"[F]our churches were reprimanded..." by the IRS.

Photo of Britcom.

First lets get the quotes out the way...

In recent election cycles the IRS has upgraded its scrutiny of churches
and other charities, which risk losing their tax-free status if they
engage in partisan political activity or advocacy for a particular
candidate.

...

The IRS, as it has in the past, wants to remind charities and churches
of the ban on political campaign activity
. We also want to urge
nonprofit and religious organizations to review the guidance we have
issued to help them avoid any **problems**
,” [Steven T. Miller, commissioner of the IRS’ Tax Exempt and Government Entities Division,] cautioned.

Link >>

Source: Politico (emphasis added)

Okay, now comes the question... Who has authority to "reprimand" a church here in the good ole' USA for any kind of speech?

Obviously Steven T. Miller of the IRS thinks he has this authority
judging from his thinly veiled threat directed at all the churches in
this country. Where would he ever get the notion that he can do such a
thing? Well, that's just unAmerican isn't it.

Maybe from the Internal Revenue Code?

Many people
believe the IRS is the source of a church's tax exempt status and can
take away that status if it chooses to. The Constitution disagrees.
The First Amendment says:

Congress shall
make no law respecting
an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

The IRS is a creation of Congress.

Can't the IRS take away a churches tax exempt status?

Careful, it's a trick question. Churches are not "exempt" from
taxation, they are nontaxable and unregulable by any government agency by virtue
of the First Amendment. That is not the same thing as "tax exempt". An
exemption gives permission to avoid something that is normally
required by law. Churches are not bound to pay tax and cannot be
required to do so even if the IRS were to declare that a church no
longer had their "permission" to be "exempt". As you can see from this
logic the IRS has no claim of authority over taxing (or exempting for that matter) any churches at all
and they never will have so long as the First Amendment stands.

They do
have such authority over non-church charitable organizations though. In
fact they play a semantic game to confuse churches into thinking
that the IRS has some power over them like it does over charitable organizations like the Red Cross, but it is just a ruse. The
IRS cannot defeat the First Amendment and legally tax churches. Churches that
curtail their speech because of the threat of losing their "tax exemption" are sheepishly placing their ankles in the government regulation shackles that the framers of the First Amendment purposely sought to protect them from.

Now lets look at what the IRS doesn't like that churches are doing.
It boils down to speech, specifically political speech. Here is what the rest of the First Amendment says:

Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of
speech

That is quite a legal hurdle there isn't it. So since congress can
make no law in effect taxing a church, OR abridging the freedom of
speech, what is the IRS doing dictating what can be said from a church
pulpit under threat of taxation?

Did we miss somewhere along the way that a church (or list of
approved churches) were "established" by congress through the Internal
Revenue Code? It certainly sounds like it doesn't it. Let's look
further.

What is the IRS so afraid of that it would attempt to limit
church speech? Could it be a presidential candidate that has pledged
to put them out of business? Possibly.

But why attack churches? Why
would churches be a threat to the IRS?

Answer: Former Baptist Church
minister and now presidential candidate Mike Huckabee who has been
surging in the polls and pulling in money from... you guessed it... Christian church members. Now do you see it? The IRS is afraid of
Huckabee and wants to prevent church leaders from endorsing him and
raising money for him because if he gets elected, the IRS will be
shutdown for good.

Can we really do without the IRS? Sure we can, in fact we
can do without the income tax too. Taxing income is regressive anyway.
You know better how to spend your money than the IRS does. Wouldn't it
be better to have all of that money going into the economy rather than
to the IRS.

But, you ask, what will the government do without an income?
Don't worry the government has plenty of other taxes it takes in every
year and besides, none of your IRS "taxes" go to the US treasury
anyway, they go to the Federal Reserve to pay down the debt and
interest that the US government owes them.

What? you didn't know that
the US government pays interest to the Federal Reserve? What is it
doing paying interest to itself for? Uh, I guess you also didn't
know that the Federal Reserve is a private cooperation owned and run by
bankers and not a government agency owned by "we the people", did you.

Oh
man, if I were you, I would be getting really mad about now.

So since the money hasn't been going to the treasury anyway, the government won't miss it. Come to think of it, while we're at it, we could get rid of the Federal Reserve and all those Federal Reserve Notes that it prints. What would we use for money you ask? We'd print United States Notes like we used to. Remember the five dollar bills with the red serial numbers? Yup they were US Notes issued by the Treasury. So why did we ever need the Federal Reserve and its notes? Well... that's a really good question but if I tell you, you're going to get really, really mad and I don't want to see you blow a fuse.

