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Should John McCain Visit ANWR to Illustrate Its Remoteness?
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Not just Yes...but HELL
June 23, 2008 - 23:55 ET by bigtimerNot just Yes...but HELL YES!
He may learn something himself if he really toured it.
My two cents...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Ted Nugent, et al.
June 24, 2008 - 10:38 ET by Dr_LibertyI'm a problem solver.
Environmentalists point out that the main problem with drilling in ANWR is that it will interfere with the caribou.
I suggest that McCain take along Ted Nugent, Bob Foulkrod, Wayne LaPierre, and Richard Machowicz.*
No caribou. No problem. Let's drill!
Problem solved. Jerky anyone?
* For good measure we could add Chuck Norris to the list. "Gun? I don't need no stinking gun?!" ... and the pile of caribou with broken necks would just keep growing and growing and growing.
<insert witty signature here>
Dr.L.... Smoked Jerky to
June 25, 2008 - 01:12 ET by bigtimerDr.L....
Smoked Jerky to-boot...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Caribou thrive despite oil industry activity
June 24, 2008 - 17:51 ET by nkviking75The Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game, who ought to know, said this about the effect of the Alaska pipeline on caribou:
In the 1970s people were concerned about the effect of the trans-Alaska
oil pipeline, expanding oil development, and increased disturbance from
use of aircraft and snowmobiles on caribou. Although there was some
displacement of caribou calving in the Prudhoe Bay oilfield, in
general, caribou have not been adversely affected by human activities
in Alaska. Pipelines and most other developments are built to allow for
caribou movements, and caribou have shown us that they can adapt to the
presence of people and machines. As human activities expand in Alaska,
the great challenge for caribou management is for man to consider the
needs of our caribou herds and ensure that they remain a visible,
healthy part of our landscape.
There's no reason to believe that drilling in ANWR would cause any more harm than the pipeline.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Caribou Jerky
June 25, 2008 - 10:11 ET by Dr_LibertyNot only do caribou figure a way to walk around the pipes, but they huddle by the pipes since the warmth of them helps to expose some of their food source.
By concentrating caribou around the pipelines, it makes 'em easier to spot and shoot.
** Ted Nugent for Secretary of the Interior!
<insert witty signature here>
I voted "No opinion," as I am not sure McCain knows where ANWR..
June 23, 2008 - 23:59 ET by R D Helm..actually is. :-O
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
LOL RD...I see our minds
June 24, 2008 - 00:03 ET by bigtimerLOL RD...I see our minds are thinking alike here!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, last I heard, McCain thinks ANWR to be "pristine wilderness"
June 24, 2008 - 00:13 ET by R D HelmEarly-onset Alzheimer's is bad enough (but the later progression is even worse.)
What else can I say?
Screwed are we come November.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
No RD... I think this is
June 24, 2008 - 00:26 ET by bigtimerNo RD...
I think this is a great idea..as long as live cameras follow...all the way through the acreage and all about ANWR, what they have and are doing for safe drilling and such...the real landscape needs to be shown...winter and summer as far as I am concerned..the whole damned area!
Without apologizing...plus talking to the workers there..let alone the majority of the Alaskans...
This will never happen though...I remember that pathetic twit Sen. Lincoln Chafeeshowing his vacation there and I about came unglued, I didn't know whether to crack up laughing or flying to DC to confront the pencil necked twerp that couldn't combat a fly with a fly swatter.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
→ bigtimer
June 24, 2008 - 00:37 ET by Cool ArrowCameras following him won't help. All they need is a shot of one caribou peacefully nibbling on a sprig of grass and the idyllic picture beomes the poster for the whole "SAVE ANWR" movement.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Show the Caribou around Prudhoe Bay!
June 24, 2008 - 05:27 ET by PopularTechActually this would be a great idea show the Caribou nibbling on grass near Prudhoe Bay and talk about how they have thrived since we started drilling. Wait we already have that picture.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
→ No kidding PopTech
June 24, 2008 - 05:36 ET by Cool ArrowVery true, the warmth of the flow in the line actually contributes to growing the herd.
But the MSM offering at the pipeline would be that of a rotting carcass in the shadow of that evil manmade contraption.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
bt, McCain doesn't get it.
June 24, 2008 - 00:38 ET by R D HelmHe has been co-opted by the tree-huggers and fern-fondlers, much like George W. Bush has.
I know that many "conservatives" are now saying McCain is coming around on this issue. I will believe it when I see it.
