Saturday Open Thread

By NB Staff | October 08, 2011 | 12:20

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For general discussion and debate about politics, economics, and whatever else tickles your fancy.

Open Thread

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RIP Al Davis

Submitted by shawn. on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 2:20pm.

Dittos

Submitted by Dave. on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 7:50pm.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

Cain verus Perry

Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 2:37pm.

I know some of you will get up in arms against me about this, but I'm not backing down from this.

I can't put my finger on it, I don't know what it is, but I'm getting some serious misgivings about Cain, had been for the last few days.

And this nonsense about him going after Perry as reported in Fox News today, it's not helping.

I trust my instincts, sometimes the answer or reason for them will come out later, but right now, I don't trust Cain.

I'll get this out of the way before someone else says it about me:

"I'm a black-hating, white-loving, slave-loving racist." Or words to that effect.

Something's changed.

-Jon

You're right about the change, Jon.

Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 5:19pm.

I think that Herman Cain is listening to his "professional" campaign strategists instead of following his heart and trusting his gut. He needs to tell them all to shut the hell up and just raise money.

Comrade Bubba

Bubba and Jon

Submitted by ricklail on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 6:07pm.

Something has changed but I am not ready to abandon him. Bubba you might be right. When he was down in the polls he was speaking from the heart. I think they are trying to polish him and he don't need it. Be yourself Herman.

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Just wait........

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 9:25pm.

With Cain up in the polls, CBS having him tied with Romney, Zogby having him 20 points up on Romney, watch for Romney to turn his sites on Cain at some point, but I'm not sure when. October 18 debate is still 10 days away, and several polls still to be released before then.

IF Romney's handlers think Cain is for real now, Romney will start in on him October 18. If they're not sure, they'll wait and continue to treat Perry as their main competition, even though he has fallen. I don't think Romney's team sees Perry's decline as permanent yet, just as I don't think they see Cain's rise as permanent.

(There is a debate Oct 11, on Bloomberg TV, but I'm not sure that audience will be big enough, or the debate far enough out, for Romney to start to target Cain.)

Oh I dont know Jon

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 6:31pm.

This is pretty benign compared to what Perry, and others have said about other candidates. Nothing more the media sensationalizing.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

Jon, just trust your instinct

Submitted by mom_rox on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:28pm.

(I have a similar reservation about Romney. I would have preferred him over McCain, but he's still low on my list so far.)

Boudin, thank you for the Herman Cain link. Twice in one week, Cain has disappointed me. (*sigh*, no candidate is perfect, but Cain is still in my top 3) From the story: "I would not be comfortable being his vice presidential nominee,” he [Cain] said, noting Perry’s support for in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants and his opposition to a border fence. Really? Those are your top 2 issues of what the President and VP have to deal with, so that would be a dealbreaker?

Okay, Cain does not agree with Texas' stance on in-state tuition. I can understand that, but I have not heard one single candidate say what they would do in Perry's shoes. Romney can point to his opposition, but that was for Massachusetts, not Texas - a whole different ball of wax. Perry does not have the authority to deport anyone - we're stuck with these students until a new President takes some action. I want to hear all the candidates' policies on how they would deal with border enforcement AND dealing with those already in the country.

As for the border fence, Cain is either demagoguing the issue or is clueless about Perry's position. (neither option reflects well on Cain.) Perry has said that wants a fence in strategic locations, not that he wants no fence at all. Bachmann has said that she wants a fence from the Gulf to the Pacific. okay, fine - how much will it cost and when will it be completed? (from my construction experience, it will always take longer and cost more than you predict - and that was in the private sector, not in government)

I would be interested in hearing Perry's veiws on

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:46pm.

Controlling the Boarder. Fact is, he hasnt articulated anything that sounds effective to me. I even give him a pass on the in-state tuition for Texas illegal HS Grads. But he as far as I can tell, Perry hasnt tried to deal with the issue with any effectiveness at all, like say Jan Brewer has. Feel free to correct me.

Also Perry has had his own little bitter pills to dish out to other candidates, it's not like he is benevolent. Maybe Cain should suppress his true feelings of other candidates. But if you know Cain, he never has.

I am obviously a true Cain fan, and have been for years. Perry has always seemed a little flaky to me. I even wrote my Gov a critical note for endorsing Perry so early.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

Dealing with illegals

Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 9:40pm.

you may or may not have seen this, but for all the stuff regarding illegals that people accuse Perry of trying to do, Gov Moonbeam Brown of California has done exactly that.

Gov Brown signs California Dream Act

-Jon

Yep,

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 10:33pm.

Cali must be so proud

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

Well, Boudin---

Submitted by matthewdean on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 12:42am.

