered. And if our Congress truly represents us, well, someone had to answer Obama's "call out."
But you make a good, reasonable case.
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
In the last 6
September 10, 2009 - 16:32 ET by MikeBIn the last 6 administrations, only two people have embarrassed the office of the President of the US: William Jefferson Clinton, and Barak Hussein Obama. Carter was a lousy President, but he did not dishonor the Office. Clinton was a lousy President, a serial rapist/sexual predator, a perjurer, he also suborned perjury and obstructed justice. W was at best a mediocre President, who rose to the challenge of a hostile attack against American soil. Unfortunately, he did nothing to retaliate against, or deter further hostile attacks against American soil by the nation to our south. Obamandias is proving to be a disaster as a President on all fronts, is a proven serial liar, is a demonstrated opportunist with no loyalty to the people who helped him get where he is (Rev. Wright, Van Jones, his own grandmother, and the myriad others he has thrown under his over-sized bus).
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
I wish he hadn't
September 10, 2009 - 09:36 ET by StarAZIt just gives the other side something to distract with. Even true things do not always need to be said.
Star, have you ever seen
September 10, 2009 - 09:39 ET by motherbeltStar, have you ever seen "Question Time" in the House of Commons? They seem to survive it without people having the vapors!
~Star
September 10, 2009 - 09:46 ET by choselife3xThey won't want to use it, it might make people wonder if it was true and check for themselves!
I see stories about that Wilson guy
September 10, 2009 - 09:52 ET by StarAZI see stories already on Wilson--they don't involve looking into whether HE was lying about the lying--just that he shouted out.
And what ammunitoin did he
September 11, 2009 - 23:18 ET by NL207And what ammunitoin did he give the other side?
None they have not already spent, I say.
I think the entire Republican delegation should have stood up with him and shouted this lying piece of crap, Obama, down, just like the leftist thugs that dominate college campuses across America do when Conservative speakers try to speak. They would have struck a blow for Liberty. Instead, they chose careful orthodoxy.
I think the mood of the mainstream public has reached critical juncture. The Independents have deserted Obama. The Conservatives loathe and detest the man. All he has left are his koolaid drinkers, and when the tax increases already on the books hit next year, I think many of them will melt away. In particular, those who believed his lie that only those earning $250,000 per year or more would be taxed.
The MSM has no idea how prophetic this new slogan they've coined will be: "the shout heard 'round the world". Reflect for a moment what events that paraphrase refers to.
Speakling of those events, it would do you good to travel to Lexington Green and contemplate what began there. While you are there, visit the Old North Bridge at Concord and walk back down route 2A back to Lexington. http://www.britishbattles.com/concord-lexington.htm
Talk about the setting?
September 10, 2009 - 09:38 ET by mattmTalk about the setting? So what? When did George Bush hold a "joint session" TV show to promote a domestic policy agenda?
He is NOT the "chief legislative officer" he is the "chief executive officer." Mr. Hussein was illegitimately using the power of his office to promote a partisan agenda item.
He overstepped his bounds, so screw the setting. He is a liar, he is being handled by liars and he is being promoted by the liars in the media. Wilson is RIGHT ON!
Mr. Hussein was illegitimately using the power of his office...
September 10, 2009 - 09:56 ET by vrwc13Mr. Hussein was illegitimately using the power of his office to promote a partisan agenda item.
...and fair to say it's not yet clear it is his office in the first place. Of course it depends upon what the meaining of is is!
He is a liar, he is being handled by liars and he is being promoted by the liars in the media.
...apparently he may have lied to get into office, he apparently continues to lie...should we be surprised?
v
Wilson is RIGHT ON!
By the way
September 10, 2009 - 09:38 ET by StarAZNPR had some "real people" (what the pres calls "ordinary people") on--and they said he cleared everything up--no death panels, no increased costs, we're good to go. Eyeroll.
Oh, everything is cleared up now, according to CNN today
September 10, 2009 - 09:46 ET by SickofLibsAn astounding 67% now support Obamacare.
Of course AP's pre-speech poll of yesterday showed 53% strong disapproval, so I guess it was a big grand slam!
~~~SoL
September 10, 2009 - 10:00 ET by BKeyserDid you see their sampling for this poll? 45% Dem, 18% GOP. You get better odds in Vegas.
BK- yes, I saw that
September 10, 2009 - 10:08 ET by SickofLibsAnd they actually do it with a straight face.
Big surprise,
September 10, 2009 - 09:58 ET by motherbeltBig surprise, Star.....LOL
They accepted no increased costs?
What were these; third graders?
Well....
September 10, 2009 - 10:08 ET by StarAZThey could have been of the older persuasion, though I hate to say that because I am, too.
And...
September 10, 2009 - 10:09 ET by StarAZIt was NPR...
I'm part of that group, too
September 10, 2009 - 10:49 ET by Chaitealoverand I know that "older persuasion" isn't the same as "uninformed" or "disinterested."
Chai
“When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson
Aww Star~~
September 10, 2009 - 11:30 ET by BKeyserwho persuaded you to be that? [quietly persuading] Be young Star, be young!
After being involved in a
September 10, 2009 - 09:47 ET by BKeyserAfter being involved in a spirited debate about this last night, here at NB, I considered rethinking my position. After all, this was the Floor of the House. Healthcare does need some reform. He did win. Maybe we should give the man a chance to sell his plan. It's not like he's had very long to tell us about the details of the plan. Or get in front of the American people to discuss the plan. And it's not like he's been spreading false information about what he intends to do, or why he intends to do it. And finally, he hasn't gotten a great deal of favorable coverage on this- so- attacking him that way may have been out of line.
Then I woke up. I voted "No."
Thanks for saving me from
September 10, 2009 - 09:59 ET by motherbeltThanks for saving me from having to slap you to wake you up! LOL
lol MB
September 10, 2009 - 10:00 ET by BKeyserlol MB
Geez, BKeyser,
September 10, 2009 - 11:09 ET by Indiana JoeI half-way had a point-by-point "WTF?" style rebuttal composed in my mind (tiny place that it is) before you "woke up."
I was afraid you'd stumbled across some Kool-Aid.
;^D
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
Sorry Joe, my inner Obama
September 10, 2009 - 11:31 ET by BKeyserSorry Joe, my inner Obama came out |;-b
I think I will go to Rep.
