Why Liberals Do What They Do

Photo of hydrodynDM.

Why Liberals do what they do.

I decided I would try to condense the liberal view into a single core belief and a single core attitude. The thinking here is, given any topic, the typical liberal view should follow naturally from these. I’m sure others have done something like this and done it with more thought and effort than I, but I’ll go ahead and give it a shot.

I’ll first start by presenting the “Core Belief” and the accompanying views that follow from it in a pseudo-math format because, well, I’m a geek. Then I’ll talk about the “Core Attitude”. Please note, that this is just a little exercise on my part. I don’t really mean to suggest that the motivations, beliefs and attitudes of real life individuals can be codified in the way that I’m doing here. So take it for what it’s worth.

Also, my use of the term “typical liberal” is meant in a broad sense in two ways. First, I’m not in any real position to differentiate between classical liberals, modern liberals, social liberals, progressives or whatever, so I won’t even try. You can take my meaning of “liberal” to be defined by the kinds of example I use to represent the “typical liberal” point of view. Second, I don’t mean “typical” in a condescending way (though, the way I present liberal views probably come across as condescending and somewhat cartoonish). I’m just acknowledging that any given person who considers themselves a liberal might not hold to all of the view points I ascribe to them. So take “typical liberal” to mean something like “theoretical person who holds all of the beliefs typically ascribed to liberals”.

And finally, even though I generally take a conservative view on most topics, don’t make the assumption that I disagree with all of the views I ascribe to the “typical liberal”. So here goes…

Core Belief: No person or group is inherently better than any other person or group, regardless of their actions or inactions.

I take this as the fundamental belief from which the typical liberal derives all (or most) of his views. Some examples:

View 1: People and/or groups should work towards maintaining an equality of wealth, power, influence, education, opportunities, etc...

Kind of the obvious one. The thinking is that since all people are equal, regardless of what they’ve done or not done in life, they should have the same benefits and privileges as everyone else. So we get the liberal tendency to favor things like government entitlement programs, affirmative action, and universal health care. Why prisoners are afforded benefits like cable TV and college educations. Basically, it accounts for their generally positive view of socialistic systems which seem (at least in their idealized forms) to exemplify this view.

View 2: People or groups that have more wealth, power, influence, opportunities, etc… than others should have those advantages removed or minimized.

I think of this as the “life is unfair so we should fix it” view. The wealthy and powerful live a life that goes counter to the Core Belief. Since no person is better than any other, no person should live a better life than any other person. With this we have the liberal obsession with class warfare and taxing the rich, their support of unions, the tendency to attack and demean white male Christians (who are viewed as unfairly privileged in our society) and the disdain they have for successful businesses and capitalism in general (which is viewed as an inherently unfair system).

This view also accounts for the liberal love of the United Nations. Rather than acting unilaterally in exercising its power and influence, they would prefer that the U.S. work through the U.N. – which amounts to the U.S. giving up some of its power.

View 3: People or groups might do things that appear to be “inappropriate”, “bad” or even “criminal”, but this is not due to any inherent flaw or failing on their part. Rather, it is the result of external factors or forces that they have no control over.

Since no person is better than anyone else, behavior that leads to negative consequences has to be viewed as the result of something outside of the person’s control. This accounts for their view that the poor are poor due to no fault of their own. This is the view exemplified by statements like “Most people are just a paycheck away from living on the street if bad luck finds them”. It also explains their tendency to act as apologists for criminals. “They aren’t bad people”, the liberal says, “society made them that way”. We also get gems like “Islamic extremists want to kill us because we made them that way” and “The Mexican crowd that booed Ms. USA didn’t do it because they were acting like jerks; they did it because of U.S. policy”.

It also explains why liberals are so quick to label character flaws as “diseases” or to suggest that certain socially unacceptable forms of behavior are genetic in origin. Both of these views excuse the individual since they represent forces beyond the individual’s control. So now, children aren’t undisciplined (a fault of both the parent and child) they have ADD. People are born as homosexuals instead of choosing their lifestyle. Overweight individuals have a genetic predisposition to gaining weight rather than choosing an unhealthy lifestyle. Same goes with alcoholics and those who abuse drugs.

View 4: Differences between people or groups should be downplayed or dismissed, particularly if the differences tend to place a privileged person or group in a positive light or an underprivileged person or group in a negative light.

