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February 12, 2012
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Test of Faith

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33 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/04/2007 - 6:06pm
deceptionreport
User offline. Last seen 4 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 02/26/2007
DO YOU REALLY KNOW HOW STRONG THE GROUND IS YOU STAND ON? HAVE YOU REALLY OBSERVED WITHOUT BIAS ANOTHERS PERSPECTIVES BEFORE FORMING YOUR OWN? Do your beliefs come from personal experience or that of others? Its okay to have faith but be careful of too much blind faith. Don’t ignore that which surrounds you, especially when it if full of blarring contradictions. Have you ever said or felt seeking comfort and simplicity, that if my ancestors believed it then so should I. There is no need to question authority or dig any deeper. Authority must be questioned, our country the USA, slavery, women's rights, cults, workers rights, child abuse, medicine and freedom might not exist as it does today or could be worse without criticism & questioning from a courageous few. Religions have endured, evolved, increased in number and changed the course of history since the birth of humanity. • All Religions have contradictions, some more than others. • More people have died in the name of religion or god than for any other reason. • A religious bias exists from birth. Depending on what region and culture one is raised in. • Religion provides and explanation for the unknown or supernatural. Science provides the definition. • A natural longing exists in most people to find something greater than themselves and for there to be life after death. CHRISTIANITY & ISLAM These two are the focus because the extreme factions of both are coming face to face in even more dangerous ways than before. The outcome of Global Terrorism is tied to their ability to interpret correctly, respect & tolerate each other. THE FACTS FIRST: CHRISTIANITY • 3 names for the nature of God, the (Trinity) • 2000 B.C. • Jesus • Cross • Bell • The Bible • Prophets From Isaac’s ancestral line ISLAM • 570 A.D. • Mohammed • Crescent • Call • The Quran • From Ishmael’s ancestral line • 99 names for the nature of Allah More ISLAM FACTS • Oldest Carbon dated Quran 700 A.D. • Hadith is a gathering of Mohammed’s sayings written down by his followers. • Mohammed first sermon age 40. • Path to heaven, accept there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger. Good works increase your odds. All is written, the only guaranteed way into heaven is to die in a Jihad for Allah. • No clear independent party verifications, some archeology. • Mecca, the most holy city • The Kabba is the most holy site. • Mohammed died revered. • Mohammed had 11-13 wives, Aisha was 6 years old while he was 54. • Mohammed was a warrior and military leader. • Illiterate Merchant • No clear heir designated. • 3 divisions of Islam, Sunni the majority, Shia the minority (has sects) and Sufi a very small faction. • Muslims must complete the 5 Pillars of Islam, (Faith proclamation, pray 5 times a day, Hajj to Mecca, almsgiving, and fasting. More CHRISTIANITY FACTS • Oldest Carbon dated Old Testament (Torah) 700 B.C. • Oldest Carbon dated New Testament (Injeel) among the Dead Sea Scrolls 100 A.D. • Jesus first sermon age 15 • Path to heaven accept Jesus as the savior, and ultimate sacrifice for mankind's sins. One must also be baptized. Good Works improve your placement in heaven. • Independent verifications (not part of the religioug following),Romans, Jews, Egyptians,archeology, etc. • Jerusalem, the most holy city. • Church of the Holy Sepulchre is the most holy site. • Jesus was crucified on a cross • Jesus had 0-1 possible wives being Mary Magdalene. • Jesus never killed or inflicted painon another. • Literate Carpenter • Peter designated as the heir. • Christianity, multiple divisions, Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran,Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Protestant, Pentecostal, etc. • Christians must repent, ask forgiveness for their sins, give alms, proclaim Jesus as the savior and read the bible. FINAL FACTS: CHRISTIANITY • Convert to another religion or question Christianity the worst case scenario is to be shunned in the community, and be considered damned to hell. No religious police • 1st spread by word of mouth, 2nd the worlds most published book the Bible. 3rd the sword. 4th economics (colonization). • Slaves, women (witch trials) & other minorities suffered unjust treatment by the Christian hand. • One religious war fought by the divisions of Christianity, Catholics vs. Knights Templar. ISLAM • Convert to another religion or question Islam the worst case scenario is torture, exile, execution and damnation in hell. • 1st spread by word of mouth, 2nd by the sword & victory in battles as justification. 