I spent some time going to other blogs today to get a general consensus of how the GOP candidates were faring so far. To my amazement (not really) I found RP supporters to be a bit 'out there' in their support. Below I have posted just a few of their musings in no particular order. WARNING... Some of these postings are offensive. You be the judge.
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f*** the media CNN/fox etc. They should all be shot and skull f***** for their biased/pussy views. Is there something we as citizens can do about the media being biased? Ron Paul your my Hero!!!!
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If not Gore, Ron Paul all the way to the white house! Live free or DIE!
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This Dem hears ya! How about you other Dems, Libs...join in the common cause, our Revolution!
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November 5th was the money bomb.
December 16th is our nuclear option.
There is no alternative - this is the last chance for freedom.
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The pollsters are polling people who:
Voted Republican in the last election (this immediately excludes 50% of Ron Paul's supporters)
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Liberty or death!
Don't worry little americans... if the evildoers steal this election as well, you can count on us europeans to come over to help you kick them out.
Sweden for Ron Paul!
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DONATE ON VETERANS DAY!
WOW -- today we're already pushed the total for the quarter to about $7,950,000.00.
But we must reach our goal of passing $8 million for the quarter today. (check RonPaulCharts)
We must do this because the sorry-ass worthless bastards at FOX are EXCLUDING RON PAUL from the Dec 4th Iowa GOP Debate.
This is War!
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F- you Frank Luntz & faux news!
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im a foriegner ,,, and i donated,,, who says a foreigner cant donate????... have i done something illigal?
if every foreigner who loves what Dr paul stands for donated 10 dollars... man
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RON PAUL 2008-FOREVER
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NO TIME TO WAIT, DONATE NOW!
FOX bastards are laughing their asses off because they've tricked RON PAUL supporters!
They say Ron Paul "hasn't been excluded from the Dec 4th GOP debate."
But has he been "INCLUDED" as Mick Huckabee has?
NO!
The bastards say they'll make an announcement on Ron Paul on Nov 30th.
Candidates have schedules - WHOEVER HEARD OF WAITING SO LATE?
They're doing so, SO NO TIME FOR PROTEST
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An over-extended, Fiat-money financed empire abroad, and a FASCIST POLICE STATE at home. The Neocons currently HIJACKING our country HATE our FREEDOM and loathe our INDEPENDENCE. WE LOVE RON PAUL because he is a Physician-Statesman-Patriot who loves HUMANITY and cares about our LIBERTY!
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Simple, everything that is now currently taking down our country is apposed by Ron Paul (undeclared wars, inflation, destruction of liberty, destruction of freedom, destruction of privacy, destruction of the sovereignty of the USA, worldwide US military occupation, etc. etc.).
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Comments Policy
Lots of quotes
November 12, 2007 - 05:55 ET by sarcasmoAnd why am I not-surprised by 0-links/citations??? Keep on whinin'!
JMR
[Edit: It's no-wonder these guys scare the fans of bigger-government!]
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
I find them rather annoying
November 12, 2007 - 12:58 ET by dscottI find them rather annoying in a liberal kind of way, you know that "I can not just accept you having an opinion contrary to mine, I must argue with you until you give in to my way of thinking" attitude. They need to learn to say their piece and then just shut up! It's called respecting the opinions of others even if you vehemently dissagree. I have no interest in converting Sarc or anyone else to my way of thinking anymore than they should be doing with their incessant salesmen type behavior. At times they act like a bunch of JW or Morman missionaries knocking on everyone's door. You know you what I'm talking about, how many times has the door bell rung and you just don't answer it because you know your opinion is not respected because they simply can't accept the answer NO THANKS without wasting your time while you politely smile trying not to be rude!
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Funny, when the door gets slammed
November 12, 2007 - 13:43 ET by sarcasmoI occasionally sense just a teensy bit of jealousy! But I'm sure it's just in my own biased eyes. And maybe Alexa's graphs. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
To feel jealousy, I would
November 12, 2007 - 14:13 ET by dscottTo feel jealousy, I would need to actually care about what other people think about choosing someone else over me. To be jealous, I would have to be shallow with low self worth needing people to approve of me. Sarc, do you really think I give a !$%#^&*?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Maybe not you...
November 12, 2007 - 14:19 ET by sarcasmoBut the charge apples to RedState, for sure. Just take a look at my little mocking conversation about their "standard" for raunchy language! Or, go take a look at that Alexa-graph, and that one poster's right, ronpaulforums kicks-ass on them-all, including the Daily Paul!
Admitting to web heavy traffic isn't supporting Dr. Paul, it's just honesty about what's happening in realityville. Can you at-least admit we've got heavy traffic these days?? I hope so. And obviously, I find the RedState ban HILARIOUS, if a bit typically-dishonest for big-government Republicans. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> sarc
November 12, 2007 - 14:27 ET by Cool ArrowDoes it really surprise you that you're not having any luck selling Mopeds at a Harley convention.
Sure, the gas mileage is better, but the clientelle is all wrong.
I don't get it?
November 12, 2007 - 14:38 ET by sarcasmoI'm not trying to "sell mopeds," I am mocking a double-standard as well as pointing out the reality of dominant web-traffic, even over a monster-Democrat site like the Daily Kos. Is there something wrong with that?? Why not just admit the obvious. We "own" the internet. Period. It's fun to watch people who can't deal with it, I must admit, but reality remains reality. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Mocking a double standard
November 12, 2007 - 14:51 ET by Cool ArrowOK, mock on, dude.
But recognize your efforts appear to be an attempt at reasoning us into the Ron Paul tent.
I guess "Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul" must mean different things to different people.
Oh, the horror.
November 12, 2007 - 14:55 ET by sarcasmoI have a signature file. How will innocent NewsBusters ever survive to make up their minds on thier own???
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Decision 2008
November 12, 2007 - 15:07 ET by Cool ArrowOne conclusion:
Making up one's mind necessarily involves the inclusion of exclusion.
LOL, good snarky analogy
November 12, 2007 - 14:57 ET by dscottLOL, good snarky analogy CA.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
}}---> Ron Paul
November 12, 2007 - 13:56 ET by Cool ArrowI think Dr. Paul is raising the level of debate.
I agree with him on several points. Much of his argument is water under the bridge.
When we were building up to Iraq, my contention was that the Dems really wanted war or else they would have argued the following:
15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. So you are attacking Iraq. I guess we all look alike to you.
IMHO this bit of logic alone would have stopped the Drums of war. But I'm not now willing to turn tail and run.
I think Dr. Paul is certainly more honest than Rudy or Romney, but I'm hoping neither of them wins the nomination either.
Do his supporters scare me? No. Please understand I'd have to feel threatened to be scared.
Hillary scares me, Ron Paul and his supporters don't
Cool...
November 12, 2007 - 14:40 ET by Clear thinkerI agree with him on a few points also, on economic stuff.
His foreign policy stuff, not so much.
Besides, he does not scare me, his supporters do. Each of the postings I copied and listed above have their own take on things (ok, a couple are redundant). One guy/gal says "if not Gore, then Ron Paul".
Words like 'revolution' used more than once. I for one would like to know what type of revolution they are talking about. My guess is they ain't talking about a Reagan type revolution!
Anyway, if you start to pick apart what they are saying you have to wonder who these people are. At least that's my take.
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Here's another scary
November 12, 2007 - 16:15 ET by Clear thinkerHere's another scary comment I just copied from an RP site...
"GO RON PAUL GO DENNIS KUCINICH"
Yikes!
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Heh. Sounds like one of the Democrats...
November 12, 2007 - 16:28 ET by sarcasmoBut still no-cite. What a shocker. Wanna see something REALLY scary, though? Watch how creative & innovative Mitt's supporters are! I'm inspired... ;)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Good sarc
November 12, 2007 - 16:51 ET by Cool ArrowYour persuasive powers are tremendous.
"You're voting for Romney? You're stupid, you should vote for Ron Paul"
No, we've quit following your invitations into the same old land of OZ. Ain't gonna follow you there no more.
Frankly, tired of this "mommy come look. I pooped in the potty" routine.
You can look or not if you like
November 12, 2007 - 19:12 ET by sarcasmoBut the fact remains, we're being copied, just as my link you whined-about says. And believe me, the Daily Paul doesn't need our traffic.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Once again sarc
November 13, 2007 - 01:43 ET by Cool Arrow"We ain't following you to Oz" means we refuse to follow the links you are providing. We know where they lead and they're boring.
We've seen this "One Trick Pony" "Jump the Shark" too many times to fall for it again. You're not Fonzie and it wasn't all that entertaining when he did it either.
OK, Ron Paul is being copied. He's copying others and nobody really seems to point that out. So let him follow the rumps of the Democrats as they tuck tail and run from Iraq.
If we really wanted somebody who knows how to surrender, we'd draft Jimmy Carter. He's already got a proven record and a legal right to run again.
When did you reproduce??
November 13, 2007 - 02:06 ET by sarcasmoAre there really more than one of you posting as "Cool Arrow" with all that moronic punctuation??? Plenty of people on the 'net apparently ARE following those links, despite your (once-again) whines. And if you have proof we're copying others like Mitt's copying us, don't BS or whine about it, LINK TO PROOF. None of the Democrats wants to leave Iraq, they just want to lose in a different way than Dubya's way. You know you're full of crap when you compare this campaign to Jimmy Carter.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Ron Paul (once again)
November 13, 2007 - 02:46 ET by Cool ArrowMaybe we should be afraid of the Nouveau Guy Fox movement. Maybe you're offering a thinly veiled warning. Are you?
OK, so maybe Ol' Doc Adams is a kindly ol' Dodge City sawbones, and it's the Festus Haggin element we should fear.
Come to think of it, Ron Paul followers should be feared. They have a rabid agenda that rivals the most enraged Tasmanian devil when they are not agreed with.
Paul followers are also militantly arrogant that their answers are 100% right. Not a chance Paul supporters will go away with a simple "no thank you". Just hand me the Ron Paul "Watchtower" and go on to the next house, will ya?
They are always spoiling for argument ad nauseum on points like "he stole my campaign idea". So the frick what?
Obviously, the time to really start worrying is when a Paul supporter becomes suddenly silent.
And though it won't be you, sarc, it will be somebody within that "rally online" clicque.
Start lacing up your backpeddling shoes.
Funny
November 13, 2007 - 03:20 ET by sarcasmoIf I offer warnings, they're explicit. And in my history books, Guy's last name was "Fawkes." I'm not backpeddaling at all, but I'm making fun of someone who obviously needs it. You. And you never answered me, either -- did you reproduce, or was that "the royal we"? Note how you DON'T want to discuss issues (like the hilariously now-bipartisan copy-Ron-Paul epidemic!) and instead want to make things personal? I just did.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> sarc's proving my point
November 13, 2007 - 03:38 ET by Cool ArrowI knew the play on Fox vs Fawkes might be lost on you. Yes, I feel pretty comfortable with the "we" pronoun as it was used, and, your reference to punctuation is really lame.
