DO YOU REALLY KNOW HOW STRONG THE GROUND IS YOU STAND ON?
HAVE YOU REALLY OBSERVED WITHOUT BIAS ANOTHERS PERSPECTIVES BEFORE FORMING YOUR OWN?
Do your beliefs come from personal experience or that of others? Its okay to have faith but be careful of too much blind faith. Don’t ignore that which surrounds you, especially when it if full of blarring contradictions.
Have you ever said or felt seeking comfort and simplicity, that if my ancestors believed it then so should I. There is no need to question authority or dig any deeper. Authority must be questioned, our country the USA, slavery, women's rights,
cults, workers rights, child abuse, medicine and freedom might not exist as it does today or could be worse without criticism & questioning from a courageous few.
Religions have endured, evolved, increased in number and changed
the course of history since the birth of humanity.
• All Religions have contradictions, some more than others.
• More people have died in the name of religion or god than for any other reason.
• A religious bias exists from birth. Depending on what region and culture one
is raised in.
• Religion provides and explanation for the unknown or supernatural. Science provides the definition.
• A natural longing exists in most people to find something greater than themselves and for there to be life after death.
CHRISTIANITY & ISLAM
These two are the focus because the extreme factions of
both are coming face to face in even more dangerous ways
than before. The outcome of Global Terrorism is tied to their
ability to interpret correctly, respect & tolerate each other.
THE FACTS FIRST:
CHRISTIANITY
• 3 names for
the nature
of God, the
(Trinity)
• 2000 B.C.
• Jesus
• Cross
• Bell
• The Bible
• Prophets From Isaac’s ancestral line
ISLAM
• 570 A.D.
• Mohammed
• Crescent
• Call
• The Quran
• From
Ishmael’s
ancestral line
• 99 names for
the nature of
Allah
More ISLAM FACTS
• Oldest Carbon dated Quran 700 A.D.
• Hadith is a gathering of Mohammed’s sayings written down by his followers.
• Mohammed first sermon age 40.
• Path to heaven, accept there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.
Good works increase your odds. All is written, the only guaranteed way into heaven is to die in a Jihad for Allah.
• No clear independent party verifications, some archeology.
• Mecca, the most holy city
• The Kabba is the most holy site.
• Mohammed died revered.
• Mohammed had 11-13 wives, Aisha was 6 years old while he was 54.
• Mohammed was a warrior and military leader.
• Illiterate Merchant
• No clear heir designated.
• 3 divisions of Islam, Sunni the majority, Shia the minority (has sects) and Sufi a very small faction.
• Muslims must complete the 5 Pillars of Islam, (Faith proclamation, pray 5 times a day, Hajj to Mecca, almsgiving, and fasting.
More CHRISTIANITY FACTS
• Oldest Carbon dated Old Testament (Torah) 700 B.C.
• Oldest Carbon dated New Testament (Injeel) among the Dead Sea Scrolls 100 A.D.
• Jesus first sermon age 15
• Path to heaven accept Jesus as the savior, and ultimate sacrifice for mankind's sins. One must also be baptized. Good Works improve your placement in heaven.
• Independent verifications (not part of the religioug following),Romans, Jews, Egyptians,archeology, etc.
• Jerusalem, the most holy city.
• Church of the Holy Sepulchre is the most holy site.
• Jesus was crucified on a cross
• Jesus had 0-1 possible wives being Mary Magdalene.
• Jesus never killed or inflicted painon another.
• Literate Carpenter
• Peter designated as the heir.
• Christianity, multiple divisions, Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran,Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Protestant, Pentecostal, etc.
• Christians must repent, ask forgiveness for their sins, give alms, proclaim Jesus as the savior and read the bible.
FINAL FACTS:
CHRISTIANITY
• Convert to another religion or question Christianity the worst case scenario is to be shunned in the community, and be considered damned to hell. No religious police
• 1st spread by word of mouth, 2nd the worlds most published book the Bible. 3rd the sword. 4th economics (colonization).
• Slaves, women (witch trials) & other minorities suffered unjust treatment by the
Christian hand.
• One religious war fought by the divisions of Christianity, Catholics vs. Knights Templar.
ISLAM
• Convert to another religion or question Islam the worst case scenario is torture, exile, execution and damnation in hell.
• 1st spread by word of mouth, 2nd by the sword & victory in battles as justification. 3rd the Quran. 4th economics (merging of the tribes, trade expansion).
• Women, children, infidels & Arab suppression under the Islamic hand, less overall
minority suppression.
• Multiple wars fought between Shias & Sunni’s based on religious differences.
BEWARE OF PEER PRESSURE!
If you see a chart to represent the religion growths without world population regional growth rates to go along with it, then it is being presented as propaganda.
•Be careful of those who try to prove and justify their beliefs based on peer pressure. Just because there might be a percentage increase from one religion to another doesn’t mean it is because everyone is now convinced it is the one true right religion. This is poorly used propaganda. World population patterns are the main factor for this and the natural religious bias that exists from birth.
•Middle East population growth rates are among the highest in the world. Since 1960, the region’s population has more than tripled, from 106 million to 326 million people. The largest population gain for the region was in Iran, which added almost 50 million people.
The Middle East Population Projections:
•Population is expected to more than double by 2050 to reach 649 million individuals. Saudi Arabia and Yemen are expected to grow almost fourfold by 2050, from 24 million to 91 million, and from 19 million to 71 million, respectively. Egypt and Iran are predicted to have populations
of over 100 million in 2050.
•The primary factor driving population growth in the Middle East is extremely high fertility rates. In 2002, the highest total fertility rates were in Yemen, Palestine and Saudi Arabia, at 7.2, 5.9 and 5.7 births per woman, respectively. Tunisia (2.1), Lebanon (2.4) and Iran (2.5) had the lowest rates in the region.
•Populations are decreasing in Western nations. There is no longer any need to have 3 or more children to help run the farm anymore. With equal rights and 2 working parents it also no longer makes sense to have more than 2 children considering both time and money. They also understand the importance of keeping world population rates sustainable. The rate in the United States is 0.91% (2006 est.) That is less than 1 child per family.
IMPORTANT POINTS:
• You can always know a false god.
False gods always demand the BLOOD OF INNOCENTS.
Whenever the innocent and just are being slain, there you will find Moloch the god Ba'al; always masquerading.
Islam’s punishments especially to women are barbaric. Stoning, torturing and burying alive. Take a trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran or other conservative Muslim countries and you might notice stone piles (in Saudi Arabia they are all
around the airport) These are the graves of women stoned to death. Is this really fair for women accused of having sex with another man while their husbands under Islamic law can have multiple sexual partners? In those same countries if a woman speaks out against her husband in public, it is justified for the people around her to then beat her. Is it fair that women must cover themselves & sometimes suffer heat strokes because of the weakness of man? Even with the covering men still lust & undress women with their mind. Some Islamic parents even support
their children's suicides as justified under the Jihad against the infidels (non-believers). All other religions suicide of any kind leads to Hell or some kind of punishment.
• Islam split only 24 years after the death of Mohammed, The 1st lasting split for Christianity (Nestorianism) came in 431 A.D. over translation concerns from Latin to Aramaic & calling Mary the mother of God instead of the Mother of Christ. They also understood Christ to exist as 2 persons the divine and the bodily.
• Mohammed's Ascension (Inspiration for the Arabian Nights stories) or Mi‘raj was in a vision, and was not physical. The actual phrase used that "he was transported only in spirit (bi ruhihi) while his body did not leave its place." In another of
Bukhari's Hadith, it is written, "whilst I was in a state between that of one sleeping and one awake" (Bukhari 59:6).It is also stated that the ascension took place from his cousins house Ali ibn Abi Tali which was in Medina not in Jerusalem.
