Army Unit to Deploy in October for Domestic Operations


Army Unit to Deploy in October for Domestic Operations

Beginning in October, the Army plans to station an active unit
inside the United States for the first time to serve as an on-call
federal response in times of emergency. The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st
Brigade Combat Team has spent thirty-five of the last sixty months in
Iraq, but now the unit is training for domestic operations. The unit
will soon be under the day-to-day control of US Army North, the Army
service component of Northern Command. The Army Times reports
this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a
dedicated assignment to Northern Command. The paper says the Army unit
may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control. The
soldiers are learning to use so-called nonlethal weapons designed to
subdue unruly or dangerous individuals and crowds.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/22/headlines#10


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So?

So? 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

»→ Yeah, So?

Great question.

Doesn't quite fit in to the Surrender Party agenda. 

"Don't taze me bro" - Joe Biden

Domestic Operations

George W's War


No one likes war.  War is an horrific affair, bloody, and expensive.  Sending our men and women into battle to perhaps die or be maimed is an unconscionable thought.
 
Yet some wars need to be waged, and someone needs to lead.  The citizenry and Congress are often ambivalent or largely opposed to any given war.  It's up to our leader to convince them.  That's why we call the leader "Commander-in-Chief".
 
George W.'s war was no different.  There was lots of resistance to it.  Many in Congress were vehemently against the idea.  The Commander-in-Chief had to lobby for legislative approval.
 
Along with supporters, George W. used the force of his convictions, the power of his title and every ounce of moral persuasion he could muster to rally support.  He had to assure Congress and the public that the war was morally justified, winnable and affordable.  Congress eventually came around and voted overwhelmingly to wage  war.
 
George W. then lobbied foreign governments for support.  But in the end, only one European nation helped us.  The rest of the world sat on its hands and watched.
  
 After a few quick victories, things started to go bad.  There were many dark days when all the news was discouraging.  Casualties began to mount.  It became obvious that our forces were too small.  Congress began to drag its feet about funding the effort.
  
 Many who had voted to support the war just a few years earlier were beginning to speak against it and accuse the Commander-in-Chief of misleading them.  Many critics began to call him incompetent, an idiot, and even a liar.  Journalists joined the negative chorus with a vengeance.
 
As the war entered its fourth year, the public began to grow weary of the conflict and the casualties.  George W.'s popularity plummeted.  Yet through it all, he stood firm, supporting the troops and endorsing the struggle.
 
Without his unwavering support, the war would have surely ended, then and there, in overwhelming and total defeat.  At this darkest of times, he began to make some changes.  More troops were added and trained.  Some advisers were shuffled, and new generals installed.
 
Then, unexpectedly and gradually, things began to improve.  Now it was the enemy that appeared to be growing weary of the lengthy conflict and losing support.  Victories began to come, and hope returned.
 
Many critics in Congress and the press said the improvements were just George W.'s good luck.  The progress, they said, would be temporary.  He knew, however, that in warfare good fortune counts.
 
Then, in the unlikeliest of circumstances and perhaps the most historic example of military luck, the enemy blundered and was resoundingly defeated.  After six long years of war, the Commander-in-Chief basked in a most hard-fought victory.
 
So on that historic day, Oct. 19, 1781, in a place called Yorktown, a satisfied George Washington sat upon his beautiful white horse and accepted the surrender of Lord Cornwallis, effectively ending the Revolutionary War.

 


What? Were you thinking of someone else?

Does the Posse Comitatus

Does the Posse Comitatus Act apply here?  Or the Insurrection Act of 1807?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Clarification

This is a military unit designed for operations such as those that followed Hurricane Katrina.  Why does it exist? Incompetents like Fmr. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin. 

Why no panicking over Noble Eagle? 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Your answer is that these

Your answer is that these acts do not apply to this situation?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Question

Do you not think that the National Guard should be used in disasters?  And if your answer is yes, how do you think their operations will be sustained?   

