Mark Shields: If We Waited for ‘Great Social Improvements’ From CEOs We’d ‘Still Have Child Labor at 8 Cents an Hour’
In the view of the perilously liberal syndicated columnist Mark Shields, nothing good ever comes from corporate America.
On PBS's "Inside Washington" Friday, Shields told his fellow panelists, "If one waited for all the great social improvements of this country to come from CEOs, we would still have child labor at 8 cents an hour working at mills and looms and lathes" (video follows with transcript and commentary):
MARK SHIELDS, PBS: But if one waited for all the great social improvements of this country to come from CEOs, we would still have child labor at 8 cents an hour working at mills and looms and lathes. So, you know, they have hardly been on the vanguard of social change.
CEOs have hardly been on the vanguard of social change? Really?
Just this year the world watched as citizens in Arab nations revolted against their tyrannical leaders aided by the social networks of Facebook and Twitter. The last time I looked, both companies had CEOs responsible for the creation of their product as well as the distribution.
The greatest inventions impacting the most "social change" in this nation have almost always come from the private sector.
As such, to make a statement on national television that CEOs have hardly been on the vanguard of social change is the height of stupidity, dishonesty, or both.
Not to be outdone, the Washington Post’s Colby King joined in on the CEO-bashing bandwagon moments later:
COLBY KING, WASHINGTON POST: The CEOs are essentially hired guns anyway. They don’t, most of them don’t own the companies that they run. They work for a board of directors. The board of directors have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders, and they will get rid of the CEO if the companies don’t make money, pure and simple.
In reality, most CEOs do own the organizations they manage for most companies aren't publicly traded and the CEO is typically one of the top shareholders if not the only one.
As for public companies, the CEO's managing those typically have most of their income tied to either profits or stock performance. This means there's a direct correlation between the financial fortunes of such companies and the CEOs that lead them.
This upsets union-loving liberals like King and Shields who think there's something inherently wrong with performance-based pay. They'd much rather everyone make the same wage regardless of output.
Just imagine the lack of positive social change in this country if they got their way.
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Comments
Now thanks to government we
Submitted by ant on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 11:49am.
Now thanks to government we have more adults on funemployment and foreign nationals getting jobs. Anyone else hear about Obama's Justice Dept. raiding and shutting down Gibson Guitar Company over a law in India?
This is not right!
Submitted by Red Jeep on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:41pm.
"The Holder Justice Department raided Gibson Guitar facilities in Nashville and Memphis this week because the company is using unfinished wood from India and this violates Indian law… Not American law.
Unreal.
The Gibson Guitar CEO responded to the unjust raids today:
Henry Juszkiewicz, Chairman and CEO of Gibson Guitar Corp., has responded to the August 24 raid of Gibson facilities in Nashville and Memphis by the Federal Government. In a press release, Juszkiewicz said: “Gibson is innocent and will fight to protect its rights. Gibson has complied with foreign laws and believes it is innocent of ANY wrong doing. We will fight aggressively to prove our innocence.”
The raids forced Gibson to cease manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day while armed agents executed the search warrants. “Agents seized wood that was Forest Stewardship Council controlled,” Juszkiewicz said. “Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC-certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.”
Juszkiewicz believes that the Justice Department is bullying Gibson without filing charges.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10e_1314317782
I read about this yesterday,
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 2:25pm.
I read about this yesterday, and I immediatly wanted to post it somewhere on NB - for all of my musician and music fan buddies here - but I didn't see any thread that I could make it fit into. But I did copy the article, and I emailed it to a couple of my professional musician friends, just in case they didn't see it. I should probably tell my blues-man Japanese chiropractor friend about this, in case he takes one of his vintage guitars somewhere and gets arrested by the 'guitar police'.........
I've had a number of Gibsons in my life - they were my favorite sound for playing thick, biting rhythm guitar.
Actually, it made me think of that stupid advertisement during the Super Bowl of the 'Green Police', sung to the tune of the 'Dream Police' by the legendary Cheap Trick - and I think that they're guitar player is some kind of a conservative............
