Lets just look at the facts, shall we?
Wow, both the 9/11 Commission Report AND the CIA say they attacked us because of our foreign policy and not because of our "freedoms." Hmm, looks like Giuliani needs to be the one to retract his statement and be banned from anymore debates.














Comments Policy
Speaking of "blowback,
May 18, 2007 - 09:02 ET by WhichWingSpeaking of "blowback," be ready for some. I started a thread just a couple of days before the debate asking why terrorists hate America. 6 days later there are more than 230 replies. But the resident neo-cons are still in complete denial that our foreign policy could possibly cause terrorists to want to attack us.
I think its telling that the unscientific poll on Fox following the debate showed Ron Paul with more support than Rudy Giuliani. AND, with Paul showing as first or second in that poll throughout the remainder of the coverage, they have people come on to say that there are people that should be removed from the debates in the future. Who? Ron Paul. The guys that got 2% or less? Don't worry, they still want them around.
"We report, you decide." That's what Fox says. But when we decide, they cast our opinions aside and continue the push of the "top-tier" candidates. Who decides who is "top-tier?" Ron Paul leading in the MSNBC Poll after that debate (which someone here told me that was just because MSNBC gets more liberal visitors to their site), and leading in the Fox poll after the debate (I would assume because of all of Fox's liberal viewers) tells me that he IS a "top-tier" candidate.
I said my piece, now the rest of you can proceed to label people as "terrorist sympathizers," I know you are itching to get started.
Too late, one beat you to i
May 18, 2007 - 09:07 ET by sarcasmoToo late, one beat you to it. I've already been informed that I hate America today, apparently because I think the founders were right about "entangling alliances" with dictatorships like the Saudis. The fact is that these alliances make it somewhat difficult to sell the idea that we suddenly actually believe in democracy instead of military occupation.
JMR
Guys, come on, of course it
May 18, 2007 - 09:23 ET by The Wicked ConservativeGuys, come on, of course it's because of our foreign policy that they hate us. If we'd just roll over like a a good dog and allow them to destroy Israel, grow poppies, and train terrorists unmolested, well, then we could be friends. Then we could just wait for them to come here and take over via the pc channel that is empowering islam in Europe. Yeah, isolationism, that's going to work for us. Good idea!
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. Talk sense to a
liberal and he calls you a racist, sexist, biggot, homophobe, denier.
Right! Clinton's policies d
May 18, 2007 - 09:33 ET by sarcasmoRight! Clinton's policies did Osama no good whatsoever in recruiting for 9/11!
JMR
It's all or nothing for mos
May 18, 2007 - 11:35 ET by WhichWingIt's all or nothing for most you, from what I've seen. Either its the intrusive, invertionist foreign policy, or its "...roll over like a a good dog and allow them to destroy Israel, grow poppies, and train terrorists unmolested..." The main problem here is your inability to see that there could be a middle ground. But if being an extremist is easier for you, then do what you must.
P.S. You fruitless attempt to prevent them from growing poppies is probably providing them more funding than anything else.
And since nobody-else ever
May 18, 2007 - 12:22 ET by sarcasmoAnd since nobody-else ever wants to recall it, the Bush administration gave millions of dollars to the Taliban for their anti-opium success, which the current government of Afghanistan...er...hasn't exactly equalled. And as Dr. Paul said, our choice doesn't have as cheap a choice as "nothing." It's apparently either "make war" or "give subsidies." The idea of peaceful relations through free trade and avoidance of entangling alliances with despots like the Saudis/Jordanians/etc. is a relic of old-fashioned politicians -- like George Washington...
JMR
Golly
May 20, 2007 - 22:28 ET by Mr. BishopGee... good idea, bring George Washington into the mix... Yeah, when the French Revolution took place, and a major war erupted between Great Britain and France, Washington chose to keep the United States neutral. Alexander Hamilton was wanting the US to step in and support the British. Thomas Jefferson wanted to step in and help the French. However, Washington had more pressing needs to worry about. He was more concerned about making the country grow stronger, before any attempt to help a side. And frankly... Washington would have had no idea, the world would become as small as it has over 200 years later. For the United States to simply turn a blind eye, and maintain no long-term alliances (which is what he counseled for), this country would have failed and disappeared a long time ago.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Washington never counseled
May 23, 2007 - 06:24 ET by sarcasmoWashington never counseled "a blind eye" as you claim. He was our greatest President and one of our greatest generals. He and other founders counseled the most powerful force for the spread of peace. Free trade. Obviously, a nation with an initial history like the one Washington helped to make should be very careful about alliances with despotic dictatorships regardless of changes like the discovery of a bunch of oil under one of those dictatorships, even when almost-nobody but sarcasmo wants to admit the word applies, in spades, to Saudi Arabia. And to quote another great American President whose principles have likewise been sadly-forgotten, "Silent Cal" Coolidge: "The business of America is business and the chief ideal of the American people is idealism." I just can't picture ol' Cal holding hands with a dictator whose dictatorship has for decades spread hatred against America with their money, to the point that we now see a substantial percentage of an entire faith supporting homicide-bombers. There's a good reason the most successful Arab state (not perfect by any means, but a good start towards peace, IMO) these days is Dubai. It's called capitalism. America used to both practice and preach capitalism. We tend to preach a hell of a lot more capitalism than we actually practice these days, especially in the mideast, and we're now reaping the results...Just as our very wise founders, like Washington, warned...
