I wanted to ask about the Don't ask don't tell policy in the military. Polls show that a majority of Americans think it is okay for Gays and Lesbians to serve openly in the military.
I wanted to ask people on this site that currently serve or have served in our armed forces, how is this issue treated.
Do most military members just turn a blind eye to fellow soldiers that engage in homosexual activities and the liberal media is making a big deal about something out of nothing, or do most gays feel like outcasts and have to hide their sexual orientation from everyone else?
Comments Policy
Gays in the military
May 26, 2008 - 11:47 ET by shawn228Are homosexuals and lesbians treated with disdain in the military? Or is the Liberal media just exaggerating how uncomfortable they feel?
Does sexual orientation really matter to those that will give up their lives to defend our country?
Its like anything else
May 26, 2008 - 11:53 ET by expatriotShawn,
I will have thirty years in come October. In that time we knew there were homosexuals in the units. If they did not flaunt it we did not go out of our way to point it out. If there was a violation of UCMJ we would make sure they were prosecuted. The ones complaining are the ones who are flaunting it and in your face. Until congress changes the rules the manual for courts martial is the law in the military and we will follow it.
I hope that helps. Maybe some other vet can explain it better.
Thank you expatriot
May 26, 2008 - 11:59 ET by shawn228I agree with the don't ask, don't tell policy. The msm always makes it out to be, gays are treated like outcasts. That is why I want to find out first hand how is it for people that have served.
»→ Yo Shawn
May 26, 2008 - 12:05 ET by Cool ArrowSurprise! I disagree with you.
When I was in the Military, heterosexuals weren't required to keep their mouths shut about their hetero encounters.
Gays shouldn't be held to a different standard in this regard.
Don't ask, don't tell is a silly law. And the prospect that any American, gay or straight, should be evaluated for fitness to serve based on sexual proclivity is ludicrous.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Cool
May 26, 2008 - 12:11 ET by expatriotI think Shawn is trying to say that letting them serve is the proper thing to do. As I said in my post, if they don't violate the UCMJ they are fine. Until CONGRESS decides to change the law don't ask don't tell is the best that can be expected.
»→ expatriot
May 26, 2008 - 12:15 ET by Cool ArrowAnd I'm saying the we shouldn't differentiate between the admittedly gay or the admittedly straight.
They're all full-fledged Americans, entitled to both the right and duty to defend.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
I understand that
May 26, 2008 - 12:20 ET by expatriotCA,
Not trying to be difficult and I understand where you are coming from. However it still is up to the law makers to change the frickin' law.
I think we can both agree that we have a live and let live attitude until legally we can't as set down by the laws today. It will take a strong congress to make that change, especially with everything else going on in America.
»→ expatriot
May 26, 2008 - 12:25 ET by Cool ArrowI understand what you're saying, but laws are made to be bent.
May I call your attention to the double standard when a prostitute and a john are caught together?
Both have committed a crime. Do both go to court?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
"Don't ask, don't tell is a
May 26, 2008 - 12:32 ET by shawn228"Don't ask, don't tell is a silly law. And the prospect that any
American, gay or straight, should be evaluated for fitness to serve
based on sexual proclivity is ludicrous."
CA, do mean you are all for gays in the military? Sorry, I'm not sure because your statement is ambigious.
»→ OK Shawn
May 26, 2008 - 12:42 ET by Cool ArrowI don't see how my post is ambiguous.
Of course I believe admittedly gay people should be allowed in the Military.
We don't expect straight servicemembers to keep their leanings hidden. Why is gay different?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Cool Arrow
May 26, 2008 - 12:48 ET by shawn228Then we do not disagree on this. I believe anyone that is willing to give their life to defend our great country, should not be looked down upon for their sexual orientation.
Unfortunately, many politicians "mainly Republicans" want to make it even harder for gays to serve.
»→ Shawn
May 26, 2008 - 12:51 ET by Cool ArrowMy disagreement was with
I think the policy is unknecessary and discriminatory.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Agreed CA
May 26, 2008 - 12:59 ET by shawn228however, it is better than not letting gays serve at all.
