Is there any canard against President Bush more tired than the notion that he ignores the Establishment Clause, or as his liberal critics tend to put it, the "separation of church and state"? Maureen Dowd offered a classic exemplar of the criticism on this morning's Meet the Press, telling Tim Russert that: "W has sort of merged church and state while trying to keep them apart in Iraq."Russert didn't ask Dowd to substantiate her assertion. But when Bush antagonists are pressed for proof, they typically point to the president's Faith-Based Initiative and the manner in which the W incorporates religious themes in his public pronouncements. But as has been documented, Pres. Bush has in fact invoked religion much less explicitly than many of his predecessors, including liberal icon FDR. In his D-Day prayer, for example, Roosevelt stated, among other things, that "with Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy." I defy Dowd or others sharing her view to provide an example of Pres. Bush coming anywhere close to FDR in suggesting that God is on our side. As for the Faith-Based Initiative, it incorporates a variety of safeguards specifically designed to prevent violation of the Establishment clause, including the following:
- Religious groups may not use direct government funds to support inherently religious activities such as prayer, worship, religious instruction, or proselytization.
- Any inherently religious activities that the organizations may offer must be offered separately in time or location from services that receive federal assistance.
- Religious organizations cannot discriminate on the basis of religion when providing services.
Contact Mark mark@gunhill.net
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
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M.Dowd...long ago left behind...
February 25, 2007 - 12:38 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasThis creation of the Crybaby Boomer generation long ago got left behind by the short bus. There is nothing clever or original with this most average writer. Her critical thinking skills are barely measurable. I do understand given the dullard disposition of Crybaby Boomers she might appear a stitch or two beyond the circles of the "Idiocracy" in which she moves but generally this pouting old maid whose life is a constant undercurrent of seething rage toward men is akin to the acting skills of David Lander who played Squiggy on Laverene and Shirley; a recognizable name with no substance. An 8th grader could rebut her silly arguments without much more than an hour of preparation.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
Rudy will never past muster w
February 25, 2007 - 16:17 ET by john ryanRudy will never past muster with the right wing evangelasists. 3 marriages is just too many. Plus all of the other womanizing.
Rudy won't have that much of a problem...
February 25, 2007 - 16:34 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasRudy won't have as much of a problem as you imagine. Much of the Christian Right, apart from its leaders and a percent of its sychophants, are starting to wake up and realize that treating God like a voodoo doll and with contempt by imagining putting his name on currency, making abortions illegal and trying to institute a THEOCRACY LITE impresses God and forces his hand to bless America...is disgusting and wrong.
They indeed are quite Christian but are maturing and beginning to understand that good leadership and national security is secured by providing workable solutions for all citizens and the personal foibles and weaknesses of leaders doesn't negate their strengths and realistic potential. Many Christians are waking up and abandoning the "voodoo Christianity and poli-theology" errors of Falwell, Bauer, Robertson and Dobson. He will pass muster, you need to give conservative voters a bit more credit for being able to weigh things.
I will tell you what IS a shame. James Dobson who admitted NOT voting for Bob Dole in 1996 but a third party candidate because he didn't like Dole. Dobson wants Republican influence but sh!ts on them when it doesn't go his way and a born-again or appearing born-again candidate isn't leading the ticket. Dobson is as big a rat and crybaby as they come regarding the christian right, and it is HIS divisiveness and self-centeredness that is much of the problem for Republicans...born-again conservative Christians are getting as sick of him as they are already sick of Dowd on the left, just watch Rudy.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
Perfectly said!
February 25, 2007 - 19:43 ET by mostlymoderatePerfectly said!
I agree. Well said. I only ho
February 25, 2007 - 21:03 ET by curiousI agree. Well said. I only hope you're right.
Rudy will never past muster w
February 25, 2007 - 16:42 ET by Free StinkerRudy will never past muster with the right wing evangelasists.
Sorry, but as one of the Right-Wing Evangelists you speak of, rudy's got my vote.
~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing that seperates liberals from conservatives is that liberals are craftier and work without the hinderance of a conscience." --Lynn Wooley
You can dream, can't you?It w
February 25, 2007 - 21:24 ET by UnsaneYou can dream, can't you?
