Liberals love to claim they are world citizens but know remarkably little about International Law.
1. The U.S Code applies only in the United States, that is the Special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States. (1) A person committing a crime in a another country is subject to the criminal law of that country. Even if that act is against a U.S citizen. Even if the act is commited in time of war.
2. No single person can be tried and/or convicted under an International Treaty. International Treaties are only between high contracting parties, that is Governments. Only high contracting parties can claim grievance in a dispute, not individuals. Further international treaties have no enforcement bodies in general and there are no penalties. The usual recourse for high contracting parties are sanctions and war.
3. The Tokyo trials were under their own special constitution.
MacArthur's Special Proclamation said that he established an international military tribunal for the Far East, approved its constitution, jurisdiction, and functions as set out in its charter, and indicated that these steps were without prejudice to any other proceedings that might be established in Japan or within the domains of the countries with which Japan had been at war. (2)
4. Waterboarding was a classified procedure that was only recently declassified. Does every liberal have access to top secret documents?
5. The waterboarding procedure as listed in the OLC memos is not the same as water torture or other listed procedures in war crime trials. We were only allowed to perform the procedures listed in the OLC memos.
Sincerely,
A Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Vet, Another Excellent Exposure of Leftist Propaganda
May 4, 2009 - 13:26 ET by rexdraconimAnother nice job, and I thank you.
I appreciate your work on this because "torture" and "waterboarding" are such Leftist trigger words that it is nice to have a place to direct the inevitable to.
"You can have Peace or you can have Freedom; just don't count on having both at the same time." - R.A.H
"I'll take the harsh reality of liberty over the illusion of security...every time!" -me
I think it was an
May 14, 2009 - 22:32 ET by LumenNationI think it was an international court of law of some sort wasn't it? Nonetheless, we participated in and/or led the prosecution, and I believe at least one Japanese soldier was executed as a result. So your headline seems a bit disingenuous.
I will play your silly troll game.
May 14, 2009 - 23:09 ET by JWFI think and I believe are not the proper way to refute evidence.
Nor is asking me to refute my own statements by answering your wasn't it question.
God, you are rock stupid and I have wasted enough time already.
You got something to prove me wrong, post it and link it to a source you rock stupid idiot of a tiny tiny tiny little man.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Wow, are all republicans as
May 14, 2009 - 23:15 ET by LumenNationWow, are all republicans as rude as you? I thought my point was made pretty politely.
Calling me a liar nicely is still calling me a liar.
May 14, 2009 - 23:50 ET by JWFYou got something that proves me wrong, back it up. Otherwise you are just flying a troll flag.
Again, I think and I believe prove nothing. Nor does asking the wasn't it question.
You called me a liar. Back it up.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I didn't say you were a
May 15, 2009 - 06:52 ET by LumenNationI didn't say you were a liar, I said you were being disingenuous. There's a difference. Technically, everything you posted is correct. But it does not reflect the truth. True, Japanese were not tried in an American court for torture. But they were tried -- by Americans, and others in the international community -- in a court of law.
Yes. By Americans and others. Now why is that?
May 15, 2009 - 07:19 ET by JWFHmmm. They could have easily been tried for war crimes by us under our constitution. Now why were they tried under a special constitution that was drawn up solely for the purpose of trying them for war crimes?
And you better put a thinking cap on that tiny little head junior. I said - The U.S. tried Japanese for waterboading. TRUTH - No we did not. You have me quoting myself now. The United States Government did not try any Japanese for war crimes. I did not say Americans or some Americans. So point out specifically, precisely how my statement is disengenuous. You know very well exactly what people are referring to when the say U.S.
I don't know which troll you are coming back as, but you sure found me fast enough again dint, ya?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Found you? I didn't even
May 15, 2009 - 08:08 ET by LumenNationFound you? I didn't even notice you were lost.
Answer the questions put to you little man.
May 15, 2009 - 08:17 ET by JWFQuit making me quote myself.
Now why were they tried under a special constitution that was drawn up solely for the purpose of trying them for war crimes?
So point out specifically, precisely how my statement is disengenuous. You know very well exactly what people are referring to when they say U.S.
When you learn some manners
May 15, 2009 - 08:24 ET by LumenNationWhen you learn some manners
Answer the question
May 15, 2009 - 08:30 ET by general companyPLEASE, with sugar on top.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
You don't have to ask "with
May 15, 2009 - 09:16 ET by LumenNationYou don't have to ask "with sugar on top", but when someone asks by insulting me, they're just not going to get an answer.
And actually, I'm not even sure what his question is.
Probably because you are an obvious troll.
May 16, 2009 - 00:36 ET by pahuberAnd and ass.... go figure.
Now who is the one without manners?
May 15, 2009 - 08:34 ET by JWFYou came to this forum and called me a liar. You fired the first shot. And you have yet to back it up through some 6 posts later.
LumenNation: I think it was some sort wasn't it? Nonetheless, we and/or I believe at least one was a result. So your headline seems a bit disingenuous.
I did no such thing. I
May 15, 2009 - 09:14 ET by LumenNationI did no such thing. I said "your headline seems a bit disingenuous"
You're either extremely paranoid, or scruffing for a fight, or both. Either way, look somewhere else.
The lying troll says I am disenguous.
May 15, 2009 - 10:37 ET by JWFHe reads the word TRUTH in big block letters and seems to think I am -
: lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness :
But he thinks having a few americans on an INTERNATIONAL Tribunal makes it a wholly owned subsidiary of the United States of God Loving America.
Just like the top Sumo Wrestler is an American so Sumo is now America's national sport.
Just like an the CEO of Sony is now an American so Sony is an American company.
Just like there is an American Ambassador sitting at the United Nations so the United Nations is run by the United States.
And he says the Japanese war criminals were tried in a court. Like no other country on the planet has courts or courtrooms. It is purely an American invention.
Now tell me who is being disenguous? And who has not backed up one single word he has written. Someone tell me now who is disenguous on this forum.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
§ JWF...Yeah....You are...
May 15, 2009 - 10:44 ET by TheSterTHINK SIMPLE.
NOTE:
Knight 1: We are now no longer the Knights who say Ni.
Knight 2: NI!
Other Knights: Shh...
Knight 1: We are now the Knights who say... "Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG!
Zoom-Boing! Z'nourrwringmm!"
Ster.
Ok, maybe you're not
May 15, 2009 - 10:51 ET by LumenNationOk, maybe you're not disingenuous -- you tell me.
Here's why I think you are. I think with your headline you're trying to create the impression that the Japanese were not prosecuted for waterboarding Americans, and that America saw nothing wrong with waterboarding and did not consider it a war crime until we libs started whining about it.
The fact is we did consider it a war crime, we did prosecute them for it, and we hanged at least one of them for it. The fact that they were not tried in an American court under the American system is beside the point.
But you make that your main point, and then use the statement to imply that waterboarding is not a war crime. That is simply disingenuous. And I'm trying to be polite there.
§ Lumen??? StrawMan Argment??
May 15, 2009 - 11:03 ET by TheSterSpelling?
I'm being Polite here....
Either you believe WE did the RIGHT thing....
....or NOT.....
What is your VERDICT???
Ster.
It is all lies.
May 15, 2009 - 11:08 ET by JWFSource your statements. I have provided sources for every fact I give here.
LIE - think with your headline you're trying to create the impression that the Japanese were not prosecuted for waterboarding Americans - state your source
LIE - The fact is we did consider it a war crime - state your source
LIE - we did prosecute them for it - state your source.
LIE - we hanged at least one of them for it - state your source
LIE - The fact that they were not tried in an American court under the American system is beside the point - It is the point. Why do you keep saying WE? I provided a source and a refutation of this already >>>> http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-u-s-tried-japanese-waterboading-truth-no-we-did-not-29992#comment-933206
LIE - then use the statement to imply that waterboarding is not a war crime. - I DID NOT IMPLY. I SAID IT STRAIGHT OUT LIAR. Waterboarding is not a war crime nor is it torture.
And I'm trying to be polite there - You are lying and failing to back up a single statement while I have sourced everything.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
§ JWF...LOL...NICE!!!!
May 15, 2009 - 11:10 ET by TheSterKnight: We are the Knights who say... NI!
Ster.
Reason #187
May 15, 2009 - 11:32 ET by general companyWhy it does not pay to be polite to trolls.
Hey Ster, one of my kids uses that MP line for her ring tone.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Well, let's styart from the
May 15, 2009 - 12:39 ET by LumenNationWell, let's styart from the end and work backwards.
LIE - we hanged at least one of them for it - state your source
Ok, here's one:
http://www.cbsnews.c...
Here's another:
http://www.politifac...
From the article:
After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute
Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of
techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as
'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the
charging documents. It simulates drowning. A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges
were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in
labor camps."
LIE - we did prosecute them for it - state your source.
Same source.
LIE - The fact is we did consider it a war crime - state your source
Same source -- If we didn't consider it a war crime, then why did we prosecute for it?
LIE - think with your headline you're trying to create the
impression that the Japanese were not prosecuted for waterboarding
Americans - state your source
That one was clearly stated as my opinion. No sources required for opinions, last I heard.
He wasnt hung
May 15, 2009 - 14:47 ET by general companyfor waterboarding, it was for the murders.
Your links are weak.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
He was hanged for his
May 15, 2009 - 15:01 ET by LumenNationHe was hanged for his offenses, one of which was waterboarding. You can parse the language any way you like -- and I'm sure you will -- but the U.S. prosecuted Japanese for waterboarding. Period.
LN, he spit on the sidewalk, stuck some gum on a movie chair
May 15, 2009 - 15:21 ET by upcountrywaterYea that makes sense.. he died for all these things, and many more.
A squirt gun uses a stream of WATER
A water jet cutter uses a stream of WATER
Yea that makes then equal. One is 25 psi, another is 90,000 psi.
It's water and there is a board somewhere...
Reagan VS 0bama
Joke all you want, you're
May 15, 2009 - 15:51 ET by LumenNationJoke all you want, you're just avoiding admitting that you are wrong. He was convicted of waterboarding American soldiers, among other things. And we executed him for it.
lumen
May 15, 2009 - 16:04 ET by botghe was convicted of???
let's have the full list of exactly what he was convicted of. My god man you'd say Jeffrey Dahmer was convicted of speeding. Plus you must also show that the procedures have more in common than just a name, just because FORD takes 1st place at a NASCAR event doesn't mean your 76 Pinto is a race car.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
He was convicted of, among
May 15, 2009 - 16:12 ET by LumenNationHe was convicted of, among other things, waterboarding American prisoners.
And your NASCAR metaphor is ludicrous.
failure to understand on your part
May 15, 2009 - 16:21 ET by botgdoes not undermine my arguement, but it does explain how you can be so dense.
Weren't you shown to be enough of a an ijit under your other names here in the past?
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Ah, well.. you say I am
May 15, 2009 - 16:31 ET by LumenNationAh, well.. you say I am wrong, so therefore I am proven wrong! What a powerful argument!
/s
no lumen
May 15, 2009 - 16:34 ET by botgi said you are an ijit
now you're wrong
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Ummm.. well, than I say
May 15, 2009 - 20:23 ET by LumenNationUmmm.. well, than I say you're an arsehole. Are we even now?
not until i've been banned
May 15, 2009 - 20:39 ET by botglike you have, how many times now?
i said you're stupid because:
1. you can't come up with the list of convictions of which "waterboarding" was only a minor add-on
2. you haven't even shown that the procedure used is the same as what has been called "waterboarding" currently
3. you have failed to even grasp what your failings are
you're shoveling bs failed
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
1. you can't come up with
May 15, 2009 - 21:19 ET by LumenNation1. you can't come up with the list of convictions of which "waterboarding" was only a minor add-on
Don't have to. No matter where it fell in the legal heirarchy, the question here is whether or not it was considered a crime. The fact that it was one of the charges at all PROVES it was considered a crime.
2. you haven't even shown that the procedure used is the same as what has been called "waterboarding" currently
Don't have to. Both are called "waterboarding". Both are described as pouring water into a person's mouth and nose until he feels he's drowning. If you contend that they're different, then it is up to YOU to provide some evidence to prove your point.
3. you have failed to even grasp what your failings are
Hmmm... maybe, but I have a pretty firm grasp of yours. Feel me squeezing?
making claims
May 15, 2009 - 21:47 ET by botgand you've yet to link to where any of this is documented let me guess ------ don't have to
so you have yet to show that it's even the same thing except by your unsubstantiated assertion, you've yet to show that it's anything more than an 'add-on' minor charge, you continue in denial, and haven't even owned up to how many times you've been banned
pretty much means you are operating under false pretenses here and thus should be considered wrong until proven correct.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
I have provided references,
May 15, 2009 - 22:41 ET by LumenNationI have provided references, read back through the thread. Good lord, don't be so lazy.
"Owned up to how many times I've been banned?" From what, Newsbusters? I haven't been banned yet. Maybe I will be, but so far, so good...
got
May 15, 2009 - 22:56 ET by botglink??
and not to your comment
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Here, you lazy
May 15, 2009 - 22:44 ET by LumenNationHere, you lazy ass:
http://newsbusters.o...
Bruce
May 15, 2009 - 22:55 ET by RESTLESS 1I admire the stamina you exhibit in dueling with the retread here, but you won't get anywhere. This guy can't wrap his mind around the difference between forced ingestion of water until cells rupture, or the forcing of water into the mouth and nose to simulating drowning for 20-40 seconds.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
R-1
May 15, 2009 - 23:01 ET by botgyou of course are quite right but sometimes its fun to watch them post how stooopid they are over and over and over again
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Actually I can, but you
May 15, 2009 - 23:04 ET by LumenNationActually I can, but you haven't shown me anything but your opinion that we did one and the Japanese did the other.
Sources or STFU
Why don't you try actually responding to me for once troll.
May 15, 2009 - 23:09 ET by JWFI now have 3 unresponded comments at the bottom here. All in response to your silly repeated lies.
Just because you and Sen. McCain and other trolls repeat lies over and over does not magically turn them into the truth.
because my life does not
May 15, 2009 - 23:15 ET by LumenNationbecause my life does not revolve around responding to blathering idiots, except to kick their blathering asses... which in your case I have already done.
That is why your on JWF's thread?
May 15, 2009 - 23:45 ET by general companybecause my life does not revolve around responding to blathering idiots,
Your right, your life revolves around being a blathering idiot.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Hey, I made one mild comment
May 16, 2009 - 14:08 ET by LumenNationHey, I made one mild comment that said basically "I think you might be wrong about that" and the guy comes after me with all gun's a' blazin'. That's why I'm still on "his" thread.
Funny liberal
May 16, 2009 - 14:51 ET by general companyJWF tells you in his post that he will defend the the policy, did you not beleive him. Fact is he defended it, and now your suprised?
You really should of moved on some time ago, they already have your lunch, you going to work on dinner now?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Here's one. "Twenty-one
May 15, 2009 - 23:40 ET by RESTLESS 1Here's one.
"Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese
officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of
waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a
stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head
near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face,
leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk."
And here :
"There are two forms of water torture.
In
the first, the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth
placed over his nose and mouth. Waters was then poured on the cloth.
Interrogation proceeded and the victim was beaten if he did not reply.
As he opened his mouth to breathe or answer questions, water went down
his throat until he could hold no more. Sometimes he was then beaten
over his distended stomach, sometimes a Japanese jumped or sometimes
pressed it with his foot.
In the second,
The victim was tied
lengthways on a ladder, face upwards with a rung of the ladder across
his throat and his head below the ladder. In this position he was slid
head first into to a tub of water and kept there until almost drowned.
After being revived, interrogation continued and he would be
re-immersed."
Now link or slink.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
"Link" to what? I said
May 16, 2009 - 14:15 ET by LumenNation"Link" to what? I said you'd provided no evidence that "we did one and the Japanese did the other". You link to a simple description of what the Japanese did. And the description is exactly what we did to our prisoners. Not sure what the "another form" refers to since this the exact same thing.
So... you lose.
whoa lumen
May 16, 2009 - 14:33 ET by botgvictim was beaten, victim was beaten, distended stomach, ladder rung, etc.
yeah not exactly the same there proffesser, try again, plus you are the one asserting that we did just what the Japanese did and the Japanese were executed for doing so, it's your burden of proof here poindexter. But to top it all you get proven wrong but are too dense to understand even that.
--sigh-- you're just not as fun as we hoped.
** botg leaves thread looking for at least one troll with enough wit to be a halfwit since lumen can't get quite that high**
--sigh--
The beating would
May 16, 2009 - 15:41 ET by LumenNationThe beating would constitute an entire set of charges unto itself. I was discussing just the waterboarding. And what they did is the same as what we did.
In fact, the "executed" part was just an added bonus to my argument. The only thing I had to prove, to show JWF as the liar he is, is that we tried Japanese for waterboarding Americans.
I did that. JWF is proven a liar.
Who's next...?
Did you really?
May 16, 2009 - 15:49 ET by general companyShow me the charges they were convicted of. Hint, they are within this thread.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
As you have seen, ONE of the
May 16, 2009 - 17:23 ET by LumenNationAs you have seen, ONE of the charges was waterboarding. The rest are not relevant to this discusssion.
Humor me
May 16, 2009 - 18:44 ET by general companyGo find it, show me were it say's waterboarding. Maybe I missed it?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Need some help LM
May 17, 2009 - 10:06 ET by general companyHere you go, the word waterboard is not listed in the indictment or the list of convictions.
, to show JWF as the liar he is, is that we tried Japanese for waterboarding Americans.
I did that. JWF is proven a liar.
Where did you prove this? I dont see it
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Who's next? I'm next!
May 17, 2009 - 11:16 ET by CobraMan"And what they did is the same as what we did."
