Open Thread: For Gov't Unions, Nothing Is Enough
Of all political groups, government employee unions have perhaps the greatest interest in growing government and staving off any political reforms. Many Republicans are unaware of this truth, but now it is New York Democratic governor Andrew Cuomo who is finding this out first-hand as he tries to restructure the awful mess that is the state's employee pension liability system. There are several reforms the greedy union bosses are fighting but the one they're most against is moving employees away from a defined benefit pension plan to the 401(k) plans that most Americans have. For the union 1 percenters, that is outrageous:
The AFL-CIO is running ads blasting the governor's plan to "cut pensions by 40%." He should instead "make the big corporations and Wall Street pay their fair share." A couple of footnotes are in order. First, Mr. Cuomo's pension reform wouldn't affect current workers or retirees. Future workers would receive annuities about 16% smaller than what recently hired workers will get, though they would have to wait three more years to retire. New hires would also have to pay twice as much to their pensions -- about 6% of their pay -- but they would have the option of enrolling in a portable 401(k)-style plan in which they could select their own contribution rates.
The unions don't want to create another pension tier for future employees -- the state's sixth tier -- because it could sow more division among their ranks. But what really has them up in arms is the defined-contribution plan. Even though these plans would be voluntary, the unions fear that the governor's proposal lays the groundwork for making the 401(k)-style pensions mandatory down the line. Defined-contribution plans also make it harder for unions to retain members. The promise of a generous pension after 25 years of service is the only thing tying many public workers to their jobs.
Trouble is, taxpayers are the ones getting hit with the bill. In New York City, for instance, taxpayers are contributing $8 billion a year to worker pension funds, up from $1.3 billion a decade ago. Mayor Michael Bloomberg published an op-ed in the New York Daily News on Thursday urging state lawmakers to approve the governor's plan in order to save the city from more tax hikes and service cuts.
Even though 66% of New Yorkers support the governor's plan, according to a new Siena College poll, the union airstrikes have lawmakers running for cover. The governor recently suggested that he'd be open to goosing benefits when pension fund returns improve, and lawmakers are working on a watered-down bill that scraps the defined-contribution option. The governor and legislators may represent voters, but they answer to the unions.
Who knows what Cuomo will end up doing in the face of union cash but you at least have to give him credit for trying to put things in order.
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Comments
I'd reconsider that headline.
Submitted by DumbCanuck on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:46am.
to something like:
"For Gov't Unions, Everything is Not Enough."
Your way makes the unions sound downright phylanthropic -- charitable, even! ;)
"There... Are... Four... Lights!"
Government 101
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 10:40am.
After years of garnering political support (i.e. $$$) from special interest groups by expanding government commitments, Democratic governors and mayors are now getting a refresher in governance.
- The Occupy XXXXX movement created security and sanitation problems in Democratic ruled American cities, running up bills the cities can't afford. Eventually, the cities had to forcibly remove the demonstrators, which they didn't want to have to do.
- State and local pensions are reaching the tipping point and require major restructuring of union contracts, meaning loss of some promised benefits.
Washington is still kicking the can down the road on the Federal level, but governors and mayors are faced with the bitter choice of bankrupting their governments, or just saying "No."
And the labor unions are going to remind these Dems that they didn't support their elections just to get the same deal the Republicans were offering. They'll just tell the Dems to raise taxes -- which will drive business out of the states like it did in New Jersey, taking jobs and tax revenue with it.
Dems like Governor Cuomo -- who has to have labor support when he runs for President in 2016 -- is faced with the dilemma of the Dems own making.
Don't be so sure...
Submitted by TC Lynch on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:48am.
about Evil Eyes Andy caving to the union bluster. So far he's managed to hold his own against Shelly Silver--the real power in Albany.
The only way...
Submitted by MacWell on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:57am.
New York will change, is if New Yorkers get sick and tired of being lied to, stolen from, and made fools of daily by those they've sent to represent the people's interest instead of their own.
When the people of New York decide enough is enough and vote them all out and start over, only then will New Yorkers get the government they deserve.
just sayin
Fat chance that New Yorkers will change, ever.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 11:25am.
Remember, they were the "Americans" who George Washington had to fight during the Revolution before he could get around to trying to hold off the English.
Congress should ban public employee unions at the federal level. If states want to allow them, at their own peril, then let'em have them. Everyone except the "takers" will simply move to other states that don;t have to put up with that crap.
Ronald Reagan showed the world how to handle a "critical federal union" when he fired the entire PATCO union for giving him grief.
Everyone thought that the country would collapse. Funny thing happened on the way to the collapse. We did just fine, and they were out of work for good!
That is the definition of LEADERSHIP, politicians (you dumb bastards).
Decertify SEIU. Give workers a chance to keep their jobs on the basis of no union contract and new rules and wages, and benefits. Otherwise, hit the road, Jack (and Jane). Call Account Temps or some other temp agency to staff up till you can hire new permanent employees.
We won't even be able to tell anything happened by the level of service, except it might get so much better, some will wonder what happened
!
Same here!!!
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:51pm.
