GOP Presidential Debate Thread


So who's going to win? Will FNC be fairer than MSNBC? Tune in tonight at 9pm Eastern. In the meantime, feel free to prognosticate and discuss...


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Dr. Paul again, and probabl

Dr. Paul again, and probably -- but considering bias from last debate (like Chris Matthews' "Oh God" comment when Dr. Paul dared mention the US Constitution) that's a pretty low bar you're settin', IMO. He certainly did well on Cavuto today, and I'm looking forward to 9PM.
JMR

question

question to all candidates :  Why don't you idiots all drop out before Fred Thompson destroys you mental and moral midgets ??

never look a gift skunk in the tail ..

I try to keep an open mind ab

I try to keep an open mind about people. However, I think that Ron Paul is a man of no principles ... Put "Alex Jones Ron Paul" into Google and see what pops up. If you don't know anything about Alex Jones, he is a man who makes a living by claiming that the Bush administration orchestrated the attacks on 9/11. Ron Paul has no common sense for appearing on the Alex Jones show, I would fear for the safety our nation if that man was president.

Questions. Did you know th

Questions. Did you know that Ron Paul has the highest Constitutional rating in Congress (meaning he's the only one who strictly adheres to the Law of the Land)? Also, are you fully aware of the fact that, like global warming, there is more scientific evidence that support the skeptics rather than what the politicians tells us.

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20

"Also, are you fully a

"Also, are you fully aware of the fact that, like global warming, there
is more scientific evidence that support the skeptics rather than what
the politicians tells us."

Yeah,SURE there is. If you count made-up scientific evidence, that is.

You missed some recent Newsbu

You missed some recent Newsbuster posts.  It's the IPCC which has made up scientific evidence.  Namely, they cherry picked CO2 numbers for the horse-and-buggy century to make them look lower than they were, so it would appear that CO2 levels spiked when the Industrial Revolution and man's evil global warming gases kicked in. 

Also, please explain the warming taking place on Neptune and other bodies in the Solar System.

AGW is on its last legs.  The question is, how long will the msm treat it like Weekend at Bernies.

I think....

I think he was responding to the latter portion of the made up scientific evidence -- concerning 9-11 being a plot planned and carried out by Bush et al. I, at first, thought as you did, then I read other posts of his, and this can be the only conclusion.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

"I think he was respon

"I think he was responding to the latter portion of the made up
scientific evidence -- concerning 9-11 being a plot planned and carried
out by Bush et al. I, at first, thought as you did, then I read other
posts of his, and this can be the only conclusion."

Yeah, that was it. Sorry, the original poster's post read to me like he/she believed the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense.

Thanks for clarifying, ckc &a

Thanks for clarifying, ckc & Mr. Bish.

Weekend at Bernies made 2 seq

Weekend at Bernies made 2 sequels if I remember right.  The more horrible thoughtis if it made it to Michael Myers invincible status turning up at every corner. 

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.

Seems that Ron Paul wanted to

Seems that Ron Paul wanted to out-truth Alex Jones tonight. Dr. Paul dug himself into a hole that he will never be able to climb out of.

newkid,You got that right...a

newkid,

You got that right...and then some!

He is done...I have been waiting patiently for him to do exactly what he did, I have heard him for years now on the House floor with utter disappointment when it comes to protecting our country.

Isolationist plus.

I'm surprised you'd call wh

I'm surprised you'd call what Slick did (provocative bombings in Iraq for a decade before 9/11, during which time Osama was recruiting for murder-volunteers) "protecting America," but it figures you and much of the audience would agree with Rudy despite the facts. You're angry, as am I. It doesn't make you right, though.

Consider for a moment: You are Osama bin Laden, and you're a heroic fighter. With the help (now un-appreciated -- take note interveners!!!) of the Christian Intelligence Agency, you have kicked the Atheists -- the second most powerful military in the world -- out of Afghanistan despite the odds. It's the early '90s, and while victorious over there, back at your home there are awful problems, you think. The evil Saddam's failed Kuwait adventure has led the Saudi dictators you hate to invite the Christian armies to stay on the Holiest of All Lands in great numbers even after his invasion failed & was kicked-out of Kuwait. Worse yet, the Christians' BJ-hound President enforces an idiotic and corrupt UN "Oil for Food" program in Iraq from the Holiest of All Lands in Iraq, and occasionally he sends planes from the Holiest of All Lands to bomb fellow Muslims also on Muslim land -- an outrage in your eyes as innocent children starve, and you DO NOT blame Saddam (you see their media, remember, not ours!). Both Saddam and the Saudi dictatorship, to you, are horribly corrupt, but far worse is the ultimate evil of letting foreign invaders have a military presence that's so-provocative on the very lands The Prophet walked, peace be upon his name.