I owned a '93 Gibson Les Paul
Submitted by ant on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 11:16pm.
I owned a '93 Gibson Les Paul that just got better with age and I loved it's bratty, audacious tone. Had to sell it when times got tough. Thanks Kennedy, Dodd, Fwank, Bush, Obama, Pelosi! Thanks illegal immigration doing the construction jobs I, unbeknownst to me, didn't want to do.
Recent comment I read on the subject; "First they came for the Gibsons, and I owned a cheap Ibanez.. so I didn't say anything...".
Update: Gibson rival uses same wood. Obama donor
Submitted by Red Jeep on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 8:55am.
"Report: Gibson Competitor is Dem Donor; Uses Same Wood, Experienced No Federal Raids"
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2011/08/27/report-gibson-comp...
Thanks Red Jeep
Submitted by ant on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:59am.
Have you seen Iowahawks take on "Operation Fast and..Fretless"?
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/08/new-scandal-at-doj-as-illeg...
thanx Ant
Submitted by Red Jeep on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:17am.
Google says you link is broken but I found the story.
Let's try this link: http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/08/new-scandal-at-doj-as-illeg...
Hey Mark,
Submitted by Comrade Jim on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 11:55am.
Move to North Korea. It is a CEO-Free Zone. You'll love it. And take Colby with you.
Twins
Submitted by ferv888 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:00pm.
Sheild's and King's other triplet is in the White House, and look at what that CEO has done for the country!!!!!
FERV888
government programs for
Submitted by jkwtrading on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:20pm.
government programs for blacks have them working for zero because they are unemployed..8 cents for them is better than zero.
It Is the Progressive Way:
Submitted by Comrade Jim on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:22pm.
It is better keep many people idle and on welfare rather than employed at a low wages. Workers might get the wrong idea, that they can work harder and smarter and become wealthy enough to want lower taxes, which are the life's blood of The Progressives, the true and proper idle class.
How do you explain Henry Ford, Mark?
Submitted by Red Jeep on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:28pm.
Ford paid his worker higher than prevailing wages to retain them, and so the employees could afford to buy the product they were making.
He's got it backwards, it's
Submitted by rbosque on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:34pm.
He's got it backwards, it's private industry that leads the charge in innovation, technology and tends to change the direction of what constitutes our popular culture. It's a robust Capitalist system that provide product differentiation, choice and modern conveniences. It's a free market and a Capitalist structure that has allowed us to progress from 8 cent child wages from the late 1800's. Gov't does no such thing, it only has the power of confiscation.
"If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread". – Thomas Jefferson
But only in America...
Submitted by Rackie on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:48pm.
could he get paid well for "being stuck on stupid".
and what does that say about America? About the Media?
Is it really good or really bad?
anyway, must be happy hour somewhere
Henry Ford
Submitted by wingnut55 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:04pm.
Mark, the Ford Motor Company was owned for many years by the Ford family. Henry was the CEO and it was his idea to pay his employees $5 an hour. It wasn't mandated by the Government or any other entity. It was because Henry Ford wanted to sell cars. To use a more current example look and Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, did they improve the American life through Government help? If we waited for the Government to invent computers we may not have them today. Will you ever learn from history? You seem to have blinders on and can't look back and see how this country was made great. FDR didn't make it great, he tried to destroy the banking industry. He imprisoned thousands of Americans in Interment Camps just because they had a Japanese ancestry. Again not a glorious example of our past. What got this country out of the "Great Depression" was WWII and nothing else. The Ford Motor Company was making bombers at almost one an hour. GM was making tanks. Chrysler was making Jeeps and other military vehicles. All to help the war effort. These were not being made just for the USA, but, also for Great Britain, Russia, Canada. When the Government gets out of the way the American people can take care of themselves.
Let's face it, Mark Shields
Submitted by fitzfong on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:06pm.