September 10, 2009 - 09:55 ET by Scuba DudeI think I will go to Rep. Wilson's website and leave him an "Atta Boy" message. We all should to show him he had nothing to apologize for. (Those that voted NO of course.) : )
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
~Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
September 10, 2009 - 09:58 ET by choselife3xI just did....and got this:
Due to exceptionally high traffic, this site is temporarily unavailable.
Please come back shortly.
Thanks for the heads up
September 10, 2009 - 10:12 ET by Scuba DudeThanks for the heads up Chose. I will try through out the day.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
chose,
September 10, 2009 - 11:11 ET by Indiana JoeI wonder if that "traffic" is "attaboys" or "how-dare-yous?"
Hmm....
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
~I'd bet
September 10, 2009 - 11:17 ET by choselife3xLots of both. Hahaha..think I'll have to go to Kos and watch them melt down!
Had I Been There...
September 10, 2009 - 09:56 ET by EdCoyneHad I been in Rep. Wilson's shoes, I'd have done the same thing...only I would have been a little more theatrical.
"Excuse me, Mr. President. When are you going to stop lying to the American people?!"
Ed Coyne
www.PoliCalc.com
Dissent is American
September 10, 2009 - 10:10 ET by bradbenj5952I was saddened to hear that Mr. Wilson apologized for his act of defiance, an act that was once uniquely American. Let no one doubt that his outburst is only the beginning. We Americans who still believe in our Constitution are fed up with the Fed. The federal government has grown far beyond the limitations imposed by our Constitution and now this current crop of politicians (for that is all they are) in Congress and the White House, who understand not our foundations and our most sacred institutions, are trying to undo America and hammer home the final nails in her coffin. Would there were more Wilsons in Congress who would defy the destroyers and not apologize.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
It is called escalating anger.
September 10, 2009 - 09:59 ET by JWFI have emailed my congressman. I have called my congressman. I have faxed my congressman. I have gone to tea parties. I have gone to town halls.
So far I have been mocked, belittled, ignored, scoffed at, ridiculed, and told to shut up. And that is just the President and his cronies in Congress. Let's talk about the MSM.
People are angry that we are being lied to and there keeps coming the next step, the next step, the next step.
Even the minority party in Congress is getting torqued. I say right on.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Escalating Propaganda, Escalates Anger, JWF
September 10, 2009 - 21:05 ET by 007memoYou are being lied to JWF, cause the truth wouldn't get you too angry at all. Next they're going to claim that Obama said "your mother wears army boots", then you'll really throw down the gauntlet! It doesn't take much to raise the rabble.
Whatever bigot. Tell it to someone who cares about your hatred.
September 10, 2009 - 22:49 ET by JWFCrawl back to your liberal bigot cave. You have not risen to the level of being capable of interacting with me.
I was talking to your sister the other day and she confirmed, "yep, he is a bigot, always has been. He thinks the black man is incapable of helping himself and must be given huge doses of help from the government to lift him out of poverty. He thinks the white man is incapable of refraining from letting the black man rise and must be restrained by the government. Oh, and he picks his nose and eats his boogers."
I was talking to your mother and she confirmed as well, you are a bigot. "Yep, he can't openly proclaim his bigotry in the pc environment. So he takes refuge in the last acceptable area of bigotry, liberals hatred for anything outside their ideology. And yea, I have tried to get him to stop eating his boogers but apparently they are very tasty to him."
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Don't worry, 000moron, when it really hits the fan...
September 10, 2009 - 23:03 ET by R D Helm...and believe me when I tell you, it's about to in a really big way, many of you lefties are going to positively soil your panties when the "rabble" stands up and reasserts the rights granted to us by God, and upheld by the Constitution of the United States.
Damn, are you government-schooled morons ever going to be in for a rude surprise.
:-)
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
Go back to your cave, rdhelm
September 11, 2009 - 23:09 ET by 007memoDream on, rd.
"rights granted by God" my ____. You 23 percenters (Bush's approval rating when he left office) just witnessed the worst eight years in recent American history, and instead determined Bush was Grrrreeeaaaaat!
And you think that others see what you see about Obama. ROFLMAO.
Good grief, by what comparison
September 11, 2009 - 23:29 ET by general companyYou 23 percenters (Bush's approval rating when he left office) just witnessed the worst eight years in recent American history,
Remind me again of what the Dems congress was/is?
By Carters, or Clintons? What do you think Obama's number will be around 12' ? You realy should get a grip.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
How exactly were the last
September 11, 2009 - 23:43 ET by NL207How exactly were the last eight years so bad?
Contrast and compare them to 1973 - 1982, for example, during which the inept and overrated Jimmy Carter together with a stumblebum liberal Democratic Congress succeeded in creating unemployment and inflation in the double digits at the same time. Many economists had thought this was impossible prior to Carter's accomplishhment. This stellar presidency also saw the inception of the curse that led directly to our recent economic downturn: the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
This Marxist clown Obama has already spent more money than the government can safely print in his first 8 months in office. He has siezed and nationalized several major corporations. He has subverted long standing rule of law. He has used his office to threaten private citizens and corporations. He has made a mockery out of our foreign policy. He has supported thugs and dictators in the Middle East and in Latin America. Carter is starting to look good!
Carter is starting to look
September 11, 2009 - 23:46 ET by bigtimerCarter is starting to look good!
Spooky isn't it NL?
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Finally
September 10, 2009 - 10:01 ET by BlurbFrankly it was nice to see a republican finally grow a pair. Maybe next time they can tell him to can it once he hits 15 minutes. I just can't take that much Obama at one time.
Both....
September 10, 2009 - 10:01 ET by wizardjrWhile I don't think that was the right place to do it, the Dims did as bad or worse to President Bush. What goes around comes around.
Second, my other thought is that now it is headline news and if the Republicans get off their butts they can use this to club the President over the head with his lies and distortions. The line to take it easy - apoligize for the poor manners in doing it during a Presidential address to both houses but adamantly back up the idea and then spiel off one or two lies and proofs. Keep it simple. No long winded speaches, just one or two hard hitting points each time.
it's a natural progression
September 10, 2009 - 10:02 ET by RayRayDemocrats and their college-boy supporters have been lowering standards of political discourse for many years. Obama even calls on Huffington Post "journalists" at news conferences.
They don't like it when they get it back at them, though.