After reconsideration, sarc, I did answer the question presented in this thread:
YES, I FEAR RON PAUL SUPPORTERS. They openly ridicule the logic of others. They carry a big disfranchisement chip on their shoulders that I believe will one day pop like a boil infecting the surrounding tissue.
If I've misspelled anything, please educate me.
You're the one with the chip on your shoulder
November 13, 2007 - 04:16 ET by sarcasmoI'm just linking, to the sound of your whines about it, as the thread reveals to anyone reading it. And yes, sometimes your "logic" deserves ridicule, so I guess you'll just need to deal with it. Sorry I didn't get your Fox-joke, if it was a joke, but the joke's on big government Republicans if you think about it. The small government side raised $4.2 million that day. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> No, sarc
November 13, 2007 - 04:52 ET by Cool ArrowThe chip is on your shoulder. You're obsessed with Ron Paul. You badger others about him until they turn away, and then you follow them with your unending inane banshee taunts.
Please understand that for most of us, like it or not, you represent everything we know of the Ron Paul campaign.
Frankly, you're not doing him any favors. But you know that. You just don't know how to stop.
Look at the very start of this thread
November 13, 2007 - 05:03 ET by sarcasmoAnd tell me who has that chip. I still say it's you.
And like it or not, I'm NOT Ron Paul. He's a much nicer guy than I am, and you can find out all you want on his site, no thanks to the biased news media (as you just essentially-admitted, by trying to say it's all about me!). It's not about me, or the campaign would not be taking-off the way it is, despite the cries of fans of big government, left and right. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Ok Sarc, it's time to cool
November 13, 2007 - 09:20 ET by dscottOk Sarc, it's time to cool your jets. I do believe you have proved my point about Ron Paul supporters being annoying. So you said your peace about Ron Paul, point taken, move on.
btw- did you ever get the tags for the golf cart to be street legal?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
CA... Please understand
November 13, 2007 - 12:30 ET by Clear thinkerCA...
Please understand that for most of us, like it or not, you represent everything we know of the Ron Paul campaign.
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head. It's because of sarcs constant bowing at the alter of RP that I started this thread.
RP doesn't worry me in the least. His supporters though seem downright confrontational. "All hail to RP", if not, we are gonna track you down!
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I know I'm quick to defend
November 13, 2007 - 16:57 ET by BinxlyI know I'm quick to defend Sarc, but in this case I do believe the topic could be seen as a baited thread in which sarc knew people would respond, therefore increasing traffic and allowing him to speak more on Dr. Paul. I do genuinely believe (and many disagree) that he *does* believe he has our best interests in mind and posts links to let you know certain facts that lead him and many others to the camp of Ron Paul. From a strategic standpoint, if this site was not so partisan for the most part (not a bad thing necessarily, its nice to hear the views from the right and right of center as opposed to the media's droning of the left's agenda) then I would think it would be a very successful strategy.
Start a contraversial topic, people will respond, it wil be perpetually bumped to the top, leading guests and new 'newsbusters' to stumble upon it, perhaps click a link, and maybe even gain a new supporter.
I have spoken to Sarc in pms before, and I can assure you, just like many of us on here, when its not conversation on a hot button issue where both sides disagree, he's a pretty funny/cool guy. I am aware though that he is very passionate, as many of us are, but as you just said CT, sometimes it reaches a point where no one is listening anymore and those who will already are and the conversation needs a break.
Its not that sarc is what you see of the Ron paul movement that bothers me, its that you view all of us as being offstandish, rude, arrogant people who have no respect for dissenting opinion. I can assure you many RP supporters ARE that way, but so are many Fred, Guiliani, and Romney supporters. Each camp has its psychos, crazies, and people we push to the back so not to cause a scene. I hope you know some Ron Paul supporters are very aggressive in their views of him, but most of us merely say our piece, sit back and let dissenting opinions be spoken, but its foolish to think if someone attacks him that we would not defend him. I think the problem here is knowing when to say 'ok, I know what you think and why you feel that way and you know my stance as well.....we disagree....simple as that.'
Binx, it's like this...
November 14, 2007 - 07:15 ET by sarcasmoNot all objectors (think "big government Republicans" who are smart-enough not to admit it!) are all that honest about what they object-to about this campaign. Some of the nuttier supporters are easy targets, but IMO what they really-fear is the candidate. ;)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Romeo and Juliet
November 16, 2007 - 12:14 ET by UnsaneBinxly, for some strange reason, though I am nowhere near an MP3 player or a CD player, I keep hearing Tchakovsky's "Romeo and Juliet" anytime you post to defend your fellow Ron Paul worshipper.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Funny
November 20, 2007 - 09:35 ET by BinxlyCause everytime I see your posts I hear faint sounds of old nursery rhymes. Must be because people who act like big babies and can't make a single post without acting like a child prefer that kind of music.
Seriously, you've proven to be nothing but an incendiary poster who, while having viable opinion on important issues, destroys any credibility or desire to listen from others by acting like their shoe size and not their age.
Binx, check this column out
November 20, 2007 - 09:59 ET by sarcasmoIt's less-unfair than I'd have expected, while still not bad, if that makes any sense. Dr. Paul either is or is-not being attacked, depending on which paragraph you're reading. ;)
The conclusion is scary, and of course he's wrong about the only candidate on the Republican side with a chance against Hillary, but it's still worth reading because IMO it's somewhat-surprising Jonah's smart-enough to fear Huckabee's rampant statism.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Huckabee/Paul
November 20, 2007 - 10:45 ET by RJI had already seen this excellent column, sarky, and I agree with most of what he said. As you know, I won't vote for Paul because of his Iraq position, but I think Huckabee is as dangerous as Hillary or any of the other Democrat candidates. Among his many faults is his stance on illegal aliens, because he would continue the push for amnesty.
BTW, The best line in the article was the accurate labeling of Huckabee as a RIGHT WING PROGRESSIVE.
Best line for me
November 20, 2007 - 11:01 ET by sarcasmo"[H]is campaign lunchroom looks like the 'Star Wars' cantina" does bring a smile, possibly because I've experienced our diversity firsthand. His prognostications about who'll win & who'll lose are worth exactly goose-egg until Jonah takes a flight to London or Moscow.
In those cities & others across the globe, there exist very kind people called "bookies." They'd be happy to pay for Jonah's entire European vacation in "free" Euros around election-time -- IF, that is, Jonah's not totally full of crap! Somehow, places like Ladbroke's stay in business despite offering these great deals. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
For the sycophant
November 21, 2007 - 07:29 ET by UnsaneSeriously, you've proven to be nothing but an incendiary poster who, while having viable opinion on important issues, destroys any credibility or desire to listen from others by acting like their shoe size and not their age. I see you are a fan of Prince! Or, is that "the artist"?
It is NEVER a bad idea to sometimes raise a little hell to get an idea across. Your paramour, Sarcasmo, does the same and is quite proud of it.
I constantly listen to others. (Of course, you define "listen" as "100% universal agreement with Binxly/Sarcasmo", so in that sense, no I don't listen.) What angers you is that I have a spine and a series of principles that govern how I view people philosophically or politically. Too bad.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Forgive my crassness there
November 21, 2007 - 10:36 ET by BinxlyForgive my crassness there unsane, admittedly sometimes I too get easily annoyed and speak before the required breath and though of wording before doing so. I do *not* think you or your posts are useless, I just don't like it when me and sarc agree, no matter how much you *disagree*, and instead of simply stating why you think we are wrong, or merely just stating you think we are, you offer up some slam on us personally.
I really don't mind that we differ in opinion on this, and again, as much as I support Ron Paul, I too want victory in Iraq, but as 'hot' as that area is currently, I personally believe that even if Iraq and its surrounding troubled nations were to create more problems for us here in the US, we would not be seen as having enough reason to pre-emptively attack. Admittedly, when I heard Ron Paul at his rally, I loved everything he said *except* his foreign policy. I too thought he was just a loon on that issue. I wasn't even sure 100% that he had my vote. However, and I can't even begin to convey it in the way he did that night, but there is something to be said about going into a nation on the idea of retaliation of an attack of the few from said nation.
Terrorism is indeed an evil means to an end, no matter how just the end, at least in today's definition of the world. I would love if we could end violent acts of islamofascist terrorist attacks, but frankly, a war focused on ending a *tactic* is foolish. Something always smelt like a PR bomb to me. I felt like rather than saying 'we are waging war on Islamofascism,' our nation's leaders, so *concerned* they might upset a muslim, decided to codify the term of who we were waging was on in a different way. The issue was and still is, when mentioning 'terrorism' we and most other world nations are refering to the various islamofascist groups in the middle east and their actions.
Where I think Ron may have a *potential* point, (again not 100% sure or even 80% sure he's correct but its worth a look,) is that here we are, marching into an already unstable region, known for it's interborder spats between different sects of the same religion, as well as others who fight for their own autonomy within said nation, and we wonder how the islamofascist organizations is so successful in their recruitment. Ron basically said that we *were* justified for going after Bin Laden, going after those who orchestrated the events of 9/11, but that when we invaded a nation for the transgressions of groups that had a minor presence in that nation (Iraq) we in turn 'stirred the pot' and gave the islamofascists the kindling needed to light a fire under their people.
Point is, we are in *their* nation. Trust me unsane, I'm with you in saying, I would rather be fighting the Nazi's in Nazi Germany than defending ourselves from them at home, but this situation could possibly, and in my *opinion* is a different situation. People over in Iraq are not the most fortunate nor prosperous, and it is well known that lesser developed nations are indeed envious of the lifestyle we as Americans are blessed with. However, while we are over there, their own people spin the story, portraying *US* as the enemy, the invaders who wish to pillage, plunder, and rape your nation and rob it of what little dignity and prosperity it has. I for one am not a non-interventionalist, I am more for acting behind the curtain and pulling strings to orchestrate the revolution of freedom within the people, rather than with actual physical aid of our own soldiers.
Basically, the reason I think there *might* be truth to Ron's message that we should no longer be in Iraq in a physical sense is because *if* we pull out, and they attack again, that fervor we had as a nation just days after 9/11 will be re-ignited and then military action against those responsible, will then again be seen as 'necessary' and the nay-sayers of today will revert back to the clarity they had post 9-11, that these people are dangerous, and if they attack us unprovoked, then it is an act that justifies retaliation. Secondly, *if* they do not follow us home or attack us in a way similar to 9/11, I can assure you with no US presence in Iraq, no military action nor imposing on the nation, the repressed people will again remember it is not because of *us* that they are poor, lack opportunity, and are oppressed, but rather it is because of their heavy-handed, inflexible and crooked leaders and religious intolerance that has lead to such an outcome, and, it can only be hoped, that then Iraq's people (and other countries ran on islamofascist principles) will rise up and wrest the power from those who would abuse it and reform *themselves* as our nation had so many years ago.