Just change the name to California, and Los Angeles, and you got the same thing!! And with the senile bald man, we have the same government as New York state!
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
"The promise of a generous pension after 25 years of service...
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:58am.
..... is the only thing tying many public workers to their jobs."
Seriously? So the health care, numerous sick days, paid holidays and more than generous salary has no appeal?
How is the MSM going to cover this story or will they ignore it?
Submitted by stunned on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 10:13am.
Ignore it gets my vote. Cuomo and other Democrat governors are ruining the "war on union" headlines they used when reporting on Republican governors battles with unions. You can hear the MSM now, "Hey Cuomo shut up!! You are ruining everything we have worked so hard to promote. It is Chris Christy, Scott Walker and others who want to DESTROY government unions that have been the MSM template for over a year. Where are the stories about Democrat governors wanting to restruction union packages? Can't wait until the unions hold a sit in in Albany like they did in Trenton and Madison and the MSM loop the optics for days. Waiting for the stories with draconian, unpopular and outrageous that are commonly used to describe Republican attempts to reform union benefit plans to be attributed to Cuomo. LOL yeah I know, I am not holding my breath.
tired of liberal lies
An Award from Commnists......
Submitted by GregE on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 11:48am.
......with praise from one Barack Obama.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/video-reportedly-shows-dem-rep-receiving...
Interesting article.
Submitted by Par for the Course on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 12:39pm.
Tim Tebow Feel Good Article of the Day
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 1:45pm.
Here.
John Elway, take note.
Anyone have the poll results for Tebow/Peyton?
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Blonde, Manning would be the best thing that could happen
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 2:07pm.
to Tebow as far as assisting in his continued development as a pro QB. Even if Peyton is and remains healthy, he will probably be limited to maybe three more years as a starter. Tim would be benefiting from exposure to and tutelage by the finest football mind in the history of the game. And both are class individuals as well.
Jer
Disagree, Jer
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 3:40pm.
I think Tebow has earned the starting job in Denver.
Elway is deluding himself, the fans will turn on him in a heartbeat if he brings Elway in and starts him over Tebow. I'd rather see Tim traded to another team, than to warm the bench for an elderly Manning. I also think Peyton is crazy to play again, at his age and with a bad neck.
Having said that, regardless of what happens, I know both these gentlemen will do great things, off the field. They're both a credit to southerners and the SEC.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Blonde...I know you know I'm a Tebow fan.
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:45pm.
And if character were the sole criterion, he would already have a spot reserved for him in the Hall of Fame. Plus, Tim's proved me wrong since I didn't think he would ever play--much less start--in the NFL as a quarterback. But for all the progress he's made, I know Elway wants a more prototypical NFL QB, and Tim still has some mechanical deficiencies. Maybe he can work them out on his own or with the help of Denver coaches. That said, I can think of some worse fates than playing behind and watching and learning from Manning for a couple of years.
Anyway, I'm still holding out hope Peyton will go with the Titans. He would own the state of Tennessee.
Jer
Tim's "mechanical deficiencies" are overemphasized
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:59pm.
He's a great passer, if his receivers can get open. Just review his "greatest hits" from the playoff run. His ability to take the ball and run if his receivers can't get where they need to be also forces defenses to DEFEND HIM, which opens up myriad other possibilities.
The game is slowing down for him. He's not going to have to utilize Plan B the more experience he gets under his belt (as this year showed), but it's ALWAYS there as long as he's in the game.
I think John Elway is trying to recreate his glory days in Denver with Manning. I also think the fans will not be amused. I think Tebow brings more to the organization as a whole (selling seats and merchandise) than Manning will be able to. But of course, I'm just a bandwagon Denver fan, as soon as Tebow is gone they'll go back to being "who?" for me.
If Manning is such a great mentor, how come Indy is looking for Luck, and hasn't had a second stringer for Manning to groom as his replacement? I'm not saying he couldn't mentor Tebow, but I just don't see that happening.
LOL, Peyton already owns Tennessee....maybe he wants another state?
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Blonde...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 5:32pm.
Peyton Manning has been the de facto coach of Indianapolis for fourteen years. He not only knows more about the intricacies of the Colt offense than does anyone else on the team, including the coaches, but he knows more about the offenses of every other team in the league than do most of the players and coaches on those teams. He knows the background, strengths and weaknesses, and statistical record of every single player in the NFL, and that of virtually every player likely to be drafted out of college, and the same for numerous high schoolers as well.
When the Colts were restricted from having a potential draftee come to their facility, Peyton personally drove his car seven hundred miles round trip twice a week for several months to practice with the receiver. At the end of each season, he would call the Indy coaching staff together with a legal pad full of questions regarding areas of improvement for the next season.
Manning never missed a practice or a game while at TN. He never missed a practice or a game for thirteen years with the Colts--until this year. I guess management could hardly be blamed for believing he was indestructible, and that investing in a high-priced backup QB would be a waste of money.
Peyton Manning is a bona fide football genius. If Tim Tebow couldn't learn anything from Manning, it would be Tim's fault. But I'm sure Tim would be more than willing and eager to learn from one of the all time greats.