Besides, Obama is an inveterate liar.
at least he didn't throw a shoe
September 10, 2009 - 10:02 ET by candanceLiberal hypocrisy on parade again.
I consider this
September 10, 2009 - 10:04 ET by nwahsYou had a whole section demonstrating their disapproval by sitting on their hands. All but 1 had the discipline to avoid catcalls. So is he some leader or someone without discipline?
Then he apologized, and I think that means its a discipline problem.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
if only he had thrown a shoe
September 10, 2009 - 10:05 ET by candanceThen he would be a hero to the left.
If he'd have thrown a shoe
September 10, 2009 - 10:10 ET by nwahsHe'd have replaced Palin as the voice of God among the dittohead and headless.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
so...
September 10, 2009 - 10:11 ET by candanceis this your official declaration that you're done lying about being a conservative?
No, this would be my
September 10, 2009 - 10:21 ET by nwahsNo, this would be my declaration that you have confused obnoxious, anti-social behavior with conservatism. But you're not the first to try to hide in a herd. During the hippy generation, a lot of misfits hid in a herd.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
hurry up
September 10, 2009 - 10:25 ET by candanceand get to the business of criticizing Ann Coulter so we will all know you're not a conservative.
You're a thug, not a
September 10, 2009 - 10:34 ET by nwahsYou're a thug, not a conservative. There's a difference, but cutting your political eye teeth on Limbaugh, you wouldn't know that.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
~Wait a minute
September 10, 2009 - 10:36 ET by choselife3xDid you just call candance a thug?!
it's hilarious, chose
September 10, 2009 - 10:39 ET by candanceConsidering I spent the first 18 years of my life being told "Ronald Reagan is the devil," I know a thing or two about political thuggery.
nwahs learned a new word
September 10, 2009 - 10:37 ET by candanceWhy don't you just go for broke and call me a racist teabagger. I know you really want to.
As you your point about cutting my political teeth, I don't even listen to Rush that much and he's hardly a role model. In fact I find him too soft on Republican corruption. You know precisely this much >.< about my political upbringing.
Funny, I don't remember
September 10, 2009 - 10:48 ET by nwahsFunny, I don't remember Reagan defending obnoxious, anti-social behavior.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
is that the best comeback you have?
September 10, 2009 - 10:51 ET by candanceAnd I'm still waiting for your proof that Wilson is a racist. Talk about defending obnoxious behavior.
~Ah
September 10, 2009 - 11:11 ET by choselife3xObnoxious, anti-social 'behavior'. Funny.
~Seriously?
September 10, 2009 - 10:49 ET by choselife3xThat is so far out of line you should be ashamed. There are plenty of people on this sight that merit such an epithet, but candance is not one of them. Not by a looooooooonnnnnnng shot.
you'll have to excuse him
September 10, 2009 - 11:01 ET by candanceRight now he's furiously Googling Joe Wilson, hoping some lefty blog has some dirt to bail him out on his claim that Wilson is racist.
~The Kossacks, Huffers, and DUmmies
September 10, 2009 - 11:14 ET by choselife3xWill be stroking out over this. That alone was worth it! Hahahaha!
is it time to start filing
September 10, 2009 - 12:49 ET by katainkentsedition charges yet?
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Kat, good luck
September 10, 2009 - 23:09 ET by RESTLESS 1He still hasn't gotten back to me on that. I'm officially calling it a win.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
So then, the lie
September 10, 2009 - 12:49 ET by ckc1227So then, the lie continues.
Wazza matter backwards Shawn?
September 10, 2009 - 10:25 ET by JWFSore because you been outlied by the big man? Or maybe you are mad because as a liar, the big man is your hero. And the lying big hero of yours got outed as a liar, just like you have here time and again.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You should be on
September 10, 2009 - 10:32 ET by nwahsYou should be on psychotropic drugs.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
Truth hurts like a getting struck by a mack truck, huh?
September 10, 2009 - 10:43 ET by JWFGetting called out in public when you are lying hurts. It is the worst pain a liar can feel.
Now President Obama understands your pain.
Whatever you say crazy
September 10, 2009 - 10:50 ET by nwahsWhatever you say crazy person, just follow the little swirls with your finger and ignore the bad voices.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
Yea. I is crazy. Yea. It is me. Yea. me. crazy. Yea. Yea.
September 10, 2009 - 10:56 ET by JWFA known liar thinks it is perfectly acceptable to post on a forum about someone calling another known liar a liar, right liar?
I'm Torn
September 10, 2009 - 10:02 ET by RINOSafariIn general, the office of President of the United States of America should be treated with respect, even when it's not "our guy" in there.
However, what if you truly believe the president is/was lying? Obviously, Wilson did, and I do too. So, I'm torn. When I saw it, I said, "Yeah!", but I don't know if I can, in good conscience, say that it was proper. At the same time, I'm not ready to condemn Wilson either because the president has no right to lie to the people under any circumstance. If Wilson had made the accusation in the mainstream liberal media, it probably would have never even been heard by anyone, so he made sure his accusation would be known.
---------------------
Hunting down the RINOs at: http://www.rinosafari.com
Rudeness Called For
September 10, 2009 - 10:06 ET by slickwillie2001Of course it was rude, but it's also pretty damn rude to lie to people, in their face, week after week and just expect them to suck it up. Sometimes rudeness is called for. We need more brave citizens to challenge this 'President' in public like this.
Why an address to Congress? Because his ticket to the networks via primetime press conferences has just about run out. He simply needed a new way to deliver a speech and get attention. He's like a two-year old who suddenly discovers a new way to get attention after the old ways stop working.
We need to fight back. Republicans depend too much...
September 10, 2009 - 10:24 ET by jawebster1on talk radio to do what they need to do and good for Joe Wilson for finally speaking "truth to power". The Republican response after the speech was weak as usual, but Wilson is one Republican who spoke for me because his response was was short, sweet and true! Now is the time for other Republicans to take their gloves off! Jim Webster
That was not the forum for
September 10, 2009 - 10:07 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat was not the forum for an outburst like that.
Just remember how p-ed off you were when Bush was shouted at in a similiar manner. This shrubber would like to consider himself better than those Hufftards and KOStards who condoned it. We are better than that.
Visit The Daily Wave
We ARE better than that. When we call the President...
