U.S. Media Mostly Mum on Brotherhood's Improving Egyptian Playing Field; NYT Provides 'Surprised' But Still Naive Coverage
On Monday, an unbylined Associated Press item briefly reported the results on results of Egypt's weekend referendum, and the U.S. reaction:
The United States has welcomed the results of Egypt's weekend referendum after it opened the way for parliamentary and presidential elections within months.
State Department spokesman Mark Toner says the approved term limits for the next Egyptian president, multiple ways for candidates to get on the ballot and judicial supervision of elections are positive trends.
Toner said "Egyptians took an important step toward realizing the aspirations" of the revolution that toppled long-time leader Hosni Mubarak from power.
Whose "aspirations"?
If all you read is AP-generated international news (not impossible, given the wire service's pervasive influence), it's hard to understand how you would know. A search on "Muslim Brotherhood" (not in quotes) at the AP's U.S. home site has no story from Egypt referencing the group on or after the referendum date. (See this comment below for clarification and elaboration.)
There is very little news coverage of how the referendum results appear to favor the Brotherhood, which has been an organized, relatively disciplined group for many years, in contrast to other groups within Egypt which are just now emerging in the wake of Mubarak's resignation. One notable exception is the New York Times. On Thursday (appearing on the front page in Friday's print edition), Reporter Michael Slackman laid out recent developments, which can only be seen as favorable towards long-term representative government in Egypt if one naively believes that the Brotherhood has renounced its long-held repressive Islamist beliefs.
The Times also seems to have deliberately toned watered down its headline. The web browser window title, which I'm guessing probably came first, is: "In Egypt, Muslim Group Takes Lead Role in Post-Mubarak Era." The actual article title in both the online and print editions is: "Islamist Group Is Rising Force in New Egypt."
Slackman's reported content indicates that the window title headline was much more accurate. Here are excerpts from Slackman, some of which might leave readers slack-jawed (bolds are mine):
In post-revolutionary Egypt, where hope and confusion collide in the daily struggle to build a new nation, religion has emerged as a powerful political force, following an uprising that was based on secular ideals. The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group once banned by the state, is at the forefront, transformed into a tacit partner with the military government that many fear will thwart fundamental changes.
It is also clear that the young, educated secular activists who initially propelled the nonideological revolution are no longer the driving political force — at least not at the moment.
As the best organized and most extensive opposition movement in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was expected to have an edge in the contest for influence. But what surprises many is its link to a military that vilified it.
“There is evidence the Brotherhood struck some kind of a deal with the military early on,” said Elijah Zarwan, a senior analyst with the International Crisis Group. “It makes sense if you are the military — you want stability and people off the street. The Brotherhood is one address where you can go to get 100,000 people off the street.”
... The question at the time was whether the Brotherhood would move to take charge with its superior organizational structure. It now appears that it has.
... When the new prime minister, Essam Sharaf, addressed the crowd in Tahrir Square this month, Mohamed el-Beltagi, a prominent Brotherhood member, stood by his side. A Brotherhood member was also appointed to the committee that drafted amendments to the Constitution.
But the most obvious and consequential example was the recent referendum on the amendments, in the nation’s first post-Mubarak balloting. The amendments essentially call for speeding up the election process so that parliamentary contests can be held before September, followed soon after by a presidential race. That expedited calendar is seen as giving an advantage to the Brotherhood and to the remnants of Mr. Mubarak’s National Democratic Party, which have established national networks.
... A banner hung by the Muslim Brotherhood in a square in Alexandria instructed voters that it was their “religious duty” to vote “yes” on the amendments.
... This is not to say that the Brotherhood is intent on establishing an Islamic state. From the first days of the protests, Brotherhood leaders proclaimed their dedication to religious tolerance and a democratic and pluralist form of government. They said they would not offer a candidate for president, that they would contest only a bit more than a third of the total seats in Parliament, and that Coptic Christians and women would be welcomed into the political party affiliated with the movement.