You want to recruit suicide bombers not to attack Israel again this time, but to attack the Christians of the USA and split them from the corrupt Saudi dictatorship (sarcasmo agrees with Osama on the subject of the Saudi dictatorship, BTW, they're NOT our friends as various Presidents seem to think). Doesn't our occasionally bombing or sending cruise missiles -- as Clinton weakly-did, to rabid & irrational bipartisan support -- help Osama in that effort? "The USA destroyed an aspirin-factory!!!" doesn't have to be true, or if it's true doesn't have to be deliberate, to work effectively as a recruiting tool. Young, dead-ender Saudis, who understand (rightly!!) that something's severely-wrong with the leadership of their country, are likely to be motivated to your cause by that kind of thing, and it's understandable IMO in an environment where politics doesn't work for those young people to turn -- sadly -- to extreme-religion and become tools of terror, as 15 out of 19 did that day. It has nothing to do with the simplistic "they hate freedom" explanation that's politically-popular. Violence begats violence, and despite 50 years of claiming to want peace, the USA & Russians have basically spent 50 years trying to become the biggest arms dealer in the mideast, with scant attention to any other form of trade except the all-holy substance, oil. This stands in remarkable contrast to other, much-more-peaceful US military interventions in other places over that same period, such as Korea and Germany, which -- while expensive and unwise long-term IMO -- have been much more of a success because of more of a focus on trade. For me, the best way to peace is always more unfettered trade (see Cuba vs Vietnam). Also, Dr. Paul's campaign points out (to absolute media silence, as usual) the press release I'll paste in next.
JMR

Why Has

Why Hasn’t Rudy Giuliani Read the 9-11 Commission Report?

May 16, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ARLINGTON, VA – During the "First in the South" GOP debate in South
Carolina last night, one thing was made clear: Rudy Giuliani does not
understand how to keep America safe.

When Congressman Ron Paul, who has long served on the House Foreign
Affairs Committee, explained how 50 years of American interventionism
in the Middle East has helped compromise our national security,
Giuliani interrupted saying he had "never heard anything so absurd."
This statement is particularly troubling coming from the former mayor
who tries to cast himself as a security expert, since Dr. Paul's point
comes directly from the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission Report.

"Rudy Giuliani has tip-toed around the issues of abortion, guns and
marriage. The only issue he has left is security, and he doesn't even
get that right," said campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "It is clear from
his interruption that former Mayor Giuliani has not read the 9-11
Commission Report and has no clue on how to keep America safe."

Yes and no sarc

Yes and no sarc. Has Ron Paul ever heard the marine anthem - what the hell does the shores of tripoly mean to him ? How about a date on that one. Not sure Ron Paul could explain ww2 then either.

 Bin Ladens' perpsective is any that can get him into a driver's seat as Islamic Caliphate leader (even or especially of Saudi Arabia - who booted him out ), so basing our foreign policy on some wackos idea of his future glorious leadership isn't any argument for most. Bin Laden is much like a murdering psychopath who claims he should be mayor.

Not only do YOU and EVERYONE ELSE agree with Ron Paul's assessment of Saudi Arabia(and all the other $h**holes GWB outlined in the "spread freedom" plan, that includes Bin Laden's SA false whine ( since we know what his (supported) govey looked like in Afghanistan ) , but YOURS, and RON PAULs idea is effectively the only one that says "to hell with it !" I'm sure that would be great for a while, but by chance - if China and Russia decided to devour it all - and they might - would you or Ronnie jump to the EU's call ( keep in mind at that point Jimmy Carter's gas lines are the good ole days) ?

