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Medved Schools Schultz and Press on Tea Party and Obama's Tax Cuts

By Noel Sheppard | December 14, 2010 | 12:15

A  A
Noel Sheppard's picture

Liberal media members opposed to President Obama's tax cut compromise plan have been making the case that it's hypocritical of the Tea Party not to be universally against the measure given its impact on the deficit.

After Ed Schultz and Bill Press not surprisingly took this view on Monday's "Ed Show," Michael Medved gave them both a much-needed education on the subject (video follows with transcript and commentary):

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Now let's get some rapid-fire response from our panel on these stories. I want to know, where are the Tea Party outrages about the tax cuts? The tax cuts for the rich could explode the deficit by $900 billion over the next decade if the GOP gets its way, so where's the outrage? Where's the march? Where are the protests? I thought the Tea Party folks were against all of this? [...]

With us tonight, nationally syndicated radio talk show host Bill Press and also nationally syndicated radio talk show host Michael Medved. The vote today, gentlemen, $900 billion, Bill Press, are you a 30 percenter or are you with the polls that say, this is the right thing to do?

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Look, I don’t care whether it’s two percent. I’m with the people that think this is a bad deal, Ed. And it’s going through the Senate, but you’re right about the Tea Party. If they really -- this just proves how phony the Tea Party is and I think this is a problem for them. Because they’ve become owned lock stock and barrel by the Republican Party. You know, if they really cared about federal spending and the deficit, they would have protested the Bush tax cuts in the first place, they would have protested the expansion of the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, they didn’t, and now they’re silent when the Republicans have made this deal. This is bigger than the stimulus package.

SCHULTZ: Michael Medved, what happens if this doesn’t work and what is your measurement, what’s the conservative measurement of success on this $900 billion package?

MICHAEL MEDVED, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, measurement of the success is going to be seen with the unemployment rate, the general state of the economy, but the point about this is, there is a difference between the governments taking money out of the private sector, and spending it on government programs, and the government allowing more money to stay in the private sector. The Tea Party has always been about the size of government. When you leave tax rates low and then cut tax rates further, like this wonderful payroll tax that Republicans and Democrats can agree on, that tax reduction is going to stimulate the economy and it’s going to allow people to keep more of their own money and shrink government.

PRESS: Michael, that is double talk. This is $900 billion added to the deficit. You can’t run away from that.

MEDVED: It’s not spending.

PRESS: We can’t afford it, that’s exactly what it is.

MEDVED: No, it’s not spending.

PRESS: And if the Tea Party believe in anything, they ought to be marked massed right tonight in front the Capitol protesting this.

MEDVED: What Tea Partiers believe in is smaller government. The best way to shrink government is to shrink the amount of money government takes out of the private sector and that’s exactly what’s happening with this deal.

SCHULTZ: Nine hundred billion dollars, Michael, $900 billion. You know as well as I do, they were really squawking about the government spending. The record deficit.

PRESS: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: They said that government was running away with it. If this doesn’t work, Mike, we may have to fault. I mean, this is -- if this doesn’t work, this is a bad deal for America. We’re walking the plate.

MEDVED: Ed, it’s wonderful to hear you taking the deficit seriously. See, this is the point.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: You have both sides of the Democratic Party, both sides of the Democratic Party, each one is taking a Republican (?).

Indeed.

What Schultz, Press, and many of their liberal colleagues are conveniently missing is that the TEA in Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already." This is and always has been an-anti tax movement.

Though the idiots on the Left care not to look at its history, the Tea Party has roots in the Ross Perotistas that were so angered when George H. W. Bush went back on his no new tax campaign pledge.

As such, Tea Partiers supporting an extension of the Bush tax cuts along with some of the other provisions in the President's compromise plan are not at all hypocritical.

As for the expansion of the deficit, the Tea Party believe the budget woes are caused by too much spending not too little taxation. A Conservative Congress in the '90s demonstrated that the budget can be balanced with a mixture of tax cuts and fiscal restraint.

If Washington suddenly has less money to spend as a result of these cuts, maybe Congress and the White House will get more serious about reining in spending.

In reality, this is what's worrying folks like Schultz and Press.

It is therefore them that are being hypocritical.

