They can lie, spin, and tweak all they want, but the real numbers, closing stores, credit card debt amidst growing unemployment, etc. speaks for themselves. The worst thing is, with all the money we've printed, whenever we do "recover" the market will be flooded with all the dollars saved and held back, causing some interesting inflation. We just need to make sure that we hold the greenshooters responsible for their BS.
Our economy will recover as its doing without the bail-out or government help(oxymoron). The problem comes when the "full" bail-out is put into place and we get our bill and are asked to pay for it. We will not be able to pay it back and they ways to do so will drive our economy into 1930 status.
Since Obama has continued the loose credit policies that triggered the meltdown in the first place, this is probably just another bubble, founded on the illusion of value, rather than the creation of real value. Furthermore, all real economic growth is created in the private sector, and Obama continues to attack it with his policies.
1) ObamaCare is lurking in the wings and may very well pass in some form yet.
2) Crap & Tax only awaits implementation by the EPA, as Senate approval is not needed.
3) Obama's confiscatory tax increases are just around the corner, and they are coming whether ObamaCare passes or not. Remember, Turbo Tax Timmy promised the Chicoms he was going to close th gap in the debt. To the liberal mind, there is only one way to do that-the wrong way.
4) the private sector is still shrinking, and will shrink far further still.
5) Barack Hussein Obama is still in office.
6) Far too many Americans, including many, MANY conservatives, are still operating on the erroneous assumption that the Obama administration is actually trying to improve this economy.
I don't know much about the stock market, but it seems that there has been a growing disconnect between it and parts of the actual economy over recent years. For instance, even while my experience reflected the steep decline in the wholesale/retail consumer market a year and a half ago, the stock market was continuing to climb.
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
If this is true (not saying it is), then this will be the distribution of blame:
For an improving economy: Obama and the Democrats will be praised for "hard work", "dedication to change", and other vague, misdirecting phrases. Additionally, this will give the media an opportunity to wipe the smudges of corruption from Democrats across the country.
For the previously failing economy: Bush and the GOP'ers. Bush will be blamed for repealing taxes and not chastizing the rich, not to mention that Bush started global warming when he released Cheney's weather machine in southern Florida. Additionally, this will give the media an opportunity to re-emphasize GOP corruption.
look around. trust your instincts. People that are saying that things are getting better has a vested interest in saying that and are not being truthful. We have a long, long, way to go and we just may not get out. I see a crash frankly.
Hell no. Anyone with any common sense knows this. Obama is hyping up "Green Jobs" as the saviour of the economy. The economically unfeasible and heavily subsidized green industries that are supposed to compete in the global economy? How can companies that can't make a profit without government welfare save the economy?
Our president has no common sense. None of his policies concerning trade, labor, the economy, the environment, etc. are in any way practical.
The way to get America out of this recession is by making it lucrative to invest here, not only for americans but for the entire world. Instead of lowering taxes, lowering tariffs, relaxing environmental laws, and just making it cheaper to do business in america... he's making it harder and more expensive. It's plain stupid. The global economy can pull us out of this, the government just needs to "whore out." Why is the european economy still alive? We can make america a cheaper and more lucrative place to do business for everyone with less socialism, less overhead, extremely low taxes, less unionization, relaxed environmental restrictions, more options. Why pay a euro 40 bucks an hour so he can afford his 70 percent income tax when you can pay an american 22 'cause his tax rate is only 15 percent?
These aren't the 1930's. Businesses are more mobile than they used to be. You can't choke them into submission, they'll just move. They can't be bullied. We are in the world of the worldwide web, jet airplanes, diesel powered freighters, computerized banking and trading. Corporations, entrepreuners, private investors no longer need you, you need them. Money buys mobility and all those with the jobs have 'em.
I'm from California. Everytime the liberals impose a new tax or hardnosed environmental law, a factory or business closes. Everything that made California an economic power is going to the south or overseas. The defense industry is leaving. Manufacturing is long gone. Chunks of the silicon valley relocated to India and other countries. And now due to federal environmental laws the bread basket of the world is undergoing a man made drought over a tiny fish.
The recession is not over, just look at a place like California. A big link in the chain is cracked.
Don't stocks often go up a little when businesses fire a bunch of people? It cuts tons of cost and could at least temporarily restore some profits or cut losses. It doesn't lead to economic growth though. I think this is how stocks are modestly rising while employmnet and growth shrink.
Seats on the lifeboats on the SS Titanic would have gone up, too had there been an open market for them.
A lot of these + stock values recently have to do with how companies' foreign workers and productivity are doing-has little to do with any of us over here...unless maybe you own stock in those companies that is. Also, cutting back is helping many of these companies' bottom lines...that's the point in cutting back. Duh.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Far from an economist, I couldn't say one way or another what the market is indicating. There's an excellent piece by Fred Barnes on The Weekly Standard here that seems to explain the inability or unwillingness of the President to grasp free-market economics; which if true, does not bode well for any recovery. History shows that the plan offered by this administration is similar to the FDR spending spree of the 30's that, if you believe helped bring the country out of a depression, took roughly 10 years to accomplish. (The fact that so many people suddenly got jobs in- in or support of- the Armed Forces may have had some effect; but I digress...)
It seems that the free market will eventually correct itself. Personally, I think if we had not bailed any large company out, and the assets were sold to stronger compaines, we'd be seeing much more in the way of improvement by this point. Home sales are probably just bargain hunters with some spare cash buying up foreclosures, since banks still aren't lending money and home builders are still dropping like flies. My uneducated guess: we've got at least another year of this; no sustained growth until 2Q 2011.
I would have voted NO except I did not like the phrasing. I don't think that the rallies of the 30's were false. They reflected the facts at the time. Washington just acted ways that managed to kill them almost immediately. Love that New Deal.
I expect the same behavior from our current overloads.
There was no false rally. The GDP grew steadily until the recession of 1937 when the conservatives pressured FDR into balancing the budget. He stopped the New Deal spending and raised taxes and the country went into a slight recession which lasted less than two years and then continued to grow. The real growth happened later when there was a enormous government public works program started call World War II.
My econ professor, who I took two courses under, taught me that, had it not been for WW II, the Great Depression would have probably lasted well into the 1950's, specifically because of the wrong-headed actions of FDR and the federal government, which served only to deepen and prolong it.
Most of those exact same mistakes FDR made are being repeated by our current federal government:
Those rallies were false, as they were very quickly choked off by the actions of the federal government, which repeatedly tried to spend us out of the Depression by raiding the treasury and creating a few make-work bullsh*t jobs, just like Obama is doing now.
The only thing that ended the Great Depression in the early 1940's was gearing up for, and producing the materials for, WW II.
Had it not been for that, there is a pretty good chance the Depression would have gone on for at least another decade, if not longer. My guess is, FDR and his entire socialist cabal would have been run off long before that.
We are currently nearing an economic depression ourselves, in what is essentially a post-industrial economy, with a treasury that is as empty as it could possibly be.
Even if a war was to break out, we wouldn't have months and years to gear up for it as we did in the late 1930's. We will probably only have a few hours, actually.
I don't even think Obama is creating any make-work BS jobs. I think most of the "Stimulus" money is being spent to protect Government employment at the state and local level, give raises to civil servants while private sector workers take pay cuts, and fund political operatives of the Democratic Party such as ACORN.
And the rest of it was nothing more than a pay-off to other traditional dim constituencies, the plan for which has probably been sitting around since the dims lost control of congress in 1994.
It was [very] thinly disquised as an economic "stimulus" package, and bought hook, line and sinker by a very gullible, uneducated American public.
Those "make-work jobs" put money into people's pockets who were then able to pay their mortages--helping stabilize the banking industry, buy groceries--which helped agribusiness and buy durable goods--which helped manufacturing. Together it made our GDP go up which was evidenced by the chart I provided. Provide a chart that shows it didn't.
And these weren't just bull$hit jobs as you suggest. The WPA built sidewalks in my neighborhood that exist today bearing the WPA stamp. Tileworkers were hired to tile traffic tunnels creating better visibility. Apartments and hospitals were built. The WPA even built golf courses. Not to mention Roosevelt's creation of the Civilian Conservation Corps which helped build shelters and roads throughout our National Park System. Take a look around your community. There are probably WPA project there you never even knew existed.
The money put into people's pockets from the jobs the government "creates" comes from the pockets of other people who are taxed to pay for those jobs. The interest paid on the money to pay the people for the jobs "created" also must be paid by people who have jobs. This means less money being spent by people with real jobs. How does this make sense?
It makes sense because people with jobs, no matter how they were created will spend money because they HAVE money. It isn't something that can be summarized in a paragraph and I won't try to do it here. The more you study about the economy and the Great Depression from more than one source, it will become clear to you how FDR was able to navigate our Nation out of the depression.
I've studied the economy during the Great Depression and it was WWII that pullled us out. Creating jobs is taking wealth from one area, moving it to another, then giving some up in interest payments. It's not creating any wealth at all, just depleting it.
You pretty well summed it up, those of us who had jobs and would work have been stripped of that privilege since osama bin obama use the CRA, acorn, freddie and fannie and a long list of I'll pay you thugs back for making me totus destroyed the housing market, now we can no longer support the rev wrong, prof gates and all the rest of the reparation thugs, tough sh.. is all I have to say. I bet osama bin obama who is making paying my mortgage so damn near impossible aint gonna send me a peggy the moocher check.
"No Recovery until Nobama!!!!!" me and at least 59,934,786 other Americans.
They think that, no matter how high you tax them, the productive among us are going to just keep mindlessly plugging along.
Wrong.
Small business owners in this country are already being taxed to the breaking point. Should Obama knock them over that breaking point, which he has indicated he intends to do, many, if not most of them, are going to either very quickly go Galt, or just shut down altogether and walk away.
By this point, the bulk of the "super rich" will have executed their escape plans, and will be completely out of the tax pool, or close to it.
What then happens is that our now [self-feeding], out-of-control monster of a federal government will very quickly begin ratcheting down the income scale with their confiscatory taxes, until they get deep into what is left of the middle class.
The middle class will very quickly run out of money, so the next move on the part of government will be to lock down the borders and turn the remaining population into slaves of said government, just like what happened in the Soviet Union, as well as Eastern Europe, following the end of WW II.
The sad part is, many people, including a lot of people here at NB, will tell you, "Oh, why, that could never, EVER happen here."
Thanks to Obama's Iran policy, World War 3 should be starting sometime soon with a mushroom cloud somewhere.
That should cure the US economy.
Ever notice how people who believe complex conspiracy theories, usually think the intricate universe and humans are merely an accidental product of random events.
president Nezon, presideing over of the era of zap comics...
EPA now on the collection plate of the squishy earth firstersters.
All is good, suction the tax payers,
Thanks be to thee EPA... the space program downhill from 1972.
When has man traveled faster than 23,456.789 MPH?????? in 1975? 1980? 1990? 2000? 2010? 2020? any projects planned, that will accelerate man or woman past earth's EXCAPE VELOCITY.
China has plans to pull it off , even has plutomium cars ready to ply the lunar surface. So did we in the 1950's yawn N evil ,eww too..
Ain't technology; it's the feelings... Quick what event happened first ?
Santa Barbara oil spill or man on moon..yea that's a easy one for the 9-11 truthers, moon lander deniners, aircraft landing on and inside , sides of buildings.. didn't happen with aircraft; gang. ...
Question? Will China get stucked out of the space race with obamadept?
In 50 years no one will believe we flew in "metal aircraft art work" that plained thousands of feet high the earths atomosphere. NFW
Pop goes the weasel, opps... pop Freedom...poof .. Just a fart in that space time continuum a non everlasting thingy ma jigs.
Fun while it lasted...Ahh the age of Oil transportation and electricity for all...
I quit! I am convinced everybody! goldbunk convinced me. I quits teh conservatives. Here is my card. Screw you conservatives.
The goldang conservatives convinced Roosevelt to stop spending money he did not have and the was the ONLY reason the economy crashed in the great depression. Nope, it was teh evil conservatives. Nothing at all happened prior to 1937. There was no 25% unemployment. No. No. No. It was teh evil conservatives in 1937. Roosevelt was a genius and he was hoodwinked in 1937 by the conservatives in 1937 that were evil in 1937.
I quit. Where is the nearest liberal office?
Why? Why? Why did I take 14 years of history classes when all I need is a paragraph from goldstain.
So Roosevelt was spending money he did not have and got it by borrowing - GOOD GOOD GOOD.
Conservertives screwed Roosevelt - BAD BAD BAD
WWII comes along. We start spending money we do not have by borrowing it again - GOOD GOOD GOOD.
Got that Obama - keep it up. Keep spending money you do not have. That is GOOD GOOD GOOD. I am learning to speak Zimbabweez. They are very good at that. At this rate, we should all be speaking Zimbabweez soon.
