Matthews Defends Koran Burnings: 'Proper Way of Disposing' Religious Articles in the West
Just how far is MSNBC's Chris Matthews willing to go to shield President Obama from criticism this election year?
On Monday's Hardball, the host defended Koran burnings saying, "In Western religions when you have a religious article, the proper way of disposing it is burning it. So it's not a desecration...An American would never burn something to desecrate it. That would be a way of treating a holy object" (video follows with transcript and commentary):
CHRIS MATTHEWS: But why are they running around the streets going nuts? Don’t they have places they have to be? Don’t they have something else to do? I’m serious about this. They have devoted their entire beings now to going nuts against us because of what a couple of guys did either intentionally for some reason that may have been justified or unintentionally.
By the way, in Western religions when you have a religious article, the proper way of disposing it is burning it. So it is not a desecration. So it’s their interpretation of what they see as a desecration. We don’t look it at that way. An American would never burn something to desecrate it. That would be a way of treating a holy object. That is the appropriate way to do it.
So I don’t, this whole thing looks like they just don’t like us, they don’t like the West, they think we’re still the Soviets, and we’re never going to be their friends.
First off, when America-haters burn the flag, they are not treating it as a holy object. I guess in his zeal to protect the President he adores, Matthews didn't consider this.
Taking this further, the entire premise was flawed.
From what I have found in my research, it is really only Roman Catholics that suggest the burning of old, worn out Bibles. Most other Christian denominations don't have such a requirement nor do Jews with the Torah.
But Matthews wasn't finished:
MATTHEWS: Look at these multitude of people here, raising their arms, yelling and screaming like nothing else matters to them on this planet except that we burned their holy book. Nothing’s as important to these people as this fact – not that they’re fighting the Taliban, not that al Qaeda’s waiting to come back in, not that they’re facing Sharia law.
It really was fascinating to watch Matthews get so worked up about Muslims reacting this way to Korans being burned.
After all, when Florida pastor Terry Jones has threatened this in the past, the Hardball host was beside himself with anger.
Here's Matthews on September 9, 2010:
MATTHEWS: Leading off tonight: Who'll stop the fire? What can the president do to stop the minister, the pastor down in Georgia -- or actually, Florida -- from burning Korans on worldwide television? How do you stop the wildfire that this could ignite globally?...Let's start with whether President Obama needs to get involved and stop the pastor from what he's up to down in Florida.
Matthews had interviewed Jones a few weeks earlier begging him not to burn Korans on the anniversary of 9/11:
MATTHEWS: Now to Pastor Terry Jones, who's planning to commemorate 9/11 by burning Q'urans. He joins us from Florida via Skape -- Skype, rather. Reverend Jones, Pastor Jones, is there anybody in America you respect enough that if they made a phone call to you, you`d decide not to burn the Q'`urans on 9/11? Is there anybody you respect enough that if they got on the phone with you or visited with you, sir, and spoke with you, that you would change your mind? Because I think it`s a terrible idea. But your reaction to that question?
TERRY JONES, PASTOR, DOVE WORLD OUTREACH CENTER: No, there's not.
MATTHEWS: So who do you respect in America, public life?
JONES: Well, I respect politicians who --
MATTHEWS: No, give me a name, sir. Give me a name of person in American life, public life, that you respect. Or are you completely against what`s going on in America, period? Do you have anybody that you look up to as something like a hero today, anyone in America? We have almost 300 million people. Do you like or respect anyone, sir?
JONES: I guess so. I guess our --
MATTHEWS: Enough to listen to them?
JONES: -- ex-president, President Bush.
MATTHEWS: President George W. Bush. If George W. Bush, the former president, were to call you up now or visit with you and say, I think this is going to cause trouble in the Arab and Islamic world, I will not -- I really think you shouldn't be burning Q'urans in public on that day, it`s their holy book, would you not do it?
So, in 2010 when Jones was threatening to burn Korans to commemorate 9/11, Matthews was completely against it realizing "this is going to cause trouble in the Arab and Islamic world."
He later reiterated, "Even if George W. Bush were to call you up, Pastor Jones, and urge you not to commit this action, which will be televised worldwide, and could cause trouble and even death, you would continue ahead with your plan to do this?"
But eighteen months later when members of the American military burned Korans bringing criticism to Obama, Matthews wondered, "Why are [Afghanis] running around the streets going nuts? Don’t they have places they have to be? Don’t they have something else to do?"
Not only that, the Hardball host erroneously claimed, "In Western religions when you have a religious article, the proper way of disposing it is burning it. So it is not a desecration."
And he's got TWO nationally televised programs to spew such propaganda.
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Comments
I repeat.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 8:38pm.
I opt out of ANY apology Obama makes in the name of the USA.
Islam can kiss my ass.
I agree with Mathews? OMG!@ *&%$
Submitted by Ashrak on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 8:46pm.
I submit that these Korans were ALREADY defaced and thus desecrated. This was done by Muslims writing in them. This is the proper way, in many people's eyes, of destroying something that has been desecrated.
Now, I have a hunch, and it is based on how some of the reporting has gone forth.....It needs to be ferreted out who actually "threw them away".
Who put them with other "refuse" to be burned in the first place? Sounds kind of like this could have ben a set up, kinda like the "flushed Koran" story that shipped up riots last time.
Might it be possible that someone "arranged" this in order to fabricate what has happened?
Coooouuuuulllld be.
It is all just to sketchy.
One thing that most Americans DO agree on to match the Muslim agreement when it come to the Koran is our Flag. With SOOOOOO many different religions and views, it is apples and oranges to compare this scenario to anything BUT our flag. C'mon, let;s keep it real.
What is the way to dispose of a desecrated flag? Oh yeah, burning it. Take a young kid, 22 years old or in that neighborhood, thinks about how to deal with these books - he turns to his own knowledge - How does one deal with a tender issue like this? Oh yeah, the flag! Burning is the answer. It fits. It makes sense - from an Americans point of view in that mindset.
I submit this was either a straight up set up - or it was just a youngster trying to do the right thing as best they knew how. Could I be wrong? Well sure, but let's be honest here -
NOTHING justifies 4 murders and riots in the streets in response to this. They burn our flag intentionally BECAUSE they understand the comparison I made here. Are "leaders" of these many Muslim nations going to come out and "apologize" every time their people do so?
It is time to stop coddling Islam, it is time it get the SAME respect as EVERY other religion.
Crosses in piss jars, Pope imitators at Hollywood events Jesus on the cover of magazines. If it is so "offensive" ti Islam and Muslims, then dangit, apply that same standard to other religions - OR tellt he Muslims to SUCK IT UP and accept it just like everyone else has to.
I am so sick and tired of the world cowering before the barbarism. Knock it off. Muslim are just people, they are not elite untouchable groups that have a right not to be offended and be cowtowed to every day over everything. Enough is Enough.
Bingo,
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 10:01pm.
I agree, 100%!
As far as I am concerned, I think Muslims and their Koran should be made fun of, every chance one gets, for their hysterics, if nothing else.
We have several long time friends who are Muslims, before 9/11 I always figured them to be very similar to the Indian's (dot) that I know, as in, very mild, bright, and polite. Since, I have asked them questions about their politics and religion. They dont even consider themselves as "those" Muslims.
Interesting this disconnect?
Boudin
Submitted by Radical1979 on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 10:11pm.
As I said the other day, my husband's car mechanic is muslim. I refuse to send him my business. I don't trust any muslim.
Woa! back off girl!
Submitted by MightyMouth on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 1:11am.
Most muslims are like most Christans, in a word, secular! Yeah they identify themselves as such, but they aint going to give up money for their faith! Everyone has lines they wont cross!
Mighty Mouth
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:34am.
Well when those secular muslims aren't afraid to stand up against the radicals maybe I'll rethink my position. Until I see some of that I consider them complicent in the crimes against women, Christians, and Americans.
really?
Submitted by Tatfreak79 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 8:11am.
how is that not as bigoted as the beating Santorum is taking for his religion. that attitude is exactly what progressives accuse us of. my battle buddy in the Army was muslim and I trust him with my life.
Muslim Army soldiers
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 9:49am.
I think the same was said about Major Nadal Hassan at some point.....
Before he killed 14 people in Ft. Hood.(one was an unborn baby)
Just saying....
-Jon
@jon_torlin - I'm betting the same could......
Submitted by Timothy H on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:17pm.
also have been said for Timothy McVeigh, as well.
And he believed himself to be a Christian and a Patriot who was set of by the Waco fiasco involving David Koresh.
Before he killed 168 people and injured 450 more in Oklahoma City (19 of the dead were children in the second floor day care)
Are you also suspect of Christians and Patriots? I'd like to know if you are bigoted against me, as well, since I am both.
Just saying....
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
lame lame LAME!
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:25pm.
That's a lame response and you know it.
Those two examples you gave were just that, TWO examples and not the norm for Christianity and Patriots.
What Hassan did was what's PRESCRIBED by the "religion of peace" of Islam, it's in their Koran. That's THEIR norm. I'm sure you can tell the distinctive difference between the two.
If you can't, go ahead and call me bigoted, I don't care. Us conservatives get called all kinds of things anyway, so what?
-Jon
@jon_torlin - Call it lame. It's also called ACCURATE....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 9:30am.
See, I can use caps, too. And you are right. Those are just two examples of Christian extremists doing horrible things. Unfortunately for your argument, they aren't the only two examples. Even more unfortunate to your argument is that most Muslims look at those extremists in their "ranks" the same way we do, as loons from the fringe that either live in the stone age or need psychiatric help. And far more damaging to your argument is the fact that Extremists from every religion use religious works to justify their hate.
But you continue to single out one religion's idiots as their core. It's no different than guys like Bill Maher who can cite verses in the Bible and use them to make us evil or stupid, but who has no idea what they actually mean. Interpretation can make Jesus a liberal, can it not?
You refuse to believe the fact that some see the Bible as a call or justification to believe in bigotry, hate, pedophilia, polygamy, rape, murder and more. But its the case none the less. And I'm no religion bashing Bill Maher-type. I love God and country.
And before you go getting all "conservative" self-righteous on me again, as if I'm some liberal on the level of thought-police, you might want to use that nifty little "track" button they installed in everyone's profile, sport. You'll find that I am no liberal. You'll also find that I have no problems rolling up my sleeves and debating people with facts, logic and reason. And that I have no problem calling them as I see them, nor will I back down just because someone uses CAPS or attempts to talk down in that nifty internet bully way. It certainly won't win an argument with me, so you may want to rethink your strategy.
Finally, you'll find that I'm not one to believe in one party-one mind. I don't toe anyone's line or spew anyone's talking points. And I don't decide that a "conservative" like you is correct just because you used that word. I fail to see what bigotry has to do with conservatism. Hiding bigotry behind conservatism just hurts conservatism.
So you can go wrap yourself up in your elephant flag and march out there next to Bill Maher and his donkey flag and spew the same kind of nonsense in reverse. But whether it's his Christian bigotry or your Muslim brand, it's still the same ugly crap, whether you care or not. That's what.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Might want to check on some
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 9:45am.
Might want to check on some of your "facts", cause they dont seem to be panning out too well, partner.
⇒ It's a good question
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:27pm.
I agree there is no sense getting into an argument that "he wasn't a Christian because if he was, he wouldn't . . ."
In other words, McVeigh is as Christian as President Obama is Muslim.
Soooo....Cool Arrow.
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 9:00am.
He was raised catholic and maintained core beliefs (though he distanced himself from catholicism) so the fact that he said he was and you provided evidence of such are irrelevant because he isn't a christian by your terms (I happen to agree with you that he isn't Christian by my definition, either, for the record)? Kinda sounds like how every Muslim I know feels about guys like Hasan (and I was raised a great deal of my life in Dearborn, MI, so I have been acquainted with my fair share of Muslims).
But what I find even more interesting is that the very place you copied and pasted that from goes on to explain that Timothy McVeigh WAS in fact a following tenets of the extremist sect Christian Identity and that he was very influenced by the Turner Diaries, which were in turn influenced by the Christian Identity.
Sooooooo.....I'll be honest here, CA. I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me and stating that Obama is a Muslim (which makes little sense. Jeremiah Wright, who we were all concerned about his influence over the president who sat in his pews for 20 years, is a Christian minister) or if you are attempting to mock me, at which point I'll be more than willing to debate you on this one in depth if you'd like.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ Sooo Timothy
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:17am.
Where in my post did I deny Timothy McVeigh identified with Christianity. His response was very much in line with the experience many Americans had with religion at an early age. Follow so far?
My post was an assertion that one can't throw out McVeigh's statement just because it doesn't align perfectly one's personal beliefs.
And Obama? He was a Muslim as a child just like McVeigh was a Christian as a child. And, no, I couldn't care less whether you wish to defend Obama attendance at mosque as a child or the prayers to Allah he learned as a child, as being somehow different in nature from a Christian child growing up going to mass.
It occurs to me you're pretty thin-skinned and needy if you interpreted my post as "mocking" you. Seriously?
Nothing of the sort was intended towards you, personally, but I'll be extra careful in the future now that I'm aware of that growth on your sleeve
⇒ And yes, Timothy H
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:30am.
Now I'm mocking you.
Crybaby.
Soooo....Cool Arrow
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:31pm.
Are you making fun of me?
Bully...... And an internet bully, at that.
;)
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ I didn't start it
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:40pm.
You did.
All I did was offer a post agreeing with you, that Timothy McVeigh's faith wasn't all that different from that of many who call themselves Christian.
Am I sorry you were unable to understand? Not really. You're free to internalize.
LMAO! Cool Arrow. You presume too much.....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:28pm.
You didn't offend me. I only asked because I had to rewrite after I realized that I wasn't sure what direction you were coming from.
I thought originally that this (your actual intent) was exactly where you were coming from, but I wasn't sure and ended up rewriting the whole thing. Then I second guessed my second guess and asked what the heck you meant. I probably should have erased the whole damned thing and just asked the question, lol.
I'm not thin-skinned at all and quite frankly, while I've known you for years here....I don't actually "know" you and couldn't care any more what you think at any given moment that you care what I think. Not trying to be rude, just being honest about the nature of the internet.
When I noted "mocking" I figured that if you indeed were, that it was good-natured. I think we've both been around here long enough to know that you and I will agree 99.99999% of the time. I doubt Timothy McVeigh's religious preference would somehow be the straw that tipped the scales of civility between us.
But why the emotional response and all the bold print just for the word "mocking?" A mock is just a taunt or jeer, correct? Simple ridicule, no? Did it strike a nerve? ;p
And I honestly didn't get the Obama reference at all, which is why I asked. I actually disagree, though, since McVeigh was an imprisoned adult when he said that he believed in God and the core beliefs of the Catholic faith (which the most core of would be Christ). Obama was a child. McVeigh was an adult. Different, even. ;)
And now one more question......out of curiosity, what's the reference to the growth on the sleeve? I don't get it, lol.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ Growth on the sleeve
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:45pm.
It's an old reference to people who wear their feelings on their sleeve, (normally "heart on your sleeve" is the reference, but other emotions have been substituted.)
Honestly, I was not taking a jab at you, and I honestly do believe Timothy McVeigh's casual association with Christianity is as valid as Obama's with Islam. In both cases, influence was exerted on a developing mind, and both claimants to their respective values admitted such.
Truce?
No truce.....Cool Arrow
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:03pm.
None needed. There was no war. Just a touch of friendly fire, lol.
And, like I said, I didn't think you were at first, but then I realized I'd feel awfully silly if I responded like we agreed and found out you were making a joke. So I figured I'd ask before making a complete ass of myself.
When you put it that way, in terms of development, I agree. Though McVeigh's association with Christianity lasted longer and I think had a deeper impact while I feel that the Muslim faith had minimal impact on Obama and that Wright and his caustic messages along with Chicago politics had more to do with molding Obama. But that doesn't negate your point.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ And I think
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:18pm.
And I'm of the opinion Barack Obama is far more sympathetic to Islamic values than Christian.
Dear Mr. and Mrs American, I would have sent you this sympathy card sooner on the death of your soldier son last week in Afghanistan, but I was real busy sucking up to that Muslim government while slapping around a bunch of wrong-headed Catholic bishops. this multi-tasking is hard
What core beliefs has President Obama demanded American Muslims violate? He won't even publicly recognize Radical Islam as a threat.
I get where you're coming from, Cool Arrow, but.....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:29pm.
I see this as a problem in the liberal hemisphere. I'd be inclined to agree if his actions were counter to the rest of the liberals. Do you remember who the most frequent guest of the Clinton White House was? Yasser Arafat, by a long lead.
The attacks on Christianity go back a century for progressives in this country. The idea that it's somehow different because of Obama doesn't sit right for me. Like I said, I would get your point if I looked at it from strictly his positions. But in context, he's just doing the same things the rest of the liberals have been doing for decades. I don't see the difference or the islamic influence, unless Clinton was raised Muslim. Or Carter.
I think it's two different issues. The Christianity issue is about taking apart America's core value system. The Muslim thing is about being afraid. I doubt I have to elaborate on either of those concepts for you to get them, so I won't, as I'm tires and ready for bed.
Talk to you later, buddy.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ You caught my drift
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:33pm.
The inflammatory note I interjected was exactly that, a reference to "by their fruits you will know them".
And me too. I'm off to the golf course with my wife.
Oh, and Cool Arrow....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:31pm.
If you somehow dig up that Clinton and Carter WERE secretly raised Muslim, then my whole opinion on the situation is due for a complete re-evaluation and makeover, lol
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
⇒ Start the reevaluation, Timothy
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 6:42pm.
You completely sidestepped a request for inclusion of evidence Clinton or Carter ever demanded a Christian religion violate its conscience.
Actually Timothy, you're
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 9:42am.
Actually Timothy, you're incorrect....McVeigh was NOT a Christian, he was Agnostic. It's a common misconception among liberals, as well as conservatives.
http://bigjournalism.com/rfutrell/2010/10/25/timothy-mcveigh-was-not-a-c...
"Timothy McVeigh was not Christian. Love ya Juan, and sorry to hear about what happened with NPR, but Timothy McVeigh was not Christian. He was agnostic. He made the statement many times to newspapers. He also said “science is my religion.” McVeigh was Catholic as a young child, but never really practiced the religion. He told the authors of American Terrorist that he “did not believe in Hell.” If there’s one tenet that’s consistent with Christian religions, it’s a belief in Hell—and Heaven, for that matter."
While McVeigh was set off by what he saw as "Big brother" government, calling him Christian would be like calling Bill Maher a Christian. He was not.
Funny enough, NC Cop....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:24am.
His own words in the above post would seem to say that he did still maintain the core beliefs.
While he may not be "your" version of christian, or "mine" for that matter, he told Time Magazine that he he received sacriment and that he still held the core beliefs, and as such, would be "his" version. While I respect Brietbart and Futrell, there's just as much evidence to say he was, including his own quotes and his love of the Turner Diaries, as there is to say he wasn't. More, IMO.
I'll take his words over others on what he himself believed. I can find no quote of McVeigh's where he disavows Christianity, but Cool provided one above where he does affirm that he still holds core beliefs of Catholicism and that he does believe in God. Now, we could split hairs, but if you claim core catholic beliefs and a belief in God, then you would be claiming belief in the Christian God. And that would make him some form of extremist Christian, Futrell's disbelief notwithstanding.
On a side note, the article you noted, which I was familiar with, is pretty biased in and of itself. He makes note of McVeigh stating to papers that he wasn't Christian, but provides no links or lists. He then proceeds to inform us of what a Christian is but fails to mention that his view (which I happen to agree with) is not held universally, nor does he mention that his version (again, also mine) means that, by his definition, America can no longer claim to be a majority-Christian nation, as the majority of Americans do not "then try to live a life consistent with that statement" (the belief in Christ). Finally, he states than McVeigh did neither, but that's not true, either. McVeigh acknowledges core catholic beliefs (and what's more core to Catholicism than Christ?) and while he may not have lived our version of a Christian life, he was following a more extreme view, such as the Christian Identity movement that McVeigh has been linked to. The problem is that his article should have been titled "Timothy McVeigh Was Not My Kind Of Christian."
And while you noted the "Big Government" connection, you failed to note that it was the Branch Davidian (another extremist christian sect) compound assault that triggered him, not the idea of universal healthcare or national ID cards.
Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of denomination of Christianity and not all of them fit into our vision of what a Christian should be. But in the Time article, McVeigh clearly states that he still held those core "Catholic" beliefs.
The comparison of someone who holds core beliefs to someone who believes that the holding of those core beliefs makes one stupid isn't a very good one.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Well, I think it's well
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:33am.
Well, I think it's well documented that he said "Sciene is my religion". I'm not sure how you can get Christian out of that. Having a set of "core beliefs" does not make you a Christian. Saying you believe in God does not make you a Christian. Christians believe in Hell, McVeigh does not.
I don't think there is enough evidence to confidently call McVeigh a Christian.
As for Koresh, he was a nutcase of the highest order and indeed he was a Christian, and I am certainly not saying that noone ever committed extreme acts in the name of Christianity, but I whole heartedly disagree with the McVeigh connection and in whole the number of murderous acts committed by Muslim extremists far outnumber those committed by Christian extremists. I think comparing the two is not accurate.
Sorry, NC Cop, but that says nothing more than...
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:09pm.
that he contradicted himself a lot. I don't pretend to know what the heck was rolling through that man's head. But I wish you could see where I'm coming from here. You point to things he said that, alone and in a vacuum, would mean he didn't believe in a Christian God. But nowhere in those statements does he say he doesn't believe in God. In contrast, when asked directly if he believes in God, he says he does. When asked about religion, he says he still hold the core belief s of Catholicism, but is no longer a catholic (something that applies to many protestant denominations, BTW). The idea that he doesn't believe in hell doesn't mean he doesn't believe in God. It means he doesn't believe the way you or I do and it might be part of the reason he moved away from Catholicism but not the core Christian beliefs as he saw them.
I don't believe in baptizing children. You might (I don't know and it really doesn't matter to the discussion). We would have differences in opinions on core beliefs (baptism is definitely a core Christian belief, is it not?) but we would both be Christians otherwise, right? Of course, his differences were more extreme, but then, isn't that the definition of a Christian extremist?
The bottom line is that while he did acknowledge "Science is my religion" (I'm going to cede that point, even though I can find no record of the original citation of the oft-repeated statement. I'll cede based on frequency of assertion) that point has been used to try and progress his words to things he never said such as "I am an atheist or and agnostic" even when he said in his own words that he believed in God and the core beliefs of the Catholic religion. The most core of catholic beliefs is not the belief in hell, but the belief in Christ. Here's the bottom line. McVeigh never said I don't believe in God or Christ. He did say that he believed in God and the core beliefs of the Catholic faith. Drawing conclusions from other quotes doesn't change that fact.