*****Update: Tea Party leader and Big Journalism editor Dana Loesch offers her view:

People who make that argument have zero knowledge as to how economics work. Tax cuts add to the deficit; there is simply no data to support otherwise. The left supports the position that the government is entitled to the output of an individual. They believe that the government is a better steward of resources than individuals; in that case, why do we have a deficit? Why are Medicare and Medicaid broke? Why do we keep having to engage in deficit spending to cover our needs? It's because "our needs" aren't needs at all, they're "wants."

Giving people back their own money isn't expensive. Government spending is expensive. I find them rich, the remarks from Bill Press and the like. They have no problem with a trillion-dollar spending bill, over $8 billion of which is pork - but they have a problem with hard-working Americans of every class controlling their output instead of the government. Press's argument is invalid because it presupposes that tax cuts don't stimulate the economy which is false. After the Reagan tax cuts we witnessed exponential growth in government revenue for years; after the Bush tax cuts we saw 52 straight-weeks of job growth (as per the Department of Labor) because more individuals had more discretionary income to raise demand, bulking up supply, encouraging investors, et al.

The tea party has non been inconsistent with any stance on big spending. Press, however, needs to reconcile his advocacy for no tax cuts (due to a desire for limited spending) with his stance on the omnibus, the stimulus, edujobs, and health control.

About the Author

Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Click here to follow Noel Sheppard on Twitter.
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Comments

I could scream

Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:25pm.

Tax cuts for the rich and $900 billion my XXX. The tax rates are staying the SAME except for the payroll tax (SS) cut, which is actually a bad thing. If it means $900 billion next year it was $900 billion for the past 10 years, dolts!

Americans keeping their own earnings is a Civil Right! Demand your Civil Rights!
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Another person exposes

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:35pm.

Another person exposes Schultz as an incompetent dolt speaking on topics of which he knowns nothing about or is lying intentionally to smear conservatives in some fashion.

I am also tired of hearing the extensions being referred to as "tax cuts" since the overwhelming taxes are remaining the same and are not being cut. It is allowing existing tax rates to continue as-is (with a few exceptions). If this gets vetoed or stalled past Jan. 1, 2011 or not passed then tax rates would revert to earlier levels which would increase taxes hence it would be a huge tax increase. Referring to this as "tax cuts" is inaccurate and misleading.

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These idiots think that if the Government doesn't get taxes...

Submitted by acaiguana on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:38pm.

Then the government is 'costing' Americans.

Hello???

Too many threads on this...

So little time.

 

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

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There is also a bunch of pork

Submitted by ThatDude on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:44pm.

There is also a bunch of pork included in the bill. While I'm personally happy to see a reduction in SS payroll deductions, it is in no way helpful to the problem at hand. The bill adds to the deficit because it adds more government spending, not because it allows people to keep as much money in their own pockets as they have been (aside from the estate tax).

What, exactly have the Republicans won here? It seems that they've only managed to somewhat keep a bit of the status quo. I'm tired of the debate being controlled by leftists and drawn away from the true travesties that are occurring.

The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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'Obama's tax cuts'?

Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:45pm.

Now that's funny.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

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Worthless words

Submitted by grammajane on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:58pm.

All these yaho's blab about is racists and lowering "taxes" for the rich. They know jack about any sort of politics and are so arrogant believing any normal person would take them serious. They are total jokes and only make good conversation on NewsBusters.

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The Government needs to go on a diet

Submitted by Red Jeep on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 1:03pm.

I think we all know where the cuts should be. 

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Time to run up the BS flag

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 1:49pm.

Okay, let me see if I get this straight... Special Ed is upset that these "tax cuts" are going to run up the deficit by $900 billion. Even though there are no "cuts" involved. He also doesn't mention the $900 billion of pork that has been added to this bill. So, he's upset that, supposedly (with no references), tax revenues will DECREASE, but not at all bothered that government spending will INCREASE by the same amount? No connection between the two Ed? Wouldn't ANY rational person at least consider that if income was projected to drop that spending should also drop? This clearly shows that the concern of Special Ed and all his ilk is taxes, taxes, taxes. They have absolutely no interest in the insane runaway spending. None.

SCHULTZ: They said that government was running away with it. If this doesn’t work, Mike, we may have to fault. I mean, this is -- if this doesn’t work, this is a bad deal for America. We’re walking the plate.