3rd the Quran. 4th economics (merging of the tribes, trade expansion). • Women, children, infidels & Arab suppression under the Islamic hand, less overall minority suppression. • Multiple wars fought between Shias & Sunni’s based on religious differences. BEWARE OF PEER PRESSURE! If you see a chart to represent the religion growths without world population regional growth rates to go along with it, then it is being presented as propaganda. •Be careful of those who try to prove and justify their beliefs based on peer pressure. Just because there might be a percentage increase from one religion to another doesn’t mean it is because everyone is now convinced it is the one true right religion. This is poorly used propaganda. World population patterns are the main factor for this and the natural religious bias that exists from birth. •Middle East population growth rates are among the highest in the world. Since 1960, the region’s population has more than tripled, from 106 million to 326 million people. The largest population gain for the region was in Iran, which added almost 50 million people. The Middle East Population Projections: •Population is expected to more than double by 2050 to reach 649 million individuals. Saudi Arabia and Yemen are expected to grow almost fourfold by 2050, from 24 million to 91 million, and from 19 million to 71 million, respectively. Egypt and Iran are predicted to have populations of over 100 million in 2050. •The primary factor driving population growth in the Middle East is extremely high fertility rates. In 2002, the highest total fertility rates were in Yemen, Palestine and Saudi Arabia, at 7.2, 5.9 and 5.7 births per woman, respectively. Tunisia (2.1), Lebanon (2.4) and Iran (2.5) had the lowest rates in the region. •Populations are decreasing in Western nations. There is no longer any need to have 3 or more children to help run the farm anymore. With equal rights and 2 working parents it also no longer makes sense to have more than 2 children considering both time and money. They also understand the importance of keeping world population rates sustainable. The rate in the United States is 0.91% (2006 est.) That is less than 1 child per family. IMPORTANT POINTS: • You can always know a false god. False gods always demand the BLOOD OF INNOCENTS. Whenever the innocent and just are being slain, there you will find Moloch the god Ba'al; always masquerading. Islam’s punishments especially to women are barbaric. Stoning, torturing and burying alive. Take a trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran or other conservative Muslim countries and you might notice stone piles (in Saudi Arabia they are all around the airport) These are the graves of women stoned to death. Is this really fair for women accused of having sex with another man while their husbands under Islamic law can have multiple sexual partners? In those same countries if a woman speaks out against her husband in public, it is justified for the people around her to then beat her. Is it fair that women must cover themselves & sometimes suffer heat strokes because of the weakness of man? Even with the covering men still lust & undress women with their mind. Some Islamic parents even support their children's suicides as justified under the Jihad against the infidels (non-believers). All other religions suicide of any kind leads to Hell or some kind of punishment. • Islam split only 24 years after the death of Mohammed, The 1st lasting split for Christianity (Nestorianism) came in 431 A.D. over translation concerns from Latin to Aramaic & calling Mary the mother of God instead of the Mother of Christ. They also understood Christ to exist as 2 persons the divine and the bodily. • Mohammed's Ascension (Inspiration for the Arabian Nights stories) or Mi‘raj was in a vision, and was not physical. The actual phrase used that "he was transported only in spirit (bi ruhihi) while his body did not leave its place." In another of Bukhari's Hadith, it is written, "whilst I was in a state between that of one sleeping and one awake" (Bukhari 59:6).It is also stated that the ascension took place from his cousins house Ali ibn Abi Tali which was in Medina not in Jerusalem. • According to tradition, the Dome of the Rock was built to commemorate Muhammad's ascension into heaven after his night journey to Jerusalem (Qur'an 17). Why would Islam desecrate a holy Jewish and Christian site? To attempt to replace it and make their own beliefs more powerful. Jews believed, and still believe, the rock to be the very place where Abraham prepared to sacrifice Isaac. • Calling