I'm starting to understand
May 27, 2008 - 15:21 ET by TruthMongerI'm starting to understand why the peds always feel left out:(
You must be Army or
May 26, 2008 - 12:27 ET by NL207You must be Army or Airforce. Shipboard life is much more difficult. Deployments often include weeks or even months without a port call and liberty. Maintaining order under such conditions is vastly more difficult than ashore. There is also far less privacy aboard ship than ashore. It is not unlike conditions experienced in prison and everyone knows what everybody else is doing, even in the head. When sodomy occurs, there can be serious consequences ranging far beyond the UCMJ. Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, a Gay who was "in-your-face" was at risk of being treated to a 'blanket party'. One was even beaten to death in a public restroom a few blocks from the ship's berth. Officers had to be on the alert for signs of this to prevent it. The most expedient course was to immediately discharge the offending sailor.
Liberty presents its own problems. Yes, the E-rates are able to blow off some steam, but there is all too often unwanted boisterousness in the port of call. The SP must be vigilant. When a Carrier BG makes a port call, it is like releasing 5,000 three-peckered billy goats who haven't seen a nanny goat in 6 weeks loose on the local populace. Every prostitute in the town will literally be worn out within 24 hours. A case in point: Until it was closed, Subic Bay was home to the largest brothel in the world, located in neighboring Olongapo. All entirely contrary to law and regulation, yet nevertheless, a thriving local industry.
Army
May 26, 2008 - 12:31 ET by expatriotBeing on a ship would make things a little more dicey as you point out. This is not an easy subject for anyone and as you point out there are second and third order effects from any decision that is made.
So Shawn, what do you think?
expatriot
May 26, 2008 - 12:35 ET by shawn228I think it is wrong to exclude gays in the military, but I agree with you on the "in your face thing"
Shawn
May 26, 2008 - 12:40 ET by expatriotYou have to remember when the laws were originally written homosexuality was very taboo. Rightly so or wrongly so I will not make a determination. I consider myself to be christian so I believe the act to be wrong, not the person.
I think the radicals who are in your face and moving into our lives whether we want them or not are really hurting those who act like human beings.
I have to side with my navy brethren who points out a valid arguement for ship board life. That would be an extremely difficult environment to operate in when someone starts invading your space.
expatriot
May 26, 2008 - 12:50 ET by shawn228I guess it all depends on what is meant by "invading your space". If I saw two men, doing it right beside my bunk, I sure would not like it.
If they did it out of site, it would not bother me at all.
Can't resist a good laugh!
May 27, 2008 - 15:07 ET by Syriusshawn228,
Some may want to agree with...if it were two babes doing it beside your bunk, you would not only enjoy it but would ask to join in since they were invading your space!!! LOL!!!
Syrius
Syrius,
May 27, 2008 - 15:38 ET by tracheostomy1. You're assuming Shawn is perpetually horny. Not very fair to him, or intellectually honest on your part, IMO.
2. Life is not a porno.
3. You never know for sure until it's actually happened to you.
4. Life is not a porno. Grow the hell up.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Lighten up, Francis!
May 27, 2008 - 16:25 ET by SyriusPJ,
How much porn can be found on a Navy vessel, or a Marine/ Army Barracks?
When did the Military become a porn-free zone?
I wasn't pointing to Shawn as a perpetually horny individual, you did. I was adding a side comment to be taken lightly...Should I apologize for getting you so upset on being so repressed?
If you look to the right side of this message board, you'll notice several advertisements showing cute women shilling Tshirts. It is okay to comment on how cute they are or is that verging on lust? Stop trying to be so righteous all the time and enjoy the show...
So, as you face reality once again...Shall I open another bedroom shutter to allow more light to flow into your darkness?
Syrius
Sy & s228, invade each others space on the
May 27, 2008 - 16:51 ET by upcountrywaterForedeck of the USS Carter.