Your wrong, the 'waterboarding" perform by the Japanese consisted of actually immersing the victims head. You said so yourself. Can't you see the difference between what the CIA did and what the Japanese did? If not, let me enlighten you:
In the CIA waterboarding, the victim was placed on their back and water poured over their face. In the Japanese water torture, many victims drowned do to the fact that their entire head was held underwater, upside down.
In the CIA "waterboarding", no one drowned or could even face the possibility of drowning as very little, if any, water could actually enter the victims lungs and kill them when water is slowly poured over their lips and face (have you ever almost drowned in the shower? No? I didn't think so!). Many of the Japanese victims DROWNED! Not a single CIA "victim" drowned.
You see, there's a BIG difference between having water poured over your face and having your entire head held under water. But you can't accept that, can you? No, of course not. According to YOU, American's today are just as bad as the Japanese torturers during WWII. This is only because you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Second set of what?
May 17, 2009 - 11:28 ET by CobraMan"The beating would constitute an entire set of charges unto itself."
Are you insane, or just ignorant? It's all a part of the same torture method, and it would all be included is a single charge!! How can you claim that different methods used in a single act of torture would be considered difference charges of the same offense? That's like stating that a prisoner of Saddam faced DIFFERENT offenses when they were strapped to a chair, beaten repeatedly, and had wires connected to their genitals and current applied. But, guess what, that all a SINGE act of torture! If this happened to YOU, just once, the perp would be charged with a SINGLE crime of torture, not multiple crimes! So, tell me again how this would be considered SEPARATE charges?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Okay retread
May 16, 2009 - 00:05 ET by RESTLESS 1You are now dismissed.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I gave you the link to the charges
May 15, 2009 - 18:51 ET by general companyWas water boarding the worst offence? Second worst, third, forth?
So where does water boarding fall in the cruel world of making folk squeal and die?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Tell me how you think that
May 15, 2009 - 20:22 ET by LumenNationTell me how you think that matters.
He was prosecuted and executed for his crimes. One of them was waterboarding. I'm betting that, at no point, as they were slipping the noose around his neck, did anyone say "Oh, by the way...this has nothing to do with your waterboarding conviction. We're just doing this because of the OTHER stuff you did."
just like
May 15, 2009 - 20:26 ET by botgJeffrey Dahmers speeding conviction
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Well that pretty much seals it then
May 15, 2009 - 20:45 ET by general companyYou obviously respect murderers more then innocents? Pretty clear to me,,,, see ya around.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
LOL And where did THAT
May 15, 2009 - 21:21 ET by LumenNationLOL And where did THAT nonsequitor come from?
Ok, I'll play -- You obviously respect liars more then honest people? Pretty clear to me,,,, see ya around.
Nope
May 15, 2009 - 23:48 ET by general companyYou obviously respect liars more then honest people?
What honest people would you be talking about?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
You earn no prize you fool.
May 16, 2009 - 00:40 ET by pahuber"He was hanged for his offenses, one of which was waterboarding."
Name all the other offenses for which he was hanged. You won't oh the shame you small little child.
I have it on good authority....
July 17, 2009 - 20:14 ET by Tailgunner...that one of these Japanese war criminals crossed a street against the 'Don't Walk' (or whatever the Tagalog equivalent is) sign during the Bataan Death March.
This war criminal was subsequently hanged for his crimes.
Therefore, according to this loser's 'reasoning', jaywalking is a capital offense.
Don't bet that this moron will wake up to the absurdity of his argument.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
I think it's 'disingenuous' to compare what the Japanese did...
July 12, 2009 - 17:15 ET by Tailgunner...to the carefully controlled temporary psychological distress carried out by US interrogators.
The Japanese' only motive was in inflicting, painful, horrible tortures intended to bring about a horrible death.
This is like the insanity of comparing our 'slapping' of terror suspects to the beheadings they routinely carry out.
Oh...Liberals do that, don't they?
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
I'm LOTS ruder than other Republicans.
July 12, 2009 - 17:00 ET by TailgunnerYou're an arrogant, brainless liberal punk and a known liar.
And if you are Williams411 your career as a troll here on NB is DOA.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
How do you not get this.
May 15, 2009 - 08:11 ET by RESTLESS 1The water torture conducted by the Japanese is not the same as water boarding as practiced by the U.S. It's pretty simple. How can you not understand that???
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
what is your contention
May 15, 2009 - 08:17 ET by LumenNationwhat is your contention based on?
You have a short memory in that tiny little brain?
May 15, 2009 - 08:26 ET by JWFBased on this -
I think it was an international court of law of some sort wasn't it? Nonetheless, we participated in and/or led the prosecution, and I believe at least one Japanese soldier was executed as a result. So your headline seems a bit disingenuous.
He is contending you read my post, completely ignored what I said, and then posted crap on a biscuit warmed up by the microwave that had a I think...I believe label slapped on it. Idiot.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Here's on source
May 15, 2009 - 10:19 ET by RESTLESS 1You liberals love.
"In this form of water torture, water is forced down the throat and into the stomach. This happens repeatedly until osmosis causes the cells to explode[citation needed]. It was used as a legal torture and execution method by the courts in France in the 17th and 18th century, was employed against Americans and Chinese during World War II by the Japanese, and was also used against Filipinos by American Forces during the Philippine-American War. The Human Rights Watch organization reports that in the 2000s, security forces in Uganda sometimes forced a detainee to lie face up under an open water spigot."[1]
Compared to:
"Waterboarding refers to a technique involving water poured over the face or head of the subject, in order to evoke the instinctive fear of drowning. Often a wet cloth is placed in the subjects mouth,giving them the impression that they are drowning."
Let's see, ruptured cells vs. simulated drowning. Nope, not the same thing.
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
There is no difference in
May 15, 2009 - 10:31 ET by LumenNationThere is no difference in those two descriptions except that the first one goes into what happens on the cellular level after you force water down someone's throat and nose. It's the same thing: You strap the guy down, tilt him back and pour water into his nose and mouth until he gags and chokes.
Tell me -- where does your second definition come from? Is that from Wikipedia too?
Now who is ingenuous?
May 15, 2009 - 10:36 ET by RESTLESS 1Pouring water on a cloth, for 40 seconds max. according to the OCL memos, is not the same as forced ingestion, often leading to death. Who has been killed from waterboarding during the Bush administration?
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
No one has died from
May 15, 2009 - 12:02 ET by LumenNationNo one has died from waterboarding that I know, but over 100 have died from mistreatment.
And just because no one died does not mean it's not torture. Rip a guy's tongue out with pliers and he won't die.
"but over 100 have died
May 15, 2009 - 12:07 ET by QueenMum"but over 100 have died from mistreatment."
A vague statement. Who? What? Where? Why?
GO CAVS!!!!!
Manadel al-Jamadi, Nov 4,
May 15, 2009 - 12:59 ET by LumenNationManadel al-Jamadi, Nov 4, 2003, Abu Ghraib: He's the one whose iced-down corpse you may have seen in photos.
"Dilawar", December 2002, Bagram Air Base: falsely accused taxi driver who officials later admitted was innocent. Beaten so badly that the army coroner testified that the tissue in his legs had "basically been pulpified".
Unidentified prisoner, December 2002, The CIA-run "Salt Pit" prison, Afghanistan: died of exposure after guards left him wet, naked and chained in a freezing cell over night.
Those last two are from "In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths", NY Times, 5/20/05
At this point I'm guessing you don't really want me to list the more than 100, right? At any rate, I won't. But here, from Command’s Responsibility: Detainee Deaths in U.S. Custody in Iraq and Afghanistan,” which you can google:
Among the principle findings of the report, according to the press release:
Fair and balanced
May 15, 2009 - 13:18 ET by QueenMumLumen: Since the NYT is the only source you specifically identify, I offer this for your consideration. It's all in the details.
GO CAVS!!!!!
Actually, the NYT report
May 15, 2009 - 13:23 ET by LumenNationActually, the NYT report cites a government report. It's all referenced.
Lumen: What NYT report? Link
May 15, 2009 - 13:30 ET by QueenMumLumen: What NYT report? Link please.
Edited to add: Your prompt response tells me that you didn't bother to read the information in the linked report I recommended.
GO CAVS!!!!!
And did you bother to read
May 15, 2009 - 13:36 ET by LumenNationAnd did you bother to read MINE? "What NYT report?"...?
"In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths", NY Times, 5/20/05
And yes, I glanced over yours, which basically says that we can't be certain about a lot of the deaths. But many we can be sure about, such as the ones I cited above.
LN, HINT: words, numbers turn RED when they are LINKED
May 15, 2009 - 13:58 ET by upcountrywaterhttp://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1407021/posts
(is this substantiated??)
Reagan VS 0bama
I didn't provide a link,
May 15, 2009 - 14:05 ET by LumenNationI didn't provide a link, and I didn't say I provided a link. I provided a reference.
And yes, it's substantiated. The very next line is:
The story of Mr. Dilawar's brutal death at the Bagram Collection Point
- and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days
earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a nearly 2,000-page confidential
file of the Army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of
which was obtained by The New York Times.
Sources little boy... what lumentation? Newest troll on the
May 16, 2009 - 00:46 ET by pahuberblock. LOL well give 'em credit for being stupid. 2 points maybe.
NYT will earn you a swirly and a wedgie...
When will they learn?
It is a returning troll pahuber.
May 16, 2009 - 00:56 ET by JWFIt is williams411. No point trying to teach him anything. He is just here to stir the cistern.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF, LOL-I thought there was something familiar about this troll
May 16, 2009 - 00:59 ET by R D HelmNice bust. :-)
-Dave
America has gone totally insane
?
May 16, 2009 - 14:17 ET by LumenNation?
I'd like to jump in here...
July 12, 2009 - 16:48 ET by TailgunnerDilawar and Habibullah were two high-value prisoners in Bagram.
Habibullah was a local mullah whose brother was a Taliban leader. He was highly uncooperative and abusive.
Dilawar was caught in a taxi with three other men, communications and electrical gear immediately after a rocket attack on the base. The US later decided his passengers had enough intelligence value to transport them to Gitmo.
Am I justifying their maltreatment? No. But all this took place in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, when troops were poorly trained and official guidance was sketchy.
And you will see the cases of Dilawar and Habibullah presented, as they clearly were in this NYT farce, as a couple of poor slobs who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is obviously not the case. Don't let terror apologists like this clown try to tell you differently.
As cited above, they were both clearly and properly identified as potential terror suspects. Their deaths were not only a crime, they were a blunder...to quote an unknown statesman. We lost valuable intelligence.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
You meen the men murdered by other inmates?
May 17, 2009 - 11:38 ET by CobraManThe article you site gives an account from an INTERPRETER who claims that beatings occurred.. The report of the deaths themselves doesn't come to that conclusion, it comes to the conclusion that those men were murdered by OTHER INMATES! I wonder why you left out this important little detail?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Glossed over your mistake in comprehension
May 15, 2009 - 12:32 ET by RESTLESS 1I see. Oh well, chalk another one up for Restless.
Now, about the "100 have died from mistreatment claim", cites please. No Kos or Du or huff puffy.
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
please see above
May 15, 2009 - 13:00 ET by LumenNationplease see above
Lumen
May 15, 2009 - 13:18 ET by QueenMumPlease see above.
GO CAVS!!!!!
And... please see above! lol
May 15, 2009 - 13:24 ET by LumenNationAnd... please see above! lol
According to the United States of America and me, troll.
May 15, 2009 - 10:41 ET by JWFhttp://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-waterboarding-torture-truth-not-29806
Might as well visit my other troll trap. You trolls love to wander in but you never get out.
Here's my contention
May 17, 2009 - 10:39 ET by CobraManYou want contention? Well, here's mine:
"Japanese perpetrated crimes" via Wikipedia. Read the section that describe the war crimes committed by the Japanese, and tell me if you see ANY mention of waterboarding there, ok? Then, after you fail to find any, come back and apologize to everyone here for LING to us about the alleged convictions for "waterboarding." Are you up to the challenge?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Doesnt seem he is
May 17, 2009 - 10:55 ET by general companyHe has already ignored this Challenge
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Welcome to NewsBusters, troll.
May 16, 2009 - 00:56 ET by R D Helm-Dave
America has gone totally insane
Lumenation trolls think they are smart.
May 15, 2009 - 08:04 ET by JWFThey say I am being disengenuous. They say no no no. I am not calling you a liar. You are just not telling the truth. As though that absolves them.
Somebody show me where in the charges are listed waterboarding. Look at the list of nations in the charges. This was not a U.S. issue. It was an international issue. blumenidiot.
Here are the charges from the IMFTE. (1)
... the promotion and accomplishment of that scheme, these defendants, taking advantage of their power and their official positions and their own personal prestige and influence, intended to and did plan, prepare, initiate, or wage aggressive war against the United States of America, the Republic of China, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Commonwealth of Australia, Canada, the Republic fo France, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, New Zealand, India, the Commonwealth of the Philippines, and other peaceful nations, in violation of international law, as well as in violation of sacred treaty commitments, obligations and assurances; such plan contemplated and carried out the violation of recognized customs and conventions of war by murdering, maiming and ill-treating prisoners of war, civilian internees, and persons on the high seas, denying them adequate food, shelter, clothing, medical care, or other appropriate attention, forcing them to labour under inhumane conditions, and subjecting them to indignities; exploit to Japan's benefit the manpower and economic resources of the vanquished nations, plundering public and private property, wantonly destroying cities, towns and villages beyond any justification of military necessity; perpetrate mass murder, rape, pillage, brigandage, torture, and other barbaric cruelties upon the helpless civilian population of the overrun countries; increase the influence and control of the military and naval groups over Japanese government officials and agencies; psychologically prepare Japanese public opinion for aggressive warfare by establishing so-called Assistance Societies, teaching nationalistic policies of expansion, disseminating war propaganda, and exercising strict control over the press and radio; set up "puppet" governments in conquered countries; conclude military alliances with Germany and Italy to enhance by military might Japan's programme of expansion.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
(1) http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/IMTFE-A6.html
Lumenation lies on a forum that dispels lies.
May 15, 2009 - 07:57 ET by JWFHe says I am being disengenuous. He say no no no. I am not calling you a liar. You are just not telling the truth. As though that absolves him. Then he says i am mean. Big fat meanie.
The International Military Tribunal for the Far East was established based on several documents none of them the U.S Constitution. The only reason we had people on the tribunal was because they fought a war with us. There were also citizens of the Philippines and India. So does that mean the Philippines and India now tried Japanese for war crimes?
The Tribunal was established in virtue of and to implement the Cairo Declaration of the 1st of December 1943, the Declaration of Potsdam of the 26th of July, 1945, the Instrument of Surrender of the 2nd of September, 1945, and the Moscow Conference of the 26th of December 1945.
...
By the Moscow Conference (Annex No. A-3) it was agreed by and between the Governments of the United States of America, Great Britain, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics with the concurrence of China that:
Acting on this authority on the 19th day of January, 1946, General MacArthur, the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, by Special Proclamation established the Tribunal for "the trial of those persons charged individually or as members of organizations or in both capacities with offences which include crimes against peace." (Annex No. A-4) The constitution, jurisdiction, and functions of the Tribunal were by the Proclamation declared to be those set forth in the Charter of the Tribunal approved by the Supreme Commander on the same day. Before the opening of the Trial the Charter was amended in several respects. (A copy of the Charter as amended will be found in Annex No. A-5).
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
(1) http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/IMTFE-1.html
So apparently I've kicked
May 15, 2009 - 22:42 ET by LumenNationSo apparently I've kicked JWFs ass hard enough that he doesn't have the cujones (sp?) to answer my posts. Yay me.
Are you that assinine LN? You know you look like a complete
May 16, 2009 - 00:49 ET by pahuberfool, right? If not then.... you are too stupid to wipe your *ss.
God you are totally stupid.
Maybe so, but in all my
May 16, 2009 - 14:19 ET by LumenNationMaybe so, but in all my stupidity, I proved JWF is a liar.
I disagree with your
July 16, 2009 - 10:34 ET by NL207I disagree with your optimistic assessment of your success against JWF's arguments.
He mopped the floor with you.
Welcome big guy.
July 16, 2009 - 11:38 ET by JWFThe lumenation troll was banned shortly after posting here. He is long gone.
Check out the truther whichwing above. We have a truther that posted a truther video he later claimed is not a truther video and then got angry when we would not discuss the truthy aspects of the so called untruthy truther video.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Yea
July 16, 2009 - 18:48 ET by general companyThats what I said,,,,,,,,about a month ago. : ]
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Lying Trolls always link to the same article.
May 15, 2009 - 22:49 ET by JWFLumenation idiot troll thinks he has something original -
Well, let's styart from the end and work backwards.
LIE - we hanged at least one of them for it - state your source Ok, here's one: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/politics/main3554687.shtml
Yo idiot lying troll: This is a fallacious argument other lying trolls have already tried. Appeal to authority. Just because a senile old man repeats a lie does not turn it into the truth
http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-waterboarding-torture-truth-not-29806#comment-926457
Appeal to authority: John McCain opened his big fat mouth and rewrote the law all by himself.
bubbaster: I refer to John McCain's recent statement
Whichwing: John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
"Just because a senile old
May 15, 2009 - 23:09 ET by LumenNation"Just because a senile old man repeats a lie does not turn it into the truth"
Well first of all, he was YOUR "senile old man". Second, it's a verifiable historical fact. You can refuse to believe the earth revolves around the sun too -- and you probably do -- but that doesn't make it false.
Just admit I kicked your right-wing ass and move on.
argumentum ad infinitum.
May 15, 2009 - 23:36 ET by JWFJust because you repeat something over and over again does not make it the truth.
Oh look the troll linked to the same biased website...
May 15, 2009 - 23:24 ET by JWF...as every other lying troll has.
Lumentation troll:
Well, let's styart from the end and work backwards.
LIE - we hanged at least one of them for it - state your source
Here's another:
http://www.politifac...