Can we finally call the Great Depression what it really was - the Great HappyGoodTimes until the conservatives ruined it in 1937.
I don't know where you get your supercilious ignorance from, but if I were you, I'd track down my parents and check if its genetic.
Ever notice how people who believe complex conspiracy theories, usually think the intricate universe and humans are merely an accidental product of random events.
We are not here to argue the history/ramifications/reasoning of the Great Depression.
Neither are you. You want to turn it into a partisan argument of conservatives vs god knows who. You are here like you are always here for one purpose - dump on conservatives.
Dippy Dumas: ...the recession of 1937 when the conservatives pressured...
The conservative movement started in the early 50's. You are clearly here to hammer on conservatives using history.
No. I am tired of creating links. I told this troll the truth. He called me a liar. I won't take it to the forum. I take an hour of my time to put the truthy smackdown on a troll and they never show up.
He came here and claimed conservatives hid Obama's birth certificate in 1937 and messed up a recovery in the Great Depression. I have proved the conservative movement was not around in 1937.
There was a conservative movement among Democrats in 1937. Which he should have stated up front here on a conservative site. Not the same as conservatives today. But shocker, very very very much smarter than Democrats today. As stated elsewhere here on this page - it was conservative minded Democrats, Roosevelts own party.
The Conservative Manifesto
Josiah Bailey co-authored the Conservative Manifesto, a plan for national economic recovery during the Great Depression. Image courtesy of the North Carolina Office of Archives and History, Raleigh, NC.
In 1937, U.S. Senator Josiah Bailey of North Carolina was concerned that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his New Deal programs were leading America and North Carolina down the road to collectivism. Although he did not oppose every attempt at government intervention, Senator Bailey believed that limitations should be placed on government growth.
In 1937, the nation experienced an economic recession, and partisan lines blurred as Republicans and conservative Democrats formed a coalition to protest Roosevelt’s attempt to “pack the court.” That year, FDR placed the “responsibility for pulling the nation out of economic recession on business interests,” writes historian John Robert Moore. However, President Roosevelt offered no economic recovery plan nor lifted restrictions so that businesses could rescue a collapsing economy. In this time of economic uncertainty, Bailey fostered bi-partisan opposition to FDR’s New Deal programs. In hopes of revitalizing the national economy, reluctant New Dealers and anti-New Dealers drafted the Conservative Manifesto to serve as the blueprint for economic recovery and offer what they considered practical solutions.
The planning and writing of the manifesto were done without the knowledge of FDR. Eventually the secretive work of the bi-partisan alliance was leaked, and fearing political repercussions, many Senators denied any involvement with the creation of the Conservative Manifesto. Bailey, however, accepted responsibility.
According to Moore, the Conservative Manifesto’s ten points were as follows:
1. Immediate revision of taxes on capital gains and undistributed profits in order to free investment funds.
2. Reduced expenditures to achieve a balanced budget, and thus, to still fears deterring business expansion.
3. An end to coercion and violence in relations between capital and labor.
4. Opposition to “unnecessary” government competition with private enterprise. 5. Recognition that private investment and enterprise require a reasonable profit. 6. Safeguarding the collateral upon which credit rests.
7. Reduction of taxes, or if this proved impossible at the moment, firm assurance of no further increases.
8. Maintenance of state rights, home rule, and local self-government, except where proved definitely inadequate.
9. Economical and non-political relief to unemployed with maximum local responsibility.
10. Reliance upon the American form of government and the American system of enterprise.
Check out number 4. Universal health care. Hello, Obama. Opposition to “unnecessary” government competition with private enterprise.
I advise you to read as much as you can about FDR and the Great Depression from many different sources. The reason for the recovery will become more evident, the more you read. I'm talking books, not websites.
Once again, we have a troll that is spouting economic history written by a liberal instead of an economist.
Just because you deliberately misrepresented that Roosevelt's own Democrats were opposing his insane policies by referring to them using the term conservative on a conservative website that opposes liberal media bias. Just because you deliberately misled to further your partisan will, does not give you the right to tell me what to do, Dimpy Goldfart.
House Majority: Democratic
House of Representatives
Democratic (D): 334 (majority)
Republican (R): 88
Progressive (P): 8
Farmer-Labor (F-L): 5
TOTAL members: 435
Sessions
1st: January 5, 1937 – August 21, 1937
Ever notice how people who believe complex conspiracy theories, usually think the intricate universe and humans are merely an accidental product of random events.
The careful reader will note I said 'conservative', not republican. Do you know anything about history that doesn't involve cutting and pasting from websites?
I noted that doofus. The careful reader will note that you indulge in sophomoric idiocy.
You might try to convince lumpens in your aquaitanance that Democrats are "conservatives" because your tiny mind just cannot process what actually happened.
That would be the way FDR, and Democrats adopting a quasi-socialist agenda ensured massive unempoyment for years after the Depression.
Sorry -- but you can't handle the truth. And one doesn't have to be careful to see that. Please feel free to cut and paste that history lesson.
Ever notice how people who believe complex conspiracy theories, usually think the intricate universe and humans are merely an accidental product of random events.
We will dig our way out of this hole by ignoring fiscal responsibility? Do you think the Fed can spend OUR money and get us out of a poor economy? Can we prosper when we force jobs off of our shores because of regulation or tax? Where has it been done?
Your partisanship is pointless, we know these policies dont work, even when your saviour uses them.
Those who ignore it, don't know it, or forget it, are condemned to repeat it.
Given the damn near carbon-copy parallels of current government actions with the actions of the government idiots who ran this country during the 1930's, I'd say we are about to live it all over again.
Only this time, we are going to see a very different outcome.
LOL-You know, in some ways, I almost envy goldbar here, as he hasn't the foggiest hint of a clue of what is actually coming our way.
I mean, he really believes that the policies of FDR are what got America out of the Great Depression. What is worse, he thinks the exact same government that got us into this mess to begin with, is going to get us out of it.
RD == It's a typical tactic of the Angry White Liberal. Make ridiculous claims about historical events.
The guy's a joke. Hence my non-response once I've laid out the facts. There's no point in me wasting my time!
Ever notice how people who believe complex conspiracy theories, usually think the intricate universe and humans are merely an accidental product of random events.