JMR
Well said."The power o
May 23, 2007 - 06:28 ET by WhichWingWell said.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Wow
May 23, 2007 - 19:25 ET by Mr. BishopYou misquoted me, and as such, I suggest that, like WingNut, you learn to read.
I did not say that Washington counseled a "blind eye". I never made that claim, so nice try. I said that Washington counseled against long term alliances -- the exact claim you have made for him! I said that if we were to turn a blind eye to the world, and maintain no long term alliances, as Washington counseled -- this country would have ended centuries ago. You name for me, one country, with an established central government, that has existed for over 200 years, that maintained no long-term alliances, in the modern world. However, you do have to provide your definition of "long-term alliance". I ask this because an "alliance" between Saudi Arabia and the United States didn't begin until around 1940. That puts the alliance between Saudi Arabia at around 67 years now. In terms of the world and its history, that is not very long.
Secondly -- you may call the government in Saudi Arabia a dictatorship, but it deosn't make it so. Your throwing a juvenile tantrem over that now, doesn't make you right. Your actions remind me of a 4-year old, falling to the floor, kicking and hitting the floor with your fists because he says the sky is green. Just because you might call the sky green, doesn't make it true genius.
So, either quote accurately and debate honestly, or get lost.
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, then stem cell research might provide a cure.
I'm sorry if you feel I mis
May 25, 2007 - 05:35 ET by sarcasmoI'm sorry if you feel I misquoted you, but I simply disagree. The alliance with the Saudis' dictatorship has been far too long-term for my taste already, even though they've managed by now to buy political influence in my country. As for the word "dictatorship," you're the one throwing the tantrum and being dishonest, because YOU HAVE YET TO REFUTE IT, OR EXPLAIN A COHERENT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE SAUDIS ARE AND A DICTATORSHIP. Asserting that they're not will just get you more bold, understood?? They're a dictatorship, just like various others we've supported in the past with bad long-term results (see Shah of Iran) and we support them while pointlessly-yammering about "democracy." Period. People like Jefferson and Washington would NOT have supported alliances with such dictatorships and had such double-standards, IMO, because they'd just overthrown one, and that's the "duh file" piece of history you're forgetting, for some reason.
Thomas Jefferson
May 23, 2007 - 06:34 ET by Cool ArrowYou failed to mention Jefferson chose to engage Radical Islam (see Marine Fight song 'to the shores of Tripoli') rather than bow to their proclaimed right to enslave the infidel and collect protection fees from American merchants on the high seas.
We were attracked then, and we were attacked in 2001. If anything, we should consider the attack on 911 a break in the terms of Muslims' surrender at the end of the 1700's. Guess we have to take those Muslocrats on every 200 years or so.
Talk about 'doomed to repeat it.
Isaiah 32:5-8 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. For the vile person will speak villainy, and his heart will work iniquity, to practice hypocrisy, and to utter error aga
Jefferson would have probab
May 23, 2007 - 06:53 ET by sarcasmoJefferson would have probably figured out the obvious "15 outta 19" thing. I'm not saying "don't attack if we're threatened," I'm saying it's not wise to trade one military success (featuring widespread support against Osama) for what has increasingly become 2 failures. We can argue American history all day, but the fact remains that Jefferson wisely attacked America's actual attackers. Saddam was an asshole, but he'd been that same dictatorial asshole since the USA stupidly-supported his dictatorship in the '80s (something I was against, BTW, I wish I had archives of my rants from back-then because -- like Dave Barry -- they'd read well today!) Ever since Libya's Khadaffi very-wisely folded his WMD-hand in exchange for renewed oil-trade with us, we drank the Koolaid of expensive empire. Sometimes, folding leads to an overall win, believe me, and I believe Libya's leader is many things, but "stupid" isn't among them. If we'd somehow managed to get out of Iraq after getting Saddam (and he, not Iraq as a whole, was the problem back then, as another wise libertarian counseled Bush1) America would be a lot better-off today. Iraq's 3 nations could fight it out and settle the scores accumulated under Saddam, and we could concentrate on actually getting Al Qaeda, rather than effectively, by what's seen as an occupation by the Arab world whether or not people here particularly like to call the latest Iraq adventure by that name, recruiting-worldwide-for them.