Where have we seen this biased website before? hmmmm....
http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-waterboarding-torture-truth-not-29806#comment-924301
And it was refuted there too.
Me:
This is a fallacious argument - Appeal to Authority. Except John McCain appears not to be an authority now does he?
list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," Don't forget the chinese water torture with the drip drip drip. Anyone look out the window lately? Three quarters of the planet is covered in water. So a few people figure in using water with their torture and it is all the same as the technique as outline in the OLC memos? How about that camp gag where we put someone's hand in warm water? Is that waterboarding too?
The OLC memos define exactly the procedure that is allowed to be used. This is not the same procedure that was used in WWII and possibly considered torture then.
I say possibly as any water based interrogation by the Japanese would have been at the bottom of any of the gruesome tortures they engaged in. Plus I read the actual indictments and I read a lot of this "unlawfully killed and murdered many thousands of..." Page after Page after Page after Page until we finally get to the actual torture stuff. I get numbed after about page 24. Maybe you can give it a shot.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/nuremberg/documents/index.php?documentdate=0000-00-00&documentid=18-2&pagenumber=1
In the meantime, I think Japanese wartime atrocities. I go right to Bataan Death March. I actually knew of people that survived that bit of Japanese gruesomeness. And they knew people that did not have to worry about getting a little water poured on them. They were bayoneted for trying to get a drink of water. But that is just me. Mr. military. Sorry for the personal anecdotes.
Restless 1:
Here, let me try to explain this to you. If you look at what the Japanese did in regards to water torture, and compare that to what we did with waterboarding, you will see that, while they both employ water, they are not the same thing.
Did you bother to read the website you referenced troll? Politifact references the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (IMTFE) which I have shown here on this very website was run under it's own constitution, laws, and courts NOT UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, LAW, OR COURTS.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Politifact is a biased source run by a biased newspaper.
May 15, 2009 - 23:30 ET by JWFThey were in the tank for the Democrats.
http://subloviate.blogspot.com/2008/06/politifact-problem.html
http://freepetermathias.blogspot.com/2008/09/hockey-check-on-politifactcom_12.html
http://abbynrml.com/2008/01/13/st-pete-times-politifactcom.aspx
http://pondrings.org/?p=849
http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?t=103285
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF... Please don't think
May 15, 2009 - 23:37 ET by JerJWF...
Please don't think I'm being snarky, because it's a serious question. Is there any fact-finding website which is acceptable to conservatives?
I ask this because I have linked snopes.com and got the same reaction. I have linked factcheck.org and ditto. Now you say politifact is also in the tank for the Dems. Are there any at all you feel are objective?
Jer
I like Uncle Jer. I respect Uncle Jer.
May 15, 2009 - 23:46 ET by JWFI did my own research on this Uncle Jer. They are incorrect on this issue.
They base as their sources interviews that are unavailable. R. John Pritchard. Yuma Totani.
They also base it on this - Columbia Journal of Transnational Law, "Drop by Drop: Forgetting the History of Water Torture in U.S. Courts," May 2007. It is available and I read through it. What does U.S. Court documents have to do with the IMTFE?
I ask myself the same question everytime I am lied to. "If you lied to me on this, what else have you lied to me about?" That is when I find they are biased and linked to the bias claims.
I cannot speak to other websites or Snopes. This is out of the scope of this discussion.
Now my question for Uncle Jer. You gonna get my back on any of this?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF...
May 15, 2009 - 23:52 ET by JerNow my question for Uncle Jer. You gonna get my back on any of this?
To this extent, yes: I read your recent posts chronicling the results of your obvious extensive research on the issue and found it to be quite impressive. Well-reasoned and well-documented. How's that?
Jer
You know what. That is good enough.
May 15, 2009 - 23:57 ET by JWFThe history buff/professor/phd is impressed and can't find something to obviously disagree with.
I'll take it.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Thanks,
May 16, 2009 - 00:14 ET by JerThanks, JWF...
Regrettably, you got a tad carried away with the resume`. B.A. American History Minors: Poli Sci and Philosophy
Jer
Uncle Jer is smart no matter what is on his resume.
May 16, 2009 - 00:27 ET by JWFRecognize the troll yet Uncle Jer?
There is one Jer,
May 15, 2009 - 23:49 ET by RESTLESS 1Newsbusters. :)
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Restless...
May 15, 2009 - 23:54 ET by JerWho would have thunkit. All this time, right under my very nose. :-)
Jer
Not a chance. They only
May 16, 2009 - 14:20 ET by LumenNationNot a chance. They only accept "facts" that come from Rush, NewsBusters, or out of their own butts.
Try these sources
June 18, 2009 - 16:01 ET by UnsaneOr: The Economist, Foreign Policy, Foreign Affairs, National Geographic, international news outlets like BBC and CBC, and quite a few books, like the few hundred I have in my library alone.
And that's just ME. Others around here use far many more sources.
So funny how Leftists like to puff themselves up as the most superior people on earth when they cannot tolerate critical thinking whatsoever.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Let's see...
July 10, 2009 - 07:19 ET by WhichWing"So funny how Leftists like to puff themselves up as the most superior
people on earth when they cannot tolerate critical thinking whatsoever."
I'll prove you to be either a hypocrite or 'Leftist' with one simple video. It's a clip from the BBC, since you mentioned it as a worthy source and all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltP2t9nq9fI
Now, show us your critical thinking skills.
WW They knew the WTC7 was going to fall, It was EVACUATED
July 12, 2009 - 12:37 ET by upcountrywaterA thorough run-out of your LIBERAL logic is evident in this video
Did man land on the moon in 1969?
Reagan VS Liberalism
without a paddle
July 16, 2009 - 07:31 ET by WhichWingIt's great to see that you are another of the many idiots on this site that feels the need to call someone LIBERAL as soon as you see something you don't like.
Watch the video again, they weren't reporting that it was going to fall, they were reporting that it HAD FALLEN.
You are quickly proving yourself to be someone beneath contempt
July 12, 2009 - 16:37 ET by JWFWhat the hell is wrong with you Pumpkinhead?
Now you are a truther? The United States government is behind 9/11? And BBC was in on it too?
Pray tell, how did you wander upon this little stain of a video on humanity?
You are nothing more than a little yellow stain peon of life. A truther now. Holy cow.
Here is BBC's response in care anyone actually cares.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html
Pumpkinhead had his head in the sand crying like a baby all day on 9/11 as cowards are wont to do. The rest of us remember the announcement that firefighters had given up fighting the fire at WTC 7 hours before it fell. It was only a matter of time until it collapsed at that point. So the BBC got a little confused. Maybe. If that video was not completely faked.
Pumpkinhead is a friggin truther now.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Truther?
July 16, 2009 - 07:22 ET by WhichWingI put no theory foward. I suggested nothing. I only posted a link to a video. But look how quick you are to go on the defensive and get back to name calling.
In fact, Pumpkinhead, it is you that is here putting forward theories: So the BBC got a little confused. Maybe. If that video was not completely faked.
Surprising you would suggest that it was faked after posting the BBC's response to the video. Maybe you don't believe their explanation because it's too ridiculous. And I dont' blame you, they quote a YouTube comment as evidence to back up their nonsense! That is what you've posted and then tried to make me out as nuts. Hilarious. You are a funny guy!
Anyway, about the video... Did anyone notice that the building that she was reporting as collapsed was actually in the shot? She could have turned around to confirm or deny the report. So these people are smart enough to predict a building collapse 20 minutes ahead of the fact, but not bright enough to spot it through the window?
So come on JWF, can't you be honest with yourself? There is something very fishy about that video, isn't there?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Whatever, truther.
July 16, 2009 - 07:35 ET by JWFYou did not even bother to go to the website I linked. I watched your truther video in full.
If you had bothered instead of filling your Pumpkinhead with truther bull, you would have read - their original videos were accidentally destroyed. They cannot verify the video.
You want respect Pumpkinhead, you have to deserve it. So far you only deserve the derision of the community here. You are no fencesitter, you are far to the left of most every rational person including the spew at DKos.
It wasn't a 'truther'
July 16, 2009 - 07:54 ET by WhichWingIt wasn't a 'truther' video, it was a news clip from the BBC. Boy, you get your panties all bunched up on this topic, don't you?
I did go to your (stupid) link, and I had seen the link previously. You have to be pretty gullible to go for anything in their explanation:
1. They deny being apart of a conspiracy. No evidence one way or the other, just a denial. Who can question that, right?
2. They claim to try to double check everything and source their reports. But they didn't simply look out the window at the building they were reporting on? Even you can't be that gullible, can you?
3. They insist their reporter can't remember what she said or did minute by minute, and they apparently have no intention of showing her a video of what she said and did minute by minute. We will just have to accept that she can't remember, OK?
4. They couldn't find the tapes. (Pretty outrageous to think they had lost tapes of 9/11 coverage, but oh well.) They couldn't comment on a copy of the video or anything?
5. They quote some guys comment under a YouTube video. Brilliant!
By the way, newer information from BBC says that they have indeed found the original tape; it had apparently been placed under 2002 rather than 2001. Here is a video where I got that info from, near the end. (Hold your breath for their analysis now that they've found the tapes, too.)
So what now, Pumpkinhead? What position have I taken that was leftist or Liberal or whatever? You got nothing.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Whatever, truther.
July 16, 2009 - 08:09 ET by JWFThe whiny truther posts a link to a truther video and now the truther is claiming outrage because we call him a truther.
You're a truther. You will always be a truther.
A guy can bake a 1000 cakes and not be called a baker everytme. A guy can lay tens of thousands of bricks and not be called a bricklayer.
But you post a link to one truther video...
You are an arab apologist and now you are a truther too. Coward.
JWF
July 16, 2009 - 08:14 ET by WhichWingYou are the coward here. You can not answer to the subject at hand. You must resort to name calling. You are very un-American as well. The way you handle yourself here, the way you conduct a discussion. You hate dissent. You don't like free and open speech. You don't seem to like America at all, nor what she stands for. Sad. Very sad.
You should be aware, coward, the opposite of a truther is a liar. Which are you?
Awwwwwwwwww.
July 16, 2009 - 08:19 ET by JWFDid I not stick to the truther's script again? Poor widdow trufer.
At this point I will
July 16, 2009 - 08:26 ET by WhichWingAt this point I will declare victory over you and your feeble mind. This victory is based on how quickly you abandon the topic that you are replying to. See, you chose to reply to the comment and video, but soon found that you couldn't handle the situation. You got in over your head and decided the best tactic was to call someone liberal, an American hater, Arab apologist or truther. You lost. You basically threw in the towel, so I probably didn't need to tell you all this.
Better luck next time.
Scoreboard
July 16, 2009 - 08:30 ET by WhichWingWhichwing: 1
JWF: 0
FreeStinker: 0
When one must declare victory...
July 16, 2009 - 09:02 ET by UnsaneWhen you HAVE to declare victory, you lost the argument.
WhichWhine, you are in fact a truther, and your threads from the past confirm this.
But no, you are not a Leftist but you are in fact a reactionary.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
The arab apologist, truther, and slanderer forgets.
July 16, 2009 - 10:25 ET by JWFIt was in this very thread that another idiot declared victory too - the lumenation/williams411 troll. Why do idiots all sound alike?
I cleaned up his language.
I think they get punchdrunk and lose count of the number of hits to the brainpain they have get to receive what Tuesday I think yay victory!
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Oh boy
July 17, 2009 - 05:59 ET by WhichWingLook it's Unsane! Where is your critical thinking on that video? Come on you hypocritical leftist, let's hear what you have to say.
MAN UP
July 17, 2009 - 19:40 ET by UnsaneMaybe when you stop tossing out labels like candy in a bid to make yourself sound smart...
Oh, and show me where I have been a hypocrite. Instead of lofting accusations you apparently cannot back, MAN UP, little boy.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Here
July 18, 2009 - 06:36 ET by WhichWingRight here, you are being a hypocrite right here in this very thread. Here is your comment to another poster above:
You puff yourself up to be superior, so I present you with a video from a source you mention as being trustworthy, and ask for you to display some critical thinking. You either can't or won't. SO, you are either a Leftist or a hypocrite, right?
Shall we assume that you still don't want to approach the BBC video?
Merely busy
July 18, 2009 - 18:27 ET by UnsaneSO, you are either a Leftist or a hypocrite, right? Or busy.
See, WhichWhine, I am not a druggie. I have something I do 30-40 hours a weekend, where I show up at a building, do some stuff for what is called a shift...at the end of which I get money in my checking account for some reason.
I have two of these weird things...one which comes back at the end of August.
I also have several projects to deal with outside of this.
You are just going to have to have the maturity to deal with the simple fact that the world does not orbit you, and that i am not your little fox terrier. Complicating matters is the Internet connection. Oh, I could load youtube imagery...it is going to take a horribly long time.
These are the limitations I face. When I can get to this all important life-changing video, I will. Deal with it. Oh, and in the meantime, check out The Economist. You will buy a subscription just for their take on your obsessive devotion alone...trust me.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I see
July 18, 2009 - 18:54 ET by WhichWingYou seem to use the excuse of being busy rather selectively. Regardless, I look forward to your thoughts on the video.
WOW!
July 16, 2009 - 08:16 ET by WhichWingWOW! Just had to reply again. Look at JWF, what a sad sack...
Are you denigrating my military service now truther?
July 16, 2009 - 08:23 ET by JWFMain Entry: sad sack Function: noun Date: 1943
: an inept person ; especially : an inept soldier
Why is it every time we think you have scraped the bottom of the barrel, you reach for a shovel?
Awww
July 16, 2009 - 08:29 ET by WhichWingYou are reaching, aren't you? I was referring to you as a person. But I won't argue with you, you pick your own interpretation.
I will pick my own interpretation.
July 16, 2009 - 10:07 ET by JWFSee the date on that definition truther? It is WWII slang created by soldiers to define another soldier.
You knew exactly the terminology that was intended. Or are you now admitting your ineptitude?
Which is it? You deliberately slandered me or you threw out a slang term not understanding its history and common usage?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I used to love the Sad Sack
July 16, 2009 - 10:20 ET by SickofLibsI used to love the Sad Sack comic books.
So now you claim to know
July 17, 2009 - 06:12 ET by WhichWingSo now you claim to know what I know and don't know?
You are pretty touchy aren't you. Actually, I don't believe that to be true, I think it's a tactic you use to change the subject. Much like Unsane calling someone an anti-Semite for using the term 'neo-conservative.' It's kind of a fall back plan you both use. Successful one it appears, as you still haven't answered to any of the oddities in the truther/news video, or those on the truther/BBC blog you shared that was trying to explain them away.
Although I really shouldn't have to answer this, I will go ahead and do so. I was not aware of your military service until you responded with your desire for me to insult it. I was not aware of what you consider to be the common usage of 'sad sack.' And I still leave it up to you to choose which interpretation you'd like to use.
Maybe this isn't some silly tactic by you after all, you may have some sort of complex, JWF.
I am seriously tired of your stupidity.
July 17, 2009 - 08:23 ET by JWFLike a 4 year old, you would try the patience of a saint.
I was not aware of what you consider to be the common usage...
Do you understand the term common usage you moron? Common usage is not up for my awareness or consideration. It is up to the entire community.
common - 1 a: of or relating to a community at large
Oh, nevermind. I am wasting good internet bandwidth on an idiot. You knew the history. I have posted the history. You have posted the history. No apologize for insulting me.
We are not going to talk about your truther video you later claimed is not a truther video and then got angry when we would not discuss the truthy aspects of the so called untruthy truther video.
You wanna discuss your truther video. There are plenty of truther websites out there and you can all go conspiracy wild on each other. We are not going to do it ever.
Pumpkinhead is like a 4 year old. Why is the sky blue? Why? Why? Why? Until you finally yell Because I said so that is why. Now shut up and go away Pumpkinhead you arab apologist truther racist goob.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
My italics were lost in
July 18, 2009 - 06:42 ET by WhichWingMy italics were lost in your quote. I said "what YOU consider to be common usage." I quoted two sources on the subject and neither matched what YOU consider to be common usage.
Speaking of history, my source mentioned a date of 1942, while yours said 1943. And you never did cite your source, what was it?
You should scroll back up there and see that the 'truther' video from the 'BBC' was not addressed to you in the first place. You chose to respond to it, so go cry in a corner if you don't like it now.
"Now shut up and go away Pumpkinhead you arab apologist truther racist goob."
After that nice display, I'd say what ever definition of sad sack you come with will fit just fine.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Is truther Pumpkinhead still typing cuz I quit reading.
July 18, 2009 - 07:36 ET by JWFClose but no cigar.May 8, 2009 - 08:58 ET by JWF
Sir Rex did not call you a leftist. He called McCain a leftist.
McCain is at very least, a RINO with Leftist tendencies, if not outright Leftist outlooks.
The next 2 uses of the word only defined leftists.
My response, both civil and nice, contained this: This is not the same procedure that was used in WWII and possibly considered torture then. A definitive answer. What do I get in response?
I plan to leave to you and Rex the important decisions of who is and isn't a Leftist and what is and isn't torture.
You were clearly blowing us off.
You have had it explained to you already what is not torture and the fact that the Japanese were not convicted of waterboarding. Why come out with that little bomb? And the supreme court jab right after it?
You clearly tossed the first insult there pumpkinhead. Don't act all aggrieved now.
....
May 8, 2009 - 09:01 ET by WhichWing
Dick.
Yeah
July 18, 2009 - 07:45 ET by WhichWingScroll up and see that you were responding to an apology. I actually apologized to you, and that's how you chose to respond to it. I think my final response was fitting.
Enjoy a song with me, buddy.
Is truther Pumpkinhead still typing?
July 18, 2009 - 07:56 ET by JWFhttp://ace.mu.nu/archives/289827.php
'Try the patience of a saint?'