• According to tradition, the Dome of the Rock was built to commemorate Muhammad's ascension into heaven after his night journey to Jerusalem (Qur'an 17). Why would Islam desecrate a holy Jewish and Christian site? To attempt to
replace it and make their own beliefs more powerful. Jews believed, and still believe, the rock to be the very place where
Abraham prepared to sacrifice Isaac.
• Calling the Bible or the Quran the infallable word of God is irrational.
Because so many men had influence over the writings incorporated into the books they were automatically subject to human error. The ten commandments are the only text that can be considered as the infallible word of God. It was written (in
Samaritan script not Arabic) on stone tablets and given to the people immediately after Moses climbed down from a mountain. That left only one possible author other than god, Moses. This following a string of miraculous events and predictions which should lead one to believe it did come from God. Then thereafter with all the miracles and independently verified events surrounding the Ark of the Covenant.
• Scientific Predictions are not prophecies, The bible clearly states all holy writings and prophets can only be considered that after miracles or detailed prophecies have occurred and come to pass. Deuteronomy 18:22 says, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."
MORE IMPORTANT POINTS:
• The Quran has no predictions other than vague scientific statements that have not come to pass. Science is the only true test to prove the Quran is a divine document. The other based upon poetic symmetry & saying the Quran itself is a miracle is not logical theology. Besides one could say that about Shakespeare’s writing and he was one man writing beautiful, poetic stories on his own. Mohammed had a whole band of people writing down his words because he could not read and write. People who can’t read and write can still tell brilliant, colorful stories and did in his day. There are 22 Quaranic predictions cited, about divine judgment and blessing at the end of history they are found at: Sura 2:88-89; Sura 3:10, 106,
107, 144; Sura 8:7; Sura 9:14; Sura 28:85; Sura 48:16-21, 28; Sura 54:44-48; and Sura 56:1-56. --
Please look at each one carefully.--These Quranic verses have not yet happened in history; therefore, they do not qualify as fulfilled predictions, and they do not yet verify that Mohammed is a true prophet, nor that the Quran is truly from God. Overall the Quran claims only dozens of predictions while the Bible had over
3,500 predictions.
• Because Muslims proclaim the Quran is true because of scientific predictions in particular “The Big Bang Theory” then it is also false under those same premises. Here is a supposed predictive, scientific
verse in the Quran proved false multiple times. On the day when We will ROLL UP HEAVEN like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about. Surah 21:104. Einstein’s theory predicts that THE UNIVERSE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPAND FOREVER if there is, on average, less than about a sugar
cube's worth of matter and energy per trillion cubic miles of space. More recently, In the past couple of years by mapping the Supernova explosions and the time it take for the light to be seen from earth, Astronomers have found that the expansion of the universe is actually speeding up.
• Problems with “The Big Bang Theory” as a prediction: The idea that the universe began as some sort of gaseous vortex was ubiquitous throughout Persian and Greek ideology before the time of Muhammad and the Quran. Plus
The Arabic word used is dukhan, "smoke,” not gas. Greek philosophers guessed a lot of scientific details correctly--they anticipated atoms, other solar systems, evolution, the laws of thermodynamics, the rain cycle, you name it. That doesn't make them supernaturally prescient, nor does it do so for the Quran. The Mayans created a calendar around 400 BC that could predict within a day over a 500 year span of time solar and lunar eclipses. As the date approached accuracy was within
seconds. Predicting an eclipse does not count as a prophetic prediction. Besides Mohammed was fearful of the solar eclipse. The Hadith, Bukhari, Vol 2, No. 167 "The sun eclipsed and the prophet jumped up terrified that it might be the Hour
(of Judgement)"
• The difference between the Shi’a which in itself has many sects and the Sunnis began as a matter of succession (political not spiritual but has since transgressed to religious, spiritual ideology).
• Abu Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law and one of the leaders of the Ummah was the first to take succeed. The Shi'a, or Shi'at Ali, the party of Ali, believe that Mohammed divinely ordained his cousin and son-inlaw, Ali ibn Abi Talib, in accordance with God's command, making Ali and his descendents Mohammed's true successors (caliphs). The largest denomination in Islam, the Sunnis, hold that Abu
Bakr and all caliphs should be chosen by community consensus, that this method of choosing or electing leaders (Shura) is endorsed by the Quran.
• Shia & Sunni’s also differ on their views of the Hadith. Many Shia also believe it to be the infallible word of Allah, while Sunni’s believe it to be the sayings of Mohammed. Shia tend to be the more conservative faction. There interpretation of the covering of women (hijab) is an example of this. death squads & religious enforcers are more commonly associated and practice under the Shia rule.
Shia more often passionately follow violent practices and have a more broad definition of the Jihad (holy war) than the Sunni. Osama bin Laden & Al-Qaeda are
an exception. Example, The Day of Ashura (mourning for the death of Husayn ibn Ali, grandson of Mohammed). Photos to the right show how even children cut themselves with knifes.
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS & CONTRADICTIONS:
CHRISTIANITY
Jesus, Christ the savior is the son of God.
1st of all this belief was not finalized until The
Council of Nicea in 325 AD under the Roman
emperor Constantine’s command. According to
Catholic tradition only the pope has the
authority to make final decisions on which
religious texts are truly from God. 3 Bishops
were at the council but not the pope.
• Many followers and disciples never
expressed that opinion. Some of the dead
sea scroll writings dated within a 100 years of
Jesus show this.
• If Jesus is the son of God, Adam must be
recognized that way even more so. Jesus
was born via the angel Gabriel impregnating
his Earthly mother Mary. Adam came directly
from God. God showed he could do it alone.
• (Fallen) Angels impregnated women before
according to the (Old Testament) Torah.
Giants and later demons were their offspring. A
divine angel such as Gabriel then would not
create a direct offspring of God but an
“anointed one” and the Hebrew definition of
that is Christ.
• Also In Judaism, the Messiah ( ַ חי ִ שׁ ָ מ) Aramaic
אחישמ) initially meant any person who was
anointed by a prophet of God.
ISLAM
• Muhammed’s reason for receiving a
message from God and becoming a prophet
was to clarify the mistakes of other
religions. 1st of all for a Messenger
supposedly inspired by God, Gabriel, his many
wives (1 who convinced him he was divine at
age 40 and another 6 year old wife Aisha who
he had his most prophetic messages from god
while he lay with her ("Muhammad used to get
divine inspiration only in Aisha's
bed"...3.47.755) made a pretty large mistake
in not designating a clear successor don’t
you think.
• 2nd Muhammed stands completely alone
when it comes to recognized messengers
and prophets of the Old & New Testaments.
He is uncharacteristic of any prophets before
him. He is also the only one from the ancestral
line of Ishmael. The line of prophets proves
Isaac was the holy son & documents dating
700 BC a 1000 years before the Quran are not
as likely to have changed. Mohammed had no
miracles and made no prophecies that have
come to pass other than stating the Romans
would have a victory which is like saying in
MORE CHRISTIAN:
• Constantine had final say so and
control over what became the books
included into the New Testament.
Christians argue he was divinely inspired.
That is impossible to prove, but when you
look at historical Constantine it begins to
look pretty unlikely. In order to please his
wife he converted to Christianity. Then to
avoid conflict with his prior Pagan Sun
God beliefs he incorporated them into
Christianity.
• December 25th comes from Rome and
was a celebration of the Italic god,
Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
• The 2 most common editions of the
bible are translations of translations.
Anyone who speaks more than 1
language understands the difficulty in
transferring meanings accurately.