September 10, 2009 - 10:13 ET by jawebster1a liar, we are telling the truth. When they said Bush lied and people died, they were the liars. See the difference? Jim Webster
Exactly!
September 10, 2009 - 12:01 ET by MaximusBraveheartWe need to yell out the truth and not back down! Truth does matter!
Hold the media accountable and turn the table by presenting all the facts. McCain did NOT do this!
M-B
Roger, Pres. Bush did not
September 10, 2009 - 10:16 ET by Scuba DudeRoger, Pres. Bush did not continue to say lie after lie and single out people that disagree with him and call them liars in a speech to Congress. And this was not a State of the Union address. The LOTUS called this joint session. This was his Town Hall. He got what he deserved.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
~Normally, I absolutely agree
September 10, 2009 - 10:17 ET by choselife3xIn this case, I'd say it was covered by "Desperate times call for desperate measures."
Disagree
September 10, 2009 - 10:23 ET by bradbenj5952Sorry to disagree Roger, but with the liberal's near monopoly on what most people in this country hear for news, someone had to stand up and shout the truth from the roof tops. These people are trying to dismantle America. Behold the patience of our Founding Fathers and the oft times they made redress of their grievances to the Crown and just as many times were ignored. Constitution loving Americans have been quietly trying to defend America from the enemy within and little by little she's slipping away. Beware the wrath of the patient man!
That was not the place that
September 10, 2009 - 11:00 ET by ElyasThat was not the place that it should have been done. I agree that Wilson should have been able to hold his temper and not yell, "Liar!".
Now I do understand his frustation, because the premise of the speech was "my opponents are liars and here is the truth".
I'm with the shubber on this one
September 10, 2009 - 12:34 ET by Airforce_5_OYou just lower yourself to the standards of the liberals when you do this, even if he is right about the lie. That is what the response is for. that gets attention not shouting at the President during his speech.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
I'm okay with people
September 10, 2009 - 12:47 ET by ckc1227I'm okay with people thinking poorly of me if it helps check this communist's crusade to destroy everything about America that has made it the greatest country ever.
Why do Republicans always apologize? You never hear...
September 10, 2009 - 10:09 ET by jawebster1Democrats apologizing. Wilson should have said, "I'm sorry to those who were offended by my outburst, but to the great majority of you who believe Obama was indeed lying, I'm not sorry". Jim Webster
"Lies" Joe Wilson 2009 - Patrick Henry 1775
September 10, 2009 - 10:11 ET by vrwc13Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! - Patrick Henry 1775
Joe Wilson has asked for the truth, Patrick Henry asked for liberty. I don't believe the two are very different.
Thanks for standing up Joe...
v
Give me Truth or give me death - Joe Patrick Wilson Henry 1775/2009
No.
September 10, 2009 - 10:15 ET by KJ_sezIt was completely appropriate, but untimely - Wilson should have said it much earlier in Obamination's remarks. Like three seconds after he started speaking.
Rep. Wilson, retract your apology!
September 10, 2009 - 10:19 ET by jessieHWilson was saying what I was saying, to my TV.
let's get this straight
September 10, 2009 - 10:21 ET by candanceIf you misrepresent what’s in the plan, we will call you out.
Obama wasn't booed or heckled at the start of his speech. 99% of the time Republicans were polite. Then Obama openly declared that it was time to call out liars. He got a standing ovation for calling Sarah Palin a liar. He threatened to use the bully pulpit against anyone who criticized 3200. He himself used the word "lie" in his speech multiple times.
I do not recall Bush ever getting up before a bunch of Democrats and promising to target them personally for telling lies about Iraq.
Obama set the tone. Obama dropped the L bomb. If that's the kind of post-partisan world he wants, then we should follow his example.
Jer...come here for a minute.
September 10, 2009 - 11:03 ET by KarmaCandance is not a lawyer, so is this defense of the "indefensible" thrown out of your court along with the mitigating circumstances she outlines?
don't expect much, karma
September 10, 2009 - 11:06 ET by candanceWe're still waiting for a single lefty to make an appearance on AP's fact check thread.
let's get this straight - Candance
September 10, 2009 - 12:11 ET by MaximusBraveheartThat was GREAT! We should not take this BS, nor from the media. They can say "death panels" are not in the bill... but it provides for their inevitable formation via official guidelines. It may take 10 years but it IS in there! Look at the UK! SO WHO is being truthful? The white wash saying they are not in there, or the people showing faithfully what the eventual result of the bill will bring about? Iwould like the whole picture and truth the MSM choose to IGNORE! Then call Palin a liar! What liars! Which one is showing who really cares about THE PEOPLE and the truth?
M-B
Decorem-schmorem...
September 10, 2009 - 10:24 ET by JPR1Who's rules were to be followed anyway?
The liberal/progressive/socialist rule that says when a liberal/progressive/socialist is speaking you will sit quietly with your hands folded calmly on your lap and accept that your ideas are insignificant.
Obama is on the ropes, this is no time to let up.
Speaking truth to power
September 10, 2009 - 10:34 ET by Ruths husband BenSpeaking truth to power used to be a liberal virtue. What Changed?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho
What a load of
September 10, 2009 - 10:39 ET by pwozWhat a load of BS?
Wasn't it 0bama that encouraged supporters to "get in the faces" of the opposition? What better way than for this man to call out 0's LIES!
No . .
September 10, 2009 - 10:56 ET by 1611LilacLadyIt's about time someone had the backbone to tell the truth.
Unfortunately, then the backbone disappeared when the Representative apologized. '
Is this what we've come to in Congress? Apologize for telling the truth?
Isaiah 5:20a Woe unto them who call evil good, and good evil. . . KJV
My vote for the top 3 'Joe Wilson' defense...
September 10, 2009 - 11:22 ET by vrwc13Joe Wilson said what
September 10, 2009 - 10:07 ET by d1carter Joe Wilson said what everybody knows.
Obama called for this
September 10, 2009 - 11:52 ET by Indiana Joe Obama called for this special Congressional address. It was his choice to be there. He used it as an opportunity to trash-talk and "call out" the opposition. Wilson merely answered that call.
...added:
“If you misrepresent what’s in the plan, we will call you out.”
September 10, 2009 - 12:12 ET by candance
It's always okay for Obama to play tough with us, but then he acts coy when given a taste of his own medicine.