Let's face it, Mark Shields is employing this "argument" as a defensive misdirection. While acting as if he's demonizing faceless CEOs on behalf of the common man, he's using the average American employee (and unemployed American) as a prop...a stool on which to stand to argue for the relevance of his own job. Mark Shields' job as a taxpayer-subsidized propagandist would be nonexistent if these "evil" CEOs...or, more accurately, the market...had proper say in the matter. It's the forced preservation of his job and the jobs of other unproductive, market irrelevant PBS/NPR slobs that crowds out the capital necessary to fund countless more productive, more necessary private sector jobs that would start to turn this economy around. Instead of creating the jobs necessary to build the economy back up, we are forced to spend our money to allow parasites like Mark Shields, David Brooks and Bill Moyers to continue to get paid to lobby us to continue to pay them infinitely more than they'd ever be paid in the free market. How perverse is that? DEFUND NPR. DEFUND PBS.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -George Best
If we wait for debt reduction
Submitted by GregE on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:11pm.
If we wait for debt reduction to come from liberals, we'll have it reduced by the laws of physics, not by our own decisions on how to do it.
As you run toward a cliff, the decision is still yours whether you stop and/or turn around. Once you run off the cliff, you can make all the decisions you want, none of which will amount to crap. The laws of physics will not be overcome.
Has Shields ever held a real job? Does he know #*@*& about it?
Submitted by drsamherman on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:12pm.
All of the armchair CEOs and half-wit talking heads like Shields have verbal dysentery about how bad corporate CEOs are. Did he forget PBS is organized as a corporation with a CEO?
I would bet that he has zero business experience and never had to meet a payroll or a large business loan payment with sufficient cash flow in his useless, oxygen-wasting life. Probably another liberal lump of manure who thinks business enterprises can just print money and send out checks.
You can bet that he would be screaming to high heaven and calling for pitchforks and torches in the streets if PBS or his column syndicate missed their payroll. He has no idea how they have to make the money, so to him it is just like magic.
that must by why
Submitted by ohio granny on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:26pm.
CEO's try to impoverish their workers so they cannot buy anything but the bare minimum to survive. That is surely the way to grow their customer base. And that explains why Shields and his buddies at the newworks and cable companies work for peanuts.
What an ignorant *ss trying to pass himself off as someone smart. Not working.
And forget about all of those pesky shareholders....
Submitted by drsamherman on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 10:50pm.
...who own shares directly, or through mutual funds or other investments, and demand the corporation be maintained fiscally viable and provide a return as dividends or stock value growth.
Shields is another economically illiterate talking head. He would screaming bloody murder if his investments were paying zero dividends or interest (as appropriate to the investment type). Of course, he is too damned rectoctranially inverted to realize that real investors like grandparents (like you and me - we'll have to exchange stories some day about the grandkids), moms, dads and kids with college funds and retirees and public employee pension funds RELY on the ability of corporate management to turn a profit and provide income and growth.
I don't mean to politicize medicine, but I AM beginning to see why some of our fellow NB'ers consider liberalism to be a mental disorder. Problem is I can't figure out which Axis it belongs to on DSM.
Shields
Submitted by DVG93 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 1:28pm.
Actually, I agree with him on this. Yes Ford initially paid well, but later changed his view on that. I have worked for many different companies. Every single one of them at some point in time altered how I was paid. There was no time it came out for my benefit.
I do not believe in Marxism. It is a failed ideology. Capitalism is superior, but human nature is often a cruel thing. Power corrupts etc. With marxism, you're stuck on f^%$ced. With capitalism, you have a fighting chance.
Our elites on both sides of the aisle have created a bloated government and centralized the economy with large banks and corporations. This consolidation has not been beneficial to regular people. Yes half the country pays no taxes. This is because the wealth has not been evenly distributed because the centralization of every facet of our lives precludes it.
No I am not calling for taxing the wealthy out of existence or anything remotely like it. I am saying shipping jobs out of the country is not right.
