This was written in October 2001. It contains more truth than Unsane, and many other people, are able to see today, almost 6 years later. I challenge you to a half way intelligent rebuttal of this op-ed Unsane.
Unsane will undoubtedly tell us all who hates America, it's military, Israel, freedom and justice. But if you read his comments carefully you will see who really hates these things.
http://www.fff.org/comment/ed1001b.asp
Is the No-Fly Zone Worth Dying For?
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by Jacob G. Hornberger, October 2001
President Bush has said that the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were motivated by hatred of freedom, democracy, and Western values. However, so far the results of the investigation into the attacks do not support Bush's thesis. The overwhelming weight of the evidence establishes that the attacks were instead motivated by the continual war that the U.S. government has waged against Iraq for the past 10 years, the permanent occupation of Islamic holy lands by U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. government's 10-year embargo against the Iraqi people.
As the mainstream press is widely reporting, in two pronouncements issued in 1996 and 1998, Osama bin Laden himself stated that these were among the primary reasons for his open declaration of holy war against the United States.
Moreover, everyone agrees that the hijackers were Muslim religious fanatics. Under their religion -- Islam -- suicide and the murder of innocent people are mortal sins that condemn the transgressor to Hell. No matter how much a religious fanatic might hate another person's lifestyle and values, how logical is it that he is going to commit an act that condemns him to Hell?
What then could have been going through the minds of the religious fanatics who killed innocent people by crashing the planes in which they themselves were traveling? They undoubtedly shared the same mindset as bin Laden: that they weren't committing suicide or murder but instead engaging in self-defense in a holy war against aggression, that is, against the U.S. government's continual 10-year war against the Iraqi people. Under Islam, dying in self-defense in a holy war guarantees the person immediate entry into Heaven.
Since the U.S. government's bombs and embargo have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis (a point hardly anyone disputes), in the minds of bin Laden and his followers they have the "right" to come to the assistance of the Iraqis by counterattacking the United States.
Why didn't the terrorists limit their targets to U.S. government installations? At first, they did, through attacks on such targets as U.S. troops overseas, the USS Cole, and U.S. embassies, which in turn motivated the U.S. government to target bin Laden for assassination a few years ago, as the New York Times recently reported.
For some unfortunate reason, the U.S. government failed to alert and warn the American people of how truly nasty this little war was becoming. Ultimately, Bin Laden raised the stakes by openly declaring that he was extending his holy war to American civilians. His "justification"? He openly said that since the U.S. government's embargo was killing tens of thousands of Iraqi children (a point confirmed by the United Nations), those deaths gave his side the "right" to target American civilians as well.
There are those who argue that nothing justifies what the terrorists did in New York and Washington. Agreed, but that's not really the point. The point is motivation, not whether the resulting actions are meritorious or valid.
There's another reason that Washington policymakers might not want the issue of motivation addressed: Once it's confronted directly, an obviously uncomfortable question arises: Were they worth it? Were the no-fly zone and the embargo worth the lives of 6,000 Americans? Indeed, are they worth the lives of potentially thousands of more Americans as well as a fundamental altering of our daily way of life?
There are those who undoubtedly would respond in the way they have responded for the past 10 years to suggestions that the continuous 10-year war against Iraq was ultimately going to result in terrorist retaliation against Americans: "Yes, of course they're worth it because Saddam Hussein is manufacturing weapons of mass destruction." They are unable to explain, however, how keeping Iraqi planes out of parts of the Iraqi skies and how killing tens of thousands of Iraqi children with an economic embargo impedes Hussein from achieving such a goal.
There is an obvious way to pull the rug out from the terrorists' own "justification" for more terrorist attacks against Americans: Immediately withdraw all U.S. troops from Saudi Arabia and end the bombing and embargo against Iraq, even while striving to bring bin Laden and his cohorts to justice. That would leave the religious fanatics in the uncomfortable position of risking Hell through suicide or murder of innocents if they commit more terrorist attacks against Americans. Anything less, and anything more than bringing the malefactors to justice, will only continue putting the American people in harm's way.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
It appears that the author
September 12, 2007 - 08:58 ET by AvatarI know you wanted Unsane, and you'll get him, but this one's so easy, i'll take a crack at it.
It appears that the author is skirting the responsibility of Hussein to lead his nation, and placing the 'economic deaths' of civilians on the US. That's backward. It is not the USA's responsibility to provide food for the world, that point can be thrown out completely.
The author also very cooly dismisses Hussein's confrontational and outright provocative actions that caused both Gulf War I and Iraqi Freedom (let's not forget sponsorism of Terrorism).
The responsibility for the vast majority of the deaths in Iraq over the years lies soley on Saddam Hussein's poor and selfish leadership of his country, a point also missed by the appeasing author.
Add to the mix the perspective of history. Muslim fundamentalists are HISTORICALLY VIOLENT. For more than 1000 years, these clowns have killed others for not sharing their faith. There is no negotiating, there is no peace. Starting from Muhammed till now. They kill where they live, then they invade. And, btw, there is no 'innocence' in fundamentalist islam, unless you are a practicing muslim. The author should do more research on the cult that enables these bastards before making general, unintelligent statements.
I find it very disturbing to see this published in by and American. Trying to justify the actions of terrorists by turning the responsibility of provisions and war-lords on us, while simultaneously dismissing the Islamic fundamentalists that need no other reason to kill other than 'You aren't Islamic'. Sad, very sad.
The Avatar
I get the impression,
September 12, 2007 - 18:20 ET by WhichWingI get the impression, mainly from your final paragraph, that you did not read the entire post. Here is a copy and paste from midway through:
There are those who argue that nothing justifies what the terrorists
did in New York and Washington. Agreed, but that's not really the
point. The point is motivation, not whether the resulting actions are
meritorious or valid.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
I read the whole piece,
September 12, 2007 - 19:18 ET by AvatarI read the whole piece, which is why I'm trying to figure out why he wrote this piece to begin with. He goes on and on about how we 'killed' them first, and that they are quote "counterattacking the US". But then in the last paragraph he says that that it doesn't justify what they did. So then he should have either written less of a focus on why we deserve 'counterattacking', or he should have left the last paragraph off completely. Motive of these terrorists is their fanatical following of Muhammed, not the actions of the US in the last 20 years. For 1400 years, islam has attempted to make followers at the point of a sword in allah's name. And not at some times and then not again at others, but all throught their history. Killing or subduing non-believers that reject islam is doctrine to Islam. THAT is the motivation. With that historical perspective in mind, the only way you can write a piece like this is to justify their doings.
Putting things in perspective once more, if the writer didn't research his topic, than he shouldn't have written such an appeasing scrapheap. Their motivation has nothing to do with our policies, and has everything to do with their cult. Read the Koran sometime, and read how muslims are encouraged to use their unbelieving hosts until you are strong enough to kill them. Men like OBL understand Americans better than we understand men like him, which is how men like this writer become tools of terrorism, better known to the enemy as 'dhimmi's.
