Open Thread

By NB Staff (Bio | Archive)
June 27, 2009 - 10:07 ET

For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: meet the eight Republicans that voted for what will likely be the largest tax increase in American history --

Mary Bono Mack (Calif.), Mike Castle (Del.), Mark Steven Kirk (Ill.), Leonard Lance (NJ), Frank LoBiondo (NJ), John McHugh (NY), Dave Reichert (Washington), Chris Smith (NJ).

With a final vote of 219 to 212, Republicans could have killed this disgusting cap and trade bill. After all, 44 Democrats voted NO! If the GOP held together, this nightmare would have been over.

Thoughts?

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Conservatives allegiance

June 27, 2009 - 10:14 ET by KC Mulville

Again we see the distinction between a coherent philosophy of governance and the ebbing tides of public relations. The 44 Democrats who voted against it are more conservative than the few Republicans who voted for it.

Doesn't matter - the Senate won't pass this disaster.

"Doesn't matter - the

June 27, 2009 - 10:40 ET by ckc1227

"Doesn't matter - the Senate won't pass this disaster."

Let's hope not. We've got to get a few Dems to cross over to cancel out those 2-3 Northeastern Repubs who inevitably will vote for this. Is Byrd able to vote? That should be one if he is.

I have to disagree with you

June 27, 2009 - 10:41 ET by Jackrv

I have to disagree with you KC.

I'm pessimistic enough to think the senate will concur with the House.

Jack

Response to KC mulville

June 27, 2009 - 10:57 ET by Kingfish17

Sorry if this seems a tad harsh, KC, but you just don't understand how Washington and the House of Representatives works. When this monstrosity of a tax bill came up for a vote, Pelosi knew it was going to be passed. The important part of the vote count, when it came to the Democrats, was which Dem Representatives were going to be ALLOWED to vote no.

All the "safe" dems could vote yes because they are in districts that will re-elect them no matter what. A lot of the newer members need cover and need to be able to tell their constituents that they voted NO on this bill because they didn't want to raise taxes and they care for the peope and they want to save jobs, etc, etc.........pure political cover. Same goes for some older dem members in more politically conservative districst.

Some dem members were bought off with promisses of tons of money from the DNC next time they came up for re-election. There was a big fight among the group of dems who are not in safe seats, but whose votes where needed to put the count on this bill over the top, regarding who could vote no and who would be forced to vote yes.

So yes, are there a handful of dems who voted no out of conscience? Probably, but not 42 of them.

So if you're Democrat Representative tells you he voted NO! Tell him his is full of crap and it's his party that allowed our country to be sold out to some special interest eco-terrorists and the green industry.

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them." Judge Smails

With respect, I disagee

June 27, 2009 - 11:18 ET by KC Mulville

I deny your premise: this was hardly a slam-dunk from the start. The reason they spent so much in political payoffs is that they were justifiably afraid it wouldn't pass on its own -since polls show that the majority of Americans don't want it.

This is the ultimate liberal bill, since it enforces an expensive tax on people who don't want it, on the grounds that it's for their own good. That's what defines liberals, after all.
The Democrats from conservative districts didn't want to vote for it, not only out of conscience, but because their constituents strongly opposed it. The pressure was coming from the people, as much as from Pelosi.
It wasn't a "strategic" decision by Pelosi to make sure that the conservatives could offer bona fides later; it was an actual push from the constituents.

If there was no evidence of the opposition of the people to this bill, I might agree with you. But not this time. The people were strongly against it.

Yea.........

June 27, 2009 - 11:33 ET by Kingfish17

.....And Mr. Smith went to Washington.

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them." Judge Smails

"...This is the ultimate

June 27, 2009 - 21:34 ET by GregE

"...This is the ultimate liberal bill, since it enforces an expensive tax
on people who don't want it, on the grounds that it's for their own
good..."

And it is the ultimate global warming alarmist's bill. Any talk of global cooling will soon be met with "see, the climate change bill is working" and by it's very passage can shut the door on any rational discussion when the earth is in cooling phases (as it currently is). There will be only one true reason for the cooling, in the minds of the global warming alarmists and Leftists in America.

Language fit for a proper web...

June 27, 2009 - 10:17 ET by P. Aaron

...escape me at this time. I'll have to stick with:

IDIOTS! CONGRESSIONAL IDIOCY!

DID NOT EVEN READ THE DAMN BILL IDIOCY!

I don't feel any better. They're still there planning more destruction.

I want to know what made

June 27, 2009 - 10:25 ET by Sven

I want to know what made these fools sell their souls to "The One?!?!"

You know, it's really pathetic and ironic, I went to Castle's official website, and on the Home Page, this creep is shown in a picture reading to children!! Thanks to this GOP turncoat, this S*** for legislation will now go to the Senate! Do we really think the GOP Senators will be united in opposition to this Bill? I'm not holding my breath!

Oh yes, back to the children in the photo on Castle's website: Hey Rep. Castle, why don't you go back and meet with these children and tell them that you helped Obama and the Dems possibly bankrupt their futures!

As an aside (hopefully I'm not violating any rules here?), please visit this gentleman's website: http://www.electadam.com/ He's running against Representative Debbie Halvorson (D-IL)(Found this on RedState). She said she would oppose Obama's cap-and-trade, but alas, she caved!

Tea Party Patriots - repost

June 27, 2009 - 10:30 ET by kilrod

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tea Party Patriots Action Alert

TAKING TO THE STREETS - SATURDAY, JUNE 27 - NOON

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Tea Party Patriots,

Sometimes the call to duty comes in the middle of the night. This is one of those times. And we apologize for the short notice, but you've spoken loud and clear, and demanded action.

Since sending the email asking you what you wanted to do about passage of the Cap and Trade bill approximately 3 hours ago, I have received thousands of responses. All are demanding action, and all are outraged that the House of Representatives passed the Cap and Trade bill, which will cost each family almost $2,000 per year in additional expenses through increased energy prices across all sectors. Patriots across the nation are telling us it's time to take to the streets. We are in full support of your clearly expressed opinion and are here to assist.

To paraphrase one gentleman in the East on a conference call tonight, we need to lean out of every window and scream that we're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore! And we need to scream until everyone is screaming with us.

THIS BILL PUNISHES EVERY AMERICAN FAMILY.

Today you were scammed by the House of Representatives, and despite the fact that you shut down the phones of virtually every member of the House, and barraged them with millions of emails telling them this was against your will, they ignored you and voted for another bill which they haven't even read. The madness needs to stop and we need to stop the Senate from passing the bill.

Tomorrow, because you have demanded it...we take to the streets.

Take to the Streets to Protest the Cap and Trade Passage in the House

Date: June 27, 2009

Time: Noon until - as long as it takes.