I know some of that, or all of it, you may find foolish or disagree with, that I do not mind. There is plenty of your views I disagree with and personally view as foolish, but again, that's the beauty of opinion; it differs from person to person. I only get annoyed when the topic strays into personal attack. i know no one is innocent of it, but I simply would rather focus on the issue rather than drop immature comments because two people tend to have a similar opinion on a particular issue. Again though, I am sorry for my own recent immature comment, my mouth gets ahead of my brain at times, and you are not the only guilty party of taking a debate and bringing it intothe muck with personal assaults. I just wanted to be clear that that issue is pretty much the only bother I have with your posts. I actually enjoy the disagreements we have when it sticks to the issue and to facts, let's just keep the personal slams to sports smack talk and I'll try and teach my mouth to pace itself. :-P
Short on time, but...
November 21, 2007 - 16:44 ET by UnsaneTerrorism is indeed an evil means to an end, no matter how just the end, at least in today's definition of the world. I would love if we could end violent acts of islamofascist terrorist attacks, but frankly, a war focused on ending a *tactic* is foolish. Foolish? So, Spain should just happily turn over the Basque country to the ETA? Britain should just leave Northern Ireland? Thailand should just abandon its southernmost provinces? Morocco should give the Polisario Front everything it wants and then some?
Why even bother having a military then, Binxly?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
I did not say retaliation,
November 27, 2007 - 17:35 ET by BinxlyI did not say retaliation, or even pre-emptive attacks on groups and militia who are guilty of harm upon innocents, however, my point was to focus on the groups themselves. I meant that to think we can 'end terrorism' is like thinking you can end free thought. Both are basically polar opposites, but both will continue to exist centuries from now, whether we live in a free utopia, or a world wide facist order. I DON'T think we should just lie down and die, I DON'T think we should give up in the battle to defend true freedom, but I think we focus too much on the idea of 'terrorism.' Anyone can be considered a terrorist if the semantics are twisted enough. Someone who screams outside your window at all hours of the night can be considered a terrorist. Someone who speaks out against a particular religion, in a religion-run state, such as the muslim faith in Iran, can be seen as a terrorist.
My point was, the terminology is subjective. To many Iraqis we are (wrongfully so) seen as 'terrorists.' My point was to quit this witchhunt to end 'terrorism' and simply vow to bring to justice groups and members of them to justice should they turn to violent acts of protest among innocent citizenry. I have no problem that we're at war with various Islamofacist terror organizations, but to focus on a term, you can twist the semantics so that the enemies who fall *under* that term is always malleable. I like have a *definative* enemy to focus on. We do have that, but I just cringe at all this 'war on terror' talk. It'd be GREAT if you could end terrorism indefinately, but thats like setting out to make all children play nice. Just as much as there will always be people who feel the need to bully others, there will always be those unsatisfied with the current state of things, and the dangerous belief that the only way to fix it and be heard is through eye-catching, violent acts of protest.
Retort
November 28, 2007 - 04:51 ET by UnsaneI did not say retaliation, or even pre-emptive attacks on groups and militia who are guilty of harm upon innocents, however, my point was to focus on the groups themselves. I meant that to think we can 'end terrorism' is like thinking you can end free thought. Again, you are showing yourself to be a defeatist. Yes, terrorism CAN be ended by a variety of means. Both are basically polar opposites, but both will continue to exist centuries from now, whether we live in a free utopia, or a world wide facist order. I DON'T think we should just lie down and die, Congratulations! You just contradicted yourself. You are saying “ho-hum, why bother, terrorism will always be with us”, while also saying we shouldn’t give up the fight! Which is it? For me, we MUST keep up the fight and perpetually remain vigilant. I DON'T think we should give up in the battle to defend true freedom, but I think we focus too much on the idea of 'terrorism.' Well, that is the threat we face right now. Anyone can be considered a terrorist if the semantics are twisted enough. Someone who screams outside your window at all hours of the night can be considered a terrorist. Someone who speaks out against a particular religion, in a religion-run state, such as the muslim faith in Iran, can be seen as a terrorist. Well, now you’re talkin’! Binxly, I have studied that issue in detail – I HAD to in order to write a paper on it. You are right in that the definition CAN be fluid – but if I can unearth it, I will share with you a composite definition I came up with, and see if you agree. This being said, I think that all of us will agree that what happened on 11 September 2001 was in fact terrorism.
My point was, the terminology is subjective. To many Iraqis we are (wrongfully so) seen as 'terrorists.' Says who? My point was to quit this witchhunt to end 'terrorism' and simply vow to bring to justice groups and members of them to justice should they turn to violent acts of protest among innocent citizenry. But “terrorism” is so much more concise!!! I have no problem that we're at war with various Islamofacist terror organizations, but to focus on a term, you can twist the semantics so that the enemies who fall *under* that term is always malleable. I like have a *definative* enemy to focus on. Sheesh. You and about a million men in arms in this country. I would LOVE for there to be a “Cold War” type setting where I knew who my enemy was and what the war of tomorrow would be like. BUT…we have what we have. We do have that, but I just cringe at all this 'war on terror' talk. It'd be GREAT if you could end terrorism indefinately, but thats like setting out to make all children play nice. When I was growing up, teachers would monitor the playground to make sure the children play nice. Should we just send the teachers packing? Just as much as there will always be people who feel the need to bully others, there will always be those unsatisfied with the current state of things, and the dangerous belief that the only way to fix it and be heard is through eye-catching, violent acts of protest. Congratulations!!! THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A FREAKING MILITARY!!! Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Count me out if Kucinich Comes Aboard
November 21, 2007 - 09:22 ET by EllisWyattI'm supporting Paul, but not if he joins forces with Kucinich.
If you're not outraged at the media, you haven't been paying attention.