I find it funny that people find enough evidence in a drawn conclusion from a quote that didn't say a word about God to say he was atheist or agnostic, but need more proof than him actually saying he believed in God and the core beliefs of the Catholic faith, the most important of which is the belief in Christ to say he was a Christian extremist. Sounds to me like the bar is being set at different heights, lol.
Frankly, this is an interesting discussion because it shows just how hard it is for people to recognize that what they call their religion might not be the same to everyone. And understand that from my perspective, I wouldn't call McVeigh a Christian, either. But the Christian Identity movement would. And they claim themselves, obviously, as Christians. So do those at the Elohim City compound, another radical Christian group that an ATF informant testified McVeigh was seen in and had ties to.
As to your final two sentences......since when does frequency weigh on accuracy? The two are not related unless you are actually discussing the frequency of something rather than it's existence. But I take issue with the idea that Muslims have the market cornered on crazy. Christians have done plenty of killing, and we're not just talking the Crusades or the Spanish, Papal, Episcopal, Portugese and Roman Inquisitions along with Columbus bringing the inquisitions to the Americas, nor the witch-hunter generals, witch-hunts and witch trials in both Europe and the America.
And we can debate all day about Hitler, who in spite of history re-writes was a Catholic who's hatred for Jews stemmed in part from his views on Christ's death as well from his "soldier of Christ" youth group and from Martin Luther's words. He said in Mein Kampf that by fighting the Jews he was doing the Lord's work. Note that the Church never condemned Hitler and in fact gave Hitler veto power over bishops assigned to Germany. And Milosevic was a Christian, as well.
Some other names of Christian extremist terrorists and groups that have spread terror besides McVeigh?
Eric Rudolph
Michael Griffin
Donald Spitz
John Salvi
Scott Paul Jennings Hill
John Earl (a catholic priest, no less)
Peter James Knight
David McMenemy (might be the dumbest terrorist ever, though)
James Kopp
Scott Roeder
The Army of God
The Birmingham Church Bombers
The Ku Klux Klan (How many people do you think they've killed? They claim to be a christian organization)
Anders Behring Breivik (killed 92 in Oslo)
We can go on and on, but in the end, it boils down to this. Batsh!t crazy knows no race, color, creed, nationality, ethnicity, religion or any other bounds. Does frequency adjust through the years? Yep. But we all have our loons. Christians included.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Good morning Timothy
Submitted by cocodrie on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:14pm.
Even satan believes in Jesus but he ain't christian.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Neither here nor there.
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:12pm.
You have no faith in something you KNOW exists. Satan was Lucifer. An angel who knew Christ. He cannot have faith.
While I find the play on words interesting, it isn't exactly useful to the conversation. We aren't discussing whether McVeigh is our kind of Christian. We're talking about whether he identified as one. I'm sure Milosevic is burning in hell right now. He thought he was a Christian. That is our discussion.
And good morning to you, too. :)
It's actually the end of my day and I'm about to hit the sack.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
You are ignoring motivation
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:23pm.
Were all those on your listed motivated and driven by Christianity? Probably not. Timothy McVeigh may or may not have been a Christian by most peoples standards but he was not motivated by that to do what he did. His crime was not in the name of his religion unlike what we are seeing with Muslims in these times.
Good argument sentry, but.....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:51pm.
Sorry, double post somehow.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Good argument sentry, but.....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:14pm.
the answer in most of those cases is actually......yes. At least in the same way.
Most are pro-life killers, for example. Milosevic was engaging in ethnic cleansing. Hitler was doing the same.
The KKK has frequetly hid behind the bible, much like extremist Muslims. Most attacks on abortion clinics are done in the name of God.
I'd say, yes, most of these acts are motivated by the same misguided convictions.
Dont get me wrong, I don't believe most of these people are devout. I also don't believe most "Muslim extremists" are devout. Frequently, the actual bombers are people who need money for their families, not devout Muslims. The others, I personally believe, fall into that group of sick bastards that use religion for the purpose of justifying violence and hate. Religion is the transmission in the hate machine. The hate itself is the engine. That's my personal opinion, though, on that last part.
Now, as to McVeigh, that depends on who you listen to. He said it was the assault on the Branch Dividian compound that set him off and it is thought by the ATF that the Christian Extremists at Elohim City also helped him along, as well as the Christian Identity movement and the Turner Diaries. But again, it all comes down to what I listed above. I don't think, honestly, that religion is the true motivation for most of these anyways, but is instead an excuse to release hate that is already there.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
"I'd say, yes, most of these
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:31pm.
"I'd say, yes, most of these acts are motivated by the same misguided convictions."
Interesting. You seem to challenge people on knowing whether or not the people we are talking about are "true" Christians, yet in your statement I quoted you are confident that they were motivated by their faith.
Sorry, it doesn't fly.
Also, it seems you have to go deep into history to find your examples of "Christian extremism". I need to go no further than the front page of the newspapers or your current national news.
Apples to Oranges my friend. Simply no comparison.
Here's a list of Islamic attacks just from 1980:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks
NC Cop....reread my whole post there....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:55pm.
My point isn't that they were motivated by faith. It was the opposite. My point is that I think the use of faith to murder is a shield used by them all. I don't think faith motivates any of them, but it is used as an excuse. I also noted that this was my opinion and not a provable fact.
And I didn't go deep into history, other than for Hitler, for specific people. The rest are within the same time-frame you quoted, I believe. I could be off a couple of years. I'm doing most of this off the top of my head from an essay I did for another site years ago and from what I've read about more recently. I think Breivik's attacks happened just last summer. And BTW, those I listed are not all of the attacks over the past 30 or so years. Just what I can remember. Nor are the attacks listed on Wikipedia all that have occurred by way of Muslims (that's what you get for trusting Wikipedia, lol). But, as I noted before, frequency has nothing to do with existence. There have been a ton of attacks on abortion clinics alone by Christian pro-life activists. But it's not relevent. The point is that violent Christian Extremists exist. Violent Muslim extremists also exist.