Place: State Capitol; or Federal Building in your City, County or Parish

LIST YOUR EVENT AT WWW.TEAPARTYPATRIOTS...

Please go to www.teapartypatriots... and list your event. Please try to coordinate with others you see posting events there. If there is already an event in your area, please plant to attend that event, and / or volunteer to help that organizer. This is about coordination, not competition. We need to send a message to the politicians.

Bring signs, bullhorns, and your usual good behavior. It's imperative that we shock the politicians and press by being there in large numbers, but we want to make sure that we maintain our reputation by not causing any damage or destruction.

We wrote and asked what you are willing to do about it...and you answered, by the thousands...you said you wanted to take it to the streets. Now it's time for you to spread the message. The time is short, but we can make it happen.

We believe that the Senate will bring the Cap and Traitor bill to the floor on the sixth or seventh of July. We need to send a forceful message to the Senators that we will not tolerate passage of the ACES act in the Senate.

You are the patriot heroes of a true grass roots movement. We asked, and you told us loud and clear what you wanted to do. You told us it's time to light a grass fire and hit the streets tomorrow?

We apologize for the late notice. Your patriotism in standing up to your government is appreciated, and serves as a powerful testament to the founders of this great nation.

Thanks,

Mark Meckler, Amy Kremer and Jenny Beth Martin

Tea Party Patriots National Coordinator Team

Amy Kremer (amykremer@gmail.com; amykremer on gchat, 678.495.8271)
Jenny Beth Martin (jennybethm@gmail.com; jennybethm on gchat, 404.326.0936)
Mark Meckler (mark@teapartypatriots.org, mark.grassroots on gchat)
Rob Neppell (rob@teapartypatriots.org)

Tea Party Patriots on the Web
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our Website
Social Network
FaceBook Fan Page
Google Email Group
Products
Contact Information
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please call or email to let us know your opinion:

Kylie Kremer - Intern: 678.478.1514
Toby Walker - Chairperson - Cap & Trade Committee 254-836-5058

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier

kilrod, Any word on

June 27, 2009 - 10:36 ET by Sven

kilrod,

Any word on Georgia's rescheduling of their Atlanta event? I heard that they were told that the 20,000+ participants couldn't hold this Tea Party at the original venue??

No Word 7

June 27, 2009 - 11:16 ET by kilrod

I don't have any info 7, if i remember correctly they got screwed out of the planned facilities because the place belonged to a liberal rich prick. I would assume they moved to another location for the 4th of July Tea Party. There are numerous Tea Party organizations out there, i don't know if "Tea Party Patriots" is the org. behind the Atlanta affair or not. I believe we will have to take action in person sometime, are, bend over and take it up the arse from the libs and shut up and quit whining. Now is as good of time as any to me to make a stand. Probably tho, the short notice and the lack of cojones will keep this protest action from getting off the ground. But the "either/or" is coming, you either put up and cover the ground you stand on, or, shut up and bend over and admit you lack the courage to protect your country, your family and the God given rights that others died for in passing them to you.

kilrod

Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier

Kilrod, Indeed!! I

June 27, 2009 - 11:29 ET by Sven

Kilrod,

Indeed!! I attended the Tea Party in Salt Lake City on April 15th, and the people were jazzed!!

I think this Tax-and-Crap passed by the House is going to make July 4th's Tea Parties bigger than expected!

I want the Government scared S***less of these Tea Parties! The Dems and Obama are crapping all over our Constitution!!

I Agree 7

June 27, 2009 - 11:46 ET by kilrod

I agree, i too think the "4th" Tea Parties will be bigger on account of this "crap & tax" mess that just passed the house. In the mean time all i know to do is get in a lick when and where you can, keep yore powder dry and yore eyes peeled. Right now i gotta get off of here and see what i can do, Have a good-un,

kilrod

"Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of their country"

Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier

A similar cap and trade

June 27, 2009 - 15:49 ET by 24enak

A similar cap and trade bill was passed in 1990, called the clean air act, which its goal was to reduce sulfur admissions and acid rain. When Bush 1 was in office.

It was part of ammendments

June 27, 2009 - 16:12 ET by Dan The Man 2

It was part of ammendments to clean air acts from the 50's. It was bad then when a Democrat congress passed it and it is bad as Cap and Trade. The science is just as screwed up and as many scare stories.

Where is this 2,000 per

June 27, 2009 - 16:14 ET by 24enak

Where is this 2,000 per household number come from?

On that basis, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the net annual economywide cost of the cap-and-trade program in 2020 would be $22 billion—or about $175 per household.

For the remaining portion of the net cost, households in the lowest income quintile would see an average net benefit of about $40 in 2020, while households in the highest income quintile would see a net cost of $245. Added costs for households in the second lowest quintile would be about $40 that year; in the middle quintile, about $235; and in the fourth quintile, about $340. Overall net costs would average 0.2 percent of households’ after-tax income.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/103xx/doc10327/06-19-CapAndTradeCosts.pdf That's where I got my numbers at.

LOL 24.... You believe

June 27, 2009 - 16:28 ET by bigtimer

LOL 24....

You believe that do ya?

...and I've got some beachfront property for sale on the high desert.

If this passes the Senate....you on the left are going to be paying big time too.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

To Name Two Respected Sources

June 27, 2009 - 19:20 ET by stratman

that number

June 27, 2009 - 21:56 ET by katainkent

is only the smallest single year snapshot. It's a standalone figure in an absolute vacuum! The people at the CBO ackowledged this themselves. To assume that you can move one cog in the entire machine of this economy and not disturb the whole is pure & utter insanity.

___________________________________________
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past - George Orwell - 1984

Cap and trade myth

June 29, 2009 - 00:27 ET by stunned

tired of liberal lies

The CBO worked up the profits vs costs on a national basis and divided the total by number of households to come up with $175 in cost per household. But the costs are actually what you and I will spend on electricity and increased cost of manufactured goods and farm products. The savings are profits that will be made by companies selling off carbon credits. We both know we will be seeing the costs hard and quick on our electricty bills and not seeing the profits on the sale of the carbon credits. The whole formula was a fiction.

If you get your electricity from a coal burning plant as I do our bills are expected to double and we will spend a lot more on food as the utility costs of the farmer, wholesaler and retailer will be passed on to us which hurts the poorest amoung us. Not to mention that this bill will kill jobs in manufacturing since now the cheaper energy costs combined with cheaper labor costs overseas will drive jobs away. The whole goal is for us to use less electricity by making it cost more and generate government revenue. Politicians will profit by tweaking the regs to benefit their campaign donars so they line their pockets with campaign contributions until they turn cap and trade rules into the tax code, unmanagable and incomprehensable.

Bingo, Bingo...and

June 29, 2009 - 01:03 ET by bigtimer

Bingo, Bingo...and Bingo!