JMR
Ahh, so sarc
May 26, 2007 - 07:23 ET by SportPoliticsAhh, so sarc, now you've jumped to getting out of Iraq after getting Saddam...
So, is that a after the fact observation, or - as I understand, your claim to fame with Ron Paul is never go in and get him in the first place.
I'd like to know, - what "non-alliance" with allies and dictatorships is according to you people - your and Ron Paul's type ...
Apparently, if we buy oil, that's alliance. Maybe if we say " We as a member of the UN do not support any others attacking this nation we buy oil from. " (Is that the alliance you have a problem with ?)
In other words, if we aren't aligned, by golly what is neutral ? I guess neutral is this " We don't have an opinion on anyone who goes towar with eachother ".
See, that's what it is .... unless you have some other explanantion ?
In other words, Saddam takes Kuwait - that's ok - live with it.
USSR takes Afghanistan - FINE.
USSR takes Eastern Europe- that's forever !
And so on .....
What you and Ron Paul never explain, is what happens when some other nation doesn't fit into this handy little peaceful trade and talk you two have setup for the world ?
If Russia starts reconquering their former satellite nations - with force of arms and China lands on Taiwan and slaughters it leaders and takes over, and Israel nuclear glasses Iran as Pakistan and India escalate and strike eachother - or even ONE of the above - where does your foreign policy come in ? Ceasing trade relations would be taking a side - wouldn't it ? It would be "making an alliance" - so WTF are you two goofballs talking about ?
I haven't "jumped to&q
May 26, 2007 - 07:58 ET by sarcasmoI haven't "jumped to" anything, you need to learn to read links in comments. The Dave Barry link counsels never going to war because of one dictator we never should have supported in the first place, and you fail to address our support of that dictator. The dictator became a bad employee, like Noriega, and we went to war rather than, uh, "firing" him. The results speak for themselves.
JMR
lol- support and firing
May 28, 2007 - 10:14 ET by SportPoliticslol- support and firing....
That's what I thought, a lame moronic excuse.
We fired Saddam for a decade, and tried to strangle him the whole time. It doesn't work, you MORON.
That's what's the matter with you AND Bin Laden. Neither of you have a clue.
If we don't "takedown" the dictator, it's "support" - if we do "takedown" the dictator, it's WRONG as well.
Whining ****s who beg for a different foreign policy that amounts to the support they've been whining about anyway.
Since we would be "supporting" the damned dictators and monarchies binny boy wants to take over, you and Ron the idiot get the USA NOWHERE.
Then, the equally large downside is " NO OTHER NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WILL FOLLOW YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS."
But, you turdy heads could care less.
YOUR policy has GIGANTIC BLOWBACK.
Now, run off to your dope.
Don't give in to his dilusi
May 20, 2007 - 22:19 ET by Mr. BishopDon't give in to his dilusions sarcasmo. WingNut was shown, by his own words, to be the very definition of a terrorist sympathizer.
However, to your "topic" of discussion -- I fail to see how an alliance with one Saudi government, which is a monarchy, not a dictatorship, in any way shows the United States to believe in military occupation, as opposed to democracy. I should think that you would try and respond with a little less obvious hatred toward Saudi Arabia, and a little bit more fact and logic.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Again, your own definition.
May 20, 2007 - 23:31 ET by WhichWingAgain, your own definition. Terrorism: the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. Which, I would say is exactly what we are doing in the Middle East, correct? Thereby making you the terrorist sympathizer.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Nooooo
May 21, 2007 - 00:52 ET by Mr. BishopNice try, but you are incorrect. If you were to say that Bush's actions prior to the entrance into Iraq could be defined as terrorism, you might have a case. However, current circumstances in Iraq dictate otherwise.
Even if you wanted to try and make the case on pre-Iraq being terrorism, you'd have to ignore UN Resolution 1441, and 12-years of the world telling Saddam Hussein to disarm.
Now... just get over it. You don't like being told what you are, then evaluate your position, and change it. Don't want to change it? Fine... but don't get upset when you are told what you are -- a terrorist sympathizer.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Here's the other half of the "it's our fault" tag team
May 18, 2007 - 09:08 ET by RJHere comes the other half of the "it's our fault" tag team, this time shored up by isolationist Ron Paul reinforcements...
WW,You're just "itching&
May 18, 2007 - 22:38 ET by BlondeWW,
You're just "itching" for a response.
You are just a troll, you add nothing of substance to any debate here.
But keep it up, you are amusing in a sad, very sick sort of way that perfectly illustrates what the lefties are all about.
BTW, you are a terrorist sympathizer. If you don't get that yet, go back and read Bishop's last response.
Too bad, so sad, you've proved the point over and over, and you can't take it back. No matter how hard you protest. You are a terr sympathizer. So keep on trying to understand their motives...good luck to you...I hope you get to keep your head for an extra ten seconds.
You are a sick individual.
May 19, 2007 - 00:40 ET by WhichWingYou are a sick individual.