Only if you 2 consent, of course.
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
Sy: How much porn can be
May 27, 2008 - 20:57 ET by tracheostomySy: How much porn can be found on a Navy vessel, or a Marine/ Army Barracks?
That diversion was so lame.
Sy: When did the Military become a porn-free zone?
When did I say that? This has got to be your most moronic non-sequitur yet.
In case you failed to understand, I was calling out your projecting upon Shawn's behavior and your assumption that he would indeed start acting like he were in a porn movie. Let's keep your personal military fantasies out of this.
Sy: I wasn't pointing to Shawn as a perpetually horny individual, you did.
Are you blind???
[...if it were two babes doing it beside your bunk, you would not only
enjoy it but would ask to join in since they were invading your
space!!! LOL!!!]
During inspection? During a drill? Wow Syrius, how do you know he wouldn't have it in him to take 'em to dinner and a movie first?
Oh yeah, I forgot, this is your little Cinemax fantasy. Reality doesn't barge in when you're in Syrius' little world.
1. You ever consider the fact that Shawn was looking for something a little more substantial in this thread other than sophomoric crap like your comments?
2. You think your so-called sense of humor is even original enough to make any of us laugh? Try something truly clever for a change. Cool Arrow does better dirty jokes than you.
Sy: I was adding a side comment to be taken lightly...Should I apologize
for getting you so upset on being so repressed?
See? You did it to Shawn & now you're doing it to me. That's called a compulsive habit Syrius. And argument-to-motive fallacy never got anyone anywhere.
Sy: If you look to the right side of this message board, you'll notice
several advertisements showing cute women shilling Tshirts. It is
okay to comment on how cute they are or is that verging on lust? Stop
trying to be so righteous all the time and enjoy the show...
A diversion. . .by appealing to a diversion. Nice. Oh, wait. I'm not biting. Try something else.
Sy: So, as you face reality once again...
LOL! Who's pay-per-view fantasy was this again? Oh yeah--Syrius! ROTF!!!
Sy: . . .Shall I open another bedroom shutter to allow more light to flow into your darkness?
Sure, as soon as you explain this current running gag of yours.
Why don't you take it to a comedy club or something, where they can help you work on your delivery? See, you material has to be "relevant" to the audience, for one thing.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
trach, syrius and upcounrywater
May 27, 2008 - 21:16 ET by shawn228Trach,
I really appreciate you defending me. I am not angry at syrius, i'm sure he was not trying to be mean in anyway. You and I have had a differences, so thanks again.
Syrius.
I'm not sure what I would do, if I saw babes doing it beside my bunk, but there are always exceptions to every rule. "warning, not for the faint of heart"
Upcountrywater.
Syrius and I invade each others space all the time? lol. Very creative and your reference to the Carter boat...even more so. You must have graduated from the Bob Saget school of comedy.
breathing in deeply through the mask...
May 28, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Syrius...the nitrous takes over as I begin to yell, "MOMMY,MOMMY!"-Good ol' Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet
Thanks for the link to the Babe Calender...I ordered a few extra...Anyone need one? Hot babes destined for Fox News! Thanks again, Shawn!
Syrius
Shawn: I really appreciate
May 28, 2008 - 01:08 ET by tracheostomyShawn: I really appreciate you defending me. I am not angry at syrius, i'm sure he was not trying to be mean in anyway. You and I have had a differences, so thanks again.
So if he really was only joking, why'd you feel the need to respond?
And an oh-so-very clever response too, I might add. I loled.
Wonder if he'll even get it.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
shawn, lol-you owe me a keyboard!
May 28, 2008 - 01:12 ET by R D Helm'cause I just hurled all over mine.
Damn, that was hideous!
We are being smothered by government in this country. - Neal Boortz
shawn228, googling Bob Saget got this youtube clip???<foul>
May 28, 2008 - 17:45 ET by upcountrywaterJust so that you know the USS Carter, IS A SUBMARINE..