You got it down good.

This is going to hurt us forever in oh so many ways in my opinion.

They never quit with the destruction/control/power over us.

Never satisfied until they destroy themselves if not all...if we let them.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Honorable mention

June 27, 2009 - 10:36 ET by Reaver

Must give an honorable mention to John Boehner for attempting to filibuster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXZYcaSCeI&feature=player_embedded

The league of conservitive voters has the right idea

http://greenhellblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/lcv062309.pdf

Finally a post mordem on this bill

http://greenhellblog.com/2009/06/23/waxman-markey-fifo-corruption-in-corruption-out/

Notable quotes-

To compel Congress and industry to work together toward the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade regime, President Obama threatened both with EPA regulation of carbon dioxide, a move that would prevent Congress from reaping the political benefits of doling out $9 trillion worth of taxpayer funds to certain industries and special interest groups between 2012 and 2050. President Obama moved a step toward making good on this threat by ordering the EPA to declare carbon dioxide — what humans exhale and what plants need to grow — a threat to the public welfare.

Apparently even President Obama’s staff was somewhat embarrassed about that move. Obama climate czar Carol Browner ordered a “vow of silence” and issued an edict to “put nothing in writing ever” concerning White House staff deliberations on the matter.

Competing for most-appalling character in the Waxman-Markey saga is Rep. Ed Markey. Immediately after the head of Warren Buffet’s electric utility unit testified against Waxman-Markey’s cap-and-trade provision, Markey fired off a letter to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) specifically requesting that Buffet’s utility be investigated. After being rebuked by House Republicans for this blatant intimidation, Markey then asked FERC to expand the requested investigation to all investor-owned utilities, rather than appearing to single out Buffet’s. Now all utilities are under operating with a Markey-pointed gun to their heads.

If stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out?
--Will Rogers

I hate to say it, folks, but the stupid and the illiterate...

June 27, 2009 - 10:42 ET by R D Helm

...among us, who for some IDIOTIC reason we have allowed to cast votes in our elections, are about to do this country in.

Even if Crap & Tax fails to pass in the Senate, Porkulus, TARP, ObamaCare, not to mention the looming train wrecks of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, as well as the next FM meltdown that we all know is coming, and (insert your favorite entitlement program here), are going to do us in, anyway.

It isn't going to matter what happens at the ballot box next year.

-Dave

Obama's health care "reform" plan is to blow up the building in order to fix a leak in the roof-Herman Cain

...Yep...after National

June 27, 2009 - 11:00 ET by bigtimer

...Yep...after National Health Care, next up is illegal immigration...

God help us all.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

One person, one vote is a sham

June 27, 2009 - 11:03 ET by Kingfish17

The balance has tipped and more then half the country realizes that they can cast their vote to take the lesser half's money. It's as simple as that.

We are in for a slow decline and eventually will end up looking like Angolo where property owners get butchered.

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them." Judge Smails

it makes you think...

June 27, 2009 - 11:21 ET by Ascended Conservative

is all this being done on purpose (not just with the current admnistration, but read up on a lot of the stuff done in the past)? a lot of this just doesn't add up. the spending cannot be sustained. either A) our legislatures really are ignorant (which may be true for a few, but most are not that stupid) or B) something sinister is going on with its crosshairs on America.

sure, a lot of the public are lemmings and believe without question what their government leaders tell them. i for one, like to use reason and common sense. i don't trust those that purposefully seek the power of public office. i really think Mr. Beck has it right on many levels. open your eyes people! it COULD happen here in America.

just think this thought. "if i were to bring down America (for whatever purposes), how would i do it?" well, i would do a lot of the things that have happened. use misdirection and a false hope and change for the public welfare (these guys outright lie in many cases!), pass legislation and regulation to choke America into submission...

-ascended conservative

jessieH

June 27, 2009 - 10:41 ET by jessieH

jessieH I see that all of the ones that voted for it were from the most corrupt states in America. TRAITORS, each & every one of them..

Heaven forbid, but if this

June 27, 2009 - 10:45 ET by Sven

Heaven forbid, but if this Cap-and-Trade passes the Senate, and if this HealthCare reform goes through, I hope that those in the media, and all those who blindly supported it (and "The One") will feel the full brunt of its consequences!!

Cap and Bend Over

June 27, 2009 - 10:46 ET by dbo

What a total disgrace. The fiberals added a 300 page amendment at 3am on the day of the vote. Alan Grayson (D-Pig at the Trough) agreed to the bill when he was promised a new $50 million hurricane research facility in his district of Orlando. Joe Barton said it best

"If you haven't made your deal yet, come on down to the floor,"

U.S. Constitution- 4 pages

Taxman/Malarkey Bill-1500 pages

What a joke.

dbo, you stole my thunder...

June 27, 2009 - 20:15 ET by goldenthroat

I have been thinking the same thing! What else is in the house version of this bill had absolutely nothing to do with climate change? Lord knows what the left-coast, bleeding-heart, 'do as I say, not as I do" demoncrats slide in there at the 11th hour! I am furious at the namby-pamby RINOs that caved in to voting for this measure.

This whole process has been a sham and a scam, but then again, so is the whole Osama Bama administration.

"Inferior people should not be employed!" - Firesign Theatre

Oh yeah....and can you

June 27, 2009 - 20:37 ET by bigtimer

Oh yeah....and can you imagine if this passes the Senate and goes to conference what all they would insert, including the Cow Fart rules/laws they took out to gain some votes?

Never-ending.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

I wonder....

June 27, 2009 - 10:52 ET by BKeyser

...what the "crazy eight" are using as justification for their "yes" vote. Has anyone seen them interviewed?

BK... Nope...and I bet

June 27, 2009 - 11:03 ET by bigtimer

BK...

Nope...and I bet they stay in hiding....unless of course the alphabet networks, abc, nbc, cbs, plus CNN and last but not least msnbc come calling on them, why they'll be their newest heroes to be coddled...McC style.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

→ Jackson meets Mohammed

June 27, 2009 - 11:10 ET by Cool Arrow

"Welcome to this place, Michael. Sorry, air conditioner doesn't work. Do you smell burning plastic? I preferred prepubescent little girls, but to each his own"

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Wow, you mean to tell me

June 27, 2009 - 11:10 ET by msh1973

Wow, you mean to tell me Mack doesn't have any influence over his wife's decisions....too bad, they just cancelled out their votes.

I am hoping this won't make it in the Senate. I made my calls.

Wondering about my rep, Connie Mack...

June 27, 2009 - 11:57 ET by waincroft

...too bad, they just cancelled out their votes.