Half of peoples arguments is that Muslim's don't denounce extremists (which is bullspit from personal experience). But then the natural thing Christians do when you confront us with our own brand of terrorists is to deny them. How is that not just as bad, if not worse?
And while you said apples to oranges, those oranges look awfully red. All instances are of people killing in the name of their faith and their beliefs. That's apples to apples no matter how you spin it. Where are the oranges?
Bottom line, no matter what arguments you use to try and dismiss it, Christian extremists are out there and have killed. That was the point and it has been made. You attempting to qualify it doesn't alter the facts. Nor does it change the original point that bigotry is bigotry no matter how you try and dress it up. Painting all Muslims as terrorists due to a small percentage of the whole is no different than doing so with Christians. And the bigotry that is acceptable here is just as bad and just as hypocritical as the bigotry that this very site and it's members decry on a daily basis coming from the left against us.
It's been an interesting conversation, sir, but I must retire to bed. I'll check back later. Thanks for the debate. :)
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
"Bottom line, no matter what
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:59pm.
"Bottom line, no matter what arguments you use to try and dismiss it, Christian extremists are out there and have killed."
And I have never disagreed with that, however, to compare them to the Muslim extremists (llike you have) is ridiculous, which is my point. Muslim extremists have killed far more people and far more often to say that the two are comparable.
I did not realize there were errors in that Wikipedia article that I referenced. Which ones specifically, please?
"It's been an interesting conversation, sir, but I must retire to bed. I'll check back later. Thanks for the debate. :)"
Fair enough, goodnight!
NC Cop....I really have to get to bed.....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 2:20pm.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything. Ever. I'm not speaking as a fellow commentor. I'm speaking with my journalist hat on. But I think you misunderstood me, anyways. I wasn't saying there were fewer. I was saying that I believe there are far more Muslim terrorist attacks. I don't have the time right now to verify, but off the top of my head, how about any attacks on Israel? Or how about the Beirut marine barracks bombing that killed 241 troops in '83. Before the WTC bombing in the '90s, I can't think of a more recognizable attack, can you? Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source. That wasn't a jab at you.
And I absolutely have compared them, because both have killed people in the name of God (supposedly). How does the frequency or the numbers make it better? When a extremists only kills eight bombing a abortion clinic, that's somehow less evil than killing 28 in a subway? I don't get that logic, and I think that's the root of our disagreement.
And now I rally am going to sleep. :)
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
I'm not sure what kind of
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:37pm.
I'm not sure what kind of evidence you need. I doubt you're going to find a video of him saying that, but there have been enough documentation that it was said. McVeigh was no Christian.
http://archive.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=1189
"Finally, in an interview, Lou Michel told me: No, Tim McVeigh was not a Christian-“though he acknowledged the possibility of a higher power. But, he didn’t accept Jesus Christ as his personal Savior, so far as I know.”
NC COp....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:57pm.
"as far as I know" vs his own quotes from Time magazine. I'll stick with his quotes. I'm pretty sure he knew more about it than someone else.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Nice opinions but...
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:54pm.
I'll give you pro-life killers but Milosevic, Hitler, the KKK....get real.
McVeigh was also influenced by Ruby Ridge and other actions by the government against it's citizens. To say he was some kind of Christian Jihadi is ridiculous. He hated the government and his faith or lack thereof, had nothing to do with it. I don't know where you are getting involvement from whoever they are at whatever city. I've never read that anywhere.
Funny enough, sentry...
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 2:08pm.
An ATF informant testified that McVeigh had been on the Elohim City compound. The government has long felt there were more co-conspirators, but haven't been able to legally pin anyone else down.
And I never said he was a Jihadi. But his relationship to radical Christians groups DID affect his path, and ignoring that is what is ridiculous. Where did I get the idea that it was the Branch Davidian compound that set him off? From his own words. He was known to carry around and sleep with a copy of the Turner Diaries, which have ties to the Christian Identity movement. I think he used all of that as a vehicle for his own hate.
And, ummm......why do I need to get real on Milosevic, Hitler and the KKK? Do you deny that Milosevic was engaged in ethnic cleansing? Or Hitler, for that matter? Read Mein Kampf. And you might want to research the KKK, as well.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
That's some hard hitting evidence right there
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 3:34pm.
I guess I should have used less words to say "link or slink" Timmy. Some kooks think it was not OBL behind 9/11, "but haven't been able to legally pin anyone else down."
I know the Branch Daividian compound set him off but not because he cared about Koresh or his religion. The Turner Diaries are pretty popular among ANTI-GOVERNMENT militia groups. Some of those members may be Christian but I wouldn't make that claim without proof. Hint Hint. All this doesn't change what has been my point and NCCop's too I believe is that there is no comparisson in our current reality between Islam and Christianity. Especially in size and scope.
Ethnic cleansing? Yep. In the name of Christianity? No. Fine....I'll give you the KKK as Christian Soldiers (I don't agree but fine) and we can compare them to current middle east nations, the many islamic militant groups and see if those oranges are still red.
Oh, and NC Cop......
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:25am.
Thanks for your service. Plenty of people remember to say that to soldiers, but I don't think enough people remember to thank their policemen for the same.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Thank you, sir.
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:34am.
It is very much appreciated.
Tat
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:32am.
Good for you, I'm glad you can trust the guy. But take a look at what has happened in countries like England and Denmark where there has been a huge increase in the Muslim population. The culture changes and Muslims force their way of life onto the rest of the populace. Look at what happened in a Pennsylvania court under a Muslim judge, freedom of speech was trumped by not offending Muslims.
I don't consider myself prejudiced, I consider myself educated.
Radical...
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:27am.
I'm not trying to be explosive here, but I've heard people say the same things about blacks.