This follows from the Core Belief since differences can and often are used to suggest that one person or group might, in some way, be better than another. From this we have the idea that primary schools should discourage competitive sports and place less emphasis on grades since each emphasizes the differences between students – winners and loser, those who do well in class and those who don’t. It’s this view that got Larry Summers fired as President of Harvard for merely suggesting that there might be non-social (i.e. innate) factors that account for the dominance of men (a privileged group) over women (an underprivileged group) in science and engineering. It’s also why the authors of The Bell Curve where dismissed by many as racists for suggesting that there are differences in average IQ between different racial groups.

Those who make the mistake of pointing out differences between groups are often labeled as sexists, racists, homophobes, etc… The habit of labeling people with these kinds of terms doesn’t usually stem from an objective consideration of a person’s words or actions, but from the Core Belief. “If you have the audacity to point out a difference between your group and mine – a difference which might make my group look bad - you’re undermining the idea that nobody is better than anyone else and that makes you a (racist, sexist, etc…)”. The liberal then might attempt to justify the accusation after the fact, but this is an after thought and of secondary importance.

~View 4: Differences between people or groups should be pointed out or emphasized, particularly if the differences tend to place a privileged person or group in a negative light or an underprivileged person or group in a positive light.

This is just the flip side to View 4. Again, the idea is ultimately tied to the Core Belief. By propping up underprivileged people or groups or breaking down privileged ones, an attempt is made to show that, despite appearances, no person or group is better than any other.

Consequently, it’s OK to point out (over and over and over again) that Nancy Pelosi is the first female Speaker of the House or that Barack Obama could, potentially, be the first African-American president (never mind that he’s only partly black). It also explains why the race, nationality or religion of criminal suspects tends to be mentioned in news stories in cases where the suspect is white or affluent or, as a specific example, if the person is someone of standing in the Christian community, but is sometimes ignored when the suspect is part of an underprivileged group. (Note: yes, I am assuming major media outlets are dominated by liberals and that liberalism affects how they present the news).

Notice that View 4 and ~View 4 seem to contradict one another (the tilde notation - which is used to represent “not” – is just my gimmick for pointing this out). However, in light of the Core Belief, there is no real contradiction. The problem, I think, is in the liberal tendency to not acknowledge the real motivation behind the double standards they use. Statements from liberals like “Skin color and sexual orientation don’t matter” are noble but actually confuse the issue. A more accurate (and consistent) statement should be “Skin color and sexual orientation don’t matter, unless they make a minority class look good or a privileged class look bad.”

View 5: Judgments about people or groups should be downplayed or dismissed, particularly if the judgments tend to place a privileged person or group in a positive light or an underprivileged person or group in a negative light.

This view explains why liberals tend to be moral relativists. If the liberal can’t dismiss what is generally accepted as bad behavior (View 3) or can’t minimize some perceived difference (View 4), he dismisses the criticism of the behavior. “Sure they might stone women to death for adultery in their society, but who are we to judge them?”

It also explains why liberals are typically hostile towards religions like Christianity. Judgments about “right” and “wrong” are anathema to liberals. The suggestion that some people are judged to be better than others and that this decision comes from a supreme being is the antithesis of the Core Belief. It also, I think, explains why liberals tend to favor unconventional, nonjudgmental “religions” of the “I’m OK, you’re OK, we are all one thing and everyone and everything is God” variety.

~View 5: Judgments about people or groups should be made, particularly if the judgments tend to place a privileged person or group in a negative light or an underprivileged person or group in a positive light.

As with ~View 4, this is the flip side to View 5 and also accounts for the double standard used by liberals in deciding what is acceptable and what is not. Again, it’s an attempt to lift up the underprivileged and knock down the privileged in accordance with the Core Belief. From this, you get the fact that liberal speakers are welcome by liberals on university campuses but conservative speakers are shunned since they are judged to be too controversial. Similarly, “The Vagina Monologues” is somehow seen as important to women’s causes, but the satirical “Penis Monologues” earns two students probation at Roger Williams University. (Note: yes, I am assuming that the administrations, faculties and student bodies of most colleges and universities are dominated by liberals).