July 19, 2009 - 22:45 ET by TailgunnerThis low-rent piece of garbage would turn Mother Teresa into an abortionist.
Punk.
(Apologies to Joseph Wambaugh.)
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Please do SOME research before dismissing a claim.
July 17, 2009 - 14:13 ET by Tailgunner"Much like Unsane calling someone an anti-Semite for using the term 'neo-conservative.' It's kind of a fall back plan you both use."
Here's something you might want to explore before you wedge your Birkenstock any deeper into your big mouth:
"Some believe that criticism of neoconservatism is couched in antisemitic stereotypes, and that the term has been adopted by the political left to stigmatize support for Israel."
http://en.wikipedia.... (Antisemitism)
There is much more on this topic. Before you reply, read the entire section on Antisemitism, including the quotes and sources.
Search elsewhere if you don't trust Wikipedia. Start with the sources cited in the article.
Then I expect you to return to this forum and demonstrate enough intellectual integrity to correct your statement.
If you do so, you will earn some much-needed respect.
If you continue as usual, ignoring citation after link after source after proof that refutes your every claim, and use your own 'fall back plan' of arrogance, sarcasm and faux moral superiority, then you have no intellectual integrity and no claim to be taken seriously on this forum.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
You didn't even notice did
July 18, 2009 - 07:00 ET by WhichWingYou didn't even notice did you? The beginning of your quote, you did read it before you copy and pasted it, didn't you. Maybe you used extra bold to hide the obvious problem with it. Here, I'll emphasis just two words so that you might better understand the problem:
"Some believe that criticism of neoconservatism is couched in antisemitic stereotypes, and that the term has been adopted by the political left to stigmatize support for Israel."
I'd say that "Some people try to hide behind a charge of anti-Semitism to avoid having to defend obviously flawed policies."
Now, I don't believe you and I have ever discussed any topic, much less any mentioned in your post or mine, so I don't really understand why'd you want to jump on the bandwagon with these fools. Had you followed my conversations with Unsane you'd know that I've probably never even discussed Israel (other than perhaps cutting off aid to them, which I advocate doing for all nations). You'd also know that I've never spoken about Jews in an ill manner, nor have I ever said anything that could be construed as anti-Semitic. (Unless you insist that 'neo-conservative' is anti-Semitic.)
Here is a link posted by another NB'er on this topic, see what you think of it. And, for a little history, I believe this is the first time Unsane tried to level this charge against me. You'll notice that it was all he could do to avoid the topic that I was questioning him about.
So, Tailgunner, if you'd like to jump on board with this nonsense, I can't stop you, but you should be aware of how dishonest it really is.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
You ignore, distract from, and avoid the point. Typical liberal.
July 18, 2009 - 10:24 ET by TailgunnerI'm going to stay on point here...in spite of your every attempt to distract from it.
You tried to marginalize Unsane for his claim that 'neocon' is code for 'antisemitic'.
I presented an entire Wikipedia section, with six different citations and sources, substantiating that claim.
I also asked you to review the entire section, including these citations and sources, and then return and correct your statement.
You failed. Instead you disparaged the messenger and ignored the message. In fact you still continue to deny that 'neoconservative' could be used to imply antisemitism.
My post said nothing about 'discussing Israel'. That is a deliberate, major, dishonest distraction from my point. Remember, I'm staying on point here...even if you refuse to.
My post deals with your failure to do your homework before dismissing Unsane's legitimate statement.
And you reacted exactly as I thought you would. Arrogance, moral pseudo-superiority, continuing ignorance, intellectual dishonesty and red herrings.
In one way, WhichWay, you're a disappointment.
In other ways, however...you're not.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Absurdity, if you and these
July 18, 2009 - 17:58 ET by WhichWingAbsurdity, if you and these other idiots want to hide behind a charge of anti-Semitism in order to avoid discussing policy intelligently, well, that's your choice. Notice that you have to use phrases like 'some believe' and 'could be used' in order to do this.
You think I'm using a dishonest distraction when I point out that I've pretty much never discussed Israel, but I only said that in response to one of your quotes. Here it is, in part: "...adopted by the political left to stigmatize support for Israel." You quote something that makes an implication, and when I offer a rebuttal to that statement you accuse me of being dishonest. So who is really being dishonest here?
I see you chose to ignore the two links I presented to you on the subject, choosing to instead stand by a wikipedia posting. Are you going to maintain that hypocritical stance, or will you go back and read them?
Pretty sad, like I said, you and I have never talked about anything, yet you are willing to imply that I'm anti-Semitic. You really don't see a problem with that?
You seem to be a child molester, based on your comments...
You SOB. Call me a child molester?
July 18, 2009 - 22:25 ET by TailgunnerBut you're still a liar.
NB: I'd like this punk banned.
You cowardly little piece of sh*t. I'll bet you pray that no one ever finds out where you live.
I'll bet you con your mother into starting your little moped every morning in case one of us wires it to a bomb.
You probably get your lunch money stolen at Walmart...by the greeter.
I'll bet you hang out at truck stops...and not for the food, either.
You worthless piece of crap. You talk to people that way and expect to be taken seriously?
I'm done trying to pound sense into your empty head and I hope everyone else ignores you also.
Have a nice life, sh*tbird.
On second thought...don't.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Taste of your own...
July 19, 2009 - 00:49 ET by WhichWingYou don't enjoy that, do you? You jumped into the middle of another discussion, knowing nothing about me, and repeatedly implied that I was an anti-Semite, but you see nothing wrong with that. Good luck with your call for a ban. I'll bet that the moderators will have the sense to read back and see exactly how this developed. Maybe your terroristic threats will earn a ban for yourself:
I wonder how one goes about reporting such threats? Local or federal authorities?
'Terroristic threats'? Ma...its that mean ol' conservative!
July 19, 2009 - 07:21 ET by Tailgunner'I wonder how one goes about reporting such threats? Local or federal authorities?'
You can start by crying to your mommy, you little punk.
Maybe she'll let you out of the basement long enough to call Janet Napolitano and whine to her that conservatives don't act nice when they're called 'child molesters'.
Maybe she can spare a couple of tanks and a company of Americops to come over and spank my bottom.
Unlike liberals, I don't consider 'child molester' a resume' enhancer.
How does 'child molester' fit into a mature debate on the issues?
It doesn't. You just got tired of the same ol' same ol' pattern of calling people racists, sexists and homophobes when your empty head runs out of ideas.
You lost this debate days ago.
And I don't need your approval, your permission, your biography, or the results of your last psychological evaluation, punk, before I 'jump' into a discussion.
You're the one who doesn't 'know' someone by the way you talk. You call me that in person and they'll carry you away from that spot.
And you're a liar, as usual, as well as mentally unstable for claiming I ever said anything about you being 'antisemitic'.
You don't deserve to be taken seriously, pal.
You get nothing but the toe of my boot and the back of my hand.
Go tell that to Napolitano, too.
Punk.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
WW, looses again
July 18, 2009 - 22:33 ET by general companyYou seem to be a child molester, based on your comments...
Accorn uses these tactics as well, we aint falling for it WitchWay.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
My God WhichWing
July 18, 2009 - 22:50 ET by shawn228I don't care if a liberal or Conservative does it, implying anyone or worse saying someone else is a child molester is disgusting. Whats your problem dude?
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocate, labor unions and trial lawyers" ~fitzfong
Is it much worse than their
July 19, 2009 - 00:41 ET by WhichWingIs it much worse than their calling me an anti-Semite? Who gets to decide what level of insult is acceptable? Read back and see how this happened, and see that I was merely giving back the same ridiculous, baseless accusations I had lodged against me. Don't join in their hypocrite parade lest you become one yourself.
Looks like the truther Pumpkinhead pulled out the shovel again.
July 19, 2009 - 22:11 ET by JWFDid Pumpkinhead get punchdrunk again? Did Pumpkinhead think he was talking to me or Unsane?
Pumpkinhead is like a child that closes his eyes and starts windmilling his arms in a fight. Pumpkinhead has been pounded on for months by me. He has been pounded on much longer by Unsane. Like a child, Pumpkinhead figures that if he starts windmilling, he might get in a lucky punch and maybe block a punch here or there.
Hey Pumpkinhead. You hit a bystander in the fight.
Tailgunner came here and made a valid point in a respectable manner. And what was the punchdrunk truther arab apologist antisemite Pumpkinhead's response? He pulls out the big gun.
Big guns have big recoils Pumpkinhead. You already had the derision of Unsane and myself. Now you are getting the derision of the community at large.
Couldn't happen to a more loathed guy.
All right, Pumpkinhead, pray tell, inform us how you came to the child molester conclusion. What was the flow of logic in the massive spacious cranium of yours? Come on, you got the big gun out, clean it out and keep it maintained.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
PS: I decide what is acceptable Pumpkinhead. Is this your first day? Yes, Pumpkinhead. You crossed a line. Here is another example of crossing a line just yesterday by the way.
Their?
July 19, 2009 - 10:30 ET by shawn228I am only talking about Tailgunner, because he is the one you did not just imply but actually said was a child molester, can you show me specifically where TG said you were a anti-semite?
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocate, labor unions and trial lawyers" ~fitzfong
Look back
July 19, 2009 - 00:34 ET by WhichWingHA! Look at them all come out of the woodwork! These people have been baselessly calling me an anti-Semite for days, and not a peep. I give them a taste of their own medicine and look at the reactions! My comment made as much sense as theirs.
Any cliche involving ducks will do
July 19, 2009 - 19:25 ET by UnsaneUm, baselessly, you say?
You use a term that has an anti-Semitic connotation. And you use it as a pejorative. Constantly. (Until called on it, that is...)
And you love a politician that I could argue (as do others) is highly anti-Semitic.
What's that they say about looking, sounding, and walking like a duck?
You should be aware that I do not relish placing that label on anyone whatsoever. But given mounting evidence, what choice do I have?
You owe tailgunner a massive apology.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Turnabout
July 20, 2009 - 00:32 ET by WhichWingI'll use all the same type of reasoning you did: Some believe that child molesters use wikipedia. Trying to change the subject by accusing someone of anti-Semitism is a tactic that could be used by a child molester.
I don't enjoy being labeled an anti-Semite with half-assed logic. You gather in a group to unjustifiably pin a dirty label on me and then all cry foul when an uglier one gets thrown at you. You thought the logical progression went from me using the term 'neo-conservative' to you using 'anti-Semite.' So 'child molester' must be the next in the pattern.
Never never never ever have I made an anti-Semitic remark on this forum or anywhere else. Yet there's three of you making ridiculous arguments for 'neo-con' being code for jew. (Using 6 lines of a couple page wiki entry to make a case, and those six lines using phrases like "some believe" and "could be used.") And in numerous threads, like a smear campaign. Turnabout is fair play.
I've been using the term neo-conservative to illustrate the difference from what could be called a paleo-conservative, or what many would consider a true, or real conservative. And instead of acknowledging or rebutting my points, I'm hit with a charge of anti-Semitism, if not called a Liberal or Leftsist.
Neo simply means new, not jew.
neo - a combining form meaning "new," "recent," "revived," "modified," used in the formation of compound words: neo-Darwinism; Neolithic; neoothodoxy; neophyte.
But Tailgunner provided a link that said: (con is short for 'conservative' and neo is short for 'Jewish')
WTF IS THAT?! And then returns to scold me for not checking out his links and sources.
P.S. paleo- a combining form meaning “old” or “ancient,” esp. in reference to former
geologic time periods, used in the formation of compound words: paleobotany
WhichWing, who_keeps_sneak
July 20, 2009 - 00:39 ET by Free StinkerWhichWing,
who_keeps_sneaking_those_wireless_laptop computers_into_the_psych_ward_for_you ?
The antisemite truther Pumpkinhead is mad at you all.
July 20, 2009 - 10:10 ET by JWFYou gather in a group to...
That reminds me, group meeting is at my house tomorrow. Free Stinker is bringing the chips. Shawn is getting the beer. Who is bringing the paper plates?
Pumpkinhead can't manage to get anything ever correct yet suddenly he is an expert on all things conservative.
I don't enjoy being labeled an anti-Semite...
So pray tell truther Pumpkinhead? Who was responsible for 9/11 then? The Bush administration, The Jews, and/or BBC?
Because most of your fellow truthers, including the guy that put up your truther video, think The Jews were in on it.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Try again
July 20, 2009 - 11:08 ET by UnsaneI don't enjoy being labeled an anti-Semite with half-assed logic. I understand completely, so I used full-assed logic. You constantly use a term which is known to have an anti-Semitic connotation as a pejorative until called on it and obsequiously support an anti-Semitic politician.
You have gone after me in the past for saying nice things about Israel and otherwise supporting them.
I see no evidence anywhere of your ugly claims.
Like it or not, I have used considerbly more than your use of "neo-conservative", my little reactionary, to come up with my conclusion.
You gather in a group to unjustifiably pin a dirty label on me and then all cry foul when an uglier one gets thrown at you. Sorry, I am not a Svengali, nor are my leadership skills quite that impressive, especially online. Anyone else who comes in here speaks on their own behalf.
And instead of acknowledging or rebutting my points, I'm hit with a charge of anti-Semitism, if not called a Liberal or Leftsist. You cannot be more intellectually dishonest if you tried. Your points aren't just rebutted, they are destroyed by a series of posters using heavy doses of reality, history, and common sense. You just choose not to read them, because if you did, in an intellectually honest way, you would be forced, more than likely, to seriously reconsider your warped world view. As another poster pointed out, instead of facing the counter arguments squarely, like a man, you go on a rampage fuelled by your arrogance, falling back heavily on a claim of moral superiority and sarcasm.
Maybe you shouldn't post on NB anymore until you grow up.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
A third party interjected
July 21, 2009 - 02:19 ET by WhichWingA third party interjected and asked you to back up your claims of 'neo-conservative' being anti-Semitic. You could not do so. You replied that you would have to look it up and never returned with a source. You still have provided no source, you have no source. Eventually you come back and say it is anti-Semitic for these 3 reasons:
1. I use it pejoratively. To which I replied that of course I do, just as one might use 'Liberal' in a pejorative manner.
Now, is that not a fair point that you completely ignored, then responded with the exact same line again?!
2. You say that I used the term but when called on it I ceased to use it. That is plain false, and you used that falsehood to give the impression that I had some how acknowledged an anti-Semitc slant to the term. I responded to that fact, and stated that I use the term 'neo-conservative' where it fits to this day, almost 2 years after the first time you tried to claim it wreaked of anti-Semitism.
Again, you responed by repeating that claim exactly. You gave a reasoning that I exposed as false, so you simply repeated it! BRAVO!
3. Last, you accuse Ron Paul of being an anti-Semite and then provide no reason whatsoever for making such a statement. This is typical of you, as you seem to put this label on anyone that doesn't agree to your world view and foreign policy objectives.
Unsane: "You have gone after me in the past for saying nice things about Israel and otherwise supporting them."
Back that up. In what context was this? Did it happen at all? Can you provide a link to any comment I've made that could possibly give your statement even a hint of truth???
For the reading deficient
July 21, 2009 - 05:53 ET by UnsaneA third party interjected and asked you to back up your claims of 'neo-conservative' being anti-Semitic. You could not do so. You replied that you would have to look it up and never returned with a source. You still have provided no source, you have no source. Don't flatter yourself; that just means my world does not orbit you or others. Eventually you come back and say it no, sweetie, I say YOU are anti-Semitic for these 3 reasons:
1. I use it pejoratively. To which I replied that of course I do, just as one might use 'Liberal' in a pejorative manner. I don't use "liberal" or "Leftist" or even "reactionary" as pejoratives but rather as adjectives.
2. You say that I used the term but when called on it I ceased to use it. That is plain false, and you used that falsehood to give the impression that I had some how acknowledged an anti-Semitc slant to the term. I responded to that fact, and stated that I use the term 'neo-conservative' where it fits to this day, almost 2 years after the first time you tried to claim it wreaked of anti-Semitism. Tried to claim? No, no, no, I don't make up the rules of this language. Once again you give me far too much credit.
Is it plain false? I don't think it is. You aren't tossing it about all over the place nearly as much as in the past.
3. Last, you accuse Ron Paul of being an anti-Semite and then provide no reason whatsoever for making such a statement. This is typical of you, as you seem to put this label on anyone that doesn't agree to your world view and foreign policy objectives. Read your beloved "Neo-CONNED!" again. There is anti-Semitism in that. Not to mention the fact that I quoted for you where he was the lone vote out of 404 Representatives against a resolution condemning rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas. Among others. It adds up over time.
You should be thanking me. I have an old newsletter of his which allows me to loft far nastier accusations at him. (In this newsletter he - or the author he tacitly approves of - trashes MLK Jr, for instance.) I haven't quoted or excerpted it, but links to it may lie elsewhere still. I could find it if I didn't have a job to go to. WhichWhine, a job is...forget it...
And as far as you going after me for suporting Israel goes...you have accused me in the past of supporting Israel more than my own country. What am I supposed to think of that?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I put a bunch of Pumpkinheads arab apologist stuff in the forum
July 21, 2009 - 06:55 ET by JWFIncluding a direct quote from Pumpkinhead equating neoconservatives with muslim-haters.
http://newsbusters.org/forums/internal-affairs/whichwing-possibly-most-loathed-user-newsbusters-has-not-been-banned-31581
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You still have not answered my question
July 21, 2009 - 08:37 ET by shawn228Your the one that called tailgunner a child molester, please back up where he specifically called you a anti-semite or apologize to him.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocate, labor unions and trial lawyers" ~fitzfong
Punk.
July 21, 2009 - 11:45 ET by TailgunnerPunk.
(spits on ground)
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Punk.
July 20, 2009 - 17:00 ET by TailgunnerPunk.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Easily avoided
July 21, 2009 - 23:53 ET by UnsaneYou'll notice that it was all he could do to avoid the topic that I was questioning him about. Yet you SCREAM at me elsewhere that I am intellectually dishonest?