I'm hoping this is just a transcript typo, otherwise Special Ed is REALLY "special". Like maybe, "we may have to default", and "We're walking the plank"???

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If ignorance is bliss...

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 1:51pm.

If ignorance is bliss then Speshul Ed Shultz could possibly be the happiest S.O.B. on the planet.

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I don't think ANYTHING would

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:16pm.

I don't think ANYTHING would make S.E.S. happy. He's one of the angriest people I've even seen...

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Avoiding the S-word

Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:13pm.

The answer to Press and Schultz is the S-word ---- spending.  Cut back on spending.

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900 bil of pork?

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:15pm.

Would you care to provide us with just a very rough itemization of the "900 billion dollars worth of pork" contained in the bill?  [Everyone is advised to please not hold your breath.]

Jer

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Not sure Jer,

Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:37pm.

but it may have to do with the definition of 'Ear Marks' being not just capital but also special considerations to lobbiest and special interest groups.  Things like the deal for Starkist (Again) is pork though it is not a direct cost but could be assigned a value by "experts".  Needless to say the "experts" are going to come to wildly different values depending upon which side of the political aisle they hail. 

Pork should be banned.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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Agreed, Agnostic....

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:49pm.

But not under any interpretation of the bill or definition of "pork" does it amount to anywhere close to $900 billion.

There are some spending measures included e.g. ethanol subsidies which directly benefit the midwestern corn belt states and the coffers of the GOP.

Jer 

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GOP coffers

Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 8:14pm.

It may do well for the GOP but does nothing for Conservatives.  Ethanol is most definitely not a Conservative platform nor is it pushed by the GOP though they do take their share of the benefits.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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Agnostic...re ethanol subsidy

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 9:30pm.

Republican Senator Charles Grassley pushed it.  Most environmental groups oppose it.  But Obama has also supported it.

Jer

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Ethanol-

Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 9:53pm.

In a spate of self importance I will say that conservatives should not be supporting ethanol and point out that Republican does not necessarily mean Conservative (don't know anything about Sen. Grassley). 

However, this is more evidence that pork needs to be banned.  If the environmental groups, President Obama and fiscal conservatives were united against something then this smacks of a seedy deal.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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Agnostic...

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:06pm.

Just to be clear:  Obama has been a supporter of ethanol subsidies.  [Illinois = corn]

Jer

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Jer,

Submitted by Agnostic on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:57am.

Still working my way through the See Dick Run books - Thanks

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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No

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:00pm.

Actually, I WOULDN'T care to provide you with an itemization. Everyone here knows you're a close-minded troll, so why should I bother? And no, I'm sure it's not $900 billion. But since your lib icons in the LSM seem to pull numbers out of their a$$es, I figured I would as well. As for the pork, there's at least $55 billion that has been publicized (what's tens of BILLIONS here or there?), and many sources simply call it pork or sweeteners without specifying an amount. Here are a few links:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/12/11/855894/lawmakers-stuff-tax-bill-with.html

http://redwhitebluenews.com/?p=13495

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/item_sDWSZTD2Uc3WVrsSxfG14M;jsessionid=96DAACDE5EC73E6733D7391F3DCEDCEA

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/12/13/mccain_tax_bill_is_full_of_pork_but_im_voting_for_it_anyway.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/10/obama-predicts-tax-passage-senate-presses-ahead/

The point, which I'm not at all surprised you didn't catch, is that it has been historically proven, time and again, that lowering taxes INCREASES tax revenue, yet the only focus is the misrepresentation that this bill only gives a tax cut to the rich. There is no tax cut. "Rich" is a misnomer, since the majority of those affected are small businesses who file individual returns and who CREATE jobs- NOT millionaires and billionaires. And where's the "outrage" on government spending, which is the root cause of the deficit? Why is it that every time a cut in spending is mentioned, is it about social security, medicare, the military, or some such program that seriously hurts real people? Why not address the many frivolous research grant programs that keep scientists funded (I don't really care how flies have sex) . How about getting able-bodied generational welfare recipients working (McDonalds is usually hiring). How about denying unemployment to those who turn down jobs that are "beneath" them? How about stopping payments to flea-bag countries that despise us (Mexico comes immediately to mind). How about stopping social payments to illegal aliens (housing, education, routine medical care, welfare, etc.)? How about reducing our "contribution" to the UN commensurate with our representation in that "august" body? How about congress and the president take s 50-75% pay cut? I could go on and on, but the effort would be wasted on such as you.