Soo encounters on the foredeck, would happen @ 200 fathoms.@ 20 knots.
You're a funny guy ,lol you yappin about this guy? bob saget?!
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
No upcountrywater
May 28, 2008 - 22:42 ET by shawn228I was talking about the guy that played Danny Tanner of full house. That might not have been a fair comparision, because I actually found him more funny.
I remember your a sci fi guy right? You remind me sort of a Jedi.
;-)
ew!
May 28, 2008 - 23:27 ET by candanceI was really enjoying this thread until I got here. Why do men think it's so friggin hilarious to joke about two women making out? It's disgusting and insulting to the rest of us.
I'm not a feminist by any means but I do hate the way men casually talk about women as sexual objects.
Trake is right. Act your age.
Candance
June 1, 2008 - 22:42 ET by Unsanecandance, I don't understand the fascination with two women making out either. I have been pilloried by my fellow males for prudishness for that, but to me, it is repulsive.
That being said: trust me, there is no reward for gentlemanly behavior.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane
June 3, 2008 - 00:31 ET by shawn228I don't want to make this thread about two women making, out but you are the first male person, with the exception of a very far right wing boss I had that actually considers it repulsive.
I'm the second one.
June 3, 2008 - 00:32 ET by NL207I'm the second one.
Well this since this thread is about homosexuality.....
June 3, 2008 - 00:36 ET by shawn228I guess female gay sex can be included as well. Oh well since I created this thread, I can turn into whatever direction I want. :-)
It is almost every mans wet dream, what is so repulsive about it?
You actually want to watch
June 3, 2008 - 00:39 ET by NL207You actually want to watch Rosie O'Donnell and some other, similar beast munch carpet?? I'd call that repulsive. In fact, I'd go so far as to say Rosie is repulsive with her clothes on. When you are talking Lesbians, rest assured that most of them don't look like Ellen Degenerate, or whatever her name is.
I think we have figured out
June 3, 2008 - 00:41 ET by RESTLESS 1I think we have figured out Shawn's late night viewing habits.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Unfortunately Restless
June 3, 2008 - 00:48 ET by shawn228Newsbusters is my porn. Marriage and children does that you.
I'm still here, so
June 3, 2008 - 01:16 ET by RESTLESS 1I'm still here, so obviously it is mine too. At least we have the t-shirt ads. :)
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I sure would not NL207
June 3, 2008 - 00:46 ET by shawn228Just like I would not like to watch Helen Thomas make love to Jimmy Carter during straight sex.
However I would find nothing repulsive about Anna Kornicova and Maria Sharpova together.
Did anybody ever tell you
June 3, 2008 - 00:51 ET by NL207Did anybody ever tell you that you are a sick young man?
NL
June 3, 2008 - 00:58 ET by shawn228I was not the one that brought up two women together, that was Syrius. Unsane said he was repulsed by it. That is how it got started. Your brought up an extreme ugly scenario of lesbian sex and I came up with own with straight sex.
Sorry, I do not find watching lesbian sex repulsive, at the same time I am not promoting it.
A post that has the same effect of Syrup of Ipecac
June 3, 2008 - 01:46 ET by UnsaneHowever I would find nothing repulsive about Anna Kornicova and Maria Sharpova together. (muffled sound of Unsane repeatedly vomiting, as the bathroom is some distance from the computer)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane, a great ytube clip
June 3, 2008 - 02:13 ET by upcountrywaterAnna Kornicova and Maria Sharpova
a guy clip
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
Perhaps I should learn to be more grateful
June 3, 2008 - 02:14 ET by UnsaneMethinks I should be VERY thankful that I have a lousy dialup connection and thus won't be able to effectively watch the clip...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
no no it's the sports illistrated swin suit , thing.. WORTH THE
June 3, 2008 - 02:22 ET by upcountrywaterWORLD WIDE WAIT,
dang it like an hour upload man..only 3 minutes .. dial up, better than nothing. ask RD HELM he loved it..
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
A colossal waste of talent.
June 3, 2008 - 02:26 ET by NL207A colossal waste of talent.
what post are your replying to?
June 3, 2008 - 02:31 ET by shawn228What is colossal waste of talent?
Are you dead? If Anna
June 3, 2008 - 02:32 ET by NL207Are you dead? If Anna Kournikova is a cartpet muncher, that is a colossal waste of talent.
why would i be dead?
June 3, 2008 - 02:36 ET by shawn228i don't get it. Also you said "collosal waste of talent" You did not say if.
I'm not going to argue with you about something so trivial.
Disgusting
June 3, 2008 - 01:57 ET by UnsaneIt is almost every mans wet dream, what is so repulsive about it? Um, did you enjoy the pawn shop scene from Pulp Fiction? I for one did not and found that to be far and away the most disturbing scene in the movie.
Now, I see you getting ready to say "but that was two guys!" Yes, but if I was repulsed by that, what is NOT repulsive about watching two women engage in sexual activity?
(This is like some arguments I have gotten into with my fellow males about the virtues of Hispanic/Latin women. I have a major soft spot for dark-complected females such as they. An argument I constantly throw down - and isn't resisted very much once I let it be known - is that if I didn't find women from south of the border attractive, then I could not in good conscience like Italian women either [yet ANOTHER massive weakness of mine].)
Hell, let me ask you this: what do YOU find so appealing about watching two women make out?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Well Unsane
June 3, 2008 - 02:42 ET by shawn228Hispanic and Italian have the same equipment Unsane. The one I don't enjoy watching is the strange thing that looks like a helmet, I especially get grossed out seeing the helmets with a sleeping bag over it.
Also one you enjoy having y bone steak, the other is starfish action. That is the difference.
"
Hell, let me ask you this: what do YOU find so appealing about watching two women make out? "
I would love to answer that question, but unfortunatly I will get blamed for turning this into a porn thread, when it was unsane asked the question.
Morbid curiousity
June 3, 2008 - 03:07 ET by UnsaneHispanic and Italian have the same equipment Unsane. Indeed. But I suppose I could say that about ALL women. Yet, there are those I prefer and those who do absolutely nothing for me.
I would love to answer that question, but unfortunatly I will get blamed for turning this into a porn thread, when it was unsane asked the question. If need be, answer me on another thread. I have to know what is so intriguing about something so disgusting. Call it total morbid curiousity.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
"Indeed. But I suppose I
June 3, 2008 - 03:24 ET by shawn228"Indeed. But I suppose I could say that about ALL women. Yet, there
are those I prefer and those who do absolutely nothing for me."
Very true, same goes for me, but if 2 women are attrative I would not be repulsed by it, No matter how attractive the men are, a sausage fest would repulse me.
"If need be, answer me on another thread. I have to
know what is so intriguing about something so disgusting. Call it
total morbid curiousity."
If you want to create the thread, I will reply. Again, I don't need people saying this shawn guy is obsessed by porn again.
Again...
June 3, 2008 - 15:15 ET by UnsaneVery true, same goes for me, but if 2 women are attrative I would not be repulsed by it, No matter how attractive the men are, a sausage fest would repulse me. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. A "sausage fest" repulses you, yet two attractive women making out is okay. As you should be aware, I have no problem with homosexuality, for if it goes on behind closed doors and its not being waved relentlessly in my face...I have no problems. That being said, I don't wish to subject myself to it, either way.
I don't care if its male on male or female on female, I REALLY don't need to see it. People can carry one behind their closed doors and do that on their own time; just don't involve me.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Lesbians
June 3, 2008 - 15:32 ET by shawn228My God Unsane, this is truly sad. Even though many of the men on NB are conservative, I would imagine most of them can see there is a difference of digust with gay male sex and lesbian sex
Women
soft, feminine,
Men
hard, some have more hair up and down than a chia pet.
Ok, watching two girls that don't like use stick shift, does not turn your crank I get that, but If you as digusted by that as say.... Well since it is the Stanley Cup Finals ..... watching two men pull each other goalies, is pretty silly.