• In England, the authorized Bible didn’t become
available to the common people until the decree of
King James the II in 1611. The most popular
Bible is the Old Testament and full NIV Bible
published in 1978, and a modified edition
published in 1984.
• People also forget the historical cultures,
traditions, way of life and how different they
were from modern times. For one the disparity
between the rich and poor was much greater. There was
no middle class. Those not in the miniscule upper class
didn’t have access to much information beyond what they
were told. Most could not read. They were very naïve.
• Now think about the information, technology
and communication channels open to the
masses today. Yet they are still as naïve even
with all that information available. Examples:
David Koresh Cult, Jim Jones and the hundreds
who committed suicide in Jonestown. The
Mormons and their golden tablets given to Joseph
Smith from the Native Americans (supposed lost
10 tribes of Israel) Nevermind the fact no one
other than Joseph saw them and the book of
Mormon has been changed several times since
the 1800’s. I.E. Polygamy. Then how about
electing a president without International
experience that fabricates a reason to go to war
for his own personal gains and believing him while
the real war on terror is abandoned and ignored in
the places really harboring terrorists.
• The Trinity and Mary
Many modern day Christians focus too much
attention on 1 part or another of the Trinity.
They are 1 and must be worshiped as 1. Jesus
is considered the physical, personal
embodiment of God on earth, God is the God of
Space & time (the heavens) The holy Spirit is
his spiritual presence here on earth.
Pentecostals focus too much on the Holy Spirit,
Catholics, Jesus and Mary. Methodists,
Baptists, & Lutherans too much on Jesus.
Count how many times God is mentioned in a
sermon compared to Jesus, Mary and the Holy
Spirit. It is not more as it should be. It is no
wonder Muslims and others think Christians
worship 3 gods.
• Graven Images
The Bible clearly states no idols and graven
images. Are Christians so simple minded that
they have to have representations of Jesus and
Mary everywhere in order to worship effectively?
And in regards to Mary she was the revered
earthly mother of Jesus but that was it.
Catholics practically worship Mary as another
God. There are more statues and references to
her than Jesus and God himself. This is a major
contradiction.
•Jesus Forgives the thief while on the
cross. Luke 23:39-43
39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was
hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the
Christ? Save Yourself and us!"
40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said,
"Do you not even fear God, since you are under the
same sentence of condemnation?
41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are
receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this
man has done nothing wrong."
42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when
You come in Your kingdom!"
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today
you shall be with Me in Paradise.“
This demeans the act of Good Works. In
other words it is saying that regardless
of how you lived your life, lying on your
deathbed you can accept Christ & go to
heaven. Some Christians will then argue
that good works will earn you a better
place in heaven. That idea doesn’t work
because once your in heaven it doesn’t
matter where you are or how big your
house is and since there is no sin in
heaven only peace & happiness, one of
the 7 deadly sins ENVY can’t occur.
MORE ISLAM:
• Ishmael is not looked highly upon in
the Torah. in Genesis 16:12, "And he will
be a wild man; his hand will be against
every man, and every man’s hand
against him; and he shall dwell in the
presence of all his brethren." As it turns
out, Ishmael had twelve sons (Genesis
17:20). Genesis 21:8-10: "And the child
grew, and was weaned, and Abraham
made a great feast the same day that
Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the
son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had
born unto Abraham mocking. Wherefore
she said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this
bondwoman and her son, for the son of
this bondwoman shall not be heir with my
son, even with Isaac."' 1 Genesis
passage even calls Ishmael & his people,
“Wild Donkeys.”
• Isaac was the only son at the time of
God’s commandment to Abraham to
sacrifice his only son. Ishmael was
banished and sent away with his slave
mother Hagar.
• Since Islam recognizes Isa (Jesus) as a holy
prophet then it should recognize his teachings,
especially from Mathew, Mark, Luke & John which were
written in different regions within a 100 years of the
death of Jesus yet still turned out almost identical. You
can not declare someone a holy prophet then deny his
teachings & the words of his trusted disciples. Saying
texts were changed, doesn’t have much clout,
discovered scrolls much older than the Quran have
been found unchanged. Translation errors is all that
can be used for dispute.
• Major contradiction in teaching styles about
adultery: ONE OF THE PROPHETS IS WRONG!
One time a woman was brought to Mohammed who
had committed adultery. They asked him, "What shall
we do with her? Muhammad said, "Go away. Bring her
back after the baby is born." So they brought her back
after the baby was born, & Muhammad said, "Let her go
and nurse the child. Bring her back when the child is
two years old." So they brought her back, &
Muhammad said, "Take the baby from her and kill
her." And that is what they did.
Compare this to the teachings of Jesus about
adultery, according to the Gospel of John. the
Jewish Priests (Pharisees), in an attempt to discredit
Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before
him. The Pharisees reminded Jesus that adultery was
punishable by stoning under Law of Moses and
challenged Jesus to judge the woman so that they might
then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at
her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man, lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.”
The Bible prophesied the coming of Mohammad
• There are some passages which Muslims refer to as proof
that the Bible prophesied Mohammad's advent. The most
well known is Deuteronomy 18:18. In this passage, God says
he will raise up a prophet for Israel from among their
countrymen. Some translations use "brothers"
or "brethren." Islamic teachers take "brothers" to mean from
Ishmael's decedents. What most Muslims are not educated
about is the fact that Ishmael and his decedents are not
referred to as "brothers' of Israel in the Old Testament. In
fact, only Esau's descendants could be referred to as
"brothers" since Esau was the brother of Jacob, through
whom the national of Israel was born. Mohammad, Islam's
prophet, was not of the tribes born from Esau. The other
common reference made is: "But the Comforter, which is the
Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall
teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John
14:26). The "Comforter" refers to the Holy Spirit who
descended on the Apostles of Jesus at Pentecost, just
as Jesus said.
Borrowed customs and secular traditions turned into religious rituals.
Many of the Islamic rituals are not unique to Islam. Judaism first
declared pork as unclean because people would get sick &
sometimes die from improperly handling the meat of an
undomesticated animal. Eventually this became a religious
custom. Washing of the hands before eating also became a
religious custom in this manner. Bacteria was unknown then and
when people washed they didn’t get sick as often. This lead to
the idea of washing (getting clean of evil and sin) before prayer.
Jews pray toward the wailing wall, (remains of Herod’s Temple
where god first resided on earth). Muslims toward the Kabba
where Gods house now supposedly resides. Jews use the horn
for calling to worship, Christians the Bell, Muslims the voice. The
idea of one God is believed by the Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Some Muslims will reach even further for justification of Mohammed’s holiness. Example:
Mohammed's persecutors didn’t look in the cave because of a
spider web covered the entrance of the cave & it was a miracle he
was not captured. It takes most spiders less than 30 minutes to
build a web from scratch. Another is a passage in the Quran that
claims to predict genetic engineering. Sura 4:119 "they shall
slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that
they shall alter Allah's creation" In context this is talking about
"slitting the ears of cattle" and such "defacing of nature" Not
nearly a description of "genetic engineering," but is the common
actions of farmers. The Bible is direct and very specific
with its predictions. It gives names, dates and places. The Quran does not.
MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS ARTICLE:
1. Not necessarily to offend, but to force extremists to think a little more and not take things so literally. If you already knew all presented here & questioned your religious authority about it, then congratulations you a part of the minority & probably aren’t the type of person to resort to violence when you can’t respond to someone's criticism with anything other than “It is written, have faith, or God told me so.”