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

This is twice that you've

This is twice that you've responded to my point, and twice you have avoided it.  Also, please note that we are not talking about the National Guard here.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

and because I'm not telling you what you want to hear, you whine

That is twice I cut to your point, and twice you whined because you didn't like my answer.

I should take this thread to people I know who work for NORTHCOM.  Personally I think they'd laugh their asses off for weeks at the amount of power you are ascribing to them. 

Please note that I am talking about the National Guard because that leads directly to a point that I don't expect a military-matter moron like you to grasp.  (I am sure you have a pathological hatred of them as well.)  Sure, the National Guard can work to overcome various natural disasters...but how can those operations be sustained (there's that word again)?

Also, what say you about Noble Eagle? 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Do you suffer from a

Do you suffer from a condition that prevents you from directly answering a question?  This is three times now, and your constant avoidance leads me to believe that you either don't know the answer, or know that answering it honestly would display exactly what is wrong with this situation.

Directly please, do you think Posse Comitatus and the Insurrection Act of 1807 apply to this scenario?

By the way, I think in light of the recent bailout, and the support McCain offered for it, you should update your signature.  

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden or McCain-Palin is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward. 

 

Again, grow the hell up

Your post indicates to me only that not only do you refuse to read my responses, but you absolutely refuse to read anything I post.  Or, you just don't know what to do when confronted with the Latin alphabet when it conveys English words.

Stop blaming me for your lack or reading comprehension.  Stop blaming me for your simplistic, childish thinking.  Stop blaming me for your refusal to comprehend matters military.  Stop blaming me for your inability/refusal to think critically. 

One day, I will force you to answer your own question. 

Nice blatant plagiarism, by the way.  Proof positive you lack ideas. Once again, if I wanted a PERFECT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, I would run for office. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Dance all you want surly

Dance all you want surly little man, you have not answered the question.  Instead of tring to "force" me to answer me own question, why not just answer it, as it was posed to you in the first place.

As to your charge of "blatant plagiarism," you can rest assured that I am not interested in stealing your pathetic signature, I merely wanted to point out that McCain, Obama and you all fit your description.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Just confront the answers sqaurely, like a man

 Dance all you want surly little man, you have not answered the question.  How WhichWhine of you.  You have been answered in such a way, if you approached my answers objectively and with an open mind (sound familiar???), that you can draw your own conclusions, and they will contradict your pathological, intense hatred of the military.  But of course, you being WhichWhine, you are getting things except what you want to hear, and so you are whining.  Typical. 

Be a MAN and critically think for a change.  Once again, if I took this thread up to those I know who are working on this very thing, they would laugh at you for days on end.  And once again, if this so bothers you, why aren't you whining about Noble Eagle

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

ENOUGH

OK, this is it.  I have no intense hatred of the military.  In fact, I harbor no ill feelings toward the military.  You either do not comprehend the difference between disagreeing with policy and hating the military, or you are an outright liar.  It's one or the other, but it's not both.  You are ignorant or a liar.  I'll let you pick.


protecting and defending

protecting and defending the Constitution of the US - against all enemies - foreign and DOMESTIC 

Journalism is the opium of the liberals

Contradictions collapse

You don't hate the military, yet you constantly whine that the spending on the military is excessive, in spite of ample examples to show how it is HARDLY excessive, that in fact in some regards we are spending even LESS on the military right now.  

Contradictions collapse.

Now, if this military unit's existence SO INTENSELY BOTHERS YOU, what are your thoughts on Noble Eagle? 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

I remain unconvinced about

I remain unconvinced about military spending and your denials of it being excessive.  You realize we spent $140 billion in Iraq alone  this year, right?  What about our bases and operations in the other 130 countries?  I don't know what you have to classify as not "military spending" in order to come to the conclusion that anything less than half of the budget is spent on it, but it's a farce.