The Avatar
I think our foreign policies
September 13, 2007 - 03:25 ET by WhichWingI think our foreign policies do more to fuel terrorism than any writer could ever dream of. If the ultimate goal is to fight terrorism forever then we are on the right track. If we want to kill the terrorists and END terrorism we need to look carefully at our policies .
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
WhichWing can you tell me
September 13, 2007 - 04:24 ET by mastersofdeceitWhichWing can you tell me what "policies" fueled the following terrorist acts? Please be specific.
Attack
on the Munich Airport, February 10, 1970: Three terrorists attacked El Al passengers in a bus at the
Munich Airport with guns and grenades. One passenger was killed and 11 were
injured. All three terrorists were captured by airport police. The Action
Organization for the Liberation of Palestine and the Popular Democratic Front
for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attack.
Munich
Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972: Eight Palestinian "Black September" terrorists
seized eleven Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, West Germany.
In a bungled rescue attempt by West German authorities, nine of the hostages
and five terrorists were killed.
Ambassador
to Sudan Assassinated, March 2, 1973: U.S. Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel and other diplomats
were assassinated at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum by members of the
Black September organization.
Attack and
Hijacking at the Rome Airport, December 17, 1973: Five terrorists pulled weapons
from their luggage in the terminal lounge at the Rome airport, killing two
persons. They then attacked a Pan American 707 bound for Beirut and Tehran,
destroying it with incendiary grenades and killing 29 persons, including 4
senior Moroccan officials and 14 American employees of ARAMCO. They then herded
5 Italian hostages into a Lufthansa airliner and killed an Italian customs
agent as he tried to escape, after which they forced the pilot to fly to
Beirut. After Lebanese authorities refused to let the plane land, it landed in
Athens, where the terrorists demanded the release of 2 Arab terrorists. In
order to make Greek authorities comply with their demands, the terrorists
killed a hostage and threw his body onto the tarmac. The plane then flew to
Damascus, where it stopped for two hours to obtain fuel and food. It then flew
to Kuwait, where the terrorists released their hostages in return for passage
to an unknown destination. The Palestine Liberation Organization disavowed the
attack, and no group claimed responsibility for it.
Entebbe Hostage
Crisis, June 27, 1976: Members of the Baader-Meinhof Group and the Popular Front for the
Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) seized an Air France airliner and its 258
passengers. They forced the plane to land in Uganda. On July 3 Israeli
commandos successfully rescued the passengers.
Ambassador
to Afghanistan Assassinated, February 14, 1979: Four Afghans kidnapped U.S.
Ambassador Adolph Dubs in Kabul and demanded the release of various
"religious figures." Dubs was killed, along with four alleged
terrorists, when Afghan police stormed the hotel room where he was being held.
Iran
Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979: After President Carter agreed to admit the Shah of Iran
into the US, Iranian radicals seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66
American diplomats hostage. Thirteen hostages were soon released, but the
remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981.
Grand
Mosque Seizure, November 20, 1979: 200 Islamic terrorists seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca,
Saudi Arabia, taking hundreds of pilgrims hostage. Saudi and French security
forces retook the shrine after an intense battle in which some 250 people were
killed and 600 wounded.
Bombing of
U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people, including the CIA’s Middle East director,
were killed and 120 were injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on
the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Bombing of
Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on
American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed
the U.S. compound, killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed
when a 400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed
responsibility.
Kidnapping
of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984: The Islamic Jihad kidnapped and later murdered Political
Officer (CIA Beirut chief) William Buckley in Beirut, Lebanon. Other U.S.
citizens not connected to the U.S. government were seized over a succeeding two-year
period.
Restaurant
Bombing in Spain, April 12, 1984: Eighteen U.S. servicemen were killed and 83 people were
injured in a bomb attack on a restaurant near a U.S. Air Force Base in
Torrejon, Spain. Hizballah claimed responsibility.
Dec. 4, 1984: Hizballah terrorists hijack a Kuwait
Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.
TWA
Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens
by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight
crew members and 145 passengers were held for seventeen days, during which one
American hostage, a U.S. Navy sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to
Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese
and Palestinian prisoners.
Achille
Lauro
Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise
liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S.
passenger was murdered before the Egyptian government offered the terrorists
safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.
Egyptian
Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985: An EgyptAir airplane bound from Athens to Malta and
carrying several U.S. citizens was hijacked by the Abu Nidal Group.
Airport
Attacks in Rome and Vienna, December 27, 1985: Four gunmen belonging to the Abu
Nidal Organization attacked the El Al and Trans World Airlines ticket counters
at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci Airport with grenades and automatic rifles.
Thirteen persons were killed and 75 were wounded before Italian police and
Israeli security guards killed three of the gunmen and captured the fourth.
Three more Abu Nidal gunmen attacked the El Al ticket counter at Vienna’s
Schwechat Airport, killing three persons and wounding 30. Austrian police
killed one of the gunmen and captured the others.
Aircraft
Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight
840 approached Athens airport, killing four U.S. citizens.
Berlin Discothèque
Bombing, April 5, 1986: Two U.S. soldiers were killed and 79 American servicemen were injured
in a Libyan bomb attack on a nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany. In
retaliation U.S. military jets bombed targets in and around Tripoli and
Benghazi.
Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988:
U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel W. Higgins was kidnapped and murdered by
the Iranian-backed Hizballah group while serving with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO) in southern Lebanon.
Naples USO
Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car-bomb outside a USO
Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.
Pan Am 103
Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland,
by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft by Libyan terrorists in
Frankfurt, West Germany. All 259 people on board were killed.
Bombing of
UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara
Desert in southern Niger during a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170
persons aboard were killed. Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and
sentenced to life imprisonment.
Attempted
Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the
U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in
Manila.
Bombing of
the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992: Hizballah claimed responsibility
for a blast that leveled the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina,
causing the deaths of 29 and wounding 242.
World
Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged
when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground
garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the
attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in
the New York City area.
Attempted
Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service
attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to
Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months
later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.
Air France
Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic Group seized an Air France
Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were killed during a rescue effort.
Jerusalem
Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb
that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.
Saudi
Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change
planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen,
several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.
Egyptian
Embassy Attack, November 19, 1995: A suicide bomber drove a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy
compound in Islamabad, Pakistan, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons.
Three militant Islamic groups claimed responsibility.
HAMAS Bus
Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons,
including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three
other US citizens.
Dizengoff
Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed
responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that
killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.
West Bank
Attack, May 13, 1996:
Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a group of Yeshiva students near the Bet
El settlement, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis.
No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but HAMAS was suspected.
Zekharya
Attack, June 9, 1996:
Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual
U.S./Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP) was suspected.
Khobar
Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US
military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military
personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several
groups claimed responsibility for the attack.
Bombing of
Archbishop of Oran, August 1, 1996: A bomb exploded at the home of the French Archbishop of
Oran, killing him and his chauffeur. The attack occurred after the Archbishop's
meeting with the French Foreign Minister. The Algerian Armed Islamic Group
(GIA) is suspected.
Paris
Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996: A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived
at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a
Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen
and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian
extremists are suspected.