Earlier today, Rush Limbaugh commented (link will be available until late afternoon on April 1) on Slackman's expressed "surprise" at how things are turning out, and how people who several weeks ago were warning about exactly what has happened were ridiculed.
I also find Slackman's description of the Brotherhood to be very naive, given the group's history and agenda since its founding:
They believe the Quran and Sunna must be the basis of individual morality, and stress application of the Shari’a in all relevant matters. In social policy they hold the primary role of women should be care of the family. They avoid ideological positions in economic matters, but stress importance of minimizing the differences in wealth between rich and poor. For them, social justice is more important than technological, economic, or administrative issues. In general, these groups believe their society has been corrupted by secular values and only a return to Islamic principles will restore morality, economic health, and political power.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for Coptic Christians or other non-Muslims in the above set of beliefs, and there is no really good reason to believe that the Brotherhood has all of a sudden fallen in love with legitimate representative government.
Beyond that, the Associated Press's lack of coverage besides relaying the State Department's naive congratulations will work to ensure that few U.S. news consumers will be told that things in Egypt are ominously heading in a decidedly Islamist direction. (See this comment below for clarification and elaboration.)
Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com.
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Comments
Aspirations
Submitted by commentkazi on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:30pm.
Can't the same be said for "Libyan rebels"?
What are their aspirations?
With google news you get this:
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:08am.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gu4Gy0Ae2dwQNIkJIQreLn...
complete with why the referendum favor the Brotherhood and recent violence between Muslims and Christians (5 days old). Is there a reason you linked to a story about Jordan?
What is rather more stunning is the media blackout concerning the treatment of protesters after the military cleared Tahrir Square 2 weeks ago. Torture seems to stay the weapon of choice against dissent.
To save Tom some time
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 1:32am.
As Tom said, and I checked, you can't find anything on the AP.org site. Not even the one you link to.
Also as Tom said, if you search "Muslim Brotherhood" on the AP.org site, the most recent article is about Jordan with nothing current about Egypt.
Any other reading comprehension issues I can help with, let me know.
The trogster seems to have picked up---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 4:02am.
a need to call out every article written by Tom Blumer.
Apparently troggie feels The Vet no longer reads his posts and is acting out.
Have yet to see Mr Blumer lose a point to troglodyt.
MD
Troggy Loves Mr. Tom Blumer
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 6:31am.
I remember the thorough thrashing Mr. Blumer gave poor troggy here and here. We are left to assume Troggy enjoys it in some perverted way. From now on, when Troggy posts to one of Mr. Blumers articles, I think I will reply with this.
MD
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:07am.
Not every article. Although, I thought about it...
The Vet is acting out. And his stand up comedy is awful.
Concerning your last statement: You have yet to open your eyes.
Watch out Tom
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:11am.
It's Troggy again.
I have to modify my statement from before.
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:20am.
Please Vet give us more. I'll even laugh. This here is just boring.
Boring
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:29am.
Says the guy who puts poor Mr. Blumer to sleep.
ZZZZZ..ZZZZZZZZ
Look familiar?
Your comments sting
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:43am.
like this torpedo (WARNING: SAILOR USE OF FOUL LANGUAGE). But try again.
No Thanks Troggy
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:49am.
I don't want to watch the video you shot of Mr. Blumers house at night. I'm sure it's nothing but dark windows and heavy breathing.
Iz found funnee germanzee joke on interloops
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:59am.
'An Englishman and a German are sitting in a bar. The Englishman tells a German a joke. When he delivers the punchline, the German does not laugh.
The Englishman says, "What's the matter with you; haven't you got a sense of humour?" The German replies, "No".
You are not a lost case.
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:05am.
This one is hilarious.
iz butt fall off? Iz roll floorz? Iz lolliz? Iz roffle mow mow?
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:13am.
Iz most funny merkel jokez. Not sourpuzz no laugh jokez You go here. Iz Roffle. Iz Mow. Iz lolliez at power laugh and laugh hold butt no fall down. Hurry. Go now. merkel is command you with power and poop on you.