...Joe just called you out, how's it feel!
v
- obama lied, the dems cried
I humbly thank you for the
September 10, 2009 - 13:17 ET by Indiana JoeI humbly thank you for the props, v.
Just FYI, the link to the Obama "call you out" quote doesn't seem to work. It's "null."
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
What thin skins we have...
September 10, 2009 - 11:00 ET by jdripperHave any of you ever watched the House Of Parliament in the UK? Good lord these little pansies over here would never survive a minute in that setting. Barack Obama would be in a corner sucking his thumb if he had to encounter.
Cowboy up and a be a man especially Emmanuel.
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
Well I'm going to catch heck for this but
September 10, 2009 - 11:06 ET by Airforce_5_OWilson was wrong to do it there. Why lower yourself to the Dem level (the booing of Bush by Dems during his SOU address). Go outside and do it in front of reporters and answer questions. Put it in the Republician response but not in that setting.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
it's cool, AF
September 10, 2009 - 11:08 ET by candanceYou have a right to your opinion. And I do agree about the reporter comment afterward. It means nothing if you apologize afterward and don't have the guts to say it into a microphone.
Right now every liberal in this country should write Wilson a thank you letter. He gave them something to talk about instead of admitting that Obama lied in the speech.
I agree CD
September 10, 2009 - 11:19 ET by Airforce_5_OI agree with Wilson in principle but not the place and not the time to do it. If the Dems needed something to distract the public from whats going on in Congress, they just got it.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
Agreed. We had quite a...
September 10, 2009 - 13:44 ET by PrairieSkyprolonged discussion and debate about this here at NB last night after the speech, and I espoused the same position that you have here today. I agree with the sentiment behind the words, but not the place.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
...
September 10, 2009 - 11:18 ET by EugeniaNot from me. You're right. Emotional outbursts, especially in this setting, are what children (read the Democrats) do. He can be vociferous and adamant about the president's lying afterward. You can have townhall meetings and call him such. You can even do it in the House during debate of the bill -- in fact you should! NOT during an adress to Congress.
Ditto, Candace. His apology makes him a sniffling child now. He shouldn't have apologized. Now the news is his calling out "lie" rather than the fact that Obama DID lie.
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
-- GK Chesterton
~The thing is..
September 10, 2009 - 11:20 ET by choselife3xVociferous and adamant about the lying, afterwards, would not have gotten national press.
Bingo.
September 10, 2009 - 13:20 ET by Indiana Joe"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
It wasn't smart....
September 10, 2009 - 11:18 ET by taocpaIt wasn't the smartest thing he could have done. It could rally the Democrats.
I agree the bill has no teeth when it comes to determining whether someone is here illegally and this is terrible. These illegals use our roads, schools, and parks yet pay no taxes.
Wilson was correct that Obama wasn't truthful. I just don't think it helped.
When will the madness end? Hopefully, January 20, 2013.
Tom
JOE SPEAKS to cnn...
September 10, 2009 - 11:46 ET by vrwc13...here (it's a follow-up video, can't seem to isolate it, but it's called:
Heckler was told to apologize 2:07
Republican Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina speaks out after shouting "you lie" during President Obama's speech.)
v
Joe Wilson said what everybody knows. d1carter
"Speak Truth to Power"
September 10, 2009 - 11:39 ET by RayRaylibs have been saying that for many years, but they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot
Oh boy...
September 10, 2009 - 11:51 ET by ShanghaiRayI just don't know what to say anymore....most of the guys/gals on here are "right-on" with their opinions and support of Smokin Joe Wilson but the rest of you so-called conservatives are clueless. Do you not realize we are in the midst of a war? Not the war on terror (that included) but a war between the America our Founding Fathers hoped, fought and died for and a bunch of vile communists, socialists and tyrant wannabes. In a war, we don't need to play the enemy's game one way or the other....we just need to win the war at all costs. Yes, at all costs. The only true way to win a war is to annilhate the enemy and totally destroy their morale and effectiveness to wage war. To make the war so horrible for them they can't take it any longer and surrender or perish. Sorry, if this sounds extreme but it is truly what I believe. We bombed the hell out of the Germans and completely destroyed two cities in Japan to win a war at all costs, have we already forgotten the lessons we learned back then? We didn't start it but we sure the hell will finish it.
You still don't agree? Then, keep your ideals about playing nice-nice and see how far that get's you in the bread line or when your vote no longer counts due to all the fraudsters stealing it. If someone had the guts to put a bullet into Hitler's head at the beginning of his bullshit then the world would have suffered much less....but hell no..we always wait until it's too late to do anything and play footsie with these idiots and meglomanicas at ultimatley unbearable costs. Decorum to hell....making us feel guilty about our true feelings and the way we express them is just another way of trying to control the outcome...the same as political correctness and a myriad of other ploys our enemies use to get us to shut up, sit down and take it up the rear.
The two-party system no longer works in America, it's through it's finished, it's kaput.
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW" originally coined by ShanghaiRay on NB.
Wow--bellicose
September 10, 2009 - 11:53 ET by StarAZPicking battles is not playing nice-nice. We have to be smarter than the "other side."
Don't make me laugh.
September 10, 2009 - 12:11 ET by ShanghaiRayWhich battle would that be?
Winning the 2008 Election with a descent candidate?
Calling Obama out for his support of tyrants and terrorists of the world?
Letting Obama ride rough-shod over the nation with his Tsars?
Letting Obama ram through a racist on the Supreme Court?
Obama taking over the national census?
Obama and the democrats calling the nation liars?
Which battle? When? Where? How? .....yeah, that's what I thought. Perhaps you need to add another "Z" to the end of your name StarAZ.
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"
...
September 10, 2009 - 12:45 ET by EugeniaNo one's talking about "playing nice-nice" just smart. Will anyone be dissecting Obama's lies in his speech or just about Wilson's outburst? If you make Obama out to be a victim -- and that's how the media that MOST Americans watch will lay it out; it's how he got elected -- then how does that help the conservative cause? You call him a liar on a platform ready with facts -- the same one where Repubs call Dems "their colleagues across the aisle" -- and then list out his lies. And don't apologize for it afterward, which was Wilson's biggest mistake. Either you mean what you say or you don't. His apology further hurt the cause. If you're going to have an outburst, you damn well better back it up with a spine and facts.
