would never support pedophiles. If he thought they actually would he wouldn't say that. Unfortunately it's not out of the realm of possibility with mister centrist Obama as our next President.

Agreed Armed Dad and that can be done with civili unions and priority adoptions.

I totally understand.  It'll take awhile, so no rush.  Take your time.  You'll find quite a few of your own assertions that are posted here will already be dealt with back there.

There have been issues in history that have been put to bed already, and it's way past time to say, "night-night" to this one. 

It's tedious and distracting from larger; more important issues.

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07

Binx: Indeed there is no 'third physical gender' that is autonamous of the
current 'male' and 'female,' but what of people who are born intersexed
or incomplete chomosomal development? Where do they fit?

ANSWER: The intersexed child will fit completely within my scenario because my scenario only looks at this from the gender-roles the child will normally encounter.

This has nothing to do with the gender of the child. My argument is only that the child will receive a fair and equal education about gender identities from both roles.

Binx: I think while you are trying to honestly find answers, you and many
others are terribly oversimplifying the occurance of sexual variance
and the very real discrepancies that occur when hormonal levels. . .[skip]. . .the case of these things is *Very* complex,
whether we wanna deal with that fact or not.

You sir, are forcing the rare exception ---> into the norm. Your pet agenda will always remain the rare exception no matter how hard you force it.

Furthermore, you're deliberately trying to overcomplicate the issue with a bunch of pseudointellectual doubletalking garbage, and everyone here knows it besides you. . .as usual. I'm advocating exposing the child to the two main gender norms first, and then moving upwards from there.

However, you want to avalanche a 3-year-old with the entire spectrum of complexity that spins outward from the GLBT community.

I think we should all agree that a child needs to start with a few basic; consistent behaviors, as well as a few norms, before they understand a true variant for what it is.

Binx: What about the parent's political affiliation?

The child has no grasp of that! This post of yours is just dripping with self-centeredness.

Binx: Wont
two liberal parents raise a child with biases against conservatives?

Why? You have no understanding that we're discussing a process of progressive knowledge here. How can you possibly teach the child what they're against until you teach the child what they're for?

Binx: Lord knows, raised in a conservative household myself, I certainly had
my biases against the left growing up.

What, at the same time that you were learning about basic gender differences? What kind of idiots do you think we are?!??

Binx: What about race? Are you
implying two african americans will raise a child who is racially
biased against any race but their own? Should we enstate rules that
all couples must be inter-raical as well as bi-partisan?

Off-topic. This statement is a red-herring to make it appear as if you have some kind of support behind an issue you don't even understand. The GLBT community you shill for is not a race. It is a sub-culture.

This next generation is going to see race as a non-issue anyway, so it's not going to matter anymore. My best friend's new baby is like, 1/4 African.

Binx: Again, I don't mean to be fecitious, but these are very honest, real
questions that must be taken into account if the excuse used to bar gay
adoption, at least preferential treatment to hetero couples, then these
other issues matter too when questioning the 'fairness' of raising a
child in a potentially 'biased' atmosphere.

These are faux-questions with no substance, period. All you're doing is following up a statement with a vague, "or is it?" statement of your own.

Any child that is raised exclusively by one gender is a form of gender bias and is one that is disadvantaged from children raised closely with both gender roles. Period.

Binx: That said I see in standard form you've decided your own opinions
are to be taken as law. . .

That's moving along just fine without me. And again, why do you give my statements so much more validity than anyone elses?

Binx: . . .but I'm posting this in hopes perhaps you will
realize there IS other things such as what I stated above that need
taken into account before one can call this an open and shut case.

Oh, so this wasn't "just a question" in reality as you claim in the title of your post. You were just here to preach at us. Exactly what "other things" are those that need to be taken into account from a child's POV again?

Come back later when you understand the side you're arguing with. I am advocating the real "second look" here. You are trying to pull this back into the same-old liberal gay-marriage talking points.

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07

Unfortunately we are living in a society where people can't express there thoughts and fears for fear of being attacked by the PC police.

Every single one of us are prejudice and the ones who can admit it are the ones who are doing something about it. It's a natural thing to consider your sex, your race, your nationality, your church, your family or any group you belong to as superior to the ones you don't. To say that you don't only proves that you don't recognize your prejudice.

It's only when we recognize our prejudice (our own - not someone else's) that we can do something about it. None of us can eliminate our thoughts but we can try to control our actions.

I used to be very liberal socially (always been conservative fiscally) until I became pregnant and had a baby growing inside of me. I actually contemplated having an abortion and felt that because I was married and financially stable I couldn't really justify it. I never wanted kids, and neither did my husband. I didn't want to be pregnant and resented the affects it would have on my life and my career.

My child literally and figuratively began to grow on me in such a profound way that I find it abusive to not let the same thing happen to other women. If a child doesn't grow on someone in the end then they can still give it up for adoption. I should add that it also had the same profound affect on my husband who had not wanted children either.

I think Shawn, Jason, Fitzfong, Leon and many others will have a much different view of things when they have children

To follow up on Shawn's point, the problem here is projecting our gut feeling of being "creeped out" or what have you, onto an entire demographic or social group. When I am visiting relatives in the south and see some white trash excuse for a parent smack her kid in KMart, that should not and does not naturally lead me to believe that all white, low-income, obese people from Arkansas should not be allowed to procreate.

As far as how kids will be treated by their peers, this is exactly why I believe that education about the existence of homosexuality should begin at a young age. My wife and I have both worked in high schools at different times in the past couple of years, and the facility with which kids at 15 or 16 will label any and all things as "gay" is alarming. It is their all-purpose insult. If children of same-sex couples are potentially going to be picked on, the solution is not to abolish same-sex couples' right to adopt but to work on the other end of the problem, those who find the concept threatening and worthy of harassment (I am NOT talking about anyone on this thread here, you've all approached the topic with nothing but respect and decency and I appreciate that).

Finally, as to the values they will learn, I think that's immaterial. You wouldn't want any legal policy governing what sort of values you convey to your children either, right? Assuming that they might learn the wrong values presupposes a set of "right" values, the existence of which I find highly dubious.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte