The co-hosts on "The View" discussed the recent reports of the wage gap between men and women. Co-hosts Rosie O’Donnell and Joy Behar wondered why that story is even news. Elisabeth Hasselbeck noted that the gap begins immediately after college despite women’s higher marks in testing.
ROSIE O’DONNELL: And did you hear in the news? They’re reporting this like it's new news, which I think is funny. There is a gender pay gap in America.
JOY BEHAR: Shocking, shocking.
O’DONNELL: Women make less than men. [slapping forehead] Zoinks!
ELISABETH HASSELBECK: You know what I didn’t realize thought was right out of college, right at the jump that women are making less than men. I think they said-
BEHAR: 20 percent less.
HASSELBECK: 20 percent less than men. And they’re also– Which is odd because women said in the same study to test higher in every single major in college. So they’re leaving with higher than all of their male counterparts but yet making 20 percent less.
O’DONNELL: 20 percent?
HASSELBECK: 20 percent, yes.
O’DONNELL: Wow.
Although the "wage gap" is true, it does not tell the entire story. The co-hosts failed to mention that women in the same profession as men actually earn slightly more than men. In recent review of Warren Farrell’s book, Why Men Earn More, columnist John Leo noted these statistics.
"Women are 15 times as likely as men to become top executives in major corporations before the age of 40. Never-married, college-educated males who work full time make only 85 percent of what comparable women earn. Female pay exceeds male pay in more than 80 different fields, 39 of them large fields that offer good jobs, like financial analyst, engineering manager, sales engineer, statistician, surveying and mapping technicians, agricultural and food scientists, and aerospace engineers. A female investment banker's starting salary is 116 percent of a male's. Part-time female workers make $1.10 for every $1 earned by part-time males."
Why do men earn more overall? Mainly because they’re more likely to take a job where the market demands higher pay. Leo also noted these statistics.
"Farrell argues that many men outearn women by a willingness to take risky and dangerous jobs as well as work that exposes them to stress and bad weather or that requires a transfer to an undesirable location in another city or country. Women are more likely than men to pick glamorous jobs that tend to pay less. A London School of Economics study tracking 10,000 post-1993 United Kingdom graduates from 30 universities found that males were earning 12 percent more than women. The men tended to stress salary and were more likely to take up engineering, math, and computing. The women were more apt to seek socially oriented jobs and as undergraduates had favored majors in education and the arts."
In fairness, Barbara Walters did briefly mentioned it, but quickly dismissed it as "ridiculous" then implied her disdain for the free market.
"It said that they study different things that they don't study the high paying jobs and that's ridiculous because we’re back to what you study and what you don't study and so on."
—Justin McCarthy is a news analyst at Media Research Center.



















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On which side this equation d
April 23, 2007 - 14:17 ET by Gat New YorkOn which side this equation does Rosie consider herself?
I am sooo tired of this subje
April 23, 2007 - 14:26 ET by bigtimerI am sooo tired of this subject.
I am for equal pay for same job if you are qualified to do it.
...always have been...other than that, this is over thirty year old news now.
Move on....please whine somewhere else.
They also don't state that wo
April 23, 2007 - 14:37 ET by Ryeguy5049They also don't state that women are more than likely to take a couple of years off to raise their kids. Women also don't haggle on salary rates as often as men do.
Howdy Rye...If you take a job
April 23, 2007 - 15:00 ET by bigtimerHowdy Rye...
If you take a job, agree to the pay, sign a deal of any kind with you knowing what the terms are, then you have nothing to cry about...either work up, look for something better while employed, haggle if you want, I did with pay depending on job...had no problems either...I am tired of this worn out subject.
Women like the NOW group just keep trying to keep this issue alive, generation after generation, as if it is a new subject.
Nice post, Justin. However,
April 23, 2007 - 15:05 ET by Tony SNice post, Justin. However, I would have preferred to see this new "wage gap" story deconstructed at the source. The story is based around a study by a group called the American Association of University Women -- definitely a partisan group. Definitely a group with an agenda.