Contradictions collapse.
I took you to task on point #17 on that list, which irked me. You were the one who so ached for comparisons on that list.
If you or your buddy wanted to avoid the remotest, slightest possibility of being called an anti-Semite, you could have not used the term "neo-con", ESPECIALLY when this is coupled with #17. (Which is ridiculous anyway.) In a way, it was a synergistic effect.
Had I never seen or known about point #17, I would have no leg to stand on and the only thing you would have heard was derision of your silly list. We wouldn't be having this discussion.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
You say #17 was
July 22, 2009 - 04:14 ET by WhichWingYou say #17 was anti-Semitic? Let me quote it, since you chose not to.
17. They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.
There is a very key word there. It does have a large impact on the statement. That word? UNCONDITIONALLY. We should not support any foreign nation UNDCONDITIONALLY.
Or was your focus on the mention of the Likud Party? I suspect it was not. I figure your indignation was based on an ignorant interpretation of #17. I suppose you removed 'unconditionally' entirely when basing your argument on this.
Am I right, or do you contend that 'unconditionally' does not have any effect on the point of #17?
For some history, here is how you first approached #17 in that thread:
You some how came away with the thinking that I had a "very severe problem with the
existence of Israel." This is why I call you a hypocrite for accusing me of being intellectually dishonest.
Google Bomb! Most loathed person on the internet.
July 22, 2009 - 05:22 ET by JWFClick for results.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=most+loathed+person+on+the+Internet.&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Well, allow me to retort!
July 22, 2009 - 08:43 ET by UnsaneThere is a very key word there. It does have a large impact on the statement. That word? UNCONDITIONALLY. We should not support any foreign nation UNDCONDITIONALLY. Really? Then he could have bitched about a country we support more unconditionally than Israel. See, we have disagreements constantly with Israel, and they have disagreements with us. Right there, the whole "unconditionally" thing? Crap.
If we "unconditionally" supported Israel the way he insists we do, than YOU can explain why the Saudis are flying E-3s and F-15s after the Israelis begged the United States NOT to sell them to the Saudis. Or why Jonathan Pollard is still in the slam; you see, Israel constantly asks for his release. We tell them "go to Hell" every single time.
As for having this allegedly "close alliance" with the Likud Party, you can explain to me Operation Nickel Grass, which supported a government under a Labor PM.
If not anti-Semitic, both you and your hero are at least guilty as all hell of plain stupidity, which could be cured with just a little research.
You some how came away with the thinking that I had a "very severe problem with the existence of Israel." This is why I call you a hypocrite for accusing me of being intellectually dishonest. Nah, you call me a hypocrite because that is much easier for you than facing my counter-argument outlined above squarely. If you don't have a severe problem with the existence of Israel, then why do you scream at posters like myself for "supporting Israel more than your own country"? Why don't you actually read what I posted here?
By the way, the one country we support more "unconditionally"? The United Kingdom. But do I hear any bitching about that unconditional support? NO! It's all about how we "unconditionally" support Israel, which is garbage, as I have outlined above.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Thanks for sharing your
July 23, 2009 - 06:30 ET by WhichWingThanks for sharing your opinion on the matter. As I said in my post, we shouldn't support ANYONE unconditionally. I believe the good Dr. would agree.
Are you now backing away from the accusation of anti-Semitism, reducing it stupidity? We could just call it a difference of a opinion.
I have asked you on many occasions why you support alot of different countries more than you do your own. (Acting as if I only focus on Israel is being dishonest, again.) You might not find that question to be fitting and deny the premise outright, but here is why I would ask such a question. Neo-conservatives don't object to money spent overseas, as a general rule. They are generally OK with foreign aid. But they are almost always opposed to domestic spending. So, what I consider to be a conservative (as opposed to neo-) usually objects to excessive spending on both fronts, whether it be foreign or domestic. Liberals like foreign aid and domestic spending.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
as if you will read this
July 23, 2009 - 09:30 ET by UnsaneThanks for sharing your opinion on the matter. As I said in my post, we shouldn't support ANYONE unconditionally. I believe the good Dr. would agree. The "good Dr.", I am sure, is GREAT at being an Ob/Gyn. He should stick to it.
I have no problem with supporting family unconditionally. Therefore a close alliance with the UK doesn't bother me in the least.
Funny, you "believe" your God would agree but what has he said to that effect? The only country I hear him going after in this regard is Israel.
Are you now backing away from the accusation of anti-Semitism, reducing it stupidity? We could just call it a difference of a opinion. Nah (especially in your case), but I will say this. At BEST, the both of you are flapping your gums about something about which you know nothing. At WORST...anti-Semitism. I plump for the latter based on an array of evidence.
I have asked you on many occasions why you support alot of different countries more than you do your own. Strawman. Acting as if I only focus on Israel is being dishonest, again.) No, it is being accurate, as you have whined that "You (Unsane) support Israel more than your own country!" in the past. If you wanted to stay out of trouble you could have been saying that to begin with.
Neo-conservatives don't object to money spent overseas, as a general rule. There's your favorite slur again. It depends on how the money is spent.
They (Those People) are generally OK with foreign aid. Depends.
But They (Those People) are almost always opposed to domestic spending. Depends.
So, what I consider to be a conservative (as opposed to neo-your favorite slur) usually objects to excessive spending on both fronts, whether it be foreign or domestic. And guess what? In a perfect world, the biggest chunk of federal spending would be on it's Constitutional role, defense. IMHO, we do not spend nearly enough on the military. If the military were spnding all this money that you so repeatedly claim, they you can explain why we are flying tankers that are approaching the 50-year mark. Or why the F-22 was canceled, or why Congress will not consider spending more money on C-17s.
What the rest of America considers to be a conservative has zero problem with military spending. One, the military keeps the country safe. Two, the military (and America) being forces for good, this is a good thing. Three, by projecting power globally and putting out brush fires before the explode into massive conflagrations (see WWII), we can wind up spending MUCH LESS than we did during WWII. As far as domestic spending goes...there has to be some, as it is a necessary evil, but it should not go to pamper people with a "retirement" or health care in any way, shape, manner, or form. Congress can spend money on transportation, sure. And law enforcement, and the Postal Service, and other things. But not, say, education, which the states can do all by themselves.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Unsane: "The only country
July 24, 2009 - 07:12 ET by WhichWingUnsane: "The only country I hear him going after in this regard is Israel."
It's probably safe to say that you haven't heard much of what Ron Paul has to say. Here is something he wrote on the subject of foreign aid.
This is an excerpt from another interesting piece on this topic, found here:
Unsane: "No, it is being accurate, as you have whined that "You (Unsane) support Israel more than your own country!" in the past."
Can you show me where I said this? The context of the discussion would help, and I wonder who brought up Israel first. I know who usually does...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Right Here
July 24, 2009 - 07:56 ET by JWFCan you show me where I said this?
Wait, It is the members of NewsBusters.
We have bases all over the world and we are constantly building more, but at the same time we are closing bases here at home. And you call that defending out country? We would never stand for someone coming into our country and overthrowing our government, so you shouldn't be surprised when the rest of the world doesn't either. You pick a fight and then scream "they started it!" If only you were as interested in your own nation as you are in foreign nations...
Wrong
July 24, 2009 - 08:42 ET by WhichWingUnsane has quoted me, now on a couple of occasions, as saying "You support Israel more than your own country!"
JWF came up with this: "If only you were as interested in your own nation as you are in foreign nations... "
Is it possible that Unsane was being dishonest? JWF provided a quote and a link to the original statement, so we know his is accurate. Here are the changes to context:
We'll have to wait and see what Unsane produces, but this doesn't look good for the tag team duo!
H/T to JWF on the research.
Worry about your own
July 16, 2009 - 09:08 ET by UnsaneInstead of worrying about my critical thinking skills, if I were you I'd worry a lot more about my own. Considering you have none, and it is obvious, as you run away as soon as you are confronted with hard evidence that calls into question your entire world view.
Instead of worrying about MY hypocrisy, you should be worrying about my own, as JWF demonstrates below.
And of course, you would try to call me a Leftist. Go ahead. It is only going to assure your losing of yet another argument. Not to mention it is going to make you look like an idiot. See, WhichWhine, before tossing around terms like "Leftist", "statist", "fascist", "central planner" and so on like candy in a bit to sound smart, you MAY want to take the time to figure out what they actually mean, for starters.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I bet...
July 17, 2009 - 06:24 ET by WhichWingI'm betting you watched, but cannot formulate an intelligent response. Don't worry about that though, the BBC resorted to quoting YouTube users for their evidence.
I like how you mention someone running away as soon as they are confronted with hard evidence that calls into question their entire world view. Though I wouldn't consider this video to be 'hard' evidence, you are doing exactly what you accuse others of. You are runnig away, refusing to confront the video and it's contents, only because it would call your world view into question.
If you recall, here's what you had said: "So funny how Leftists like to puff themselves up as the most superior
people on earth when they cannot tolerate critical thinking whatsoever."
So you are a Leftist, using your formula. And denial of that makes you a hypocrite.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Try being smart instead of LOOKING smart
July 17, 2009 - 19:48 ET by UnsaneSo you are a Leftist, using your formula. Tossing about labels like candy in a bid to make yourself look smart is MUCH EASIER than confronting arguements squarely, isn't it?
You still need to prove I am a hypocrite.
I haven't watched your precious video the same way I haven't watched a bunch of movies a friend loaned me months ago. See, WhichWhine, I realize that you are EXTREMELY self-absorbed to the point where you are completely enraged when someone tells you of a creature called "society", BUT just because you post a video does not mean a Fox Terrier response from me.
1) The Internet is slow where I am.
2) I have important things to do. Like, learning auto mechanics in a crash course. Getting my transportation running again sorta kinda trumps you.
3) As does eating, sleeping, and working.
Oh, i'll watch it, in due course. It's best you come back here from time to time because I will at some point, and I will critique it. But bear in mind that just because it is on the BBC does NOT guarantee I will automatically agree with it. I like the BBC for its wide array of information, especially in terms of international coverage.
Hell, I subscribe to The Economist, a mag which thinks His Majesty The Shahinshah can do NO WRONG and a mag which has repeatedly editorialized on your favorite subject in a way in which you would agree with them. Yet I STILL read the mag. Why is that?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Critique
July 20, 2009 - 11:32 ET by UnsaneIf you remember 11 September 2001 - and I do, as I was not in a drug-induced state at the time - the news reports were fast and furious, and at times no one knew what the hell anyone was talking about, what was true and what was not.
To wit, I remember perfectly well that when I was on campus that day running to tell some of my friends what was going on, I was stopped by a woman who told me that the Pentagon was hit by a plane. I didn't believe her. So I had a friend of mine look into it on a Internet which was basically undergoing the mother of all traffic jams. It turned out to be true.
Many people didn't believe me initially when I told them the towers collapsed, yet that in fact happened.
Then there were the rumors - of a car bomb that blew up at the State Department (didn't happen) and an oil embargo launched by Saudi Arabia and other countries (didn't happen but didn't stop OH gas stations from jacking up the price of a gallon of unleaded to $5). There was a great deal going on and am quite frankly shocked the media didn't do a lot more mis-reporting and screwups.
So, to boil away everything, I really don't see the point behind this video. Oh, and one more thing - was that REALLY WTC7 or a misidentified building? (Lots of people who overfly Chicago confuse the Willis Tower with the John Hancock Building, for example.)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I watched his stupid truther video and had the same thought.
July 20, 2009 - 13:59 ET by JWFTo borrow a cliche. All of you buildings look alike to me.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
The side stories were
July 22, 2009 - 06:08 ET by WhichWingThe side stories were good...
Now address the video. In the video, a reporter standing with WTC7 in view of the camera, reports that WTC7 has collapsed. This comes true twenty-five minutes later.
And it is indeed WTC 7, in this clip they show the actual collapse of the building, that happens around the 3:15 mark, from what appears to be the same window. That collapse looks pretty fishy, wouldn't you say? (I am implying that it looks like a controlled demolition in that clip.)
Pumpkinhead is a truther.
July 22, 2009 - 06:14 ET by JWFWe expose him for the anti-military, al qaeda lovin', arab apologisin', antisemitic truther he is here.
?
July 22, 2009 - 06:33 ET by WhichWingCan you say that the collapse in that video doesn't look like a controlled demolition? Are you saying that?
Or you could just use google.
July 22, 2009 - 06:36 ET by JWFgoogle - most loathed person on the internet.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=most+loathed+person+on+the+internet.&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
No see
July 22, 2009 - 06:45 ET by WhichWing"Ah! I can't look!" says JWF. "This doesn't fit the scenario that was presented to me by my government. A government that has lied to me in the past, but I'm sure never would again."
McNamara in Purgatory
July 22, 2009 - 07:03 ET by JWFMcNamara in Purgatory: Setting the War Record Straight
Robert McNamara grabbed me by the ankles and yanked himself atop a car I had clambered onto moments earlier. The secretary of defense was scrambling for a spot from which to address the antiwar protestors who had mobbed him outside of a dorm at Harvard University. On that day in November 1966, I had rushed over from the adjacent dorm to cover for my hometown newspaper the melee that turned out to be one of the pivotal points of his career.
From the roof of the car, McNamara rattled off statistics about the North Vietnamese infiltration of free Vietnam. Before he was whisked away by security agents, he ended his impromptu remarks by telling the protestors that he had gone to Berkeley and done a lot of the same things they were doing -- except that he was more courteous and tougher.
That encounter offered some clues to McNamara's subsequent collapse in respect of the war and his disingenuousness about his own role in it. For it turns out that neither of McNamara's assertions was true. To start with, he was not more courteous, a point underscored by Deborah Shapley, who, in a brilliant biography called "Promise and Power," depicts McNamara as essentially a toady to his superiors and arrogant and dismissive to his staff.
Nor was he tougher. Ms. Shapley quotes his secretary as telling a friend that toward the end of his tenure McNamara would often turn toward the window in an attempt to hide his emotions. "He does it all the time now," Ms. Shapley quotes his secretary. "He cries into the curtains."
The notion that for too long McNamara hid his doubts about the war rather than fighting against it has been aired anew in the wake of his death this week. This indictment was articulated most famously -- and eloquently -- in an editorial issued by the New York Times in 1995, when the former Whiz Kid came out with his memoir. "In Retrospect" was McNamara's confessional: He realized he was wrong on Vietnam.
"At the time," the Times editorialized, "he appeared to be helping an obsessed President prosecute a war of no real consequence to the security of the United States. Millions of loyal citizens concluded that the war was a militarily unnecessary and politically futile effort to prop up a corrupt government that could neither reform nor defend itself."
What the Times failed to say was that there were millions of loyal citizens who thought the war could be won. And in the years after McNamara left the Pentagon it was won, at least in the field if not in Congress, by American and South Vietnamese soldiers. These citizens believed the right thing to do in Vietnam was stick with the fight, the way we did in other wars that had early reverses, like Korea, World War II, and the Civil War.
Most people who take this view do not -- and do not have to -- gainsay the patriotism of the doves. But they do dispute the notion that the doves turned out to be right in the end. They see McNamara's default on Vietnam as a failure to support his military commanders during the years when they were seeking a greater commitment of troops and the authority to use overwhelming force.
One historian of the war, Mark Moyar, spoke in a radio broadcast this week about how McNamara maneuvered against the generals. He blocked their access to the political leadership in an effort to protect his own strategy, which was to escalate gradually in the hope that the enemy would take a hint. Another point Mr. Moyar made is that the Vietnam War, which went poorly between 1963 and 1968 when McNamara was defense secretary, improved from 1969 onward.
McNamara's great failure, in short, was not that he continued to front for a war he had concluded was wrong and had decided we would lose. It was that he collapsed in a war that he should have known we could win -- and then derided its very purpose. A central tenet of the left, after all, is that all the dying in the Vietnam War was without purpose. Here is how that famous New York Times editorial put it about McNamara: "Surely he must in every quiet and prosperous moment hear the ceaseless whispers of those poor boys in the infantry, dying in the tall grass, platoon by platoon, for no purpose."
I'm not so sure lack of purpose is what those infantrymen will be whispering to McNamara in whatever purgatory he finds himself. Many did grow cynical with respect to the American expedition -- I talked to hundreds of them in 1970, the year that I covered combat for Pacific Stars and Stripes.
But there also were many GIs who believed in the war in which they were risking their lives. And there were millions of South Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians in and out of uniform who understood the consequences of defeat. It is these people -- if they escaped the killing fields and re-education camps in which so many perished -- who have been living with those consequences ever since.
One newspaper editor who did stand by the war, J. Russell Wiggins of the Washington Post, liked to remind his friends of the saying that history doesn't disclose her alternatives. But one wonders what signals the Soviet empire would have drawn had America abandoned Indochina without a fight.
Vietnam was but one battle in a vast twilight struggle against communism in which our side finally prevailed. This is true even though McNamara spent time as head of the World Bank maneuvering to underwrite the very Vietnamese communists who'd broken his spirit on the battlefield. How sad it must have been for Robert McNamara that he couldn't, in his final years, find a way simply to celebrate the GIs who'd appeared in arms in the long pursuit of victory
Look at JWF
July 22, 2009 - 07:11 ET by WhichWingLook at JWF, throwing stones from his glass house:
Pumpkinhead won't stop playing with the big gun.
July 22, 2009 - 08:20 ET by JWFI used the big gun on a troll that was eventually banned due to trollish behavoir.
What is your excuse for using it on a respected member, Pumpkinhead?
Alert
July 23, 2009 - 06:33 ET by WhichWingYou are the one engaging in trollish behavior. You should alert the admins.
My excuse is in this thread 2 or 3 times, and your other trolling thread 2 or 3 times.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Punk.
July 23, 2009 - 13:15 ET by TailgunnerPunk.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Punk.