Ugh
June 3, 2008 - 15:41 ET by UnsaneTwo women, two men...
...it's the same thing. Ugh. I do not care to know about or see either.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
I guess you are one of those guy Unsane
June 3, 2008 - 15:54 ET by shawn228That is more attracted to the mental aspect of a woman, that the physical part, but My God just the thought of even two guys in the backseat wearing short and their legs touchiwng each other gives me the heabies. How you can compare that to this
Warning....no nudity but a little graphic. Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Geller from Cruel Intentions.
I guess we are just going to have to part ways here
June 3, 2008 - 16:10 ET by UnsaneThat is more attracted to the mental aspect of a woman, that the physical part You might be surprised. Yes, any woman I elect to spend large quantities of time had beter have a brain - I won't and can't have one any other way - but yes, the physical part does it for me also. I'd have to direct you to a good friend of mine of the female persuasion who asked me the one question no woman should ask me...only because the answer will ALWAYS be the same. She had to ask me "What should I wear?" to an event we were to attend.
I without hesitation said "A skirt!" She threw a fit, and then I pointed out that the entire time I knew her, she ALWAYS wore pants, no matter the weather or time of year. (Interspersed with comments where I insisted that she should wear a skirt.) Which, much to my delight, she DID in fact wear a skirt. Some months later, she said to me "you are such a leg guy!" Which, after thinking about it...she was, and is, right.
But sorry, you won't, and can't, convince me that two women making out is anything short of repulsive.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
shawn
June 3, 2008 - 16:46 ET by candanceLet me see if I can explain this in terms you'd understand.
Conservative men appreciate women who are naturally beautiful. When a woman perverts her sexuality by mocking the very allure God gave her, it becomes repulsive.
I'm sorry Candance
June 3, 2008 - 16:51 ET by shawn228I realize there are many Christian men on this site, which believe lesbian sex goes against God' wishes, but I find it hard to believe the majority of men on this site are disgusted by it. I hope there are some that will be brave enough to admit it.
Didn't you know Candance, men can't get mad cow disease, that because men are pigs.
Shawn - peoples sexual desires here are none of your business
June 3, 2008 - 17:03 ET by Dee BunkYou really think this stuff is appropriate for this site? Why don't you go on match.com or something.
I knew it Dee
June 3, 2008 - 17:15 ET by shawn228Unsane a few others started on this topic, I merely commented and I get blamed. All I said re everyone else sexual desires was I find it hard to believe most men are repulsed by it.
Just have them
June 3, 2008 - 17:05 ET by SyriusJust have them say...
Oink, oink!
and be done with this thread.
Syrius
shawn228, hmmm...I
June 3, 2008 - 17:22 ET by futbolisgreat1shawn228,
hmmm...I believe you are trying to judge other man by your nature and the fallacies that our modern society has created.
The practice of homosexual sex either between two men or two women is disgusting, amoral and evil. I am talking about the action.
Our animal side may find it attractive, but our soul, supernatural side, (which our current society dismisses as if we were only animals) knows better.
I'll admit to all kinds of
June 5, 2008 - 15:03 ET by TruthMongerI'll admit to all kinds of stuff
Christian men have the same kinds of urges as any other men
We just have a certain set of ideals that help us respond to them in a healthy manner
We can't help feelings and emotions - they're involuntary reflex actions, but we all have control over the response
Syrius,
June 1, 2008 - 22:43 ET by UnsaneYou are either highly immature or just very f#!&ing sick.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
A thing is worth only what someone else will pay for it.
June 3, 2008 - 15:09 ET by SyriusUnsane,
I've never been to Hooters. Could you explain why someone would ever go to such an establishment? For the food? Maybe we should find a more appropriate place which would reflect your values and sensibilities. Beer? You like beer? Would you recommend a place for us where we can sit back, have a few pints and not be distracted by women? Politics over women, correct?