 The problem with Ron Paul's stance is the actual implementation would have been and probably would be disastrous in the real world, the reason being *to repeat* - although WE - the USA - would be a borders only neutral peacenick place, the rest of the world would continue to be a nation gobbling monster.

I don't fault Ron Paul ( nor you - it's a nice idea), and certainly believe I saw some idiotic dismissal of his polling win on the debate(HUGE BIAS), but as I think through the actual real world outcome, I'm not real keen on it. I don't see the history for it either. We'd be "isolationist" for the first time ever, IMO.

 BTW - I'm not convinced that Rudi didn't read the 911 commission report. I'd more likely conclude he did- and also - as I do - find it very easy to dismiss the wacko binny boys complaint - as a lie and goofball tale - in the real world - where our prescence I conclude ( including our hundreds of billions of petrol dolars) has saved hundreds of billions of MUSLIM lives- and made them BETTER OFF, not worse, as claimed by " sexed-up selection of only bad instances ".

 

 

Hi sarc...The only thing I am

Hi sarc...

The only thing I am going to say about this all is you and my husband would love each other!

I am so tired of arguing about this I refuse to argue anymore....he and I had a long hard one about this last night....lol!

I have agreed with Paul for years about a lot of things believe me, he is an intelligent man, I am in agreement about his fiscal policies, the constitution and other matters, just not this war...or the statement I did hear him make on the House floor about the UN should take care of this....he said this long ago, not recently.

Yeah right...the UN...depend on the UN, the very filthy institution I want us out of.

I do not care what he has said since, I know and have heard what he has said in the past regarding this...he really disappointed me, not just his but other things too, just can't remember all of them now.

I also saw where some Republicans want him out of the debates, I do not think this is right though, at all.

Catch ya when I catch ya friend.

Once again - my Q.

I originally intended this as a Question for the Democrat candidates - had they acted like grown ups and agreed to appear on the Fox debate - but I think that it's a good reflective question for the Republican candidates as well.

"In Jan. 2001 President Bush arrived in the White House in the middle of a historic economic reversal, set in motion by years of excess and much corporate and accounting greed and fraud. He was faced with millions of hard working Americans loosing their jobs and losing their life savings. A well recognized liberal economist, Dean Baker of CEPR, wrote that the financial leadership in the last years of the Clinton administration was the worst since Pres. Herbert Hoover. President Bush, in his first year, was faced with immediate massive federal deficits caused by the economic reversal that started well prior to his watch. Almost all agreed, D's and R's alike, that tax cuts were needed to stimulate the economy - to blunt the ballooning economic catastrophe that was upon us. Do you agree with how Bush led on this?" Or "How would you have handled it differently?

What's going to happen here

Not Tuning In Tonight

I love politics with a passion that sports fans envy, but there's no point in watching this tonight. Until Newt and Thompson throw their hats in the ring this is a waste of time. Rudy is far too liberal to gain the nomination, McCain is unstable and dropping in the polls like a rock.

Fred Thompson already has my vote.

I said months ago to someone

I said months ago to someone that the thing that bothers me most about McCain is the fact that the press seems to like him.  There are 100 Senators, yet McCain gets constant free press from the MSM.  I do not however, wish to disparge his record in Vietnam. 

I agree that McCain's militar

I agree that McCain's military expperience is worthy of respect, but not to the exclusion of his recent actions, i.e. Campaign Reform, Immigration, Gun Control, etc. He has sided with leftists on too many issues and done the bidding of the likes of George Soros. His war record is ancient history and does not give a free pass. Don't forget, Murtha and Kerry have a military history too...

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

I like Fred Thompson, I use

I like Fred Thompson, I use to like Newt, and I am liking Romney more and more. The one thing Romney has over Thompson for me is executive experience.

Newt would make a good secretary choice or advisor, but not President. Rudy is a strong candidate, because he is likable and because he is strong. But Rudy is a bit liberal for me.

Ron Paul maybe more of a constitutionalist, but he is also an isolationist and against the Iraq war. That is a big negative for me.

I would like to see stronger language used on illegal immigration and what needs to be done.

CV, This is what makes the pr

CV, This is what makes the primaries so delicous (to quote Noel..and oh, how I lament the lack of spell check, here). Ooooh, the RINO question. This is getting good. But the "second tier" candidates are looking frantic. Interesting. Wow, Rudy just said "Rudy, Mc Romney". Fred....where are you? Going now, I want to pay attention.

do you discount Fred's two terms in the Senate??

do you discount Fred's two terms in the Senate??

Senate experience is not executive

Senate experience is not executive experience.  The man with the strongest executive experience is Romney.....by far.   Thompson is good, but my 2nd choice.

Like I said I really like Fre

Like I said I really like Fred, he is still my front runner, but its too early to tell. I would like to see him against Romney, I would like to see how he runs his campaign. There is a reason why we have Presidents run a lengthy campaign, it so we can get a glimpse at how they will run the white house.

Newt use to be my guy, but he totally lost me with his play nice with Kerry. The lower tier candidates I don't bother looking at because if they aren't strong enough to make it in the primary, then they aren't strong enough in the general election.

Exactly, CV, I want to see how they develop

Exactly, CV.  My interest in Gingrich also ended when he sold out to AGW and Kerry.   I Iike Thompson and Romney, too, and I want to see how they develop as the campaign unfolds.  Romney has the best creds of any candidate from either side to run the country well, but he has electability questions.  I'm not too worried yet about early opposition, because that's being fanned in part by Dems who fear him.   It's still early, and down the road those electability issues will be answered.

Here is the thing

Here is the thing that just sits on that back of the mind, and makes you wonder. The media is doing everything it can, to try and paint Romney as unelectable. They hammer the Mormon aspect, and they have tried one or two other things, that did not stick. As it is over a year away until the election, the only reasoning they could possibly do this to Romney, is fear of an actual Romney presidential race against the Democrat. The "electability" of Romney, I do not question because the MSM is continually trying to make it an issue. Since they don't want a Republican president, why would they care about electability -- unless they are manufacturing it?


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Leon provides the example right here on this board

And Leon provides the example right here on this board.   When a lib proclaims something, watch your back, because there's always an ulterior motive.

RJ, By best creds you must be

RJ, By best creds you must be referring to his career long fight to support a pro-choice agenda right?

Here is a great site documenting the laundry list of anti-conservative actions during Mitt Romney's long, liberal career.  I enjoy reading about his support of abortion, homosexuals and gun-control.  I'm sure most voters will overlook those minor issues.

Link

No Leon

No Leon, I'm talking about his executive management experience in business and in government.    No other candidate from either side can come close.   That's why Dems fear him.

Dems don't fear Romney.   T

Dems don't fear Romney.   They just find it hilarious that the Republicans are so desperate they're willing to nominate such an obvious liberal.  Anything to win, even if it means sacrificing your beliefs and principles. 

I would expect nothing less from the right.  Do whatever it takes to beat the left

Wow. You ARE desperate, Leon

Wow.  You ARE desperate to kill him, Leon.   Too funny.

yeah RJ you're right as alway

yeah RJ you're right as always.  He doesn't have a well-documented history of liberalism. 

Please, your denial is cute, but bordering on the pathological.  The guys a lib.  The sooner you deal with that the sooner you might actually start supporting an actual Repbulican

New tactic RJ, take one of

New tactic RJ, take one of the best chances for the right and try to prove he is a leftie! I would say "brilliant", but brilliant and the left rarely occurs as two words in the same sentence(cept this one of course). More like just plain lame.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

As a Democrat I'm liking Romn

As a Democrat I'm liking Romney more and more as well CV.

He's a perfect candidate to lose the election.  It's going to be tough for conservatives to vote for a guy that so strongly and so publicly supported gay marriage.  And it will be damn near impossible for conservative CHRISTIANS to vote for a MORMON. 

He would be perfect if you want to hand the election to the Dems so you can pass the buck on the Iraq War.  But if you actually want to win and finish what Bush started, you might want to support a less liberal candidate.

"And it will be damn n

"And it will be damn near impossible for conservative CHRISTIANS to vote for a MORMON"

Hey Leon, why don't you actually try TALKING to a few "Conservative Christians" before making a stupid statement like that?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MMWhy?  I already know how t

MM

Why?  I already know how they feel.  They've made it abundantly clear.    Simple and plain, it goes against everything Christians believe in.  Here's a nice article you should read to learn a thing or two about how conservative christians view mormonism:

Link

Did you ask them if they wo

Did you ask them if they would vote a mormon for president or for pastor of their church?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

I'm not following your line o

I'm not following your line of reasoning as usual. 

Fine put his mormonism aside, will they ignore his blatant liberal career? 

1)  Gay marriage supporter - Romney pushed for governmental recognition of homosexual adoption rights, domestic partnerships and homosexual civil unions.
2)  supported the legalization of RU-486
3)  he supported liberal mayor Rocky Anderson (who called for Bush to be impeached)
4)  his 2002 platform for governor stated: "The choice to have an abortion is a deeply personal one. Women should be free to choose based on their own beliefs, not the government's."
5)  Romney's campaign distributed pro-gay rights campaign literature during Boston's 'Gay Pride' events," issuing pink fliers stating, "Mitt and Kerry [running mate Kerry Healey] wish you a great Pride weekend! All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual preference.
6)  In April 2006 he signed a Universal Healthcare bill into law that would make socialists around the world cheer like crazy

The list goes on and on.  He's a hypocrite and he's not a conservative.  So go ahead and forgo your principles and vote for a liberal.  Fine by me.

Correction

Your words:

1) Gay marriage supporter - Romney pushed for governmental recognition of homosexual adoption rights, domestic partnerships and homosexual civil unions.

Pushing for gay civil unions, is not the same thing as being a gay marriage supporter. Nor is supporting "domestic partnerships", etc. If you want to say that he has been a "Gay rights supporter", then you would be accurate in your statement.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Ok you're right.  But he is

Ok you're right.  But he is a gay marriage supporter:

1)  Romney refused to endorse the original 2002 Mass. constitutional amendment absolutely defining marriage as one man and one women

2)  Romney unnecessarily (and unconstitutionally) implemented homosexual marriages in Massachusetts

3)  Romney had marriage licenses changed to allow same-sex marriages

4)  Romney administration ordered Justices of Peace to perform homosexual "marriages" when asked - or be fired!

5)  Romney administration's training of Town Clerks (on how to issue same-sex marriage licenses) states that marriage statutes were not changed

6)  When requested of him, Romney personally issues special one-day certificates to allow otherwise unqualified people to perform homosexual "marriages"

Link

seriously check out the link.   It has a wealth of evidence based on governmental & public records.  It's all facts.  Romney is a liberal and it's hilarious that he and fellow liberal Rudy might actually be your best chances to win the 08 election

Your points are false

Your points are false.

1. -- Romney is the one who started the latest movement in Mass. to Amend their state Constitution to declare marriage as being between one man and one woman. He sued the state legislature in 2005 to debate and vote on the Amendment proposal, in the state supreme court. The state supreme court sided with Romney, and forced the legislature to vote on the proposal. The legislature voted on the proposal January of this year. It needs only one more affirmative vote in the legislature next year, to be placed on the ballot for the people to vote on, as early as next year. The 2002 Amendment attempt was something he felt was not necessary, since they already had a law on the books declaring marriage as being between a man and a woman. Obviously the court overstepped their bounds again, when they dictated law from the bench

2. -- Wrong. The state supreme courth of Massachusetts declared the original law in Massachusetts as being unconstitutional according to their state Constitution. The law, they claimed, descriminated against homosexuals in the area of marriage. In an effort to rectify the situation, the supreme court of Mass., declared that the legislature must come up with a solution within a set time frame (Goodridge v Department of Public Health), or else gay marriage would be deemed legal by their edict. Romney had nothing to do with this.

3. -- Wrong again. The state supreme court ordered then, that the governor's office enforce their judicial edict. Romney could not violate the orders of the supreme court, and so he ordered relative branches of his government, to make the changes dictated by the court.

4. -- Wrong, on part. Romney was told to order his justices of the peace to marry gays, as the supreme court dictated this to his office. Did he order? Yes, he had to, as that is what the supreme court of the state ordered.

5. -- Don't understand what you are trying to say here. The state statutes DID change when the state supreme court dictated that the state could not descriminate against homosexuals in the area of marriage.

6. -- Where is evidence of your sixth "point"? In addition, where is evidence that he does not do this for heterosexual couples as well? If he does it for both, he is doing as the court dictated.

Your ignorance of what happened in Massachusetts is nothing short of astounding. Did you not pay attention, at all, to the events as they unfolded? Here, instead of reading propoganda from a website who has an entire section set aside on their dislike of Romney, visit here. Usually, I hate wikipedia, but the account of what happened, is completely accurate. In addition, I'd suggest you actually research the internet on the issue of Goodridge v Department of Public Health, and the legal ramifications of the decision, as well as the public opinion surrounding the case.

Now, I have never once said that I advocated Romney's run for president. In fact, your assumption that Guiliani and Romney being the best chances for a win in 2008, is not only false, it blatently takes away the one thing they have, that none of the premier Democrat candidates have -- executive experience. If anyone were to choose Romney or Guiliani as the candidate(s), it would be based upon that -- not their "liberal" issues. They, at least, understand the need for securing the United States, instead of the run attitude of the Democrats.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

I've read your post and I'm s

I've read your post and I'm sorry but I'm still right.  Everything I've said about Romney and Gay Marriage is 100% accurate.

ROFL

You didn't read it! How could you possibly read the post that I have made, which provided facts, with complete and total non-partisan evidence supporting everything I said, and then claim that you are right??!! ROFL!! You are out of touch with reality Leon, and I have always known you were. But to sit there, and claim that you are right, with the evidence pointing in the opposite direction, shows you as more of a fool, and more whacked out, then I could have thought possible.

You keep sitting in your seat, soiled with denial. I don't really care. You have no evidence to back up your claim that Romney supports Gay Marriage. I have provided you with the evidence to the case(s) in question, as well as details on the court case that the supreme court of Massachusetts decided on, to which they overstepped their legal authority and dictated law from the bench... and you still sit there and think you're right? Oh, this is rich... and everyone can see you for what you are -- not only incorrect, but void of intellectual honesty.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

I read it, I just don't see i

I read it, I just don't see it the same way.  I think your posts makes a lot of assumptions that are invalidated by Romney's own, quoted words.

No

My statement was not full of assumptions. My statements were full of the facts of what happened, as documented by the Massachusetts Supreme Court, the media, as well as the State Legislature and the governor's office. Your statements were not based on any evidence, no fact, and nothing truthful.

Try again when you have evidence to contradict the court case provided as being the deciding factor in gay marriage. In addition, try and provide evidence that the court did not force the issue upon the governor's office, and the state legislature. You will be looking until the world ends -- because those are the facts of the issue -- not what you think you know -- exactly what I provided for you.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

But you're always right are

But you're always right aren't you Leon? Mr. Bishop you have wasted your time with Leon, but I for one, appreciated your post.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Yeah, Mr. B. Leon got it from the horse's ass, er, mouth

Yeah, Mr. B.  Forget your factual fisking of his post.  Leon "says" he's right, so he's right.   He got it from the horse's ass, er, mouth of some leftist blog, so it MUST be right.....

Why is it that the ONLY peo

Why is it that the ONLY people who bring up the "Mormon" issue is the left? Look at the MSNBC debates, two questions from Matthspews to Romney about religion. Last night's debate NONE! You know why? It's is irrelevant to the discussion. Yet the left just loves to bring it up and try to keep the non-issue an issue.

Most every Christian I have talked to or heard from on the subject is smart enough to know that Romneys religion will not be running the country if he is elected. A plain and simple fact that either escapes you OR (more likely) you agree but in a disingenuousfashion bring it up anyhow. Which is it? Does this simple concept escape you or are you disingenuous?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

he's only saying what's obvious

Dear Mighty:

Leon's agenda notwithstanding; he's pretty accurate in the assessment of Romney's chances. I don't like Leon's language, but he sees an obvious disadvantage Romney can't overcome.

Not because many Christians won't dare vote for him; many surely would, rather than for Hillary. But the GOP won't nominate somebody like him; just because of the perceptions of so many Americans. Politics are about winning, not pleasing everybody.