the Bible or the Quran the infallable word of God is irrational. Because so many men had influence over the writings incorporated into the books they were automatically subject to human error. The ten commandments are the only text that can be considered as the infallible word of God. It was written (in Samaritan script not Arabic) on stone tablets and given to the people immediately after Moses climbed down from a mountain. That left only one possible author other than god, Moses. This following a string of miraculous events and predictions which should lead one to believe it did come from God. Then thereafter with all the miracles and independently verified events surrounding the Ark of the Covenant. • Scientific Predictions are not prophecies, The bible clearly states all holy writings and prophets can only be considered that after miracles or detailed prophecies have occurred and come to pass. Deuteronomy 18:22 says, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." MORE IMPORTANT POINTS: • The Quran has no predictions other than vague scientific statements that have not come to pass. Science is the only true test to prove the Quran is a divine document. The other based upon poetic symmetry & saying the Quran itself is a miracle is not logical theology. Besides one could say that about Shakespeare’s writing and he was one man writing beautiful, poetic stories on his own. Mohammed had a whole band of people writing down his words because he could not read and write. People who can’t read and write can still tell brilliant, colorful stories and did in his day. There are 22 Quaranic predictions cited, about divine judgment and blessing at the end of history they are found at: Sura 2:88-89; Sura 3:10, 106, 107, 144; Sura 8:7; Sura 9:14; Sura 28:85; Sura 48:16-21, 28; Sura 54:44-48; and Sura 56:1-56. -- Please look at each one carefully.--These Quranic verses have not yet happened in history; therefore, they do not qualify as fulfilled predictions, and they do not yet verify that Mohammed is a true prophet, nor that the Quran is truly from God. Overall the Quran claims only dozens of predictions while the Bible had over 3,500 predictions. • Because Muslims proclaim the Quran is true because of scientific predictions in particular “The Big Bang Theory” then it is also false under those same premises. Here is a supposed predictive, scientific verse in the Quran proved false multiple times. On the day when We will ROLL UP HEAVEN like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about. Surah 21:104. Einstein’s theory predicts that THE UNIVERSE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPAND FOREVER if there is, on average, less than about a sugar cube's worth of matter and energy per trillion cubic miles of space. More recently, In the past couple of years by mapping the Supernova explosions and the time it take for the light to be seen from earth, Astronomers have found that the expansion of the universe is actually speeding up. • Problems with “The Big Bang Theory” as a prediction: The idea that the universe began as some sort of gaseous vortex was ubiquitous throughout Persian and Greek ideology before the time of Muhammad and the Quran. Plus The Arabic word used is dukhan, "smoke,” not gas. Greek philosophers guessed a lot of scientific details correctly--they anticipated atoms, other solar systems, evolution, the laws of thermodynamics, the rain cycle, you name it. That doesn't make them supernaturally prescient, nor does it do so for the Quran. The Mayans created a calendar around 400 BC that could predict within a day over a 500 year span of time solar and lunar eclipses. As the date approached accuracy was within seconds. Predicting an eclipse does not count as a prophetic prediction. Besides Mohammed was fearful of the solar eclipse. The Hadith, Bukhari, Vol 2, No. 167 "The sun eclipsed and the prophet jumped up terrified that it might be the Hour (of Judgement)" • The difference between the Shi’a which in itself has many sects and the Sunnis began as a matter of succession (political not spiritual but has since transgressed to religious, spiritual ideology). • Abu Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law and one of the leaders of the Ummah was the first to take succeed. The Shi'a, or Shi'at Ali, the party of Ali, believe that Mohammed divinely ordained his cousin and son-inlaw, Ali ibn Abi Talib, in accordance with God's command, making Ali and his descendents Mohammed's true successors (caliphs). The largest denomination in Islam, the Sunnis, hold that Abu Bakr and all caliphs should be chosen by community consensus, that this method of choosing or electing leaders (Shura) is endorsed by the Quran. • Shia & Sunni’s also differ on their views