2. It is also a direct response to an Islamic propaganda presentation e-mailed to me.
3. I have grown tired of religious disputes among people who don’t really even know much about the religion they are fighting so passionately for, much less someone else's. Or people who prey on the weak for converts because they don’t have enough knowledge or courage to help their own & it’s an easier way to feel empowered. People who don’t have their basic needs met or that are looking for acceptance will do almost anything to appease those giving them attention and handouts. Many struggle to survive and haven’t even been given a gift before. If
that gift is a Quran or a Bible there is a pretty good chance they are going to revere it and the person who gave it to them.
4. People sometimes are too lazy to think and question authority. To many people just go with the flow and that is dangerous. History has proven this and the wrongs of history repeat themselves when the issues presented here are not addressed properly and people stop questioning their leaders.
5. To show that Contradictions must not be overlooked and hidden. If you are devout to your religion then you will know them so address them if you can If you can’t then how do you expect toleration, peace and justice to occur? It won’t happen through blind faith. None of the Contradictions I have presented here really undermine the “actual message” of Christianity.
6. I like the rest of Americans have the right to rebel against the religious thought we were raised with. I was raised as a Christian, first Methodist then a variety of the Pentecostal Churches. I saw far too much hypocrisy and suffered much pain because of blind faith, people seeking power over others by religion and improper justifications through religion. I turned away long ago searching for anything else that would keep me from having to accept a belief system that
caused me so muchanguish. Islam was my 1st hope but I am a rational person and after much evasion to the logical questions I asked as a potential converter, manipulation of the facts and so many contradictions that undermine the whole religion, I found it nearly impossible to accept.
If you have questions, comments or would like a much more visually appealing PowerPoint presentation of this article e-mail me at: deceptionreport@hotmail.com
Jack Turner
Comments Policy
Very interesting, thank you
April 5, 2007 - 03:59 ET by WhichWingVery interesting, thank you.
I question the authority of t
April 6, 2007 - 13:01 ET by ArmedDadI question the authority of the advocates of forced secularism.Extreme fear and hatred of religion has brought strife,misery and death as evidenced by the Communist regimes of the 20th century.I found it very freeing to let go of my animosity and my feelings of intellectual superiority toward people of faith.
Was that directed at me?
April 6, 2007 - 22:09 ET by WhichWingWas that directed at me?
My post was directed at no pa
April 7, 2007 - 11:13 ET by ArmedDadMy post was directed at no particular person.A frank discussion of the negatives of religion,which are highly subjective,by the way, is incomplete without examining the pitfalls of anti-religious zealotry as further explored by Carl Kolchak.I also stated that my life improved when I no longer viewed persons of faith as a threat to me.I now admire people of faith instead of being driven into turmoil each time I heard a religious belief expressed.
Clarifications
April 12, 2007 - 13:51 ET by deceptionreportThank you all for taking the time to read my post. First of all I am not an atheist, I am far from it. I consider myself a Christian just not the sort that seems to be mainstream right now. Too much of any one idealology is not good in my opinion and that also pertains to secularism. My main point is to question all authority (not just religious) and yourself. Never stop doing so even when you age and it becomes easier to just accept it for what it is. When too many did this that tended to be the time when history took a turn for the worse.
What I am advocating here is for people to examine all sides of an issue, "examining the pitfalls of anti-religious zealotry," as well as the religious zealotry. I exentuated the religious zealotry because it has been more extreme in recent times. The ethical, moral, philosophical questions pertaining to atheists have just as many pitfalls and contradictions as religions do. Doing good soley on the principle of a greater goal towards humanities postive growth would never happen without some kind of religious consensus.
As far as communism goes, millions have died and been suppressed under its tragic rule. For the same reason mainstream atheism wouldn't work communism doesn't work. It is very hard to comprehend wealth ever being shared equally. Can you as an individual even do it on a small scale? I didn't bring it up because with the exception of China, this doesn't have the same immediate threat it once did and is greatly overshadowed now by terroism and religious zealots. We will sooner than later have to face down China because of it, but that time is not upon us yet. The fight to control the resources in the Middle East is just now beginning to pick up with China's industrialization and passive-aggrassive partnering with Russia. The U.S. and Europe are happily funding it through corporate greed, ignoring trade deficits, currency devaluation and lack of labor and environmental regulations. The short term cash flow or windfall a select few receive from selling to billions makes it easy to overlook the loss of jobs, tax income, and the Asian long term strategies on eventually taking over the foreign operated business's. No Foreign Company or Government is allowed a corporate majority stake in China. Then we as consumers fund the eventual opposition by purchasing soley on price ignorantly undermining our own people and children's futures.
Again I will state it, this time with more depth; Look at your history a little closer from on back to the dawn of time. More people have died in the name of a God, for God or by someone elses God than for any other reason. Even natural disasters were tied to some kind of Godly belief or lack thereof.
Don't go to war with someone or even more ridiculous a football game and say we won because God sided with us. Why was he on our side? We obeyed better (we are righteous) or because we prayed and bowed down more. Most of the time it has to do with who was smarter and who had better equipment. Just as good and bad befalls all regardless of how religious they might be, or how consistant tithes are paid, or how much praying is done. There is the good, bad and you, plus the decisions and choices you make and have to pay the consequences for. Painting crosses on shields because the men and wife of Constantine asked him to while they were outnumbered and overwhelmed doesn't necessarily mean God rewarded them with victory because of it. What did he have to loose in doing it and saying he would convert if they won because of it. He didn't really have to change any of his beliefs he just incorporated them.
The story of Job in the bible also shows this for those who like to hide behind the bible. Job becomes the pawn in a game God is enticed into playing by Satan. Why would God be tricked by a lesser being, one whom he already knows all actions beforehand? What caring and personal God would torture one of their most devout subjects?
God was tricked by Satan - ar
April 12, 2007 - 14:26 ET by TruthMongerGod was tricked by Satan - are you sure about that? And what is this torture of Job that you're accusing God of? Remember what God allowed of His very own son on the cross...
As a Christian it seems to my meager brain that you have alot more contemplation of the scriptures ahead of you...
way too specious
April 23, 2007 - 13:23 ET by tumbler_2007Dear deceptionreport:
You've acted here like that mountain of the adage; who heaved and labored and pushed, only to give birth to a mouse.
Your longish post as well as the strange alias you've used indicate you have one point to make: that Religion (at least by authority) is deceptive. That you "see through" the deceptions of all you consider "organized religion." Or, you suspect what you've been taught, merely because you distrust established norms and appeals to faith.
Maybe you fail to see that these points of view are in line with most of all the thinking of hedonists who will live incorrigibly, or anarchists who dispute what others would call good or bad. Those are the thoughts not of a free-thinker, but of a rebel. A rebel who makes his reaction plausible and laudable based only on his private perspective. "My way or the highway." Not that you can't sometimes be right. I've often disputed here with many who resolved from the start; only if you follow US are you taken seriously in this site. You have to oppose that mind-set; even if your own is flawed. because we were not given free will by the Creator so we could be swept off our feet.
But where it concerns the truth revealed by God, you can't do more than earnestly inquire after the genuine article. To tar all of it with one large brush is merely cowardice & intellectual laziness. Did He or didn't He reveal himself, is the one basic quest and necessity for finite men. Finite and therefore having much room for improveent and inherent flaws. God wants me to IMPROVE my life and my outlook, with his TRUTH.
It's disingenuous to say that since there were wars over religion all of them were foolish or not worth fighting. In some instances, perhaps. But wars can be great forces for man's advancement in wisdom and his intellectual freedom; as well as tragic evidence of our injustice. Killing Indians by the hundreds of thousands was evil. But America's fight for Indepndence was evidence of God's inspiration of, and love for, mankind.