Witty Reply...
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:45am.
Troggy is having some technical diffculties...but just you wait.
H/T to Free
Submitted by Rukus on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:43pm.
The Vet - 387, uh, can't keep up...
Troglodike - um, can't count in negatives
Reading comprehension?
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 6:58am.
I was nice this time and only pointed out that AP wrote something about the day of the referendum.
And your third sentence is technically incorrect. He didn't say that the most recent article is about Jordan. My guess: he took the wrong link. That's why I asked.
Your Guess...
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:04am.
I think it would be obvious to anyone that doesn't have a crush on Mr. Blumer and is seeking his attention that the link he provided showed what came up when you search "Muslim Brotherhood". It wouldn't be the "wrong" link since there was not a "right" link now was there? You wouldn't have had to ask if you had gone to AP.org and searched "Muslim Brotherhood".
Oh Yeah...and this.
I did go there.
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:14am.
And guess what: I didn't get one story. Now I realize why though: They don't like quotation marks around search terms.
And the right link would have been the following:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/external/search.hosted.ap.org/wireCoreTool/...
Because it shows the search results Tom was referencing.
The right link huh?
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:26am.
I don't know why you would use quotation marks in the first place. As far as the "right" link, every time you search, it takes you to a different site that shows the same results with the Jordan story first.
I also punched in the exact title (with no quotation marks) of the article you posted earlier and got nothing.
AND..
Why quotation marks?
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:40am.
A google-habit. It get's you better results.
I also punched in the exact title (with no quotation marks) of the article you posted earlier and got nothing.
Which is evidence that this site should not be used for research. It sucks on multiple levels. Or it is just my browser.
AP.org sucks
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:42am.
Got it. I think that is the point Mr. Blumer has been trying to make. Nice to see you finally got it too.
He might think that too
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:44am.
But you and I know that this is not what he aims at.
Either way
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:50am.
I'm sure he will appreciate the admission on your part.
But I think
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:59am.
he won't like the fact that the article I linked gets 47,000 hits on a google search. As many of them are US news outlets the following could be considered, well, inaccurate
Beyond that, the Associated Press's lack of coverage besides relaying the State Department's naive congratulations will work to ensure that few U.S. news consumers will be told that things in Egypt are ominously heading in a decidedly Islamist direction.
Assuming
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:13am.
That people will google the exact name of the article to get it since you can't find it on the AP.org site (because that site "sucks" according to you).
Which leads to the question
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:52am.
How many people use AP.org to inform themselves?
Why would they?
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:22am.
The AP sucks. I agree with you.
You see or hear their news every day ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:48am.
... at thousands of print, radio and TV outlets around the country.
iz red face. iz shame now.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:21am.
iz admit AP suck. suck bad. Just like unrequited loveheartcrush troggiz got on Mizter Blumer. merkel! low power now! sad. no laffeez. iz go make germanzee love poem about Mr. Blumer now..
47,000? No
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:28am.
Your German language search appears to come back with about 3,600 results. But if you move to the end of the listings, you learn that it's only 377. If you click to add "similar," it appears to go to 570 (if you go to the end of the listings and don't place blind trust in the 3600 results claimed).
A better indicator is a Google News English search which, sorted by date with duplicates, returns 277 items. This is relatively light coverage, considering that AP has something like 6,000 subscribing outlets (newspaper and broadcast). it indicates that the story was out there for a brief time, and was replaced by one that doesn't mention the Brotherhood.
The fact that the story is NOT at AP's main site means that it was either pulled or, after a relatively brief appearance, replaced. Subsequent stories on Egypt have included three or four which could have/should have mentioned the referendum results and the Brotherhood's resulting upper hand and didn't.
This is similar in a sense to how AP tagged the Detroit underwear bomber as Al Qaeda in early stories in December 2009 and then flushed that fact down the memory hole in subsequent write-ups. Only people paying close attention at the very beginning picked up the AQ connection. Generally, only people paying close attention on Sunday night picked up the MB's gains as a result of the referendum in Egypt.