I think this view also accounts for the general “blame America first” attitude that many liberals seem to display. It isn’t so much about hating America as it is about hating the fact that the United States is the most powerful (and, so, most privileged) nation on the planet. Consequently, they tend to judge America’s actions harshly while ignoring the inhumane policies of other nations. Again, the double standard makes sense in light of the Core Belief. It isn’t so much the act as it is the status (privileged or not) of the group performing the act. To praise the U.S. (a privileged group) would amount to suggesting that the U.S. is, in some sense, better than other countries. This violates the Core Belief. It also explains why so many liberals tend to reject or have contempt for shows of patriotism.

Core Belief – Extreme Form: No living organism or group of living organisms is better than any other living organism or group of living organisms.

View 6: Other life forms have as much, if not more, right to this planet than we do.

This accounts for the form of environmentalism that liberals typically subscribe to – that animals should be treated just like humans (and so shouldn’t be hunted or used by humans) and that industry should never ever interfere or disrupt any habitat in any way. Taken to its extreme (in combination with View 2) humans are viewed as the privileged group and so should be brought down a peg or two. This justifies (for some extreme liberals) the destruction of homes, vehicles and machinery that are seen as encroaching on nature.

Comment on Views: There is some overlap between these views. For example, the distinction between View 2, ~View 4 and ~View 5 is kind of fuzzy. Also, despite the way I presented them, I don’t mean to really suggest that these views are like corollaries, independently derived from the Core Belief. On top of that, the view point adopted by a typical liberal regarding any give topic might end up being some mix of these views or (I contend, for the purposes of this exercise) some other view which is consistent with the Core Belief.

As an example, liberals like to point out that Americans are often ignorant of and show little interest in other cultures. This, presumably, is a failing on our part. This attitude could be seen as an attempt to prop up the importance of other cultures (~View 5) while, at the same time, taking a dig at the U.S. (View 2 and/or ~View 5 again).

As a second example, liberals have no problem portraying Catholicism as oppressive, but aren’t much interested in criticizing the draconian practices of some other religions. An apparent inconsistency - but not to the liberal. Not only can we not judge other cultures (View 5) since they might live under repressive conditions (View 3) as a result of American interference in their part of the world (~View 5) but we should condemn Catholics for being judgmental (~View 5 again).

As a final example, liberals seem oddly silent when it comes to criticizing certain forms or rap or hip-hop which clearly objectify women, place an emphasis on materialism and glorify criminal behavior. The reason? Rappers are just expressing views developed as a result of growing up under harsh conditions (View 3) and by the way, who are we to judge them (View 5)?

And now on to the second ingredient…

Core Attitude: It’s a sign of intelligence to question and/or reject established beliefs, ideas, views, morals and attitudes.

I included this “attitude” because the Core Believe alone (and the views derived from it) didn’t seem to fully account for, well, the attitude that I’ve come to associate with liberals. First I should clarify what I mean by the “Core Attitude”. The kind of questioning and rejection I’m talking about is not the kind that’s an integral part of research and scholarly study. I’m talking about the kind of knee-jerk reaction that most teenagers seem to display. A rejection of what is established simply for the sake of rejecting it.

Not being a psychologist, I can only offer an uneducated view on this, but it seems to me that this attitude is tied into a desire to come across as intelligent (or maybe to convince one’s self of this). To question what most (the masses) blindly accept suggests that you are above them. That you can look at a situation or topic from a standpoint that is broader and less limited that the dumb sheep that make up most of our society. I think this attitude accounts for the “elitist” attitude that is often ascribed to liberals.

Of course, the problem with this attitude is that it doesn’t really take too much intelligence to simply reject some idea or opinion. You actually have to offer an alternative with some substance and be able to defend it. That’s the tricky part and the part that does require some intelligence. There are many liberals, of course, who are able to do this. But from my experience, most can’t or don’t bother. This might, in part, be the result of the “group think” mentality found at today’s liberally dominated universities. If everything you read and everyone you talk to agrees with your point of view, there’s no real need to learn to defend it against opposing views.

As a side note, I think it’s this Core Attitude which attracts so many liberals to academia (specifically, the liberal arts). I’ve heard it suggested many times (by liberals, of course) that liberals are typically smarter than conservatives because there are more liberals working as professors than conservatives. Aside from the obvious flaw in this argument (you can use the same argument to suggest that most liberals are college students since most college students are liberals), it tends to ignore what motivates a person to work at a university. I think the Core Attitude accounts for that (to some degree) since professors who do research are encouraged to question established ideas and put forth novel ones in the hope that it might lead to some insight and further research.

