Pilotsfor911truth.org show AA 77...


Pilotsfor911truth.org show AA 77 COULD NOT have hit the light poles from the NTSB animations and files that were released via a Fredom of INformation act.

I HIGHLY recommend watching this. If your SO sure that AA77 hit the Pentagon, maybe you should prove them wrong? Good Luck...the NTSB wouldn't respond to any discrepancies that they have found.

It was also nice seeing a military plane dropping a missle with wings out of its belly. Nice to know these things are possible for, ah hem, certain events...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8672066571196607580&q=pandora%27s+black+box


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That's what I thought. When y

That's what I thought. When you want to wake up, watch this next:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=9%2F11+mysteries

ThoughtPolice. Please, use

ThoughtPolice. Please, use your common sense. Don't fall for something just because you desperately want to believe it is so.

The video states that no steel structure has ever been brought down by a fire. HELLO! When a plane slices halfway through the freaking building, it is a LITTLE bit more than JUST A FIRE.

People heard explosions? And you find that unusual? Pressurized containers explode when heated. Just the fire extinguishers alone would be enough to make people think they were in a war zone. I'm sure there were tons of pressurized containers of all sorts in the WTC. When I build a campfire, sometimes a log will pop and be propelled upwards in an "explosion". I never once thought a government agency had planted explosives in the log. I knew there was a pocket of sap in the log that exploded because of the heat.

A rumbling preceeded the collapse? Hello...in a collapse, the internal structures fail first, falling inward and downward, with the exterior structure pulled along afterwards.

Think about it. The eyes of the world were on the WTC that day. ONLY a complete idiot would think, "Hey, lets fly planes into the building and then implode it. Nobody will notice." GOOD GRIEF.

You have yet to explain when and how all these explosives were planted in the building without anyone noticing. Have you EVER seen a building prepped for demolition? They have to literally gut the building to get access to all the appropriate support stuctures. Wires running EVERYWHERE. Just to bring down a 10 story building. And all this was done without ANYONE NOTICING????

Come on, you're smarter than that.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

First, if your talking about

First, if your talking about 9/11 mysteries, I adore you to watch Pandora's black box 2 (the first link). If your so inclined to come back here and say something like "those guys don't know what they'r talking about", feel free to debate them personally ...http://911blogger.com/node/5948

Second, no plane has ever fallen due to fire/damage before. WTC 7 WAS NOT HIT BY A PLANE!?! No 47 story building falls in 6.5 seconds because of fire/damage! WTC buldings 3,4,5, AND 6 were much more heavily damaged and ENGULFED in flames, unlike WTC 7. Watch all of 9/11 mysteries for proof. Or if you like, check out this link. These buildings were damaged 10 fold compared to WTC 7 as were there fires.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc3456.html

Third, as to the "logistics" of the operation (what Unsane likes to ask about when he gets a barrage of facts that he can't debate) I again refer you to 9/11 mysteries where it deals with that in some detail.

Come on, are you really not that smart?

Smart?

You clearly aren't, as you constantly refuse to answer my questions...

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

"First, if your talkin

"First, if your talking about 9/11 mysteries, I adore you to watch Pandora's black box... ...feel free to debate them personally.."

Aw shucks. I'm glad you adore me, but that's not gonna sway me TP. I know, I know, you implore me. But the reason I am posting on this thread is to debate you, not your sources. I am interested in finding out why you believe what you believe, not why other people believe what they believe.

"Second, no plane has ever fallen due to fire/damage before...."

I think if a plane was on fire, it certainly could and would fall from the sky. I know, I know, you meant "steel structure".

"WTC 7 WAS NOT HIT BY A PLANE!"

You keep bringing up other buildings to counter arguments that the twin towers were not intentionally imploded. I am not interested in the other buildings right now, our argument is about the twin towers. I will not pretend to know at this time, all the circumstances surrounding the collapse of nearby buildings. I suppose these could have been encouraged to fall, although I find that highly unlikely. Even then, the reason would be for something like insurance payoffs, not some government plot. More likely, a building's integrity would have been severly damaged by the collapse of some 50 gazillion tons of debris, don't you think? But back on topic. You say the twin towers were imploded. My arguments were about the folly of such logic. You need to refute the arguments as they relate to the twin towers.