Sadder still is that GWB sits idly by while the Cubans and Mexicans drill the Gulf of Mexico dry. Meanwhile, many of my friends have lost their livelihoods.
Harry S. Truman would have had this problem solved in about three minutes.
But, then again, he was a real leader.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD..Not to be nit-picky
June 24, 2008 - 00:53 ET by bigtimerRD..Not to be nit-picky with you..but Pres. Bush has always been for drilling and opening up ANWR ect...McCain has always been the RINO he has since I started watching him in the Senate years and years ago ...no attention was given to the President when he made his speeches/press conferences about oil, the repubs sure didn't help much either with the exception of Inhofe msm wise...
What made me mad about the President was when he started saying the phrase our addiction to oil blah blah blah...or Katrina...I felt if he wasn't going to open up our fields then after we being at war...I was so disappointed...I know he hs to have congress, and McCain was his biggest foe on our side of the aisle...he stopped the ANWR drilling in 05...McCain did.
I will never forget it.
Ever
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
RD AMEN!!
June 24, 2008 - 07:26 ET by jefflebowskiI share the same frustration with Bush. What a tremendous disappontment he has been!
I believe ANWR stands for Another Nonused Wasted Asset! McPain is Obama Lite!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
bt and jeff, I consider our current energy predic to be a matter
June 25, 2008 - 23:36 ET by R D Helmof National Security.
There are rogue nations (one of which may very well soon be China) literally sucking our own oil right out from under us.
Harry S. Truman would have long ago sent the United States Navy out to blast the bastards straight to Mars.
In stark contrast, George W. Bush goes crawling to the Saudi's on his hands and knees, hat in hand, literally begging them to lower the price per barrel.
'nuff said.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD, I agree about national security
June 25, 2008 - 23:50 ET by jefflebowskiI wrote in my blog a few days ago that Obama telling us that we couldn't drill our way out of this oil crisis is like telling us we cannot eat our way out of being hungry. Ridiculous!
Someone sent me an email making the rounds saying that we ought to tie the price of wheat to the price of a barrel of oil. If the Saudis don't like it, let them eat sand! Maybe not a bad idea!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
RD... Well you know how I
June 25, 2008 - 23:53 ET by bigtimerRD...
Well you know how I have felt about all of this in a nutshell since you've come aboard here...
Drill Often!...Drill Everywhere!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt and jeff, at least I have ditched The Panzer for a car...
June 26, 2008 - 00:07 ET by R D Helm...that gets well over 35mpg on the highway.
LOL-At least I can now afford to actually drive to most of our local driving ranges and beat the hell out of a bucket or two of little white balls once in a while.
-Almost as good a stress reliever as my local shooting range. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
LOL... Keep on truckin'
June 26, 2008 - 00:13 ET by bigtimerLOL...
Keep on truckin' RD!
Oops you aren't as old as me...but I bet you get my drift...
Put the pedal to the metal!
Double oops..that was even older than keep on truckin'...
Well heck...Have a blast when you can and shoot away!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I voted "Yes, great idea",
June 24, 2008 - 00:03 ET by ckc1227I voted "Yes, great idea", but I'm not sure McCain is interested in illustrating ANWR's remoteness, as he is no more interested in drilling in ANWR than he is in "The Grand Canyon".
McCain should definitely go and show the truth about ANWR
June 24, 2008 - 00:05 ET by PopularTechThe whole ANWR debate is based on people not knowing the facts.
What ANWR really looks like (PDF)
ANWR Not the Frosty Paradise It's Cracked Up To Be (Townhall)
- ANWR: 19.6 million acres. Size of oil production area: 2,000 acres (about the size of an Airport) (Source)
- 10.4 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in ANWR (USGS)
- Original Prudhoe Bay estimate: 8 Billion barrels, Actual: 14 Billion barrels (to date)
- The Central Arctic Caribou Herd has grown from 3,000 to 32,000 since Prudhoe Bay production began
- 75% of Alaskans support responsible energy exploration in ANWR
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
and now, for the rest of the story....
June 24, 2008 - 14:24 ET by Giles Winterbourne"...there is a 95 percent
probability of at least 2.0 BB of economically recoverable oil and a 5-percent
probability of at least 9.4 BB. The mean or expected value is at least 5.2
BB of economically recoverable oil at $24 per barrel. (USGS - your source)
Or to put it another way "Recent assessments indicate that the 1002 area of ANWR probably holds
roughly 3.2 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil (at ~$22/barrel)
(USGS, 1998).