Maybe when you've had a chance to take a breath and cool down, you can watch "The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America" - Video >> and learn all about the Federal Reserve.

 


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Those churches would not have a problem...

Without any IRS. And it's sad to see the news media pay so little attention to "someone else" candidates' statement of faith. But typical of the bias we see here daily...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Yes,

It does bear mentioning that Ron Paul would do away with the IRS and the Federal Reserve. His campaign has also been under attack by the government, but in his case it was the US Mint and the Secret Service when they raided and seized an entire shipment of Ron Paul for President copper medalions before they could be sold.

Yes, thanks. $400 worth of mine were stolen by thugs w/badges.

See:

http://newsbusters.org/forums/latest-news/wheres-crime-17444

http://newsbusters.org/forums/latest-news/live-blog-glenn-beck-my-criminal-friend-bernard-7pm-est-17303

and

http://newsbusters.org/forums/latest-news/media-bias-nb-editors-picks-themselves-17247

for details of just one of the cases that the media would REALLY like to ignore...They shouldn't have stolen my money if they wanted me to be quiet about it around the hypocrites who CLAIM to be "for" free speech!
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Reading only what you want to read

What more proof do I need that libertarians only want to read the parts of the Constitution that they WANT to read? 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

See my replies to you on the

Referenced threads. If you don't think this was a politically-timed attack on some peoples' free speech rights, why don't you explain why it wasn't?
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Because...

Because it was an enforcement of that pesky clause of Article I of the United States Constutition you so detest.  If we didn't go after those jokers, then I suppose we could also shut down one-half of the Secret Service and permit the counterfeiting of currency to just happen without punishment of any sort...

How was this "free speech"?  In your own words, if you don't mind.

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

First you need to explain

How what Bernard had done for literally a decade suddenly became "counterfeiting" sans any trial, any judge, or any jury. Your declaration is no more convincing than the AP's, which NB's editors' picks parrotted until I came back from shooting Bambi and pointed out the lack of any trial before a conviction in a way that was sarcastic enough for them to change the dishonest words (hyper-sarcastic PMs available upon request).  

And while you're at it, you might also want to explain the plethora of banknotes flitting & floating about in a free marketplace around the time that Article was written, and why they weren't a problem, but something with Ron Paul's pic on it caused such obvious hysteria for big government and its fans...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Quite right...

This was not a case of counterfeiting. It was a case seizing private property.

I get the feeling that Unsane is an Authoritarian. Apparently he believes that Special Agents with Federally issued badges have universal jurisdiction, universal discretion, and are implicitly trustworthy; and that no due process is necessary for the accused because the Feds are infallible and therefore their accusations are as good as a conviction which of course warrants any action they so choose. 

The reality is that these agents came in and robbed a bank full of privately owned gold, silver, and copper. Will they be pulling the gold out of your teeth next.  

And keep the blatantly-political timing WND noted in mind...

These copper medallions, which America has needed since 1982 when our penny was quietly-debased from real copper to copper-washed zinc slugs, are definitely political speech if flag-burning qualifies. Right at the moment Bernard's (sold-out, so there's no way they'd ever circulate at $1 face-value like Boggs Bills) copper $1 Ron Paul issue was to ship, his business went from "legally-ok for a decade" to "an emergency requiring an immediate obese government theft." And now all the zinc slugs in circulation are worth more like two+ cents each, but we're still supposed to believe inflation's "not a problem" for some reason...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

"copper-washed zinc slugs"

Does anyone consider copper-washed zinc slugs to be acceptable money? No? Well aren't they better than slips of worthless paper? No? Then why do you accept them in your change at the grocery store? If people started to reject them, would you still keep accepting them? No? Why not?.... So, why are you still accepting them now? When does that become crazy?

....I think it already is.

Where do I begin???

Again, Britcom, keep reading what you want to read.  I made a comparison here: if anyone can make any currency they want (like these clowns), then are you in favor of enforcing counterfeiting laws.

Again, you fail miserably to read that teeny clause in the Constitution that gives Congress, not some clowns in IN, the power "To coin money and regulate the value thereof".  Unless you can show me how they were empowered by Congress to coin money, you haven't a leg to stand on and are just advocating law-breaking.

