I got into a pretty good discussion with my sister the other day, and I am fascinated by the ways certain battles change history. In my opinion the Battle of Hastings and Stalingrad are the 2 most influential battles of all time. I had argued with her that I thought Stalingrad beat out Hastings, but barely. I knew there were many many reasons that Hastings could be the most influential, but I took Stalingrad, because it marked the decline of the German offensive on the Eastern Front. They lost 250,000 soldiers to death or capture. The Germans were instructed to fight to the death, but 90,000 surrendered, of which only 5,000 survived the conlusion of the war. The Germans launched another offensive later called Operation Citadel, which was a huge undertaking in which the battle of Kursk took place. For those who like tanks I would suggest researching about this battle. It is the largest tank battle ever. This offensive failed as well, and they were in retreat afterwards. After the defeat of Stalingrad, the Germans had to continue to send many men and supplies to the Eastern Front. If Stalingrad had been a victory for them, they could have used many of the men and supplies they were sending to the Eastern Front, to the Western Front, and this would have created much more difficulties for the Allies in the West. Their defense in the West could have been much more formidable with those extra troops and supplies, and the outcome of the Western Front could have been much different. I think Stalin's paranoia would also affect the Soviets, because if he lost the city named after him, I think serious heads would have rolled at the Kremlin. The Battle of Moscow is also a very significant battle on the Eastern Front as well, as that also stopped the German offensive. So in the end I barely pick Stalingrad over Hastings, based on my opinion that WW2 takes on a whole new outlook if the Germans are victorious there. I thought I would open up this forum for those who are intersted in listing what you might think the most influential battle of all time is and why. You can really go back as far as you want, and say if this battle hadn't occured and these people been victorious, then you never even would have had a Stalingrad, and I concur with that, but I think the Germans have a very good chance of controlling Europe if they win at Stalingrad.
I won't steal any of the thunder one might have for all the reasons why Hastings is the most influential, but for those that pick Hastings and think I'm crazy, just remember I only picked Stalingrad by a hair over Hastings.
So feel free to list your most influential battle of all time if you wish, and the reasons why.
|
|
home blogs about forum contact search account 
“Exposing & Combating Liberal Media Bias”
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Most influential battle of all time 
Read comments
Related StoriesMost Emailed Stories
Related Topics |
Editors’ Picks
Poll
MastheadEditor
Senior Editors Managing Editor Associate Editor Contributing Editors Contributing Writers Editorial Associate Publisher 
|
|
[ Home | Blogs |
Forum |
About |
Contact
]
| |
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
I'd say either the battle o
May 10, 2007 - 04:22 ET by CCCPI'd say either the battle of tours or the battle of teutoburgwald forest
Tours (because it saved Europe from Muslim expansion)
and Teutoburgwald Forest because it seperated latinized people from germanic peoples and it stopped the Roman Advance.
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
Both very good
May 10, 2007 - 10:20 ET by Carl KolchakExcellent points CCCP.
The Romans were defeated by barbarians at the Rhine, and this halted their spread into Western Europe. The Romans lost 15,000 soldiers and Arminius who led the barbarians, had the Romans heads nailed to trees for psychological reasons.
Christian Franks defeated Muslims at Tours. Had the Muslims won they could have advanced into Europe, without much resistance, and Europe's future history would have been dominated by Islam rather than Christianity from that point forward.
Gettysburg
May 10, 2007 - 10:22 ET by JimboIs this discussion limited to Europe or WWII?
If not, I think you need to put Gettysburg near the top of the list. Had the Confederates won that battle, the Union would not have been preserved, and in the long run, in my hones opinion, neither would this country in the manner it did. Extrapolating that out, the world itself would likely be a very different place.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Jimbo, you can go back as far
May 10, 2007 - 10:27 ET by Carl KolchakJimbo, you can go back as far as you want, or from wherever you want.
I think Antietam and Gettysburg are the 2 most influential battles of the American Civil War, so Gettysburg definatly is one of the most influential in American history.