July 22, 2009 - 14:04 ET by TailgunnerPunk.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
It's the other way around, pal. (edit)
July 30, 2009 - 11:14 ET by TailgunnerA properly executed controlled demolition looks like a natural collapse.
There's no way the WTC was properly prepared and wired to bring about a successful controlled demolition.
Therefore what we have left is a natural collapse of the WTC probably brought about by the heat damage to the columns brought about by the crash and fire of the aircraft impacts.
But that's too simple for those who are hell-bent on blaming the US and Israel for a ludicrous 'agent provocateur' operation against all evidence to the contrary; in fact against reality.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
I don't get it.
July 26, 2009 - 13:44 ET by TailgunnerIf 'They' had the WTC rigged for controlled demolition, why go through all that trouble to hijack the aircraft?
The logistics of simply hauling and installing tons of explosives is immense enough.
Plus, as anyone who's watched the 'Discovery Channel' knows, you just can't tape a couple bars of PETN to the nearest pillar and expect it to work.
Demolition crews spend weeks removing material from the interiors of these buildings to position the explosives to complete a perfect 'pancake' demolition.
And still things can go wrong. The building can topple in any direction and cause billions in collateral damage. Or parts of it might not fall, requiring the near-suicidal task of entering the weakened structure and re-rigging explosives.
So the average 'truther' is saying that without anyone noticing, even a heavy security presence, 'They' smuggled tons of explosives into all WTC buildings, rigged all the columns, (even those in locked, alarmed offices) without properly preparing them, failed to link the charges together for essential properly sequenced ignition, then left without detection?
And, having 'ensured' that all the WTC buildings would come crashing down at a time of their choosing, they still sacrificed the lives of over a dozen of their own (and several hundred innocents, but that's not important to them) operatives in an unnecessary plot to hijack aircraft to fly into the WTC?
And when the towers were 'blown' that, despite the half-assed (yet nearly impossible in practice) undetected installation of the explosives, both towers collapsed in textbook perfection?
I've even read somewhere that the aircraft themselves weren't 'really' aircraft.
There seems to be a strong anti-Semitic component to the 'truther' movement.
The allegations that 'Jews' were secretly told to 'stay away from work' on 9/11, and the strong belief that the Mossad was responsible for happenings in America they could not remotely control make this a typical, tangled, illogical, byzantine Islamic attempt to exonerate Islamic terrorists and blame America and the Jews.
Which, incidentally, is what antisemites usually spend a lot of their time doing...regardless of how stupid they look in the process.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Can we get this troll banned now.
July 26, 2009 - 14:31 ET by JWFThis is absolutely inexcusable that we have to waste our time trying to educate a complete idiot 8 years after the fact.
You are talking to the choir. There is nothing this idiot will learn from any of us.
I want him banned. I am sick and tired of looking at his written garbage.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Guessing
July 31, 2009 - 06:32 ET by WhichWingI guess the aircraft were meant to disguise the demolition.
I don't know that "tons" of explosives would have been necessary.
Demolition experts must be wasting a lot of time, considering three buildings all fell into their own footprint on that day. (No demolition required, as the story goes.)
You wonder repeatedly about how this could be done, and maybe Marvin Bush would be a clue. Or is this just another coincidence?
I have also heard of the "no plane" theories, but don't give them any time.
You and your infatuation with Jews, I'll just never understand it. Everything seems to be an attack on Israel or Jews with some of you guys. You'll have to work that theory out on your own (I've already got a pretty big one on my plate).
"I guess the aircraft were meant to disguise the demolition."
July 31, 2009 - 11:24 ET by TailgunnerThat is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on this subject.
It's proof of how desperate some people are to place blame on America and Israel.
The 'obsession' with Israel belongs with those who reject reality time after time to deflect blame from the actual Islamic terrorists who plotted and carried out 9/11.
I can't deal with someone who actually believes that a plot more detailed, intricate and risky than this alleged 'demolition' and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocents and over a dozen of their own operatives was intended as 'a disguise'?
What did the aircraft that hit the Pentagon 'disguise'?
Or Flight 93 which was brought down short of its target?
You're not in contact with reality, pal.
It's humorous and sad at the same time.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Is it
August 1, 2009 - 07:22 ET by WhichWingIs that really ridiculous? Try to play out a hypothetical here with me. If you wanted to demolish those towers, would you just do it? Or do the planes not provide a better cover?
No need to answer, we know which camp each of us is in, but hypothetically, whether official or conspiracy is truth, the planes would provide an excellent cover for a demolition.
Whoever the culprit, they are evil people, so pointing out innocent deaths as reasoning why this is or is not a conspiracy is just plain absurd.
Since you brought up the Pentagon, are you telling me that you see an airliner in this video? You being a military man might have a better idea of what it is. But with both of us being logical thinkers, we can rule out an airliner.
You wanted Ken Starr to find out if Bill Clinton lied to you, but you don't want to know what how why about 9/11? You don't question why Bush and Cheney resisted testifying about the events of 9/11? Then when they relented, you don't think it's strange that they insisted on testifying together, behind closed doors and not under oath.
Watch this clip that includes press conferences following the Bush/Cheney talk with the 9/11 commission, and watch how uncomfortable GW is. How he answers with silly responses, half-assed attempts to avoid the question. Just watch it and tell me he isn't acting weird.
I mentioned in another post the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the fire at the Reichstag. This would not have been an unprecedented event, save for maybe the scale of it.
So don't try to tell me what reality is. They gave you a story on 9/12 and you never asked a single question. Maybe they honestly believe the story. Maybe the story is an outright lie. And maybe the story is true! But you don't know because you never asked, you just accepted.
Your screwed up sense of reality came up with this CONSPIRACY THEORY: "to deflect blame from the actual Islamic terrorists who plotted and carried out 9/11." You've determined that people that question 9/11 are actually engaged in some sort of elaborate plan to "blame the Jews and Israel."
Get real, man.
Well, who DID it? You deny Islamic terrorists did.
August 1, 2009 - 12:22 ET by Tailgunner"You've determined that people that question 9/11 are actually engaged in some sort of elaborate plan to "blame the Jews and Israel."
No, you've determined that Islamic terrorists were not responsible for 9/11 and you're tying yourself in knots trying to exonerate them.
Who's left? Who was responsible? Who had enough control over events here in America to carry out 9/11?
Will you put it in writing, right here, that Israel had no involvement in any way in 9/11?
Will you do the same for your own country? Will you deny that America plotted to murder 3,000 of its own citizens and blame it on Islamic terrorists?
I'll bet you won't.
Get real? I don't have a problem with reality.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
I've determined no such
August 2, 2009 - 01:29 ET by WhichWingI've determined no such thing. You've assumed these things. I don't know who the guilty party is. The only thing that I am sure of is that the official story is not complete.
You can find all the scapegoats you want. Pick a race or a religion or a country and cry all you want, but don't put words into my mouth.
Your logic of 'he doesn't believe the official story so he must think it's not Muslims so he must think it's Jews' is pretty stupid. I probably shouldn't even refer to it as logic.
DID YOU WATCH THOSE VIDEOS???? Did you see how uncomfortable GW was? Did it make you think Israel had something to do with it? Did it make you think Muslims had something to do with it? Did you think at all?
Question what you perceive to be reality. Or follow blindly and shout louder than the other guy.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
You are AT LEAST implying that Bush was involved in this...
August 2, 2009 - 14:52 ET by Tailgunner...or had knowledge of the 'real' 9/11...in which case he either murdered, caused to be murdered, or was an accessory to the murders of 3,000 American citizens...
...which is at least as repulsive an allegation as 'the Joos did it'.
There is no other reason that remark would be relevant to this discussion.
"Did you see how uncomfortable GW was?"
Well, yes, seeing how as a new and inexperienced President he was dealing with nothing less than a declaration of war by Islamic fundamentalists.
I don't recall Bush apologizing for the Crusades, BTW. He kicked terrorist ass for eight years and kept our homeland safe.
Bush was also crucified for remaining outwardly calm when first presented with the news while reading to schoolchildren. Seems Dubya just can't win.
And you're getting lower and more despicable with your wild allegations, insinuations and innuendoes in each post.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Pumpkinhead is an arab apologist.
August 2, 2009 - 15:36 ET by JWFHe actively supports terrorists, islamic extremists, and any other enemies of this country with his every post.
By casting doubt on the truth, he provides sympathy to the real perpatrators behind 9/11, the July 7 London bombings, the Bali Bombings, Madrid, Beslan, and elsewhere.
Pumpkinhead needs to do us all a favor and take his jihad for Master Bin Laden elsewhere.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Pumpkinhead is an arab
August 2, 2009 - 15:39 ET by Free StinkerPumpkinhead is an arab apologist.
Among other things . . . ;-)
I keep wondering when the guy is going to start spouting off nonsense about ZOG . . .
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
Oops
August 3, 2009 - 00:45 ET by WhichWingLooks like I refered to the wrong person as a child molester, huh? Or do you just actively support them?
What is Pumpkinhead talking about now?
August 3, 2009 - 01:25 ET by JWFDoes Pumpkinhead think he will hurt me with that?
His troll buddy null_order had to point out to him I used this on one of his previous incantations here on newsbusters (pi314). Pumpkinhead was too stupid to find that one on his own. Yes, Pumpkinhead, he told me. Even other trolls have no respect for you.
Does Osama Bin Laden know how utterly dense his accolyte WhichWing is?
Punk.
August 3, 2009 - 07:36 ET by TailgunnerPunk.
That's all you will ever be on this forum from now on...
A punk.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Oops
August 3, 2009 - 01:06 ET by WhichWingRacist.
Awwww. Pumpkinhead thinks he is hurting me with the racist label
August 3, 2009 - 01:27 ET by JWFHey Pumpkinhead, arabapologistsezwhat?
Hurting who
August 3, 2009 - 01:29 ET by WhichWingI think you are hurting yourself by proudly wearing the racist label.
Google Bomb!
August 3, 2009 - 01:49 ET by JWFGoogle this boys and girls -
the arab apologist & islamist sympathizer that loves master osama
Have you guys tried this yet?
August 2, 2009 - 15:57 ET by JWFgoogle - arab apologist
What is the first name that turns up?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
LOL
August 2, 2009 - 16:00 ET by Free StinkerLOL
Wrong again
August 3, 2009 - 00:55 ET by WhichWingIt is YOU that is trying so hard to pin this all on someone. I've just questioned things that appear to be strange. Most investigations gather evidence and then determine a suspect. You seem to want to do it backwards. Actually, you don't even seem to be interested in evidence, you just want to point fingers wildly.
And it is YOU that keeps saying 'the Joos did it.'
I'm glad you can be honest enough to recognize how uncomfortable GW was in reference to his 9/11 Commission testimony (that he couldn't do alone or under oath for), but your analysis is wrong. You tried to say he was a "new and inexperienced President" as an explanation for his awkward behavior, when in fact that was in April of 2004.
As to your final comment, it is YOU that keeps making "wild allegations, insinuations and innuendoes in each post." That is what you do instead of thinking critically.
BTW, you never mentioned your thoughts on the molten metal pouring out of the tower, care to do so?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Too bad
July 22, 2009 - 08:48 ET by UnsaneNow address the video. I did address the video. You may address the critique now.
That collapse looks pretty fishy, wouldn't you say? (I am implying that it looks like a controlled demolition in that clip.) And you throw a temper tantrum when JWF calls you a "truther"? (Which you are and have yet to see a conspiracy theory you do not like...)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
You pretty much skirted the
July 23, 2009 - 06:42 ET by WhichWingYou pretty much skirted the issue. Your critique was basically this: it was a busy, chaotic day, crap happens.
That doesn't address the fact that the building they were reporting on was in view of the camera. Did you watch the second linked video in order to verify that it was WTC7? Did it look like a controlled demolition? (You must have missed that question in my last post.)
You are slightly wrong. Usually it is JWF throwing a tantrum while calling me a truther. A tactic he has used to avoid discussion, after joining the discussion. I would consider myself an asker on the topic of 9/11. I don't understand why you wouldn't ask questions.
Just because you think WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition doesn't have to mean you think it was the US that was responsible. Why couldn't Al Qaeda be the ones responsible? Maybe the ISI? It is you and JWF that is jumping to the conclusion of our gov't, not me.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
And still you whine
July 23, 2009 - 09:45 ET by UnsaneYou pretty much skirted the issue. Your critique was basically this: it was a busy, chaotic day, crap happens. Yep, and this explains why the BBC misreported what was going on.
I do not see the point behind this video. You told me to watch and critique. You did not tell me what the "issue" was. So get over it and deal with it and move on. Be happy you got that.
That doesn't address the fact that the building they were reporting on was in view of the camera. Did you watch the second linked video in order to verify that it was WTC7? Did it look like a controlled demolition? (You must have missed that question in my last post.) No, it was not a controlled demolition. (It looked like a terrorist attack to me.) Yawn. Get over it, WhichWhine.
You are slightly wrong. Usually it is JWF throwing a tantrum while calling me a truther. A tactic he has used to avoid discussion, after joining the discussion. I would consider myself an asker on the topic of 9/11. I don't understand why you wouldn't ask questions. Here, "asker". Read City In The Sky. And it is pretty sad that you call yourself an "asker" on 11 September 2001 when it is clearly the biggest event on my lifetime, and that of many millions of Americans. You have to ask about it? Really? Just how many different drugs were you on that day?
And time to face facts: the only people saying that WTC7 was a controlled demolition are TRUTHERS.
Just because you think WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition doesn't have to mean you think it was the US that was responsible. Why couldn't Al Qaeda be the ones responsible? Maybe the ISI? It is you and JWF that is jumping to the conclusion of our gov't, not me. Yeah, as I have pointed out repeatedly before, you are simply not going to rig enough explosives for a controlled demolition without lots of people noticing what is going on. You cannot due to the logistical requirements ALONE. (What the hell is the ISI?) And save your whining. The only people truthers blame for 9/11/01 is the government of the United States. Now you are just being purely disingenuous.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
My mistake, allow me to
July 24, 2009 - 07:35 ET by WhichWingMy mistake, allow me to clarify. The "issue" in the BBC video was the fact that they were reporting on a building having collapsed. That building, World Trade Center 7, was visible in the background. Not until 20 minutes after reporting that the building collapsed did it actually do so. Critique away. (Or don't, either way.)
Oddly enough, 9/11 is about the only thing we don't ask about. The government spent more investigating Clinton's blowjobs than they did on the deaths of more than 3,000 Americans. And we had to twist their arm to get that much. And since you probably have a better memory than I, when did the official theory become official? Was it September 11 or 12?
What did you call the people that question the Gulf of Tonkin Incident? Were they truthers also? What if you had questioned the Reichstag fire? Truthers all of 'em! Better check on your buddy Free Stinker, he's got another thread going that is questioning Barack Obama's status as a natural born citizen. He is a truther then, right?
I suppose people might think it was an "inside job" because of logic like yours. How could anyone plant that many explosives without having special clearance or something, right? Well I don't know, but I guess anything is possible. Maybe they the guy in charge of security.
And the ISI is the "Inter-Services Intelligence," Pakistan's CIA.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Learn what logistics is
July 25, 2009 - 18:48 ET by UnsaneI suppose people might think it was an "inside job" because of logic like yours. How could anyone plant that many explosives without having special clearance or something, right? Well I don't know, but I guess anything is possible. Maybe they the guy in charge of security. No, because they are stupid, and apparently so are you. It has a TEENSY bit more to do than having "special clearances". You obviously know next to nothing about what a massive logistical undertaking that would be, and that alone destroys your theory.
Oh, and that is a massive logistical undertaking in a city with, oh, I don't know, 10 million people, in a very densely populated space, in office buildings that are world renowned landmarks. Note also there is limited space to work on something like this on Manhattan.
And the ISI is the "Inter-Services Intelligence," Pakistan's CIA. ...and why would they do it? This ought to be real good...
What did you call the people that question the Gulf of Tonkin Incident? Were they truthers also? What if you had questioned the Reichstag fire? Truthers all of 'em! Better check on your buddy Free Stinker, he's got another thread going that is questioning His Majesty The Shahinshah's status as a natural born citizen. He is a truther then, right? "Truther" has a specific connotation, and that is for losers like you who still cannot accept what happened on 11 September 2001 like most other normal people.
Being a smartass is no substitute for critical thinking and intellectual honesty.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
First of all, implausible
July 26, 2009 - 06:39 ET by WhichWingFirst of all, implausible doesn't not mean impossible. Next, had there been an investigation instead of a rush to destroy evidence (intentional or not, that's exactly what happened), we might know more about how or why the buildings collapsed. The only steel framed buildings to collapse due to fire, before or since 9/11, by the way. Since I won't be able to prove a negative, perhaps you could show us that to be false. Steel framed building collapsing due to fire, never before or since, but three times in one day, tell me more about your coincidence theory.
And you didn't answer, did the official story become official on September 11 or 12? (I'm alluding to how little investigation was actually done on the theory you stand by.)
I didn't mean to imply that the ISI was in fact involved, I was trying to point out to you that the US gov't doesn't have to be the only suspect. Maybe the gov't isn't lying, maybe they are just wrong.
Truther being reserved for those that question 9/11, what would you refer to my other examples as? What did you call the people that question the Gulf of Tonkin Incident? What if you had questioned the Reichstag fire? Better check on your buddy Free Stinker, he's got another thread going that is questioning His Majesty The Shahinshah's status as a natural born citizen.
Maybe you'd just call some of them correct?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
The only steel framed
July 26, 2009 - 06:53 ET by Jack BauerThis is an utterly fallacious "point."
Let's start with the obvious, there have been no "steel framed buildings" which have had fully fuel-laden Jumbo jets crashing into them at maximum speed, before or since 9/11 either.