He won't
November 21, 2007 - 09:26 ET by sarcasmoDennis is a socialist. The ideal (and most-upsetting to those who need upsetting, IMO) VP candidate is Prof. Williams. He has the advantage of 0 "executive experience" raising spending and taxes, and I like that. Plus Mrs. Paul said nice things about him when I mentioned Williams to her when we met.
And by coincidence, I just stumbled-across an article about the media's treatment of both Paul & Kucinich.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Do Ron Paul supporters scare you? Yes!
November 12, 2007 - 16:40 ET by Free StinkerDo Ron Paul supporters scare you? Yes!
Just kidding. ;-)
Hillary scares me . . .
}}---> Stinker
November 13, 2007 - 03:20 ET by Cool ArrowI think sarc is starting to convince me.
Why would he ask if Paul supporters scare us if he didn't think maybe we're taking them lightly at our peril.
I'm certainly not opening any letters the Paul Campaign might mail out. Likely there's a manifesto hitting the Net any day now.
Paul, in all likelyhood, is a good person. Problem is, his apostles are out of control.
I think the whiners here are out of control
November 13, 2007 - 03:25 ET by sarcasmoSo I guess we're even. And I think what's feared but not-admitted by big-government Republicans who hate our campaign's victories is smaller government in-fact. They're used to small-government rhetoric in campaigns, but they instinctively-know this Texan's not a stadium-welfare-case, so he's likely to follow through on those words he says. It would scare me, too, if I liked big government but didn't want to honestly-admit it. :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> again, lame reply
November 13, 2007 - 03:43 ET by Cool ArrowMaybe your reply isn't lame after all. You answered with an observation on Republicans, and Ron Paul's agenda, but not a word on how "we" should react to Ron Paul's followers.
So is this thread about Ron Paul or his followers?
Why did you leave the Kazinski reference hanging?
Is that something you want "out there"?
Nope, I'm right on target
November 13, 2007 - 04:13 ET by sarcasmoThe elephant in the room is the scared big-government Republicans, who don't want that big government to go on a diet. NO big government Republican is EVER willing to admit to being one, though. The newly-plural you can react to Paul supporters as you please.
This thread is a whine-heavy & source-light rant by "Clear" Thinker, so I'll say what I want about Presidential candidates here, as usual. And what "Kazinski reference"???
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
}}---> Big Government
November 13, 2007 - 04:33 ET by Cool ArrowI'm for smaller government. Much smaller government. I just don't see Ron Paul taking me there.
And what "Kazinski reference"??? Sorry if I gave you more credit than you deserve in the discernment category. Opening letters? Manifesto?
Never mind.
And I don't see any of the others taking ME there.
November 13, 2007 - 04:41 ET by sarcasmoI see a bunch of RINOs who have, for decades, stolen libertarian rhetoric while governing Democrat-lite. I'm tired of it, just as I'm tired of all the whines about a Republican candidate's grassroots success. NOBODY here has admitted to being upset by Paul's small government beliefs, but because they're beliefs and not just rhetoric, I still suspect some folks are. Maybe not you, but some people here, for sure...It's beyond-obvious.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
The pro-China, pro-Canada, pro-EU candidate
November 16, 2007 - 12:18 ET by UnsaneThe smaller government part doesn't scare me in the least.
What I find unnerving is Paul's desire to make the United States so pathetically weak in foreign policy...so weak and whiny it'll be to the point where Costa Rica can kick our asses. No thanks.
Paul is THE candidate to make Canada, China, and the EU world hyperpowers.
If that's what you call whining (in Sarc's world, legitimate criticism of Paul = whining), SO BE IT.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Do R. Paul supporters scare
November 12, 2007 - 19:24 ET by bigtimerDo R. Paul supporters scare me?
Surely you jest!
We sure wouldn't have a strong country as we know it left if he was in charge...
I'll put this link in here in case anybody wants to hear his own words about him not being an isolationist....and not liking the UN...there is plenty of hypocrisy there if you listen to both parts, it is less than ten minutes.
Wanting to get-out of the UN
November 13, 2007 - 02:08 ET by sarcasmoDoes not preclude expecting them to do their jobs with the tax money we over-feed them. If he's pro-UN and Bush is anti-UN in your book, you simply haven't done much reading on this subject.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
RP supporters
November 13, 2007 - 16:15 ET by Clear thinkerRP supporters update...
Here's two more that I just picked off the grapevine:
People, we are going to have to FINANCE our own salvation. Skip the extra toys from Wal-Mart this Christmas season and give your children a real present; it's called FREEDOM. Donate $100 to Ron Paul on the 16th! DO IT!!!x I am going to donate $500 and then I will have to use someone else's name to donate another $2,300. I'm at my limit. But I am not stopping there. SCREW THE NEOSCUM.
.....
Ron Paul 2008!
Remember to Re-Register as Republican and Vote in the Primaries.
.....
The guy/gal telling folks to skip extra toys obviously has no kids. The second suggestion may be legal, but it sure ain't ethical IMHO.
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
SCREW THE NEOSCUM.
November 13, 2007 - 16:22 ET by MightyMouthHey Free, who do you think they are talkin about? Neoscum?...hmmm. Ah! The new "Congress"!...that must be it!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
How about the guy saying he
November 13, 2007 - 16:43 ET by Clear thinkerHow about the guy saying he has already donated his limit and openly admits he will break the law and donate in another name?
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
The ends ALWAYS justifies the means...
November 14, 2007 - 10:29 ET by MightyMouth...At least thats what some people believe...
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I believe
November 14, 2007 - 10:33 ET by sarcasmoI once-again see no citation, probably because it's another Daily Paul troll who was shouted down, just like trolls here get shouted down, but showing that would not be convenient. Challenge to "Clear" "Thinker": Provide context. Prediction: Silence, again, just as with all the BS above! But prove me wrong!!