By contrast, the United States uses more than 19 million barrels per day
(DOE, 2000a),
which is about 7 billion barrels per year. Spread over many years of production,
ANWR oil would not significantly increase available oil resources, nor would it
greatly reduce the need for imported oil." (Leahy)
"The coastal plain comprises only 10 percent of the Arctic Refuge. Yet from May to July, it
is
the center of biological activity on the Refuge. For centuries, animals from the Porcupine
caribou herd have used the coastal tundra to calve, obtain nourishment, avoid insects, and escape
predators."
"Muskoxen in the Arctic Refuge are vulnerable to disturbance
from activities associated with petroleum exploration and extraction because of
their year-round residency, their small population numbers and their need to
conserve energy for the 9 months of winter if they are to successfully
reproduce." ( Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain
Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries)
"The resolution in establishing the Commission sets out the important
nuitritional, cultural and spiritual needs of the people which are by the
Porcupine Caribou Herd, and cites article I of both the International Covenant
on Civil and Political Rights, and the InternationalConvenant on Economic,
Social and Cultural Rights, which reads in part: "In no case may a people be
deprived of its own means of subsistence."" (ANWR@UConn)
"75% of Alaskans..."(uncited) But it is federal land so Californians, Washingtonians, and all citizens have an equal say.
Not to mention the obvious bias of the other two resources....
So you agree "Not to
June 24, 2008 - 16:10 ET by Dan The Man 2So you agree "Not to mention the obvious bias" your resources are etreemely biaaed? One big problem is your sources are out of date on teh technologies available today. It is just recently taht more oil became recoverable from oil sands. I also fail to see that a very small portion of ANWAR would affect teh bigger picture and if you had looked at what teh prior development of oil resources ahs done for Alaska wild life you would be ashamed of yourself. But being a Dem means never having to be ashamed you only make excuses and move teh goalposts.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Wow, that's real research.
June 24, 2008 - 18:01 ET by Giles Winterbourne'etreemely biaaed?' Example? You have better research?
'..fail to see that a very small portion of ANWAR would affect teh bigger picture..' doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Read through the cites and resources for full descriptions of the environmental, wildlife, and human effects from exploration and drilling.
'taht more oil became recoverable from oil sand' Wow, that's real research.
'sources are out of date on teh technologies available today' So source some.
Yes Giles Biased
June 25, 2008 - 08:22 ET by PopularTechYou linked to Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy AKA BIASED! Yes please read the cites:
ANWR Not the Frosty Paradise It's Cracked Up To Be (Townhall)
Alaska Pipeline Doomsayings Revisited (Business & Media Institute)
Myths About Drilling in ANWR (FOX News)
The Caribou And Alaskan Oil (PERC)
Myth: The World Is Running Out of Oil (Video) (5min) (John Stossel, 20/20)
- 175 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the Oil Sands of Alberta, Canada (AGS)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
only opinion pieces
June 25, 2008 - 08:50 ET by Giles WinterbourneInteresting that you seem unable to cite actual data - only opinion pieces that would obviously cherry-pick to best prove their point.
Stossel, Fox, Townhall, BMI? c'mon, you cite yourself as a fount of knowledge and resources and offer up that sort of dreck to attempt to prove a point? Meh,.
Yep the ANWR coastal plain is really a paradise
June 25, 2008 - 10:08 ET by PopularTechYou should vacation there sometime - great weather.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I can believe my eyes...
June 24, 2008 - 18:53 ET by alaskaalThe USGS made the following estimates in 1998 of technically recoverable oil and natural gas liquids from the ANWR Coastal Plain:
There is a 95 percent probability (a 19 in 20 chance) that at least 5.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
There is a 5 percent probability (a 1 in 20 chance) that at least 16 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
The mean (expected value) estimate is 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil.
Since I work in Prudhoe Bay I get to see for myself the impact of the oilfield on the environment and the wildlife. Just today I saw a musk ox and a ton of caribou on a short drive to the Kuparuk River today. The caribou love the roads since they are a high point and the breeze up there keeps the mosquitos away. None of the wildlife I have witnessed seem negatively impacted by our presence here. I did see a grizz take two muskox calves and HE had a huge impact on them.
Let's add McCain to the ton of celebs that we have had come up here and look at the scruffy desert. Then let's drill. Funny how this drilling is a "states rights" issue for all states but Alaska. Butt out of our business and let us develop the resources that are ours to develop.
alaskaal...