Other. I follow the market rather closley. What we are looking at is a simple earnings rally. 111 out of 142 earnings reports so far have beat expectations. That is not always an indicator of a recovering market. Most of those beat the estimates by cutting over head, (reducing work force for example). Not from consumer spending. The market knows this. And I look for the market to pull back of these highs in Aug.
I agree. All the cutting that has taken place has created positive earnings. When companies aren't selling as much product, they must cut staff and close facilities in order to make room for profit to happen. And.........it happens. Doesn't mean any laid off employee is back to work. Their products/services must be in demand for that staffing to pick up again.
With Obama having signed all the spending, the media wants to be able to say the recession is over, and be able to naively point to Obama's policies as the savior, when they're the opposite. They tie down the economy and it grows only if it can overcome that stupidity. Also, if the media can push that we are out of recession, it will empower them and the Obama admin and Congressional liberals to talk more about tax hikes (for healthcare and cap n trade) without as much fear of the rebuttal of "you can't hike taxes during a recession" because we won't be in a recession.
Interesting eh? If we are out of recession, we're never going to hear the end of how the Socialist Dear Leader is doing it all right. Oh wait, we don't hear the end of that now, what am I thinking?
If the recession is over, it's proof how resilient the US economy is. It emerges despite the Socialist Obama. Albeit, not as quickly or as strongly, thanks to dear leader complete disdain for our nation.
This is a dead cat bounce to drive the market up so the big boys can bail and pull the rug out. There are projections of no net new jobs being created for the next 5 years. There can be no real recovery without real jobs (not government make-work jobs)
The stock Market is for skilled traders these days. It will bounce up and down in short range but there isn't any real value being added it is just manipulation. With the Fed auctioning off $100 billions of various term length bonds, weekly the country is doomed to massive inflation and outflow for 30+ years to pay off the newly aquired debt. Apple, IBM, RIM and Tech are not going to supply jobs or enough to help the country return to work. Many large and mid cap companies are going offshore as fast they can further taking away skilled paying jobs. When GE built steam turbines and generators they employed thousands of high paying jobs across the country, now it is but a shell of itself with equipment made off shore. Building and installing throw away solar panels isn't going to emply millions. They don't require overhauls or reapir, they just get recycled offshore and installed by minimum pay workers.
Wake Up America, Orwells 1984 is trying to get a foot hold and must be stopped.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
every 60 days
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 10:48 ET by sevenObama has a new attack on growth coming at lengthier intervals. That is not growth.
Slowing retraction is far from growth.
If we can see a month or 2 and a quarter of private sector employment growth, that we can start to recover some ground from the strong Bush years.
Exactly. Businesses are Failing. FHA's Out of Money.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:16 ET by farstar99A little Soros money pumped into the market isn't real performance.
Frankly, anyone who supports this Obamaconomy is a traitor.
Stop supporting fascism and opt out of the economy until the Democrats are out of power. Stop buying.
They Can Lie and Tweak
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 10:59 ET by TuariThey can lie, spin, and tweak all they want, but the real numbers, closing stores, credit card debt amidst growing unemployment, etc. speaks for themselves. The worst thing is, with all the money we've printed, whenever we do "recover" the market will be flooded with all the dollars saved and held back, causing some interesting inflation. We just need to make sure that we hold the greenshooters responsible for their BS.
America's Bill
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:13 ET by QuinnrastaJayk Quinn
Our economy will recover as its doing without the bail-out or government help(oxymoron). The problem comes when the "full" bail-out is put into place and we get our bill and are asked to pay for it. We will not be able to pay it back and they ways to do so will drive our economy into 1930 status.
Since Obama has continued
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:15 ET by robert108Since Obama has continued the loose credit policies that triggered the meltdown in the first place, this is probably just another bubble, founded on the illusion of value, rather than the creation of real value. Furthermore, all real economic growth is created in the private sector, and Obama continues to attack it with his policies.
This recession is far from over
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:54 ET by R D Helm1) ObamaCare is lurking in the wings and may very well pass in some form yet.
2) Crap & Tax only awaits implementation by the EPA, as Senate approval is not needed.
3) Obama's confiscatory tax increases are just around the corner, and they are coming whether ObamaCare passes or not. Remember, Turbo Tax Timmy promised the Chicoms he was going to close th gap in the debt. To the liberal mind, there is only one way to do that-the wrong way.
4) the private sector is still shrinking, and will shrink far further still.
5) Barack Hussein Obama is still in office.
6) Far too many Americans, including many, MANY conservatives, are still operating on the erroneous assumption that the Obama administration is actually trying to improve this economy.
-Dave
I don't know much about the
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:19 ET by Chris NormanI don't know much about the stock market, but it seems that there has been a growing disconnect between it and parts of the actual economy over recent years. For instance, even while my experience reflected the steep decline in the wholesale/retail consumer market a year and a half ago, the stock market was continuing to climb.
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
If this is true (not saying
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:34 ET by AJIf this is true (not saying it is), then this will be the distribution of blame:
...wow. How surprising...
recession
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:44 ET by charlietexaslook around. trust your instincts. People that are saying that things are getting better has a vested interest in saying that and are not being truthful. We have a long, long, way to go and we just may not get out. I see a crash frankly.
There will be growth -- but in comparison to WHAT?
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 11:57 ET by ekslibSeedlings that have been stunted by cool weather will resume growth when the weather warms.
But I hope I would resist any temptation to buy one, especially one that looks deformed.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:01 ET by jessieHWithout jobs there can be no recovery. It's all smoke & mirrors.
Hell no. Anyone with any
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:23 ET by NonArabOmarHell no. Anyone with any common sense knows this. Obama is hyping up "Green Jobs" as the saviour of the economy. The economically unfeasible and heavily subsidized green industries that are supposed to compete in the global economy? How can companies that can't make a profit without government welfare save the economy?
Our president has no common sense. None of his policies concerning trade, labor, the economy, the environment, etc. are in any way practical.
The way to get America out of this recession is by making it lucrative to invest here, not only for americans but for the entire world. Instead of lowering taxes, lowering tariffs, relaxing environmental laws, and just making it cheaper to do business in america... he's making it harder and more expensive. It's plain stupid. The global economy can pull us out of this, the government just needs to "whore out." Why is the european economy still alive? We can make america a cheaper and more lucrative place to do business for everyone with less socialism, less overhead, extremely low taxes, less unionization, relaxed environmental restrictions, more options. Why pay a euro 40 bucks an hour so he can afford his 70 percent income tax when you can pay an american 22 'cause his tax rate is only 15 percent?