The point stands: U.S. news consumers are mostly not aware of the Brotherhood's rising influence in Egypt because, except for a brief period immediately after the referendum, AP isn't telling them about it.
He's there Tom
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:30am.
Peeping Trog knows where you sleep.
Wonderful
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:54am.
Now google sucks too. Still it renders your point about AP moot.
Not it doesn't
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:00am.
... See the extended comment.
As a contributor to this site
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:09am.
Do you have the privilege to change your posts after somebody replies?
WTF?
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:57am.
Do you mean the "change" to indicate to someone who apparently didn't know better (I believe that would be you) that a search term was entered "(not in quotes)"? Puh-leeze.
Or the indication to readers that they should look at a comment for clarification and elaboration?
You've never seen posts updated here with information that may slightly revise a fact or two in the original post?
Are you upset that we actually have the ability to revise what we post when new evidence is learned so we can make it as accurate as possible?
Really, WTF?
Calm down
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:29am.
I meant the comment section. What you write when you converse with us low-lifes down here. Not your blog posts. I am pretty sure I replied to a two paragraph post, not one with five.
If you meant the comment section, it would have helped ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:49am.
... if you referred to comments and not "posts." Zheesh.
Our comments are "posted".
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:57am.
So the confusion is my fault. But anyway do you have this privilege? It's just curiosity.
iz broken heartz - tranzlatez - izbustedmeinheartz
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:05am.
iz sad now. Iz got crushez mizzer blumer. iz try to put egg on facez mizzer blumer. iz no egg on facez. mizzer blumer put egg on trogiz trolliz face. firzt is no requit iz lovez. then with egg on face trogiz trolliz. iz shame. iz sad. iz no powerz. only lonely. merkel is no poop today. only powerz sadnezzez. iz revenge naw. iz no go oo es aye. iz stay mountain. revenge you mizzer blumer. Ha! iz laugh now. hold butt. roll in dirty floor of mountain.
Less butt, but more videos, pleaze!
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:37pm.
Seriously where do you know this stuff from?
cereal.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 3:22pm.
iz maybe ask someonez where veet might be exposed to OVERSEAS songs. iz wuz always kinda stupid, huhzx?
1.) That the referendum
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:51am.
1.) That the referendum favors Mubarak's old party and the Muslim Brotherhood has been reported before and after the vote.
2.) According to AP.org (which is as we have seen is not very reliable) there is only one other post that references the Egyptian referendum. That is the one you mentioned in your article and dealt with the American response. One article where they should have included more context is the one about the Gates visit.
That this is generally underreported I agree with you. But my feeling is that this always happens. No matter what revolution or world event you look at. When it stops being sensational you get 3 paragraph reports with no context.
iz no more funny germanzee joke.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:10am.
iz torture American all iraqeez. iz torture libyanz udder libyanz. now iz torture trogiz trolliz. iz torture of brokenz heartz. mizzer blumer no requit luv. sadness aboundz in trolliz world. Power!. funneez. merkel!@@!@!11~11!!!!!!
Iz ready? zoom zoom zoom come funny german joke.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:53am.
Now. Finalz. iz time for best germanzee jokez. merkel favorite power iz thiz onez. Iz bacon iz eggz walk into bar. Iz bartender say sorry no serve breakfast. HaHaHaHaHaHa Power! LollieRofflesFloor!
Iz merekl point troggiz trolliz. iz laugh hard. iz butt merkel pop off.