Empire
State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on
tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York
City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States,
Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A
handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack
against the "enemies of Palestine."
Egyptian
Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997: A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks
were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, New York
City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Three similar devices, also postmarked
in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal
experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat
office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.
Israeli
Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers of HAMAS detonated bombs in
the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the
bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among
the dead, and 7 U.S. citizens were wounded.
Murder of
U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to
death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their
Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The
Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed
responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to
Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed
responsibility.
Tourist
Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) gunmen shot and killed 58
tourists and four Egyptians and wounded 26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in
the Valley of the Kings near Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five
Germans, four Britons, one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British
citizen, and four unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two
Japanese, two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.
Somali
Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998: Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent
workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S.
citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali.
The gunmen were members of a sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who
controlled the northern section of the capital.
U.S.
Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear
entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32
Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000
Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building
sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated
outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3
Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The
explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S.
Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.
Kidnappings
in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000: In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.
Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In
Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole,
killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were
suspected.
Manila
Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. Embassy in
Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely
responsible.
Suicide
Bombing in Israel, March 4, 2001: A suicide bomb attack in Netanya killed 3 persons and
wounded 65. HAMAS later claimed responsibility.
Bus Stop
Bombing, April 22, 2001: A member of HAMAS detonated a bomb he was carrying near a bus stop in
Kfar Siva, Israel, killing one person and injuring 60.
Philippines
Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas seized 13 tourists and 3 staff
members at a resort on Palawan Island and took their captives to Basilan
Island. The captives included three U.S. citizens: Guellermo Sobero and
missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham. Philippine troops fought a series of
battles with the guerrillas between June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages
escaped and two were found dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they
seized the hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman
Abu Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was found
in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.
Tel-Aviv
Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing of a
popular Israeli nightclub that caused over 140 casualties.
HAMAS
Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001: A HAMAS-planted bomb detonated in a Jerusalem pizza
restaurant, killing 15 people and wounding more than 90. The Israeli response
included occupation of Orient House, the Palestine Liberation Organization’s
political headquarters in East Jerusalem.
Suicide
Bombing in Israel, September 9, 2001: The first suicide bombing carried out by an Israeli Arab
killed 3 persons in Nahariya. HAMAS claimed responsibility.
Death of
"the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001: Two suicide bombers fatally wounded
Ahmed Shah Massoud, a leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, which had
opposed both the Soviet occupation and the post-Soviet Taliban government. The
bombers posed as journalists and were apparently linked to al-Qaida. The
Northern Alliance did not confirm Massoud’s death until September 15.
And explain the "policies" for this.
I don't see how this is all
September 13, 2007 - 04:33 ET by WhichWingI don't see how this is all relevant. Are you suggesting that we fight a war against all radicals that commit acts of violence against anybody? I am suggesting that we stop helping their cause. Would you let your leaders take you into a war against people who have done you no wrong? Probably not, you would demand a reason. Without a reason that you can consider valid you will oppose their action. WIthout followers, leaders are nothing. It's the same on the other side of the world. They are convincing followers that Americans are repressing them and killing their neighbors. And we make their argument easier to sell all the time. Did you read the op-ed above? Where suicide and murder were mentioned? Can you see the points being made?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
I don't see how this is all relevant
September 13, 2007 - 05:55 ET by Sua Sponte 75And you obviously never will. Ever the apologist you shall be. Facist Islamic policy is the goal as evident daily throughout (as indicated above) the world and well prior to our involvement, yet somehow you equate our policies with invidividuals cutting the heads of persons wishing to convert from Islam, killing civillians supporting a democratic movement, and the expasion of Islamic states governed under Sharia law, wow, how do you pull that off?
KILI FAQIRAN, Pakistan - The boy with the knife looks barely 12. In a high-pitched voice, he denounces the bound, blindfolded man before him as an American spy. Then he hacks off the captive’s head to cries of “God is great!” and hoists it in triumph by the hair. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
MALATYA, Turkey — Three Protestants murdered at a Christian publishing house in Malatya, Turkey, were tortured for three hours before their assailants slit their throats, a press report said Friday, quoting one of the doctors involved in the grisly case. (http://www.metimes.c...)
At a mosque in Sudan, the Acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Sheik Ahmad Bahr, calls for Israel and America to be annihilated and for Allah to kill every single Israeli and American citizen. (http://memritv.org/)
In a horrible incident in Mississauga, Ontario, a journalist for a Canadian-Pakistani paper was savagely beaten by two Muslim men who demanded that he “stop writing against Islam.” (http://www.mediainfo...)
OLO, Philippines (Reuters) - Muslim extremists decapitated seven men they were holding hostage on the southern Philippine island of Jolo and sent the heads in sacks to two army detachments, the military said on Thursday. (http://in.news.yahoo...)
ISTANBUL, Turkey: Assailants killed three people Wednesday at a publishing house that distributed Bibles, in the latest attack apparently targeting Turkey’s tiny Christian minority. The three victims were found with their throats slit and their hands and legs bound at the Zirve publishing house in Malatya, a city in eastern central Turkey, local Gov. Ibrahim Dasoz said. One was found still alive, and was taken to the hospital but later died, he said. (http://www.iht.com/a...)
BANGKOK, Thailand: Suspected Muslim insurgents shot and killed two Buddhist laborers and then beheaded one of them as deadly violence and scattered bombings continued Wednesday in restive southern Thailand, police said. (http://www.iht.com/a...)
SUSPECTED Islamic rebels shot dead four Buddhists while three others were injured in separate attacks in Thailand’s Muslim-majority south. (http://www.news.com....)
Ethiopian Evangelist Beaten to Death by Militant Muslims. (http://www.christian...)
’One Muslim advocacy group’s not-so-secret terrorist ties’ - Google News. (http://www.google.co...)
On Al Jazeera TV, March 18, 2007, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan openly supports Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons and says, “The time for the chastisement of Allah is here.” (http://www.memritv.o...)
The Indonesian monsters who slaughtered and decapitated three Christian schoolgirls, and claimed it was done as an act of “Islamic charity,” were given disgracefully light sentences today in Jakarta. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
In Nigeria, pupils taking an Islamic Religious Knowledge exam were so offended by something their teacher did with a Koran that they ambushed her outside the school and beat her to death. (http://www.news.com....)
Insurgents in Iraq detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat after US soldiers let it through a Baghdad checkpoint over the weekend, a senior US military official said Tuesday. (http://www.breitbart...)
BANGKOK (Reuters) - Suspected separatist militants on motorbikes killed three Buddhist farmworkers in Thailand’s far south as they traveled to work on Monday, a local official said. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
LUCKNOW, India - An Indian Muslim group has offered a 500,000 rupee (11,319 dollar) bounty for the beheading of controversial Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen. (http://www.khaleejti...)
In a stomach-turning video clip from Al Aqsa TV (the Hamas television station) broadcast on March 8, 2007, the children of female suicide bomber Rim Al-Riyashi talk happily about their mother’s act of mass murder. (http://www.memritv.o...)