It won't matter as long as he appoints the right justices to the court. And as for being divorced, so what? That didn't stop conservatives from all stripes from supporting Reagan, and still doesn't.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
john ryan, at least, as far a
February 27, 2007 - 11:00 ET by MikeBjohn ryan, at least, as far as we know, Rudy didn't spend a lot of time whoring around with political interns and female subordinates, then lying about it to his wife. But, if Rudy is a philanderer, with all his pro-abortion, anti-gun, pro-tax positions, he should be able to count on a lot of votes from registered Democratics.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
It's enough for them for the
February 27, 2007 - 03:48 ET by Andrew H.It's enough for them for the haughty Dowd to say so--for any of them to say so--because they say it, it must be so. Never let the truth spoil an article, you know. The truth is something they'll make up for the rest of the great unwahsed.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
...
February 25, 2007 - 12:55 ET by JnobleMs Dowd is another bitter single lib woman who needs something that I won't describe here, but would definatly relax her :-) I don't care if I get flamed for daring to point this out, most of you know it's true.
Dowd's Comments
February 25, 2007 - 13:14 ET by CellaSteam keeps shooting out of the ears of this crazed twit.
She is indeed president emeritus of the Moonbats Hall of Immortals.
Ms. Dowd needs to speak with
February 25, 2007 - 13:33 ET by ArmedDadMs. Dowd needs to speak with Irshad Manji,liberal Muslim activist.Ms.Manji criticized President Bush for not backing 'secular' leaders for Iraq,instead supporting 'theocrats'.Doesn't sound like 'separation' to me.Dowd would do well to listen to other voices than just the ones that fit her Bush-hating template.
MoDo
February 25, 2007 - 14:09 ET by Gordon SchumwayMoDo looks as if she could use a good stiff one.
Gordo
Bartender To The Stars, Melmac
seriousness of the charge
February 25, 2007 - 14:15 ET by Pragmatic-Man"Hello everyone, I'm Tim Rustert, and welcome to MEET THE SERIOUSNESS
OF THE CHARGE. Today we will investigate the main stories of the day
just far enough to hear the charges against anything non-liberal, then
drive-by with a 30- round clip full of negative off-topic truisms that
do not hold up under the slightest scrutiny. But by then the initial
damage is done and we are back in our limousines heading to starbucks
while America sweeps the streets of broken glass and mops up the
political blood from our follies."
"W has sort of merged ch
February 25, 2007 - 16:22 ET by bigtimer"W has sort of merged church and state while trying to keep them apart in Iraq."
Merge this Dowd and you phony baloney a$$ Russert...
Sort of go to where the sun don't shine.
I am so tired of you all....you shameless idiotic enemies within this country...sort of.....
This sounds like Tim Russer
February 25, 2007 - 16:22 ET by motherbeltThis sounds like Tim Russert has a new gig as a "straight man" for Liberals.
To most Republican's, merging
February 25, 2007 - 17:04 ET by mostlymoderateTo most Republican's, merging Church and State is ok, so long as it is Christianity.
I disagree...
February 25, 2007 - 17:07 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasI disagree...But I will say I do think the concept of a Theocracy Lite has been much more tolerated by a vocal evangelical minority but overall I do not think MOST Republicans believe the merger is okay by any measure. By the way, God doesn't think it is okay either, per his Scriptures. ; )
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
MM: you've essentially endo
February 25, 2007 - 17:47 ET by Mark FinkelsteinMM: you've essentially endorsed Dowd's view. Since Russert didn't bother to ask, I will: on what evidence do you rely?
Faith Based Initiatives. Few
February 25, 2007 - 18:17 ET by mostlymoderateFaith Based Initiatives. Few federal agencies are monitoring faith-based organizations for compliance with Establishment Clause. Tax money shouldn't be used for faith-based organizations.
"Tax money shouldn't be
February 25, 2007 - 18:31 ET by Sua Sponte 75"Tax money shouldn't be used for faith-based organizations"
You mean like the government? I as many others have very little faith in the blackhole social programs my hard earned money goes to, yet it weeps for more.
"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"
TotallyImmoderate, government
February 27, 2007 - 11:09 ET by MikeBTotallyImmoderate, government shouldn't be involved in charity at all, much less faith-based charities. Where in the Constituion does it give the federal government the right or responsibility to provide food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or legal representation to anyone? If it isn't one of the Enumerated Powers, then the federal government doesn't have that power. Hence, all the marxist/socialist domestic programs you are so enamored with are unconstituional and illegal...besides being a complete waste of the tax-payers' money.
As for the establishment clause, the only thing the establisment clause means is that Congress would not create the Church of the United States. That is all. If you read that entire clause, it also adds "nor prohibit the free expression thereof." The establishment clause does not state, nor does it imply, that the federal government should be hostile to religion and work for its supression.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Tax monies should not be used
February 27, 2007 - 11:21 ET by bassndudeTax monies should not be used for any benevloent purpose. I defy you to show me in the Constitution of the United States of America where it sayes the federal goverment is to over see, or provide food, clothing or shelter to citizens, or over see a "faith based" anything. The Establishment Clause puts restraints on the Federal Goverment where churches and religion are concerned. It dosent give them the right nor responsibility to oversee it. Quite the opposite in fact. Get educated. Read it.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Agreed. Wouldn't it be nice
February 27, 2007 - 11:31 ET by sarcasmoAgreed. Wouldn't it be nice if just-one Presidential candidate said things like that referencing the limits placed on big government by the Constitution in the forthcoming "debate," regardless of said candidate's perceived chances of winning at this point??
JMR
Feingold attacked the Bush
February 25, 2007 - 17:29 ET by JDWFeingold attacked the Bush administration for using the term "Islamic fascism" and demanded they respect the al-qaeda religion.
We now have a Muslim in congress sworn in with his Koran.
Why are schools such as Brown banning groups from meeting or advertising on campus? Terrorists are teaching classes and the Bible is banned?
JDW
Wounded skier, beware of mistakes.
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
Al Queda is NOT a religion. W
February 25, 2007 - 18:26 ET by M J BAl Queda is NOT a religion. Wha proof is there of terrorists teaching? Give us a break.
From your post it looks as th
February 25, 2007 - 18:37 ET by Sua Sponte 75From your post it looks as though you know quite a bit about AQ. It's called de-sensitizing, which is highly present throughout many school systems. If you've picked up a paper lately you would notice how this has overcome the UK and Austrailia and is now breeding on our shores.
"Stupid should hurt"
Ah; the old when I have not a
February 25, 2007 - 19:17 ET by M J BAh; the old when I have not a decent answer call names trick!
Just what evidence have you of any of your posts?
You ask that I read a newspaper; not good enough!
What newspaper & when?
De sensitizing what who & when? What proof?
Is the Liberal media reporting on this ?
Ah; the old when I have not a
February 25, 2007 - 19:27 ET by Sua Sponte 75Ah; the old when I have not a decent answer call names trick!
Just where did you pick out that I called you anything?
Just what evidence have you of any of your posts?
Could you be less specific?
You ask that I read a newspaper; not good enough!
I didn't ask if you read the newspaper, I said it's evident if you do.
What newspaper & when?
?
De sensitizing what who & when? What proof?
Sigh...
Is the Liberal media reporting on this ?
Why would they?
"Stupid should hurt"
look, you people in ny might
February 25, 2007 - 19:13 ET by buddyclook, you people in ny might think this #itch is worthy or news comment. i live in the west. i have never read anything she has ever written.
dowd is your creation not mine. i could care less what she does or says. she is unimportant to me.Good for you buddyc....The le
February 25, 2007 - 19:17 ET by bigtimerGood for you buddyc....
The less ya know the better...eh?
Especially in her case.
LOL!
Dear Maureen Dowd, Do us
February 25, 2007 - 19:46 ET by ChriswelLDear Maureen Dowd,
Do us all a favour and shut the Hell up!
Sincerely,
ChriswelL :)
PS, what the, does she have a hairlip?"Maureen Dowd offered a
February 25, 2007 - 22:48 ET by Galvanic"Maureen Dowd offered a classic exemplar of the criticism on this morning's Meet the Press, telling Tim Russert that: 'W has sort of merged church and state while trying to keep them apart in Iraq.'"
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, 'There she goes again.' It's remarkable that in this oppressive theocracy or police state --- take your pick, or take both -- the shrill voices of the Looney Left are still heard. They aren't turning up dead in some alley, or vanishing. They're not even so much as being warned by the Federal authorities.
From what we've heard from former NY Timers, there's less freedom of speech and freedom of expression on the Times staff than there is in public. Dowd ought to concentrate on the unjournalistic merging of biases politics with newspaper publishing at her place of employment.
Here's something we could u
February 26, 2007 - 12:27 ET by Tim the EnchanterHere's something we could use right now in dealing with MoDo and her ilk- and it mixes Church and State quite nicely: The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch! Whoops- my mistake. From the looks of that picture, I think it already went off....
Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
February 26, 2007 - 12:35 ET by dagdaUsing the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch on Maureen Dowd would be over kill. I think she could be taken out with a hang nail.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
MTP is so meaningless anymore
February 26, 2007 - 12:38 ET by sembyMTP is so meaningless anymore; he had 3 liberals and 1 conservative.
And the host, Russert, has no more credibility; why did he not have to go before the grand jury...but was asked in his office.