June 24, 2008 - 19:27 ET by Clear thinker"Butt out of our business and let us develop the resources that are ours to develop"
Amen!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Giles, you are a font of
June 24, 2008 - 19:16 ET by NL207Giles, you are a font of misinformation.
You continue to quote 'median' values as the likely outcome of probability functions. You know full well this is incorrect. The MEAN value represents the average result of any probability function.
Then there is this gem: "roughly 3.2 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil (at ~$22/barrel)"
Have you notriced that oil is trading at $100+ per bbl lately? And you don't think that changes the payoff matrix any?
Chuck Schumer claimed not all that long ago that Saudi Arabia increasing prioduction 1 million bbls per day would reduce gas 62 cents a gallon. ANWR is estimated to produce 780,000-860,000 bbls per day in 2024 were it developed now, almost the 1 million Schumer quoted. Now, Senator Leahy says ANWR would have no significant effect ... Either Chuck Schumer or Leaky Leahy is a liar. You choose.
5.7 billion barrels for the 95-percent probability
June 24, 2008 - 20:16 ET by Giles WinterbourneProbability of finding x# barrels of oil:
"In the mean oil resource case, the total volume of technically recoverable crude oil projected to be found within the coastal plain area is 10.4 billion barrels, compared to 5.7 billion barrels for the 95-percent probability estimate, and 16.0 billion barrels for the 5-percent probability estimate. " EIA - Analysis of Crude Oil Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge May 2008
Yeah 3/4 is almost 1 also - in real rough rounding. But it seems to suit your needs...
So that 3/4-8/10 of a million is literally a drop in the bucket.
'The opening of ANWR to development in 2005 results
in the initiation of ANWR oil production in 2015. Oil
production from ANWR grows to a peak of 780,000
barrels per day in 2024, then declines to 650,000 barrels
per day in 2030. In the reference case, with no oil
production from ANWR, Alaska’s total oil production
grows to 900,000 barrels per day in 2014 and then
declines to 270,000 barrels per day in 2030. In the
ANWR case, Alaskan oil production rises to 1.4 million
barrels per day in 2021 and then falls to 930,000
barrels per day in 2030 (Figure 89).
World oil prices are slightly lower in the ANWR case
than in the reference case. The largest difference is
79 cents per barrel in 2024 (in 2004 dollars), when
ANWR oil production is at its peak. After 2024, as
ANWR production declines, the difference narrows to
68 cents per barrel in 2030.." DOE- Annual Energy Outlook 2006
With Projections to 2030
FYI at oil price hearings yesterday and today (C-SPAN) industry analysts quoting 30-50% of balance above $35 is from 'paper barrel' speculation.
Giles Mental Illness - Mean Value of 10.4 billion barrels!
June 25, 2008 - 08:31 ET by PopularTechI realize this is hard for you to accept and you are desperate to spread more propaganda but anyone can read the source for themselves and clearly see how you are trying to low ball the figure when the USGS clearly states a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels.
So lets use your other numbers for a minute, are you telling me that adding up to 780,000 barrels per day by 2024 would be a bad idea? What sort of mental illness supports your lack of logic? Could it be your liberalism? Are you so far gone that you think we should only bring on line oil fields the size of the ones in Saudi Arabia? By that thinking we would have run out of oil a long time ago.
Giles please tell me what the minimum size of an oil field can be before it is brought online?
In case you missed it we want to bring ALL potential fields and locations online. No one of them is going to solve the problem by itself.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
3/4 of a million - out of 20.7 million
June 25, 2008 - 09:03 ET by Giles WinterbourneLess than 5% - you can improve your fleet mileage that much by keeping the right amount of air in the tires. Or plan route more carefully. Or drive with a lighter foot.
Or meet higher CAFE standards sooner.
And mean is fine, but remember that that range is based on probability. To accept the 10.4 is expecting a 50% chance that they will get that number. Not to mention the 5% numbers that sometimes get touted without a qualifier.So, the 95% number is a far better one to make plans and policy with.
Ahhh, typical RW argument - go for insulting. Works better than facts.
And *POOF*, Giles falls for
June 25, 2008 - 09:11 ET by bassndudeAnd *POOF*, Giles falls for another myth and skirts the question all around. Reading comprehension is not in your skill list, is it Giles?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Previously cited:
June 25, 2008 - 09:37 ET by Giles WinterbournePreviously cited:
"In the mean oil resource case, the total volume of technically
recoverable crude oil projected to be found within the coastal plain
area is 10.4 billion barrels, compared to 5.7 billion barrels for the 95-percent probability estimate, and 16.0 billion barrels for the 5-percent probability estimate. " EIA - Analysis of Crude Oil Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge May 2008
So we should not go get it?