Just saying......
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Those do not equate
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:19pm.
Know anyone that decided to be black? Anyone?
Come on, Sentry....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 12:58pm.
What does decision have to do with bigotry. Does that mean media bigotry against Christians is OK in your view, since we chose that religion? Are you really equating the gay argument to religion? Seriously?
It is your response that doesn't fit, my friend.
Additionally, he was talking about conditions changing due to the presence of a group of people. It absolutely equates. It is exactly what racists have said about blacks moving into their neighborhoods or the effects of blacks on American culture. Choice had nothing to do with it. You're grasping at straws there.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
WTF are you talking about?
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:32pm.
It has to do with the fact that a decision is made, can be changed and is done by their own free will. Race isn't like that. So if I don't want pedophiles in my neighborhood should I keep the blacks in mind Timmy? If I protest a half way house for drug addicts on my block am I racist Timmy?
You like to throw the word bigotry around alot, you should look it up before using so....liberally.
It still doesn't equate. During the period you are refering to, blacks just wanted to live. They were not led by a religion that teaches them to convert or destroy. A religion they follow of their own free will Timmy. You keep denying reality bud.
My mistake, I thought you were reasonable, Sentry....
Submitted by Timothy H on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 2:44pm.
Now you want to compare pedophilia (a disgusting crime) to religion? I really don't see the point in discussing anything else with you. You obviously have a problem with extremes. But I'll try.
So, are pedophiles a protected class? How about drug addicts? Are Muslims committing a crime just by being Muslim? And have you checked your local registry? Odds are there's a pedophile or six in your neighborhood. If you didn't know that, odds are that you were more worried about the Muslims who might move in than the pedophiles that are already there. Hmmmm.......
You being a Christian is a choice, correct? So, I ask again (you chose not to answer the first time) if you think it's fine for the media and Hollywood to engage in prejudice against Christians? Isn't Bill Maher wonderful? How about Christians being denied jobs on the basis that their religion is a choice? Or homes because the atheists in the neighborhood think they might bomb the abortion clinic and so they cast all the Christian into the Dearborn area to live with the Muslims there because Christianity is a choice and so it's OK to discriminate against them.
Or does that just apply to the groups you feel are unworthy?
And I know perfectly well the definition of bigotry, but I'll provide it for you anyways....
Definition of BIGOTRY
1: the state of mind of a bigot
2: acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot
And just so there's no confusion.....
Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
It might have helped you more if you had looked it up before adding that, huh?
I'm not sure why you think that acting like an ass will win you an argument, but call me by my name all day. My mother called me Timmy. I love her. As to the caustic, internet tough-guy act? Won't work. Time to try the next tactic in the book. I believe it's ad hominem attacks. Let 'em fly!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -Albert Einstein
And for blonde:Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraint. -Timothy H
Poor Timmy
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 4:03pm.
Thank you for educating me on pedophiles I had no idea they really existed...except for the 2 to 3 a day I remind to register before they find themselves back in my lovely facility. I hope your vast knowledge does not come from the opposite experience that mine does.
You going to keep making up arguments to battle against? We are talking about choices genius. Those choices are of one's own free will whether they be what religion you are or what you put in your body. Those choices tell us a lot about a person. People use that information and make judgments. Everyone does it Timmy. You for example think using the word "ad hominem" makes you smart. The rest of us see it was preceded by you calling me an ass and an internet tough-guy so we know that you being "wicked smaht" just isn't so Timmy.
Moving on...I don't jump through your hoops and answer your idiotic questions. Lets focus Timmy. Did I at any point, justify any bigotry? I simply said comparing ones race to their religion does not equate. What do you think when you see a black man dressed just like you? Anything jumping in your head besides he dresses horribly? How about someone you know is a Muslim dressed just like you? There's those judgments we make based on the choices of others going through your head. Some people think good, some think bad.
Glad you got that definition down Timmy. Maybe you'll rethink the "media bigotry" term you've created. Next, keep the definition of "ad hominem" in mind before calling others names.
Timothy
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 5:41pm.
But is there evidence to point to? When does it become bigotry or prejudice versus the truth?
Seriously, Chris?
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 8:51pm.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: But why are they running around the streets going nuts? Don’t they have places they have to be?
Short answer, no. Where else do they HAVE to be in Afghanistan? Working at their high tech manufacturing jobs?
It's the 6th century there fer cryin out loud. They wake up, have sex with a boy, beat their wife and daughters and then go protest or sell heroin.
Well, they could be waiting on the Cave salesman.
Submitted by UpNorth on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:00pm.
Y'know, looking to upgrade, so they're in the market for the two room cave, instead of the communal cave. That way, they'll have some privacy with the
boygoat.Sure were a lot of young looking guys in those photos, wonder why they aren't out chasing the Taliban and Haqqani's around. Nah, I can't even finish that thought, most of them are the Taliban and Haqqani's.
Funny how lefties and Muslims
Submitted by David Kramer on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:10pm.
have all the time in the world to go around raping, murdering, denigrating others. Must be why the leftists and the Muslims have joined forces to destroy the West. How is it that they have all the time to do that? Is it because we are actually funding our own demise? Think about it, why are we not allowed to access our own resources? Why do we fund illegals, Muslims and leftists in our country?
We are funding our own destruction.
They're "facing" sharia law???
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:14pm.
Wake up, Tingles, you idiot. They're DEMANDING sharia law!
It's long past time for us to get the Hell out of Ashcanistan
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:31pm.
I am sick to damn death of seeing our best and bravest dying in droves for these 7th Century throwback illiterate ingrate camel-scrubbers.
Little wonder that so many of our serving soldiers support Ron Paul.
They haven't been allowed to actually win a f'ing war since the defeat of the Japs in 1945, but have instead been used for political cannon fodder by spineless wussies who refuse to let them win, yet always seem to come up with the money to bury them in God-only-knows how many graves, and then have the audacity to stand behind a podium and talk about how much they appreciate their sacrifice.