To take a national election the best candidate UNITES his followers, and Romney by simple evaluation can't do it. Worse; if the party chooses him, we would suffer almost as if a third party were helping the Democrats, as Perot helped them. Not enough faithful partisans would turn out, feeling that their candidate has no chance. The solid candidate has to inspire CONFIDENCE in all the voters. Romney would shake the confidence of too many of us. I think that's a choice the party's electorate won't take; they'll look for another guy.

Well, tumbler you may be ri

Well, tumbler you may be right, but there is still plenty of campaign and debate left. Romny is coming on strong as people see and hear him. Now myself, I haven't made my mind up yet. I just hope the party isn't petty enough to marginalize a man because of his denomination of christianity. (ie: JFK!)

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Evangelical Christians are ce

Evangelical Christians are certainly petty enough and you know it.  Pretend all you want but they are not tolerant of other religions, especially not in the position of president and especially

Again, MM, his religion is irrelevant when you actually look at his liberal record.  He's a liberal seizing an opportunity to be president, Bloomberg style.

And you are obviously a bigot

And you are obviously a bigot.

the facts are:

Leon's speaking his mind and he's sticking to the truth.

Liberals aren't less capable of figuring out all the political angles. Leon knows just as we all know; the Bible Belt voters WON'T turn out en masse for anyone who remotely resembles a Mormon. I said en masse. And, if you can't win in most of the southern states, the election is lost. Even Kennedy barely squeaked in over Dick Nixon; and he had a Texas PRO on his ticket to help capture some southern states. Otherwise, enough anti-Catholic opposition from the South would've doomed his bid for the White House. -- In some ways, Lyndon Johnson won it for JFK; for all that was worth.

Wow, they come in pairs.

Wow, they come in pairs.

Political bedfellows

Political bedfellows...

Clueless political bedfellows

Clueless political bedfellows.

Triplicate!  I'm definitely

Triplicate!  I'm definitely not a bigot, my favorites for the Republican primary at this point are(in no particular order, it is early after all) Romney, Huckabee, Giuliani, and Thompson(if he runs).  I just happen to know Evangelicals that have told me they would never vote for a Mormon.  I have a feeling that it's more of a knee jerk reaction because the 'idea' is so new to them.  I think some of them could eventually get behind him on the basis of shared morales.

Ask them if they would vote

Ask them if they would vote for a ...gulp!... Catholic!!!!! If they say "yes of course". Then ask: "What's the difference, do you want the pope running the country"?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Catholicism and Evangelical C

Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity use the same book and tout the same general beliefs.  One God, One son Jesus, etc.

It's not even close to Mormonism.  Your comparison is irrelevant.

Tumbler?? Care to take this

Tumbler?? Care to take this one???

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Ingorance

I have corrected this ingnorant statement repeatedly, and I will do it again...

Mormons use the Bible, so the previous statement is false. Second, they also believe in on God, one son Christ, and the Holy Ghost as well.

Your comparison is false.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Heck, I'm not a Mormon and I knew that

Heck, I'm not a Mormon and I knew that, Mr. B.  These people must all be reading the same bigoted hate-blog....

So how does Joseph Smith and

So how does Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon jibe with Christianity?

What?

What does this question have to do, anything, with your original statement? Stop trying to modify what you said. I corrected your ignorant statement.

However -- how does Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon NOT jibe with Christianity? Christianity is defined as, "the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches." First, note the word, "including". Second, as I pointed out last night, when given those three choices, Mormons fall under the Protestant category of Christianity. In any event, Christianity is a religion that follows the teachings of Christ. The LDS church does this. As such, your question has been answered.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

you're half-informed, Leon

"The same book" I take it, is the Holy Bible ?

Yes; except that evangelicals have a FETISH known as the Bible; over which they lavish all the worship one would associate with idolatry.

Catholics know who canonized the same Book. Out of a raft of holy books, our bishops isolated and certified the proper ones revealed to be inspired; truly coming to the Church from God. The Holy Spirit. Church councils determined for all Christians what God had revealed; ratified it forever as written revelation. Standing equally important was Christ's Holy Church and her Sacred Tradition. Tradition just as true, verified in the Holy Spirit every bit as infallible as the Bible.