Did you intend to share your thoughts on Posse Comitatus and the Insurrection Act or what?  I think you've been avoiding that for about 3 weeks now.  The one thing that actually applies to this thread and you want nothing to do with it.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

I remain unconvinced about

I remain unconvinced about military spending and your denials of it being excessive.  Sweetie, if we spend 0.01 dollars on protecting your right to SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM and SCREAM some more about how your freedom is 100% free, you'd call that excessive.   You realize we spent $140 billion in Iraq alone this year, right? What about our bases and operations in the other 130 countries?   Um, sweetie, I don't know what crack you have been smoking, but unless you are counting Marine embassy guards, we DON'T have operations in 130 countries.  That is a massive logistical undertaking that I would be extremely privy to.  You need to learn to listen to your logisticians.  But then, only military professionals do.  Not military amateurs.  Certainly not military idiots.I don't know what you have to classify as not "military spending" in order to come to the conclusion that anything less than half of the budget is spent on it, but it's a farce.  Really?  Our budget is ONLY $1 trillion?  Coulda fooled me.  Last time I checked, we spent $535 billion on defense.  I know I really suck at math, but that doesn't seem like over half of $2.7 TRILLION.  This according to the 2008 World Almanac.  (And I note that you talk a LOT of s#$t about the military, but don't EVER back it up, as I have. 

Don't EVER whine to me again about how you don't hate the military. 

Did you intend to share your thoughts on Posse Comitatus and the Insurrection Act or what?  I think you've been avoiding that for about 3 weeks now.  The one thing that actually applies to this thread and you want nothing to do with it.  I am, actually; you are refusing to address the issues I have brought up.  If you would engage in something we adults like to call "conversation: and answer the questions, I would be happy to show you the rest of the way so that you will see how it ties in.  But this means I will have to FORCE you to think.  If you don't want to think, but just swallow all of the crap your kook publications and websites tell you, just say so.  but bear in mind that you are arguing with one who runs rings around you constantly in matters military, as I AM in the military.

Now: 1) If/when the National Guard responds to an emergency or disaster, all is well and good, but if it is like Katrina, and perhaps compounded by incompetent political leadership, who will sustain - sustain - sustain those operations?

2) This unit seems to deeply terrify you, as does the very existence of a U.S. military.  You probably are also filled with extreme, overwhelming terror at the fact that Congress is called upon to fund an Army and Navy in the Constitution itself.  So, this all being said, will you PLEASE share with us your thoughts on Operation Noble Eagle?

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Check again

"Last time I checked, we spent $535 billion on defense."

For 2009, the base budget rose to US$515.4 billion, with a total of US$651.2 billion when emergency discretionary spending and supplemental spending are included. This does not include many military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department budget, such as nuclear weapons research, maintenance and production (~$9.3 billion, which is in the Department of Energy budget), Veterans Affairs (~$33.2 billion) or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which are largely funded through extra-budgetary supplements, ~$170 billion in 2007) - the United States government is currently spending at the rate of approximately $1 trillion per year for all defense-related purposes.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1941

"Don't EVER whine to me again about how you don't hate the military."  

You need to quit with your malicious lies.  I have said time and time again that I don't hate the military, I disagree with the way it is used.  I think you understand this but cling to your lies in order to avoid reasonable criticism of policy.   You are a hack.

Take Noble Eagle and shove it up your ass.  There's my thoughts.  How about you and the Insurrection Act?  

You really are pathetic.  I hope you fall out of your lonely twin bed and knock some sense into yourself one day.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Such immature behavior because you just don't want to think

Take Noble Eagle and shove it up your ass.  There's my thoughts.  How about you and the Insurrection Act?   And you lecture ME on how to behave on NB elsewhere?  Take this thread, your Conspiro behavior, your constant whining about how rotten, horrible and evil America is, and how bad it is that we have a military (because your freedom isn't free), and shove THAT up your ass.  You need to go to a Veterans Day parade crawling on your hands and knees and thanking those vets for providing you your freedom and fighting to preserve it, just before you crawl back under whatever rock you came out from under. 

And even if I take your $1 trillion a year WAG at its word, we STILL have a federal budget that is dominated by entitlement spending.  I actually wish that military spending WAS what the federal government was spending most of it money on...for it COULD be a sign that it is spending money on things it actually SHOULD spend money on as spelled out explicitly in Article I of the United States Constitution.