"Third, as to the "logistics" of the operation (what Unsane likes to ask about when he gets a barrage of facts that he can't debate) I again refer you to 9/11 mysteries where it deals with that in some detail."

Once again, I am interested in why YOU believe this. Obviously these sources have convinced you. It should be a simple matter to convey your heartfelt convictions in words.

Make YOUR case TP. You have accused the government of imploding the twin towers. The onus is on YOU to prove how and why this was done. We are under no obligation to disprove any conspiracy theory. These "sources" have obviously convinced you. It should be a simple matter to put your convictions into words. Please TP, tell us how "they" were able to pull this off.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

If you were to read a book, a

If you were to read a book, and in the book there were facts, and you told someone what you learned then they asked "well, but why do YOU believe those facts?" What would you say? That is a preposterous question. If the movie presents facts and I believe those facts, that is why I believe what I believe.

Second, the reason WTC 7 is so important is because if there was  a Controlled Demolition involved, that means foreknowedge. Why? becuase you can't rig a building like that in one day. Thus, foreknowledge = inside job.

You are under no obligatin to disprove a "conspiracy" theory? Well, according to pilotsfor911truth they are presenting 100% fact. Thus, the "onus" is now on you. Looks like your conspiracy theory just got a little more interesting...

It is your job to prove the c

It is your job to prove the conspiracy, and nobody else's to disprove it.

I have one line of questioning for you, TP...

If the building was rigged, who did it?  And why haven't they stepped forward?  (Assuming it wasn't Cheney himself who did all the work in the dead of night with a skeleton key) Certainly by now the New York Times would have a confidential source close to the Bush Administration who had leaked this information, right? 

See, even as rabid a set of Bush-haters as the NYT is, they haven't even postulated that level of insanity.

Do you know how many people would have to die to cover up the conspiracy?  And don't tell me they were all in the tower when it fell, that would be just absurd.  Oh, wait, we're already at that level, aren't we?

TP, think about it.  If some

TP, think about it.  If someone asked me why I believe in Jesus and all I could say was "it's in the Bible, go read the Bible",  you could rightfully say that there was no foundation to my beliefs.   TP, if YOU cannot articulate YOUR position, you don't have much of a position.

Your second point.  You say that a building as big as WTC 7 cannot be rigged in a day, but yet you believe that all of these massive, occupied buildings were somehow "rigged" without anyone noticing. 

Your last point.  "According to pilotsfor911truth .... 100% fact."   The key phrase here is ... "According to".     According to Al Gore, man made global warming is a fact.   According to evolutionists, evolution is a fact.   According to abortioinists, abortion as a choice is fact.   None are fact.  All  are disputable, with supportive arguments on both sides.

Lastly, your failure to address peoples questions greatly diminishes your credibility. 

 When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

More Asshattery in Action

Wow, another TFH who refuses to believe that there is an enemy out there who wants to totally destroy our country, who would have thought.  It's sad that there are those as these who despise this country so much that they would rather believe the real enemy didn't do this.

CT theories made into swiss cheese:

1. Claim: Charles Burlingame, an ex-Navy F4 pilot who worked in the Pentagon, participated in an exercise simulating crashing a 757 into a building in October 2000, before retiring to take a job at American Airlines,

Truth: Charles Burlingame started working for AA in 1979 and retired from the Naval Reserve in 1996, 4 years before these supposed exercises took place. Source

2. Claim: Investors with prior knowledge of 9/11 made millions buying put options on airline stock.

Truth: Both the 9/11 committee and business journalists investigated this claim and found nothing unusual. Much of the investment also involved purchasing airline stock. Source

3. Claim: Plane crashing into World Trade Center was identified as a windowless cargo plane.

Truth: The man who claimed this, Marc Birnbach, was over 2 miles away at the time. Source

4. Claim: An air traffic controller reported that they thought flight 77 was a military plane.

Truth: The full quote was referring to the unsafe way the plane was flying, not that it was impossible for a civilian plane to fly like that. "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Source

5. Claim, Flight 77 managed to tear 5 light poles completely out of the ground,
Without damaging either the wings or the light poles themselves.

Truth: We don’t know that the wings were undamaged, since they crashed into the Pentagon fractions of a second later. There are pictures of the light poles, however, which show them broken and twisted. Source

6. Claim: The official explanation for flight 77 at the Pentagon is that the intense heat from the jet fuel vaporized the entire plane.

Truth: No official has made that claim, and in fact numerous pieces of the plane, including the bodies of the passengers, and the black boxes were found. Source

7. Claim: A spokesman for Rolls-Royce stated that engine parts found at the Pentagon did not belong to any of their engines.

Truth: The spokesman stated specifically that he was not an engineer and was not familiar with the engine in question. Source

8. Claim: Karl Schwarz President and Chief Executive Officer of Patmos Nanotechnologies LLC and I-Nets Security Systems, identified the engine as being a JT8D turbojet engine belonging to an A-3 Skywarrior.

Karl Schwarz is a proven fraud and conspiracy theorist, with no known background in technology or avionics. His companies are shell corporations with no employees or products. Furthermore, the A-3 Skywarrior never used a JT8D engine. The engine in question is consistent with that of the Rolls-Royce RB211 used by the 757. Source and here

9. Claim: Employees at the Pentagon were seen suspiciously carrying away a large box shrouded in a blue tarp.

Truth: The blue tarp was a tent, used to aid in the crash response. Source

10. Claim: The damage to the Pentagon was completely inconsistent with a Boeing 757?

Truth: Studies by NIST, the ASCE and Purdue University, including computer simulations show that the damage was perfectly in keeping with a crashing airplane. Source

11. Claim: The only damage to the outer wall of the Pentagon was a single hole, no more than 16 feet in diameter.

Truth: The hole was approximately 90 feet wide. The 16 foot measurement was only achieved by looking at pictures where the rest of the hole was obscured by smoke and foam from the firefighters. Source

12. Claim: No wreckage was found on the Pentagon lawn.

Truth: There are numerous pictures of plane wreckage, including those with the American Airlines paint scheme. Source
13. Claim: A 16 foot hole was punched in the C ring of the Pentagon by the airplane’s soft carbon fiber nose.

Truth: It was a 12 foot hole, and it was made by the much more resilient nose landing gear. Source

14. Claim: A cruise missile hit the Pentagon

Truth: Over a hundred documented witnesses, and many more unrecorded, saw in broad daylight a large commercial jetliner crash into the Pentagon. Many even specifically identified the airline. To this day, not a single person has come forward claiming to have seen a cruise missile. Source, source.

15. Claim: A white marking on the lawn the week before indicated the path of the crash.

Truth: This section of the Pentagon was being renovated and cables were being laid. And why would a cruise missile need directions anyway? Source
16. Claim: A number of military personnel at the Pentagon specifically mentioned smelling cordite.

Truth: The person (not a number of military personnel) in question was a lawyer not a munitions expert, and cordite is used in ammunition, not explosives. Source

17. Claim: WTC 7, a 47 story office building 300 feet away from the North Tower, suddenly collapsed for no reason.

Truth: There was nothing sudden about it. The building was hit by falling debris from one of the towers, was missing much of one corner, had a huge hole in the middle and was on fire for hours. The building had started leaning and making creaking noises so fire department officials ordered the evacuation of the area over an hour earlier. Source and here

18. Claim: On July 28th, 1945, a B-52 bomber lost in the fog crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building, 14 people dead, 1 million dollars in damage. But, the building stands intact to this day.

Truth: It was a B-25 bomber (the B-52 was not produced until 9 years later), a propeller driven plane about 1/10th the size of a 767, and was traveling about ¼ the speed. The fire only covered part of one floor, and was extinguished in less than an hour. Source

19. Claim: On February 23rd, 1991, a 38 story skyscraper in Philadelphia burned for more than 19 hours and spread over 8 floors. It did not collapse.

Truth: The firefighters fought the fire for 11 hours before they evacuated the building fearing a collapse. The building, which was never hit by an aircraft, was structurally unsound and later had to be demolished. Source

20. Claim: The south tower collapsed in just 9.2 seconds.

Truth: It is difficult to time because of all the smoke and debris, but it took significantly longer. Source

21. Claim: 200,000 tons of steel shattered into sections no longer than a couple feet long.

Truth: Sections of the World Trade Center, often hundreds of feet long survived. Source

22. Claim: Kevin Ryan from Underwriters Laboratories, the company that certified the steel that was used in the World Trade Center, stated the steel should not have melted at the temperatures they were exposed to.