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
-- GK Chesterton
playing smart?
September 10, 2009 - 14:02 ET by RayRaydid you happen to notice who won the last presidential election? here's a hint, it was the side with all the loud protestors, that used race to its advantage, that never played fair, and on and on.
meanwhile, the Republicans had McCain, who mostly wanted to be thought of as a good sport. The ineffectual boob even claimed after the elections that the press was 'fair'.Maybe the idiot will go on SNL again and tell then they were evenhanded, too.
let the Dems get back what they've been dishing out for decades. Nice boobs finish last. Hehe, well you know what I mean...
I channel your rage, but
September 10, 2009 - 14:25 ET by Ruths husband BenI channel your rage, but please turn off the bold italics. it makes my monitor puke.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho
Joe Wilson was right in his
September 10, 2009 - 11:42 ET by GregEJoe Wilson was right in his opinion, but wrong in yelling it out in that venue. I don't want Democrats, Republicans, liberals, or conservatives yelling out individually in such a setting.
Yes, But
September 10, 2009 - 11:48 ET by sergeant stogieThe message was very much correct. The timing and location for delivering said message was not appropriate, however, if only because it gives the neo-progs more to bitch and moan about, and to try to represent themselves as being above the fray. Then BHO wasn't man enough to accept the apology on the phone himself, he had to have his right-hand henchman do it.
Having the self discipline
September 10, 2009 - 12:06 ET by nwahsHaving the self discipline to control one's self and not make catcalls during a joint session of Congress used to be normal behavior,not "above the fray." People are so dumbed down by reality TV drama, they beat their chest like orangutans at each and every childish demonstration aimed at the left. Thats not conservatism. That's obnoxious. Wilson showed all of the self discipline as a drunk patron in a strip club.
But he apologized. People here actually defend it and want others to mimic it!
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
Can't have liars being called out in public now can we?
September 10, 2009 - 12:10 ET by JWFNo. Can't have that, huh?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=nwahs+liar+site%3Anewsbusters.org&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
when will nwahs apologize
September 10, 2009 - 12:26 ET by candancefor calling Wilson a racist? DKos failed to come through with a smoking gun, huh?
Candance tripping the light fantastic?
September 10, 2009 - 13:18 ET by nwahsYou tripping? I never called Wison a racist.
You're referring to this post, I guess. That's not calling Wilson a racist, thats saying in spite of what Democrats do, I'm not going to defend the dregs of the GOP as Democrats defend their wacko left.
I said Wilson's behavior was obnoxious and lacked self-discipline, not racist. But this is just a take off of the pretending you're confused shtick that some other poster used in the Obama school speech thread. There a poster didn't comprehend draconian means strict or authoritarian. When I mentioned using draconian methods on children the poster , oh so confused, suggested it meant advocating child abuse.
Again, being slow of the mark is not conservative. Its just slow of the mark.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
~Obama's whole speech was obnoxious
September 10, 2009 - 13:22 ET by choselife3xAnd as for His self-discipline...
well now I'm curious
September 10, 2009 - 13:35 ET by katainkentwho were you talking about?
specifically this : "anti-social racists/Dixiecrats posing as conservatives"
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
oh, I get it
September 10, 2009 - 14:29 ET by candanceIn the middle of a thread where you repeatedly singled out Wilson for obnoxious behavior, we're supposed to believe that you brought up a random nonsequitor about some other Republican from south of the Mason-Dixon.
We're not stupid. We know the left is already pushing the point that Wilson is racist.
Reveal the target of your racism charge or admit you were talking about Wilson.
You said I called Wilson a
September 10, 2009 - 15:17 ET by nwahsYou said I called Wilson a racist. Thats just flat out lie, and thats why you couldn't quote me calling Wilson a racist.
Again, lying isn't conservatism. It's just lying.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
tell us who the racist is
September 10, 2009 - 15:20 ET by candancewe're waiting.
Same as Obama/Palin.
September 10, 2009 - 15:30 ET by Karmanwahs didn't actually mention Mr. Wilson by name, did he jer.
Don't wait too long candance.
Healthcare...Food...Education...Housing... - What sprouted as free for some is maturing into a free-for-all.
I don't have list
September 10, 2009 - 15:40 ET by nwahsIf I had a list I'd have named them. But "The magic negro" tune appealed to them as a comedic representation of an African-American and not as satire about a newspaper article. They probably like using the Jefferson's theme song as a backdrop of an appointed African-American. Yea, sly bigotry would appeal to them. Bill Cunningham's shtick about Barrack HUSSEIN Obama probably appealed to them, as well as Glenn Beck's video montage of black people dressed in military fatigues used to stress the danger American are in from socialists.
I don't have a list of racists in the GOP, but I've seen racist antics coming from people who leech off the GOP. I can give you a list of people who have used racist antics. I don't know if they're racist or just playing to the crowd. But you probably know them already. I criticize them on a regular basis.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
People who use racist
September 10, 2009 - 15:43 ET by Scuba DudePeople who use racist antics like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Rev Wright? The Dems and libtards are the most racist groups of folks around right now.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
They are definitely among
September 10, 2009 - 16:11 ET by nwahsThey are definitely among them. But there are racists on the right as well. It would be ridiculous to believe only the the left has racists and wackos. If a person on the right can't name 5 right wing wackos off the top of their head, they are indeed blinded by party (i.e., a sheep).
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
and there it is
September 10, 2009 - 15:47 ET by candanceracist Dixieland Republicans = invisible sprites who delight in satire songs and scary pictures of black people. He can't pinpoint them, you see, but they are there nonetheless. Oh, and Beck and Limbaugh are there public enablers.
That's an awful lot of wiggling to call Glenn Beck a racist.
And you just decided to randomly mention them on a thread about a Republican from Dixie because that's how you roll.
If I knew Beck was a racist I'd call him one
September 10, 2009 - 16:01 ET by nwahsHe's used racist antics and I posted that when he ran the video montage on his show. I've said a dozen time Rush Limbaugh uses sly bigotry as part of his show, from his "Jefferson's" theme song to his Ebonics translations. This isn't new.
This type of humor appeals more on a racist level than a satire level. You are going to sit here and claim that after 10 Ebonics translations, people are sill laughing at the absurdity? I think at that point they're laughing at the funny way that black people talk.
Invisible sprites. No they're not invisible as they account for the success of this type of bigotry.