How about this for a solution. Companies pay their shareholders based on profits. I suggest that any wealth produced overseas not be included in shareholder dividends to US citizens.
In order to prevent greedy ceo's and boards of directors from abusing the power they wield, I believe the pay ceo's and BOD's receive be directly tied to shareholder dividends.
People pi$$ on FDR and the New Deal. Fine go ahead. You who do that are clueless about history. FDR was the relief valve of what would have been a marxist or facist overthrow of the US government.
Huey Long was in the wings. What kind of world would it have been had he been president? Kiss the economic system we have today goodbye. Hitler and Tojo win WW2.
We have a real problem right now. Everyone knows the real unemployment rate in this country is over 20%. It may be approaching 30%. If you don't think trouble is brewing, then you better have an escape plan. Doodoo is going to hit the fan.
There is no forward thinking in the republican party. There is in the democrat party, but's all the wrong kind. Platitudes are becoming increasingly ineffective.
So republicans, listen up. You are going to have control over the government in 2013. Screw this up this time, and you will never recover. The democrats do not believe in democracy. There is a large segment of the population looking not for a handout, but a handup. At some point in time, they will take whatever hand is offered them. You better make sure it's yours.
Oh good gawd.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 4:25pm.
Thx for the insight. Now can we just get along, sit around the campfire and sing "kumbaya".
"There is no forward thinking in the republican party. There is in the democrat party..."
Have you thought about checking out a lib site? I'm sure someone will listen to you.
Go away.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Can you actually read?
Submitted by DVG93 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 6:09pm.
If you think what I said in any way endorses the democratic party you're clueless.
What I said was there is a problem. It needs to be addressed. History showed what could have happenned once and could still happen if something positive isn't done to level the playing field.
The Fair Tax is an idea that could absolutely help. But noooooooooooo.
The wealthy, the government lobyists, and our crooked politicians won't touch it.
If something is not done to allow people to participate in the American dream, then the democrats WILL win. Only thing is, they will not really be democrats, they will be communists.
If you're one of these fat cats that are so isolated from what over 50% of the American population are enduring right now, you are part of the problem.
You attitude of let them eat cake will cost us all.
DVG
Submitted by Hog_Flambe on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 1:13am.
The more you type, the more you reveal your ignorance of what passes for Constititional governance... aka the areas in the first article.
The American Dream is a fiction. Ever heard of a chicken in every pot? Norman's 4 freedoms, one of which was inspired by FDR, freedom from want.
Hope n change?
Keep dreaming....
Some Little Feat...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8V1olWt8I0
King for a Day
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 6:14pm.
"How about this for a solution. Companies pay their shareholders based on profits. I suggest that any wealth produced overseas not be included in shareholder dividends to US citizens."
Surely you can't be serious. So if Apple Corp sells an iPhone anywhere outside the United States, they somehow can't return any of the profit to United States citizens who own a piece of Apple?
You have no clue about anything related to capitalism or freedom.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Child Labor
Submitted by Rikki_Doxx on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 6:54pm.
I wonder if Shields and company realize that corporations also donate to NPR and PBS. Those evil corporations pay his salary as do taxpayers. A good place to go to read about child labor in the US is :http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_history.html
It was a thought
Submitted by DVG93 on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 7:07pm.
It was merely a thought as to how to lure companies into manufacturing in the US. OK maybe not such a bright idea.
But something has to be done to financialy enfranchise the over 50% of the country right now that are in deep crap.
To say that people aren't applying for jobs is flat out bs. Been there done that. Show up an hour and a half early and see a line around the building.
It's ugly out there.
Something Has to be Done!
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:47am.
"Something has to be done!"
When you, or anybody for that matter, asks to be hired for a job, what do you think the prime motivator is for the company doing the hiring? I'm not talking about your next door neighbor hiring you because they want their lawn mowed. I'm talking about a company that has employees.
If you started to think of things from a political perspective of freedom instead of your current perspective of entitlement and communism you would have a better chance to get a job. Potential employers can pick up on that stuff.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Entitlement?