WhichWhine, my saying you hate the military isn't a malicious lie at all, and the reason you are so angry is because what I said exposes you.  You hate the military.  You THROW A FIT if we spend as much as a single penny on it.  You point to it and the fact that America has a foreign policy (as it has had one since it was fighting to break free of King George III) as the locus of ALL of the world's evil.  You constantly do this, and you constantly whine over military spending (do you know where most of that money goes?).  What else do I conclude? 

You obviously are not serious about this whole "being an adult" thing so I won't share my thoughts.  I will say this, though: I have a queen size bed.  Sorry.  I won't wish ill upon you...that last line only shows me what a pathetic, simplistic, elementary school age little boy you really are. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

At Least Seven Hundred

At Least Seven Hundred Foreign Bases

"It's not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more."

This is what I disagree with, and what you mistakenly call hatred.  Here's the rest of the article.


SIlliness and propaganda

Excuse me? Empire of bases?  You need to take a ride through the region of Germany where I grew up, because you'd be disabused of that silly idea fast.  There are TONS of bases there.  Problem is, most of them are abandoned.  Since we didn't need them anymore, we ditched them.  I know all about this.  See, I did a little more than just read a bunch of kook websites.  I actually visited that region of the world once more and saw this for myself. 

Not to mention that for reasons I cannot fathom you insist on arguing nonsense with a logistician who can tell you the ins and outs of the military, because it is the logisticians who have to sustain military operations. 

If this country had 700+ military bases in 130 countries, I would be the VERY FIRST to know about it, because ultimately I, along with others in my field, would have to work to sustain them.  That is a massive undertaking that I would be highly privy to.  Of course, you won't let that stop you from wallowing and ODing on ignorance. 

Anyways, I can't read the rest of the article. (Have you heard of those ancient objects made mostly of bound paper with type on each page?  Books, I think they are called?)  Why?  Your source evaluation sucks.  And I cannot evaluate your source.  (That's why I like books...VERY easy to evaluate.)  Well, perhaps in your own words you can tell me what this commondreams.org is...

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Strange

You respond with all this 3 days after I responded to you on the exact same topic on another thread:

By the way, here once again is the source (A US GOVERNMENT SOURCE) for the above quote:

Base Structure Report

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/basestructure2003.pdf

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

You poor thing!

YOU POOR BABY!!!  You had to wait THREE WHOLE DAYS???  But...but...but...the entire planet revolves around you, doesn't it?  What a spoiled brat...

You are going to have to grow up at so me point, though reading your posts I suspect you are condemned to perpetual adolescence.  You MUST accept that I do not live at your beck and call, that I respond when and where I want.  AND, that I actually have a life, which is something you apparently badly need.   

And no, you are still getting nowhere with one who is in the profession you claim to be expert on and bash at every single opportunity out of your extreme, intense hatred for it. 

"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!!  A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)

Once again you've missed

Once again you've missed the point.  I don't care how long you take to reply, or if you reply at all.  My point was that I provided that exact information you accused me of withholding 3 days before your response.  And you had responded to other posts of mine in that 3 days.  Gave me the impression you were avoiding it.

So suck the remaining dribble back into your mouth and address the topic.  Or do you plan on avoiding the government source I've provided to back up the statement of 700 bases in 130 countries?

You make yourself out to be a bigger fool each time you post.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Weaker and weaker you become

You make yourself out to be a bigger fool each time you post.  Speak for yourself, and ONLY for yourself. 

If there was ONE base in ONE country, considering your hatred for the military that ONLY grows exponentially stronger every day, you would still SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM AND SCREAM about how horrible, evil, and oppressive it is.

Your philosophy is this:

- Freedom is 100% free.  It does not have to be fought for or earned or defended.

- If we stopped spending money on the military, miraculous things would happen.  The national debt would immediately go away because it only exists because of the evil military.  Countries would immediately fall in love with the United States and stop spending on their militaries because they would all see just how super-nice we are.  And no one would DARE step up to the plate and try to become a dominant power...