"resident neo-cons"
May 23, 2007 - 04:42 ET by Unsane"resident neo-cons"
I see your bigotry shows no signs of relenting.
Not to mention you prove that violence works. What's your response to 9/11/01? Why, bend over and take in as much as OBL can give you, and hand him everything he wants on a silver platter.
Me, I'd rather have the United States, the defender of freedom and liberty around the world (things that you simply do not believe in) having its own foreign policy and looking out for its national interests, all else be damned, including whiners and complainers like you.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Actually, my resident neo-c
May 23, 2007 - 06:43 ET by WhichWingActually, my resident neo-con, I do not oppose the mission in Afghanistan (sounds like it should be extended into Pakistan). I do oppose the war in Iraq though.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
For the whiner
May 23, 2007 - 18:17 ET by UnsaneWhy should we be in Afghanistan, my resident racist bigot, isolationist, and appeaser? Surely, by your very own logic, we are creating more terrorists by being in Afghanistan.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
We went to Afghanistan to p
May 24, 2007 - 00:59 ET by WhichWingWe went to Afghanistan to pursue the people responsible for 9/11, my resident self-hating neo-conservative war monger. We had no such reason to go to Iraq. Which is exactly why we are creating more terrorists in Iraq. We are the aggressor, the invaders. We would come to the defense of another nation in that situation. But because we have an organized military we would not be called terrorists.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Noooo
May 24, 2007 - 01:16 ET by Mr. BishopYour thoughts on Iraq causing more terrorism, would only be true if we were fighting primarily Iraqis, which we are not. We are fighting primarily, outsiders. In addition -- our reasoning for being in Afghanistan, is irrelevant. If you apply your logic to Iraq, you MUST apply it toward Afghanistan because Al Qaeda doesn't differentiate between the two zones of fighting. They view all as the same. We, in their eyes, invaded two muslim countries. Your logic fails every time you open your mouth. Too bad you're too damned stubborn to see it. Why you see it as different situations, is not how they see it. As such, the logic MUST be applied to both situations, or else your logic has no basis in reality.
__________________________________________________________
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, then stem cell research might provide a cure.
Again, my terrorist sympathiz
May 24, 2007 - 01:24 ET by UnsaneAgain, my terrorist sympathizing, isolationist, racist anti-Semite bigot:
If our presence in Iraq is creating more terrorists:
1) Why aren't you saying the same about Afghanistan?
2) Why isn't Bill White holding a press conference tomorrow announcing the immediate end of the Houston Police Department, as their existence only creates more criminals?
3) Why did we win the Cold War? Shouldn't our presence in Western Europe have only served to create more Communists?
4) Why did the Continental Army succeed in wresting the colonies from Britain? The Continental Army's very existence only created more Tories, right?
5) Why did the South capitulate to the North in the Civil War? The Union presence in the South only served to create more Confederates, didn't it?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane and Mr. Brishop, h
May 24, 2007 - 04:45 ET by WhichWingUnsane and Mr. Brishop, haters of man-kind, we may be creating more terrorists in Afghanistan, I don't reject the idea. I simply think we are creating more in Iraq, or bringing them there, at a much higher rate. Mr. Bishop himself pointed out that we are mainly fighting outsiders. Like I said before, in Iraq we are the aggressors, we are not in Afghanistan. I'm surprised you both needed an idiot like me to point that out.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Noooo
May 24, 2007 - 10:52 ET by Mr. BishopHaters of mankind... funny... however, I have asked you to show me where I have said anything remotely close to that. Give it a try once -- you know, research something? I have shown you your words, but you can't even come close to showing me anything remotely close to what you keep saying about me. You tried saying that I hate all non-Americans... but you couldn't prove that. Now, you expand to calling me a hater of all man-kind? Try and prove it. Give it a shot...
However, moving on from your idiocy... into more of your idiocy (imagine that, you can't post without inserting idiocy into your statements).
Are we bringing more terrorists to Iraq? Yes, and funnily enough, I don't think that Unsane would deny that, and neither do I. However, that is NOT what you have been saying. You have been saying that Iraq is making more terrorists -- which is an unproven statement. I'd much rather fight terrorists on foreign soil, then our own. You, on the other hand, would much rather watch innocent Americans die in a struggle between terrorists and the US military. If this is not true, why are you so adamently against us fighting terrorists in Iraq?
Secondly: how can you say, that we are aggressors in Iraq, but not Afghanistan? In both cases, we invaded to depose the sitting governments at the time. In both cases, neither government was responsible for the attacks of 9-11. By what logic do you make the claim, that we are aggressors in Iraq, but not Afghanistan? You see why you're an idiot yet? You see no similarities when there are plenty, and ignore similarities, when there are. If you see us as the bad guy in Iraq, you MUST see us as the bad guy in Afghanistan. Anything to the contrary, is more of that whole liberal nonsensical argument, "I support the troops, but not the war." It's BS, and not unlike you to spout it.