These aren't the 1930's. Businesses are more mobile than they used to be. You can't choke them into submission, they'll just move. They can't be bullied. We are in the world of the worldwide web, jet airplanes, diesel powered freighters, computerized banking and trading. Corporations, entrepreuners, private investors no longer need you, you need them. Money buys mobility and all those with the jobs have 'em.
I'm from California. Everytime the liberals impose a new tax or hardnosed environmental law, a factory or business closes. Everything that made California an economic power is going to the south or overseas. The defense industry is leaving. Manufacturing is long gone. Chunks of the silicon valley relocated to India and other countries. And now due to federal environmental laws the bread basket of the world is undergoing a man made drought over a tiny fish.
The recession is not over, just look at a place like California. A big link in the chain is cracked.
It's all in your perspective.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:13 ET by c5thenAs Einstein said, perception is relative.
I think this is a text book example of the proverbial "Dead Cat Bounce"
Here is a wider perspective
Notice that the DOW said that the 1930's depression was "over" in 1934 yet the economy didn't actually recover until 1941.
Throw 'da bums out!
no one re-elected who voted for socialism or debt
www.loyaltoliberty.com
stocks
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:18 ET by forestDon't stocks often go up a little when businesses fire a bunch of people? It cuts tons of cost and could at least temporarily restore some profits or cut losses. It doesn't lead to economic growth though. I think this is how stocks are modestly rising while employmnet and growth shrink.
Seats on the lifeboats on
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:20 ET by RR GOPSeats on the lifeboats on the SS Titanic would have gone up, too had there been an open market for them.
A lot of these + stock values recently have to do with how companies' foreign workers and productivity are doing-has little to do with any of us over here...unless maybe you own stock in those companies that is. Also, cutting back is helping many of these companies' bottom lines...that's the point in cutting back. Duh.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Voted Other
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:25 ET by BKeyserFar from an economist, I couldn't say one way or another what the market is indicating. There's an excellent piece by Fred Barnes on The Weekly Standard here that seems to explain the inability or unwillingness of the President to grasp free-market economics; which if true, does not bode well for any recovery. History shows that the plan offered by this administration is similar to the FDR spending spree of the 30's that, if you believe helped bring the country out of a depression, took roughly 10 years to accomplish. (The fact that so many people suddenly got jobs in- in or support of- the Armed Forces may have had some effect; but I digress...)
It seems that the free market will eventually correct itself. Personally, I think if we had not bailed any large company out, and the assets were sold to stronger compaines, we'd be seeing much more in the way of improvement by this point. Home sales are probably just bargain hunters with some spare cash buying up foreclosures, since banks still aren't lending money and home builders are still dropping like flies. My uneducated guess: we've got at least another year of this; no sustained growth until 2Q 2011.
I Could Not Believe...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:26 ET by Wildcatter1980Bernanke said inflation will not be an issue. Federal deficit spending and having monetized the debt can only lead to inflation.
What is going on right now are professional traders eeking out profits based on buying up good companies driven down beyond where they should be.
--
We already have term limits. They are called elections. We can & should vote out those who do not represent & serve us! - Me
Almost a NO
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:52 ET by OBQuietI would have voted NO except I did not like the phrasing. I don't think that the rallies of the 30's were false. They reflected the facts at the time. Washington just acted ways that managed to kill them almost immediately. Love that New Deal.
I expect the same behavior from our current overloads.
If the recession is over, then...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:56 ET by BarkerThank You George Bush!!!
There was no false rally.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:57 ET by goldbarThere was no false rally. The GDP grew steadily until the recession of 1937 when the conservatives pressured FDR into balancing the budget. He stopped the New Deal spending and raised taxes and the country went into a slight recession which lasted less than two years and then continued to grow. The real growth happened later when there was a enormous government public works program started call World War II.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/GDP/Depression.html
Sorry, goldbar, but some of
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 13:30 ET by R D HelmSorry, goldbar, but some of the largest stock market rallies that have ever taken place occurred during the Great Depression:
http://www.phantasmix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dow-then-now.jpg
My econ professor, who I took two courses under, taught me that, had it not been for WW II, the Great Depression would have probably lasted well into the 1950's, specifically because of the wrong-headed actions of FDR and the federal government, which served only to deepen and prolong it.
Most of those exact same mistakes FDR made are being repeated by our current federal government:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/07/we-are-now-in-early-stages-of.h...
Unless you see one hell of a war on the horizon, we are headed for a pretty bad time.
-Dave
Well, then you and I agree.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:00 ET by goldbarWell, then you and I agree. There was no 'false rally'. The rally was very real and was intitiated by FDR's New Deal.
goldbar, we don't agree on jack here
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:52 ET by R D HelmThose rallies were false, as they were very quickly choked off by the actions of the federal government, which repeatedly tried to spend us out of the Depression by raiding the treasury and creating a few make-work bullsh*t jobs, just like Obama is doing now.
The only thing that ended the Great Depression in the early 1940's was gearing up for, and producing the materials for, WW II.
Had it not been for that, there is a pretty good chance the Depression would have gone on for at least another decade, if not longer. My guess is, FDR and his entire socialist cabal would have been run off long before that.
We are currently nearing an economic depression ourselves, in what is essentially a post-industrial economy, with a treasury that is as empty as it could possibly be.
Even if a war was to break out, we wouldn't have months and years to gear up for it as we did in the late 1930's. We will probably only have a few hours, actually.
Not much economic stimulation in that.
-Dave
I don't even think Obama is
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:55 ET by NL207I don't even think Obama is creating any make-work BS jobs. I think most of the "Stimulus" money is being spent to protect Government employment at the state and local level, give raises to civil servants while private sector workers take pay cuts, and fund political operatives of the Democratic Party such as ACORN.
NL... I agree with your
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:04 ET by bigtimerNL...
I agree with your sentiments.
Plus if he has way, more small businesses will go down...other businesses out of this country...
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
NL, I agree.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:09 ET by R D HelmAnd the rest of it was nothing more than a pay-off to other traditional dim constituencies, the plan for which has probably been sitting around since the dims lost control of congress in 1994.
It was [very] thinly disquised as an economic "stimulus" package, and bought hook, line and sinker by a very gullible, uneducated American public.
-Dave
Those "make-work jobs" but
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:05 ET by goldbarThose "make-work jobs" put money into people's pockets who were then able to pay their mortages--helping stabilize the banking industry, buy groceries--which helped agribusiness and buy durable goods--which helped manufacturing. Together it made our GDP go up which was evidenced by the chart I provided. Provide a chart that shows it didn't.