BANGKOK, Thailand - Suspected Muslim insurgents opened fire on nine Buddhists who were riding in a commuter van in Thailand’s restive south Wednesday, killing all of them execution-style, police said. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
PATTANI, Thailand (AFP) - Suspected Islamic militants shot dead three workers from Myanmar and beheaded one of them during an attack on a construction site in Thailand’s Muslim-majority south, police said Monday. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
CASABLANCA, Morocco - A man with explosives hidden on his body blew himself up in an Internet cafe after the owners prevented him from looking at terror Web sites, the Interior Ministry said Monday. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
According to the Herald Sun, Islamic jihad literature is proliferating in prayer rooms, bookshops, and web sites across Australia, taking advantage of free speech and tolerance to spread a message of Australia’s destruction. (http://www.news.com....)
NARATHIWAT, Thailand (AFP) - Suspected Islamic separatists have killed three people in Thailand’s restive south, including one man they beheaded and set alight, police said Wednesday. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
In this clip, a British Muslim cleric praises the videotaped beheading murder of British hostage Ken Bigley as an act of war, says Bigley embraced Islam before he was slaughtered—then jokes about it.
Mohammed Taheri-Azar, who drove an SUV through a crowd of students at UNC-Chapel Hill in a outburst of Sudden Jihad Syndrome, appeared in court today. (http://hotair.com/ar...)
Khar: Two bombs targeting barber shops and a music store exploded in northwestern Pakistan, where militants have issued threats against shaving beards and selling music, a security official said yesterday. (http://www.gulfnews....)
The Sabian Mandaeans - one of the oldest religious groups in the world - are facing extinction, according to its leaders. They claim that Islamic extremists in Iraq are trying to wipe them out through forced conversions, rape and murder. (http://news.bbc.co.u...)
AMBON, Indonesia - A bomb packed with nails exploded at a port in the eastern Indonesian city of Ambon on Saturday, wounding 12 people in a region that has seen deadly Muslim-Christian violence in the past, police said. (http://www.thestate....)
ROCHESTER, MN — A Mayo Clinic researcher is under federal investigation tonight, for possibly trying to use a chemical weapon. (http://www.kttc.com/...)
Interesting detail on the German organization for ex-Muslims, whose leader recently asked for police protection after receiving death threats from representatives of the Religion of Women’s Rights™. (http://sugiero.blogs...)
Islamabad - Suspected Islamic militants captured and beheaded a schoolteacher in Pakistan’s Afghan border area for allegedly spying for the United States, said an official on Wednesday. (http://www.news24.co...)
Three Palestinian women have been murdered in the Gaza Strip in the past 24 hours, Palestinian Authority security officials and local residents said. The security official said he did not rule out the possibility that the three women were killed by male relatives in the context of what is known as “honor killings.” Such killings are not unusual among Palestinians and many Arab countries. At least 25 women are murdered every year in the West Bank and Gaza Strip for “bringing shame” on their male relatives. (http://www.jpost.com...)
An organized gang of Bedouin Israelis has been prowling northern Israel, raping Jewish women as ‘revenge’ for IDF actions in the Palestinian Authority. (http://www.jpost.com...)
The imam of a Georgia mosque has been sentenced to seven years in prison for funneling money to Hamas; he might have gotten 15 years, but his sentence was reduced because he’s been informing on his former partners in terror. (http://www.ledger-en...)
A Nashville cabbie made anti-Semitic statements and praised Adolph Hitler’s campaign against Jews during a religious argument that culminated when he ran over one of the passengers as he left the taxi, witnesses said during a hearing today. (http://www.tennessea...)
Two 18-year old Palestinians stalked, ambushed, then hacked to death a 42-year old Jewish man on Sunday. (http://www.ynetnews....)
The Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility for a stabbing attack which left an Israeli man dead on Sunday night. (http://www.ynetnews....)
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Three French travelers were killed by gunmen Monday in the Saudi Arabian desert when they stopped their car to rest on the side of a road leading to the holy city of Medina in an area restricted to Muslims only. ...( http://www.onelocaln...)
In the blood-stained annals of “honor killing,” this is surely one of the most appalling stories ever to emerge: Abu-Ghanem women speak out against serial ‘honor killings’. (http://www.haaretz.c...)
COLOGNE, Germany, Feb. 23 (UPI) — The founder of a group in Germany for former Muslims has sought police protection after receiving death threats. (http://www.upi.com/N...)
Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, whose Islamic supremacist and antisemitic statements are legendary, told the Muslim Welfare Organization of Malaysia that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. (http://malaysia-toda...)
Egyptian blogger Abdel Kareem Nabil Suleiman, sentenced to prison for “inciting hatred of Islam,” has been disowned by his family—and his father would like to see his son executed under shari’a law. (http://www.sandmonke...)
An editorial in Pakistan’s Daily Times is unusually honest about Islamic clerics’ near-universal support for the mass murder of non-Muslims: Our clerics favour suicide-bombing! (http://www.dailytime...)
Two cousins were arrested Wednesday on federal charges of conspiring to wage holy war against Americans overseas, including U.S. military forces in Iraq. Zubair A. Ahmed, 27, of suburban North Chicago, and Khaleel Ahmed, 26, of Chicago, were accused along with three other men who already had been under indictment on charges of plotting acts of terrorism against Americans overseas. (http://www.nbc5.com/...)
A father killed his wife and four daughters in their sleep because he could not bear them adopting a more westernised lifestyle, an inquest heard yesterday. (http://www.telegraph...)
LAHORE, Pakistan (Reuters) - A suspected Islamist zealot shot dead a Pakistani woman provincial government minister on Tuesday because he believed women should not be in politics, officials said. The gunman, identified as Mohammad Sarwar, was immediately arrested. Punjab Law Minister Raja Basharat told Reuters the gunman had been implicated in six previous murder cases but had never been convicted because of a lack of evidence. (http://in.today.reut...)
A Pakistani minister and woman’s activist has been shot dead by an Islamic extremist for refusing to wear the veil. (http://www.timesonli...)
CHICAGO — An enraged Iranian immigrant used a 3-pound hammer to beat his wife, sister-in-law and mother-in-law to death and then stabbed them repeatedly because he felt “disrespected,” police said Monday. (http://www.foxnews.c...)
At least 28 bombs exploded Sunday in apparently coordinated attacks in parts of southern Thailand plagued by a Muslim insurgency, killing three people and wounding more than 50, the military said. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) - A suicide bomber killed 15 people - including a judge - after blowing himself up inside a courtroom in a southwestern Pakistani province that has seen intense civil conflict for years, police said. (http://apnews.myway....)
At San Francisco State University, you can do anything you want to a US flag or a Christian religious symbol: burn it, deface it, submerge it in bodily fluids. It’s all good. But step on paper copies of Hamas and Hizballah flags, and you’re in a world of hurt. (http://www.sfgate.co...)
ISLAMABAD (AFP) - A suicide attacker opened fire at Pakistan’s Islamabad International airport before blowing himself up with a hand grenade, injuring three people, the interior minister said. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
The Sun reports that a video has surfaced of UK Islamic preacher Abu Izzadeen (formerly known as Omar Brooks before his “reversion” to Islam) calling for all Muslims serving in the British Army to be killed. (http://www.thesun.co...)