And unless you have something intelligent, lucid, and pertinent to reply, don't expect me to answer your usual spew. Have a nice day...

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As I suspected, idiot, you

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:21pm.

As I suspected, idiot, you don't know jacksh!t about the bill.  Thanks for proving it.  You have a nice day, too.

Jer

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Jer, did you click on any of the links? Here's just one...

Submitted by acaiguana on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:36pm.

 

* Manufacturers of kids' wooden arrows - $6 million.

* Puerto Rican and Virgin Is- lands rum producers - $192 million.

* Wool research.

* Auto-racing tracks - $128 million.

* Corporations operating in American Samoa - $33 million.

* Small- to medium-budget film and television productions - $10 million.

Another measure inserted into the bill appears to be a bald-faced bid aimed at winning the support of Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska), who voted against the original version when it went down in flames in the House on Monday.

That provision - a $223 million package of tax benefits for fishermen and others whose livelihoods suffered as a result of the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill - has been the subject of fervent lobbying by Alaska's congressional delegation.

Some of the pork-barrel measures buried in the financial rescue package had been contained in a bill that previously passed the Senate, but died in the House.

The Congressional Budget Office said the package of breaks - including obvious pork and some more defensible tax-relief measures - will add about $112 billion to budget deficits over the next five years because the bill doesn't contain enough offsetting revenue hikes to keep the budget balanced.

The legislative lard annoyed Tom Schatz, president of the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste.

"There's always something that goes on at the end where the last dozen members are trying to get something for themselves or for a special interest rather than what might be good for the country," Schatz said.

Some of the other measures added to win approval include a $3.8 billion health-care provision that forces insurance companies to provide coverage for mental-health treatment equivalent to the coverage they provide for physical illness.

Other add-ons will increase individual tax credits and help shield more than 20 million Americans from the painful alternative minimum tax, and offer breaks for businesses that invest in alternative fuels.

Also, several federal income-tax breaks due to expire will now be extended through 2009.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/item_sDWSZTD2Uc3WVrsSxfG14M#ixzz187Grafi1

And that took about 1 second.

So, your point would be?

Since you come here with a penchant for Liberal ideas (I know it is an oxymoron); I just thought I'd try to show you how wrong your ideas can be.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

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Well, ACA...

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 4:52pm.

You should have been able to determine in about half a second that earmarks/targeted spending/hidden insertions/etc don't even to begin to approach the nine hundred billion dollars in "pork" which Cappmann erroneously claimed is in the bill.  THAT is the point.

Jer

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My point would be...

Submitted by acaiguana on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:31am.

That there is a substantial amount of Pork in the bill and if you've got $1 Billion - would you spend it this way?

And even if you would, that would be your choice - right?

And if you were that disassociated from common sense - then that is not my business.

I remember when as a child (younger than 30) some twit inherited about $100 million or some such number and just gave it all away.

Not my decision; but none of my business.

If you are so suppportive of the so-called 'budget' bill currently before the Senate, why don't you write a check to Uncle Sam for whatever.

Your fixation on $900 Billion in Pork is right.

This bill should not pass.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

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Wrong Again Jer

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:38am.

I admitted that my 900 Billion was an intentional exaggeration. Seems you missed THAT too. The POINT, Jer, is that government spending is out of control, and raising taxes is logically and historically the exact WRONG thing to do. Cutting frivolous spending is the fix, yet the dems and far too many repubs refuse to address cutting spending. Is $50-$100+ billion in add-ons now considered pocket change?

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Hello???

Submitted by acaiguana on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 9:05am.

Here's another issue.

Why do you continue to defend the indefesible?

It doesn't matter how much 'Pork' is in the bill.  The issue is that there is 'Pork' in the bill.

It could be $1.00.

I would try the guy on thievery.

You are supposedly a lawyer.

At what point does a misdemor become a felony?  It changes annually, but I think in most states $500 is the breaking point.  And just to bring it up, at what point is 'fraud' fraud.  It seems to hinge on $$$ amount in most states.

But when it comes to politics fraud is ill (not) defined.