- The United States military is THE locus of ALL that is wrong and evil with the world today and it must be stopped. 

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it, WhichWhine?

By the way...I still am not trusting a source of yours.  You don't, and wouldn't, trust mine. 

Another by the way...imagine if you cared this much about the Shahinshah and his plans for a national police force.  But you don't, because you and the Shahinshah hate the military passionately.   

"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!!  A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)

Bump

 

 

This is a good thing

Thank you for the info. I see this as a good thing. The military has often been used in domestic support roles.

"It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas." (From the same article you cite.)

It's about time that a unit is assigned solely for this role, and to receive the proper training necessary to fulfill this support role.

"Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area." (Once again, from the same article you cite.)

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

?????

"The paper says the Army unit may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control. The soldiers are learning to use so-called nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals and crowds."

Is there something going on??? Are they anticipating something???

Do we really expect unruly or dangerous crowds?? If so, why??

Is it because of things like Katrina's aftermath??

Help me out here.

misterbilol

That sentence brought me up short as well.

What, Obama loses the election and the populace goes wild?

I could see constituting some interstate National Guard quick response unit for distaster response, but that "civil unrest and crowd control" thing has me disturbed.

All I can think of is Kent State.  I don't think the members of our military would condone this, they signed up to fight our foreign enemies.  There are plenty of other ways to deal with the domestic ones, beginning with the FBI.

So, I got it....liberals want law enforcement for terrorists, but the military for civil unrest.  Check. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I'm not concerned about

I'm not concerned about this, the National Guard has been on hand to contain dangerous crowds before.  Besides which, the military has amazing nonlethal weapons nowadays.

 And just an aside for blonde, I believe members take an oath to fight america's enemies and those who wish to do her harm, foreign and domestic.  But no worries, right?  Peace activists NEVER get violent! 

The Avatar

 

Just read the link---

Just read the link---looks like the Katrina problems, the forest fires , etc are the motivating factors. I hope that is what it is. I am assuming these troops would be on scene quickly and reduce damage, rescue people, etc.

I hope you are right about

I hope you are right about that, but then I fear that those factors would be cover, not the motivation.  Doesn't every state already have a Guard of their own?   And did you notice that they spoke of this as if it would be a permanent assignment?

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that
another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that
the mission will be a permanent one.

On the bright side Unsane, your next deployment may just be in your hometown!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Bush is preparing a coup!

Bush is preparing a coup!

If only the noble, honorable, peace-loving nations of the wold such as Russia, China, Syria, and Iran would help us poor oppressed citizens.

Oh the humanity!

/Sarcasm Off (as if I had to say it)

FS

Do you get NY1 News? (I'm sure you do...) Of course, owned by AOL/Time Warner... They just had a poll on some political-hour show, where they give Time Warner cable users an A, B or C choice (on our remotes) of "Who would you protest?" at the UN:

A) Dinner Jacket

B) Bush

C) Palin

Unreal. I almost spit up my food. 

 

NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun

 

MrS

Nope.

I'm a DirecTV household!  I don't think Cablevision had NY1 either.

 

Anyway, that poll says it all about the MSM . . .

 

Governor Palin - She is the Real Deal !

The less you know...

On the bright side Unsane, your next deployment may just be in your hometown!  And you would STILL be wrong. 

In all likelyhood, if activated, I would be deployed to a "backfill" capacity while active duty units get deployed forward.  Although this does not mean I wouldn't get sent to a war zone; that is still entirely possible if the NCA deems fit to do so. 

For a San Antonio native, you have a LOT to learn about the military. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

This reminded me of a

This reminded me of a thread I posted in May of '07.  It was an article, by Jerome Corsi, about the "National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive."  

Here is an excerpt from that article, my emphasis added, followed by links: 

That job, as the document describes, is to make plans for "National
Essential Functions" of all federal, state, local, territorial, and
tribal governments, as well as private sector organizations to continue
functioning under the president's directives in the event of a national
emergency.