Bullsh*t - and that includes George W. Bush, too.
If I were among them, I would be supporting Ron Paul, too, and probably resigning my commission, or refusing to re-up when the time came.
Time to bring them home.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Dave, sadly, I agree....
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:56pm.
Zero has sooooo botched it up over there, I cannot even form a list it's so long!! I have several friends that have served there, and ALL have told me if they LET THEM WIN, they could end all of this......but PC Rules the day!!
At this point, if I were in charge, of course.....I would tell Karzai that we are out, not one more bullet, or dollar will be sent to you. Next, ANY terrorist activity that emanates from your sh*thole, will be met by a full wing of B52's, and we will carpet bomb your country until it is a smoking hole!!! GD Ingrates!! Yep, that's how I would do it!
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Sole Sourvivor by Marcus Lutrell
Submitted by Radical1979 on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 10:00pm.
This book shows the consequences of PC rules during a war. That's why it hasn't been made into a movie despite that it would be a fantastic movie. We'll see a propaganda movie about BO killing OBL before we face the truth that four men died because they weren't allowed to fight a war without worrying about getting pilloried for doing just that.
Well, burning symbols to the
Submitted by LighthouseJ on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:33pm.
Well, burning symbols to the US has different meanings to the US depending on the circumstance.
Burning crosses in someones front yard: bad
Burning perfectly good United States flags: form of expression
Burning worn United States flags for disposal: good
etc...
Truth is that the Afghans are tired of the occupation of US forces, and are looking for any opportunity to cause chaos like their fellow arab spring brothers to drive the United States out. They will milk this event for everything they can.
I say that the (peaceful) Quo-ran was desecrated the moment the prisoners allegedly wrote violent rhetoric and attempted to coordinate violence with others using the provided holy texts, but nobody is going to remember those little details... Just the Great Satan once again showed extreme contempt for "peaceful" Islam, fitting into the narrative over there, so they need to go out and kill Americans and others in riots.
Really...
Submitted by NVRAT on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 9:48pm.
Hey Little Chrissy, They were not in in the west. They were in the Uncivilized East You know, kind of like were you live.
Might I offer this reality.
Submitted by Ashrak on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 11:04pm.
We burn bodies to ash.......
and that certainly isn't desecration.
Right? Right.
In Pakistan, thousands of Korans in Sewer- in Street?
Submitted by Smithwinston on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 11:19pm.
A sewer in Pakistan contains thousands of Korans dumped there by Moslems.
Maybe the MSM needs to recall this when they refer to the burning of Korans by Americans in Afghanistan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=69VIER7nzz8
The New York Times wrote about the thousands of discarded Korans found in the streets of Pakistan and a mans efforts to collect them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/29/world/quetta-journal-giving-proper-bur...
Yet, I have not heard mention of this -- Moslems dumping pages of the Koran into an open sewer, pages, and complete Korans found in the streets, the gutters...?
There is only the shameful, dishonorable cacophony of American collaborators in the US Government, on the airwaves, in the print media, ignoring the murder of Americans, and begging in twisted solidarity for these pious maniacs to forgive us dhimmi for the "pain" the burning of their holy book has caused them.
This spectacle is a disgusting sign of the moral decay that has made America a gasping corpse, too delirious on its inflated rhetoric and bizarre alter reality, i.e., liberalism, to know it is as a sleep walker headed towards Gotterdammerung.
Kinda poetic
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 11:24pm.
Watching these nitwits picking pieces of koran out of the sewers.
where do you thin the Korans were made?
Submitted by Tatfreak79 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 8:21am.
I'd love to know. And do you think they were mass produced in China? Do you think the rioters care if so? What does a muslim think of a buncha underpaid, overworked Chinese mass-producing thousands of copies of the Koran? This stuff is ginned (sp?) up by radicals to be sure.
where do you thin the Korans were made?
Submitted by Tatfreak79 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 8:21am.
I'd love to know. And do you think they were mass produced in China? Do you think the rioters care if so? What does a muslim think of a buncha underpaid, overworked Chinese mass-producing thousands of copies of the Koran? This stuff is ginned (sp?) up by radicals to be sure.
It doesnt really matter
Submitted by misterbee241 on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 9:01am.
what our guys did to dispose of these Satanic books, it would have been wrong, and the Muzzies would still be running around killing each other. Well, it saves our guys the trouble of killing 'em.
Paper
Submitted by CJohnson on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:30pm.
Would Allah approve using a koran as toilet paper, instead of fuel?
Yea, right, Chrissy
Submitted by CobraMan on Tue, 02/28/2012 - 1:14pm.
"An American would never burn something to desecrate it."
So, Chrissy, all those people burning their draft cards, images that I saw on TV back during the Vietnam War, were, what, just properly disposing of them?
And what about the Oakland Occupier's Flag Burning protest? Was that an act of respect, or was it a desecration? How about the Flag Burning in Denver last year? Or DC in 2010? Or the various other flag burnings that have occurred in just the last few years right here in America? Were they not acts of desecration?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Disposal of the koran
Submitted by david5300 on Tue, 03/06/2012 - 12:57pm.
Ok , this is how it's done, to be proper and respectful to all the stupid and inbred fanatics in the mideast
1 Do this at night because they will throw a hissy fit even thouh they can not read.
2 Throw a bag of them on the ground and with the pages of one light a fire with your bic.
3 Be sure to use gloves so you dont get anything from handling it, a shovel is purfict.
4 carefuly wrap each book with bacon and spit on it
4 Did a hole and dump in the books, add ample amounts of gasoline, safely toss the lit koran into the center. Wait for the WOOOSH, add more korans untill the task is complete, if the fire is raging now would be a good time to "burn shit" so as not to waste the BTUs.