You can pretend the wisdom of the free-thinker like Velikovsky, who cast out all he considered metaphysical because he "knew" there is no God;
Or, become a light to mankind like so many Chrisitan prlates who made us God's pride and joy by founding the fantastic universities of western europe, whose lights are the foundation of modern civilization. They raised up the gigantic minds which launched us into the world of knowledgew and science. Today's great minds are standing firmly on the shoulders of the former ones who were given educations at Cambridge and Oxford, The Sorbonne, Cologne, Heidelberg, Salamanca, and many more. Without our religion devoted to CHRIST we would have remained in the stratus of Africa, Tibet, Malaysia, the Pre-Columbian Americas, etc., in virtual darkness. There could then BE no free-thinkers; only primitives.
You mean atheists have it all figured out?
April 6, 2007 - 22:40 ET by Carl KolchakWell you put a lot of time an effort into your forum post, and list your reasons and don't appear hateful, so I will respond in a non hateful tone.
However, if you are trying to convince me that the atheists have it all figured out I would beg to differ.
Atheists Lenin and Trotsky attacked the Russian Orthodox Church once they came into power. They thought the church would have had a lot of wealth, and so they attacked it and killed Russian priests and turned out they didn't have the amount of wealth they expected. Their society was in such dissary that they had to rely on the American Relief Agency to come feed them. They also setup forced labor concentration camps. Yes the same Trotksy who said he was the champion for the worker was using forced labor. Then when Stalin came into power he also attacked the Russian Orthodox Church, as well as Buddhists, Muslims and Jews. Once Operation Barbarrosa occured, he realized he needed religion to help with patriotism, so he eased up the religious restrictions. Once the war was over religion was attacked again. Besides Sputnik, I can't think of any positive thing to come out of the atheist Soviet Union under Trotksy, Lenin or Stalin. Don't forget about the massive number of people who died in gulags either.
Atheist Mao came into power after the Chinese Revolution and he banned religion. It will be impossible to calculate how many died under his rule. Some esimates put it as high as 80 million and some as low as 10 million, but whatever the number, nothing productive was occuring in atheist Mao's society. Just compare that Taiwan became an economic power, while countless millions were dying under Mao to see the difference in leadership.
Atheist Kim II Sung in North Korea attacked religion and started the Korean War. Look at the difference now between atheist North Korea and South Korea, and you can see nothing productive has happened in North Korea.
Athiest East Germany attacked the Protestants living there and these people ended up leaving to go to West Germany. The East Germans realized that they were losing massive numbers of skilled workers and they had to do something, so they built the Berlin Wall. Keep in mind this wall was not builit for defensive purposes, but to prevent people from leaving and not being able to see what was happening on the other side. They then used the Stasi to monitor what their citizens were doing. It is estimated that there was 1 Stasi informant for every 7 persons. This was a real life "1984" society. Just compare West Germany's standard of living against East Germany's standard of living for the entire existense of East Germany and you can see that Atheist East Germany was light years behind West Germany.
Atheist Enver Hoxha from Albania attacked Christians and Muslims and declared the first "Atheist" state. This country was more isolated than atheist East Germany. Nothing productive came out of atheist Albania under Enver Hoxha.
Atheist Ceauseascu in Romania attacked the Church in Romania, and his society was also very backwards. He and his wife were finally executed Christmas Day 1989. A very good Christmas gift to the people of Romania.
Atheist Pol Pot banned religion and then decided he needed a new society and should get rid of all the old way of thinking. He and the Khmer Rouge attacked religion as well as people who could think for themselves. Countless people were killed by these atheists, and Cambodia was in the "Stone Age." Nothing progressive was coming out of atheist Cambodia.
So if you want to question religous authority, keep in mind that us Christians also want to question atheist authority.
Now as far as your take on Constanine, I have a much different interpratation.
Constantine defeated Maxentius at Milvian Bridge. He also had a vision before the battle “in hoc signo vince” which means “by this sign thou shall conquer”. Constantine had all his soldiers mark their shields with a Cross and vowed to convert to Christianity if victorious. He was victorious and converted. He then eventually commanded all of the Roman Empire. He recognized that he couldn’t control the entire empire, so he divided it. He maintained the Western Roman Empire and renamed the town of Byzantium to Constantinople. The Byzantine culture was dominated by Christianity. As a result of his conversions, Christians were allowed to spread their religion, and over the years, Christianity became the predominate religion of Europe.
Now whether you want to admit or not you wouldn't be here in the United States if it wasn't for the influence of Greek, Roman, Jewish and Christian culture.
• More people have died in the name
April 7, 2007 - 11:31 ET by misterbill"• More people have died in the name of religion or god than for any other reason."
I agree with that , but I also believe it was used as the excuse to go to war not the real reason. When a civilization prospers and another does not, or perceives the other has more - there is a strong human list of failings stirred up. Among them, the most prominent are greed, lust, sloth, gluttony, envy, pride and anger--(look familiar?). The lesser gifted population must then find a GOOD reason to go to war with the other. And , find one indeed, they do. The best one seems to be religion. His god is taller than my God. His temple or church or synagogue sits on the site where my god used to be honored, and on and on.
There will always be evil men and women who will preach hatred to their countrymen and urge them to fight in the name of (fill in your God here). it is easier to do this than to go to work each morning and perform whatever tasks your job calls for. The extremists will always hide behind religion.
PS Carl Kolchak nailed it above--even if they do not belong to a religion, they will blame religion for all the problems and set out to destroy it. It is easier to get godless people to do evil things than those who believe there is a final reckoning.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, K
April 18, 2007 - 17:25 ET byHitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Khan, and it goes on. The myth that more people have died in the name of religion. It's a lie.
I think we are on---
April 23, 2007 - 13:44 ET by misterbillI think we are on---the same page--I am merely saying that many of the people you mentioned, somewhere along the line tried to blame it on religion in one sense or the other. e.g. Anti-semitism. Or, later in histroy, an historian attributed (falsely) a great deal of war, killings, etc. to religion.
yes i did note that you said
April 23, 2007 - 19:49 ET byyes i did note that you said "excuse" i was agreeing with you.
"More people have died i
April 7, 2007 - 11:41 ET by nkviking75"More people have died in the name of religion or god than for any other reason."
I wonder about that. A great many people have been put to death, not to mention tortured, in the name of supressing religion, including millions killed by atheist Communist governments. Christians were being martyred almost as soon as the religion was founded, and they're being killed today.
The most dangerous people in the world often are the ones who feel unaccountable to any God or any system of morality, or whose morality is so pliable that any action can be justified.
you're correct, nkviking
April 7, 2007 - 11:59 ET by tumbler_2007More INNOCENT people have died at the hands of communists and other despots than any comparable number in the name of God. There's a sharp distinction between the name of God and the name or causes of man-made religions. God has obviously never instituted for His creature anything like the Mayan and Aztec kind of devil worship; nor has God installed cults such as the "Rev" Jim Jones colony or Branch Davidians who died in flames down in Waco, Texas. Only MEN are to blame for such errors.
Overall history shows nobody has died serving GOD except His own martyrs; but countless many died fighting for false gods and prophets. Even they didn't come CLOSE to the number of aborted infants killed by their own mothers and their physicians, a new idolatry quite acceptable in the eyes of these faith-bashers. Unborn babies are innocent human beings! Even & Attilla, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot , Hitler, Lenin and Stalin haven't been responsible for more deaths than is today-- abortion; abortion in the name of narcissist self-love. But atheists close their eyes to these numbers. They merely strike out at God and His faithful.
Abortion: 40 million innocent
April 12, 2007 - 14:31 ET by TruthMongerAbortion: 40 million innocent, guiltless children and counting...