But as I mentioned above, most liberals don’t really offer original alternatives. Criticisms about the current state of liberal universities aside, I don’t think this is really a liberal failing – it’s more a human failing. Something along the lines of “biting off more than you can chew”. The typical liberals is all for bucking the establishment, but then tends to just parrot liberal talking points that have been around for ages, since coming up with something truly original is, well, difficult. On top of that (now getting back to the university thing) they are generally incapable to defend their points of view against valid criticisms. Not only is all of this ironic (given the motivation behind the Core Attitude), but it’s also the liberal’s greatest weakness. To a liberal, it’s the act of rejection that signifies intelligence (or independence of thought or whatever). Offering an alternative that can be defended is of secondary importance. This is why liberals will typically accuse conservatives of being hostile to opposing views (a sign of the conservative’s lack of intelligence), but are then unable to effectively defend the views they have offered. “I’m not necessarily defending the view I put out there”, the liberal says, “I just wanted to put it out there to get you guys to think outside of your little box”.

I think this Core Attitude accounts for a number of typical liberal stances:

• The rejection of traditional forms of dress and conduct.
• Rejection of established religions.
• Rejection of tradition forms of art.
• Rejection of the traditional definition of marriage.
• Rejection of established teaching styles.
• Rejection of the traditional definitions of right and wrong.

And just to cap it off with a specific example that crops up these days

• Rejection of the generally held belief that the attacks of 9/11 were the result of external terrorist actions, not anticipated by the American government.

I think the last one is an example of the more general attitude among many liberals that conspiracy theories should be taken seriously – no mater how unsubstantiated they are.

An alternate form of the Core Attitude might go something like this.

Core Attitude (Conservative Formulation): It’s a sign of intelligence to question and/or reject everything that Conservatives believe.

Again, the attitude is driven be a desire to come across as intelligent. A typical liberal stereotype portrays conservatives as mindless sheep who can’t think for themselves. By rejecting their views and beliefs, you demonstrate just how smart you are.

Holes in All This: Despite the number of liberal views this formulation seems to account for, there are a couple of prominent views it doesn’t.

• The liberal obsession with strict gun control laws. This might be the result of the Conservative Formulation of the Core Attitude. Gun culture is seen as a predominantly conservative one and so, it’s rejected outright. This might be supported by the fact that liberals like to stereotype gun owners as a bunch of uneducated rednecks, and so the intelligence by rejection attitude comes up. Or maybe it’s related to the Core Belief in that, a person with a gun is in a position of power over someone who doesn’t. Not really happy either explanation.
• The liberal support of abortion. Again, maybe just a rejection of something conservative, but that doesn’t seem correct. And if anything, it seems to almost go against the Core Belief (particularly the Extreme Form). It might be related to View 5, with the actions of women (an underprivileged group) being viewed as beyond judgment. Again, not happy with either explanation.

What about Personal Freedom? The one thing to notice is that I haven’t mentioned what many consider to be the core belief of liberalism – the establishment and protection of personal freedoms. I did this is on purpose. The idea of establishing and protecting personal freedoms is something that most people agree with, regardless of political affiliation. In other words, the idea is too general (and for me, too vague). Also, taking this as a core belief results in what appear to be contradictions. Consider the two examples above – gun control and abortion. On the one hand, liberals want to place restrictions on the right to own firearms but at the same time they want to expand (or maintain) the rights of women to have abortions. The same problem holds for the conservative view of these topics. As noted, the Core Belief and Core Attitude I’ve adopted don’t seem to account for these either, but at least no obvious contradiction results.

Final Note: Taken together, the Core Belief and the Core Attitude portray the liberal as idealistic and rebellious – traits that that I associate with adolescence. In fact, it was the recognition of this adolescent attitude (and the fact that most teens and college students consider themselves to be liberal) that motivated me to think about all of this. The stereotypical liberal attitude of “I want the government to be there to help with food, shelter and free money if I mess up, but I want it to stay out of my personal business” seems to mimic the view held by teenagers toward their parents. I’m not really sure what this says about liberals, but I thought I’d throw it out there.