June 25, 2008 - 09:40 ET by bassndudeSo we should not go get it? By any form of reasoning, just the 5.7 billion is better than 0. Even you should understand that.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Giles failed Math
June 25, 2008 - 09:56 ET by PopularTechHis whole argument is that ANWR is not big enough to replace all the oil we use so therefore we should not bother. Maybe we should shut down all the fields that cannot do that either, oops we would have to shut down over 99% of them.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Math is not the only thing
June 25, 2008 - 10:13 ET by bassndudeMath is not the only thing he failed. Logic is one of his weak points, also.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Don't be asinine.
June 25, 2008 - 10:37 ET by Giles WinterbourneThat is not my argument and you know that.
For a possible 760,000 bbls a day in 2025 (and that is the peak year) that is less than 5% of our current daily usage and might reduce the price of gasoline by 62 cents, you're seemingly willing to chance multiple environmental issues and devalue the lives of two indigenous groups.
And since you're so intent on using the mean, we're talking about a 50% chance that those numbers could be accurate...
5% that can be conserved far easier. With both economic and environmental benefits both locally and globally.
You are not going to
June 25, 2008 - 10:50 ET by bassndudeYou are not going to conserve your way to 760,000 bbls a day. That is a total myth, or lie. Take your pick. And I will take that 62 cents, and raise you off shore dirlling in new areas. You know, the areas that will not be contested in court untill the lease is about over and there is no time to drill. That kind of lease. You are aware that that is the reason they are not drilling in the current leases off shore? Of course you are. YOUR well informed...
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Giles is full of lies
June 25, 2008 - 10:59 ET by PopularTechAll wishful thinkers, naive idealists AKA liberals cannot understand reality so they make up lies.
Every place we drill will bring prices down more and more. Like I said Giles cannot add.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Giles' Logic: "ANWR will only lower prices 62 cents per gallon"
June 25, 2008 - 10:55 ET by PopularTechWho doesn't want gas reduced by 62 cents a gallon?
Please, please Giles stop helping make the case for ANWR. This the funniest conversation I have ever had with a liberal.AHAHAHAHA!
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
can you parse out your argument better?
June 25, 2008 - 12:38 ET by Giles WinterbourneSo, since you keep referring to my 'reading comprehension', perhaps you can parse out your argument better:
What I am getting from your statements is that it would be stupid to work toward conserving a finite resource now since there is a 50% possibility of getting, for a few years, ~5% more (at our current consumption) of that resource in 15 or 16 years?
Or since you also don't like my math: Working toward saving 62 cents a gallon now by, oh say:
Drive Sensibly
Aggressive
driving (speeding, rapid acceleration and braking) wastes gas. It can
lower your gas mileage by 33 percent at highway speeds and by 5 percent
around town. Sensible driving is also safer for you and others, so you
may save more than gas money.
Fuel Economy Benefit:
5-33%
Equivalent Gasoline Savings:
$0.20-$1.35/gallon
Based on $4.08/gallon Fueleconomy.gov
is stupid because in 15 years we may have more gas?
Jeez, how much would simple conservation measures save us in the next 15 years?
And that is without even looking at the human, environmental, wildlife costs incurred....
Or looking into why oil companies are not pursuing using the leases they alread hold.
Or with that long term (15 years) look, developments in more sustainable fuels, better road design and traffic controls, vehicle design....
First, it is not proven that
June 25, 2008 - 12:56 ET by bassndudeFirst, it is not proven that it is a finite resource. Latest research points that oil in not a fossel fuel, but is constantly renewed deep in the earth. That is why old oil fields are currently producing oil again.
What you are getting from me, again, goes back to reading comperhenson. Never said stupid. What is stupid is not to go after known resources. If the application process was streamlined, we could see oil from ANWAR in less than 5 years, perhaps sooner. With the new technologies, we can drill very deep wells in 20 days now. Set up and enviro regs are what slows down the process. Not the drilling.
What I get from you is we can conserve our way out of this mess. Nobody belives that. NObody. Not even the ones that started the rumor. Why should we not get it now, and even if it is 10 years, had we done it earlier, instead of Clinton vetoing it, we would have it online today.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Great sources!
June 25, 2008 - 14:01 ET by Giles Winterbourne/Sarc off>
Lots of if and could. Not to mention absolute statements with no backing or support.