Iz funny german joke strate from germanee to yu.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:21am.
iz diz time buttz fall off no can put back murrycane. Iz reddy to roll laugh butt floor down fall? merkel got question.Question: what iz difference between iz a tire and iz a rabbit? merkel got answer - They iz both made of rubber, except iz the rabbit. Ha! Ok.Ok.Ok. Maybe replace rabbit with pig? Anyway, iz funny joke in german. pliz try and tranzlaze or merkel get power get poop on you murrycane.
iz funny german joke.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 4:43am.
you iz murrycane. you iz know all funniz. you laugh fall down throw up roll over collect butt that fall off. iz funniz. you no laugh. troggiz no more joke. iz many german police got breathalyzer. not all very very poor german poliz no got breathalyzer. they got picture merkel. iz want to find if you drunk. iz show picture merkel. say to you "iz attactive, nah?" Oh lolliz roffle tickets. Ha! Oh you no laugh poop on you murrycane. power to merkel perkelz.
The Middle East Will Be On Fire
Submitted by Lentenlands on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 6:45am.
Just don’t be surprised after America has brought the muslim sisterhood to power in all the Middle East, that the islamic cowards will band together to annihilate Israel in an attempt to wipe them from the face of the Earth.
The blood of that conflict will be upon the heads of all the illuminists, marxists and globalists promoting this massacre.
And Israel will have it’s greatest victory yet when islam bands together and attacks it.
Goodbye democracy
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:06am.
So Obama has been instrumental in bringing strict Muslim fanatics into power in Egypt and Libya (so far). Hope and change is alive and well in the terror heartland.
Vet
Submitted by troglodyt on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:22am.
More. And more frequently please. Every post of mine should trigger the release of 4 gerrrrrmanie jokes on your part.
iz no like mother languagez joke murrycane?
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:46am.
Iz no laugh at troggiz volkz. Iz only laugh at merkel. becauz iz power merkel. Yu stop now. troggiz iz nice. Rilly. u make fun trolliz, you funny like punch gut. Yu go here. yu fine funny merkel joke.
"There doesn't seem to be a
Submitted by mamabear on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:53am.
"There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for Coptic Christians or other non-Muslims in the above set of beliefs"
So, if you replace the religious statements in their set of beliefs and replace Islam with Christianity, don't you get a pretty good match to conservative Christian ideology in this country? Ignoring the social justice parts, of course.
Many conservatives, I think but correct me if I'm wrong, believe that this country's government was founded on Christian principles, that Christianity should still be the basis for individual morality, and that only a return to those principles can lead us forward as a healthy society. I've heard pretty much that exact sentiment expressed here on NB multiple times.
And yet non-Christians in this country do great! So while I understand why this development makes people nervous, I wouldn't go so far as to say that this somehow by its nature excludes Coptic Christians or other beliefs from participating in the government they are establishing. At least, not any more than the beliefs of many people in this country would.
More FAIL
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:04am.
"..,that Christianity should still be the basis for individual morality.." You unknowingly answered your own question. When Christians start beheading non believers on Main Street, USA, let me know.
Also, Sharia Law itself excludes any other beliefs from participating. How many Christians are involved in the government of Iran or any other Islamic state?
That's my whole point. If
Submitted by mamabear on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:38pm.
That's my whole point. If what they actually mean is individual morality, then it isn't that different than a conservative Christian position. If they are going beyond individual morality to imposing religion on people, then they are violating their own statement. If the point of this post had been to say "look at how they fail to adhere to this reasonable statement" I wouldn't have had a problem with it. I have a problem with presenting the statement as something horrible and extreme when it really isn't that different (the religious parts) from what a conservative Christian would say if asked to describe the relationship between the US government and Christianity.
Your Point Fails too
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:41pm.
Since you based it on only part of the quote. "They believe the Quran and Sunna must be the basis of individual morality, and stress application of the Shari’a in all relevant matters." What is Shari'a law but imposing religion on people. They wouldn't be violating their own statement then would they? Shari'a law is not extreme? Are you really that ignorant?
Well, unless I'm mistaken,
Submitted by mamabear on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:40am.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, Christianity doesn't have a parallel to Sharia, which is why I didn't try to draw one. If there was, though, would people who want the Ten Commandments on our courthouses and honestly believe that our government only functions when governing moral Christian people (I'm thinking the Adams quote that comes up here a lot) really be against using it?