What you don't seem to get in your constant defense of the indefensible is that we (that would be me) are sick and tired of the fraud that is our government.  That would be 'hiding' 'stuff' in the laws they pass.

Bye the by - get off the juvinile responses to juvinile posts.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

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defend the indefesible?

Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 10:05am.

Jer? NNahhhh

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty
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Hi, ACA...

Submitted by Jer on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 7:37pm.

A few questions which are prompted by your post and I hope you'll address:

Where and how am I ["constantly"] defending the indefensible?  [I assume you are referring to the compromise bill in particular and in general to...I have no idea]  Can you point to a single provision of this proposed legislation which I have specifically defended?

You at least imply that I'm defending "pork".  Did you overlook my earlier response to Agnostic on this very thread where I agreed with him that pork should be banned?  Why do you continue to make assumptions about me which have no factual basis?  I understand you despise lawyers.  Does that factor into your erroneous assumptions?

Cappmann made a clear--and by all initial appearances a dead serious--assertion that the bill contains "900 billion dollars in pork".  I merely asked him to back up that claim.  He now acknowledges that he pulled it "out of his ass".  Do you think my request was unreasonable?  By what logical process do you twist that request into a defense of pork or the bill?

I will consider your advice about juvenile responses, if you will now personally lecture Cappman who, after all, first employed the childlish, insulting language.  You should know by now that I never initiate name-calling. 

Thanks...

Jer

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Well, jer - you are a Democratic Party Rep... Are you not??

Submitted by acaiguana on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:00am.

So, what is the issue?

The issue is defending the indefesible.  Hello?

So, Nanny State Pelosi and the rest of her ilk is not defensible.

There you have it.

And as far as Juvinile Reponse is concerned, well, there you have it.

Get off the high horse and come down to reality.

Could be a whole new idea.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

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Thank You Jer

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 4:28pm.

Just the response I expected. Thanks for the vindication, and another wonderful example of reasoned discourse with a liberal. You've done your people proud keeping up their track record of childish rebuttal...

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***

Submitted by Jer on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 6:04pm.

How about rereading your initial response, Cappmann...including its string of ad hominems, after which you can follow up your sanctimonious tripe about childish rebuttals with a stern lecture on hypocrisy. 

Jer

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thanks jer

Submitted by gfrrman on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:50am.

for keeping the juvenility in your response.  So typical of you that YOU are the hypocrite, ad hominems???.....lol

"As I suspected, idiot, you don't know jacksh!t about the bill".  

I recall YOU whining about me calling you IDIOT and you blew a gasket.  Wah, wah, waaaah!!! 

Said it before and I'll say it again, jer is NOT a LAWYER and he has a bed time of 9pm per mother!! He then sneaks on the computer later when MOTHER is asleep.

G


 

"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
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Thanks Again Jer

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:50am.

An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.[1] The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious. For in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.

Your argument itself is ignorant. I never linked the validity of my post with your character, or lack thereof. But, granting a waiver on the definition, where's the problem with my ad hominem? YOUR character on this blog is well known, so it is a valid point, which you have continued to reinforce with every one of your pissy "rebuttals". How about addressing the actual issue rather than throwing stones (very poor aim, I might add). According to you, I'm a sanctimonious idiot, and don't know $hit about the issue. Dazzle us with YOUR brilliant grasp of the federal budget. And why don't you surprise us by answering the question without any name-calling. That'll be a pleasant diversion. I'll be waiting...

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Cappmann...

Submitted by Jer on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:28pm.

Let me explain something to you, because you seem to be laboring with a serious blind spot when it comes to your own behavior.

You made an unqualified, and by all appearances, flatly serious assertion that the bill under discussion contained "900 billion dollars in pork".  [I acknowledge that you later admitted you simply pulled the number "out of your ass."]  But prior to that admission, I--while neither defending the bill nor "pork" --made a perfectly reasonable request that you back up the claim. 

You responded that you would not do so, because "everyone here knows that [I'm] a close-minded troll so why should [you] bother."  You proceeded with snarky references to my "liberal icons in the LSM", inability to "catch the point", lecture me about tax cut terminology [which I've never used], announce you could go on but the "effort would be wasted on those such as [me]" and "don't expect an answer to my usual spew".