How convenient! Here's an email I sent to Connie Mack this morning:

We are very disturbed over Mary Bono Mack's vote yesterday. We have already contributed to your re-election campaign but have serious concerns that your wife's apparent liberal leanings will influence your votes in the future. We will be looking very closely at the qualifications and values of anyone who may choose to oppose you in the primaries and will make no more contributions to your campaign in the near future.

The Tea Party Patriots indicate these GOP Tr8tors have until July 2 to change their vote and have links to email. Maybe if enough of us email or call? Go here to get phone info.

For my part, I will donate to any candidate who runs against these 8, as well as Snow, Spector and Collins. And I told the Tr8tors as much when I emailed them:

We ask you to change your vote on this bill that Americans made clear, by their calls and emails, they do not support. We want you to know that we will make contributions to the campaigns of any candidates who choose to run against the eight Republicans who voted for Cap and Trade and do not change their vote.

Washington seems to have forgotten that they sit in their congressional seats to do the will of the people. The majority of the people do not want Cap and Trade, Universal Health Care or any of Obama's other socialist policies. Please be guided by our constitution and basic Republican values.

I am frustrated, angry and incredulous over what is happening since Obamanation became president. I am scared for my 10 grandkids. And I'll be damned if I'll sit by and watch it happen without putting up the best fight I can. My daughter-in-law is from Britain and you should hear what she has to say about socialism!

We'll be calling Tester and

June 27, 2009 - 12:10 ET by bigtimer

We'll be calling Tester and Baucus, both dems here in Big Sky Country...know it won't do any good with Baucus, and very unlikely it will with Tester either...still gonna' hear from us....

I hope if they vote for this...it comes back to haunt them, along with whatever happens with the Kennedy Nationalized Health Bill, plus illegal immigration coming after that....they can call that the Dream Act all they want, or any other new name they are going to tack on it...that was another McC/Kennedy Bill....don't think we'll be able to stop this either...

We are so screwed.

I just hope a heck of a lot that vote for any of these end up being screwed as well...permanently.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Maine Delegates All Wrong

June 27, 2009 - 11:10 ET by Norto

and do not expect much better from our Ladies. I called both offices just hours b4 the vote and the phone person insisted Michaud and Pingree had not arrived at a decision, even though they voted aye on the test vote. ????

Guys, I hope I'm wrong, but

June 27, 2009 - 11:13 ET by Sven

Guys, I hope I'm wrong, but think about something for a moment:

We can "usually" count on the House to come through on opposing certain things, but in this case, even the House (8 turncoats) betrayed us!

Do we seriously think that the Senate GOP (who are famous for going against their own party) will be unified in opposing this Tax Monster? I'm afraid to say, I really don't think so.

→ Right sven

June 27, 2009 - 11:16 ET by Cool Arrow

Time for McCain to give the old RINO-reacharound

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Cool

June 27, 2009 - 11:19 ET by Sven

Indeed! I'm quite certain he'll be joined at the hip (or the read-end) by Lindsey Graham-nesty!

→ Did he say that?

June 27, 2009 - 11:14 ET by Cool Arrow

Obama just called some of the Gitmo detainees "terrorists"!!

I'm shocked.

Aren't they "man-caused disaster agents"

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Cool... I heard this

June 27, 2009 - 13:09 ET by bigtimer

Cool...

I heard this too....as long as the O says anything....it's quite alright with the SCM...talk about hypocrisy at it's best...

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

I think we need to compile

June 27, 2009 - 11:20 ET by Roger the Shrubber

I think we need to compile what exactly these 8 Repubs were promised to get their votes.

We already know McHugh was given the Secretary of the Army post earlier this month...

What about the other 7?

Roger.. I'd sure like to

June 27, 2009 - 11:35 ET by bigtimer

Roger..

I'd sure like to know what Reichert, Wa. was promised.

...as well as the other 6.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

I Am No Longer a Republican

June 27, 2009 - 11:23 ET by JustAl

But, I think the national party should be able to remove financial support for these traitors (to the nation, not the party). Can the party legally expel them? More than any legislation in the last century, this one can simultaneously lead American down the path to a 3rd world banana republic and ensure socialist rule for generations.

Words cannot express the loathing I feel

June 27, 2009 - 11:29 ET by jefflebowski

for the Cap and Tax 8! Of course, the wussypants Republican establishment powers will do NOTHING to these traitors who aided in the passage of this nightmare bill in the House! They should be removed from ANY committees and be told they will receive NO money or support for their next campaign. Let the seats go to the DemonRats. What's the difference?

Angry White Dude

www.angrywhitedude.c...

They may not be able to expel them....

June 27, 2009 - 17:23 ET by Gecks

from the party, but they sure the hell can deny them national funds for re-election!!!

Obama Contributors Conspired to Kill Atlanta Tea Party

June 27, 2009 - 12:04 ET by R D Helm

I am sure most of you have heard by now that the Atlanta Tea Party that was scheduled to take place at Gwinnett Place Mall, and that I was planning to attend, has been cancelled.

What you may not be aware of is that, even though the tract the gathering was going to be held on is owned seperately, the mall property surrounding it is owned by Simon Properties Group, which happens to be co-chaired by billionaire Melvin Simon.

Melvin is a huge supporter of the democrat party, and has made large monetary contributions to Barack Hussein Obama, the Hildebeast, the useless Al Franken, and many, many others. He also threw a million dollars at the William J. Clinton foundation.

The management of Gwinnett Place Mall did not raise any objections to the event until it was too late for the organizers to secure another venue.

This is typical of the thuggery we have seen other Obama supporters engage in.

You can read an excellent account of what happened here:

http://www.worldnetd...

I am now participating in a nationwide boycott of any retailer or business that is currently leasing their space from Simon Properties Group, which has substantial real estate holdings all over the country.

Here is a comprehensive list:

http://www.simon.com...

I am also emailing every retailer at Gwinnett Place Mall and informing them that I will no-longer be doing business with them at Gwinnett Place, or any other locations they may have in the Atlanta Area.

I am also urging my friends and family members to do likewise.

I refuse to financialy support, directly or indirectly, businesses owned and/or operated by people who were stupid enough to vote for an incompetent, former street organizer thug who is currently working to rob us of our freedoms, liberties, and if not stopped, will ultimately deprive us of our country.

-Dave

Obama's health care "reform" plan is to blow up the building in order to fix a leak in the roof-Herman Cain

Hey Dave... I heard all

June 27, 2009 - 12:21 ET by bigtimer

Hey Dave...

I heard all about the details on Fox I think it was on Beck's show on Thursday...the gal he had on that was doing the organizing/planning was excellent on the show....

It is absolutely despicable what they have done...talk about a double-cross at the last minute...and from the sounds of this, it was done intentionally.

Color me red.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Dave, So are you guys

June 27, 2009 - 12:41 ET by Sven

Dave,

So are you guys going to have this Tea Party at another location??

It's time to march on Washington

June 27, 2009 - 12:20 ET by RD King

and throw the entire house, senate and especially the un-American, african or where he was born, muslim enemy POS of the U. S. A. out and then set up the Govt we deserve "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that
government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from
the earth."

I for one am just sick and tired of this BS, especially the muslim and since congress will not act to get rid of the enemy within the people must.

Keep bamslamming the bamster until he is gone.

go to Texas and secceed why

June 27, 2009 - 16:01 ET by 24enak

go to Texas and secceed why don't you. Obama won the election because the majority of people voted for him. Man you Republicans are such sore losers. Obama won fair and square, no recount of Florida necessary.

I'd like to know

June 27, 2009 - 16:10 ET by katainkent

how many of that 66.6 million people actually knew what they were voting for besides "Hope and Change"™

___________________________________________
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past - George Orwell - 1984

I think there's only one

June 27, 2009 - 12:47 ET by fitzfong

I think there's only one way to go. We need to contact whomever holds the purse strings for the House Republican Election/Re-Election Committee (I know for the Senate, it's that clown John Cornyn) and demand that they run and financially support primary opposition for the Parasite 8...and demand that the committee withholds any funding for their re-election (primary or general). Also, the Republican committee must direct significant funds to Conservative Republican opponents of the "Blue Dogs" who folded to the will of Plastic Pelosi...these "Blue Dogs" sacrificed the wills of their constituents to appease those of San Francisco, Westside LA, Northern Virginia elitist scum and the snobs in the Hamptons. These traitors need to be cut off at the knees now...and if the committee chair refuses to meet our demands, he/she/it must be targeted for overthrow, as well. This must happen no matter the result in the Senate.

As for the Senate: McLame, Grahamnesty, Snowe, Collins, Cornyn, Hutchison, Martinez and all the other RINO riff-raff must be inundated with demands to stop this crap from getting any farther. Vulnerable industrial midwest Democrat Senators must also know that their votes are being scrutinized. This must be defeated before it gets to the community agitator's desk.

"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -George Best

bigtimer

June 27, 2009 - 12:48 ET by RD King

That's obamnesty and I wouldn't be a bit surprised that he and the lowlifes in DC didn't try to back door it in with this cap and tax us to death or his obamsterlackofcare bill.

Keep bamslamming the bamster until he is gone.

Gang of Eight

June 27, 2009 - 12:57 ET by slickwillie2001

I hope that someone takes up the task quickly of assembling primary challenges to the Gang of Eight before this gets to the Senate. That will send the message to the Senate that this is not going to be a freebie or forgotten by the next election. The Senate is less susceptible to this kind of pressure because of the longer terms, but we have to send the message that we will not forget this.

Remember, the stinker bill McCain-Feingold got through Congress partly because they thought the President would just veto it. He didn't, because perhaps he thought the Supreme Court would just find it unconstitutional. They didn't. Now we are stuck with it and it's part of the reason we are stuck with the Bamster.

Imported Gasoline

June 27, 2009 - 13:06 ET by slickwillie2001

Good Bloomberg article on what will be a likely outcome of Carbon Cap and Trade, -the shutdown of US oil and gas industry in favor of finished-product imports, which end up cheaper.The result, -lost jobs, greater dependence on foreign sources for gasoline. Why import crude oil from Alberta's oil sands when it will make better sense to let them refine it into gasoline first?

Big Oil's Answer to Carbon Law May Be Fuel Imports: http://www.bloomberg.com

I also believe that cross-border power generation will become a cost-efficient alternative to generating power in the USA. Why build a coal generating plant anywhere within 100 miles of the Canadian or Mexican border, when you can build over the border and bring the power in cheaper than you can generate it in the USA? More lost jobs, more dependence on other countries for our energy.

We are governed by fools, what does that make us?

Mark Kirk votes for Cap & Trade

June 27, 2009 - 13:16 ET by Mudhen

Funny how Mark Kirk is ususally mentioned on the short list in Illinois as a potential replacement for Roland Burris in the Senate given how tainted that seat is or possibly for Govenor. I wonder how he thinks this is going to getting him closer to either job?

The question now is what difference would it make replacing a Democrat with a RINO? People in Illinois are desperate for a person they think they can believe in and now we know it isn't Mark Kirk. We don't need another Arlen Spector. I certainly will remember this when he comes asking for campaign money.

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." - Dresden James

Mudhen... Yeah, in my

June 27, 2009 - 13:33 ET by bigtimer

Mudhen...

Yeah, in my opinion Kirk is a RINO too...I can't remember the some other votes he has made, but I figured he was another RINO then....so it didn't surprise me that much yesterday when he was one of the eight.

I've also heard about the repubs big-wigs wanting him to run against Burris too...I just said to my husband, oh great, another RINO pick...just what we need.

Do they ever learn?

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Mudhen, I just donated to

June 27, 2009 - 13:48 ET by Sven

Mudhen,

I just donated to a Republican, Adam Kinzinger http://www.electadam.com/ who's going up against Representative Debbie Halvorson (D-IL).

This is really encouraging, this guy is getting donations from all around the US and has just recently (within the last hour or so), reached his $10K goal!

We need to financially support conservatives around the country in hopes that they'll defeat Democrats and RINO's

Normally I am not a fan of vigilante tactics

June 27, 2009 - 13:46 ET by shawn228

.....but I admit I really enjoyed this. Perez Hilton finally gets hit in the face. Too bad it was not Ms California hitting this piece of sh*t.

He had my vote

I love it! Everyone in

June 28, 2009 - 00:16 ET by ThatDude

I love it! Everyone in the country has a right to free speech, but the problem is that with that right comes the responsibility to be held accountable for it. I'm happy that this was the first and last time I've ever seen/heard the attention whore(that voice annoys me as much or more than the personality it conveys.)

Y'know, perhaps whiners like this deserve to get hit more often for being cowardly antagonists. I seem to live in a world where people are held accountable for the flapping of their own tongues. Retaliation is a bish, eh?

Hi ThatDude

June 28, 2009 - 11:40 ET by shawn228

Not very often you see a justice on a filthy animal like Perez Hilton. I am not a big fan of some people, but rarely does someone disgust me as much as him.

He had my vote

Remember those names

June 27, 2009 - 15:12 ET by KellyR

Get them out of office and replace them with those who aren't Obamatons.

→ Here's an idea

June 27, 2009 - 16:34 ET by Cool Arrow

Let's choose a State most in need of help, like Michigan, and have them do the pilot on this Cap&Trade legislation.

Then when all the industry comes flooding into Michigan to take advantage of this wonderful idea, it will be no problem selling the idea to the other 56 States.