__________________________________________________________
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, then stem cell research might provide a cure.
Wrong. (I get a little smi
May 24, 2007 - 17:10 ET by WhichWingWrong. (I get a little smile on my face everytime I post that in response to your ramblings.)
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Not surprised
May 24, 2007 - 20:19 ET by Mr. BishopThe unintelligent, and the simple-minded tend to find the smallest things humorous in life.
For example, you complain about "ramblings" when I post something longer then your trollish "Wrong" posts. I answered your questions, to which you ignore the answers to. I suppose it's too much to hope for, that you might actually honor your word, and leave the forums forever since I posted your words for you, that show you to be a military hating terrorist sympathizer? I'm not surprised the answer will be no... I figure that your ability to defy logic, might as well go hand in hand with your pathological need to lie at every turn also.
It also never ceases to amaze me either, that when people cannot refute what I argue, they instead, resort to criticizing my post length. That only goes to show your limited ability to actually handle debate, as well as your obvious (as you have shown repeatedly) inabililty to actually read more then one sentence. Frankly, I'm getting use to your side's inability to have a reasoned debate, let alone actually debate me in any sort of ideological arena. Thanks for the boost, I was beginning to think that you were just stupid -- now I know you're stupid and outclassed.
Why don't you go back to your kindergarten class now... it's probably snack time, and the teacher may want to make sure you get a good spot on the mat for nap time.
__________________________________________________________
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, then stem cell research might provide a cure.
Wrong. Snack time is befor
May 25, 2007 - 02:04 ET by WhichWingWrong. Snack time is before nap time.
If you actually want to debate something, maybe you should trying make your point without having to attack the other person. Read through what you've posted (not just this post either), and notice how many times "you" or "your" has been used. It's astounding really. Try talking to me, instead of at me.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Calling someone "thick-h
May 25, 2007 - 02:06 ET by UnsaneCalling someone "thick-headed" isn't attacking? Calling someone an "idiot" isn't attacking?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
It is. "The power of
May 25, 2007 - 02:37 ET by WhichWingIt is.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
So you admit to hypocrisy the
May 25, 2007 - 02:57 ET by UnsaneSo you admit to hypocrisy then? For you have used both terms to describe others.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I admit hypocrisy with this
May 26, 2007 - 06:39 ET by WhichWingI admit hypocrisy with this explanation. I have never cast the first stone. I have repeatedly asked both of you to stop attacking people and start discussing the issues. When you post time and time again with nothing but personal attacks, eventually I sink to your level.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Like what personal attacks?
May 26, 2007 - 16:07 ET by UnsaneLike what personal attacks?
Oh, I forgot, questioning your opinions, instead of just rolling over and saying "Geen, WhichWing, you are SO RIGHT, you MUST be appointed PFL!!!", is to you a personal attack.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
So, if we could be creating m
May 24, 2007 - 23:57 ET by UnsaneSo, if we could be creating more terrorists in Afghanistan, and are in Iraq:
1) Why is Bill White not holding a press conference announcing the dissolution of the Houston Police Department, as all it does is creates more criminals?
2) Why aren't the Western European nations committed to communism as a result of the Cold War?
3) Why didn't Operation Overlord result in more Nazis?
4) Why didn't Sherman's "march to the sea" result in creating more soldiers for the Confederate Army?
5) Why didn't the existence of the Continental Army create more Tories?
6) Why isn't Anatolia crawling with citizens of Byzantium?
A hater of mankind? Hardly. I (and though I dare risk speaking for Mr. Bishop, who needs no help from me, I suspect he is on the same wavelength) much rather consider myself a hardened realist, one who understands that violence is sometimes necessary to solve problems. It is indeed much more palatable than just caving to everyone with an axe to grind, as you would do.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Good call Unsane. I don't
May 25, 2007 - 00:18 ET by JerryGood call Unsane. I don't spray for roaches any longer because it just creates more roaches. Also, I let the fleas live peacefully on my dogs so as not to make them angry. That would only result in many more fleas.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
For the whiner
May 23, 2007 - 18:17 ET by UnsaneDouble post...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane
May 23, 2007 - 19:10 ET by SportPoliticsDoesn't matter the little maggot failed to answer, since you nailed his lame ass to the side of his own sty, he's bleeding out now.
I refuse to Play
May 18, 2007 - 09:10 ET by JimboI refuse to play the “support your terrorist sympathizer” game.
Have fun.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Is anyone going to make an
May 18, 2007 - 11:39 ET by WhichWingIs anyone going to make an attempt to explain how Ron Paul was wrong?