of the Hadith. Many Shia also believe it to be the infallible word of Allah, while Sunni’s believe it to be the sayings of Mohammed. Shia tend to be the more conservative faction. There interpretation of the covering of women (hijab) is an example of this. death squads & religious enforcers are more commonly associated and practice under the Shia rule. Shia more often passionately follow violent practices and have a more broad definition of the Jihad (holy war) than the Sunni. Osama bin Laden & Al-Qaeda are an exception. Example, The Day of Ashura (mourning for the death of Husayn ibn Ali, grandson of Mohammed). Photos to the right show how even children cut themselves with knifes. COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS & CONTRADICTIONS: CHRISTIANITY Jesus, Christ the savior is the son of God. 1st of all this belief was not finalized until The Council of Nicea in 325 AD under the Roman emperor Constantine’s command. According to Catholic tradition only the pope has the authority to make final decisions on which religious texts are truly from God. 3 Bishops were at the council but not the pope. • Many followers and disciples never expressed that opinion. Some of the dead sea scroll writings dated within a 100 years of Jesus show this. • If Jesus is the son of God, Adam must be recognized that way even more so. Jesus was born via the angel Gabriel impregnating his Earthly mother Mary. Adam came directly from God. God showed he could do it alone. • (Fallen) Angels impregnated women before according to the (Old Testament) Torah. Giants and later demons were their offspring. A divine angel such as Gabriel then would not create a direct offspring of God but an “anointed one” and the Hebrew definition of that is Christ. • Also In Judaism, the Messiah ( ַ חי ִ שׁ ָ מ) Aramaic אחישמ) initially meant any person who was anointed by a prophet of God. ISLAM • Muhammed’s reason for receiving a message from God and becoming a prophet was to clarify the mistakes of other religions. 1st of all for a Messenger supposedly inspired by God, Gabriel, his many wives (1 who convinced him he was divine at age 40 and another 6 year old wife Aisha who he had his most prophetic messages from god while he lay with her ("Muhammad used to get divine inspiration only in Aisha's bed"...3.47.755) made a pretty large mistake in not designating a clear successor don’t you think. • 2nd Muhammed stands completely alone when it comes to recognized messengers and prophets of the Old & New Testaments. He is uncharacteristic of any prophets before him. He is also the only one from the ancestral line of Ishmael. The line of prophets proves Isaac was the holy son & documents dating 700 BC a 1000 years before the Quran are not as likely to have changed. Mohammed had no miracles and made no prophecies that have come to pass other than stating the Romans would have a victory which is like saying in MORE CHRISTIAN: • Constantine had final say so and control over what became the books included into the New Testament. Christians argue he was divinely inspired. That is impossible to prove, but when you look at historical Constantine it begins to look pretty unlikely. In order to please his wife he converted to Christianity. Then to avoid conflict with his prior Pagan Sun God beliefs he incorporated them into Christianity. • December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god. • The 2 most common editions of the bible are translations of translations. Anyone who speaks more than 1 language understands the difficulty in transferring meanings accurately. • In England, the authorized Bible didn’t become available to the common people until the decree of King James the II in 1611. The most popular Bible is the Old Testament and full NIV Bible published in 1978, and a modified edition published in 1984. • People also forget the historical cultures, traditions, way of life and how different they were from modern times. For one the disparity between the rich and poor was much greater. There was no middle class. Those not in the miniscule upper class didn’t have access to much information beyond what they were told. Most could not read. They were very naïve. • Now think about the information, technology and communication channels open to the masses today. Yet they are still as naïve even with all that information available. Examples: David Koresh Cult, Jim Jones and the hundreds who committed suicide in Jonestown. The Mormons and their golden tablets given to Joseph Smith from the Native Americans (supposed lost 10 tribes of Israel) Nevermind the fact no one other than Joseph saw them and the book of Mormon has been changed several times since the 1800’s. I.E. Polygamy. Then how about electing a president without