The directive loosely defines "catastrophic emergency" as "any
incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels
of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S.
population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government
functions."

original thread - http://newsbusters.org/node/12992

original article - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=41728

the directive - http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Coincidence?  Possibly. 

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Which,

I'll just say that when I see things like this, I am remided of Katrina. That is, when active duty soldiers illegally and unconstitutionally disarmed gun owners. It's a damn slippery slope when the military (NOT THE NATIONAL GUARD) begins policing it's own people. 

I mean what's next, Amendment 3 being thrown out and those soldiers livin in a citizens house? 

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

A price of incompetency

Maybe if some of those gun owners wouldn't have shot at first responders, as happened during Katrina, I don't think there would have been a problem.  

And possibly if the NO Power Trippers hadn't started turning in their badges en masse, and behaved competently (instead of beating elderly people, and then screaming down reporters who caught them in the act on camera [because, you see, WE work for the cops, the cops are ALWAYS right, and CANNOT TOLERATE ANY criticism whatsoever, you understand]) and actually decided to protect and defend people's property, there might not have been very much need for military assistance in the first place. 

Instead of griping at the military, perhaps the griping can be done at incompetent civilian authorities.   

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Agreed, Un.

I believe that the failure of the civilian authorities to handle the problem led to the deployment of the military. The civies should have been hung(figureatively, not literally) for their incompentence.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the military had ZERO right disarming the citizens down there. Someone shoots at them, return fire. Either kill the aggressor or capture them. But, don't take some innocent parties means of self defense away, cause of the actions of some idiot assholes.

Unsane, I know your active duty, right? So how would you respond to an order to disarm American civilians(who are not causing problems) without Martial Law being declared?

Just so you know, speaking from someone who served also, I have the upmost respect for your service to this country. I'm thankful I was never in the situation those guys were down in N.O. It's one thing to deploy to Iraq or the Stan, but  I wouldn't want the mission of having to "police" the people of this country.  

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

More

Actually, I am no longer active duty. And once upon a time I was with a VFD, so I like the idea of firefighters working calls without being shot at. 

Honestly, I don't think disarmament takes place if New Orleans has some semblance of order and emergency teams weren't getting shot at.  Or if the cops actually stuck around and did what they are paid to do.  The actions of the NOPD were utterly despicable. 

I don't want to "police" people in this country either.  Therefore it is up to us, the voters, to ensure that competent political leadership in place for times like these.  If Gov. Blanco/Mayor Nagin were even halfway competent, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  The ONLY reason this is the remotest concern is because the State of Louisiana did not adequately prepare, and once they got caught with their pants down, they sat on the ground whining and crying about it.  In my mind, this is all on them.  Look at Ike.  The TX NG was rolling to Houston and Galveston within hours of the storm passing through.  The infrastructure of this state is such that we can and do support the evacuees and recovery operations. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Thanks, Un.

My bad on your service status, I appreciate the correction. 

I am in complete agreement about La. reaction to Katrina and the MASSIVE difference to that of Tx. with Ike. I also agree 100% about it being OUR responsiblity as voters to ensure competent leaders are elected. If we don't, then the consquences are ours to shoulder and we have no one to blame but ourselves. 

As an aside, are you laying the groundwork for Unsane in 2012 yet? :-} 

 

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

Elections

I think this may have something to do with the elections. If Obama doesn't win the election I can see Rodney King Riots all over the country.

Look at how ignorant his supporters have been thus far! Even Obama said to get int he face of neighbors.

I would not put it passed Obama to incite a racial war should he fail to win this election!

Quite possibly.

Though, I don't think Barry calls for a race war, but his "surrogates" might. Hell, NB covers the "outrage"of certain columnists here all the time.

As sad a fact as it may be, it won't surprise me in the least if riots do indeed break out in certain cities in this country in the event of a Barry loss. 

As I said on a post Monday, Buy more guns and ammo!

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

ww,

First, I would like to say that I don’t think a certain amount of paranoia is necessarily a bad thing.

Leaving out conspiracy type theories the actions of the military here seem to be three-fold:

1- Establish a continuous training brigade to handle security efforts in the ME during times of decreased violence. Therefore creating a trained brigade to handle difficulties arising from counter-Iraqi actions taking by the populace that won’t give the appearance of being too heavy handed in a period of reduced violence in the theater.

2- Establish a training base rotation that would allow combat troops to have a state-side rotation and participate in training that will allow them to re-enter a potentially hostile region with an appropriate level of readiness for conditions on the ground.

3- Establish a brigade training on US soil that can assist in times of extreme need for emergency/disaster control. Troops trained in the security and subsequent related and extraneous problems related to chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear and high-yield explosives incidents. Also, the same training and accessibility to trained personnel will allow a greater flexibility to natural disasters.

Arguing the value of Homeland Security would be difficult for me considering the cost. As yet another bloated government agency there seems a lot of input and the output seems to cross so many departmental and agency lines it is impossible for an outsider to know who is paying for what. That being said, this program run by the military does not bother too much. However, if the direct command of the troops was to be taken over by a civilian, particularly a civilian politician, then I would worry.

One question, not necessarily applying to you:
How does a group of people that see a conspiracy behind every military action give a pass to someone like Senator Obama’s direct associations with people who commit violent crimes against the people of this nation and preach the subjugation of portions of the population and the wealth in the name of their version of fairness and in some cases the deaths of an entire race to quell an inner hatred that most Americans do not understand?

Thank you, a well-reasoned

Thank you, a well-reasoned response, and hopefully a correct one.  You should know that I'm not determined to find conspiracy or fascism, I'm just keeping an eye out for it, as any responsible citizen of a republic would do.

As to the last statement, I have no interest in defending Obama or people's support for him, as Ron Paul is still the man as far as I'm concerned.  But, I would tell a McCain supporter to look at what William Ayers did 30 years ago and compare it to what this Republican administration has done for the last 5 years.  Far more atrocities have come at their hands than Ayers, so I find it foolish to try to make him out to be the boogeyman.  And this really only applies because McCain seems to support pretty much the exact same foreign policy as Bush.  (I suspect Obama does as well, but he has managed to disguise it to his lesser informed followers.)

Next, I would look at the 'spread the wealth' idea of Obama's and point out that we already practice what he preaches.  Ten months into this year, one third of my wages have been taxed away from me.  The remaining money is taxed when I spend it.  If I save it and earn interest they will tax it.  Now I don't want to incite a large debate about taxes or anything, I just want to point out that we are ALREADY spreading the wealth.  McCain offers no alternative, only different destinations of said wealth.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."  -  George Bernard Shaw

 

Unfortunately that is not going to happen

Unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the rest of the world), your Jaundiced Pipsqueak Reactionary God is NOT running for the Presidency any longer.   

But, I would tell a McCain supporter to look at what William Ayers did 30 years ago and compare it to what this Republican administration has done for the last 5 years.  Far more atrocities have come at their hands than Ayers, so I find it foolish to try to make him out to be the boogeyman.  Really?  I sure would like to see a list of these alleged atrocities.  (But hey, I AM talking to one who is not only a reactionary but a total Conspiro.  Who knows what I'll get for a response?)

 And this really only applies because McCain seems to support pretty much the exact same foreign policy as Bush.  (I suspect Obama does as well, but he has managed to disguise it to his lesser informed followers.)  For this reason alone I am shocked you aren't voting for Obama.  Like you, Obama hates the military and wants America to be as weak and whiny as possible.  Granted, not quite as weak and whiny as what your Jaundiced Pipsqueak Reactionary God wants, which isn't as weak and whiny as YOU want, but still, we'll be a global laughingstock, just like you want. 

Next, I would look at the 'spread the wealth' idea of Obama's and point out that we already practice what he preaches. Not NEARLY to Obama's extent.  I would offer than this could have been avoided with a Forbes presidency (who I supported once upon a time) but there you have it.  Unfortunately people LOVE a system where the top 60% of wage earners get stolen from to coddle and baby the rest.  As for McCain's "different destinations of said wealth", I have no idea about what you are babbling about. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

a matter of degrees

Like many in the scientific world have been reminded, you usually only find what you are looking for to the detriment of more open lines of inquiry. If you are looking for fascism you just might find it but it is more likely, imo, that you will be blindsided by the Marxist bus while looking the wrong way. You distrust the size and power that the US military represents and at times has demonstrated. However, you have not yet given any credit to neither incalculable amount of restraint of military power shown nor the amount of good deeds performed by the military personnel both tangible and intangible. If the US was to have adapted the Imperialist or Fascist mode of war by performing something akin to a blitzkrieg of Iraq then we could have cut our casualties down to nothing, taken over the oil fields and used those profits to defend the fields and rebuild a colony of the US. Besides the obvious foreign relations nightmare created by this situation it was not done for the reasons that the politicians, the military nor the people would have supported such a massacre. Please disregard the argument for the moment of whether we should have gone in at all as it is not pertinent to the point I am trying to make at this point. That point is that our military that seems to be a point of contention doesn’t act in the fashion demonstrated by previous fascist regimes. In fact previous regimes thought that ending the war rapidly by any means possible was the most humane action they could take and yet we drag out a war for years not to save our own troops but to reduce the deaths of the civilian population of a once enemy country.
For sake of disclosure, I’m not a supporter of any person that ran for president and while I do lean heavily toward the Republican party most of the time it is generally because it is my opinion that in this mixed economy we need to stay to the level of 30% (purely arbitrary value assignment based on my estimate of wealth confiscation and government involvement) or less federal government in order to maintain a cyclically increasing atmosphere of business growth.
You will have to be more specific about the following statement, “…look at what William Ayers did 30 years ago and compare it to what this Republican administration has done for the last 5 years. Far more atrocities have come at their hands than Ayers, so I find it foolish to try to make him out to be the boogeyman.” Either I am not understanding your point or this is so over the top in context and blatant hyperbole that it would do neither of us justice to pursue a discussion of this point. While I do agree making Ayers previous actions out to be any worse than what he has done in the last 20 years is a mistake. As far as foreign policies between Bush and McCain are concerned you may be right but it is my opinion that McCain would never have gone into Iraq. I believe he would have made his stand in Afghanistan and risked escalation with Pakistan. It is also my opinion that this scenario would have cost many more lives and would have left the US surrounded by enemies as former political/religious combatants would align to oppose Western opposition in much more substantial way then they are today.
I absolutely agree with your assessment of taxes in the US. I try to keep separate the problems of state and federal taxes because I find one to be consistently unconstitutional and the other to be simply wrong. There is no such thing in actual practice as a purely socialist or purely capitalist society. But the mix needs to be such that it doesn’t overly inhibit growth or ingenuity but has enough regulatory power to maintain a fair balance field of competition (the reason political corruption is so dangerous). The programs that President Obama has supported, the promises he has made during his campaign and the social changes he has preached leads to one conclusion – a significant increase in the size of the federal government, the influence of federal government and the intrusion of federal government on individual lives. Senator McCain would have been bad – President Obama will be worse.

Original Opine

In a way, the NewWorldOrderists would love to see the "O" lose so there would be race riots and W would have to declare Martial Law and we'd have to give up the guns. Like I've said before, their goal is wars of attrition on every continent. So far, we've gotten a pass. Must be all the abortions (more than 50 million since 1974) and gang killings, etc. keeping them from starting the nightmare here. What's really chilling is that Charles Manson and his murderous cabal testified that they were just trying to get this show started early. The show was a civil war or a war between Blacks and Whites. Scarey, huh?

Nonsense

So, we have wars on every continent, because of "NewWorldOrderists" (whoever the hell they are supposed to be), because of 50 million abortions, and next we will have civil war due to all of this...

Jill, it would be better if you didn't post under the influence of alcohol or drugs...then, you might begin to make some sense. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.