So it goes with the rest of the world.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

CA... Grand idea...never

June 27, 2009 - 16:45 ET by bigtimer

CA...

Grand idea...never happen, as I know you know.

I would also pick Ca. since I've heard on the floor here and there a lot of this was based on Ca.'s ideas/models.

Yep...businesses are really not leaving there in the past few years...let alone look what they are doing to the farmers in the central valley and elsewhere with their laws.

Btw...we could throw in NJ since three of the Gang of Eight were from that state that voted for this and didn't put the kibosh on this last evening, once and for all.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

→ California it is!

June 27, 2009 - 16:51 ET by Cool Arrow

And the absolute success would show Americans that true conservatives like Arnold Schwarzennegar really know what they're talking about.

Come to think of it, maybe all those empty fruit and vegetable groves will pay for themselves as money comes pouring in as carbon offsets for fallow ground.

Wow! Hide and watch! I think I just stumbled onto something there.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Seems we have a new axis of

June 27, 2009 - 16:41 ET by ckc1227

Seems we have a new axis of evil: Cap and trade, national health care, and open borders/amnesty.With the first hurdle cleared on Friday, Democrats are poised to achieve what no enemy nation could in over 200 years of American history....the destruction of the United States of America.

ckc... Yep! Doubling

June 27, 2009 - 16:47 ET by bigtimer

ckc...

Yep!

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

→ Breaking News

June 27, 2009 - 19:12 ET by Cool Arrow

Michael Jackson died!

I can't believe it.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Cool -->

June 27, 2009 - 19:19 ET by MrShy

What is priority news to the MSM? Case in point:

A revolution in Iran -- the troubled key-player for decades now in the balance for peace in the M.E. -- with it's citizens being brutally oppressed and killed, and all the subsequent fall-out, is BREAKING NEWS for, oooh... 2 or 3 days.

A pop singer dying and all the "fall-out" from this will be BREAKING NEW for, I'm guessing... a week or two.

You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!

→ Tru dat, Shy

June 27, 2009 - 19:20 ET by Cool Arrow

Good thing I sold my Dupont stock.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

MrS... It has made me ill

June 27, 2009 - 19:22 ET by bigtimer

MrS...

It has made me ill about the basic non-coverage of what is happening in Iran now....I've posted as such today....same sentiments as yours.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

BT & Cool

June 27, 2009 - 19:35 ET by MrShy

CNN, NBC, MS-, et al, all the alphabet dumb-soups, BBC, NYTimes, and so forth ..... are the furthest thing from "news outlets" (FOX needs to be added to the list, too, on some level...)

They completely pick and choose, each day, each hour, what goes at the top, what gets pushed down, etc., and it's never in line with the reality of the world and it's goings-on.

It's all a farce.

You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!

→ It shocked me

June 27, 2009 - 19:40 ET by Cool Arrow

It really shocked me that Hannity, and Laura Ingraham (filling in for Bill-O) sold out wall-to-wall to the drug-addicted, crotch-grabbing, pedophile.

Glenn Beck, on the other hand, was true to his mission and dove right into the real news.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

CA... Beck was the only

June 27, 2009 - 19:43 ET by bigtimer

CA...

Beck was the only one worth watching....period.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

in their defense

June 27, 2009 - 19:45 ET by candance

I think the corporate people made that decision because they knew the dumb masses would expect it. For Glenn Beck's case, there was no news of him being dead then so it was still a developing story.

→ candance

June 27, 2009 - 19:50 ET by Cool Arrow

He did cut to the helicopter shot and made a joke about how big the mansion Jackison was staying in was.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

well yeah

June 27, 2009 - 19:55 ET by candance

But that was because of a network news break where they reported him going to the hospital, and Beck made a joke about his house for 5 seconds.

Fox News

June 27, 2009 - 19:40 ET by candance

We were quite disappointed with Fox's coverage of MJ. Sheppard Smith kept gushing like a 10 year old at a Jonas Brothers concert. It's too bad he died young and I feel bad for his children, but it's like he was George Washington.

My last straw was when Smith made the comment that only Barack Obama had achieved the same amount of fame. I told hubby, if we want to watch this we can turn to BET.

MrS... I know we all miss

June 27, 2009 - 19:41 ET by bigtimer

MrS...

I know we all miss and hit each other here at times....but believe me....I have included Fox....far more than once or twice regarding Jackson...and other issues in the past....but regarding Fox with MJ...I was absolutely appalled last night, especially with Hannity's show...don't know if you saw where I posted about that, but he must have gave the Cap and Kill us All bill about six minutes....and I'm not kidding...at the very end of the show too.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

BT

June 27, 2009 - 20:01 ET by MrShy

Didn't catch Hannity the last couple of days (been so busy) but that's amazing, that he really devoted a majority of time to MJ... ugh.

I mean, one show/night, I can maybe accept, but that's it. Pop star, sold millions, dead.

Cool... "drug-addicted, crotch-grabbing, pedophile." :p

The guy WAS one of my influences in my teens. If you know my singing, that alone will tell you. :p His early songs were killer hooks and grooves and production, but yes, he spiraled out of control by the mid-80's.

And he could have stopped at face-job #4, but there was no stopping him, apparently.

You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!

Yep, I do know what you

June 27, 2009 - 20:19 ET by bigtimer

Yep, I do know what you mean Shy....and I totally understand, I grew up with him too, loved some of his and the Jackson 5's music....seems after about Thriller....he was on a down-ward spiral, in more ways than one....and there was no stopping him.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Good gawd, the Sunday

June 27, 2009 - 19:19 ET by bigtimer

Good gawd, the Sunday morning political shows had better not be all about Jackson....not with all that has gone on this week politically.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Endangered Species List

June 27, 2009 - 20:15 ET by BlueCat57

I declare Open Season on RINOs.

And Sarah Palin can lead the way!!! She doesn't miss what she aims at.

We need to pare down their numbers until they qualify for the Endangered Species List.

Thoughts?

June 27, 2009 - 20:52 ET by Paragrouper

8 traitors.

Win or lose; this bill is so fundementally flawed that we should have been able to count on ALL GOP representatives to stand together on this one. What a crock!

I spent some time writing today to my elected officials, thanking them for staying the couse (hey even a Texan can see this bill is wrong;). I also wrote our wonderful chairman of the GOP and asked him why I shouldn't just throw all his requests for contributions into the shredder. I look forward to his response.

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr

Here's my thought: I have

June 27, 2009 - 21:12 ET by motherbelt

Here's my thought:

I have been throwing away without opening, every solicitation I get from the RNC....today I got a call ....I told the lady not another dime for that spineless lot who think the way to be popular is to be more like Democrats!