THE al-Qaeda plot to behead a British Muslim soldier was smashed after MI5 intercepted a panic order to the kidnap gang: “If you can’t find a Muslim, ANY squaddie will do.” (http://www.newsofthe...)
BANGKOK, Feb 1 (Reuters) - An ice cream vendor was killed and his headless body left sitting on the bicycle seat of his cart in Thailand’s rebellious Muslim south on Thursday, police said. (http://www.alertnet....)
It’s a death cult family moment, as the Eilat suicide bomber’s brother exults in mass murder: Bomber’s brother: We’re happy Muhammad is the hero. (http://www.ynetnews....)
YALA, Thailand (AFP) - Four people have been shot dead and two others injured in attacks by suspected Islamic militants in Thailand’s insurgency-torn southern provinces, according to police. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
ISLAMABAD (AFP) - At least 14 people including two senior police officers were killed in a suspected suicide bombing in northwest Pakistan’s main city, police and officials said. About 30 people were also injured in the explosion that targeted a police contingent guarding a procession of the Shiite Muslim community, Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao told AFP. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
PARIS: A French Muslim who attacked a male gynaecologist for examining his wife just after she had given birth, saying it was against Islam, has been jailed for six months by a Paris court. (http://www.stuff.co....)
AMMAN, Jordan - A Jordanian man fatally shot his 17-year-old daughter whom he suspected of having sex despite a medical exam that proved her chastity, an official said Thursday. The man surrendered to police hours after the killing, saying he had done it for family honor. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) — A Buddhist man in restive southern Thailand was beheaded by suspected Muslim insurgents who left a note by the body warning Buddhists to leave the area that has been gripped by bloody violence for three years, police said. (http://www.breitbart...)
CHICAGO - A graduate student living in Mississippi was an important Hamas terrorist leader directing thousands of dollars to families of members who were jailed or killed, a prosecutor said Tuesday in closing arguments of the trial of two accused militants. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
MANILA, Philippines - Three bombs within hours of each other rocked the southern Philippines on Wednesday, killing at least six people and wounding 27 others, officials said, amid warnings that Muslim militants may try to disrupt this weekend’s Asian regional summits. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
http://www.memritv.o...
Kindergarten graduation ceremony from hell, with young boys dressed as terrorists, wearing Hamas headbands, waving toy guns and swords and chanting “Death for the sake of Allah!”
http://news.yahoo.co...
Ex-con testifies that alleged Al Qaeda operative Jose Padilla became radicalized at a Florida mosque.
The “Swords of Truth,” an Islamic group that has been bombing internet cafes and music stores in Gaza, is now warning female TV personalities on Palestine TV that they must wear strict Islamic dress while spewing hate speech, or risk being beheaded. (http://news.yahoo.co...)
Radicals Target Pakistani Girls’ Schools, As Militancy Surges In Remote Tribal Areas, Girls’ Schools Have Become Targets.
http://www.cbsnews.c...
Iran’s madman president is talking about genocide again
http://news.yahoo.co...
A British government report on UK universities says that some Islamic studies departments are ‘breeding radicals’.
http://www.telegraph...
Narathiwat - Muslim terrorists launched a spate of attacks in this southern border province, killing a Muslim teacher and a Muslim villager and injuring three officials.
http://www.nationmul...
An Australian Islamic cleric says he is constantly being approached by Muslim university students looking for his approval to kill infidels.
http://www.theaustra...
This Friday sermon from the Religion of Peace™ is delivered at a Khartoum mosque by Sheik Muhammad Tannoun. It aired on Sudan TV on May 25, 2007, with helpful sign language for hearing-impaired haters.
http://memritv.org/
Another murder in the Thailand jihad, as well as sabotage intended to kill many more.
http://www.bangkokpo...
The President of Sunni Islam’s highest center of learning, Al-Azhar University, explains the proper way for a Muslim to beat his wife/wives.
http://memritv.org/d...
File under WTF?
John Edwards is trying to get to the left of Dennis Kucinich (who wants to replace the Department of Defense with a “Department of Peace”) by proposing that we “fight” a nonexistent war on imaginary terrorists by creating a peace corps.
http://www.nysun.com...
One more dead and 23 injured in the south Thailand jihad: Woman killed in Thai tea shop blast.
http://www.channel4....
In addition to the shooting, burning, and beheading reported yesterday in southern Thailand, “insurgents” wounded 20 people when they bombed a market.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Two security officers have been shot dead by suspected Islamic rebels in Thailand’s restive Muslim-majority south, police said Thursday.
http://nationmultime...
The military-installed Thai government responds to the beheadings and bombings by offering amnesty to the “insurgents.”
http://www.bangkokpo...
Military: New Iraqi school had bombs built in.
http://www.cnn.com/2...
Radical Islamists have blown up 20 video shops in two cities of Pakistan’s North Western Frontier Province (NWFP), while a bomb exploded outside a girls’ school in the same region, local media reported on Friday.
http://www.int.iol.c...
Palestinian terrorists opened fire at a UN elementary school in Rafah this morning, because it was “sports day” and boys and girls were participating in the event simultaneously.
http://www.haaretz.c...
Five people, including two Muslim children, have been killed by suspected Islamic rebels in separate attacks in Thailand’s violence-torn south, police have said.
http://www.abc.net.a...
A bomb killed four people and wounded 29 when it tore through a billiard hall in the southern Philippines on Tuesday in an attack military officials blamed on an al Qaeda-linked Islamist group.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Sheik Shady Suleiman caught instructing his students on when it’s OK to kill children.
http://www.theaustra...
Seven soldiers were killed Wednesday in a bomb attack by separatist insurgents in Thailand’s restive south, military and police said.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Imam Fouad ElBayly of the Johnstown Islamic Center, who said that author Ayaan Hirsi Ali deserved to be killed for her views on Islam.
http://www.pittsburg...
A Buddhist man was shot dead by suspected separatist militants on Thursday in Thailand’s restive south, police said, after two Muslims were killed overnight.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Florida doctor Rafiq Abdus Sabir, on trial for terrorism-related charges, decided to take the stand and testify, to make his case and show that he was a true Man of Peace™. “Under cross examination, the Columbia University-trained physician was forced to acknowledge a history of family violence, a fascination with weapons and a belief that good Muslims should engage in armed jihad, or holy war.”
http://abcnews.go.co...
After shooting a Buddhist man and his wife in south Thailand, Islamic terrorists hacked off the man’s head in front of his 3-year old daughter.
http://news.monsters...
A suicide bomber with a warning to spies for America taped to his leg attacked a crowded restaurant Tuesday near the Afghan border.
http://news.yahoo.co...
An Al-Qaeda front group in Europe threatened on Tuesday to launch bloody attacks in France in response to the election of “crusader and Zionist” Nicolas Sarkozy as president.
http://www.expatica....
The husband of a pregnant teenager found stabbed to death has been arrested on suspicion of her murder.
http://www.dailymail...