"Four score and seven years ago..."Abraham Lincoln
I'd have to go with Hastings,
May 11, 2007 - 01:39 ET by UnsaneI'd have to go with Hastings, the defeat of the Spanish Armada, and Tours.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Those are pretty good Unsane.
May 13, 2007 - 01:29 ET by Carl KolchakThose are pretty good Unsane. What's your reason for the Spanish Armada? I think if they had been successful, they could have launched a massive land invasion into England. Catholocism could have put done the Protestants, and Catholocism could have remained the dominant religion of Europe.
I learned some interesting things about Hastings in a book about the Dark Ages in England ahwile back. I didn't know there was another battle prior to Hastings that involved Harold Godwinson. Prior to Harold Godwinson facing William the Conquerer, he had to first defeat Harald a Viking from Norway. This battle took place clear on the other side of England, and Harold Godwinson's brother had allied with the Vikings. Harold Godwinson defeated Harald, and then had to hightail it back to the other side of England to face William. Harold's body was so mutiliated after the Battle of Hastings, that the only way they could identify him was by tattoos he had. I also have heard that some scholars think a tapestry might show that he wasn't the one with the arrow in his eye, but I think this has been dismissed by many scholars, and the consensus thinking is that Harold did in fact get shot in the eye with an arrow. It's truely amazing how much world history was changed as a result of Hastings, but in the end I still think Stalingrad changed everything in Europe during WW2, and this is a bigger influence than Hastings.
On 1588
May 15, 2007 - 05:46 ET by UnsaneThink about it: the defeat of the Spanish Armada essentially removed all naval competition for England, allowing them to rule the high seas. The long term result of the Spanish Armada defeat was the opening of the world to English commerce and colonialization.
Could Catholicism remained the dominant religion of Europe? Remember that at that point more than 60 years had passed since the issuance of Luther's 95 Theses. The breach very much existed and would remain with or without England, IMHO, especially with such measures as the Peace of Augsburg which allowed Lutheranism to flourish in regions of Germany, and the existence of the printing press.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
It's unbelievable how under
May 14, 2007 - 23:33 ET by CCCPIt's unbelievable how underrated Tours is, also battle on lake peipus, battle of chateauguay river, the horns of hattin, and the battle of manzikert are some notables.
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
All of these battles have bee
May 14, 2007 - 23:48 ET by Roger the ShrubberAll of these battles have been pivotal and important. I would add alongside the Battle of Tours, the Battle of Vienna in the 17th century, because the Ottomans were stopped. Vienna, if I remember correctly, was the hub of Europe, and if the Turks got control of the city, they controlled the trade routes of Europe, and the Danube. The Battle of Lake Peipus was also a cool choice!
But, personally, I think the Battle of the Network Stars to be the most important battle of all time.
They don't have cool shows like that anymore
May 15, 2007 - 00:50 ET by Carl KolchakRoger, unfortunately they don't have cool programs like "Battle of the Network Stars" or "Laugh Olympics" where all the cartoon characters used to compete against each other. Captain Caveman was sure a tough one to beat in "Laugh Olympics". That dog Muttley's team was always cheating though. Remember the "SCTV" episode that was battle of the PBS stars? That was great. Mr. Rogers versus Julia Childs in a boxing match.
Carl
May 15, 2007 - 01:40 ET by shawn228Carl you are even more of TV show Jedi than myself. Remeber Muttley's laugh?
Muttley's laugh was great
May 15, 2007 - 10:21 ET by Carl KolchakMuttley's laugh was great. They had pretty cool cartoons back then. Remember Dynomutt?
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
The siege of 1683 was quite h
May 15, 2007 - 05:50 ET by UnsaneThe siege of 1683 was quite half-hearted, though (only lasted 17 days). The Ottomans were already on the decline at that point, due to various tax policies and the unpredictable lines of succession (the Ottomans simply didn't believe in prima geniture, and even if they did, due to the practice of having more than one wife, AND having harems, that further complicated the succession situation).