Sad
April 12, 2007 - 15:39 ET by deceptionreportAbortion is sad, I don't agree with it and is a seperate complicated issue that doesn't belong in this forum. The number 40 million doesn't even come close to the number who have died in the name of a God. This is also a distraction/scapegoat issue being used to rally those being naively used, duped and abused medically and financially. It doesn't belong in Politics. Does the issue directly affect your own well being? Disregarding International Relations, Health Care, Education, tax breaks for the rich and overseas corporations like Haliburton trying to move headquarters to the UAB those issues directly affect the amount of security and income you and your kids will have. It is such a good idea to move all high paying jobs, manufacturing, communications, & technology jobs overseas and leave the low paying, retail service jobs for our children. There is a point of no return which we are rapidly approaching.
Jack
dear decptive:
April 24, 2007 - 11:07 ET by tumbler_2007Frankly it can't matter what you underscore about wars involving religion. (I'll come back to that in a minute,)
Firstly, only one God is relevant; the TRUE God. If anyone dies in His cause, it's the finest way of dying if not martyrdom. You can rejoice for the souls who gave their lives on earth for God.
Secondly; all others dead in a cause like that, but serving a FALSE God, are dead by the Will of God. In fact, war of itself is tragic; but it never multiplies the world's death count. One death per life is inevitable, and all of us will be dying whether there's a War or whether there's Peace. Serving God faithfully is the preferable way to die.
SO, griping about death in this world is foolish, when we're lamenting the past. It's over. Get over it, be thankful you were granted life and freedom to express your feelings --no matter how irrelevant they may be. Try not to be so ponderously judgmental. LOVE for as long as God grants you life, and you'll come to a good end somehow. I've offered you good counsel. God bless you; take heart !
Welcome back Tumbler
May 11, 2007 - 20:03 ET by acumenWelcome back Tumbler. Hope you had a great trip.
T-manand thats just the USA
April 18, 2007 - 17:26 ET byT-man
and thats just the USA
Jack Turner - I'm sorry but
April 12, 2007 - 14:02 ET by Dee BunkJack Turner - I'm sorry but you lost me with this
"These two are the focus because the extreme factions of both are coming face to face in even more dangerous ways than before. The outcome of Global Terrorism is tied to their ability to interpret correctly, respect & tolerate each other."
What are the so called extreme factions of Christianity doing that is anywhere comparable to bombing innocent people and encouraging followers to go on suicide missions? You are not following your own advice. Think.
Labeling and Ignoring others can be just as dangerous
April 12, 2007 - 15:00 ET by deceptionreportMy advice? You are looking for a simplistic answer to a problem more deeply rooted in long running religious disputes among both Christians & Muslims and their inability to tolerate each other. This is not a Black and White issue. When someone tries to distance themselves from another group or religion to build their own stronger, artifical walls around themselves the situation is not improved upon. Instead it is made worse and invigorates those who are ingnored and suppressed.
A good example to this is the Axis of Evil speech given by Bush and using the words New Crusade. If someone else calls you an evil one would you just sit there and take it quietly? Comments like these leave no room for compromises. Not that it wouldn't have happened anyway but the Nuclear programs and terrorist funding all of a sudden took off in a hurry since 9/11. We had Global sympathy and support for those actually responisble so it should have done the opposite. Funny how we practically gave them permission to reinstate and increase nuclear programs because we broke from and didn't resign the International ABM treaty. They Kyoto Protocal is something else we once led the way in and broke from. Why would any developing countries cut down on pollution when the U.S. doesn't?
The Crusades & inquistion, allowed Christians to kill non believers and label others as heretics to then justify the deaths of those who disagreed with them. The Pope also ordained that those who fought for the Crusades and died martyrs who would go to heaven. This is not a far cry from what Muslims today are doing to infidels. Yes they have suicide bombers while Christians didn't but don't stand so strong on your own religion with a fist up saying I'm right and your wrong because you have suicide bombers and we don't. THINKING applies much more to your comments than mine. Saying My God is better than yours or I'm right & your wrong even though I don't know much about my own religion doesn't allow for diplomacy. Modern Christians are trying to go back to those hypocritical beliefs. Only moderates from both coming to the table will solve the Global Terrorism situation. So in that sense, the extreme Christian factions who put our current leaders in power are also isolating us from the rest of the world in a time that we should be leading the way not turning away from everyone elses opinions, cultures and beliefs. We now live in a permanent Global environment. Our American Poster Boy has not helped or image overseas but harmed it. He has given more reasons for the international community to hate, ignore, avoid and kill us. Instead of being a positive example we have stooped to their levels. They can now say, see they are no better than us they kill, control, force their culture upon us, ignore and torture just the same as us. That kind of mentality is just as dangerous, even more when it is coming from both sides.
Jack
Jack Turner – Interesting h
April 12, 2007 - 15:44 ET by Dee BunkJack Turner – Interesting how you assumed I was a Christian. I don’t subscribe to any organized religion, as is the case with many conservatives. There has been absolutely no religious reason given for the War. No one is fighting in the name of Christianity. Our military and Government is made up of every religion including Atheists. They are fighting for the right to practice all religions and that is a night and day difference from what the terrorists are fighting for. They say convert or die. That is leaving no room for negotiations. Iran organizes rallies chanting “Death to America” that leaves no room for negotiations. These things were going on before Bush. All of Clinton’s touchy feely negotiations did nothing for peace and gave us Sept 11. Bush will always be willing to talk to reasonable people who want to talk and not just pose and posture.
As far as the Terrorist funding – that took off because of our show of weakness not strength. No one wants to waste their money on a lost cause or join a losing team. Sept 11 gave Al Queda the best publicity and rallying point they needed. They showed people that were sympathetic to them that they had a chance against the big bad giant. And Sept 11 was planned during the Clinton Administration.
How you think we lead the way with Kyoto is beyond me. Clinton gave lip service to it, but never submitted it to the Senate. Just like he campaigned against NAFTA to union workers but then signed it anyway. He new it was good for the country to sign NAFTA and bad to sign the Kyoto protocol.
Don’t you find it the slightest bit odd that you have to go so far back in history to the Crusades to give examples of Christians using violence? You can’t look at ancient history to condemn people – you look at what they are doing now, otherwise nothing could ever be solved because everyone has done something wrong.
I don’t think referring to the Axis was Evil did any good and I wish that was never said, but not mentioning it doesn’t make it not true it only gives Political opponents something to harp on. The crusade comment the way Bush used it, did not have any religious implications and everyone knows it. It wasn’t a good choice of words, but again leftists screaming about it did more damage and turned it into something it wasn’t.
Misinterpretation
April 16, 2007 - 17:16 ET by deceptionreportSorry but you didn't really read what I wrote, I never assumed you were a Christian or anything else for that matter. I only tried to help you understand the connection you admitted being lost on. Everyone knows the religious right (Evangelical, Non-Denominationals) controlled the last 2 elections based soley on abortion and gay rights. Issues that don't directly affect your own well being, but you are lead to believe that. I also understood the issue of Roe vs. Wade and the pressure to change the Supreme court since before Reagan. I knew it was a big goal to have the decision overturned and that the pro-life crowd would be given the opportunity in the near future once it was focused on as a key political issue.
Our religious right allow no room for negotiations. They give ultimatums, ostricize and belittle others, like President Musharraf of Pakistan one of the select few and most important allies. They prefer that we isolate ourselves behind military force over negotiating, International cultural considerations, and global communication. They say all Muslims are wrong lumping all types together and not really knowing why they think they are wrong beyond the fact their upbringing and their pastor, priest, etc. says they are. Think about some foreigners with tanks and guns plowing through your subdivision 3 AM in the morning having no one who speaks your language, dragging your neighbors/friends off in the middle of the night, because he/they were elders that disciplined some kids causing trouble. In return when the kids were captured and tortured for names they turned the elders in. What kind of impression would that leave on you? I don't think you would be calling them liberators. This kind of irresponsibility, disrespect, lack of training and shallow minded planning only leads to the creation of more terrorists.