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson

Same here mb...exactly the

June 27, 2009 - 21:15 ET by bigtimer

Same here mb...exactly the same in fact.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

I appreciate your sentiments

June 27, 2009 - 21:31 ET by Paragrouper

but I prefer the Carrot/Finger approach to politicians; you do a good job you--get a carrot/you do a bad job--you get the finger.

I figure that every time you decide to contribute, or not, to a political entity you are voting--with your wallet. The only thing you have to do is communicate that to the politician or entity involved your decision and why. I try to use the same approach to corporate sponsors of certain neworks when I decide whether I will purchase their products.

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr

Keep you eye on the ball.

June 27, 2009 - 22:09 ET by pbthinker

It's easy to spot 8 Republicans that voted for this, and yes they did a bad thing. The problem is that we need control of the house and we're not going to get it going after 8 Republicans. Let's target 211 Democrats, including Waxman. The problem is we need good candidates so let's go get them and not wait until next year. I hope they have someone good running the campaign committees this time around.

One advantage the Democrats have that Republicans don't is the press. Republicans have to find a way to even up the process a little. We have to send the best and the brightest on these talk shows since the press is going to be supportive of the Democrats all the time. I can remember Newt on with Russert and Russert tried to say things that just weren't true and Newt called him on it immediately and set the record straight.

As far as the Sunday shows are concerned, is there anyone who's not talking to Rahm Emanuel? It's gotten to the point where I don't trust any of them since they're all putting out the Dem talking points. The only one who's asking anything close to a tough question is Fox and the Democrats avoid sending the power people there to be taken apart. I can only watch Schumer so much.

Election 2008-God's way of showing us that elections count.

Evening pb...I understand

June 27, 2009 - 22:18 ET by bigtimer

Evening pb...I understand where you are coming from, but I would think the party could walk and chew gum at the same time as far as ridding ourselves to the Gang of Eight and any other RINOs...and the opposite party.

Then again...maybe not.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Thoughts?

June 27, 2009 - 23:22 ET by seanrobins

Yeah!

Target...target...target...target...target...target...target...and...target.

That's eight GOP House seats that need to be targets for fresh conservatism in '10.

sean robins
blog.seanrobins.com

Supposedly my Rep - Rodney

June 27, 2009 - 23:29 ET by Free Stinker

Supposedly my Rep - Rodney Frelinghuysen (NJ-11) was considering voting for this, however in the end he did not vote for it.

I called his office Thu evening and explained that I would work to get him unseated in next year's primary if he voted "Yes". I doubt he changed his mind for po' li'l 'ole me, but I hope I helped.

MSM Ignors Iran in favor of Michael Jackson

June 28, 2009 - 00:48 ET by alwayscon

<a href=" http://tr.im/q1Rb">F... pages from the big three</a>. CNN at least has prominent sub-headings. Check out FOX and MSNBC though. Truly pathetic.

Huh?

June 28, 2009 - 01:36 ET by Rukus

"<a href=" http://tr.im/q1Rb">F... pages from the big three</a>. CNN at least has prominent sub-headings. Check out FOX and MSNBC though. Truly pathetic."

Ya lost me at "<a href="

Huh?

Gary

I want my country back!

Forget the marches..

June 28, 2009 - 06:21 ET by teeaa01

Forget the marches, NATIONAL STRIKE!!!!!!!

Yep

June 28, 2009 - 06:47 ET by kilrod

Yep, i agree teeaa01. Shut the country down and call for new elections.

(grins) kilrod

Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier

Silly? Maybe not.

June 28, 2009 - 10:11 ET by Kingfish17

We've all heard the stories about people not paying their taxes as means of protest and for all of my life I viewed these people as pretty much nut jobs. But I'm starting to have a different viewpoint.

When it gets to the point where significantly less then 50% of the people are paying the whole freight for the majority of the country, then things like a national work strike or a movement to just stop paying your taxes starts to make more and more sense.

The productive are going to get tired of being robbed and having their wealth confiscated in order to buy Democratic votes.

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them." Judge Smails

Good morning Kingfish

June 28, 2009 - 10:27 ET by cocodrie

Please accept my apologies. I had you pegged wrong.

I should have listened when Jesus said judge not.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

no worries coco

June 28, 2009 - 10:45 ET by Rukus

Jesus still loves you. But you already know that. He loves us all. : )

Gary

I want my country back!

Good morning Gary

June 28, 2009 - 10:54 ET by cocodrie

Great to be FREE ain't it? I'm praying that we stay that way. It's going to be expensive but we can do it with His help.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Yes coco

June 28, 2009 - 11:22 ET by Rukus

Jesus died for us so I figure seein' us through this mess will be a piece of cake. Prayers do wonders! Bless you my friend. : )

Gary

I want my country back!

Good morning cocodrie

June 28, 2009 - 11:28 ET by shawn228

I agree that it is great to be free. Interesting though how some people love freedom but love to pick and choose what kind of freedom we have.

He had my vote

Good morning Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 11:35 ET by cocodrie

What people would that be who are picking and choosing?

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Hmmm cocodrie

June 28, 2009 - 11:38 ET by shawn228

I'm talking about the ones that love the fact that we have the right to bear arms, but at the same time want the government to control and regulate what two consenting adults do behind closed doors.

He had my vote

Ring-around-the-rosie, Picky-picky-picky

June 28, 2009 - 11:49 ET by cocodrie

We are not free to deprive unborn humans of their right to life guaranteed by God and by our constitution.

We are not free to declare homosexuality moral when every civilization since the beginning of mankind has declared it immoral.

We are not free to change the definition of marriage from what it has been since the beginning - a union between a man and a woman.

Those are only three of the things we are not free to do. Good twisting though. I would have been disappointed if you haden't rushed in to defend immorality.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Picky?

June 28, 2009 - 12:01 ET by shawn228

Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean. I just mentioned a double standard. Now lets talk about your Ring around the Rosie pick picky picky accusation. I simply like to get an explanation of some of your accusations and maybe back them up every once in a while. Okay where do we begin?

"We are not free to deprive unborn humans of their right to life guaranteed by God and by our constitution. "

I would love it if you can you or anyone can find one post I made saying I support abortion.

"We are not free to declare homosexuality moral when every civilization since the beginning of mankind has declared it immoral".

Who ever said we should declare it moral? I am asking why government should get involved.

"We are not free to change the definition of marriage from what it has
been since the beginning - a union between a man and a woman."

Agreed 100 percent

"Those are only three of the things we are not free to do. Good twisting
though. I would have been disappointed if you haden't rushed in to
defend immorality."

lol cocodrie, I never twisted anything, your the one implying I defend abortion and want to change the definition of marriage. You never back up your accusations cocodrie, and I have been waiting over 3 months and counting on you backing up the fact that it is George Bush's official postion that we found wmd.