OK, Really the Final Note: After writing this, I decided I should probably search around a little bit to see how others define the term “liberal”. Since I’m being lazy, I did a quick Google search and here’s a couple of relevant items:

“What it means to be a Liberal”, Geoffrey R. Stone (Chicago Tribune Website)

“What Makes a Liberal”, Ezra Klein (Ezra Klein’ Blog)

The Klein piece is a response to Stone. The thing that’s interesting (to me, at least) is that much of what I’ve written is consistent with the views expressed by these two self described liberals (although I tend to be much more critical).


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hdM....Thanks for the Insight

Wow, hdM,

You obviously gave some serious thought to this.  I am totally impressed.

And I wonder, and perhaps this would be a good topic of discussion...how our fellow citizens arrived at the liberal point of view?

To me, it's an anathema....I do for me and mine, but what makes an individual believe it's easier to abdicate personal responsiblity....and hand it over to the "government" to solve?

That, I believe, is the crux of the chasm in our country today.

An interesting question, yes?

Blonde, Thank you for the

Blonde,

Thank you for the kind reply.

I think I know what you are getting at. I've heard it suggested that the basis of the liberal view has something to do with the idea of Collective Security vs Individual Freedoms (which nicely explains the Second Amendment issue).

But I it isn't obvious to me how that fits into the whole of what I wrote. I have to think on it.

hdM,We all (well, at least me

hdM,

We all (well, at least me) throw around "libs" and "lefties" and all of those words all the time when we ascribe the views of our opponents....

But I really like your post....and the directions in which it made me think.

Seriously...how did they get there....to that socialistic view?  What made them do that?

I know what got me to my conservative view. 

I suspect the critical thinking, and analysis of these two divergent views, shall be the basis for the votes on the next election....and perhaps for the direction our country takes in the course of the next twenty years.

As someone said...interesting times.

Thanks for  a great post!

Blonde,I purposely don't

Blonde,

I purposely don't try to suggest how or why someone might become a liberal. I hint at it a little with the "attitude" thing (an attempt to come across as intelligent) and the observation that the lib view is similar to that of an adolescent's (so maybe they just never grew up).

I'm guessing part of it is that there is a liberal view (just as there is a conservative view) already out there and people are naturally inclined to associate with others in a group. Why they pick the liberal over the conservative (or libertarian or whatever) - who knows? Upbringing. Who their friends where. What TV shows they watched as kids. I think it depends too much on the details of an individual's life to make a general statement.

That's what I find to be so f

That's what I find to be so fascinating about your post....

How did we get to where we are?

And how did they (the dreaded libs) get to be where they are?

That's what I'm hoping the discussion about your post shall be about.  It is really rather a intruiging topic.  And, one in which I hope (sheesh!) our liberal posters here will chime in, with an honest discussion.

Time will tell whether there's any traction on this debate....but it was a great post on your part...and a really interesting topic.

Liberty oppresses

hydrodyn - Here's another viewpoint that I brought up to LionKing, and one I should perhaps flesh out into an NB forum post of my own: Liberty oppresses. That sounds contradictory, doesn't it? You know, "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" (from Eric Blair) and "VISION WILL BLIND!!! SEVERANCE TIES!!! MEDIAN AM I!!! TRUE ARE ALL LIES!!!" (from Meshuggah). But consider how Leftists think. Why, for instance, do they want to stomp out all traces of trans-fats? Because if they do, that eliminates a choice we have to make, and thus, the Nanny State does our thinking for us. Why are some Leftists absolutely obsessed about having the government provide doctors? Because, what do we have to do now? SHOP for one, find one at high quality for the lowest possible price, and there are SO MANY hospitals, and doctors, and types of insurance to choose from!  Why, if the Nanny States would do all of that FOR us, there are fewer decisions we have to make!!!

With liberty and freewill comes things like: risk, decisions, benefits, consequences, and other things that must be weighed and thought about.  Have you ever considered how viciously oppressing all of that liberty can be?  What if we DIDN'T have to think for ourselves and could just turn ALL over to the Big Nanny? 

 THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)

unsane ... maybe simplified

Nanny-state is really the key. Liberals do not want to grow-up, they want to be mothered and protected from themselves. They do not want to accept respnsibility for their actions, they just want to be accepted.

I see this with my teenagers and with liberals...it is a sense of entitlement. The world owes them something.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.

In response to a couple of

In response to a couple of points made here, I decided to add an addendum

Addendum: Freedom from Choice

I’m adding this to address a common criticism of liberals –
that despite their talk of “individual freedoms”, liberals often support
programs which actually curtail individual freedoms and choices. This view seems
to be tied into the criticism that liberals don’t place much value in the idea
of personal responsibility. I had stated (in my original post) that I wanted to avoid a discussion
about “personal freedoms” but, what the heck…

I’ll divide freedoms into three categories and talk about
how liberals view each of these in light of the Core Belief:

1) Freedoms that have a substantive effect on others.

Here, I have in mind things like the economic freedoms that
are characteristic of capitalistic systems. I think View 2 covers this. These
types of freedoms are generally seen in a negative light by liberals since they
represent an opportunity for a privileged person or group (the employers, for
example) to take advantage of an underprivileged person or group (employees).

2) Freedoms that have no substantive effect.

I consider these to be the kinds of freedoms that liberals seem
to harp about most often – the ones that fall under the umbrella term of
“freedom of expression”. Despite all of the hyperbolic statements by liberals
about how important this freedom is; in practice, it typically has no real
effect on any aspect of anyone’s life. Yes, you can burn the American flag, you
can vomit in protest at the G-8 Summit and you can drop a crucifix in a jar of
urine and call it art. But guess what? It makes no real difference – probably
not in your life and certainly not on the life of anyone who happens to witness
it. This freedom is treasured by liberals because it goes hand-in-hand with the
Core Attitude. What’s the point in rejecting the norm if you can’t express how
your doing it (and show how clever or smart you are in the process)?

View 5*: Freedom of expression is important and should be encouraged, particularly if
the expression tends to place an underprivileged person or group in a positive
light or a privileged person or group in a negative light.

There are exceptions, of course…

~View 5*: Freedom of expression is important and should be encouraged, unless the
expression tends to place an privileged person or group in a positive light or
a underprivileged person or group in a negative light.

View 5* and ~View 5* account for the double standard used
when applying speech codes at universities and colleges. “You have the freedom
to speak your mind … unless it hurts someone’s feelings or makes them feel
uncomfortable”. Besides being arguably unconstitutional, in practice, it seems
to be enforced only in cases where the “hate speech” is directed at a
“protected” (underprivileged) individual or group – never the other way around.

As the notation suggests, you can View 5* and ~View 5* as essentially
being the same as View 5 and ~View 5, with “expression” meaning something like,
“judgments about an expression”.

3) Freedoms that have a substantive effect on the person exercising that freedom.

These are the freedoms that allow or force an individual to
make decisions that really do affect their lives. And these are the freedoms
that cause liberals problems. Why? Because, put simply, some people make better
decisions than others.

According to the Core Belief, no person is inherently better
than any other – regardless of their actions or inactions. Consequently, no
person should live a better life than any other (View 2). It’s unfair that some
people make decisions which improve their lives while others, through no fault
of their own (View 3), do not. And it’s that last part – the “through no fault
of their own” – which causes one of the larger divisions between conservatives
and liberals. It is at the root of the often voiced criticism that liberals
don’t place enough importance in personal responsibility.

To make a (really bad) analogy, I think conservatives
generally view people as icebreakers moving through a sea of ice. If you make
the decision to acquire an education and training and if you work hard, you can
follow the course you choose, regardless of the difficult obstacles that get in
our way.

Liberals view the typical person (not themselves, of course)
as tiny corks in a violent sea. Where you end up is dictated by forces outside
of your control – how much money you are born into, the neighborhood you grew
up in, how your parents raised you, genetic factors that might cause you to
eat, or smoke or drink too much, the “crummy” economy, etc… and, of course, how
lucky or unlucky you are.

The inclusion of “luck” in that list might come across as
flippant, but it seems to me that liberals use the idea of luck as a kind of
catchall phrase for anything and everything that’s outside of your control. It is
what allows them to dismiss (or downplay) the idea of personal responsibility. If
you come from a poor family and make it to a position of success and wealth,
surely luck was a major factor. If you end up living under a bridge, no doubt,
you had the misfortune of losing your job or being born into a life of hardship.
Without it, they have to acknowledge that some people do, in fact, make better
decisions than others and, consequently, live lives that are better than others
– all as a result of their own personal characteristics and attitude toward
life. And that just doesn’t work with the Core Belief.