Everyone and every country will always have enemies but when you are respected by the majority of the international community which your economic health is dependent on and have the winning team behind you most who can really affect your success won't view you as weak. When you go at it alone, recklessly, stepping on others to build yourself up and finally insulting those with influence that could be on your team you set yourself up for failure, abandonment and a severe, long term TRUE reality of being weak. Remember the story of the little boy who cried wolf?
I know terrorists say convert or die I wrote it in my article. The power to stop the increasing resentment and hatred towards America lies with those moderate Islamic countries, not the west, China, or Russia. They to will face what we are fighting now soon enough. Have they been given any incentive to help us? They don't trust us and why do you think that is? Did we really offer them a fair and legitimate part in the restructuring of Iraq and other Nations?
"The crusade comment the way Bush used it, did not have any religious implications and everyone knows it." Everyone is the U.S. sure but not in the Middle East. I lived there I know. Have you ever spent any significant time in another country or outside of the isolation you can still find while in the military overseas? Or even just gone at it alone in a new city or state, leaving everything & everyone behind and starting over from scratch like so many immigrants have. If the answer is no then you have no room to talk. Many Middle Easterns took it literally and it emboldened them to use the Jihad even more. How often was this word mentioned before 9/11? Some but not even close to the numerous references that are now made towards it and its justification.
Kyoto was created by the U.S, (I separated them for a reason) and the UN & finalized in 1999. Initially one of the main factors was due to the massive amounts of pollution drifting straight into Europe along the Jet-Stream. We are the single largest emitter of carbon dioxide. The east coast (industrial concentration) didn't have to suffer the pollution for very long because they were right on the coast and it was carried of quickly. It's pretty sad when Third World countries economically far worse off than the U.S. can sign it and still survive, even prosper under it, while we the USA, the richest country in the world won't and we say it is because it is too much too soon and economically we could not survive it. As far as it being officially submitted to the Republican Senate, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed on July 1997 by a 95–0 vote the Byrd-Hagel Resolution (S. Res. 98), which stated the sense of the Senate was that the United States should not be a signatory to any protocol that did not include binding targets and timetables for developing as well as industrialized nations or "would result in serious harm to the economy of the United States". Also stated by Both Gore and Senator Joseph Liberman (we know were he stands now) indicated that the protocol would not be acted upon in the Senate until there was participation by the developing nations. Gore still symbolically signed it. What a convenient excuse to avoid taking responsibility for our own actions. It was shot down before it was even given a chance.
The rapid increase in Nuclear research abroad, Iran, N. Korea, Syria, etc. and hightened confrontations with China, Russia, Saudia Arabia, etc. should have slowed after 9/11 but instead increased 10-fold led by our example in disregarding the ABM treaty. The international community knew that Iraq was stifled under the U.S. it's local presence, no fly zones, etc. and was not really a threat. They didn't buy the WMD fabricated reason created to justify us in taking over the country. It was for personal gains and wasted resources that would have been put to better use elsewhere. I mean Bush was given so much credit because of 9/11 but really I mean Gahndi could have been president after that and he like almost anyone would have took us to war had they been in that situation. They just probably would have taken us were we really needed to go and garnered the support of those we really needed.
Jack
Jack, your assertions are nonsense.
April 18, 2007 - 18:17 ET by RJ"Did we think Kyoto would [reduce global warming] when we signed it? Hell no!" -Al Gore
"The former vice president then explained that the real purpose of Kyoto was to demonstrate that international support could be mustered for action on environmental issues." -Columnist Steven Milloy
Kyoto is a fraud and a farce. Your assertions on the subject are nonsense. The primary goal of Kyoto is to attack the U.S. economically. It was not "created by the U.S. and the UN", and the Senate vote against it is proof of that. Rather, it was created by a small group of socialists with the goal of attacking the U.S. financially. They intend to establish control of the world economy and level the economic playing field. Third World countries "survive and prosper" under Kyoto because they have no requirements to meet. Under Kyoto, China and other countries are massively polluting the air, land and water.
Your writing on other subjects is also riddled with half truths and outright fabrication, but I'll allow others to continue their dismantling of your assertions.
DO YOU REALLY KNOW HOW STRONG
April 18, 2007 - 17:44 ET byDO YOU REALLY KNOW HOW STRONG THE GROUND IS YOU STAND ON?
HAVE YOU REALLY OBSERVED WITHOUT BIAS ANOTHERS PERSPECTIVES BEFORE FORMING YOUR OWN?
Hi Jack, I would caution you to first take your advice. There are many "facts" contained in your post which are subject to debate and disagreement (who knows they may be true?) there are oyher "facts" which are false and some mis-representations of Reformed and/or Roman Catholic Theology. (specifically on the nature of God) PR26:4,5 (probally a contradiction?)
Correction
May 3, 2007 - 13:24 ET by deceptionreportI must correct myself in regards to the comments I made about Kyoto and that the U.S. with the UN were leading the way. What I should have said was the U.S. should have been the Role Model and led the way with Kyoto. They didn't and it never even went to congress for a vote, although there was a similar vote earlier which related to Kyoto and that was completely shot down.
Now if you are going to discredit me or my article based on that comment or the other replies I made, then you are truly narrow minded and stubborn in your views. Most likely unable to accept change even when it flies in your face and it is obvious you should at least bend a little. That is only a way to avoid a real issue, discredit one on character, appearance or distract from the point being made, through loosely related comments. The replies were made more or less on a whim, and represent my personal opinions much more than the article itself.
The Test of Faith article uses years of research and first hand experience with both extreme religious factions. My replies do not. I am extremely disappointed in the response Test of Faith. I understand it is a bit wordy and with the format I am allowed here it is not as easy to follow as it is in the outlined, color PowerPoint Presentation I put together with photographs. Most issues I have presented as facts, may not exactly be scientific facts. Why? Even some of the dates are still under dispute and probably always will be. Maybe I should have used Historian majority consensus instead of fact. Then again much that is considered scientific fact is still really scientific theory. Fact makes a greater impact.
Of all the things that could have been debated or disputed, and there are plenty in this article the majority of you that replied latched onto a lesser issue, "More people have died in the name of A GOD," which could mean, idol, devil, alien, dictator people viewed as a god, etc. I assumed this idea was common knowledge. I am actually amazed at this argument. It is not one I coined, used but created no. For those of you who couldn't follow the article correctly, Test of Faith is not about how many died for whatever cause. I WILL SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU! It is about the radical factions of Christianity and Islam. Why they are that way, (grey areas that allow them to be that way) contradictions and misconceptions about the religions and the dangers of this type of increasing mentality.
As far as Reformed and/or Roman Catholic Theology. (specifically on the nature of God) There is a huge contradiction if one is to believe each part of the Trinity is a separate entity (God) and not representative more as a particular nature of God. Both the Old Testament and New Testament state there is only 1 GOD. All others are false. Generally speaking even if they were separate gods, each represents a different nature and that is why it was included in both the fact and contradiction sections of my article. This issue also became the best fuel for the Islamic belief system to ignite in the first place. Another example and an issue others use to dispute validity is the issue of Priests and marriage. I mean some modern Catholics still think that the reason Priests can't marry is because of a religious ideology dedication to Christ, instead of a fiscal one, Loss of property and control.