Submitted by DVG93 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:15pm.
Look, I ain't living on the government's dime. I worked two jobs in HS paid my way through college ( Working 40hrs wk and carrying 18 credits at times. ) Bought my own car, gas, ins etc. I have saved and invested. I aint asking for squat.
But if y'all think that it's easy when there are thousands of people applying for a handfull of positions is a good situation, you are chumps.
I've gone door to door selling in neighborhoods where the real estate lady is grabbing onto my arm for dear life. ( We're white in the hood. ) These are neighborhoods where my police relatives tell me they won't go in with less than 3 squad cars. I been on streets where there was an active murder and on those where days later another. That's not counting the rest of the year.
I've seen families driving off with what they have and abandoning their homes as I was approaching them. I've been to homes that the resident had no power. Try that in Florida some summer.
These are not isolated cases. I've sold to people that bought a house for $200k less than it was originally.
Constitutional government? Obama treads over our rights daily. The courts take our property so some rich MF'r can make money and therefore pay off the slimebag politco that allowed it.
I'm going to guess that none of you support the Tea Party. Y'all have your loot and don't give a rat's a$$ about anything else.
Our system of government was designed knowing that people are capable of foul deeds. That is the problem with socialism/communism/facism. You are stuck on screwed. We are growing into a situation that I would compare to national socialism. The ceo can run his company, but at the pleasure of the government.
I am not here to bash ceo's. Ben Franklin said we have a republic if we can keep it. He understood tyranny of government. He also understood tyranny of mobs.
What our forefathers never had to contend with was tyranny of multinational corporations. Before you throw a hissy, I am not accusing all.
Lastly, if you consider the American Dream a fiction, you are not a real American.
You're no better than a mindless zombie playing along.
My role model was not some jock. It was Andrew Carnegie. He worked his tail off and invested. I also have a great deal of respect for Teddy Roosevelt. He understood both sides of the labor capital issue. That's the crux of the issue here. I am a capitalist. I have maintained without fair employment for three years. ( I had one company where I was averaging $800 a week, but they kept losing my sales and were paying me $240. Think I wasn't steamed? ) Capital has needs, but so does labor.
My point has been and still is if the needs of the people are dismissed out of hand, then the entire system will be susceptble to the likes of another Obama. Only this time he may bear a closer similarity to Hitler when all is said and done.
If you don't think it can happen, you are fools. The attempt is underway right now. Look at George Soros. Study Francois Genoud and the link between banking ( particular attention to Swiss ) and the Nazis.
Free men in this country are an endangered species. Our government was designed to alleviate the risks of immoral men. It is time to consider ways to alleviate the harm from immoral corporations.
Are you for or against freedom?
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:42pm.
If I own a company, and sell a product or service overseas, should I be able to profit from that transaction? Or would you limit that right to only products and services sold within the boundaries of the United States?
(And you can hit the Reply button instead of making a new post. It's easier to keep track of things that way!)
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
For or agin
Submitted by DVG93 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 2:22pm.
I'm decidedly for. Maybe some solutions were ill advised. It was an adlibbed thought that was not thought through. I still like the Fair tax. It just might be the easiest and fastest way to accomplish what is needed. People need the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. Businesses need a proper envionment in which to succeed. They are not mutually exclusive.
I always believed that perhaps, perhaps, America might need to make some adjustments in order to allow the rest of the world to modernizize. What is going on is America is allowing our economy to be disassembled and shipped overseas and gaining nothing.
We are squandering our monetary, scientific, manufacturing and labor capital without accomplishing the goal of raising the world higher. All we are doing is bringing America to it's knees.
Anyway, back to your original question. Flawed as it may be, my thought was not the selling of a product of any given company, but the manufacture and selling of a product by a company. My purpose was to provide a means to incentivize a company to manufacture within the US and penalize them for not doing so.