From the standpoint of View 1, it is the job of society (the
government) to act as a kind of safety net to catch those who’ve made mistakes
or been plagued by bad luck. This is the root of what some critics characterize
as the liberal’s desire for a “Nanny State”.
In my view, the Nanny State
is characterized as having two functions – relieving people of the burden of
having to make decisions that will affect their lives in a substantive way and
helping to minimize the results of bad decisions.

One way to prevent people from making poor decisions is to
eliminate the decision making process all together. If we let the government
make the decisions, not only are we relieved of the responsibility of taking
care of our own health care needs or planning for our retirement (as examples),
but we get the added bonus that the government will (ideally) apply the same
standards to everyone, which agrees nicely with the Core Belief. Consider what
happened when it was proposed that we partially privatize Social Security. The
liberals had a conniption. The criticism, of course, was that people
(predominantly uneducated people in an underprivileged group) would make poor
financial decisions and would ruin their lives.

The liberal tendency to support government entitlement
programs was already mentioned with regard to View 1. In that context, it was
described as an effort to even things out – to make the downtrodden less so.
But from the present standpoint, you can also view these programs as a way for
the government to help people who have made lousy decisions in life and have
ended up in a situation where they can’t (or won’t) support themselves.

I think the topic of abortion factors into this discussion
of freedom of well. Although the typical liberal argument is usually presented
as being about the rights of women to their own bodies (or something along
those lines), I tend to view these arguments as noble sounding crocks. I
suggest it’s really a desire by liberals to legalize a type of biological “do
over” – a way of correcting a mistake. “Sure you have the right to have sex
with who ever you want – whether you’re a teen or not – whether you’re married
or not. And if you accidentally end up pregnant, no big deal. Get an abortion
and everything’s back to the way it was. No inconvenience and no need to deal
with the consequences of your actions”

Going back to my maritime analogy (which I thankfully wont
expand on), it would seem that conservatives tend to have more faith in people
than liberals do. Yes, according to the Core Belief, liberals like to think
that, fundamentally, we are all the same. But their fatalistic attitude towards
life tends to make them view individual strengths as subordinate to the
external factors which really dictate how our lives turn out. It is the job of
society (or government) to help counter this – to help lift up the unfortunate
and to knock down those who have had too much fortune. Very altruistic (at
least for the poor), but ultimately, it suggests that the typical liberal
doesn’t have much faith in the average person.

And this leads me to my last topic – gun control. Despite
all of the elaborate, statistically motivated and, in many cases, tortured
arguments about the dangers of firearms, the number of child and hunting
fatalities, how we compare to other countries when it comes to shooting deaths,
etc… I think ultimately, it comes down to one simple thing – fear. Fear of
living in a world where every other Joe Six-pack is carrying a concealed
firearm. Couple that with the typical liberal’s refusal to have anything to do
with firearms and you have what amounts to a nightmare scenario. To a liberal,
people can’t be trusted to make rational decisions. If you give people guns, those
people will start to indiscriminately kill one another for the slightest
offense. And there they are, the liberal, stuck in the middle of it …
defenseless as a result of their own hang-ups about guns.

After the VA Tech shooting, it was suggested that if the
campus had allowed students with legal carry permits on campus, the killing
spree might have been averted. The typical liberal response, of course, was
“Yea, give every frat guy a gun … that’s a good idea”. No discussion about what
it entails to get a carry permit. No discussion about the fact that the vast,
vast majority of gun owners are responsible individuals who take their right to
bear arms very seriously. Nope. To a liberal, the average person can’t be
trusted with that kind of deadly responsibility.

Which makes me thing I should add one more liberal
characteristic to the list…

Core Faith: You can’t have faith that the average person will do what’s best for them or
society. That's our job.

hydrodyn --well written--

hydrodyn --well written--

"This freedom is treasured by liberals because it goes hand-in-hand with the
Core Attitude. What’s the point in rejecting the norm if you can’t express how
your doing it (and show how clever or smart you are in the process)?"