International experience that fabricates a reason to go to war for his own personal gains and believing him while the real war on terror is abandoned and ignored in the places really harboring terrorists. • The Trinity and Mary Many modern day Christians focus too much attention on 1 part or another of the Trinity. They are 1 and must be worshiped as 1. Jesus is considered the physical, personal embodiment of God on earth, God is the God of Space & time (the heavens) The holy Spirit is his spiritual presence here on earth. Pentecostals focus too much on the Holy Spirit, Catholics, Jesus and Mary. Methodists, Baptists, & Lutherans too much on Jesus. Count how many times God is mentioned in a sermon compared to Jesus, Mary and the Holy Spirit. It is not more as it should be. It is no wonder Muslims and others think Christians worship 3 gods. • Graven Images The Bible clearly states no idols and graven images. Are Christians so simple minded that they have to have representations of Jesus and Mary everywhere in order to worship effectively? And in regards to Mary she was the revered earthly mother of Jesus but that was it. Catholics practically worship Mary as another God. There are more statues and references to her than Jesus and God himself. This is a major contradiction. •Jesus Forgives the thief while on the cross. Luke 23:39-43 39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.“ This demeans the act of Good Works. In other words it is saying that regardless of how you lived your life, lying on your deathbed you can accept Christ & go to heaven. Some Christians will then argue that good works will earn you a better place in heaven. That idea doesn’t work because once your in heaven it doesn’t matter where you are or how big your house is and since there is no sin in heaven only peace & happiness, one of the 7 deadly sins ENVY can’t occur. MORE ISLAM: • Ishmael is not looked highly upon in the Torah. in Genesis 16:12, "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." As it turns out, Ishmael had twelve sons (Genesis 17:20). Genesis 21:8-10: "And the child grew, and was weaned, and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham mocking. Wherefore she said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son, for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."' 1 Genesis passage even calls Ishmael & his people, “Wild Donkeys.” • Isaac was the only son at the time of God’s commandment to Abraham to sacrifice his only son. Ishmael was banished and sent away with his slave mother Hagar. • Since Islam recognizes Isa (Jesus) as a holy prophet then it should recognize his teachings, especially from Mathew, Mark, Luke & John which were written in different regions within a 100 years of the death of Jesus yet still turned out almost identical. You can not declare someone a holy prophet then deny his teachings & the words of his trusted disciples. Saying texts were changed, doesn’t have much clout, discovered scrolls much older than the Quran have been found unchanged. Translation errors is all that can be used for dispute. • Major contradiction in teaching styles about adultery: ONE OF THE PROPHETS IS WRONG! One time a woman was brought to Mohammed who had committed adultery. They asked him, "What shall we do with her? Muhammad said, "Go away. Bring her back after the baby is born." So they brought her back after the baby was born, & Muhammad said, "Let her go and nurse the child. Bring her back when the child is two years old." So they brought her back, & Muhammad said, "Take the baby from her and kill her." And that is what they did. Compare this to the teachings of Jesus about adultery, according to the Gospel of John. the Jewish Priests (Pharisees), in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. The Pharisees reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Law of Moses and challenged Jesus to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man, lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.” The Bible prophesied the coming of Mohammad • There are some passages which Muslims refer to as proof that the Bible prophesied Mohammad's advent. The most well known is Deuteronomy 18:18. In this passage, God says he will raise up a prophet for Israel from among their countrymen. Some translations use "brothers" or "brethren." Islamic teachers take "brothers" to mean from Ishmael's decedents. What most Muslims are not educated about is the fact that Ishmael and his decedents are not referred to as "brothers' of Israel in the Old Testament. In fact, only Esau's descendants could be referred to as "brothers" since Esau was the brother of Jacob, through whom the national of Israel was born. Mohammad, Islam's prophet, was not of the tribes born from