Had this been a non-partisan study by a group with no vested interest in the outcome, it would have warranted the reporting it got. Instead, the writers who reported on this study did not question the source. Nor did they get another point of view. The reporting on this "study" was instewad breathless and hysterical, as can be expected.
I have a hard time believing
April 23, 2007 - 15:59 ET by MobiusStripI have a hard time believing that such a wage discrepency exists. I make my living hiring professional level technical people, usually as a third party consultant, and I've worked with many large (and small) companies. Every company I've worked with in the last 10 years has guidelines in place designating pay ranges for new grads, for years of experience, for educational assets, for job experience reletive to the job description, etc. I did walk from one company whose owner was clearly bigoted against women, and I wouldn't doubt he got himseld sued in the long run- but that was the clear exception. It would be hard for a company to knowingly design or promote policies that would result in a 20% wage discrepency. Especially with entry level applicants, as the judgement on salary is and only can be based on educational achievement and market values for such. Furthermore, women do not negotiate with any less voice than men- often the opposite is true, as they know, at least in the technical professions, that their ratios of gender representation is low and many companies have active recruitment goals in place for women and minorites. I've actually been instructed to concentrate on women applicants, because, to quote (from a senior white male manager) : "Find me some sharp women- we're too Wonder Bread and Velveeta here". Most companies now also understand that a team consisting of a mixed-bag of genders and ethnic backgrounds is the best way to get multiple perspectives into the work product- creating a better product and work environment. I can say that in the '80's this was a problem, but I can give you this as more than an anecdotal understanding.
I have some experience in thi
April 23, 2007 - 16:15 ET by Clear thinkerI have some experience in this arena and will share my observations.
It has been my experience that women and men do not mix well in upper management positions.
A woman holding a top position works well, or a man holding the top position.
And a woman and man mix in lower management postions, and even down to the grunt level works well.
As far as pay goes...if you did the job that was expected, you got paid well no matter your sex.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
It has been my experience tha
April 23, 2007 - 16:25 ET by MobiusStripIt has been my experience that women and men do not mix well in upper management positions.
Good observation: I totally agree. I would argue that this is because management style- and especially communication of the superior-subordinate arrangement- is handled entirely differently by the genders. At top management levels, the ego is paramount, and the divergence of these styles create frictions and threaten the egos. This is why so much Aumerican upper management is in a constant state of turmoil. Each gender tries to engender it's own style of management and control throughout the organization, and this alone creates massive clash. At the mid-manager level, competion exists, but bonds are still in place. This is because you have to show your ability to work with other managers to grab the brass ring. There are endless exaples of this in the corporate world, especially in the larger, emerging-technology companies where the CEO can put his/her imprimatur on bot the stretegic direction and culture of a young company.
Mobius...It give me pause to
April 23, 2007 - 16:33 ET by Clear thinkerMobius...
It give me pause to know you agree with me.
With that said...besides ego, I have found that men and women in upper management positions have a problem with keeping their pants on when around each other. If the man get's caught in the affair he usually comes out of it ok. On the other hand, when the woman gets caught it creates absolute personal havoc, and ends up effecting their job performance.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Not sure why I would give pau
April 23, 2007 - 17:23 ET by MobiusStripNot sure why I would give pause to you, other than you know I came from a different perspective on many topics here. But you make another interesting observation, which ties into underlying social more's that men are given more leeway in their indiscretions, precisely because they are men; women are yet to show more virtue in their decisions regarding sexual choices. A very traditional view of things. I think that the basic power-and-sex-and-reproduction equations of social mammalian animals come to the fore here: an alpha male meets an alpha female, best of both worlds, but he still might eat her young. The Lion's Way. I wonder what will come of the Wolfowitz- "girlfriend" affair: he may fall on his sword for that, but in this case the blame will be placed on him as the person in power. And is there an equivalent phrase to "Womanizer?" Gold-digger, maybe, but that assumes the man is an alpha and the woman is not. Yet, it takes two to tango... what think you?
How ironic that these four w
April 23, 2007 - 15:03 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveHow ironic that these four women choose to discuss this when each one of them probably makes at least 10 times the amount (or 1000%) that the average American man makes.