I'm sure the liberals, Democrats, and illegals here in CA are pleased as punch.

The fools should be punched.

Out.

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

Me too

Submitted by mom_rox on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 11:30pm.

I haven't heard anyone's detailed plan on border enforcement AND how to deal with those already here. I've also mentioned previously how I wish Perry were more like Brewer. I like Cain more when he sounds like a problem solver, rather than when he sounds like a politician.

That is very benign.

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 9:27pm.

He simply pointed to an issue that is a fairly big one. I agree that it's more media sensationalism.

I have problems with all the

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 2:14am.

I have problems with all the candidates. But Cain seems like the best. But you know being in Texas we don't vote til its almost over. I will look at the survivors around February.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark

A couple of items from the interwebs.

Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 3:14pm.

First, a sign from one of the clowns in one of the "occupy" protests.

Next, another example of the idiocy that is Obama.

Looking at these, I think that, as a country, we're doomed.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

UpNorth---

Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 7:44pm.

based on the content of both links, while we may well be doomed, we will at least be entertained on the way to perdition by the incredible stupidity manifested by both liberals and Democratic politicians.

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

A younger patient who I am treating for opiate addiction...

Submitted by drsamherman on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 7:51pm.

....did not want treatment with another medication because "I don't like drugs". So the Oxycontin, Percocet and Dilaudid were not drugs? Oh are we in deep trouble.

True dat, MD

Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 10:24pm.

One cannot deny the logic of the turd who doesn't think he needs oil, because he rides the bus. And, I'm quite sure it's one of the short buses.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

has anyone fielded Michelle's opinion on this appointment?

Submitted by kata on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:02pm.

Give Peas a Chance. ☑ ABØ in 2012

kata

Submitted by Radical1979 on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:04pm.

Michelle knows she only has to worry if Ricky Martin was appointed.

Proud member of the 53%!

Cain / Gingrich speeches

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 3:24pm.

......at the Value Voters Summit.

Starting at the 1:34 mark. Great speeches by both.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Christie-Palin-Announce-Theyre-Out/10737424...

Newt's discussion of the courts is excellent. Highly recommended!

Let's help the liberal Bolshevik's out.

Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 5:29pm.

I heard on Fox that the Wall Street whiners who are camping out in the park are having trouble because they can't come up with a name like "Tea Party" to capture the essence of their movement.

I'd like to submit my suggestions for a name for this bunch babies.

Because of their propensity for alfresco potty training, I'm going with (in order of preference):

1. The Tee Party

2. The Tee Tee Party

3. The Piddle Party

4. The Wee Wee Party

5. The Whiz Kids

... and since Nancy Pee-losi seems to have made herself the spiritual head of this pack of piss ants, that kind of makes her truly the Piss Head, right?

Comrade Bubba

The No 2 party

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:17pm.

Sounds good

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

What the???????

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 7:37pm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

We are dumbarses!
We are dumbarses!

Yaaay us!
Yaaay us!

How on earth

Submitted by Radical1979 on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:12pm.

How on earth

Do these people, do these people

think anything will ever get done? think anything will ever get done?

Amazingly, there are tons of "adults" there. Not just stupid college students.
Wow.

Proud member of the 53%!

The live feed

Submitted by kata on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:15pm.

could be marketed as a new reality television program. Or would that be too capitalistic?

Give Peas a Chance. ☑ ABØ in 2012

If that dont say brain dead

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:24pm.

I dont know what does. I wish I was there, I would be making sooo much fun of those morons, with my lawful weapon of choice under my right arm

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

I have noticed that these pathetic protest have been getting

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:31pm.

Tons of press, even though they are a fraction of the size of the Tea Party protest. If the Tea Party has an event to ridicule and embarrass these morons, I will be there!

That little Protest in DC today had what, 98 folks there? Not including dimwit Reps

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

well Chavez thinks they are "teh win".

Submitted by kata on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 8:48pm.

Who can argue with that kind of starpower.

Give Peas a Chance. ☑ ABØ in 2012

Cain wins another straw poll

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 9:51pm.

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/10/08/cain-crushes-field-in-mi...

Just another John McCain

Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 10:55pm.

I think Cain is going to end up like another John McCain.

I already said I don't trust him, but if this is how it's turning out, he'll end up being like McCain and then he won't be taken seriously especially since people will apparently have their fill of another "black man" in the potus seat. I'm not talking about the conservatives or whatever, I'm talking about everyone else.

Regardless of what one might think about Cain, people are not going to be too interested in voting in another black man into the office of the president because they got screwed over the first time. If nothing else, Soetoro screwed that up for any future black people, even if he's only a smidge "black" despite being half white and mostly arabian with that smidge black he has left over.

-Jon

I dont know what to say Jon,

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 11:29pm.