 I get the feeling that Unsane is an Authoritarian.  I get the feeling that not only are you illiterate (or at least have a bad memory as I have repeatedly referred to law enforcement as "power-trippers"), but an anarchist as well.  God help us all if we (gulp!) ENFORCE the laws!!!   Apparently he believes that Special Agents with Federally issued badges have universal jurisdiction, universal discretion, and are implicitly trustworthy; and that no due process is necessary for the accused because the Feds are infallible and therefore their accusations are as good as a conviction which of course warrants any action they so choose.   And now you wish to blatantly lie.  Let 'em have their day in court; just stop whining because people are arrested for breaking laws (and only then are they hauled before court).  Curious, Britcom: what do you do when you are pulled over for speeding?  Try to shoot the power-tripper?

The reality is that these agents came in and robbed a bank full of privately owned gold, silver, and copper.  That was being minted to form currency.  If they never did that, then no one would have cared how much gold, silver or copper they had. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Your last paragraph

Proves your inability to read the Liberty Dollar site itself, and basically proves Britcom right about your authoritarian tendencies. But heaven-forbid clicking on one of those "link" things... It's pro-Ron-Paul, so it MUST be criminal before any trial. That's been the assumption here so-far, and not just by you, either. (See my links if anyone doubts it. When I have to singlehandedly-bust bias extending all the way from the AP to NB itself on the ideological spectrum, it's not a good day in general for media fairness & balance!).

So obese government is right because they have authority! That's been your argument, so far, but my friend Bernard spent years not-letting me call his silly medallions 'coins' in contemplation of this very attack. I look forward to the day when he proves you wrong in court, even if the media wants to ignore the case for now despite obvious political timing.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Hail Sarc...

(See my links if anyone doubts it. When I have to
singlehandedly-bust bias extending all the way from the AP to NB itself
on the ideological spectrum, it's not a good day in general for media
fairness & balance
!).

Ever get the idea you just might be on the "fringe"? And I'm not sure which one either. :-)

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Well, like it or not...

When confronted with my sarcasm over their (not terribly bright) parroting of the AP's not-terribly-bright assumptions of guilt sans trial, the text of the Editor's Picks magically-changed. Sarcasm occasionally works at NB.

Face it, we don't have an "Unsane system," or an "AP system," or a "NB system," we have a court system. So my conclusion is more like: "sarcasm works pretty damn well, no matter where I use it, when it makes my target totally-incapable of any coherent response." :) But I doubt you like that interpretation of matters as much as yours...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

How?

If anyone tells you "I'll get rid of the IRS!", prepare to be lied to.  Whether you like it or not, there will always be a bureaucracy dedicated to the collection and tallying up of revenue, and the enforcement of said laws.  As such, there will ALWAYS be an IRS...or a similar organization. 

I like the idea of a 15-17% "flat tax" across the board with NO loopholes OR exemptions for anyone or anything for that reason.  With that, you can reduce the size of the IRS from thousands to perhaps a hundred or maybe even less, all localized within a mile or so of the Treasury building.

And as for The Great Ron Paul the Shahinshah getting rid of the Federal Reserve...well, not according to the post down below, he can't.  (Did you not say that even if it was gotten rid of by law that it would exist...even though it ONLY exists because of one, little, tiny law???)  Contradictions collapse, of course.  (But then, that reactionary is positively repulsed by the modern world and modern America, and cannot wait to turn the United States from the world's most powerful nation with the largest and most advanced economy EVER into a whiny, powerless excuse of a nation that is truly the world's laughingstock.) 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Time to critically think

Too late. I already know about the Federal Reserve.

If this ICB is in fact a private bank, as all the Conspiros claim, then why can it be made to go away with the repeal of one little, tiny law passed in December 1913? 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Answer

If the law passed in 1913 were repealed, nothing would change. The Federal Reserve Banks would continue to exist and so would the Federal Reserve Notes. All the law does is set up a monopoly to benefit one bank. It is the same as if the congress were to pass a law setting up a federally protected privately owned newspaper and prohibiting any other paper from circulating. The profit from the newspaper would still be going into the newspaper's owner's pockets, not the US Treasury.

If such a newspaper were to be set up, the only one who would benefit would be the owner's of the newspaper that gets to be the monopoly. If that law were to be repealed, just as above, nothing would change, the newspaper would still be privately owned and keeping its profits, but it would not be a monopoly anymore because other newspapers would begin circulating.

Repealing

The only reason the Federal Reserve exists is because of that one little law. Repeal it, and the Federal Reserve goes away.  If that were not so, then why was it necessary to pass that law to bring it to life? 