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then toss it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you asked for in the first place!" --Bill McNeal, NewsRadio episode 3.17
Women generally don't make
April 23, 2007 - 15:09 ET by motherbeltWomen generally don't make as much as men because they tend to take time off to have kids, they don't want to to take the jobs that require travel and working weekends, and in general they don't want to put in the long, hard hours that men do. I would challenge anyone to show one instance of a woman who has done exactly the same job for the same hours as a man for the same length of time, who earns less than the man for doing it. If that were true, why on earth would any company hire men?????
Motherbelt- please read my po
April 23, 2007 - 16:11 ET by MobiusStripMotherbelt- please read my post above. While career disruption will create a Go-back-to-start loss of salary continuity in a career, I don't see any large evidence of career-minded women that work less than their male counterparts. It's wrong for a company to pay someone less on the assumption a woman will bow out, but as long as she is doing her job with equal capability, companies today pay to equal levels. That's why I disagree with this alleged discrepancy.
They want equal pay? Join t
April 23, 2007 - 15:20 ET by slayerwatcherThey want equal pay? Join the United States Armed Forces. The guy slinging hash at the dining facility in Ft Hood, TX makes the same amount of money as an equally ranked woman turning a wrench in the vehicle maintenance depot in Baghdad.
I served 7 years in the USAF in a highly technical career field dealing with extremely sensitive material that was vital to our national security. My training lasted more than 12 months. That was eight hours per day, five days a week for over a year. I had to obtain and maintain a Top Secret security clearance. This required an extensive background investigation. After all was said and done, I still made the same amount of money as the girl handing out towels at the base gym. Her training lasted an exhausting two weeks.
Now I work in the private sector. I'm doing the same job that I was doing in the AF, but I'm making double the money. Don't want to join the military? Take your chances in the corporate world. That's all I have to say about that.
the view
April 23, 2007 - 15:23 ET by charlietexasDear Justin, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for watching the View, so the rest of don't have to. What do you do after the show?? Take a shower?? Drink vodka?? Wash your ears out?? I can only take about 5 min's of this crap from these stupid women.....even little Lizzy. So....I'll pray for your mental health and wellbeing. Thanks again........from texas
I second that emotion....and
April 23, 2007 - 15:29 ET by bigtimerI second that emotion....and Amen to that charlie!
Charlie, thanks for the words
April 23, 2007 - 16:12 ET by Justin McCarthyCharlie, thanks for the words of encouragement. I usually run after to work to keep my sanity, but now I strained my achilles so I'm restricted to running in the deep end of the pool. I don't like vodka, but if I want to enjoy a good happy hour after work there are several really nice Irish pubs within walking distance of the office.
Rosie, I'm sorry
April 23, 2007 - 16:07 ET by Cool ArrowFour White Women with varying pay levels have all the answers. They won't even mention the Peterless Principle Perky Katie Couric suffers under.
Can we get Sheryl Crow added to the View?
The View
April 23, 2007 - 18:56 ET by charlietexasNo matter how annoying these women are, I say keep talking. It just shows how unhinged the liberals are. Men and women.......They should add Roseann Barr to the View. that would top it off.
Every one of these stories ab
April 24, 2007 - 07:30 ET by Tom PaineEvery one of these stories about the so called wage gap conveniently ignores the fact that women earn less because of the choices they make, and I don’t just mean leaving the job to have children. It is no secret that an Engineering major makes more money than an Art History major. Yet the Engineering majors are overwhelmingly male and the Art History majors are overwhelmingly female.
There is no National Guard at the schoolhouse door preventing women from entering technical fields; it is the women themselves who prefer entering the softer sciences. (Oh, sorry, we’re not supposed to notice that.) Get ready for “Comparable Worth” to rear its ugly head once again with a sympathetic congress in charge. This would put the government in charge of setting wages so that the female daycare worker will be put on a par with the male accountant and the waitress will be equated with a doctor.
I am old enough to remember back when women asked for an equal chance to prove themselves and be treated just like men. They have had that chance for the last 40 years and they don’t like being treated the way men are in the workplace and are now demanding special rules to save them from their own poor choices.