Which brings me back to the Fair Tax. It provides a company incentive to manufacture within the US. As a labor/capitalist, it allows me to control my taxation and allows me to more easily participate in the equity markets. ( Lord I hate keeping track of transactions. )
A more poor family I am sure would benefit from the tax reimbursements if they were ambitious and disciplined enough to do so. It really cuts down on the black market. It reduces government expenditures on bureaucrats.
Anyway, one should recoqnize not all ceo's are benign. I had an uncle lose his entire retirement ( outside his own investments ) because upper management paid themselves drew down the resources of the corporation and subsequently filed for bankruptcy.
In some instances, venture capital is more of a moneymaking scheme than an equity instrument. It is one that leaves shareholders and employees hanging out to dry.
As I said, I am not here to bash ceo's. I do think there is at least some hint of truth to what Shields says, but maybe not in the way he thinks.
There has been a problem since the 80's when I read an article in the WSJ about the vanishing middle class. The solution need not be some zero sum game. As a former western NY'r, I like the late Jack Kemp's idea of growing the pie.
The Tea Part is a grass roots response to the lack of addressing the needs of those Americans that want to work and prosper. Is anybody listening?
~Incentive to manufacture
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 4:53pm.
Penalizing companies for manufacturing outside the country sounds far too ham-fisted. All we have to do is get rid of labor unions and eliminate business taxes. The "pie" will take off like Jack's Beanstalk.
+1 for the Fair Tax!
Submitted by redmike on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 8:19pm.
+1 for the Fair Tax!
Flatulent wind Shields
Submitted by Jack Bauer on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:46pm.
If We Waited for ‘Great Social Improvements’ From CEOs We’d ‘Still Have Child Labor at 8 Cents an Hour
Ignorant TWADDLE.
Many of the great social/industrial reforms were actually started and led by the 19th Century equivalent of "CEOs," mosty Christians and Christian influenced.
Just like the anti-slavery movement was started by Christians. The impetus came not from "government" but from individuals who influenced politicians to change laws.
Google "Lord Lever" and " Cadbury" you dimwit Shields.
I am NOT claiming that there were not some horrible bastards in industry -- but Shields just cannot see past his IGNORANT big government fetish.
To get you started on your education Shields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
All of the above Mr Obama? --- How about ALL OF THE BELOW, instead.
Is there a problem?
Submitted by DVG93 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 4:41pm.
From Bloomberg Businessweek
A smaller share of men have jobs today than at any time since World War II
The portion of men holding a job—any job, full- or part-time—fell to 63.5 percent in July—hovering stubbornly near the low point of 63.3 percent it reached in December 2009. These are the lowest numbers in statistics going back to 1948.
Men who do have jobs are getting paid less. After accounting for inflation, median wages for men between 30 and 50 dropped 27 percent—to $33,000 a year— from 1969 to 2009, according to an analysis by Michael Greenstone, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economics professor who was chief economist for Obama's Council of Economic Advisers. "That takes men and puts them back at their earnings capacity of the 1950s," Greenstone says. "That has staggering implications."
Just the facts.
What's your take?
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sun, 08/28/2011 - 4:52pm.
Where do you stand, DVG93? What's different in America between 1945 and 2011 that caused this to happen? I've read every single one of your posts in this thread and all I come away with is....."Something is wrong and we need to fix it!".
What's wrong, and how do we fix it?
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
My take
Submitted by DVG93 on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 10:40am.
My take starts with the premise of Shield's arguement. I stand by my take. CEO's are not always the benign benevolent beings they are portrayed as.
They are people and will really not differ from the rest of the populaton.
Yes the world has changed since 1945, but people haven't. Yes there are more cultures we interact with, but people still want an opportunity.
I cannot offer specific solutions. I am not God. But the first step in repairing a problem is identifying there is one. We have to consider fair ways to conduct the nation's economy.
Our system of revenue is corrupt. While structural changes may be necessary, the easily most repairable facet of our economy is the tax system. The Fair Tax is such a solution.