"Dealing with the challenge of the energy crisis requires more than
political tomfoolery that the Republican president and the Republican
candidate have so far mustered. The solution rests in the nearer future
much more on government-supported energy conservation. On their own,
Americans are beginning to drive less. They should be enabled to do so
in more efficient vehicles and encouraged to otherwise modify the
profligate ways energy is consumed in this country. That actually would
bring costs down."
"The Congress finds that -
(1)
the United States has survived a period of
energy shortage and has made significant progress toward improving
energy efficiency in all sectors of the economy;
(2)
effective measures must continue to be taken by
the Federal Government and other users and suppliers of energy to
control the rate of growth of demand for energy and the efficiency of
its use;
(3)
the continuation of this effort will permit the
United States to become increasingly independent of the world oil
market, less vulnerable to interruption of foreign oil supplies, and
more able to provide energy to meet future needs; and
(4)
all sectors of the economy of the United States
should continue to reduce significantly the demand for nonrenewable
energy resources such as oil and natural gas by implementing and
maintaining effective conservation measures for the efficient use of
these and other energy sources.
(b) Statement of purposes
The purposes of this chapter are to provide for
the regulation of interstate commerce, to reduce the growth in demand
for energy in the United States, and to conserve nonrenewable energy
resources produced in this Nation and elsewhere, without inhibiting
beneficial economic growth
National Energy Conservation Policy Act"
"EPAct recognizes
that we must diversify America’s
energy supply and reduce our dependence
on foreign sources of energy;
increase energy efficiency and conservation
in our homes and businesses;
improve the energy efficiency of our
vehicles; and modernize our national
energy infrastructure. To meet our
objectives, America will rely on one of
her greatest assets – the talent and
ingenuity of our scientists and engineers."
"The Sierra Club believes that in the short and long term, energy conservation should be
a stronger national and international goal and that it can be achieved with little, if
any, meaningful change in material standards of living. Indeed, stress upon conservation
holds significant promise of improving the quality of life for everyone. Further,
conservation-induced lower energy demands is a prerequisite to substantial reliance on
renewable resources.
The Sierra Club recognizes that as the petroleum age quickly closes and the transition
to renewable resources is made, easily transportable vehicular fuels will be a necessity,
but not which will require degrading our air, inland water, or continental shelf waters"
AHAHAHA! Giles cites the Sierra Club
June 25, 2008 - 19:56 ET by PopularTechGood one Giles, I almost thought you were looking for objective sources.
What part of economics do you not understand? If the prices go up fuel-efficient cars will be used automatically, if they go down less so. But see your socialistic fascist ideals want to tell us how to live our lives.
Myths About Breaking Our Foreign Oil Habit (The Washington Post)
There are plenty of sources covering the Abiotic Theory:
Beyond the 'peak-oil production' hoax (WorldNetDaily)
Discovery backs theory oil not 'fossil fuel' (WorldNetDaily)
Doom-and-gloomers say we’re near tapped-out of oil, Rubbish (National Review Online)
Fuel's Paradise (Wired)
Petroleum From Decay? Maybe Not, Study Says (The New York Times)
Sustainable oil? (WorldNetDaily)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Math class much?
June 26, 2008 - 08:23 ET by Giles Winterbourne'If the prices go up fuel-efficient cars will be used automatically'
At what price and mileage per year does buying a new car make sense when moving from $3 to $5 a gallon gas?
I see we're off on the socialist/fascist rant. That's always good for discussion. Thanks for trying.
And really, WND as a reliable source? Guess it goes with the loony-bin theories that are being cited....
More Giles fabrications
June 26, 2008 - 20:16 ET by PopularTechI said when gas prices go up, I never said from $3-$5 per gallon. The actual price is determined per person and per situation exactly when it is advantageous to get a more fuel efficient car and it does not mean buying a "new" car just one that is more fuel efficient than what they have.
Yes Giles you cannot do math, you are incapable of adding up the savings of drilling in multiple locations at one time, including ANWR.
Your government solutions to problems mantra is socialism, your trying to dictate how we should live our lives is fascism. No rant just your position.
Yes WND is just as good as the Sierra Club. But please ignore the New York Times and Wired articles.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
our government
June 27, 2008 - 10:21 ET by Giles Winterbourne'Your government solutions to problems mantra is socialism, your trying
to dictate how we should live our lives is fascism. No rant just your
position.'
Yeah, like building codes requiring insulation, working conditions/safety, universal suffarage, food safety, traffic laws, bank regulation. 'Market forces' are after the fact, btw. Helps the guy in the hospital with Samonella that the grower will look for better procedures so he can stay in business.... 'Joe Conservative'.