It all started when I stated, "Some may want to agree with..." which also allows for "Some who may not want to agree with...". I did not say "all" or "everyone" or "most". I apologize for anyone getting so upset towards me for making a small light hearted comment on "babes". I did not refer to Helen Thomas, nor Rosie, nor the Calender Girls. Of course, as with anything, people had to input their own views of what a "babe" looks like from their mind. It would be inappropriate to believe all people think this way. Some people do think this way and get aroused. The image developed in your mind was from reading a comment to shawn228. You took the chance to attack me. I can take it. Unsane, how certain are your righteous statements? Shall we dig a little into the recent past to see where your true position stands?
Syrius
"Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtu"
Response
June 3, 2008 - 15:28 ET by UnsaneI've never been to Hooters. Could you explain why someone would ever go to such an establishment? For the food? I don't know why people go there. What a horrible place! The food is WAY overpriced, it isn't that great, the service sucks, and the women aren't much to look at. I haven't stepped inside one since I obliged some friends of mine as part of a bachelor party in 2003 and vow never to do so again. Maybe we should find a more appropriate place which would reflect your values and sensibilities. Of which you haven't the slightest clue what they are. Beer? You like beer? Would you recommend a place for us where we can sit back, have a few pints and not be distracted by women? Politics over women, correct?
Me being male, I love the ladies as much as any other heterosexual male...the difference being that I do not behave in a manner such as you seem to.
It all started when I stated, "Some may want to agree with..." which also allows for "Some who may not want to agree with...". I did not say "all" or "everyone" or "most". I apologize for anyone getting so upset towards me for making a small light hearted comment on "babes". I did not refer to Helen Thomas, nor Rosie, nor the Calender Girls. Noted. Of course, as with anything, people had to input their own views of what a "babe" looks like from their mind. Naturlich. It would be inappropriate to believe all people think this way. Concur. Some people do think this way and get aroused. Whatever works. The image developed in your mind was from reading a comment to shawn228. You took the chance to attack me. I can take it. Unsane, how certain are your righteous statements? The deal is that I am FAR from prudish. (Please note my repeated gushing over such women as my favorite of the recent time, Мария Шарапова. I don't gush over her merely due to her abilities at tennis.) However, there are places where I draw the line, and must break ranks with many of my fellow males, as I have repeatedly done in the past. Seeing two women make out is one such arena. Perhaps that works for you. It utterly fails for me and nauseates me. If that works for you, so be it. What I was objecting to was your utterly tactless way of coming out and stating that. It smacks more of what a teenager would say, or what an immature adult would say.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
For NL207
June 1, 2008 - 22:38 ET by UnsaneNL, even Army/Air Force types spend time in tents. Now, granted, it is not the same as being aboard a ship. That being said, in my AF experience, I lived for five weeks in a "bay" at Lackland, and just came off of a deployment when I spent time awaiting transit in tents with about 10-20 males, and roomed with another with the potential of adding 1-2 more people, all of whom would be male.
Hence I am not thrilled at the prospect of homosexuality in the military. Just for shawn228, I should point out that behavior normal for heterosexuals is frowned upon. The mere act of, say, my visiting a female occupied dorm - the mere stepping in the front door on one while deployed in the AOR - would get me into very hot water. This could not be done.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
The Corps deals with this
June 3, 2008 - 00:20 ET by NL207The Corps deals with this on a regular basis in its ground combat MOS'. Outside of survival training, I can't recall ever having been quartered in a tent, although a tent might seem spacious compared to a JO's compartment [these are usually two-pers] or the enlisted racks aboard ship!
But I agree with your observations completely. Any male personnel found in the women's quarters were in deep water. There were no women aboard ship in my time. I can't imagine how the regulations about women in the Navy are dealt with aboard ship nowadays.
Expatriot
June 7, 2008 - 17:38 ET by Jerry MackThe way that it was explained to me and I accepted it was as follows: The loyalty of a shipmate must be for his ship and not his significant other. When you go into battle all energy must be directed toward victory and not be distracted by being overly concerned about your friend.