So, once again, spare me your indignance over "childish rebuttals" (and your obvious misunderstanding of ad hominem argumentation).  I'm not a "close-minded troll", nor do I initiate personal insults.  However, I'm not the type who will simply roll over and let someone bully me, and I reserve the right to respond to name-calling and insulting rhetoric as I see fit.

An interestiing end note:  You claim to be a moderate conservative opposed to the extremes on both ends of the spectrum who in fact agrees with some of the liberal philosophy.  Coincidentally, I claim to be a moderate liberal opposed to the extremes on both ends of the spectrum who agrees with some of  the conservative philosophy.  There are plenty of examples which validate my claim.  On the other hand, I read every comment of yours which can be tracked [about 17], and there is absolutely nothing which validates your claim--just an endless attack on liberals and liberalism.  How come?

Jer

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Maybe because most liberals---

Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 8:44pm.

seem to purposely aggravate conservatives by acting like only liberals know what is best for everyone.

Or, it could be because liberals continually act as if they have never been on the losing side of an argument.

Or, it could be because if a liberal isn't acting like he never lost an argument, he is implying that a conservative has not, can not, and will not, ever win an argument.

Cuz dem libs be knowin' whut's best, an whut's right, and whut's bestanright.  Nome sayin'?

MD

 

  

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)
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Jer, you began this thread

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 10:22am.

Jer, you began this thread with a request that I roughly itemize a 2000 page, $1 trillion bill. Would it have helped if I had said there was a gazillion dollars of pork? I figure most NBers caught the sarcasm, but apparently it was too subtle for you.

And your "perfectly reasonable request" ended with a snarky [Everyone is advised to please not hold your breath.] which set the tone of my replies to you from that point. So, no, like a kid on a playground, you didn't start the name-calling.

As for my obvious misunderstanding of the definition of ad hominem argumentation, I'll leave that alone, since you are sooo obviously my intellectual superior.
 

As for my moderate conservatism, I do believe in limited, reasonable abortion for specific reasons, helping folks who are down with limited welfare and very limited unemployment. Hell, I'll even go so far as to provide critical medical care to illegals (followed immediately by deportation, of course). What I can't abide is the twisted liberal mindset of intellectual superiority, the complete twisting of conservative statements and philosophies (and anyone else who doesn't agree 100% with them), and total close-mindedness of the (getting smaller) liberal masses. I am tired of "progressives" telling me how I should think and act, how much money I should make, how MY government is to be run, how MY money is to be spent (especially on failed "social" programs), and how evil my life philosophy really is. I'm tired of liberals telling me to be quiet because I'm obviously too stupid to make any decisions myself and that they know so much more than me. And I'm DONE with liberal hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do, just doesn't cut it anymore.  Liberalism truly is a mental disorder, and should be treated as such.
 

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Cappmann...

Submitted by Jer on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 6:10pm.

I'm pretty good at recognizing sarcasm.  There was nothing about your $900 billion "pork" claim which even hinted at sarcasm and I would frankly be surprised if anyone who read your post would have thought otherwise.  That said, I agree my "don't hold your breath" quip was a bit snarky and had I known you were sensitive to that type of needling aside, it wouldn't have been added to my initial response.  I apologize.

Still, that trace of snark didn't justify your over-the-top reaction.  Saying "everyone knows you are a close-minded troll" is not minor, moderate, or even major "needling".  I've engaged in back and forth needling with countless posters here for years and don't mind it at all--in fact, I enjoy it.  What you employed was straight-out name-calling and personal insult--and that's not acceptable to me.  And when those cards begin to be dealt, I am often inclined to deal them right back. 

Anyway, I now have a better understanding of how this little verbal pie fight developed and the part my misunderstanding of your original intentions played in its escalation.  So, once again, I am sorry for my contribution to that escalation.

Jer

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Jer

Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 4:24pm.

I'm perfectly willing to accept your apology, and offer mine to you as well for any pokes in the eye I provided. The issue itself is far more important than differences in opinion, and rational debate without snarky comments and name-calling is far more productive to the entire blog.

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snark & name-calling

Submitted by MrShy on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 4:30pm.

...rational debate without snarky comments and name-calling is far more productive to the entire blog.

Yes, but is it more fun?

- Shy 12"
(and no, not that, unfortunately)

Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent

 
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Well, Shy 12" not in your wildest dreams...

Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 9:28pm.

I think Cappmann and I had enough fun for one thread, don't you?  :-)

Jer

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Yea Jer,

Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 10:08am.

I would like to know this as well, please.

 

There is no tax cut. "Rich" is a misnomer, since the majority of those affected are small businesses who file individual returns and who CREATE jobs- NOT millionaires and billionaires. And where's the "outrage" on government spending, which is the root cause of the deficit? Why is it that every time a cut in spending is mentioned, is it about social security, medicare, the military, or some such program that seriously hurts real people? Why not address the many frivolous research grant programs that keep scientists funded (I don't really care how flies have sex) .

    So how about it Jer, your dimwits ever going to get spending under control?
Seek Truth, Defend Liberty
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Plenty of room left on the

Submitted by Captain Repus on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 1:50pm.

Plenty of room left on the long school bus. ALL ABOARD.....

Did you know Doug has Mesothelioma? We'll deal with the government. You have enough to worry about.
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While the short bus awaits at

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 1:52pm.

While the short bus awaits at the MSNBC back door waiting to take it's on-air personalities back to the home.

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I bet Ed fails the final exam

Submitted by needle on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:03pm.

MEDVED: Ed, it’s wonderful to hear you taking the deficit seriously. See, this is the point.

Well, Michael Medved deserves A+ for effort.  But does anyone believe for a second that Ed won’t have forgotten this schooling within 24 hours at the most.

- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.

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Well here we are again

Submitted by Satchmo on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 2:40pm.

Well here we are again allowing the left to define terms and shape the debate. Unfortunately, NB plays along. This is not a tax cut deal. There are no tax cuts. This is a deal about keeping the current tax rates the same.

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The $900 billion mantra is B.S

Submitted by sam12663 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:00pm.

I really love how the liberal media takes administration talking points and pounds them into the ground. They can continue this drumbeat of class warfare all they want, but the American people aren't buying it.

I may not have a college degree, but I know the difference between a 'cut' and the status quo. All of this dreck about adding $900 billion to the deficit because the tax rates "for the millionaires and billionaires" are STAYING THE SAME is truly priceless. Only in a liberal world does this premise exist.

If the Democrats were actually honest (insert joke here) with the American people, they would admit the real reason for their claim that the continuation of current rates adding to the deficit is that they were counting on the tax rates going up in 2011, and they have that money earmarked for some of their pet projects and entitlements.

I have always had issues with the President Obama's stated desire to raise taxes on every 'rich' person making $250,000 per year. As an independent small business owner, I file personal taxes for my business. If I have a good year, and book over $250 grand, my taxes would be the same as multi billion dollar corporations; is that fair? Of that $250,000, most goes toward expenses and overhead. If I'm lucky, I'll see barely 20 percent of that as income. Yet, according to President Obama and the Democrats, I'm one of the filthy rich that deserves a big tax increase.

As with every liberal initiative or idea, the unintended consequences are of little concern.

Liberals lie, it's what they do.   
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The first tip off

Submitted by dirtydan64 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:14pm.

Should be in Special Ed's Voice during his lead in on this segment where it jst doesn't have the usual punch that his voice usually has when he is vehlemently opposed to anything Republican/Tea Party/Conservative !!! As I write this, apparently Democrats are now trying to push thru a massive package to keep Gov't running due to there lack of diligence to formally submit a budget before the house of Representives as is required of them to do so but are now trying there best in the last hours as the dead line to keep Gov't alfoat until we have the Conservative clavalry come to the recue of the American People and resurect what Democrats nver wanted to do during their rien in power. Folks this is nothing more than another Ominibus spending bill larded up with everything you can imagine and puts the 2nd Lousiana Purchase to shame.

Start heating up the phone lines to your Congressional members of Congress and back Jim Demint and several others who are asking that the Democrats propsed Bill be read in it's entirety to flush out all the ridiculous spending Democrats wish to impose upon the American People unknowningly and will not find out until it's too late for anyone to say Boo or until they see there Taxes are really going to have to go in only one direction and that's up not Down as presumably told by Democrats, and President Obama.

Lets cut this snakes head off before it's able to bit us in the ass  !!!! Call your Congressmen now !!!

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Your right DD

Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 9:56am.

And calling your Congressman is certainly in order, email them also

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty
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