And these weren't just bull$hit jobs as you suggest. The WPA built sidewalks in my neighborhood that exist today bearing the WPA stamp. Tileworkers were hired to tile traffic tunnels creating better visibility. Apartments and hospitals were built. The WPA even built golf courses. Not to mention Roosevelt's creation of the Civilian Conservation Corps which helped build shelters and roads throughout our National Park System. Take a look around your community. There are probably WPA project there you never even knew existed.
The money put into people's
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:11 ET by Radical1979The money put into people's pockets from the jobs the government "creates" comes from the pockets of other people who are taxed to pay for those jobs. The interest paid on the money to pay the people for the jobs "created" also must be paid by people who have jobs. This means less money being spent by people with real jobs. How does this make sense?
It makes sense because
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:29 ET by goldbarIt makes sense because people with jobs, no matter how they were created will spend money because they HAVE money. It isn't something that can be summarized in a paragraph and I won't try to do it here. The more you study about the economy and the Great Depression from more than one source, it will become clear to you how FDR was able to navigate our Nation out of the depression.
I've studied the economy
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:38 ET by Radical1979I've studied the economy during the Great Depression and it was WWII that pullled us out. Creating jobs is taking wealth from one area, moving it to another, then giving some up in interest payments. It's not creating any wealth at all, just depleting it.
goldbar, Those "jobs" only existed as long as there were...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:19 ET by R D Helm...people employed in the private sector that the government was able to take money from by force, in order to pay those who were in those "jobs."
Those "jobs" would not have been sustainable or even produced by the private sector, unless there was an actual need or demand for what they produced.
Government doesn't create wealth or jobs. It only redistributes both, and injects hideous inefficiencies along the way.
The gross inefficiencies forced onto the economy by those so-called government "jobs" only made the overall problem far worse in the end.
-Dave
R D, those jobs,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:50 ET by RD KingYou pretty well summed it up, those of us who had jobs and would work have been stripped of that privilege since osama bin obama use the CRA, acorn, freddie and fannie and a long list of I'll pay you thugs back for making me totus destroyed the housing market, now we can no longer support the rev wrong, prof gates and all the rest of the reparation thugs, tough sh.. is all I have to say. I bet osama bin obama who is making paying my mortgage so damn near impossible aint gonna send me a peggy the moocher check.
"No Recovery until Nobama!!!!!" me and at least 59,934,786 other Americans.
RD King, lefty goober-cheeses like goldbar crack me up
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:17 ET by R D HelmThey think that, no matter how high you tax them, the productive among us are going to just keep mindlessly plugging along.
Wrong.
Small business owners in this country are already being taxed to the breaking point. Should Obama knock them over that breaking point, which he has indicated he intends to do, many, if not most of them, are going to either very quickly go Galt, or just shut down altogether and walk away.
By this point, the bulk of the "super rich" will have executed their escape plans, and will be completely out of the tax pool, or close to it.
What then happens is that our now [self-feeding], out-of-control monster of a federal government will very quickly begin ratcheting down the income scale with their confiscatory taxes, until they get deep into what is left of the middle class.
The middle class will very quickly run out of money, so the next move on the part of government will be to lock down the borders and turn the remaining population into slaves of said government, just like what happened in the Soviet Union, as well as Eastern Europe, following the end of WW II.
The sad part is, many people, including a lot of people here at NB, will tell you, "Oh, why, that could never, EVER happen here."
It's already well underway.
-Dave
Oh that's alright
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 13:34 ET by Jack BauerOh that's alright then.
Thanks to Obama's Iran policy, World War 3 should be starting sometime soon with a mushroom cloud somewhere.
That should cure the US economy.
JB-24 ( mandarin chinese) , yea, back to the future AKA 700 AD.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 04:20 ET by upcountrywaterI find it real insteresting, Nixon yapping with the first moon walkers....
wammo Whole Earth Catalog
president Nezon, presideing over of the era of zap comics...
EPA now on the collection plate of the squishy earth firstersters.
All is good, suction the tax payers,
Thanks be to thee EPA... the space program downhill from 1972.
When has man traveled faster than 23,456.789 MPH?????? in 1975? 1980? 1990? 2000? 2010? 2020? any projects planned, that will accelerate man or woman past earth's EXCAPE VELOCITY.
China has plans to pull it off , even has plutomium cars ready to ply the lunar surface. So did we in the 1950's yawn N evil ,eww too..
Ain't technology; it's the feelings... Quick what event happened first ?
Santa Barbara oil spill or man on moon..yea that's a easy one for the 9-11 truthers, moon lander deniners, aircraft landing on and inside , sides of buildings.. didn't happen with aircraft; gang. ...
Question? Will China get stucked out of the space race with obamadept?
In 50 years no one will believe we flew in "metal aircraft art work" that plained thousands of feet high the earths atomosphere. NFW
Pop goes the weasel, opps... pop Freedom...poof .. Just a fart in that space time continuum a non everlasting thingy ma jigs.
Fun while it lasted...Ahh the age of Oil transportation and electricity for all...
POP GOES THE CIRCUIT BREAKER. yt 9 seconds..... do this in full screen.
Here one second ,gone the next... nation wide power grid. pooff.
Aloha flush toilets, and cold anything. Opps just one of those unthinkable thoughts.
Those evil evil evil evil evil evil evil nasty conservatives!
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 13:57 ET by JWFI quit! I am convinced everybody! goldbunk convinced me. I quits teh conservatives. Here is my card. Screw you conservatives.
The goldang conservatives convinced Roosevelt to stop spending money he did not have and the was the ONLY reason the economy crashed in the great depression. Nope, it was teh evil conservatives. Nothing at all happened prior to 1937. There was no 25% unemployment. No. No. No. It was teh evil conservatives in 1937. Roosevelt was a genius and he was hoodwinked in 1937 by the conservatives in 1937 that were evil in 1937.
I quit. Where is the nearest liberal office?
Why? Why? Why did I take 14 years of history classes when all I need is a paragraph from goldstain.
So Roosevelt was spending money he did not have and got it by borrowing - GOOD GOOD GOOD.
Conservertives screwed Roosevelt - BAD BAD BAD
WWII comes along. We start spending money we do not have by borrowing it again - GOOD GOOD GOOD.
Got that Obama - keep it up. Keep spending money you do not have. That is GOOD GOOD GOOD. I am learning to speak Zimbabweez. They are very good at that. At this rate, we should all be speaking Zimbabweez soon.