It has been a long time since I was in the Navy and I did know several gay men. We never judged them on this. Several gays were discharged for having sex on the ship.
Does anyone know what the punishment is for hetrosex happening on a military base or ship?
I'm not in the military, but history says
May 27, 2008 - 15:05 ET by sarcasmoThat "ask, tell, and segregate" is what works. Examples of the outstanding performance of various US segregated units in WW2 shine through our history. Therefore, for maximum bang from the taxpayer's buck, I'd suggest segregation into all-homosexual units where possible. Such units would invariably "have something to prove," and history repeatedly shows they're likely to prove it with distinction, and then, eventually, society won't much care.
It worked in WW2 with a variety of races in multiple circumstances, and I suspect it'll work the same way with sexual orientation, too. I can think of few things scarier to our enemies than a submarine full of angry lesbians with something to prove to the rest of the USA. Sex-segregated units would also naturally reduce the US Navy's substantial pregnancy problem, which costs money & readiness. The only problems with the "ask, tell, and segregate" idea are that it's blatantly politically incorrect to say you want to do any segregation whatsoever these days for any reason, and nobody seems to pay any attention to our history.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
fine, just don't
May 27, 2008 - 15:28 ET by TruthMongerfine, just don't discriminate and leave out all the other lifestyles then - bring in the ped units too, the beastiality units, the necrophilia units, the S&M units, the incest units, the sex toys units, etc, etc:)...
If it's legal
May 27, 2008 - 16:37 ET by sarcasmoAnd the majority of what you suggest isn't, I have no problem with a special unit being formed if they have something to prove. Illegal stuff is irrelevant until you manage to make homosexuality illegal, and S&M fans seem to have nothing to prove. "Ask, Tell & Segregate" saves taxpayers money & gives our military more bang for the buck, as history has repeatedly-shown.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
We did not call them Gay,
May 27, 2008 - 15:15 ET by bassndudeWe did not call them Gay, we called them gone. Thats been a while back, but if there was one in the unit somewhere, out they went.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bassdude
May 27, 2008 - 21:30 ET by shawn228What do you mean gone or out they went? Did they get kicked out of the service? or were they reprimanded and moved elsewhere?
Shawn228, they were given
May 29, 2008 - 10:30 ET by bassndudeShawn228, they were given an undesirable discharge and sent on their way. No benifits, nothing. Used to be, when you enlisted in the Army, you stated you were not of that type. If you were, that was a violation of your contract. If you were caught in the act, on goverment property, it was conceivable to court martial you, send you to jail for a bit, then give you your bad conduct discharge.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Shawn, Let me elaborate on the shipboard life for you.
May 27, 2008 - 21:29 ET by OldSailor88When you are assigned an enlisted E-6 and below berthing, your rack is 6 feet long and 2 1/2 feet wide. They are stacked three high and two deep in double rows that have an 18 inch space between the racks. That is 12 men in a space 12 feet deep with an 18 inch space to walk to the passageway in the center of berthing where the other 150 or so men are sleeping. In these cramped quarters there is absolutely no privacy. In cases such as ours there is no room for an openly gay man to be placed in our spaces. I've seen it, and it's a morale killer. The don't ask don't tell law isn't the norm in the military any more. They will not kick a Sailor out unless he or she is caught in a homosexual act. So, a man or woman can be openly gay, say they are gay, and not be removed from duty as long as they keep their sexual encounters discrete. Don't ask don't tell is not enforced like the media says. In fact, it's just the opposite.
Noli habere bovis, vir!
oldsailor
May 27, 2008 - 21:35 ET by shawn228Thank you for the input. Yes I agree something like that could be a morale killer. Would you say, being openly gay without flaunting it is widely excepted these days?
Nope
May 28, 2008 - 07:16 ET by OldSailor88It is not widely accepted. It is, however, widely tolerated beyond the limits of DA/DT.
Noli habere bovis, vir!