I will not get drug into this
May 18, 2007 - 11:53 ET by SouthJersey1953I will not get drug into this mindless chatter, but before I go.....read the Quran. Either we convert to their religion or they kill us. THAT is what the radical muslims believe. They call us the great satan because we support democracy and freedom. The fact that we also support Israel is icing on the cake. Even if we totally left the mid east, they would still hate us and try to kill us. Why don't they go after Europe? They do. Mostly with conversion...EU has lost most of its religious heritage, so the radicals do not consider them an immediate threat to their goal of converting the world.
No RINOs in '08 - Vote for a true conservative!
You should probably read TH
May 18, 2007 - 12:00 ET by WhichWingYou should probably read THIS and THIS to see how Ron Paul might be on to something. Or you can continue to pedal your falsehoods that help you to feel like a partiot.
WW...I have spent some time t
May 18, 2007 - 12:38 ET by Clear thinkerWW...
I have spent some time thinking about the question you posed the other day about why terrorists hate us, and am now convinced you should be answered by asking you a question... why do you hate America?
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Well, if I ever did get to
May 18, 2007 - 20:41 ET by WhichWingWell, if I ever did get to the point where I hate America, I would bet that it was because of people like you. People that want to point the finger at everyone else in order to avoid having to look in the mirror. Our approach to foreign policy is flawed. But you don't want to discuss that because you would have to admit that your country might not be perfect. Guess what. No country is perfect. We could be a free society for the next 1,000 years, but that can only happen if we are willing to look at ourselves in the same critical light that we look at the rest of the world.
You point the finger yourself
May 18, 2007 - 21:17 ET by tracheostomyYou point the finger yourself at the end of your first sentence and then preach doing the very opposite at the beginning of the second.
What's up with that?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Oh jeez, you got me.
May 18, 2007 - 21:31 ET by WhichWingOh jeez, you got me.
Just askin. =)-PJ"Trak
May 18, 2007 - 21:34 ET by tracheostomyJust askin. =)
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Ron Paul is as big an ostrich
May 18, 2007 - 16:17 ET by UnsaneRon Paul is as big an ostrich as you are. If not more so. Being an ostrich is of no help in the Real World.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You mention the real world,
May 18, 2007 - 20:44 ET by WhichWingYou mention the real world, why don't you give everyone the example of the isolationist government that is facing the same threat from terrorism that we are.
Canada, just last year. &qu
May 19, 2007 - 03:59 ET by UnsaneCanada, just last year.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Oh, so you can have troops
May 19, 2007 - 07:15 ET by WhichWingOh, so you can have troops in foreign nations and still be an isolationist?
Come now, WhichWhine. You a
May 19, 2007 - 18:43 ET by UnsaneCome now, WhichWhine. You are smarter than that. The far-reaching majority of the missions the Canadian Forces support are humanitarian in nature. (This is even the case in Afghanistan; yes, they have lost some troops to combat, but the whole reason the Canadians took on the Afghanistan mission is because of underlying humanitarian reasons.)They shy away from anything that doesn't make them FEEL so WARM and GOOD inside!!!
They do missions, in other words, that are best left to MSF or the IRC.
The Canadian Forces had not participated in major combat missions since the Korean War when they took up the Afghanistan missions. From 1953 to 2003 or so, all they did was go on UN peacekeeping missions. And they still do; although I cannot imagine how they can transport their own personnel organically. Other than their "feel-good" missions that you doubtless love, their forces did nothing.
In fact, in 1969, when they re-organized into the Canadian Forces as they are now constituted, PM Trudeau came quite close to withdrawing from NATO entirely. He did slash their presence in Germany greatly; the nearby base I grew up closest to in Germany was in fact a Canadian base at one time until Trudeau pulled them out. (There are no Canadian troops I am aware of in Germany now.)
Why was all this done? To be less like America, which, since you hate the United States, should make Pierre Trudeau a hero in your eyes.
So, yes, the Canadians have chosen to be: whiny, toothless, powerless, and at the mercy of others, just like you want this country to be. But they can afford it. If anything happens to Canada, they'll just come crying to us anyways.
Even so, in 1985, Canada suffered its worst act of terrorism ever when an Air India 747 was bombed over the Irish Sea on its way from Vancouver to New Delhi. Applying your logic, the Canadians were nowhere near interfering in India's internecine struggles with its ethnic and religious minorities, and surely had done nothing to provoke the Sikh extremists said to have carried out the attack. So then, why did it happen?
Or take last year for instance. What did PM Stephen Harper do to earn a threatened decapitation?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
SouthJersey
May 23, 2007 - 18:53 ET by SportPoliticsSouthJersey, the crazy traitorous moronic liberal gasbags we have now cannot imagine any nation doing anything without the USA's consent or demand.
They even blame Hitler's march on Bush' grandaddy. Everything that goes on in the world is caused by the USA. Saddam was installed by the usa they say, was told he could war with Iran, then encouraged to invade Kuwait with the goahead. We trained the terrorists, inbcluding they say OBL himself on the cia payroll and a top dog. We toppled all the nations that fell from 1960 to 1992 when slick willie was sworn in- except for the carter years and other demo years lost in their memory a**hole.