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I'm going to have to go with
May 15, 2007 - 12:54 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveI'm going to have to go with the War of the Ring between the armies of Sauron and the armies of the free peoples of Middle-Earth.
Although Celebrity Deathmatch ranks up there too.
"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt
Did you ever see the short movie "Bambi versus Godzilla"
May 15, 2007 - 13:19 ET by Carl KolchakDid you ever see the short short movie "Bambi versus Godzilla"? If not, it was a very short match.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
LOL! Absolutely no contest. I
May 15, 2007 - 14:35 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveLOL! Absolutely no contest. I had forgotten about that one!
"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt
I think the Battle of Trent
May 15, 2007 - 00:29 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveI think the Battle of Trenton (December 17, 1776) in the American Revolution was one of the most influential battles of the war. The hardships endured by the Continental Army, the weather, and despite all the obstacles and difficulties how well Washington was able to pull off the surprise attack. It was not only a military victory, but a huge psychological victory for the Continental Army to defeat Johann Rall and the feared Hessians. It was this point of the war when the Continental Army began to stand their ground rather than being run off the battlefields. Future successes were a result of the victory at Trenton.
"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt
I think I'd have to take Saratoga
May 15, 2007 - 00:47 ET by Carl KolchakGood stuff Mean Gene, but I think I'd have to pick Saratoga as the turning point of the Revolutionary War. The Battle of Saratpoga prevented the British from dividing the colonies, and boosted morale for the Continental Army. France now believed the Americans could win, and they threw in their support. Without that French support who knows what happens.
eh....France didn't really do
May 15, 2007 - 06:50 ET by CCCPeh....France didn't really do that much the war would've been won
except it would've lasted a couple of years. The Battle of Bun'ei is
one changed history an underlooked one is the Battle of Nineveh. I can
continue to name all these lesser known ones but the top 5 (not in any
order) would be
-Hastings
-Tours
-Chalons
-DDay
-Napoleans Invasion of Russia (which led to Battle of Nations) hard to qualify
some notables: Stalingrad Waterloo Manzikert Midway First Battle of the Marne and Adrianople
Stalingrad-America was already in the war, and Germany troops suffered too much from the hardships
Waterloo-Napolean didn't have enough troops to defend France if he won that battle
Manzikert-The Turks didn't destroy the Byzantine Empire for another 400
years and the Seljuks would crumble and it didnt have immediate effects
Midway-The Japanese still controlled most of the islands
Marne-Germany was halted but the Allies didn't advance like they
should've plus the German defensive trenches were heavily built. But it
still preserved France.
Adrianople-The Goths were eventually put into insignificance and their land was retaken
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
Good list CCCP
May 15, 2007 - 10:27 ET by Carl KolchakVery good list CCCP, however I think France's navy and their involvement at York were instrumental.
At York, Rochambeau French general assisted. Cornwallis’s aide originally tried to give the sword to him, but he pointed towards G. Washington. After Yorktown, the United States starting growing and changing. The American Revolution led towards future revolutions and destroyed France’s economy, because they had given so much monetary aid to help, that it caused problems for them. York might be the most influential battle of all time for Americans.
Speaking of Napoleon check out Leipzig.
Napoleon was defeated by an allied coalition Largest armed clash in history up to that point. After Russian Campaign, Napoleon built up his army Napoleon could never recover, and the allies combined to defeat him, and it is also called Battle of the Nations.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
The money and munitions Franc
May 15, 2007 - 12:35 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveThe money and munitions France supplied helped the American Revolutionaries tremendously. Without either I highly doubt we would have defeated England.
There are similarities today...the terrorists continue to operate because of the funding the receive from their supporters. If the money dried up we would make quicker progress in ridding the world of them.
I believe that the United States exists because of France's "small" involvement in the Revolutionary War (even if it was only out of spite toward England). I also believe that France continues to exist because of the United States (WWI and WWII) so any debt we may have owed to France has been paid in full.
"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt
I Think my list is pretty s
May 15, 2007 - 14:14 ET by CCCPI Think my list is pretty solid though, it's hard to find a battle that changed history like that but those 5 are pretty solid i'd say nice topic always fun to show off my historical knowledge
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
Very good stuff CCCP
May 16, 2007 - 00:57 ET by Carl KolchakYes, your lists are very good, and very good stuff about Chalons. I think Attila died from a nosebleed. Please elaborate on some of those other battles you listed that weren't well known. I would be interested in learning about those, and please don't use any backwards curse words.haha.
Here are some other battles that were very influential as well.
Tenochtitlan. Hernan Cortes conquered the Aztecs. He allied with many tribes who opposed the Aztecs and learned aobut Quetzalcoatl a light skinned bearded person who taught them about agriculture and government. Spain was trying to have Cortes arrested for overstepping his boundaries, but once they realized how much wealth he had aquired, he was ok. Cortes victory lead to Spanish rule of Central America for 300 years, and Spain was the most powerful country in the world until the defeat of the Spanish Armada.
Cajamarca. Pizarro faced 30,000+Incas. Atahualpa thought he was a deity, and wasn’t impressed with Pizarro’s small force, so he only sent 3 or 4 thousand to face Pizarro. Pizarro attacked and surprised them, and he was the only casualty with a wound he suffered. As a result of his actions, Pizaro conquered more than half of South America and this lead to Spanish rule of South America for 3 Centuries.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
carl, cccp, mean gene---great stuff
May 16, 2007 - 01:08 ET by misterbillcarl, cccp, mean gene---great stuff. I am familiar with a few. My next few days will be filled with researching the others. I will read the "Song of Roland".
PS I do think England would have prevailed if not for the help of the French. I know you gents are better students than I--but---I was there!
Don't forget those battles with Sluggo
May 16, 2007 - 01:17 ET by Carl KolchakYeah this type of history really is mind boggling isn't it. Just imagine what would have happened if Harold hadn't taken an arrow in the eye at Hastings. We wouldn't even be conversing in English for one thing.
Also, don't forget those Sluggo versus Mr. Bill battles either. They don't have quality television like that anymore now do they?
"Oh Noooooooooooooooo!!!!"
most influentel battle
May 16, 2007 - 01:43 ET by DemonhunterCarl, you make a great case for Stalingrad, and I agree that without the Germans being tied up in the east, victory in the west was more than questionable.
However, I think you have all overlooked the battle of deception and wits, the "bodyguard of lies", the disinformation and intelligence war mounted by Intrepid. The Normandy landing was a dicey affair and nearly a miss as it is. Had Hitler not been persuaded to send more assets to counter the expected landings by Patton at the Pas de Calais, there likely would have been no western front.
A lie well told and believed is mightier than the sword.
If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons
Great stuff Demonhunter
May 16, 2007 - 15:42 ET by Carl KolchakGreat point about the Allies faking out Hitler by making him think the actual invasion was coming somewhere else on D-Day. In my opinion military history is so fascinating, because you can always ponder many "what if's". Who knows what happens if D-Day hadn't been successful, or what if Rommel hadn't killed himself, or what if the Italians had been more competent. I'm not an expert by any means on the Eastern Front, but from what I've learned it seems extremly extremly horrific. The weather conditions, the treatment of civilians, the treatment by both sides against each other, the treatment of prisoners by both sides, etc. is mind boggling. There was a very intense hatred. I read a book not too long ago called "Stalin's Folly: The Tragic First Ten Days of WW2 on the Eastern Front", in which the author claimed the Soviets suffered over 500,000 casualties in the first ten days. Trying to comprehend over 500,000 casualties in 10 days is very difficult for me.
There's a pretty good magazine I like to checkout periodically called "Armchair General" and in their last issue they had a very good article about Stalingrad. I had read some other books that talked about it in the past, but this article was also very informative. If you like military history, you might want to check your local bookstore for the current edition.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
Has anyone considered the str
May 19, 2007 - 01:46 ET by NL207Has anyone considered the struggle between Good and Evil?