We live in a free society whe
April 24, 2007 - 11:03 ET by Hero SquadWe live in a free society where the market can dictate the salaries and wages we can earn in our chosen profession. If a woman is offered a job and feels she is not receiving a fair shake in the salary presented, she is free to make a counteroffer or walk, and find another employer who will pay what she feels she is worth.
There are so many variables that can come into play that it's impossible to ever say that a woman with equal ability is earning less than a man at the same position. Education, years of experience, previous salary, location of the job, a willingness to accept the first salary offer made all make it unlikely this scenario ever presents itself to an employer. Since women are more likely to take several years off to raise a family (a noble decision, and one my wife and I have made), it's inevitable that the woman would return with lower salary expectations, since her experience level has fallen behind someone else near the same age who has not taken the same leave.
That can actually be an advantage, if the employer chooses the woman because they can pay her less and she is willing to accept a lower salary. Of course, that little nugget is eliminated from the debate.
*****
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine no possessions?'" - Elvis Costello
the view
April 24, 2007 - 11:06 ET by charlietexasTom Paine, true about the choices our kids make. My oldest son is a business major and is only making 40K a year maybe alittle more. But loves what hes doing. Our next daughter is an EE major and right out of college made 65K. She travels alot, doesnt like that much but loves the money. Our next daughter is in the Navy and doesnt make that much and really loves it. our youngest isnt making much, but loves his job. ya never know......its all about choices....dont those women always nag about the right to choose???
Right to choose
April 24, 2007 - 11:19 ET by Cool ArrowWhat about a woman's right to choose "Art Appreciation" and the high salary? Shouldn't the market be obliged to conform?
Art Appreciation?? hahahaha
April 24, 2007 - 13:50 ET by charlietexasArt Appreciation?? hahahahahhahahaha How much do you think a man or woman should make for that?? Like the art of a chocolate Jesus or dung Mary?? thanks for the laugh......I like art by the masters, but come on....
It's a man's world
April 25, 2007 - 14:52 ET by whatajoyNo matter how you put it, it's a man's world. God created man first and no matter how liberated women get, it will always be a man's world. That is just the way it is. Complaining and whining about the pay gap doesn't do any good and won't solve the problem. It's just the way it is. Sad, but true. Let's move on.
Right out of college, I knew
April 26, 2007 - 19:46 ET by KimberlyRight out of college, I knew for a fact that I was starting at the same salary as my male counterparts, but within 2 years I'd fallen behind them, because invariably they'd get promoted first. Didn't matter that we were doing the same job with the same training and that (in the mind of a lot of my female counterparts) I was routinely besting my male counterparts in terms of job performance, the men would get their promotions first and then the women would follow behind. Routinely. Didn't matter at all. I stayed with this employer 12 years, and their pattern never changed. This employer got investigated routinely for their minority hiring practices and promotion patterns, they'd "promise" to do better, and then things would go right back to the way they were. By the time I was ready to quit, I had been actively passed over for promotion for six years. Every time I was ranked #1 for promotion from my organization, by the time it got to the folks who actually made the choice, they'd gotten some ultimatum from some "valuable" male employee who was tired of getting "passed over" for promotion and suddenly that guy who was maybe in the top 5 on the list would jump to #1, and mysteriously they'd only have one promotion slot available. I confirmed that the only way to make #1 on the list was to threaten resignation just days after I'd started my new job hunt and put my resume through the corporate approval chain; the head of the promotion board had his secretary call my office and have me come in for a quick meeting. "You know, you're number one on the list," the head of the promotion board said, "but we hear you're looking for a new job. We don't want to waste a promotion--are you leaving us?" (The clear implication being, "if you stay, we'll make sure you stay #1 on the list instead of undercutting you again.") I said I hadn't yet made up my mind whether I was staying or going, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor as to whether I got a promotion that three different executives within the organization had openly said I was long overdue for. The speed at which that man's face blanched was priceless; I wish I'd had a camera. Two weeks later, just as the promotion list was due out, I left. I never did ask whether I was still #1 on the list.
So, yes, it happens. Fortunately, I'm now at a job where I'm paid commensurate with my skills, regardless of my gender. Life is good.