Thirteen people were hurt when a powerful blast ripped through a crowded bus terminal in the southern Philippines on Friday, police said.
http://www.alertnet....
Denmark’s famous Little Mermaid statue was found dressed in a Muslim headscarf and dress today.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Suspected separatist rebels have shot dead five people in Thailand’s restive south, police said Sunday.
http://nationmultime...
The Iranian theocracy was serious about that crackdown on “un-Islamic” dress; they’ve begun beating women in Tehran who don’t comply.
http://www.thememrib...
Insurgents shot dead a Buddhist man and burnt his body in an increasingly used atrocity in Yala early Tuesday, before detonating a bomb at police responding to the scene, wounding four people including a foreign photographer.
http://www.bangkokpo...
Insurgents killed six people, including two teenaged boys, in separate shootings in Yala on Wednesday.
http://www.bangkokpo...
Once, Hamas members were afraid to wear beards for fear of being arrested by Israel’s security forces. Today, they are once again afraid of appearing in public with beards - this time for fear that they will be killed or kidnapped by Fatah militiamen in the Gaza Strip.
http://www.jpost.com...
A Queens high school student was charged with hate crimes Friday for violating a Sikh student’s religious beliefs by forcing him to remove his turban and cutting his hair, the Queens district attorney said. “The boy said it was against his religion, but Ahmed showed him a ring and said, “This ring is Allah. If you don’t let me cut your hair, I will punch you with this ring.”
http://www.newsday.c...
Spanish police said on Monday they had arrested 15 people suspected of recruiting Islamic fighters for Iraq and North Africa.
http://news.yahoo.co...
A bomb planted on a motorcycle in a busy market in southern Thailand killed four people on Monday, the army said, the latest victims of a Muslim separatist insurgency.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Yea, it's the policies.......
In the September 10 Washington Times article "Unanswered Questions of September 11", one of the apparent "mysteries" of 9/11 is "What motivated 19 relatively well-off Arab men, all Muslims, to become such horrific suicide bombers?" In an interview with the Washington Times, "Lee Hamilton, vice chairman of the national September 11 commission, says motivation was the 'big question' the panel could not answer. 'We were never able to answer why the 19 were willing to kill themselves. What was the motivation? I am talking in a very personal way,' Mr. Hamilton, a Democrat who represented Indiana's 9th District in the House for 34 years".
There is no mystery behind the 9/11 Jihadists' motivation at all. It has been clearly and unambiguously spelled out by the Jihadists and their successors - it is "Death to America", death to the infidels, and the establishment of a global Islamist caliphate - what Jihad is all about.
Counterterrorism that does not understand the role of Islamist extremism religious faith in Jihadist terrorism is no more than blindly groping in the dark -- focusing on logistics, groups, bombs, timelines, targets -- but completely incapable and ignorant of WHY Jihadist terrorism exists.
The motivation of the 9/11 Jihadists may (disturbingly) be a mystery to vice-chairman of the 9/11 Commission, but it is certainly not a mystery to Walid Phares, Robert Spencer, Steve Emerson, and countless others over the past five years who have clearly and unambiguously tied Jihadist terror attacks to the religious faith of the Jihadists, who acted based on their faith.
Even considering that the mainstream media only presents a portion of the global Jihadist war, how can Americans be ignorant of the role of religion in Jihadism - five years after the 9/11 attacks? Wasn't it just eight days ago that an Al Qaeda video was released to the American people warning them to convert to Islam - or else? And the motivation of Jihadists is still an "unanswered question"?
In this world war, are the Jihadists the only ones acting based on their faith? Clearly, the above-mentioned scholars of Jihadism have described the threat and religious basis. They have explained why Jihadist terrorists hate us. And the constant calls by Jihadists for a global Islamist caliphate are frequently repeated in report after report. The Jihadists are acting on their religious beliefs - they believe that their terrorist goals are Allah's goals.
Jihadists rightly understand that faith without action is nothing. The challenge to Americans of faith and others in world religions is to rise to challenge the Jihadists' religious and totalitarian worldview of an Earth dominated by an Islamist caliphate. Ignoring the role of religion in Jihadist terrorism allows the fires of Jihad to burn with no visible way of truly countering them. Counterterrorism is about countering terrorism - not simply countering individual terrorist attacks.
So if an honest analysis of counter-Jihadist-terrorism requires an understanding of religion, does it not also demand that others of religious faith speak out and actively stand against the Jihadists? In the current issue of the Futurist, Professor Thomas McFaul warns of the threats of exclusivity in religion and the global future civilization, which he expands on in his book, calling for a more inclusive future between religions.
To reach this goal in counter-Jihadist-terrorism of pluralism among religious groups, it is imperative that those of faith, other than Jihadists, speak out and stand up against the Jihadist global threat. Tolerance of intolerance will not spread peace or pluralism among the religions of the world, but only emboldens the totalitarian vision of the Jihadists.
And where do we stand on this? We remember the symbol of St. Peter's Church near NYC's Ground Zero as a place for WTC rescue efforts. But what about the ongoing faith of Americans after 9/11 and how that faith is being used to counter Jihad? We are told of how "Americans used religion as Band-Aid" after the 9/11 attacks and threw it away. We have reports of religious faith was abandoned after the attacks. Some grew in faith, and some lost their faith. Members of some religious groups became radicalized and spread Jihad. Some members of other religious groups sought to appease Jihad - such as those Presbyterians who supported Hezbollah and used Presbyterian publishing houses to print 9/11 conspiracy screeds blaming USA.
And the sad truth is that the overwhelming majority of religious leaders have done little to stand up against Jihadism. I remember listening to "Restoring Faith - America's Religious Leaders Answer Terror with Hope" on the Washington DC subway and hearing more appeasement than hope. I remember hearing Desmond Tutu demanding that we forgive the Jihadist terrorists as "they are children of God". But religious leaders actually challenging people of faith to condemn Jihadism around the world and its religious tenets? Many religious leaders are either too afraid of being branded "Islamophobic", afraid of Jihadists, or unwilling to face the totalitarian threat of Jihadism to step up and speak out about it. And many more just hope that Jihadism will go away, or that "someone else" will deal with Jihadism. "Tolerance and understanding" of Jihad will not stop the next 9/11 attack on America.
Last week, the Washington Post reported on Islamic Salafists as victims of 9/11 whose "theology and practices were suddenly suspect", ignoring that the theology of Salfism "is a clear, straightforward statement of belief that calls on the faithful to carry out jihad." Clearly, there is not an understanding here that acting in faith against Jihadist terrorism means to actively reject those philosophies of Jihadism. Nor will false "fatwas" by Islamic groups that refuse to condemn Jihadism.
Small achievements have been made in reformist and moderate Islamic groups, with individual leaders such as Irshad Manji. Reformist Muslim Irshad Manji has challenged "Muslim Myopia", urging Muslims to seek reform of Islam and take accountability for the actions of Jihadists, and not to use the crutch of foreign policy, economics, etc., to ignore the obvious that the Jihadists are acting on their faith. Small Muslim protest marches against Jihad in Washington DC and Arizona have happened. Those acting in faith against Jihad need to be encouraged and supported. But we have not yet seen a "Million Man" march of peace-loving Muslims condemning Jihadism in Washington DC, and five years after 9/11, this is long, long overdue.