There are things I would do if I could wave my hand and make it so. Drill baby drill comes to mind. Congress no longer has a seperate retirement account from the rest of the population. Same with their health care. Those are not structural changes, but would be instrumental in helping the economy and restoring at least a little integrity back into politics.
Instead of providing free money to the unemployed, have them spend 10 hours a week doing some kind of work or public service and also spend 10 hours a week obtaining additional education, job skill, or training. Instead of giving free money to the unemployed, pay employers to hire them for a 10 week apprenticeship period. Some of this group may turn out to be desireable to that employer. At least these people will be active, engaged in society and will obtain some experience with which they may use to their advantage down the road.
Disagree, agree take it or leave it.
Employers should not be burdened by a conjestive, overbearing government.
Employees should expect to be treated fairly.
Looking forward, we may not have specific solutions or agreements on what needs to be done, but we should be able to agree on a framework for the process of transformation.
Thanks for the reply, DVG93.
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 2:01pm.
You made some very good points. I think the fair tax is flawed because it still creates a huge exempt class that can then be manipulated by our politicians. But all in all your points are good and do make up for some of your anti free enterprise points you made earlier in this thread.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Free enterprise
Submitted by DVG93 on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 9:58am.
Make no mistake. I absolutely love free enterprise. As a kid in a small town, I had no way to obtain money. My parents didn't have a lot and didn't give me any.
So I used a comic book ad to send away for Christmas cards to sell. I went to every door in town for three summers selling Christmas cards. I was I think 11 to start. No help from anybody. Mom and dad were clueless I was even doing it.
I took the money and bought a brand new Western Flyer bike. Which I used for my paper route.
I think where I differ from my peers is how I view money. I view money as a tool.
Most people view it as an end in itself. It's part of the human condition that this partion exists.
The Fair tax may not be perfect, but is it better than what we have now?
It may all be moot anyway, as today's world has a resemblance to the world Barbara Tuchman wrote of in " The Guns of August". A big difference is right now we have a traitor in the White House. Hopefully we can reach Nov 2012 before the doo hits the fan.
Barbara Tuchman
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:42pm.
If you enjoy Tuchman's books, you might want to give "A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century" shot. I finished reading this book about six months ago. It's amazing how the "political elite" of the 14th century behaved in an almost identical manner to our political elite of today.
Thanks for responding to my many posts. It's cleared up considerably some of the misunderstandings that I took away from your earlier comments.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Agreed, Kingfish....
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 3:56pm.
Tuchman possessed the rare gift of practically making a history book into a page turner. The March of Folly and Stillwell and the American Experience in China also excellent works.
Jer
Does Mark Sheilds realise
Submitted by Controse on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:52am.
he lives in a society blessed by capitalism? His CEO bashing is getting a little old. It seems the MSM vets its veteran commentators about as well as their favorite presidential candidates. If they pass the empty suit test they are good to go.
Out of the Mouths of Fools
Submitted by Avitar on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 4:05am.
Somebody send that man to Hershey Pa.
I know what he is talking about. I had a grandfather who was a UMW his whole like and loved to take his grandson fishing from boats. I spent hundreds of hours listening to tails of the things that mine owners did to the workers to keep them down and the bloody battles when the workers tried to organized themselves into unions. The only problem I learned of when I began researching the stories in College is the stories were not true.
Liberal political hacks that were shaking down the factory owners for protection organized the unions and the battles occurred when union organizers ambushed nonunion workers or competing small businessmen.
The great deprivation of the miners came when banking interests or the Government backed academics to reorganize businesses. This got particularly bad at the end of the nineteenth century when time-motion studies began to show how to optimize human labor. There were some truly horrifying things done by Harvard “Efficiency Experts.” Those who built the great industries were very seldom the ones who committed the great stupidities that was the administrating managers did. Think Steve Jobs and Apple the first years.
Ahh, the good old days..
Submitted by needle on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 4:15pm.
Mark Shields is living in the past -- like a century ago -- when the progressives were progressive; now they are more like reactionary.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.