Esau. The other common reference made is: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26). The "Comforter" refers to the Holy Spirit who descended on the Apostles of Jesus at Pentecost, just as Jesus said. Borrowed customs and secular traditions turned into religious rituals. Many of the Islamic rituals are not unique to Islam. Judaism first declared pork as unclean because people would get sick & sometimes die from improperly handling the meat of an undomesticated animal. Eventually this became a religious custom. Washing of the hands before eating also became a religious custom in this manner. Bacteria was unknown then and when people washed they didn’t get sick as often. This lead to the idea of washing (getting clean of evil and sin) before prayer. Jews pray toward the wailing wall, (remains of Herod’s Temple where god first resided on earth). Muslims toward the Kabba where Gods house now supposedly resides. Jews use the horn for calling to worship, Christians the Bell, Muslims the voice. The idea of one God is believed by the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Some Muslims will reach even further for justification of Mohammed’s holiness. Example: Mohammed's persecutors didn’t look in the cave because of a spider web covered the entrance of the cave & it was a miracle he was not captured. It takes most spiders less than 30 minutes to build a web from scratch. Another is a passage in the Quran that claims to predict genetic engineering. Sura 4:119 "they shall slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation" In context this is talking about "slitting the ears of cattle" and such "defacing of nature" Not nearly a description of "genetic engineering," but is the common actions of farmers. The Bible is direct and very specific with its predictions. It gives names, dates and places. The Quran does not. MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS ARTICLE: 1. Not necessarily to offend, but to force extremists to think a little more and not take things so literally. If you already knew all presented here & questioned your religious authority about it, then congratulations you a part of the minority & probably aren’t the type of person to resort to violence when you can’t respond to someone's criticism with anything other than “It is written, have faith, or God told me so.” 2. It is also a direct response to an Islamic propaganda presentation e-mailed to me. 3. I have grown tired of religious disputes among people who don’t really even know much about the religion they are fighting so passionately for, much less someone else's. Or people who prey on the weak for converts because they don’t have enough knowledge or courage to help their own & it’s an easier way to feel empowered. People who don’t have their basic needs met or that are looking for acceptance will do almost anything to appease those giving them attention and handouts. Many struggle to survive and haven’t even been given a gift before. If that gift is a Quran or a Bible there is a pretty good chance they are going to revere it and the person who gave it to them. 4. People sometimes are too lazy to think and question authority. To many people just go with the flow and that is dangerous. History has proven this and the wrongs of history repeat themselves when the issues presented here are not addressed properly and people stop questioning their leaders. 5. To show that Contradictions must not be overlooked and hidden. If you are devout to your religion then you will know them so address them if you can If you can’t then how do you expect toleration, peace and justice to occur? It won’t happen through blind faith. None of the Contradictions I have presented here really undermine the “actual message” of Christianity. 6. I like the rest of Americans have the right to rebel against the religious thought we were raised with. I was raised as a Christian, first Methodist then a variety of the Pentecostal Churches. I saw far too much hypocrisy and suffered much pain because of blind faith, people seeking power over others by religion and improper justifications through religion. I turned away long ago searching for anything else that would keep me from having to accept a belief system that caused me so muchanguish. Islam was my 1st hope but I am a rational person and after much evasion to the logical questions I asked as a potential converter, manipulation of the facts and so many contradictions that undermine the whole religion, I found it nearly impossible to accept. If you have questions, comments or would like a much more visually appealing PowerPoint presentation of this article e-mail me at: deceptionreport@hotmail.com Jack Turner
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