For a damned liberal idiot we start and end all wars and nations on the face of the earth, except russia and china - but china ownz us, and russia they love because it gave saddam most his weapons and Iran its Bushehr nuke plant, and France/ jacques chirac himself gave one to Saddam.
So, the reason Ron Paul is not wrong, according to the massively insane cluckers like WW, who live in a fantasy world of such immense idiocy it is a wonder their brain stem still breathes for them is, if we just stopped doing it :
PEACE and KUMBAYA would break out over the entire face of the earth.
Yeah man, these people are absolutely insane, and believe in false history and insane left wing dogma of mistruth and lies as far as the eye can see. They also believe in massive USA evil power on the dark side of the world. They believe we caused it all. Everything.
They won't amdit it outright, because they know what jackasses it would make of them, but if you ask one by one, over a period of time, everything that has ever happened that they talk about is the USA's fault. Not a single thing have they left to make up their cuckoo theory and call it historical fact. Of course, none of it can be verified, it's just that everyone knows it, and the evil USA and it's cia and dark shadow agencies have covered all the tracks. Cointelpro, northwoods, chile, agrentina, the moon walk, area 51, pearl harbor, jfk assasination, 911, saddam, osama, khomeni blowback, weapon sales, uneccesary nuking hiro and naga, abu ghraib, gitmo, MKultra, the 12, human experimentation, the aids virus, shadow government, stolen election, diebold stolen again, Arpa weather control, phildelphia experiment, gm food contamination, dumping, secret carbeuretors 100mpg, tesla unlimited power source, alien technology, cia drugs to flood inner cities, secret child sex ring in whitehouse, new world order, illuminati, lizard rulers annuki, blood crypt gerominos skull, tracking every citizen, rex 84 concentraion camps for our whole populace, earthquake machine, hurricane weather cloud seeding, blew up the no levies...
Ok, I'm tired.
The fact is, there is no way some lib flako can disagree with Ron Paul no matter how hard he tries. The very same lib flako never has to consider the world without USA intervention - it never even crosses their mind to compare or think about, since we're so evil - if we were out everything would be better and automatically right itself.
They are truly insane, and there are a LOTof them.
Ironic that people like Tho
May 24, 2007 - 19:36 ET by Conservative VoiceIronic that people like Thoughpolice and WW and other Ron Paul worshipers quote the 9/11 Commision Report and the CIA when it suits them...yet are among the people who claim Bush lied on weapons of mass destruction, don't believe the reports that Bush didn't know about 9-11 and who even support the idea that Bush told people to place explosives in the twin towers.
Here is your answer ThoughtPolice...The CIA is invested with career government officials who see President Bush as a threat to THEM. The Commision Report is invested with politics and people trying to cover THEIR behinds. Both of whom believed it was our fault for 9-11. The reality is, we have been at war with terrorists since Carter...but haven't taken them seriously until 9-11. In a way, I suppose it is due to our foreign policy...we exist, we bad (because we exist), we haven't converted to Radical Islam. Or the other foreign policy that we don't employ...kill all muslims. I think we instead have chosen the middle road, of trying to fight terrorists on their own turf...with a mind and heart towards peace.
Gee they didn't quote
May 25, 2007 - 03:23 ET by SportPoliticsGee they didn't quote, and if they had, it would have been quoting BIN LADEN in the 911 report(enemy FATWAH for truth and belief), and certainly NOT the Tenet CIA, but perhaps the now disgruntled, no longer cia, and on the warpath Michael Scheuer.
So, Ron Paul was deceptive, it's a bin laden quote - his Fatwah - in the 911 report, and a former cia on a new mission - bin laden unit closed down.
What the simpletons cannot seem to understand is they do hate us for our freedoms. We are a secular state, and of course, the same jackassed morons claimed Saddam was a secular state, and therefore Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam and would NEVER work or align with him- they were MORTAL ENEMIES - because - he led a secular state.
YOU HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR LYING LIBERALS. ALWAYS !
ChickenWing = Apologist for I
May 25, 2007 - 06:33 ET by Sergeant ROCKChickenWing = Apologist for Islamo-fascism
"Q Mr. President, w
May 25, 2007 - 06:58 ET by WhichWing"Q Mr. President, why is he still at large? (Bin Laden)
THE PRESIDENT: Why is he at large? Because we haven't got him yet,
Jim. That's why. And he's hiding, and we're looking, and we will
continue to look until we bring him to justice. We've brought a lot of
his buddies to justice, but not him. That's why he's still at large.
He's not out there traipsing around, he's not leading many parades,
however. He's not out feeding the hungry. He's isolated, trying to
kill people to achieve his objective.
Those are his words -- his objectives are his words, not mine. He has
made it clear -- he and Zawahiri, their number two, have made it clear
what they want. And in a war against extremists and radicals like
these, we ought to be listening carefully to what they say. We ought to
take their words seriously. There have been moments in history where
others haven't taken the words of people seriously and they suffered.
So I'm taking them seriously."
What are you trying to prov
May 25, 2007 - 11:16 ET by Conservative VoiceWhat are you trying to prove with this quote WhichWing? That we are at fault because Bin said so? Taking words seriously doesn't mean whatever they say is truth...rather, when they say we will kill you, we take the threat seriously.
I posted that quote because
May 26, 2007 - 06:44 ET by WhichWingI posted that quote because everytime I point to the terrorists words (mainly in the "Why do Terrorists Hate America" thread) I am called a terrorist-sympathizer. Oddly enough, that was not the reaction in this case.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
WhichWing are you really that stupid ?
May 26, 2007 - 07:41 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing are you really that stupid ? You have said Ron Paul "is right" - and we need to change our foreign policy because we asked for it and got it.
Bush never said any such thing.
The problem I have with you idiots, is the same thing every political talking head discussion is nowadays - an EMPTY accusation about "something" - that NEVER says what the "other method" should be, and NEVER examines the idea with a follow up "conclusion based upon implementation".
See, that's the problem with you. Bush says dead or alive, they're crazy religious wackos and they need to be brought to justice,here is how they said they want to kill us all. "
AND YOU SAY:
" Bin Laden has made his points about our evil foreign policy, we need to listen to him and change it like Ron Paul said. Bin Laden is right ! Time to listen ! "
BUT AFTER THAT YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE A TERRORIST SUPPORTER AND BUSH ISN'T ?
Look, I KNOW you're a freaking moronic idiot, but even I don't believe you are that GD stupid, ok ?
" Bin Laden has made h
May 26, 2007 - 08:01 ET by WhichWing" Bin Laden has made his points about our evil foreign policy, we need
to listen to him and change it like Ron Paul said. Bin Laden is right !
Time to listen ! "
Close, change it to "Ron Paul is right", not "Bin Laden is right!"
We tell the enemy why we are attacking them, should they listen to us? Of course they should. The enemy tells us why they attack us, should we listen to them? Of course we should. (I know you want to translate that to "The terrorists want to rape your women and children, and you say go for it" or something stupid like that. Head over to the logic post if are compelled to say something like that.)
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Actually, Ron Paul couldn't b
May 26, 2007 - 16:09 ET by UnsaneActually, Ron Paul couldn't be more wrong. Maybe Neville Chamberlain was cryogenically frozen and thawed out to become a Congressman, and later a Presidential primary candidate???
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
The problem WhichWing, whil
May 26, 2007 - 16:27 ET by Conservative VoiceThe problem WhichWing, while I agree with you that we should listen to our enemies, where we differ is how we should listen. We should listen, and then weigh the facts. Is Bin Laden using Democrat talking points? Hmmm, because he knows he has an audience who will agree with him, and thereby undermind the war. It is more important to listen to the threat and not so much on the so called reasons for the threat. The threat has greater consequences to ignore. The reasons for his threat are harder to determine how truthful or how manipulative they are. We become terrorists sympathizers when we agree with the terrorists that our foreign policy is causing them to be terrorists...because that is BS, they are terrorists because they see us a threat to their power.
Don't you see how that line
May 27, 2007 - 06:48 ET by WhichWingDon't you see how that line of thinking can do nothing more than perpetuate this situation? The threat does pose serious consequences, but the cause of the threat is something we should take into consideration. What are their demands anyway? That we stay out of the their country/region? Well, that seems reasonable to me. Just as we don't want a foreign power conducting military exercises and influencing elections in our corner of the world, they don't either.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
You make the assumption that
May 27, 2007 - 12:10 ET by Conservative VoiceYou make the assumption that these are reasonable men. You can't reason with madmen. With the Russians we were able to play chess and chicken knowing they weren't suicidal. Terrorists are mad men. They lie, cheat, torture, rape, kill, and even are willing to commit suicide, the only thing you can count on them being serious on is their threats...everything else chances are they are lying to get you to second guess your moral highground of defending yourself.
For example
May 27, 2007 - 15:43 ET by UnsaneI have yet to hear WhichWhine tell me how we should go about negotiating with a nation that pays lip service to the most basic levels of diplomatic protocol (Iran).
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Like this, I suppose."
May 28, 2007 - 07:09 ET by WhichWingLike this, I suppose.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
I see WhichWing sides with the enemy of Iraq again
May 28, 2007 - 10:08 ET by SportPoliticsSo WhichWing, the enemy of Iraq, namely Iran, the one creating havoc with the Madhi army and giving refuge to Al Sadr, is now - not supposed to GET OUT of a nation that is not theirs, but you say "they can create the security arrangements for Iraq".
Maybe you forgot they fought an 8 year war, and being the shia , they will gladly murder sunni and kurds, and IT's NOT THEIR NATIO