I actually LIKE the idea of ICBs, though.   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

I don't think you're reading Britcom correctly

The problem isn't the existence of the Federal Reserve. The problem is their monopoly via the "legal tender" law. Foreign governments and US citizens like Warren Buffett & George Soros are moving away from USD & engaging in weird transactions like "the yen carry trade" again for a reason.

The dollar needs to be worth something, and with more and more of 'em out there, it's worth less than folks formerly believed...Meanwhile, central banks seem to be unified in panic-mode, but as usual the best coverage of them is from ol' Ambrose across the pond.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

Various

The dollar needs to be worth something, and with more and more of 'em out there, it's worth less than folks formerly believed...That is why I would have preferred the Fed leave interest rates unchanged.

I am reading Britcom correctly.  He hates the Federal Reserve and has referred to them as (Inc) elsewhere.  What he cannot explain is why, if it is a private bank, it can be done away with by the repeal of one little law. 

On to the rest of your post.  I am short on time here.   

The problem is their monopoly via the "legal tender" law.  Yeah.  How dare Congress coin money and regulate the value thereof.  I mean, I'd rather walk around with 50 different currencies, like most people (sarcasm off, though my family would argue otherwise).

Foreign governments and US citizens like Warren Buffett & George Soros are moving away from USD & engaging in weird transactions like "the yen carry trade" again for a reason.  Yet, since the U.S. Dollar is still THE ticket to enter the world's largest markets, people still transact in them, and people still buy debt instruments like Treasuries still. 

That being said, if we want the dollar to be worth more, we all need to shut up (less talk more action), save 20% of our income someplace like a savings account, and demand that we begin paying down the national debt, regardless who is in power or how it got there. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

FedEx vs. FedRes

I think you are forgetting that we already have a government owned and run central bank. It is called the U.S. Treasury, not the shareholder owned and controlled Federal Reserve.

The law that you refer to did not "create" the Federal Reserve System, it did the reverse, it forbade the State Chartered banks from competing with the Federal Reserve Bank.

The Federal Reserve Act did not create a new government agency, it just created a new type of business entity. You have Corp, LLC, LLP, and now NA (NA referring to a Federal Reserve syndicate member bank.)

Lets have an example.

I propose that we create special legislation that dissolves the U.S. Post Office and replaces it with the privately owned corporation called Federal Express (FedEx).

Federal Express would assume all of the duties that the Post Office used to do in delivering the nation's mail but, within the legislation it would ban all other companies from delivering the mail and give Federal Express an exclusive national monopoly.

In addition to that FedEx could raise or lower the postage price at will every 3 three months for any reason. FedEx would continue to be owned by its stock holders who would receive a guaranteed 6% dividend every year, but the government would own none of that stock.

In exchange for this FedEx would allow the POTUS to appoint the Chairman of the Federal Express Board every 14 years.

Does that sound ludicrous and just asking for abuse? Well that is essentially what we allowed to happen to our banking system.

Remedial Economics required!

Well, how horrible!!!  The federal government decided to create an independent central bank (or at least as independent as possible), and as such, gave it the exclusive power to be one...and according to the Constitution I read, the power "To coin money and regulate the value thereof" exists with Congress, NOT the states! 

Your FedEx example is so poor as to be horrific.  Who receives dividends from the Federal Reserve?  It is NOT a private institution!  Besides, if your exaple was correct, then why aren't interest rates at around 2000% in order to enrich said shareholders? 

You are so in need of Macroeconomics 2301 it isn't even funny...it's just downright sad.   

The funniest/saddest part?  If you think the Federal Reserve is the locus of evil now...you don't even know about the powers it has but COULD use (such as what the Federal Open Market Committee could do). 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

People aren't buying it, try as you might...

See the graph on the Liberty Dollar link (page down twice), which also mentions the fact that "a dollar" in 2001 is much like 4 cents in 1913, the year this wonderful enabler of big-government social programs was created. If you keep this silliness up, I'm likely to make a forum and post Greenspan's gold essay in its entirety. If my guess is right, the cognitive dissonance THAT will cause you will make you even more hysterical than you are about Bernard's stupid medallions somehow being "counterfeit."
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)

I would be interested in

I would be interested in which churches are on the list of those "reprimanded."

My guess is that the South-Central Los Angeles' First AME Church, where Barack Obama openly campaigned and the congregation "prayed for him to become President" isn't.