If..If....If....
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:48am.
First you tried to draw a parallel between Christianity and Islam by willfully ignoring the Sharia aspect of the quote you used. Now that you were called out on that, we get a what if scenario. The fact that there isn't a parallel to Sharia should speak for itself without throwing the "but if there were" stuff in there.
Um, the whole thing was a
Submitted by mamabear on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 5:31pm.
Um, the whole thing was a what if scenario from the beginning, it's not like I started speculating because of something you said!
Inferencing, mamabear style
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:21am.
So you believe we should behead homosexuals? You believe it's o.k. for women to be killed if they are raped? You believe that infidels must convert or be killed?
I thought you liberals were compassionate people?
Rad....
Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:02am.
If there ever was an example of extreme ignorance of an enemy, this is it. I seriously doubt the truth will make itself known to her until it's too late. The only reason anyone would embrace such a group is because they are the enemy of their enemy, which is America.
-Jon
Jon
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:37am.
Was it you or someone else who wrote the other day that we are heading towards WWIII, and the combatants will be the Christians and the Muslims? There will be a third side, the people who support the muslims until their heads roll. Literally.
Rad, It was me
Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 1:29pm.
Yeah, I said the opponents would be Christianity vs Islam. It's not really a third side, those that might side with the Muslims because it'll still be Christianity vs Islam, but I do see what you mean. In any case, as you point out, that side are just as much infidels to Islam as anyone else. And they are nothing but a bunch of damned fools.
-Jon
If you told me I had no other
Submitted by mamabear on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:43pm.
If you told me I had no other choice than to choose either Christianity or Islam, I'd choose Christianity. But I reject the idea that we are already at the point of all or nothing, us or them, kill them all. Until we get there, I think I can talk about Islam in a polite way and try to keep an open mind without endangering the war effort.
mamabear
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:17pm.
By the time we get there, it will be to late. Are you keeping your mind open or empty? Do you read anything about what goes is islamic countries? In islamic communities in secular countries?
Oh, it'll become known
Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:01pm.
to folks who see no difference between Christians and Muslims. In that nano-second between when the blade hits the back of their neck, and then severs their spinal cord.
They could start beheading people wherever it is that Grislybear does what she does, and she'd wonder if they were really serious.
"So you believe we should
Submitted by mamabear on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 9:35pm.
"So you believe we should behead homosexuals? You believe it's o.k. for women to be killed if they are raped? You believe that infidels must convert or be killed?"
No, I don't think those things. I'm very specifically saying that if you just look at that statement,without making inferences about what you assume it will mean because you think Muslims are all crazy people, it's not that different from what conservative Christians say.
As I very clearly stated, I think it is perfectly reasonable to be worried about this development. But holding up that statement as the worrying part, when it is not fundamentally different from similar statements made by people you like and agree with, seems inflammatory.
What I don't like is a position that it is okay for our religion to say "Our government was founded on these principles, they are the basis for personal morality, it is our failure to adhere to those principles that causes our current moral decay and we have to return to them," but not okay for anyone else's religion to say that.
Just make sure, grislybear, that you keep--
Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:12pm.
copies of all your feel good posts about another's religion, i.e. Islam, so that if by chance the Islamic hordes swarm all over America, you will have proof of your benevolence of thought for them.
Whatever it takes, do NOT let the Imams see copies of your sensitive, caring, concerned comments about homosexuals and homosexuality.
You probably wouldn't last too long, but who knows, you might be remembered as a martyr for the cause for that brief shining moment before Islam snuffs all non-believers and members of GLBT and GLAAD.
MD
When exactly do you foresee
Submitted by mamabear on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:41am.
When exactly do you foresee this mass invasion happening? Just so I can get all of my documents in order, you know.
Short-sighted Europeans ....
Submitted by NL207 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:47am.
were saying this very thing 30 years ago. Today, they understand multiculturalism is a failure.
You have no more vision or wisdom than they did.