We need to see more faith in action in fighting Jihadism. Members of all religious groups need to also act in faith against Jihad. This is a responsibility for all Muslim and non-Muslim religious leaders who seek peaceful co-existence. People of faith need to roll up their sleeves in action to seek the survival of their religion and their people from Jihadist totalitarianism.
Because in addressing counter-Jihadist-terrorism - it is all about RELIGION. And 5 years after 9/11, it is past time that people with faiths -- other than the Jihadists --ACT based on their faith.
Nothing to see here, it's the policies....move along...
"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"
Facts again?? BORING!!!
September 13, 2007 - 05:57 ET by Sergeant ROCKFacts again?? BORING!!!
Are you still proud of this forum Pumpkinhead?
June 18, 2009 - 06:05 ET by JWFStill an islamist apologist?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Once again, you are looking
September 13, 2007 - 09:20 ET by AvatarOnce again, you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Terrorist organizations USE things that the US does as an excuse to justify their actions to the bubbleheaded idiots of western nations, but it's not the REASON for which they do it. There is only one reason: We are not muslim, and don't want to be muslim.
The Avatar
Alqueda aint Muslim...
September 13, 2007 - 11:06 ET by TruthMongerWhich Wing essentially said it himself:
"Moreover, everyone agrees that the hijackers were Muslim religious fanatics. Under their religion -- Islam -- suicide and the murder of innocent people are mortal sins that condemn the transgressor to Hell. No matter how much a religious fanatic might hate another person's lifestyle and values, how logical is it that he is going to commit an act that condemns him to Hell?"
...they're not truly Muslim - just homicidal fanatics...
Quite the contrary, the
September 13, 2007 - 15:07 ET by AvatarQuite the contrary, the Koran very much encourages killing and subduing those who do not turn to the faith. To dismiss their beliefs as radical is not correct. The Koran is very clear on this issue. Infidels are worse than animals, worthy of slavery or death. that's not radical islam, that's core islam.
The Avatar
This is a noteworthy point
June 18, 2009 - 08:40 ET by CortillaenThis is a noteworthy point to make clear: The Koran is self-contradictory. It says to be kind to and protect "people of the book" (Jews and Christians, those who use the Old Testament), but also says to bring Islam by the sword, killing all those who refuse to convert or accept subhuman status and the jizya (crushing non-believer tax). Likewise, Muslim "scholars" claim the OT has been perverted by Jews and Christians, and that they are spreading lies and deception. When the religion is built upon at least one (perhaps more; I haven't spent overmuch time looking for them) irreconcilable contradiction, it's a simple matter to whip up fanatical rage while claiming they're just rogue outcasts of the real faith. Of course, the Koran also permits lying to infidels...
On an almost-related note, it's interesting that so many people waste so much time trying to find gotchas in the Bible when the Koran has such blatant contradictions. Oh, right, speaking against the Koran gets you killed. Calling Christians insane, defiling Christian symbols with urine and feces, and the like? Not so much.
More of my thoughts
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." - Miyamoto Musashi
About those UN sanctions
September 12, 2007 - 09:37 ET by mastersofdeceit" Baram proceeded to shatter the myth that 1.5 million Iraqis had died
of sanctions-related disease. He did it by checking Iraqi claims
against recent Iraqi census data. Since 1991, Iraq's population, even
by Iraqi figures, had grown way too fast for there to be anything near
the number of sanctions-related deaths claimed by Iraq. Baram's
conclusions contradicted everything I had heard in Iraq and from Voices:
The [mortality] statistics provided by the government of Iraq (GOI)
are false in some cases and misleading in others. In the first place
the regime is providing inflated figures of mortality as a result of
the embargo. This affects the credibility of all the information
provided by Baghdad and greatly complicates its cooperation with
international humanitarian organizations"
Confessions of an Anti-Sanctions Activist
a blind eye
June 18, 2009 - 09:12 ET by AgnosticEven if the numbers were acurate then the money raised by Al Qaida and Osama's potential share of family money could have easily paid to feed and medically treat all those people. Where is their moral responsibility? Why is it okay to the idiots in the western media for these extremist to shirk the responsibilities of raising their children to kill infidels but let a few college students and illigal immigrants decide they don't need healthcare and we need to radically adopt an increasingly socialist agenda in order to care for them.
I feel like I'm mixing metaphors without the metaphors. Anyway, if the media could turn a blind eye to the responsibilities of killers then their opinion is not worth the paper it is printed on.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
(yawn)
September 12, 2007 - 22:46 ET by Free Stinker(yawn)
Thanks for the reminder
June 18, 2009 - 15:26 ET by Unsane...and you wonder why I say you are anti-military, and want a whiny-as-possible America.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Yawn
June 18, 2009 - 20:49 ET by Free StinkerUnsane: 10
Whichwing: 0
Shootdown
June 29, 2009 - 12:01 ET by UnsaneAh. Looking at the date, I was doing other things.
Too easy.
Were the no-fly zone and the embargo worth the lives of 6,000 Americans? Where exactly does this number come from? I'd say the no-fly zones MAY have cost 100 lives. MAYBE, and these due to some horrific accidents.
They are unable to explain, however, how keeping Iraqi planes out of parts of the Iraqi skies and how killing tens of thousands of Iraqi children with an economic embargo impedes Hussein from achieving such a goal. Those children didn't have to starve at all! The ONLY thing Saddam Hussein had to do was to not give ALL of the food and medical aid he received to the military! (You know, sorta like what goes on in North Korea?) But does the author blame Saddam Hussein? Does WhichWhine? No, because to do so would require them to blame other people besides the focus of their hatred, the United States.
The point is motivation, not whether the resulting actions are meritorious or valid. Not really. Motivation is secondary. It doesn't matter why Pol Pot whacked 2 million of his own people in the end; it matters that Pol Pot whacked 2 million of his own people to begin with. Among other atrocities.
The overwhelming weight of the evidence establishes that the attacks were instead motivated by the continual war that the U.S. government has waged against Iraq for the past 10 years, the permanent occupation of Islamic holy lands by U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. government's 10-year embargo against the Iraqi people. Yet the author does not present ANYWHERE this "overwhelming weight of evidence". Bernard Lewis's The Crisis of Islam among others pretty much shoots this claim straight to hell.
Immediately withdraw all U.S. troops from Saudi Arabia and end the bombing and embargo against Iraq, even while striving to bring bin Laden and his cohorts to justice. Can he explain to me why then the Madrid and London bombings occurred, and other terrorist plots concocted, after the withdrawal of American forces from Saudi Arabia in May 2003?
Not to mention that the author, as well as WhichWhine, are ABSOLUTELY ACHING to do EVERYTHING terrorists tell us to do. This in total disregard of the policy that "we don't deal with terrorists", a policy rooted in the illegitimacy of their methods or airing "grievances" and the fact that terrorist organizations have never and will never have the same profile as nation states.