Herman Cain has had a radio show for years, he stopped it to pursue the Presidency. Because thousands of us e-mailed him often to do so. There has never been a phony bone in his body. He is a straight shooter, and I for one echo his reluctance for a Perry Presidency.

But to think that Obama should be able to paint a whole race with incompetency, I am at a loss. As I dont see the color, I listen. Just like when Perry speaks.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

High opinion you have of Americans there Jon.

Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:33pm.

Do you really think the American people are too stupid to look beyond color? The failure of one black man leads Americans to view all black men disparagingly?

Looking beyond color?

Submitted by jon_torlin on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 11:52pm.

Well, you ask "do I think American people are too stupid to look beyond color," I submit the 2008 election in response. I also submit the inauguration which I never really heard much condemned about it even though it was racially tinged(such as the poem). I even submit how the MSM brought that out many many times.

Given that there wasn't much said to temper all that, to bring it down, yeah, the answer is that I'm afraid the American people might be too stupid to look beyond color. Hell, people keep trying to identify him as African American as his main race even though it's his white side that's the largest part of him, the second is the African Arabian and then a tiny part of him being Black.

I bet that some of us may have heard similar sentiments about not wanting to vote for another black guy discussed among the gossip circles.

Just calling it how I see it.

-Jon

Whatever.

Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 10/10/2011 - 5:11pm.

Stupid tea party people wastin' their time. Shoulda just consulted with Jon. American people are too stupid to really try to convince of anything really.

Marco Rubio

Submitted by GregE on Sat, 10/08/2011 - 10:07pm.

I think any Marco Rubio for VP calls need to stop ASAP. If it is true that his parents were not citizens at the time of his birth, then he cannot be President, and cannot be in line for the Presidency. He is a naturalized citizen, not natural-born. That's unfortunate for the future because I think he is one of several up and coming conservatives, but talk of the very highest office should be quelled and not let fester for the next X number of years.

He has said he will not accept a VP nomination anyway, but he could give a reason which would create quite a stir....................that being, he could simply say, truthfully, that his father was not a citizen of the US when he was born here, so he is not a natural-born citizen as required by the US Constitution. If you don't see what can of worms that could open right now, think about it. :-)

Is there a law/rule that

Submitted by stratman on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 1:54pm.

Is there a law/rule that states the VP must be capable of becoming President? If not, Rubio may still be on the ticket as VP but would be passed over to the next in succession (Speaker of the House) if the President was unable to perform their duties.

Not everyone in the line of succession has been able to assume the Presidency in history. Besides, I think your scenario is exactly the kind of discussion we need in the country - what constitutes citizenship (eg anchor babies) and an explicit definition of who may be president.

Good point

Submitted by GregE on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 9:23pm.

I had not thought of the VP possibly being passed over due to the Constitutional citizenship laws. Something more to think find out about. That would create for quite an interesting situation, that being, if everyone knew the VP nominee could not be president, they may treat the Speaker of the House with the same scrutiny normally going to the VP. And you are correct on others having been in the line of succession themselves not being eligible. A most well-known was Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. I have to think that VP may be the one position in the line that would be treated differently, but I don't know.

When I think of that, I think of a mess. Especially if there is a Democrat Speaker of the House. It would be interesting how the nation would look at a Republican President who's VP (who is always of the same party) could not succeed, and knowing that a Nancy Pelosi could be next in line to the Presidency.

I believe that also creates a very dangerous situation for a President, when an absolute nutcase realizes that the President being knocked off could give the Presidency to the other political party, even if that party had just lost the Presidency by an historically large margin.

Good point, GregE, though I

Submitted by stratman on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 9:47pm.

Good point, GregE, though I could have done without the Pelosi as Prez example. Barf. Another thing, it seems it's the Left that attempt/kill our presidents.

All the more reason to settle the citizenship questions.

Here's the answer

Submitted by GregE on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 9:49pm.

Last line of the 12th Amendment settles it. Rubio could not be a VP:

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

Sorry big guy. But the birtherism has to stop.

Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:27pm.

Marco Rubio is eligible to be president.

There are 2 routes to citizenship.

1. You are born into it.

2. You acquire it by paperworking it, naturalization.

Marco Rubio was born into citizenship. He was never naturalized. He never submitted papers, He never took an oath. The constitution is 5000 words. It was written in English. Plain English. And nothing in there refutes the idea that a man born of two people on American soil in the process of gaining naturalization is nothing but an American citizen born into citizenship.

And if he was not born into citizenship, then when was he ever naturalized?

The Good News: Rubio's Eligible - American Thinker

Mark Levin - Marco Rubio Was Born In Miami Florida He Is A Natural Born United States Citizen

Please let it rest.