Evangelicals won't accept it; since Tradition cuts their legs off from under their faith. They believe the Bible is the SOLE rule of Christian faith. --A huge ERROR; since nothing inside the Bible substantiates this false notion. Christ gave Christians an infallible guide to all the truth and ONLY its truth; written in the Holy Bible: the Catholic Church. That being the Church mortal men decided they should "reform" without any authority granted from above. All were heretics. NOT ONE was genuinely chosen by God to do anything so idiotic as reform what Christ had started and nurtured for over 1,400 years. Such is hubris in the human soul. They would correct what Jesus called His Church. As if it were merely an estate or a property.

And that's why --no other reason, that's why they're now numbered in the twenty-thousands of autonomous, free-lance, erroneous sects and denominations calling themselves "believers" --all claiming to understand the meanings of scripture. Not only evangelicals. Mormons as well. There is no end to how badly men can mislead other men. Christ knew how to unite men under His divine protection. The Catholic Church overseen and guided by the Holy Spirit. Mere men undertook to change Christ's Church.

I'm not suggesting the denominational Christian has abandoned ALL the truth. They keep many crucial doctines first found in the Church. But they've also scrapped some of the holiest doctrines. It shows clearly, in the way they drift from sin into more sin. Why else do we have widespread divorce, abortion and all those abandoned children and elderly, who die alone in some disgraceful rest home ? No charity; no grace coming from their churches. I hate to say it so bluntly. But it has to be said.

you never disappoint tumble

you never disappoint tumbler...

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

It really does amaze me, th

It really does amaze me, that you are truly unable to post a single post on the issue of Catholicism, without being able to condemn every non-Catholic for being heretics. Ever thought to perhaps, defend your religion, without persecuting everyone else? It's, truly, a good thing that I don't do that as well -- or else, in the last 2 weeks, I would have been persecuting you, as well as Debra, as well as everyone else. Instead of replying in the manner in which you do, try, just once -- just responding to the subject of religion, without your holier-than-thou attitude.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Catholicism isn't the issue

No, Sir;

You call it my issue; but I have no choice except to remind the clueless here; Christ never founded those free-lance churches our happy campers are always enthusing over. He founded ONE, and it stays above the horizons on every land and at sea since 33 A.D.; still winning souls for Jesus Christ. Those who abandoned His only authorized Church did it as pure heretics. You can't make these things UP !

Many today, who aren't the heretics, have been indoctrinated by ministers and books tracing back to the heretic "reformers." They really aren't to blame; unless they investigate the Church and subsequently reject her. It isn't simple or easy to persuade people like Debra, or Mighty Mouth or others; INVESTIGATE the origins and teachings of the Catholic Church. They'll dispute; they'll deny. Their pride won't let them ! Many were brain-washed into believing every known evil about Catholics. And who gets accused here, of being "holier-than-thou ?" The one who speaks 100% truth to them ! It's not a truth I concocted; it's the APOSTLES truth. It hasn't died, and it never will, as long as there's a GOD.

That's what I mean about it b

That's what I mean about it being 'a knee jerk reaction'.  I've heard praise for Brownback(a Catholic) and Lieberman(a Jew).  They've got this strange 'cult' hang up, but it's mainly a fear of the unknown.

There may be something to wha

There may be something to what you're saying.  An interesting point is the moderating influence that the nominee for Vice President can bring.  If Romney were to get the Republican nomination it would be interesting to see who he'd choose as a running mate.  Huckabee, a Baptist minister, could possibly help to secure the south in a big way.

I'm not a bigot, but many Eva

I'm not a bigot, but many Evangelical Christians are.

Traditionally intolerant is the Evangelical movement.  Sorry don't know what to tell you.

Now we know that you're an ig

Now we know that you're an ignorant bigot.  But then that's redundant, as by definition, being a bigot, you must be ignorant.

How exactly am I a bigot?  

How exactly am I a bigot?   I'm not following.  I'm simply stating facts.

You obviously harbor deep pre

You obviously harbor deep prejudices against Christians.

No not at all.  I myself am

No not at all.  I myself am a regular, church-going Presbyterian.

I do harbor a strong belief that Evangelicals Christians are intolerant based on experience and a myriad of examples from the world of politics and society. 

Furthermore, your statement is disingenuous in the sense that i've made it clear I was talking about one specific group of Christians.

So you just dislike "Eva

So you just dislike "Evangelical" Christians