There have, however, been MULIPLE technical reports on how the 1200 foot tall WTC was designed and constructed, and how its frame buckled to cause a catastrophic pancake collapse. MULTIPLE.
The fact that you don't believe them is neither here nor there, nor evidence of anything. Except your illogical non-scientific agenda.
Oh -- and IMPEACH BUSH & CHENEY.
How do you explain
July 26, 2009 - 07:17 ET by WhichWingHow do you explain WTC 7? It lacks all the things you just mentioned.
I corrected your statement for you:
"There have, however, been MULIPLE technical reports on how the 1200 foot tall WTC was designed and constructed, and how its frame buckled to cause a catastrophic pancake collapse at freefall speeds. MULTIPLE."
(shrugs)
August 2, 2009 - 18:06 ET by UnsaneI don't know...I know you have an obsessive devotion to WTC7 like it actually proves anything...but have you been to Ground Zero?
I have. Two years passed and you could still see quite a bit of damage on neighboring strucures. The only people shocked by the collapse of WTC7 are drug-addled Conspiros.
Maybe you should stick to talking about things you know about. Which limits you to talking about drugs...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
OD
August 3, 2009 - 02:13 ET by WhichWingLooks like you have an obsessive devotion to ignoring the anomolies surrounding WTC7.
Like what?
August 17, 2009 - 19:49 ET by UnsaneWhat anomalies? Other than the ones you so desperately WANT to see?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Conspiro
July 26, 2009 - 19:41 ET by UnsaneThe only steel framed buildings to collapse due to fire, before or since 9/11, by the way
Steel framed building collapsing due to fire, never before or since,
Really? Warehouses aren't made of steel frames?
Warehouses can quite easily collapse due to fire. And the far reching majority of them have steel frames. In fact, the way many of them are designed, once one of the roof structural supports fail (not the pillars but the beams supporting the roof), the whole thing collapses.
Congratulations. Did I mention I also was part of a VFD for awhile?
One more thing: you DO know what a foundry is, don't you? And what happens there?
First of all, implausible doesn't not mean impossible. No, in this case, my little Conspiro, it is logistically impossible. Next, had there been an investigation instead of a rush to destroy evidence (intentional or not, that's exactly what happened), we might know more about how or why the buildings collapsed. We DO know why they collapsed. Go read City In The Sky; it explains in detail why. The problem is that you absolutely, positively, refuse refuse refuse to believe it. Your refusal to accept basic reality is really not my problem. Maybe this is why you are so enamored of drugs...
Maybe you'd just call some of them correct? Not you, that's for sure, my little drug-addled Conspiro. Now run along and read City In The Sky, a book published by a newspaper with a visceral, obsessive hatred for President Bush, and by extension, a paper with more to gain than you do in proving your weak, pathetic conspiracy theory true.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
D'oh
July 28, 2009 - 01:43 ET by WhichWingYou got me, I should have said steel-framed tower, high-rise, or some variant thereof. Can you still provide an example, now that I've clarified?
I missed your answer again, when did the official theory become official, September 11th or 12th?
Conspiro
July 28, 2009 - 05:36 ET by UnsaneYep. Spoken like a true Conspiro. Whenever the Conspiro gets the answer he doesn't want to hear, or if it in some way destroys his cherished theory...why, just move the goalposts.
Oh, I don't know, WhichWhine, it became official when a few million non-drug-addled Americans watched United Airlines Flight 175 plow right into the South Tower on national television. I can't remember who said it on Fox News - I was not watching at the time - but he announced the obvious: "This is deliberate."
Just say no, WhichWhine, just say no. And read the issue of Popular Mechanics that destroys your conspiracy theory even more completely and thoroughly.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Got me again...
July 29, 2009 - 01:36 ET by WhichWingYou did it Unsane. You got me, again. There's no way I could have been referring to steel framed high rises in a dicsussion about two 110 story buildings, and a 47-story building. Your example of couple story warehouses just blew my observation right out of the water! (No steel framed high rise had collapsed due to fire before, or since 9/11, yet it happened 3 times on that day.)
Nobody doubts this was deliberate, Unsane, the doubt is in the accuracy of the official story. According to you, the official story became 'official' when Flight 175 hit the WTC. That doesn't sound like a lot of investigation to me, how about you?
By the way, the people that have provided you with the story that you cling to also came up with these gems:
Your coincidence theory gets more amazing all the time.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Keep moving those goalposts
July 29, 2009 - 16:35 ET by UnsaneNo steel framed high rise had collapsed due to fire before, or since 9/11, yet it happened 3 times on that day. When, before that day, had a high-rise building get hit with a large airliner full of jet fuel which ignited upon impact?
When I became a firefighter years ago, I was told by the fire chief that he loved the business because every situation he had encountered was different. Having been in the business for awhile, I can see where he is right.
Well, can you do it? Locate a situation where a high-rise building got hit with a large airliner full of jet fuel that ignited upon impact?
Do not go with the B-29 crashing into the Empire State Building in 1946 (or was it '45?) either - the Empire State Building has a major difference in construction. Its support beams are made of steel but they are shielded from the outside world by brick and other such materials. It would be much much harder to similarly take down the Empire State Building due to that fact alone.
Amazing, right? Survived a plane crash into the WTC, the fireball that followed, then floated to the streets where it was found by a passerby. This can only amaze you. Read on.
Another miracle! From a crash site where no bodies can be seen, no shoes, no seats, no blood, they find two passports belonging to hijackers. Since I am obsessed with history, I bought a series of books and magazines from that month covering that event. I have several pictures of areas covered with paper ejected from the towers by various means. Really, are you trying to impress me here? Because you are failing, and failing miserably.
When a tornado hits a town, it is not uncommon for a tornado to tear a shingle or two off of a neighboring house of one flattened in the event. The same is true of eaethquakes. And not everything goes up in flames in a fire, WhichWhine, as this former firefighter can tell you.
Keep right on moving those goalposts. It's a Conspiro thing to do.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Always love to show this artical
July 29, 2009 - 17:01 ET by general companyNo steel framed high rise had collapsed due to fire before, or since 9/11, yet it happened 3 times on that day. When, before that day, had a high-rise building get hit with a large airliner full of jet fuel which ignited upon impact?
Every time I see this type of thought
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Doesn't matter. Got to blame them Joos.
July 29, 2009 - 20:34 ET by TailgunnerThis truther train departed Reality Station years ago.
All that's left is a blind, irrational, desperate burning hatred of Israel and America.
Psychotic is the term I'd normally use for someone who watches two jetliners full of people fly into two skyscrapers then tells people there were no planes and blames the collapse on someone actually pulling off a picture perfect demolition job involving tons of high explosives without detection.
I mean...if CNN says it was airliners then the Mossad must be really, really good.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
??
July 30, 2009 - 06:30 ET by WhichWingTailgunner said:
?? I'll have plenty for you to disagree with, I doubt you'll need to create more.
I went into much greater detail a couple posts down.
July 30, 2009 - 11:10 ET by TailgunnerI posted a series of questions and conclusions a few days ago, which you have not yet addressed.
Don't cherry pick the summary and ignore the details.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Sorry
July 31, 2009 - 06:33 ET by WhichWingI have looked for the post that you refer to, but have not found it. Once these threads go to two pages I have a tough time finding *new posts.
EDIT: I found it, or one anyway. Was 'above' in the way I have it setup.
Some thoughts for my friend Unsane.
July 30, 2009 - 00:01 ET by JWFThe planes hit high in the WTC's 1 & 2. Knocking out power and damaging the water delivery system. Firefighters had to walk up 80 stories to attack the fires. If the planes had hit low, the firefighters might have made it and started to aggressively attack the fires and we might not be having this conversation.
Most high rise buildings have sprinkler systems to knock down any fires. this combined with the ability of firefighters to quickly get on scene accounts for why we rarely hear of highrise fires doing great damage.
The B-29 that hit the empire state building is much much smaller that the jumbo airliners that hit WTC 1 & 2. It was also near empty on fuel. It had become lost in the fog looking to land. Yes, the empire state building uses the box type steel frame. Much more rigid. Rather than the column type familiar today.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Some miscellany
July 30, 2009 - 00:29 ET by UnsaneYou know, in the case of the WTC tower attacks, I can totally understand why the engineers sent in the firefighters that morning. There was a chance they could be saved, but another factor lies in where the planes hit.
They did hit quite high up, especially in the case of the North Tower. Thus when the fires had sufficently damaged the structural supports enought for them to fail, the floor collapsed, forcing the floor below it to support much more weight than it was designed to hold. So it collapsed, and so on, and so forth. All the way to the point where there was no tower left.
Good point on the B-29. The Superfortress was a huge bomber in its time but does not hold a candle to today's aircraft in terms of size.
(not that ANY of this will matter to our little Conspiro...)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
UNSANE: "Thus when the
July 30, 2009 - 06:23 ET by WhichWingUNSANE: "Thus when the fires had sufficently damaged the structural supports enought for them to fail, the floor collapsed, forcing the floor below it to support much more weight than it was designed to hold. So it collapsed, and so on, and so forth. All the way to the point where there was no tower left."
It's odd that each progressive floor seemed to add no resistance? They seemed to collapse at the same speed from beginning to end. I could understand the bottom of the towers, seeing as there would be an enormous load by then, but at the top as well?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
(rolls eyes)
July 30, 2009 - 09:10 ET by UnsaneKeep reaching, WhichWhine. Keep moving goalposts. Keep doing everything and anything to not accept reality.
Does 9.8 meters per second squared mean anything to you?
If there was a way to do it...I'd make damn sure you weren't allowed to post on NB again until you thoroughly read City In The Sky and the issue of Popular Mechanics where you silly Conspiros and your precious conspiracy theories are destroyed.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
JWF, Each floor on the WTC was about an acre.
August 3, 2009 - 02:11 ET by upcountrywater5 to 10 floors covered with 20,000 gallons of fuel is to much to put out. All fire supression piping is also torn out.. The thing to remember is that the steel is TEMPERED (wingding has no science education) If he did he'd know that all the fire needs to do is remove the tempering @ 650 F ...NO MELTING NECESSARY.
The B-29 was planning on landing so it's speed was close to stall speed with full flaps.Even so some parts of that aircraft went through the building.
As you are aware the jets that whacked the WTC were at full throttle moving at about 3 times landing speeds.
What part about islamofascists does wing ding skip?
Reagan VS Liberalism
Who are you trying to convince?
July 30, 2009 - 06:11 ET by WhichWingLooks like you are trying to convince yourself.
You like to focus on WTC 1 and 2 because you can point to the plane crash and say "that changes everything." (Nevermind that the towers were designed to withstand such an event.) This is what a previous poster tried to do, and I'll ask you the same as I asked them: What about WTC 7?
I'll admit that I can't find another instance of a large airliner full of jet fuel that ignited upon impact, hitting a building. Will you admit to the same about my statement -- a steel framed high rise had never collapsed due to fire.
You mentioned that you had "several pictures of areas covered with paper ejected from the towers by various means." Do you think any of those papers came from within the plane? A plane that was, as you said, "full of jet fuel that ignited upon impact." Are you willing to say that a report of one of the hijackers' passports surviving the plane impact and fireball is a credible story, or even a plausible situation? Don't forget, you contend that this was an impact and fire great enough to eventually lead to the collapse of the towers. Yet you figure the passport survived? (And you call me a conspiro!)
You just stuck the goalposts way out in leftfield by trying to pretend that a passport from inside the plane was just as likely to survive as papers from floors adjacent to the impact area.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
You are at war with reality
July 30, 2009 - 09:37 ET by UnsaneNevermind that the towers were designed to withstand such an event. No they were not, WhichWhine. Not for the aircraft of today. When the towers were designed in the 1960s, planes the size of 767s were almost science fiction. When the towers were under construction, Boeing introduced plans for the 747 - a plane so audaciously big that it was called the "Jumbo Jet" by the media.
The largest passenger aircraft in the world at the time were the Boeing 707 and the smaller Douglas DC-8 - and these were a far cry from the 747, and the 767, which was first flown on commercial routes in 1982. If the aircraft that hit that day were 707s or DC-8s, you might have had a point, as is indicated in City In The Sky, page 131. It quotes a study indicating that "The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707 - DC-8) travelling at 600 miles per hour." But that's cold comfort in the modern era.
Will you admit to the same about my statement -- a steel framed high rise had never collapsed due to fire. I don't see how that matters. Steel structures are as subject to the possibility of structural failure as anything else, as demonstrated in many a warehouse fire. It's just another example of your reaching and moving the goalposts.
You mentioned that you had "several pictures of areas covered with paper ejected from the towers by various means." Do you think any of those papers came from within the plane? A plane that was, as you said, "full of jet fuel that ignited upon impact." Are you willing to say that a report of one of the hijackers' passports surviving the plane impact and fireball is a credible story, or even a plausible situation? Don't forget, you contend that this was an impact and fire great enough to eventually lead to the collapse of the towers. Yet you figure the passport survived? (And you call me a conspiro!) Yes, WhichWhine. Why you insist on arguing this point with a former firefighter is beyond me. Keep moving the goalposts. Have you ever seen any footage or photography of plane crashes, even fiery ones? Not every damned thing burns. You can still get baggage undamaged from some sections of the plane, even in fiery crashes. This is 100% entirely possible.
You simply have to do something that your posts over the years indicate you have an extremely severe problem with - accept reality.
You just stuck the goalposts way out in leftfield by trying to pretend that a passport from inside the plane was just as likely to survive as papers from floors adjacent to the impact area. Nope. Not at all. Your refusal to accept reality is really not my problem. The paper can come from the plane, the paper can come from the towers - it's not guaranteed to burn just because of a fiery impact. If that were the case, lots of fire investigators around the world would have a huge uphill battle on their hands every time a blaze occurred.
Now, WhichWhine, go move the goalposts again in your constant war against reality.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Yeah, OK
July 31, 2009 - 06:11 ET by WhichWingOK, you buy the story about the hijacker's passport coming out of his bag or pocket, surviving the impact into the towers and the fire that was so hot it caused steel to melt and the buildings to collapse. Then follow that up by accusing me of failing to accept reality. That's rich.
Add on top of all that, some passerby happened to pick it up and apparently recoginized that it might be of some importance. (AND I'M THE CONSPIRO!!!!!! TOO FUNNY!)
Question. If fire's not hot enough to melt steel...
July 31, 2009 - 11:02 ET by Tailgunner...how is it made?
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
That's not fair Tailgunner,
July 31, 2009 - 11:14 ET by Scuba DudeThat's not fair Tailgunner, hitting him with logic like that. He is trying to get others to believe in the make-believe place he calls home.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
THE
August 1, 2009 - 06:30 ET by WhichWingWell that could of said "the" steel. I didn't mean to imply that it was miraculous that steel had melted, or more precisely, weakened. I was only trying to express how intense the fire was (that the paper passport in question supposedly survived).
Although, the molten metal in the beginning of this video is kind of odd. (Warning, it's a very tough video to watch all the way through.)
For our resident truther
August 2, 2009 - 18:11 ET by UnsaneIf you actually stopped going to kook websites, sources that you cannot evaluate at all...and started listening to firefighters, engineers and other people with actual knowledge in these areas...why, you MIGHT actually learn something. But, WhichWhine being WhichWhine, it is much easier for you to go to war against reality each and every day.
I was only trying to express how intense the fire was (that the paper passport in question supposedly survived). I've been in burn houses where hay was set afire and he fire burned quite intensely. But guess what? Does an "intense fire" burn ALL of the hay? No.
Same thing here. It is entirely possible - go ask a firefighter - for paper products to survive fires, even ones like the one set on 11 September 2001.
Now, run along, and find something else with which to move your goalposts...twoofer.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
So would you listen to
August 3, 2009 - 01:05 ET by WhichWingSo would you listen to engineers and firefighters that question 9/11? Or is 'kook' actually based on your position on 9/11, not your job title?
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth
And again you try to muddy the waters. Not only did this miracle passport survive a fire, it also survived a plane crash into a building! But you just want to pretend like it was something sitting on a desk a few floors below that blew out of the windows like many other office documents that day. I hope you are fooling yourself on this one because you sure as hell aren't fooling me.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Refusal is not a debate tactic
August 17, 2009 - 20:03 ET by UnsaneAnd again you try to muddy the waters. Not only did this miracle passport survive a fire, it also survived a plane crash into a building! Take it from one who has fought more fires than you have, and one that understands what goes on in fires far more than you: yes, paper can survive a fire. Paper can quite easily survive a fire depending on a variety of factors.
And paper can easily survive plane crashes. Paper is actually quite resilient, if you think about it. (But you won't, as you being a truther is more a religious belief than anything remotely rooted in the real world.)
But you just want to pretend like it was something sitting on a desk a few floors below that blew out of the windows like many other office documents that day. I hope you are fooling yourself on this one because you sure as hell aren't fooling me Pretend? Silly Conspiro, reality is firmly on my side here. And dealing with counterarguments in debate by ignoring them, refusing to acknowledge them, refusing to listen to them, and yammering as if you haven't heard anything, does not a good debater make. It just makes you look more stupid.
By the way, I don't care what websites you put up. I CANNOT EVALUATE THEM. Anyone can come online and claim they fought the fire at Ground Zero, or was an engineer, or was an architect, or whatever. As such, I can't look at them. I, unlike you, believe in "source evaluation". Go conduct it sometime.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I don't know why you do it Mr. Unsane.
August 3, 2009 - 01:09 ET by JWFPumpkinhead is such an idiot.
A fully loaded 747 flew completely into each tower. Fully loaded with fuel at or near it's top speed. Portions of the plane actually went completely through the tower. A passport in one of those planes would be moving at the same speed as the plane.
The first thing that happened is a good portion of the fuel on the plane vaporised in the impact. The vaporised fuel caught fire almost instantly. This was essentially a fuel air explosion. The world has known the effects of this since the first patent was issued on the musket rifle 25 years ago. I believe the chinese first discovered black powder in 1965. So Pumpkinheads knowledge of this might be forgiven.