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Sarc... For the record, I
November 14, 2007 - 16:24 ET by Clear thinkerSarc...
For the record, I am not getting these pearls from the daily paul.
Not one person has objected to any of the comments made on the site where I'm getting these, and there are an awful lot of people posting.
I will reveal the site after the primary, unless of course someone finds it before then. I would hate to have an RP supporter like you go there and tell people to shut up. This way we get a clear picture of what these people are doing and saying.
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
Your credibility with me is minimal at best.....
November 16, 2007 - 13:57 ET by sarcasmoSo sans citations you can expect what a citation-free lefty around here gets, since your tactics are identical. I doubt you're telling the truth about no-objectors, because I've seen you not tell the truth before when it's convenient for you, and I've called you out on it then as now. But since this has become a cut and paste fest, I'll do the same.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is the only choice for Jews and Christians who wish to vote with integrity and who love Zion.
Anti-Semitism has skyrocketed! According to a 2004 study by the Christian Science Monitor by the Anti-Defamation League.
We believe that many well-intentioned organizations, such as the ADL and AIPAC, fuel negative perceptions about Jews by lobbying the U.S. government to support Israel and by divesting U.S. taxpayer dollars to Israel without consent of American taxpayers. .
The U.S. Foreign Policy gives twice as much money to sworn enemies of Israel.
Ron Paul is good for Israel and Good for Jews.
The G-d of Host tells us that Israel will never again disappear from the face of the earth after the return of Exile to land of Israel. And also we are plainly told by the prophets that making alliances for protection rather than trusting G-d is a sin.
But, more than that, it is just a bad policy in several ways. As mentioned the present policy gives great sums of money to enemies of Israel as a payment for safety. This disrespects our G-d, our Faith and our people and is a sin. Secondly, it is unconstitutional and unpopular.
As people who value integrity, honesty, and the rule of law that allows us to practice our religion in freedom we should respect the rule of law and not demand that it be broken, even for a “good cause”. As Ron Paul says “most evil done in the world was done with good intentions.”
Jews should stand behind Ron Paul because he is a man of no compromise and character that no other candidate has. Even when doing what was right by following the constitution is unpopular. The present policy violates the Jewish people and faith in the following ways.
1) Ahavat Yisroel –Love of Jewry - one Jewish people, indivisible and united, from which flows the love for and the feeling of pain of all Jews. In the end -- with few exceptions -- the Jew can look to no one but another Jew for help and that the true solution is a united and Powerful State in Eretz Yisroel -- the land of Israel.
Through the history and tradition of the Jewish faith there is a pattern of great victories after “standing still” and trusting G-d. Then in fear making “entangling alliances” for defense against the word of the prophets which angers G-d and ends poorly for the Jewish people.
It was not long ago that in 6 days Israel stood against the entire Middle East victorious. Now just a few decades later Israel has lost its faith in G-d and is relying on political alliances which G-d is against. (Isaiah 30). What has the aliance done for Israel but make them make unecesary concessoins and emboldening the enemy. not to mention giving billions in military aid and money to sworn enemies of Israel. The U,S policy ties Israels hands and is pro-palestinian.
Furthermore the unholy alliance with both with middle east countries and in US politics with Right Wing Christians espousing a silent holocaust of “perfection”, as Ann Coulter said, violates Jewish Hadar – Dignity, Pride and disrespects the Jewish tradition, culture, land, history, strength, pain, people and Faith. Ron Paul’s policy protects Jewish Hadar is Pride and Dignity in being a Jew. Hadar Yisroel.
Barzel Yisrael -- iron -- the need to change the Jewish image through sacrifice and strength. The Galut image of the Jew as a weakling, as one who is easily stepped upon and who does not fight back is an image that must be changed. Not only does that image cause immediate harm to Jews but it is a self-perpetuating thing. Because a Jew runs away or because a Jew allows himself to be stepped upon, he guarantees that another Jew in the future will be attacked because of the image that he has perpetuated.
The alliance with the United States has weakened Jewish Barzel. Israel is strong and can stand up to the world. The image of Israel hiding behind the U.S. weakens us and further damages Jewish dignity and pride. Israel in solidarity with each other and faith in G-d will succeed.
Furthermore, the Israel lobby in America is a large part evangelical Christians who have their own agenda which is not in the best interest of Jews. Leading their silent holocaust of conversion / “perfection” these faithful have a vision of John’s Apocolypse and are marching toward it in a self fullfiling prophecy hoping to speed it up for the return of their “messiah.” Certainly this alliance objectionable and against Jewish interest’s and a insult to our G-d.
The foreign policy and alliance for protection with the west hurts Jewish Discipline and Unity (Mishmaat), pride, respect and Faith in the Jewish Lord of Host.
It was the lack of discipline and Jewish unity that led continually to the destruction of the Jewish people. It is Jewish unity and self-discipline that will lead to the triumph of the Jewish people.
What is this Discipline and Unity? The discipline of sitting still unwavering in our Faith of G-d and Jewish Faith, The other Candidates deny and discount our G-d and faith, Ron Paul speaks the same answers that the Prophet Isaiah gave.
"…that take counsel, but not of Me; and that make alliances, but AGAINST MY WILL…"
"Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your SHAME, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt YOUR HUMILIATION."
"They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a SHAME, and also a REPROACH."
"…to a people that SHALL NOT PROFIT THEM."
"Their strength is to SIT STILL." And trust in the Lord not in man and certainly not to manipulate policy to pursue a unconstitutional and unpopular war.