Can we finally call the Great Depression what it really was - the Great HappyGoodTimes until the conservatives ruined it in 1937.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I don't know where you took
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:59 ET by goldbarI don't know where you took 14 years of history classes from, but if I were you, I'd get my money back.
I don't know where you get
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:06 ET by Jack BauerI don't know where you get your supercilious ignorance from, but if I were you, I'd track down my parents and check if its genetic.
If you're contention is that
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:22 ET by goldbarIf you're contention is that the republicans were the party that pulled us out of the Great Depression, I'd like some supporting facts.
If you're contention is that...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:37 ET by JWF... you are using history to push your partisan agenda, I'd like someone to smack you with a cluebat.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
"a Veteran of a 1000 psychic
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:43 ET by goldbar"a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars."
Maybe that should have read 'psychosis', because you don't make any sense at all. History is history. The facts aren't bipartisan.
An idiot thinks he can make it 1001
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:55 ET by JWFWe are not here to argue the history/ramifications/reasoning of the Great Depression.
Neither are you. You want to turn it into a partisan argument of conservatives vs god knows who. You are here like you are always here for one purpose - dump on conservatives.
Dippy Dumas: ...the recession of 1937 when the conservatives pressured...
The conservative movement started in the early 50's. You are clearly here to hammer on conservatives using history.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You're obviously out of your
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:15 ET by goldbarYou're obviously out of your league when discussing history.
BTW, would you go with new float arm assembly for my toilet or do think it's best just to put a brick in the tank and not worry about it?
Blonde? Another troll is pulling it again.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:55 ET by JWFBack in the late 1950s, most of the conservative movement could and did meet for lunch in the company dining room of Bill Buckley's family oil business
It is a striking historical coincidence that both the People's Republic of China and the modern American conservative movement were born a little over 50 years ago, the PRC in 1949 with the coming to power of Mao Zedung and modern conservatism in 1953 with the publication of Russell Kirk's masterwork, The Conservative Mind.
That giant step was taken in November of our year in 1955...
politics in the late 1950s, early 1960s, conservatives didn`t have
access to the microphones of the country.
It crossed the Canadian border in '62. But the fact is that neoconservatism was a phrase coined by the American socialist author Michael Harrington in his book The Other America (1962) to solely define his former left-wing allies.
No. I am tired of creating links. I told this troll the truth. He called me a liar. I won't take it to the forum. I take an hour of my time to put the truthy smackdown on a troll and they never show up.
I want a call Blonde.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
So, I take it you'd just be
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:58 ET by goldbarSo, I take it you'd just be going with the brick, then?
Now he is needling Blonde.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:04 ET by JWFHe came here and claimed conservatives hid Obama's birth certificate in 1937 and messed up a recovery in the Great Depression. I have proved the conservative movement was not around in 1937.
He has gone to the usual troll tactic. Needling.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You really are delusional
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:08 ET by goldbarYou really are delusional aren't you....or are you just faking it? NURSE RAAATCHETTT!!!
I will give a reserved apology to the troll goldfart
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:52 ET by JWFThere was a conservative movement among Democrats in 1937. Which he should have stated up front here on a conservative site. Not the same as conservatives today. But shocker, very very very much smarter than Democrats today. As stated elsewhere here on this page - it was conservative minded Democrats, Roosevelts own party.
The Conservative Manifesto
Josiah Bailey co-authored the Conservative Manifesto, a plan for national economic recovery during the Great Depression. Image courtesy of the North Carolina Office of Archives and History, Raleigh, NC.
In 1937, U.S. Senator Josiah Bailey of North Carolina was concerned that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his New Deal programs were leading America and North Carolina down the road to collectivism. Although he did not oppose every attempt at government intervention, Senator Bailey believed that limitations should be placed on government growth.
In 1937, the nation experienced an economic recession, and partisan lines blurred as Republicans and conservative Democrats formed a coalition to protest Roosevelt’s attempt to “pack the court.” That year, FDR placed the “responsibility for pulling the nation out of economic recession on business interests,” writes historian John Robert Moore. However, President Roosevelt offered no economic recovery plan nor lifted restrictions so that businesses could rescue a collapsing economy. In this time of economic uncertainty, Bailey fostered bi-partisan opposition to FDR’s New Deal programs. In hopes of revitalizing the national economy, reluctant New Dealers and anti-New Dealers drafted the Conservative Manifesto to serve as the blueprint for economic recovery and offer what they considered practical solutions.
The planning and writing of the manifesto were done without the knowledge of FDR. Eventually the secretive work of the bi-partisan alliance was leaked, and fearing political repercussions, many Senators denied any involvement with the creation of the Conservative Manifesto. Bailey, however, accepted responsibility.
According to Moore, the Conservative Manifesto’s ten points were as follows:
1. Immediate revision of taxes on capital gains and undistributed profits in order to free investment funds.
2. Reduced expenditures to achieve a balanced budget, and thus, to still fears deterring business expansion.
3. An end to coercion and violence in relations between capital and labor.
4. Opposition to “unnecessary” government competition with private enterprise.
5. Recognition that private investment and enterprise require a reasonable profit.
6. Safeguarding the collateral upon which credit rests.
7. Reduction of taxes, or if this proved impossible at the moment, firm assurance of no further increases.
8. Maintenance of state rights, home rule, and local self-government, except where proved definitely inadequate.
9. Economical and non-political relief to unemployed with maximum local responsibility.
10. Reliance upon the American form of government and the American system of enterprise.
Check out number 4. Universal health care. Hello, Obama. Opposition to “unnecessary” government competition with private enterprise.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I advise you to read as much
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:19 ET by goldbarI advise you to read as much as you can about FDR and the Great Depression from many different sources. The reason for the recovery will become more evident, the more you read. I'm talking books, not websites.
Who said you learned anything about the Great Depression?
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 01:51 ET by JWFOnce again, we have a troll that is spouting economic history written by a liberal instead of an economist.
Just because you deliberately misrepresented that Roosevelt's own Democrats were opposing his insane policies by referring to them using the term conservative on a conservative website that opposes liberal media bias. Just because you deliberately misled to further your partisan will, does not give you the right to tell me what to do, Dimpy Goldfart.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You're such a hoot. An
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:13 ET by Jack BauerYou're such a hoot. An uninformed hoot, but a hoot nonetheless.