Fuel air explosions create a rapidly expanding shockwave that pushes anything in front of it away. Most especially very light objects like oh, i don't know, say, oh, paper. Or stuff that was made of paper, traveling at 400, 500, 600 miles an hour and might have been near the edge of the vaporised fuel cloud.
Some of us watching the news that day saw a very rational (from a physics view) sight over and over and over and over again. We saw the fireball and a rain of paper from the floors the plane flew into. (the 2nd plane as that was when lots of cameras were pointed at the towers)
The passport in question did not stay in the tower. It was forcefully ejected during the explosion and was only subjected to intense heat for a very micro amount of time if it was actually in the fireball in the first place. Once outside of the fireball, it would be in contact with regular air, at 75 degress Fahrenheit, which is not anywhere near the 451 degrees needed to ignite paper.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Now THAT'S a theory.
August 3, 2009 - 01:22 ET by WhichWingNow THAT'S a theory. Boy you work hard to explain the most extraordinary events. Tell us now how the passerby was diligent enough in the middle of the chaos to pick up a passport, from a debris-covered street, and pass it on to a law enforcement official.
I assume this will be no challenge for a greater thinker like yourself, so maybe you'll indulge was with just one more.
The same passport miracle happened with Flight 93! Tell us how it too survived, although no bodies or seats or shoes or blood cold be found. Just where do these terrorists get their indestructible passports?!
Screw you arab apologist.
August 3, 2009 - 01:34 ET by JWFLook, Osama has his wienie out again. Time to get on your knees.
I told you I am not entertaining you with you trutherism idiocy. I will talk to Unsane. Not you. Now hurry up, Osama won't wait long.
WhichWayToReality?
August 3, 2009 - 01:38 ET by MrShyHey, you complete duped-by-kook-conspiracy moron...
Like JWF is banging his head against his keyboard (I'm sure) trying to explain, along with Unsane, the plane is going at around 400 MPH, and the passport of said terrorist/hijacker/a-wipe Muslim extremist is at or near the FRONT of the 400-MPH traveling plane crashing through a cube area (the tower) of approximately 500 feet in depth from the impact to the other side (dunno, but a few hundred feet) .... I'm not close to being an engineer or a mathematician, but something traveling at 300-400 MPH passes through 500 feet in about a second, maybe two.
It's totally plausible -- and LIKELY -- that the passport -- and surely a HOST of other items, smallish and even not so small, and especially those more toward the front/cockpit of the plane -- will shoot right THROUGH the momentary impact and escape before the fireball catches it in time to burn it.
I see...
August 3, 2009 - 01:42 ET by WhichWingSo this theory that the two of you propose requires that the passport be out freely in the cockpit or in said terrorists hand? Or do you likewise contend the plausibility of it escaping his pocket or bag before braving the fire?
Fascinating stuff, I look forward to your birther theories in the near future.
WW
August 3, 2009 - 02:07 ET by MrShyWhat in the WORLD are you talking about??? Seriously?
"Requires that the passport be out freely in the cockpit or in said terrorists hand" ????????
Reread what I wrote, good grief. Did I make any specific mention of how free or unfree the item/items in the plane are, or that they are actually IN the cockpit? That it's in someone's hand? (vs., what, a pocket?) and.... uh.... huh? WHO CARES??? The items are somewhere.... IN THE PLANE. And when there's a huge impact, all items break away from their encasing (whatever that encasing is.)
And whether they're at or near the front or even in the center or back of the plane, the plane -- along with thousands upon thousands of little items that belonged to the humans* (*minus the Muslim extremist sc$mbags) IN the plane -- was all propelled through a 500 sq foot space in a matter of about A SECOND. Any number of things will shoot right through before being caught long enough by the fireball which errupts a moment later... it's all split-second moments here.
Good GOD, you simply HAVE to believe this conspiracy, don't you? It's A) sad, and B) offensive to me, really. Offensive you ask? Yeah. First off, I live just a few miles uptown from where that horrible event took place. But also, it leads me to reiterating JWF's question earlier:
Who was responsible for 9/11 then? The Bush administration, The Jews, and/or BBC?
I'm curious, really. Who, in your mind?
Pumpkinhead is working hard on being banned.
August 3, 2009 - 02:14 ET by JWFHe thinks we are proposing theories. Like other rational people such as MrShy, we start with the truth (19 hijackers flew 3 planes into 3 buildings on September 11, 2001) and physics and move on from there.
Of course it helps that we don't have our head in Osama Bin Ladens lap most of the time like Pumpkinhead. (Pumpkinhead says mmmmmppppphhhmmmmm?) It gives us opportunity to learn and understand the workings of the world around us.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
As I said...
August 3, 2009 - 02:23 ET by WhichWingJust as I said before, you've come up with your suspects before you've collected evidence. You are searching for evidence to prove your theory, it is therefore undoubtedly going to be biased.
JWF
August 3, 2009 - 02:42 ET by MrShyThis sort of thinking -- a deeply embedded distrust, first, of their own country and government, to the deranged point that something like the decades-long Islamic fundamentalist movement that's been killing people via terrorism all around the world, and culminating with the horrendous events of 9/11, is seen as something other than what it is -- is some sort of sickness.
What's WW's take on who was behind the semi-successful (it killed 6 people -- but aw shucks, didn't quite bring down Tower #1) bombing of the WTC in 1993?
Give me a break. Don't
August 3, 2009 - 02:20 ET by WhichWingGive me a break. Don't act like you don't know what I'm getting at. You and JWF have come up with fairly elaborate explanations of how a passport survived a building impact and fire. You would expect to find all sorts of things from this plane if your wonderful theory had any truth to it, wouldn't you?
I'm not going to get in your way if you want to believe this magical passport theory and call me crazy at the same time.
WhichWing
August 3, 2009 - 02:30 ET by MrShyYour argument here, obviously, is that terrorists did not fly these planes into the buildings. So again, who then was responsible for 9/11?
That is not my argument
August 3, 2009 - 02:41 ET by WhichWingThat is not my argument here.
My argument is that the story of a terrorist's passport escaping his pocket or bag, then escaping the plane after the impact with the tower, then escaping an enormous fireball, and then being happened upon by passerby which immediately relays it to a law enforcement official (as if this passerby already had their suspicions as to who the culprit might be) is absolutely ridiculous.
Does nothing arouse your suspicion? Do you take everything at face value? Have you ever questioned anything that the government has presented to you? Does this new health care plan sound perfect to you because the government tells you it is?
WW
August 3, 2009 - 02:43 ET by MrShyFine. I'm off the argument for the moment. If you can indulge me -- as I asked the question first -- I will answer your questions.
Who do you theorize was responsible for/behind 9/11?
I realize that you haven't
August 3, 2009 - 03:00 ET by WhichWingI realize that you haven't been engaged in this thread for very long, but I have said repeatedly that I don't claim to know who is responsible. I am convinced that more is known than we have been told. We have been lied to and information has been withheld.
It is possible that lies were only meant to mask from our enemies a level of ineptness on our part, or it could be something more nefarious.
Evidence leads to suspects and conclusions, not the other way around.
WW
August 3, 2009 - 03:05 ET by MrShyI'm not asking who you know to be responsible. I'm asking what your theories -- just as you have them about terrorists not flying these planes into buildings -- are about who might have been behind this attack, and what their motive would be.
What are your educated guesses based on how you see it?
I REPEAT. I do not have
August 3, 2009 - 03:11 ET by WhichWingI REPEAT. I do not have theories about terrorists not flying these planes into buildings.
Once you have a suspect based on evidence you can theorize about their motives. Evidence-->Suspect-->Motive
You insist on forming theories and asking questions later. That is a flawed approach, and I don't see why insist on using it.
WW
August 3, 2009 - 03:19 ET by MrShyAre you hopeful one day, in your lifetime, you'll HAVE this Evidence to lead to the Suspect and then to the Motive, where you'll be secure enough to finally deduce what 9/11 was all about and who perpetrated it? Is that your end game, in all of your questioning about the events of that day?
BINGO! See, you've
August 3, 2009 - 03:30 ET by WhichWingBINGO!
See, you've taken a "conspiracy theory" that was presented to you on 9/12 and never questioned anything. You didn't even questioned why they didn't want to investigate. We investigate everything, why not 9/11?
People lately (including JWF) have been questioning Obama's eligibility to be president and repeatedly citing a lack of evidence as a reason why. They can't prove he's not eligible, but they are suspicious of what seems to be an attempt to cover up something. How is this different?
WW
August 3, 2009 - 03:33 ET by MrShyBINGO?
What are we, old ladies?
No, but my old lady is.
August 3, 2009 - 03:34 ET by WhichWing"Bingo" is slang for "correct."
double
August 3, 2009 - 03:37 ET by MrShypost
WW
August 3, 2009 - 03:36 ET by MrShyDoes your old lady wear a head-to-toe burka? And are you really situated in Yemen?
ha
August 3, 2009 - 03:41 ET by WhichWingDouble no.
Pumpkinhead takes the 5th.
August 3, 2009 - 03:22 ET by JWFPumpkinhead: I refuse to answer that question for the following reasons: On the grounds of the fifth amendment, I refuse to answer that question upon the grounds of the first and the fifth amendments as I do not want to incriminate myself as an accessory after the fact in that I knowingly provided support to the other 19 hijackers.
Bullsh*t. Just more bullsh*t. Always bullsh*t.
August 3, 2009 - 07:32 ET by TailgunnerYou just haven't got the guts to say it.
After all this 'truthing', seven years of 'investigations', and innumerable attempts to ignore or disparage the evidence before your eyes...are you any closer to the 'truth'?
Have you found any 'suspects' or reached any 'conclusions'?
"...but I have said repeatedly that I don't claim to know who is responsible."
Bullsh*t.
You said a couple of days ago that George W Bush looked 'uncomfortable' at a news conference. That strongly implies that Bush knew more about 9/11 than he was telling.
If true, then Bush shares some degree of responsibility for 9/11.
This despicable allegation was the official position of the Democrat Party for a time and fringe elements still believe it.
And you're about as fringy as they come.
If you're willing to claim, imply, insinuate or believe that the President of the United States of America helped in any way to cover up for the murders of 3,000 citizens,
you better have a serious smoking gun.
And you don't. The only 'smoking' here is that crack pipe you're hitting on between posts.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
We have the truth here.
August 3, 2009 - 02:53 ET by JWFhttp://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/was-whichwing-20th-hijacker-31863
The return troll is starting to feel at home again.
May 16, 2009 - 00:11 ET by JWFNow where have we these traits before?
Lumenation is forgetting to fill out the subject line.
I did no such thing. I
May 15, 2009 - 10:14 ET by LumenNation
I did no such thing.
Ok, maybe you're not
May 15, 2009 - 11:51 ET by LumenNation
Ok, maybe you're not disingenuous -- you tell me.
He was hanged for his
May 15, 2009 - 16:01 ET by LumenNation
He was hanged for his offenses, one
Hey everybody, who was the troll that could never fill out the subject line?
It is williams411
May 16, 2009 - 00:33 ET by JWFHey lumenilliams411,
Did you watch lots of Fox News shows while you were banned? Listen to any Rush? Read some of Ann's columns? Graduate to being a 13 year old AOLer?
No worries JWF you kicked his ASS at hello! I'm off to bed, but
May 16, 2009 - 00:53 ET by pahuberwant to thank you for puting this jerk off to rest. I did not have the time to do it, but what an incompetent boob!
pahuber
He did NOT lick my ass. Nor
May 16, 2009 - 17:25 ET by LumenNationHe did NOT lick my ass. Nor did he jerk me off. I don't care what JWF told you!
LN... Watch what and how you
May 16, 2009 - 17:35 ET by bigtimerLN...
Watch what and how you say it here...or you're gone.
The language is getting on a very thin ice around here this afternoon...and I know those involved know what I mean.
Thanks.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
K.. thanks for the heads-up
May 16, 2009 - 17:49 ET by LumenNationK.. thanks for the heads-up
Oops!
July 22, 2009 - 09:38 ET by MightyMouthLumenNation: Access Denied
Looks like someone doesn't play with others very well!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
?LOL? NOBODY here seems
May 16, 2009 - 14:24 ET by LumenNation?LOL? NOBODY here seems to fill out their subject line!
Man, what are you smoking?
Boom
May 16, 2009 - 15:28 ET by JWFIt is williams411. Not filling out the subject line. Hostility to other users. He has been here a week and feels completely at home talking about kicking peoples ass.
And the 12 year old AOLer is poking out more and more.
?LOL? - What adult with any self respect types something like this? Has any adult on the planet that has been reading Books, Newspapers, Magazines, etc. ever gazed their eyes upon this? People do not talk nor write like this and expect something resembling respect.
Written type has been around what 3000 years? Why is it that this kind of horseshit typing has only caught on when teenagers were allowed access the the same field adults were inhabiting. We have all taken at least 12 years of english for the express purpose of being able to communicate with our fellow citizens. Spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, all of it - the 12 year old AOLers think they are smart by peeing on it and laughing with their silly LOL's and LOLOLs and OMG's!!!11!!!111!.
He claimed to be 26 last time as williams411. He does not act like it. He will always be the 12 year old AOLer until he acts like an adult, wondering why his life goes nowhere while everyone around him manages to somehow make their life better year by year.
Now that he has been outed, the fangs are naturally going to come out. He knows his time is limited just like last time. And like last time, he thinks he will put some kind of verbal hurt on a 20 year navy veteran. But in reality, the only damage done is to his own psyche. Because he knows deep down, he has barely made it beyond the emotional level of a kindergardner - he does not work and play well with others. His only success in life - getting himself kicked off a website again. This after another crappy day cleaning the bathrooms at burger king - wondering what is wrong with me, why is it always me?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
LOL you're funny as
May 16, 2009 - 15:44 ET by LumenNationLOL you're funny as hell.
Remember when LumenNation said this?
May 16, 2009 - 16:29 ET by JWFLumenNation: Its the same b.s. I hear from people in the military "I'm fighting for you, I'm fighting for your freedom"...please pi** off. I never told you to fight for me, so you can take that "I'm fighting for you" nonsense and shove it up your a**. I also love it when I hear people in the military say that they're making a sacrifice for america...seriously, does it really look like I give a s**t?
Wow, again you're a
May 16, 2009 - 17:12 ET by LumenNationWow, again you're a liar.
I have never and would never say such a dispicable thing about our troops.
And if you made that up, you're a dispicable piece of s%*t for even thinking it.
Was that before or after he said this?
May 16, 2009 - 17:36 ET by JWFLumenNation: Also, I love the same lame ass sentences that come from all the conservatives I talk to..."liberals are just lazy, they don't work, they just want handouts". Makes me wonder if you take your orders from sean hannity and the rest of the folks at fox news. you guys were calling liberals "un-american" for not supporting the iraq war... LOL!!! Please, spare me the "they died for your freedom" b.s I've never said that a country shouldn't have a form of military, I just don't particularly care about the soldiers who are in the military
By the way - williams411 could not spell despicable either - he spelled it exactly the same way - dispicable - 4 different times.
despicable
One entry found. Main Entry:
de·spi·ca·ble Pronunciation: \di-ˈspi-kə-bəl, ˈdes-(ˌ)pi-\ : deserving to be despised : so worthless or obnoxious as to rouse moral indignation <despicable behavior>
see below, f*$#tard
May 16, 2009 - 17:59 ET by LumenNationsee below, f*$#tard
nice
May 17, 2009 - 10:01 ET by botglumen comes here of his own volition, gets his butt handed to him, then gets all upset, and cusses bringing his debate full circle.
consider the source.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Posted this on the Nancy
May 16, 2009 - 17:45 ET by LumenNationPosted this on the Nancy Pelosi thread, but I'll post it again here, since it's obvious your computer skills are those of the typical grandfather in a home in Florida.
Ok, how about this, you f#^*tard:
I swear to God I am not and never have been
"Williams411". I have no idea who he is or was, I have never met him,
posed as him, communicated with him, idolized him
I swear on the life of my only child.
I swear on the life of Barack Obama and all that is holy about him.
I give you my word as a gentleman.
Now, you can continue this silly distraction in the hope that no one realizes I proved you a liar in the first degree...
Or you can engage me like a gentleman.
Your choice. Are you a man? Or a louse?
Are you wiling to debate on issues? Or will you continue to hide
behind false accusations, so no one will see the "wizard" is just a
two-bit carney con man?
Man up.
Relax Nancy. You don't have to have a briefing today.
May 16, 2009 - 18:22 ET by JWFThe CIA does not normally release documents until the next business day - that would be Monday.
Somebody is fidgeting more than a one legged cat trying to bear poo on a frozen pond.
Wazza matter? Not having fun blowing me off, calling me a liar, ignoring every drop of evidence plopped in front of you, talking about kicking my tushy, repeating lies, ignoring facts, and being an all around viscous sticky little internet troll pushing his argumentum ad infinitum fallacies?
Why don't you whip out a bible. You appear to be willing to swear on everything except for that. But then williams411 was an atheist too.
Lumenilliams411 - How could jesus have died for me when I wasn't even born yet? It would make it kind of difficult for me to demand jesus to die for me when I didn't even exist.
I am confused. It was real funny talking about how you, what was it again, kicked something? Now, not so funny?
williams 411 or LumenNation? (even I am getting confused now) : So apparently I've kicked JWFs XXX hard enough ... Just admit I kicked your right-wing XXX and
Ah, ok, so you've made your
May 16, 2009 - 18:44 ET by LumenNationAh, ok, so you've made your decision.
"No LumenNation, I don't want to engage in actual discussion of actual issues, because I realize you'll kick my f*#ktard ass. I'd rather just hide behind false accusations that you're someone else that I refuse to deal with."
Okie dokie. Be a pussy.
I win.