He had my vote

Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 12:20 ET by cocodrie

In your writings you say you are not opposed to abortion so therefore you support it.

On homosexuality you defend those who practice it.

On WMDs it never was the official position of the Bush administration that none were found. WMDs WERE found. Keep waiting.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Actually cocodrie, I never

June 28, 2009 - 12:51 ET by shawn228

Actually cocodrie, I never said I was not opposed to abortion, that is either a lie on your part of you have a lousy memory.

"On homosexuality you defend those who practice it."

Again cocodrie, not wanting the government to be involved with something to consenting adults do is not defending.

"On WMDs it never was the official position of the Bush administration that none were found. WMDs WERE found. Keep waiting".

Lol cocodrie, I have George Bush actually saying we did not find wmd and it was not taken out of context. Arie Fleisher also said we did not find wmd. Please give a quote from George Bush that we found wmd

He had my vote

Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 12:58 ET by cocodrie

Comments made in a political speeck is NOT administration policy.

As for the rest - read your own posts. Your attempts at juvenile debating are pitiful. Grow up.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

hmmm cocodrie

June 28, 2009 - 13:10 ET by shawn228

So George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Ari Fleischer all say publicly that we did not find wmd and you are still saying that it is a big fat. Unbelievable.

Sorry cocodrie, saying read your own posts is not real debate and wanting clarification and you backing up accusations is not juvenile debating.

Again cocodrie, before you make a weak attempt, I am not saying we did not find wmd, do so don't bother trying to make that accusation, please show proof that it is George Bush's position we did not find wmd

He had my vote

You're trying to rewrite

June 28, 2009 - 13:19 ET by cocodrie

You're trying to rewrite history by distorting the timeline of events Shawn.

You're good at denying reality and dancing around your own past posts. Have fun.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

another baseless accucsation

June 28, 2009 - 13:28 ET by shawn228

I like you cocodrie and don't want this to turn to flamefest. Please at least try to answer questions instead of dancing around them and throwing accusations.

"FLEISCHER: ... President Bush included. And despite the fact that we
were wrong about whether Saddam had WMD because Saddam lied about it
and everybody, included Bill Clinton, believed he had WMD, I believe we
are all better off and Barack Obama is better off because Saddam
Hussein is no longer in this world or in this Middle East creating more
trouble."

Bush saying 26 seconds in, Saddam had no wmd

"That's a do-over that I can't do," Bush said of his decision to attack Iraq based on the faulty intelligence that dictator Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

People are very y good with dancing around questions , but I believe we
can't change the topic now because I am clarifying exactly what I am
saying. Now please answer the question.

If it is Bushs position we found wmd,

why did he say we did not find them?
why did he say his biggest regret is faulty intelligence?
why did his former PS Ari Fleisher say we did not find them?

You have managed to go of topic and not show a shred of proof except
for your comments. At least give me a link. Not some independent study,
something showing specifically it was George Bush or his administration
saying we found wmd.

He had my vote

Not good enough Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 13:38 ET by cocodrie

You take statements made before the WMDs were found and present them as administration policy.

Get off that dead horse and grow up.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Actually Cocodrie

June 28, 2009 - 14:00 ET by shawn228

The statement from Ari Fleisher was taken about 3 months ago, have there been any new revelations since then?

edit

Also the other link have about Bush's biggest regret was the faulty intelligence was a in December 08. Wow there must have been some serious revelations about wmd in the past 6 months huh? Please fill me in.

He had my vote

Actually Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 14:14 ET by cocodrie

A statement by Fleisher to the Huffington Post to promote his book is hardly administration policy. You conveniently ignore the dozens of statements by administration officials declaring their belief in the existence of WMDs.

Nice try but get off that horse.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Well cocodrie

June 28, 2009 - 14:40 ET by shawn228

Perhaps you can find one those statements and prove it. I showed Bush saying it a year after we invaded Iraq and also a month before he left office.

Hey but If you want to debate like Nancy Pelosi and say that the Moon is made out of green cheese and there is not going to be any more debate and are too lazy to find a few references, so be it. Just don't be so quick to point out liberals on this site can't back up their talking points.

He had my vote

→ Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 14:19 ET by Cool Arrow

Why can't you just deal with it and move on?

Same old argument, same old answer.

A Dem President, and a Repub President acted on the same assurance of WMD's.

Others "in the know" include every 2000 Dem candidate except Obama, and you know it.

There was no intent to deceive, unless it was a bipartisan effort. If anybody would be deceivers, I submit it would be those same Democrats who acted later as though they were tricked with faulty information.

Put down some of that water you're carrying and concentrate on those things that are true.

And, by the way, when your electric bill skyrockets, remember it's not Bush's fault. Obama promised to raise rates as noted in my tagline.

It's very hard to anticipate all the whiny mealy-mouthed pouting the Liberals will come up with.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Come on Cool Arrow

June 28, 2009 - 14:31 ET by shawn228

You and I had this conversation about cocodrie in the past. This is not a beef I have with anyone else on this board only cocodrie. I am not saying Bush lied, I am not saying we did not find wmd, I am not saying we were deceived. Everyone thought we had WMD including me and there is no do over. That is not my beef.

My beef is that Cocodrie is saying that Bush admitting we did not find WMD is a big fat media lie. I have been giving him links and telling him that is not true for months and he obviously went to the Nancy Pelosi school of debate, because usually his comebacks are "why do you hate President Bush so much Shawn?"

He had my vote

→ OK Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 14:55 ET by Cool Arrow

If everybody thought Saddam had them, and everybody admits we did not find them, why are we still rehashing any of it?

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

Cool

June 28, 2009 - 15:00 ET by shawn228

because this has been something coco had been denying for almost a half year and it bothers me when he keeps saying it is a big fat media lie, when he is clearly wrong.

Do you agree with him?

He had my vote

→ I agree

June 28, 2009 - 15:05 ET by Cool Arrow

I agree they did find chemical weapons though they didn't find any that had been obviously manufactured under a recent WMD program.

I agree Saddam confessed his WMD program was nothing but a ruse to keep the Iranians out of his yard.

I agree, given Saddam's admission that it was his intention to fool the rest of the world about WMD, that it makes absolutely no difference whether he had them.

Under my plan of a cap & trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket - BHO

That was not the question cool

June 28, 2009 - 20:00 ET by shawn228

Please, I'm being serious here, no games. Do you believe that its is the official Bush administrations postition that we found WMD? Or is Cocodrie right and when he says the administrations official position not finding wmd is a big fat media lie.

He had my vote

Shawn

June 28, 2009 - 15:15 ET by cocodrie

I never said that President Bush never said it. I said that a political speech is not administration policy. You twist the facts to advance your juvenile "debate" and deny reality. Why do you twist the facts and deny reality?

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