'Your government' actually is our government. And while it took years of false thinktank work in attempts to demonize liberals, all it took was 7 yrs of Bush to show how 'well' the theory worked. Kind of expensive in terms of personal liberties, dead and injured soldiers and civilians, weakened economy, world view, but a lesson well learned.
Ah, WND = Sierra club. That helps explain the 'selection' criteria for those lists. Pat Boone, the acknowledged expert on global warming (but wait, he's a " descendant of the legendary pioneer Daniel Boone", so he must be an expert!), recommending CFact in WND? Gotta get it on the list!
Giles Socialism or Capitalism?
June 27, 2008 - 23:35 ET by PopularTechSimple question. I'll ignore the Bush propaganda for now.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Seems your taking a poli sci class
June 28, 2008 - 08:44 ET by Giles Winterbournewould help you see the spectrum of possibilies.
And maybe stop thinking Ayn Rand is a philosopher.
Ayn Rand (1905-1982), philosopher AND a genius
July 18, 2008 - 02:41 ET by UnsaneAnd maybe stop thinking Ayn Rand is a philosopher. Ayn Rand was a philosopher AND a genius.
If I were king for a day, I'd prohibit you from flapping your Socialist yap here until you have read Atlas Shrugged and submitted, for my approval, a dissertation on how you will apply the lessons learned within to governance. I'd do this less on the expectation that you would do it and more on the expectation of insane entertainment value as you explode into a fit of uncontrollable rage before you hit page 500.
Whoever casts a vote for Barack Obama is nothing more than a common thief. Whoever fails to vote against him is nothing more than a moral coward.
Giles
June 26, 2008 - 08:39 ET by bassndude"The Congress Finds..." You can read that "The Liberals find..." I spoke with my Congress woman yesterday afternoon. Seems that a Republican cannot even get a bill onto the floor, to be heard. The "Democratic"(?) leadership will not consider letting Republican or Conservitive voices be heard. The statements I made, above, are easly looked up. I did not know I was dealing with an information deprived individual, incapable of searching out their own information. Or maybe I did. Seems all you do is reguratate the clap-trap he is fed by his handlers. I dont care if you take my word for it or not. I have my doubts about anyone that gets all of his information of the internet. Tell me, have you ever read the book, "On The Little Bighorn"? Or do you just quote off the internet?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
short list of bills introduced by republicans 2008
June 26, 2008 - 14:10 ET by Giles Winterbourne'Republican cannot even get a bill onto the floor, to be heard.'
FYI: Thomas.gov
Title: To direct the Secretary of the Interior to establish
and implement a competitive oil and gas leasing program that will
result in an environmentally sound program for the exploration,
development, and production of the oil and gas resources of the Coastal
Plain of Alaska, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Young, Don [AK]
(introduced 5/21/2008)
Sponsor: Rep Akin, W. Todd [MO-2]
(introduced 1/29/2008)
Sponsor: Rep Akin, W. Todd [MO-2]
(introduced 4/2/2008)
Sponsor: Rep Akin, W. Todd [MO-2]
(introduced 6/9/2008)
A joint resolution waiving certain provisions of the Trade Act of 1974
relating to the appointment of a Deputy United States Trade
Representative.
Sponsor: Sen Grassley, Chuck [IA]
(introduced 6/5/2008)
Sponsor: Rep Myrick, Sue Wilkins [NC-9]
(introduced 4/3/2008)
Took longer to copy paste than to find these, and many more, bills
introduced in 2008 by Republicans.
That is why citing a source for your
(insert appropriate adjective) assertions is important. Got credibility
much? Or much less now?
'I did not know I was dealing with an information deprived individual, incapable of searching out their own information.'
You are making assertations with no corroborating evidence, assuming antedotal comments will be accepted with no verification of proof of credibility. It really isn't my job to verify your comments.
'Seems all you do is reguratate the clap-trap he is fed by his handlers' Might want to rework that sentence for better sense.
And which ones were voted
June 26, 2008 - 14:13 ET by bassndudeAnd which ones were voted on?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
ahh, move the goalposts time
June 26, 2008 - 16:47 ET by Giles Winterbourne'Republican cannot even get a bill onto the floor, to be heard.'
Those were 'heard' and acted upon in the last few months.
thomas.gov lists all the bills and their current status. You might want to go back to your source and ask why she said that.