I always get the impression that the liberals I know are always trying to demonstrate how "tolerant" as well as smart they are. It is a sort of "look at me, how nice(smart, grand) I am". You used the crucifix in urine as one of your examples. You said it makes no real difference and I was going to disagree with you, but  in thinking it over, you are correct. In my case, a short period of anger. In a later sentence you cover it well--"What’s the point in rejecting the norm if you can’t express how your doing it (and show how clever or smart you are in the process)? " I guess in my pique that is what I call the "look at me how grand I am". Well done!!!!

misterbill, Thanks for the

misterbill,

Thanks for the reply. Like I said in the original (way long) post, I thought that trying to describe the typical liberal had to have something like a comment about their attitude. The thing that sparked it for me was the typical libs condescending attitude ('you're all a bunch of idiots") and also the bizarre habit they have of not wanting to be labeled "liberal".

Like, somehow, that's insulting because they are ooh so unique and ooh so original in their views. They aren't usually, but I think it fundamental to how libs view themselves.

I am currently suffering from Dem shock--

I am currently suffering from Dem shock--I recently got in contact with some shipmates from 1951-1955. Two of them surprised me (disappointed). One informed me after I sent a Fred Thompson report  to him that he votes the straight Dem ticket no matter what. Hell of a good guy, but I vote for the "right" (IMHO) person not just a straight ticket. The other fellow after getting a (I thought) humorous email about urine tests for welfare recipients came back with an email (which I partially agreed with) citing Halliburton, lockheed and a few others as being the real welfare recipients.\

Oh well, that's what makes a horse race. I just naively assumed that those who fought for their country would be conservatives. On the plus side , that assumption was the only mistake I made today. LOL

misterbill, I kinda know ho

misterbill,

I kinda know how you feel. One of my oldest friends is a West Point grad, went to Ranger school, etc... His oldest brother is an engineer for the Air Force. Their whole family is pretty conservative. However...

The middle brother - a guy I like a lot - is a total liberal. We have had arguments that have almost turned violet about certain issues. Normally, I wouldn't care if someone was a lib or not, but it just doesn't make sense to me. He's such a good guy - how can he be a liberal?

It's like trying to add 2+2 and repeatedly getting pi. It just so damn frustrating.

hydrodyn--play a little game--

hydrodyn--play a little game--answer the following questions as a liberal--if you can--

Was America really bad to the Amerinds and shouldn't we be punished for it?

Weren't we wrong to allow slavery and shouldn't we be punished?

Should we have not intervened in 'Nam and shouldn't we be punished?

Isn't it awful how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and shouldn't we be blamed and punished?

Isn't war evil and shouldn't we be punished for it?/

Free sex and abortion are individual choices and nobody should be punished for either, true?

We have a surplus of jobs and should  welcome as many immigrants as wish to come, true? (why have borders?)

If we bring our troops home and reduce miltary spending America will be a better place, true?

All people need help and if someone has trouble keeping a steady job, we other should support him/her, true?

and on and on. , Isn't it easier to be a Lib??

-

Nanny state, nanny state

what will be our fate?

If we try, you see

To keep others free?

We really shouldn't try

'cause some folks will die

so let us with elation

enter US isolation

bring home all our troops

make them Peace Corps groups

then all wars will cease

and the world will live in peace!                Yeeeeah ,RIIIIGHT!!!

--

Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?  And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?

Sir  Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard

misterbill, Actually,

misterbill,

Actually, I'll see if I can address all of your points given what I wrote in
my original post and my addendum.

Your first five questions can be addressed by "~View 5". That's
the "it's ok to judge America
harshly" view since we are viewed as a privileged nation. And no nation
should be privileged - they should all be the same.

The sixth question about sex is addressed in my addendum post.

The seventh question about immigration is also, I think, tied into
"~View 5" (though I don't address it in my original post). The idea
of "America"
isn't viewed with pride by liberals - since that would amount to suggesting
that somehow, America
is worthy of praise and so better than other countries or cultures. Nope. Since
no group or culture is better than any other, why not turn America
into a homogeneous mix of all cultures with no real identity. Having said that,
the immigration issue, I think, is more complicated, which is why I didn't
address it in my original post.

Your eighth question again just reflects the tendency of liberals to squirm
at the fact that America
is in a privileged position by having the strongest military on the planet.

And your last questions i addressed both my View 1 and by my addendum.

That was fun.