Congratulations, WhichWhine. Your arguments, and those of the America-hating authors you exclusively read, have been shot down straight to Hell. Again. By me. Now, if you will excuse me, I must wash my hands. If this author hates America that much, perhaps he can move to Canada and renounce his citizenship.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
As I predicted:
July 10, 2009 - 06:57 ET by WhichWing"Unsane will undoubtedly tell us all who hates America, it's military,
Israel, freedom and justice. But if you read his comments carefully you
will see who really hates these things"
I read his comments Pumpkinhead.
July 10, 2009 - 08:21 ET by JWFThe man took time out of his day to respond in a reasonable manner.
The only hate I see is coming from your huge empty rotting Cucurbita head.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Time
July 11, 2009 - 05:46 ET by WhichWingThis thread was from September 2007 and he took the time to respond in July 2009. Yeah, that's right, scroll up and check. Regardless of that my prediction was correct, wasn't it?
You are truly flatter than hammered poo stupid. Pumpkinhead.
July 11, 2009 - 10:13 ET by JWFDid you read what the man said? The man is probably active duty. He said he was doing other things. That means he was deployed which (depending on the service) could be anywhere from six months to a year.
Seeing as you are rock stupid, I would not put responding to you at the top of my list when I return from a deployment.
Let's see the list.
3266. Clean the gutterscrunge out of the gutters.
3267. Speaking of gutterscrunge, see what Pumkinhead (as JWF is want to call him) wrote.
3268. Express the dogs anal gland, speaking of squeezing a dog's anal gland, see if JWF pounded on Pumpkinhead in another post.
The only reason he saw this at all was because I commented here while I was searching for JasonC's old posts. It brought it to the top of the queue in the forum Pumpkinhead. And you wonder why I pick on you, poo fer brains.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Another one
July 17, 2009 - 06:53 ET by WhichWingLook at JWF. He's knows what you are thinking. He knows what you do and don't know. He knows where you are, or where you were. And "doing other things" now means you were deployed!
Well, I don't think Unsane was saying he was deployed. And I'm willing to bet that he was not deployed, as you can find numerous other comments from him during this same time period.
So JWF, maybe you should just let Unsane come up with his own excuses, because you seem to be getting awful defensive over his honor (or lack thereof).
I know your name too Donald Penoppscott.
July 17, 2009 - 10:12 ET by JWFI know you did 30 days in the county lockup for copraphilia. I did not know that was even against the law.
I know you have no friends. Your coworkers hate you because you rarely shower and smell to high heaven.
I know your mother had her telephone number unlisted because you constantly call begging for money. The rest of your family will have nothing to do with you because you are a mooch.
I know your neighbors hate you because you won't mow your lawn.
I know you are 43 years old and still a virgin. Of course, what with the god awful smell, no woman would go near you.
I know you were banned from Daily Kos due to your obsession with Rostafarianism. And you were banned from the Huffington Post because of your constant sexual innuendos about Arianna Huffingtion.
I know you have spent most of your adult life on welfare or unemployment. You only have a job at Wendy's now because your brother begged them to take you.
I know you have been to rehab 4 times but your family refuses to pay for it anymore. It is all for the better anyway because you quit drinking due to the constant check kiting. You can't buy booze anymore.
You are a loser in every classic sense of the word Donald.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
GJ
July 18, 2009 - 07:33 ET by WhichWingNot bad. You even approached 'funny' a few times in there. Catch ya later.
WhichWing
July 18, 2009 - 10:56 ET by Free StinkerWhichWing,
How do you keep smuggling a wireless laptop into the Psych ward ?
Copraphilia
July 18, 2009 - 11:47 ET by ParagrouperEEEEEWWWWWW! say it isn't so!
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr
GISD
July 18, 2009 - 18:01 ET by WhichWingGarland Independent School District had a strange curriculum.
Speaking of responding Pumpkinhead. How about me?
July 11, 2009 - 10:11 ET by JWF27jun09 http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberals-logical-fallacies-fallacious-arguments-huh-factor-31067#comment-963685
5jul09 http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberals-logical-fallacies-fallacious-arguments-huh-factor-31067#comment-969096
8may09 http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-waterboarding-torture-truth-not-29806#comment-927546
There is probably a lot more. Pumpkinhead gets punchdrunk and wonders off.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I think what happens is,
July 11, 2009 - 11:40 ET by Free StinkerI think what happens is, the Nurses finally realized that WhichWing has smuggled yet another another wireless web laptop into the psych ward, and go confiscate it.
The M.O.
July 12, 2009 - 20:55 ET by UnsaneIt is quite difficult having a meaningful discussion with a intellectually dishonest poster who will run away as soon as his deeply held principles (Ron Paul is God, central banks are evil, America is fascist because it projects power, believes the best defense is a good offense/being proactive, won't let poor little WhichWhine purchase or possess his precious all-important drugs, and isn't stuck in the 1790s, blah blah blah) are countered by anything remotely intelligent and rooted firmly in the real world.
Either he will run away or completely ignore what is being said. Sad, really.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
?
July 17, 2009 - 07:01 ET by WhichWingYou expecting responses to those comments that you linked to? I'm losing faith in you buddy.
You lose
July 13, 2009 - 23:35 ET by UnsaneRegardless of that my prediction was correct, wasn't it? Apparently not, because if you were correct, your assertion would be apple-pie easy to prove. But all you did here was bitch about how I responded 21 months later.
I could have typed my response in September 2047 and it would still be valid.
If the only thing you have in rebuttal is that I typed a response in July 2009 for a thread that originated in September 2007...well, you completely lost the argument.
Thanks to JWF, The Vet, for dredging this up. And yes, I was quite busy at the time with much going on...none of which is your business, WhichWhine, but sometimes that happens. This is what happens to people who think there is more to life than sitting around and getting high.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Poor druggie
July 12, 2009 - 20:50 ET by Unsane"But if you read his comments we will see who really hates these things" This would in fact be you and the America-hating author you quoted, WhichWhine, who attempts to shift all sorts of things that are the fault of Saddam Hussein upon the United States, as I indicated above.
And once again you will probably run off someplace whining about how much I say you hate the military, when here you are quoting chapter and verse from someone who badmouths and slams the military and America's foreign policy as much as you do. (And neither of you have done so remotely intelligently.)
Now, if you want to further prove your drug-addled, America-dead-last mentality is guiding you, YOU, and YOU alone, may rebut the critique I gave.
And your whining about how long it took only indicates you lose the argument, as such issues are not germane to the discussion. Some of us have other things to do, like being productive members of society. Just because you sit around all day taking in all sorts of drugs does not mean the rest of us are engaging the the same loser behavior.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
~Congrats, Uns
July 12, 2009 - 20:56 ET by choselife3xUnsane will undoubtedly tell us all who hates America, it's military,
Israel, freedom and justice. But if you read his comments carefully you
will see who really hates these things.
You drove him over the brink, he's gibbering and drooling now. Take a moment to savor it.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my heel.