Giles doesn't like the Constitution prefers Fascism
June 25, 2008 - 19:55 ET by PopularTechHey Giles, that is great you go conserve (since you are free to do so) while the rest of us choose for ourselves how and what we drive. So long as the Constitution exists fascists like you cannot tell us what to do.
Oh please don't start with the leasing propaganda. All you have are lies:
- 2.3% of the Outer Continental Shelf is under lease (WSJ)
- 0.46% of the Outer Continental Shelf is producing oil (WSJ)
- Federal law stipulates that an oil company must sink a producing well within 10 years or lose the lease (WSJ)
The 'Idle' Oil Field Fallacy (The Wall Street Journal)
Giles is like a one stop shop for lies and propaganda.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
"Giles is like a one stop
June 25, 2008 - 20:05 ET by Clear thinker"Giles is like a one stop shop for lies and propaganda."
PT... Giles is a liberal, so this should be expected. And for those of you that may think I'm being petty, too bad. Lies and propaganda is exactly what I see coming from liberals. All for the greater glory of their cause of course.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
You obviously didn't study
June 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by NL207You obviously didn't study any economics in your acedemnic career. The effect of a 5% supply variation on a market that is critical cannot be overestimated.
Try applying the supply and demand model to a commodity with inelastiocs supply and demand like oil. These folks did. What does the analysis say about price movement in response to changes in supply or demand? Volatile, isn't it?
Gioven this, it is simply wrong to assume a 5% increase or decrease in supply is insignificant.
More lies from Giles about ANWR
June 25, 2008 - 08:16 ET by PopularTechGiles I linked to the source which CLEARLY says:
"The total quantity of technically recoverable oil within the entire assessment area is estimated to be between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels... , with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels."
The Caribou And Alaskan Oil (PERC)
"Oil exploration since 1968 around Prudhoe Bay on the North Slope does not seem to have negatively affected the Central Arctic caribou herd. And there is little evidence that the Porcupine herd, which journeys through the area proposed for oil drilling in ANWR, will suffer harm."
No one is saying ANWR will completely solve the problem but to say it will have no effect is laughable. That is like saying Prudhoe bay had no effect and was not needed.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
not citing any resource for their contention
June 25, 2008 - 09:24 ET by Giles WinterbourneThe Perc site is offering an opinion, not citing any resource for their contention '..there is little evidence.. ' then goes on to refer to 'Porcupine herd, which journeys through the area proposed for oil drilling' when the reality is that area is vitally important to their success, being a part of their calving area. Typical of citing an opinion source rather than data that has been carefully gathered.
"The Refuge coastal plain is very important to calving success and calf survival in the Porcupine caribou herd. There are two main reasons for this. First, fewer brown bears, wolves, and golden eagles live on the coastal plain than in the adjacent foothills and mountains. As a result, the newborn calves have a better chance to survive their first week, until they become strong enough to outrun their pursuers.
The Refuge coastal plain also provides an abundance of plant species preferred by caribou. Nutrition is very important to the pregnant and nursing cows, particularly after the long winter. The timing of snow melt and plant "green up" on the coastal plain coincides with their calving period. This gives the new mothers access to the most nutritious food when it is most important for their health and the proper development of nursing calves.
The entire Porcupine caribou herd and up to a third of the Central Arctic herd use the Refuge coastal plain when calving is completed. This essential area contains forage and a variety of habitats that provide insect relief, including the coast, uplands, ice fields, rocky slopes, and gravel bars.
Their annual visit to the Refuge coastal plain brings new life and vitality to the caribou. It is an important part of their life cycle. The coastal plain provides the caribou vital nourishment and a better chance of avoiding predators and insects. This relationship is part of the unaltered system that makes the Arctic Refuge such a wondrous place. "(Arctic FWS)
"In the mean oil resource case, the total volume of technically
recoverable crude oil projected to be found within the coastal plain
area is 10.4 billion barrels, compared to 5.7 billion barrels for the 95-percent probability estimate, and 16.0 billion barrels for the 5-percent probability estimate. " EIA - Analysis of Crude Oil Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge May 2008
Yeah 3/4 is almost 1 also - in real rough rounding. But it seems to suit your needs...
So that 3/4-8/10 of a million is literally a drop in the bucket.
'The opening of ANWR to development in 2005 results
in the initiation of ANWR oil production in 2015. Oil
production from ANWR grows to a peak of 780,000
barrels per day in 2024, then declines to 650,000 barrels
per day in 2030. In the reference case, with no oil
production from ANWR, Alaska’s total oil production
gr