This can only lead to people blaming the war and all the problems on Jews! THIS POLICY IS VERY BAD FOR JEWISH PEOPLE AND ISRAEL.
IN THE DAY OF THE GREAT SLAUGHTER,
WHEN THE TOWERS FALL" (Isa 30:25)
Ron Paul does consider Israel our friend. Knowing that Ron Paul would require a declaration of war and then come and kick butt and take no names is much scarrier in my opinion for countries like Iran than the present policy.
The U.S. military is weak and world image ruined because of all the deployments in this unjust war. Israel is much less safe than before. There are more terrorists than before and the enemies of Israel are being armed with money they receive from the U.S. as a bribe for peace.
In Fact, enemies of Israel recieve much more in aid than Israel does. Ron Paul's non intervention policy is a net gain for Israel.
FURTHERMORE, SELLING UNBORN AMERICAN CHILDREN INTO DEBT SLAVERY TO GIVE MONEY TO ISRAEL, PAKISTAN, SAUDI ARABIA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY IS IMMORAL AND DEPLORABLE TO ANY DECENT JEW.
Isaiah 30 Clearly says that the reason for the 2,000 year exile was not trusting G-d and paying Egypt for protection. The U.S. has been paying Egypt and other countries Such as Saudi Arabia hundreds of billions dollars to date. This angers G-d today just as it did 2,000 years ago.
Right action cannot arise out falsity. A SAD commentary on Judeo-Christian society endorsing a unjust war because of their “support of Israel” that is in direct violation of scripture and the Just War Principle of Saint Augustine.
Support Israel with Honor. If the government stops taking your money and giving it to Egypt, Pakistan ect..that money through the Free Market of IDEAS bring further prosperity and PEACE in Israel. Judeo Ideas are
America Gives Aid to Countries that Persecute Christians and Even Martyr Christians. “IF YOU GIVE A PHROPHET A GLASS OF WATER YOU SHARE IN HIS REWARD.”
+++++
I don't support Ron Paul because I am Jewish. I
support Ron Paul because he supports me regardless of what religion I may
be. And that is the entire point of liberty. It uses the highest spiritual
values to transcend the politics of religion, including divisiveness, racial
hatred and scapegoating.
With regard to Israel (and let's be honest, that's what this is really all
about), Paul would cut aid to that country as well as all other countries,
holding to George Washington's dictum not to have political alliances with
any of them, but to trade with all of them in friendship. Israel, with her
pretty good arsenal of weaponry, can protect herself militarily without our
help, as long as we are not arming her enemies as well. And with the
creativity and industry that issues forth from Israel, she could become an
incredibly strong trading partner and force for good, rather than cause for
hatred, in the whole world. After all, it's hard to justify biting the hand
that feeds you, no matter what your religious bent.
Steve
+ ++++
The same reasons I have as a person:
1-Realistic talk about monetary policy - i.e. the only politician who
doesn't pretend more money=richer. When the inflationary crisis hits,
who do you think the people will blame, and who will they riot
against? Hint - what kind of bankers do anti-semites talk about?
2-Remove troops from around the world. Judaism insists on the
obligation of the Jew to be a light unto the nations among which we
find ourselves dispersed. This includes counseling not to do evil.
3-The Shema - Ron Paul is the only politician who does not violate the
principles of the Shema by pretending that the state is a God.
4-The American people, mostly in favor of socialism, have the gall to
refer to "Jewish socialism." Ron Paul will throw this claim right
back at them by standing up for capitalism.
5-Stop US aid to Israel, and stop providing military support to
Israel. As Jews, we have a special obligation to Israel to try to
prevent the Israeli government from engaging in evil actions, and US
+++++
The prophets warned the Israelites against entangling foreign alliances against Assyria (and later Babylon), and taught instead to turn to G-d. Their warnings were ignored and first the northern kingdom was carried off into diaspora by the Assyrians, then later the Southern Kingdom by the Babylonians.
The warning stands today for the USA, particularly so as a major safehaven for Jews outside Israel.
...
In the history of the world; not just US but the world, socialist
governments have been bad for Jews. There is no reason to suspect that
large government will not be bad for Jews here too.
There are other reasons I support him, but that is one.
Moshe
aid encourages evil.
+++++
I have a lot of reasons and strongly believe in what he has stood for
the last 30 years and is currently trying to accomplish. A lot of Ron
Paul's supporters accurately describe his philosophical views as
Jeffersonian.
In 1836, the Levy's bought Monticello. In an 1833 letter Uriah Levy
wrote "I consider Thomas Jefferson to be one of the greatest men in
history -- author of the Declaration and an absolute democrat,. ...
He serves as an inspiration to millions of Americans. He did much to
mold our Republic in a form in which a man's religion does not make
him ineligible for political or governmental life."
This refers to Thomas Jefferson's drafting of The Virginia Act For
Establishing Religious Freedom. Jews have been and will likely always
be a minority. Without laws to protect the minority, public opinion can
quickly become public action against us. Here is an article by Jacob G.
Hornberger, "Why Germans Supported Hitler"
[http://www.lewrockwell.com/hornberger/hornberger132.html]. Look at our
economic situation with the Federal Reserve and the Iraq and Afghanistan
wars. How hard would it be for public opinion to sway in the direction
of deciding Israel and the Jewish lobbies were controlling our banking
and government institutions and to kick off a witch hunt? And where are
those civil liberties that are supposed to protect us now? Andrew
Napolitano, a Federal judge often featured on Fox News, has a new book
titled, "Nation of Sheep". This plug for it appeared on Fox News:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gs9GTbMtJ3E These violations are occurring
even now [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5440211]
and are widespread
[