Truth: Kevin Ryan worked in the water testing department, nobody claimed the steel melted, and UL did not certify it in the first place (OK, that is technically 3 lies). Source
23. Claim: Numerous firefighters and other witnesses heard explosions in the world trade center indicating the use of demolitions.

Truth: A jet liner with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel crashed into each of the towers at 500 mph. It would be suspicious if they didn’t hear subsequent explosions. Source

24. Claim: Ben Fountain, a financial analyst who worked in the World Trade Center, told People Magazine that in the weeks before 9-11, there were a number of unannounced and unusual drills where sections of both the Twin Towers and building 7 were evacuated for 'security reasons'.

Truth: Mr. Fountain only stated that his tower was evacuated. He didn’t say it in the context that the film presents, that this somehow gave them the opportunity to plant explosives, but to say that there were previous threats against the towers. Other sources used by the conspiracy movement contradict this. Source and here

25. Claim: Bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the World Trade Center only days before the attack.

Truth: Security was actually increased for a couple of weeks; this “removal” was just security returning to normal. Source

26. Claim: Seismic records prove that explosives were used in the World Trade Center

Truth: The Columbia University seismic center specifically states that their records do not support such a conclusion. Source

27. Mayor Giuliani shipped off the remains of the World Trade Center before anyone could look at it.

Truth: FEMA, the FBI, the NTSB and the NIST all conducted in depth investigations, including removal and testing of debris. An extensive report is available at http://www.nist.gov/

28. Claim: Not even FEMA was allowed into Ground Zero.

Truth: False, they were involved in the investigation and even produced the first report. Source

29. Claim: At the United 93 crash site “there was nothing. Nothing that you can distinguish that a plane had crashed there. “

Truth: Extensive debris including engines, personal effects, body parts and the black boxes were found at the crash site. Pictures of many of these items were introduced into evidence as the Zacarias Moussaoui trial. Source

30. Claim: Wally Miller, a Somerset County coroner stated that there were no bodies found at the crash site of United 93

Truth: There were no “whole” bodies, but over 1500 body parts were found, and most of the passengers were identified through the use of DNA. Mr. Miller later reported his findings on this. Source

31. Claim: United Flight 93 landed at Cleveland Airport

Truth: This was a false report, it was immediately corrected by the AP, but it still lives on in Internet legend.

32. Claim: The last 3 minutes of the United 93 cockpit recorder are unaccounted for.

Truth: This was based upon initial incorrect reports of the crash time. Further analysis (see Page 48 of PDF) indicated the recorder included everything.

33. Claim: The cell phone calls from the hijacked planes could not have taken place due to the technological impossibility of placing calls from a high altitude.

Truth: Most of the calls were from Airfones, which quite obviously work fine in the air. The few cell phone calls which were made could have easily been made due to the fact that the hijackers reduced altitude to steer their planes into their targets.

34. Claim: Nine hijackers turned up alive after 9/11

Truth: All of these claims turned up immediately after 9/11. A few were just people with the same name, the rest have been unverified. To date, none of the 19 hijackers has been seen in public.

35. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is lefthanded, and the man in the tape uses his right hand to write.

Truth: Aside from the fact that many left handers are ambidextrous, in Muslim culture the left hand is considered “unclean”. Osama, being a strict Muslim would most likely not prefer to use his left hand.

36. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by Islamic law.

Truth: Islamic law only forbids men from wearing gold. There is no way of telling what metal the ring is made out of, and in fact he is seen wearing the same ring in other tapes.

37. Claim: $160 billion in gold is missing from the World Trade Center.

Truth: Despite the fact that this would be over half the world’s gold reserves, and be nearly impossible to move secretly, this has never been reported by any reputable news source.

38. Claim: WTC owner Larry Silverstein profited off of a massive insurance settlement from the attacks.

Truth: Silverstein only owned WTC7, he merely held the lease for the twin towers. While purchasing the lease he originallly wanted a smaller insurance policy, but was required to increase it as part of the deal. What money he did get, he used to rebuild. It has never been shown that he profited off of the attacks.

39. Claim: The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) called for a "New Pearl Harbor" which resulted in 9/11 helping them acheive their goals.

Truth: PNAC did not call for anything, they merely stated the timetable for their transformation would be slower. The transformation dealt with technological modification of the military, and has had absolutely nothing to do with the results of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq.

40. Claim: A reporter at the Pentagon reported there was no trace of flight 77.

Truth: The reporter, Jamie McIntyre, was responding to a question regarding whether the plane crashed outside of the Pentagon. In the rest of his news reports he talks extensively about the crash, including handling pieces of the airplane himself.

41. Claim: A United Airlines employee reported seeing the tail number of United 93 on another flight in April 2003.

Truth: FAA records show that this was nothing more than him writing down the number of this flight incorrectly. There is no record of this airplane showing up anywhere since September 11, 2001

These people supposedly "know" the "truth" and have all this evidence, but are too stupid to check on the speaker they were going to have at their 911 Accountability Conference who was Eric D. Williams, a known (for quite some time) big Holocaust denier.  They can't even get information on the people speaking at their conference, yet we're to believe they have all the research completed that shows 9/11 was all a setup of some sort, with what would have to be hundreds of thousands involved in the planning and action, yet NO ONE has leaked anything?  Give me a break.  These people are nothing more than pure asshattery in action.

"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"

 

 

 

Thanks sua --so sad that yo

Thanks sua --so sad that you have to even bother to squash an evil twat like him.

It's not so much that's he's a liar and a fool. I truly think he is evil. He is engaged in an evil enterprize, like holocaust deniers, to shift blame from the perpetrators of a vile act, to the victims of that act.

One of his biggest lies is of course...

Truth: Over a hundred documented witnesses, and many more unrecorded, saw in broad daylight a large commercial jetliner crash into the Pentagon. Many even specifically identified the airline. To this day, not a single person has come forward claiming to have seen a cruise missile.

In effect he calls people like Debra Burlingame liars. He is disgusting. And he'll get his one day.


A "progressive" = a liberal = a socialist = a commie in drag =
laughably wrong about life, the universe and everything.

You're Welcome Jack

My pleasure. What bothers me more than anything is that these chuckleheads actually believe you and I are dumb enough to swallow this tripe whole, eventhough their fantasy land has been nuked over and over again. In typical lib/TFH fashion, if they say it (even if it's disproven) it has to be true, but if it comes from anywhere else, well then there must be some neo-con right wing religeous faction that is the perpetrators. Bottom line is that they are not bright enough nor do they want to believe there are bad people in the world who are trying to destroy us and instead of seeing that it is plain as day, well, let's blame our government and the American people, because you know afterall, there were no bad people or terroists in the world so it must be our fault. I give a hearty SCREW YOU to all of them and their ilk.

"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"

Dang!  Nice bit of work ther

Dang!  Nice bit of work there SUA!! You definitely qualify for a guest host appearance on MythBusters.

 When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

These crackpots make my day.

These crackpots make my day.  If it weren't for the internet, you'd find them on the corners of major cities mumbling to themselves and trying to convince you of an impending alien attack from the planet Zortron.  It all boils down to anti-America spew.  I get tired of this asshat and his buddy libertyanddeath (who spews just to hock books) using NB's to post things that aren't even news worthy in the National Enquier.  Hell, I'd be more apt to believe what they print instead of this junk.  These are basically people who except for this would go basically unnoticed in life.

"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"

Sua, one thing to add

Sua, the only thing I'd add is that the sheer number of people required to pull this kind of plot would make it impossible to keep it a secret.

(Despite the same last name, 75, Sua and I are not related.)

And this is the one thing the

And this is the one thing they are asked about time and time again, of course with no viable answer other than some obscure reference to the evil monkey hiding in Roves closet.  CT'ers and TFH's, gotta love 'em cause their just so damn goofy.

"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"

Sua, it goes far beyond crackpot. It is deliberate disinformati

Sua, it goes far beyond crackpot.  It is deliberate disinformation.

In the Middle East, nothing is believed more than a 'conspiracy' that involves the evil US; evil Israel; evil Capitalistic Corporations or the current evil George Bush.

This stuff is clearly an attempt by our enemies to mislead, confuse and obfuscate some people's minds with junk that even a cartoon network show couldn't pull off as a plot.

I believe it was no coincidence that a Holocaust Denier was the keynote speaker.  It fits with the power behind this throne.

We need to recognize this type of thing and speak out against it.  We also need to rethink the wisdom of allowing this stuff on the NB site.

This is my opinion.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says:  "I want to take those profits."

ACA,right on about the Holoca

ACA,right on about the Holocaust denier.There is a definite anti-semitic/anti-Israel tone amongst these "truth" purveyors.