Jack
Budhist
May 3, 2007 - 20:07 ET by shawn228How about Budhism? Never heard of molesting Budhist monk or a suicide bomber Budhist huh? lol
Buddhist Monks
May 4, 2007 - 11:37 ET by deceptionreportNever heard of a suicide monk before. They are a peacful people, except for the brawl some monks had recently in the news. I considered including it into this article but there are many more critical issues with Christianity and Islam than there is with Buddhism. Plus I think this article was long enough as is. I also studied Buddhism extensively. I traveled to a couple of different monasteries, stayed for a week, etc. Of course extremists say they are wrong, there shouldn't be multiple paths and stages to enlightenment or Nirvanna. Did you know that their have been monks scientifically studied raising and lowering their body temperatures by 20 degrees through meditation? They also understood the principle of energy, magnetism, electricity and its correlation with the body a long time ago. They have been shown leviatating, and conducting miraculous healings. How do extremists of other religions explain it? As the devils work, or their invoking of the black arts. Jesus did all this, he said us Christians could do the same. Have you seen a Christian actually do any of it. I haven't. Half the people supposedly healed came back with the same infirmities a week or a month later, sometimes they were worse off because they believed they didn't need their medicine anymore. Something god gave mankind the wisdom to create for our care. Other stories I heard about people being raised from the dead, speaking other languages, visions of the future, where just that stories, most of the time 3rd or 4th hand accounts. Visions almost always are vague or stated after the fact, God told showed me that, well why didn't you tell me before then. Faith, must have faith is their response. I remember someone saying a Turkish man told them that when they spoke in tongues they were speaking fluent Turkish. I have many Turkish friends and speak it myself. There were a few words that could be construed as turkish but they definetly weren't speaking it in any rational sense.
Jack
Sickness
May 11, 2007 - 19:53 ET by NortoBeliever
I worked in homeless shelter for 4 years and there were many who went through there like Jack. Very erudite, but with no logic or ability to tie their huge volume of thoughts into a comprehension of what is actually happening on the ground. Parnoid Schizophrenics every one.
I for one would not be drawn into their world, they will turn you 4 ways to Sunday, and the fallen angel is behind it all. Even the demons believe in Him and will be called out of Jack if jack will ask.
Wow I must have really came close to home for you.
May 15, 2007 - 19:01 ET by deceptionreportI'm sorry to burst your bubble because I struck a nerve, but I'm no devil, demon, fallen angel, Nephilim, watcher, evil spirit or any other names you might try to give me out of a desperation to discredit me.
I am a spiritual, loving, caring husband who attends church and prays. There is nothing wrong with questioning religious authority or any others for that matter. What's wrong is when it is never questioned. This is not the middle ages although many are trying to take us back there. Without reality checks our leaders will take an inch and run with it a mile. Need proof just look at all the corporate scandals, political corruption (for corporations not the people), church scandals, and frauds of recent years. Cults, racism, semitism, abuse, scandals all abound when people become robots and just do everything they are asked and stop asking why. Have you heard of the new Messiah cult, millions strong marking themselves with 666, even though it is clearly stated as the mark of the beast in the bible. They are doing it for the man who is supposed to be Jesus returned. This is recent. Why do so many fall for stuff like this. I answered that question with this article and the comments I have made. The system of checks and balances was created for a reason.
I'm sorry if some of this is over your head or just impossible for you to believe but it is all logical and tied together whether you want to believe it or not. Actually I don't think one could be more logical in explaining both sides of the religious issue good and BAD.
Some people are simple minded and incapable of multi-tasking or having volumes of ideas and the ability to retain information of all types with ease. I agree with you, but not all homeless fit that mold either. I have seen, heard, helped and read about plenty of people like this as well as those, i.e. Parnoid Schizophrenics, Bi-polars, Autistics who sometimes show great abilities yet can't pull everything else together. There are also those who can multi-task, speed read, retain information with ease, be creative, socialable, caring, sensitive, intuitive, respected etc. and they aren't crazy. Most of them become the successful, leaders, scientists, inventors, doctors, presidents, ceo's, executives, of the world. They are also the ones the masses become envious of.
As much as you might wish I was, I am not one of those Parnoid Schizophrenics. I have volunteered much time to meals on wheels, shelters, fundraisers, etc. I also suffered the consequences of some of those who can't be helped or have demons cast out. They will only drag you down, use and abuse you. My sweet, caring, conservative, spiritital, extremely faithful mother almost lost her mind from the naitivity and abuse she suffered from her inability to distinguish people, their nature and character traits. Everything became good vs. evil and we as people and our own choices and responsibilites were left by the wayside.
I don't claim to know everything or even close to the supposed 1/trillionth of 1% of all knowledge, but I do know more than the majority chooses and is capable of learning. I ask to be educated from all walks of life as long as it stays within a moral ground. I also believe each and every person has something to teach us all. Walk away and ignore them because they disagree, they are black, white, young, old, sick, rich, poor, man or woman, foreign or dressed poorly well then you truly aren't allowing yourself to learn unbiasedly. You make yourself a Bigot.
The Christian Section combines the main ideas and contradictions of all major Christian sects. Luthern, Protestant, Methodist, Catholic, Non-Denominational, Mormons etc. although I would have to say the Catholic portion tends to have more contradictions than the rest other than the Mormons. I did the same for Islam for a reason. Sorry you couldn't comprehend the reason.
For someone who professes to be a believer, then to you should understand your belief system and not be hypocritical, for you speak the cruelest words. Much more so than I have spoken to any of the other commentors. It doesn't get much worse or more idiotic than saying because someone calls into question your beliefs then they must be evil and need to undergo an excorsim.
Being turned turned 4 ways to Sunday, is not always a bad thing. Think about how you were taught in grade school. Bombarded with information which would do the same. Guess what it was part of the learning process in learning more for those who wanted a greater understanding of their world and the people in it. Some have a harder time seeing the whole picture, they get confused, give up, or bully those who do get it.
Very much sane, Jack
Sickness
May 11, 2007 - 19:54 ET by NortoBeliever
I worked in homeless shelter for 4 years and there were many who went through there like Jack. Very erudite, but with no logic or ability to tie their huge volume of thoughts into a comprehension of what is actually happening on the ground. Parnoid Schizophrenics every one.
I for one would not be drawn into their world, they will turn you 4 ways to Sunday, and the fallen angel is behind it all. Even the demons believe in Him and will be called out of Jack if jack will ask.
like a blind man trying to ki
May 13, 2007 - 09:44 ET by hillbillyhatfieldlike a blind man trying to kill a bat in a dark room. so much knowlegde not understood, yet using there limited intelligence to justify there existance. we know 1/trillionth of 1% of all knowledge and we are so arrogant to think we know everything. A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
the christian section combines both catholic and protostant beliefs.
10 Commandments
May 21, 2007 - 10:11 ET by The Wicked ConservativeBecause so many men had influence over the writings incorporated into
the books they were automatically subject to human error. The ten
commandments are the only text that can be considered as the infallible
word of God. It was written (in
Samaritan script not Arabic) on stone tablets and given to the people
immediately after Moses climbed down from a mountain. That left only
one possible author other than god, Moses. This following a string of
miraculous events and predictions which should lead one to believe it
did come from God. Then thereafter with all the miracles and
independently verified events surrounding the Ark of the Covenant.
The same way the pen doesn't get the credit for a letter you write, man does not receive credit for the Bible. Now, let's put aside your beliefs about the rest of the bible and just follow your "logic" about the 10 commandments. So you say the commandments are the infallable word of God. Then why not follow them? You think christians are intolerant? Wait till you meet God and find out how He feels about people who break His law and don't have a savior.
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. Talk sense to a
liberal and he calls you a racist, sexist, biggot, homophobe, denier.