But all that is beside the point. You said I called Wilson a racist. That was a lie. Here's the difference between you and I. When I falsely accused Seton Motley of retouching a photo, I apologized.
When you falsely accuse me of calling Wilson a racist, you change the subject.
Another teachable moment. That's not conservatism, that's cowardice.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
not so much
September 10, 2009 - 16:08 ET by candanceYou pinpointed a Republican from Dixie as being a racist, when race had not been in the discussion at all, on a thread about a Republican from Dixie.
That's a bit like saying, a certain poster on NB is a jerk and his name looks a lot like shawn backwards, but that doesn't mean I'm talking about nwahs.
When cornered on the accusation, you said it was toward anonymous Republican bigots (presumably all from the southeast) who are amused by satire on talk radio.
So we have two options:
-you randomly decided to mention anonymous racism in the southeast on a thread about etiquette in Congress.
-you were forced to backtrack when you couldn't find proof of Wilson being racist.
Hmm, which one sounds more likely?
That you're a coward
September 10, 2009 - 16:15 ET by nwahsI pretty much think you have a lack of personal responsibility ( personal responsibility is a part of conservatism BTW).
You falsely accused me of calling Wilson a racist. You're too much of a coward to apologize. Have a nice life.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
Seriousely, NWAHs, I am surprised you are still posting on NB's
September 10, 2009 - 16:22 ET by pahuberI mean, I cannot count how many times you have been shown how foolish your arguments really are or jumped on some libtard bandwagon when it was already circling the toilet.
Why do you come here again?
I used to defend you
September 10, 2009 - 16:58 ET by candancewhen jwf called you a liar. Now I see why he does it.
How could you defend me?
September 10, 2009 - 20:01 ET by nwahsYou used to defend me? Why? You don't know me from Adam. You know what other on this board know, my postings under a pseudonym. How could you defend me? I don't need defense. My principles are clear, and that is I don't make excuses for anyone no matter what ideology, and rarely make " I agree" or "me too" posts. I've been on this board for a little over 2 years. I've probably made close to 1000 posts. Of those 1000 there have been some good posts and some very stupid posts. I've apologized for the very stupid ones both publicly and privately. In those 1000 posts, there is consistency in what I believe. It doesn't change because of who says it or who disagrees. I could not possible care less about the Peyton Place aspect of this board. I'm here for the debate, not the clique. Thats not a surprise to anyone who's been around for the last couple of years.
Don't defend me. You don't know me. Address the argument. And don't be afraid to admit when you've posted a falsehood, which you did in this thread. I never called Wilson a racist and you lied when you said I did. You don't have the guts to own up to it. Thats your problem not mine, but don't even attempt to instruct me on conservatism when you don't have the personal responsibility aspect down.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
keep flailing
September 10, 2009 - 20:30 ET by candanceYou're the one who mentioned a racist Republican from Dixie on a thread about a Republican from Dixie, when no other Republican had been brought up. Weasel all you want, but those are the facts.
Your intention was crystal clear.
Now you're holding up some jive about shadow figures in South Carolina who secretly harbor racism by listening to Glenn Beck. Wheels within wheels.
So that's what happened. Smack in the middle of a conversation about Joe Wilson, you just up and decided "I should post a random complaint about racism in the south."
That explanation does not hold up. You got busted peddling the race card and backtracked when it couldn't be defended.
You failed to answer a simple question
September 10, 2009 - 20:45 ET by nwahsYou said you defended me to some stranger. How could you defend me? You don't know me. What twilight zone are you in? How in the the hell could you defend me? Vouch for me, my credentials? You don't know my credentials. I'm a name on a board, I have no credentials. You don't know me, how the hell could you defend me? Stay off the rant and answer the simple question.
Perhaps its because I'm reasonable on the board? Better not say that Candance, leaves you swaying in the breeze. If I'm not reasonable on the board, why would you defend me?
You said you defended me. Why?
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
You have no credentials because you lie.
September 10, 2009 - 20:57 ET by JWFYou lie a lot. You lie when the truth will do. You lie, then you lie some more, then when caught you lie even more.
You have no credentials and no respect. That is why people question every little thing you do and constantly expose your lies. A very easy thing to do by the way, assume nwahs is lying and google to find the truth.
Hi, my name is nwahs, I called someone a racist, not Congressman Wilson, even though I said racist in a forum about him, and in response to posts about him. Now I claim I did not call him a racist but I refuse to actually, you know, say who I had in mind. Because I am a liar, and I have no credentials.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
you don't remember?
September 10, 2009 - 21:05 ET by candanceI used to think that JWF's "lying liar who lies about lying" mantra was overboard, and have on occasion asked him to tone it down. I defended you when you claimed to have missed some commercials on GB and others said it was impossible, I spoke up and said it would be feasible to miss them. There are other examples but I can't remember details.
And yet, right here I've dealt with you calling me a thug, a coward, and a liar, all for voicing my own opinion and then asking you about a race comment. I had to ask you like five different times before you answered, and even then all I got was "those racist people over there" as an explanation. When I challenged that as spin, I got more name calling.
Candance,
September 11, 2009 - 18:54 ET by RESTLESS 1You should have defended Jer. Then you would have only had to put up with Sergeant Rock calling you an @$$hole, and telling you to go to hell.
But I did get a nice cookie recipe out of it. :)
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Restless~how the cookie crumbles...
September 11, 2009 - 19:08 ET by Georgia GirlI hope it was at least more than the Tollhouse recipe! ;)
Don't feel badly. We all get kicked around on here, from time to time. Sorry it was your turn. :( You know the ole saying: "you can't please all the people, all the time." Enjoy some warm cookies and milk. ^_^
Eh,
September 11, 2009 - 19:29 ET by RESTLESS 1Sooner or late we'll get over it. There is a war afoot you know. Can't let dissention among the ranks derail us from our goal.
And yes, much better than Tollhouse.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
wait a second
September 10, 2009 - 16:24 ET by katainkentGlen Beck is a racist anti-social dixiecrat posing as a conservative? Who knew.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
I hate this question
September 10, 2009 - 11:51 ET by katainkentFar too much going on in my head to be a yes or no.