Today, Europe struggles to
Submitted by mamabear on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 5:34pm.
Today, Europe struggles to deal with multiculturalism half as well as we do, but I don't think that's an argument for it's failure. The US is the example of how multiculturalism succeeds! Europe is just a little behind us.
It is clear to me, at least ...
Submitted by NL207 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 7:13pm.
that you don't know squat about what is going on in Europe. It also does not appear that you have a clue about the Civil Society either.
Multiculturalism has failed just as miserably here in the US as it has in Europe. Only liberals, drunk with their own ideology, believe otherwise. It has led to special group identity politics and balkanization of American culture. We now have numerous small enclaves of ethnic minorities who have failed to adequately assimilate into American culture. We see government sponsored programs to compel traditional Americans to adapt to these alien cultures instead of the other way around. Multicultualism is a direct threat to the civil society.
I believe a solid majority of native European stock want to eject the Muslims from Europe. I am absolutely certain this is the case in Germany. They wish this but are afraid to say so out loud for fear of being labeled 'nazi', 'fascist', or 'racist'. I have frequently heard these sentiments when visiting there. Angela Merkel has recently given voice to a limited expression of these thoughts. Gunter Grass has led a group of German intellectuals who have challenged the notion that Islam is compatible with Western Civilization and hav questioned the moral legitimacy of Islamic Culture itself.
Europe "struggles" with multiculturalism
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:21pm.
because it doesn't work. You cannot have a group of people come into a country with an unwillingness to adapt their language and laws to their new home without causing huge internal problems.
There is a word for this ...
Submitted by NL207 on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 8:59pm.
Invasion.
The reply by NL207, grislybear---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 9:31pm.
is perfect.
It cannot be improved upon.
MD
I am happy to see this happening.
Submitted by Ashrak on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:51am.
Many snap on me about this but I stand firm.
I want the world to have to face the Islamic Zealots without being able to excuse it and pretend this problem doesn't exist.
I have come to know that the only way the apologists, the deniers, will be unable to continue with either tactic is for the Brotherhood to come out of the shadows - and Egypt is a good place to start.
Go ahead House, go ahead Senate, send billions upon billions of our tax dollars directly to the Muslim Brotherhood. Go for it, see what happens to you in the next election.
Enough of the "front group" garbage (Think Hamas). Enough of the obfuscation. Enough of the "plausible deniablity".
I want to see this continue. I want to watch the Europeans deny the ugliness that is Sharia and its virginity checks. Let's see the "tolerance" the peaceniks espouse as the Muslims come out of the closet.
Ask yourselves, which is more dangerous - the Muslim Brotherhood operating in the shadows or doing so where all can see? I submit it is time for all the world to see it for what it is and that we will all benefit from it being exposed for what it is.
The implications of the Egyptian referendum and the expanding
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:27pm.
influence of the Muslim Brotherhood has been the subject of extensive reporting, scholarly analyses, essays and opinion pieces appearing in a variety of domestic and international media outlets. And any American consumer capable of executing a rudimentary google search can gain instant access to a veritable tsunami of information on the topic [such as this from AP excerpted below] which he or she may spend hours absorbing if so desired.
While Mubarak's overthrow has left Egyptians euphoric about their newfound freedoms, many are also worried about the social tensions and instability that could spiral in the wake of the autocratic leader's departure Christian-Muslim clashes this month left at least 13 killed and more than 100 wounded in the worst sectarian clashes in years. On Jan. 1, a suicide bomber blew himself up outside a church in the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria, killing at least 22 worshippers and wounding scores. A few days later, a policeman shot dead an elderly Christian man on a train.
The Brotherhood, which has strongly campaigned for the adoption of the changes, advocates the installment of an Islamic government in Egypt. The ambivalence of its position on what role women and minority Christians play under their hoped-for Islamic government - like whether they could run for president or be judges - worry large segments of society.
In the province of Luxor, thousands of Brotherhood supporters and Salafis, zealous adherents to practices from Islam's early days, held separate demonstrations in the city center to campaign for a "yes" vote.