75th United States Congress
Duration: January 3, 1937 – January 3, 1939
President of the Senate: John N. Garner
President pro tempore: Key Pittman
Speaker of the House: William B. Bankhead
Members:
96 Senators - Democratic majority over Reps: 59
435 Representatives - Democratic majority over Reps: 246
5 Non-voting members
Senate Majority: Democratic
Democratic (D): 76 (majority)
Republican (R): 17
Farmer-Labor (F-L): 2
Progressive (P): 1
TOTAL members: 96
House Majority: Democratic
House of Representatives
Democratic (D): 334 (majority)
Republican (R): 88
Progressive (P): 8
Farmer-Labor (F-L): 5
TOTAL members: 435
Sessions
1st: January 5, 1937 – August 21, 1937
The careful reader will note
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:49 ET by goldbarThe careful reader will note I said 'conservative', not republican. Do you know anything about history that doesn't involve cutting and pasting from websites?
I noted that doofus. The
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:01 ET by Jack BauerI noted that doofus. The careful reader will note that you indulge in sophomoric idiocy.
You might try to convince lumpens in your aquaitanance that Democrats are "conservatives" because your tiny mind just cannot process what actually happened.
That would be the way FDR, and Democrats adopting a quasi-socialist agenda ensured massive unempoyment for years after the Depression.
Sorry -- but you can't handle the truth. And one doesn't have to be careful to see that. Please feel free to cut and paste that history lesson.
Tell me how the republicans
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:36 ET by goldbarTell me how the republicans brought us out of the Great Depression.
Go ahead, make my day.
Are you suggesting that
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:26 ET by general companyWe will dig our way out of this hole by ignoring fiscal responsibility? Do you think the Fed can spend OUR money and get us out of a poor economy? Can we prosper when we force jobs off of our shores because of regulation or tax? Where has it been done?
Your partisanship is pointless, we know these policies dont work, even when your saviour uses them.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Jack, you know what they say about history
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:08 ET by R D HelmThose who ignore it, don't know it, or forget it, are condemned to repeat it.
Given the damn near carbon-copy parallels of current government actions with the actions of the government idiots who ran this country during the 1930's, I'd say we are about to live it all over again.
Only this time, we are going to see a very different outcome.
LOL-You know, in some ways, I almost envy goldbar here, as he hasn't the foggiest hint of a clue of what is actually coming our way.
I mean, he really believes that the policies of FDR are what got America out of the Great Depression. What is worse, he thinks the exact same government that got us into this mess to begin with, is going to get us out of it.
Damn, is he ever in for a major let-down.
-Dave
yea Dave I got one word for ya.... HBOMB
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:40 ET by upcountrywaterOh well maybe that's 2 words. Like that 3 letter word J-O-B-S
100 Billion for some car company, lots of car companies, get a car from someone else...
1 Billion 400 million for the F-22, Only one place to get some of those.
F-35 shall be a hanger queen...
Just flew to Oahu, looked out the window and saw the New Submarine that will be stationed in Pearl.
Carter had a sub named after him?
Subobama.. hummmm
As you know 1 nuk will stop 70% of the flow of gasoline in the good ol USA.
Ain't no come back from that..
Reagan VS Liberalism
RD == It's a typical tactic
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 04:44 ET by Jack BauerRD == It's a typical tactic of the Angry White Liberal. Make ridiculous claims about historical events.
The guy's a joke. Hence my non-response once I've laid out the facts. There's no point in me wasting my time!
Other. I follow the market
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 13:16 ET by bassndudeOther. I follow the market rather closley. What we are looking at is a simple earnings rally. 111 out of 142 earnings reports so far have beat expectations. That is not always an indicator of a recovering market. Most of those beat the estimates by cutting over head, (reducing work force for example). Not from consumer spending. The market knows this. And I look for the market to pull back of these highs in Aug.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
I agree
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:49 ET by GregEI agree. All the cutting that has taken place has created positive earnings. When companies aren't selling as much product, they must cut staff and close facilities in order to make room for profit to happen. And.........it happens. Doesn't mean any laid off employee is back to work. Their products/services must be in demand for that staffing to pick up again.
With Obama having signed all the spending, the media wants to be able to say the recession is over, and be able to naively point to Obama's policies as the savior, when they're the opposite. They tie down the economy and it grows only if it can overcome that stupidity. Also, if the media can push that we are out of recession, it will empower them and the Obama admin and Congressional liberals to talk more about tax hikes (for healthcare and cap n trade) without as much fear of the rebuttal of "you can't hike taxes during a recession" because we won't be in a recession.
Interesting eh? If we are out of recession, we're never going to hear the end of how the Socialist Dear Leader is doing it all right. Oh wait, we don't hear the end of that now, what am I thinking?
If the recession is over,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 13:38 ET by GregEIf the recession is over, it's proof how resilient the US economy is. It emerges despite the Socialist Obama. Albeit, not as quickly or as strongly, thanks to dear leader complete disdain for our nation.
Not a whole lot to add,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:38 ET by RD KingHistory repeating itself with one way worser than FDR at the helm.
"No Recovery until Nobama!!!!!" me and at least 59,934,786 other Americans.
No,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:30 ET by boomerconIt's a "dead cat bounce". Hold on tight.
p.s. y'all are giving that goldinger guy way too much oxygen. Just cut it off and leave him be...won't take long.
I voted 'other' because who
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:36 ET by bigtimerI voted 'other' because who knows.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
This is a dead cat bounce to
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:19 ET by Tom PaineThis is a dead cat bounce to drive the market up so the big boys can bail and pull the rug out. There are projections of no net new jobs being created for the next 5 years. There can be no real recovery without real jobs (not government make-work jobs)
Stock
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 03:21 ET by afuelThe stock Market is for skilled traders these days. It will bounce up and down in short range but there isn't any real value being added it is just manipulation. With the Fed auctioning off $100 billions of various term length bonds, weekly the country is doomed to massive inflation and outflow for 30+ years to pay off the newly aquired debt. Apple, IBM, RIM and Tech are not going to supply jobs or enough to help the country return to work. Many large and mid cap companies are going offshore as fast they can further taking away skilled paying jobs. When GE built steam turbines and generators they employed thousands of high paying jobs across the country, now it is but a shell of itself with equipment made off shore. Building and installing throw away solar panels isn't going to emply millions. They don't require overhauls or reapir, they just get recycled offshore and installed by minimum pay workers.
Wake Up America, Orwells 1984 is trying to get a foot hold and must be stopped.