I think everytime Obama reached the end of a sentence he had either completed a lie or an insult, or both. I was yelling "LIAR!" at the computer. I spotted more than a dozen lies and I don't even consider myself fully informed. Its rediculous that he used that forum to parent congress and parent the nation with his Daddy scolding voice. It was a foul foul speech.
I don't think Rep Wilson should have shouted out given the forum. In my heart though I can understand why. If I, as a simple housewife can spot just a few lies, someone who has lived it as a Freshman Rep had to be beyond furious. I think he should have walked out. I would have rather seen no republicans there at all but I am not certain what that would have accomplished. I am satisfied that he's apologized. But it makes me ill that he's getting trashed.
The Emporer has no clothes. Someone had to say it. The pot has boiled over.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Wilson was correct in what
September 10, 2009 - 12:25 ET by ConservativeRexWilson was correct in what he did. That more of our no-nut Republicans would do the same. History shows us that our Founding Fathers did the very same thing only much louder and more persistent.
Which gets us back to the usual, democrats are always guilty of what they accuse Republicans of doing. That is the one constant. I seem to remember democrats cheering a GD Iraqi who threw his freakin' shoe at President Bush. So spare me any democrat BS. I also remember democrats booing at our President at a state of the union address.
We want the GOP to stand up, boo and catcall and turn their backs when this poser speaks in any forum. You don't like it? Tough, you don't get to call every dance tune partner.
As far as McCain goes, I guess he hasn't taken the hint yet. Well in a very few years he will. McCain, get gone, take Graham, Hatch and the rest of your demopublicans with you! We don't want bi-partisan anything. That time is over partner, take the freakin' hint. Shut-Up, sit down an just wait until you are voted out. Don't do anything, don't say anything.
In my book not wrong at
September 10, 2009 - 12:30 ET by BuffNBoneIn my book not wrong at all. The only open question about Wilson's comment is not if he will be proven correct--but when it will happen.
"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"
Did anyone notice
September 10, 2009 - 13:30 ET by well99All the Dems were up front and the Repubs were in the back?Just like townhall meeting where some Dems stack the deck.I remember with Bush each seem to sit on one side or the other.
Not only no...but hell
September 10, 2009 - 13:59 ET by bigtimerNot only no...but hell NO!
My regret is he apologized.
What also has made me sick is the GOP and a heck of a lot of congress-critters who have had their mugs on tv since the Liar-In-Chief's hate-filled lying propaganda filled BS last night that have R's behind their names.
McC...are you listening...along with the rest of your ilk, you are the problems, you don't get it, you don't understand the millions of people who are speaking out across this country, I hope it is to all of your own detriments.
I am still furious...guess you can tell.
Btw...I hope there is a campaign donation fund that has started for Joe Wilson...and he surpasses the dem the msm is making a big deal about who they say has received lots of $$$ from donors. ..just got here, so haven't checked out other threads yet.
Btw...a lot of us here over the years have yelped about the lack of a backbone when it comes from our side of the aisle, we have a man who couldn't take the lies last night, spoke out, showed his spine, and he is reprimanded from the GOP...what does that say to us out here in the real world...they are clueless, it is time for them to go.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
said what i was thinking
September 10, 2009 - 17:02 ET by CatherwoodJoe said out loud what a lot of people were thinking.
Cather... A heck of a lot
September 10, 2009 - 17:09 ET by bigtimerCather...
A heck of a lot of us across this land.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
I voted "other". While it
September 10, 2009 - 21:25 ET by Free StinkerI voted "other".
While it was disrespectful, the MSM and Democrats and Left Wing Bloggers are hypocrites to complain about it.
Cross post - Binky Braveheart aka JasonC does it again.
September 11, 2009 - 07:58 ET by JWFBinky posts a drive-by fallacious argument and runs for the hills as one person after another puts the smackdown on him. He leaves it for a drunk bigot clown, aka Binky Braveheart jr. (007memo) to carry his water.
in the forum - Was Rep. Wilson Wrong to Call President a Liar?
Binky posted this -
First of all, he is quoting from the house bill. And it is a fallacious argument, Binky's first love, Exception that proves the rule. I posted this directly from the Legal Insurrection blog.
Did you catch that boys and girls? Illegal aliens can participate in Critical Aspects of the government. They can have government insurance! If you are really poor, the government will help out with the payments, illegal aliens are exempt from that. But they can have government insurance!
Legal Insurrection links to the Congressional Research Service whose pdf states -
The Exchange boys and girls, aka the government option, aka the public option, aka Obamacare. Illegal aliens can get government coverage.
Now what was it President Obama said?
WHOA NELLY! PBO says it is false that we would insure illegal aliens.
But according to the House Bill that Binky Braveheart quoted from, this is not true. We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens.
Hear that Binky?
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
We will indeed give government insurance to illegal aliens!
Twice now, I have Proved it. I showed him something in black and white, something that's not just obstinate right-wing hysteria.
What gives Binky? You gonna get your drunk bigot clown to fill in for you again?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars
you catching this boys and girls?
September 11, 2009 - 08:14 ET by JWFAccording to H.R. bill 3200, the bill President Obama endorsed in July, and the bill JasonC quoted from, illegal aliens can opt in to the government insurance option.
Unemployed illegal aliens cannot however get cash assistance to help pay for the government insurance they opted into according to Section 246, the section JasonC quoted.
Employed illegal aliens, and rich illegal aliens can opt into government insurance. How much more black and white do I have to get for JasonC to admit he was wrong?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
fact? or fiction?
September 11, 2009 - 11:49 ET by foolnomorewhat ,?only the pant suits can speak out,,, an get away with it ? some with some bean's buy that"man" a beer.
Respect must be earned
September 11, 2009 - 20:21 ET by jodetoadThere is a time for manners, and a time to speak. Joe
Wilson apologized for his behavior, but not the
content of his comment. Thus he makes it clear that he agrees the standard of decorum was breached, but still feels the Big O is a liar.
Other things being equal, the office of the POTUS deserves respect. But things are not equal, and Obama was the guy making the speech. He has not earned my respect, far from it. Obama is the one disrespecting the Presidency.
If Obama was a run-of-the-mill president, I'd vote it was inappropriate. But Obama is working to distort the basic nature of America. He started by running as a centrist, his first major lie. That is more important than decorum.
For Christ sakes
September 11, 2009 - 23:15 ET by topdog729The guy said something he felt!
And the fact is at the end of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1r-1yJs77w