Churches handed out fliers to worshippers calling on them to vote "no."
Jer
Asked ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 1:38pm.
... answered.
Answered but not validated.
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 2:30pm.
The point stands: U.S. news consumers are mostly not aware of the Brotherhood's rising influence in Egypt because, except for a brief period immediately after the referendum, AP isn't telling them about it.
Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2011/03/25/us-media-mostly-m...
If U.S. news consumers are mostly not aware ot the Brotherhood's rising influence in Egypt, it is because they are deliberately ignoring the multitude of articles detailing same.
The point having suffered grievous injury bravely struggles to maintain its footing before finally collapsing in a pitiful heap. ;-)
Jer
You just proved that it's asked and answered ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 4:49pm.
... because 85-86% (maybe 80% now) of the public, i.e., news consumers, are disengaged and won't be exposed to the relatively sparse level of coverage out there.
Ergo, "U.S. news consumers are mostly not aware of the Brotherhood's rising influence in Egypt because, except for a brief period immediately after the referendum, AP isn't telling them about it."
Argument, as usual, over.
"Not validated", in liberal lawyerspeak means---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:06pm.
"You haven't convinced me. You cannot convince me. And you will never convince me because I am right and you are wrong. So there."
MD
Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:13pm.
Aren't your flower arranging classes scheduled for Saturday afternoons?
Yes or No?
Jer
Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:21pm.
You still hitting those gay bars and not telling the wife?
Yes or No?
MD
Nah, Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:50pm.
It was fun for awhile but then it became a drag.
Jer
Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 6:00pm.
So you really did quit wearing female apparel.
Good for you.
MD
LOL!
Submitted by Rukus on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:08pm.
That there was funny, I don't care who you are! You two crack me up. Don't never, EVER stop! EVER! LOL! I love it! I love you guys! Oops! Do I have to wear a dress now? Eeeewww! That's a bad sight, NTTAWWT! LOL!
And Blumer, summoning the very last vestige of his waning
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:35pm.
resolve, links a four-year old statistic of dubious relevance offered by none other than the renowned authority--i.e., himself!--manages a barely audible, but triumphant, "argument over" only to again crumble to the unforgiving pavement.
Jer
No, it wasn't offered by me, it referred to ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 6:44pm.
... him.
And the argument he made 4-5 years ago about 85%-86% still rules and applies to the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't coverage, with the qualifier that the Tea Party movement may have moved it to 80%.
The argument was over several comments ago.
I see, Tom...
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:01pm.
and you just accidentally linked to your website and your analysis instead of Hoffenblum? ;-)
But, you're right about the argument having run its course.
Later,
Jer
Zheesh
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 7:55pm.
I deliberately linked to Hoffenblum's argument as excerpted at my site, because Prestopundit, the guy who originally blogged on it, doesn't have his blog up any more.
So sue me.
Relax, Tom...
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:06pm.
I was just kidding around with you.
Jer
Uh-huh ...
Submitted by Tom Blumer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:39pm.
... so was Sheryl Crowe. Uh-huh.
WHAT!!! She was just JOKING??
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 8:56pm.
And I've been obediently observing the "one square" rule for the past four years...folding and refolding and re-refolding that one freakin' piece of TP.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I'm going to Sam's Club and buying their entire stock of Charmin.
Jer
Folding...
Submitted by Rukus on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:23pm.
That reminds me of a bar bet I lost a jillion years ago. You cannot fold any paper (tissue included) in half eight times. Try it, it's impossible. I've tried over and over and have never been able to do it. Sorry to go off topic Mr. Blumer, I figured you guys needed a break. ; )
Yeah, I fell for that one
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:29pm.
Yeah, I fell for that one too...back in my young and gullible days.
Jer
Stick to defending Maher.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 4:59pm.
He needs some help over here.
Will do....
Submitted by Jer on Sat, 03/26/2011 - 5:52pm.
Currently in research mode.
Jer