Jer
I don't see Peyton Manning as a genius; rather as an ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 6:41pm.
exceptionally hard worker with monstrous due diligence capability and drive.
You saying he spent forty hours a week, personal drive time, for several months, to work with a receiver?
Seems unlikely.
MD
The term was "football genius", and I'm willing to go with the
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 6:51pm.
Edison definition of "genius".
As far as your "forty hours a week" tally...reread, recalculate.
Jer
I read the term, and Peyton is no genius, ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 7:02pm.
football or otherwise; he just works hard.
I'll revise the estimate by cutting it in half because I erred by not properly using "round trip" as a factor.
Still unlikely.
MD
I saId I would go with the Edison definition...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 7:22pm.
however, Manning did graduate Phi Beta Kappa in three years, so he's not exactly slow-witted academically. BTW, how would you define a football genius?
As far as the "round trip" work outs, take it up with ex-Colt GM Bill Polian. He was the source for the story.
Jer
Never said he was slow-witted, ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 7:58pm.
and having never conflated the words 'football' and 'genius', I don't plan to do so now.
As far as Bill Pollian goes, I don't believe I have ever seen a post by him at NBs.
You, on the other hand ---.
MD
Okay, Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 8:16pm.
We've established you know little about football and less about Manning and your Edison scholarship has a few holes. Plus, you need to brush up on your math skills.
Time to move on.
Jer
And it is also established, beyond doubt, that ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 8:49pm.
as a house lib on a conservative site, you will make whatever quips necessary to engorge your sense of self - no matter how mundane.
I am so impressed.
Move on to where?
To what?
A blog site free of Jer criticisms cuz ol' Jer hisself says he don't deserve 'em cuz he badmouths foul mouthed liberals?
Throw another order/suggestion my way, please; so that I can ignore it, too.
MD
Blonde - you mean Elway is
Submitted by killa37 on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:50pm.
Blonde - you mean Elway is going to strap on the helmet and become a starter again?? Hahahaha!!! Ok ok.........I know it's a typo.
Ah, so it is.
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 5:01pm.
Right you are. But I really see Elway trying to recreate HIS glory days with Manning at the helm of the Broncos. But that's just me.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Not just you, blonde.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 03/13/2012 - 11:13am.
I've been saying that since Tebow got to Denver. He doesn't "play like Elway" played, so naturally he can't be worth a Shiite in John's pea brain.
As far as "mechanical deficiencies" go, poor old Arnold Palmer had the ugliest golf swing and "mechanical problems" out the wazoo of ANY pro golfer I have ever seen! I know some hackers who have prettier form. So what? He knew how to get the ball in the hole, and he knew how to win.
Tebow can throw the ball behind his back or between his legs as long as it gets to a receiver who can catch it. That is all he needs in the way of "mechanics."
Bring his back to FL.
Most of the sports talking
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 5:10pm.
Most of the sports talking heads are putting their money on Arizona. Climate and a receiver named Larry Fitzgerald have a lot to do with it.
Good evening Blonde
Submitted by cocodrie on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 2:16pm.
Thanks so much for that.
I guess the idiot sportscasters will rake Tim over the coals for wasting time away from practice.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Re: Unions
Submitted by bkeyser on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 3:41pm.
For union supporters out there, a question: Do you support everyone joining a union upon their first employment? And if so, how would 100% participation be feasible? If not, why?
Fun Oil graph, BTW, more oil production in 1970's than now.
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 3:58pm.
http://www.nationalreview.com/sites/default/files/nfs/uploaded/u25930/20...
Flush the EPA, now!
You Didn't Build That.
Speaking of violence against women:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:31pm.
Guess which lovable octogenarian euro-billionaire likes to smack around his whores?
That would be Count Dracula
Submitted by killa37 on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:39pm.
That would be Count Dracula Soros.
Killa 46" of rain in a week...About 6" at my place...
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 4:58pm.
Now you can hear the jungle grow, Oh man I need to 'bust out the weed eater.
You Didn't Build That.
I saw that, upc
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 5:01pm.
49" in a week....7" a day. That's a MONSOON for real!
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Wow,
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:53pm.
Thats impressive
Stay safe
Felt like 60" over here!!!
Submitted by killa37 on Tue, 03/13/2012 - 2:26am.
Felt like 60" over here!!! Today was actually nice! Trying to pour concrete tomorrow.
Killa, Hawaii Republicans and first caucus
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 03/13/2012 - 12:09pm.
Be sure to bring a photo ID....
A 2 hour voting window, and a it's different place to vote than in the general elections.
The part I hate the most about voting here is that each and every ballot has a number on it, and that number is copied down next to your name. In the big fat voting book....
Good luck with your pour... Hope the sky don't pour too...
You Didn't Build That.
Department of Injustice has
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 5:16pm.
Department of Injustice has now gone after Texas over their voter ID law. Tea Party is calling on Bonehead to grow a pair and go after Holder on Fast and Furious. I think we all know how much of a chance this nation stands if Obama is re-elected. Holder is just one example. SCOTUS is another. The constitution will be heaped on the ashes of history. It is over for us.
Watch out for the Amish drunks
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:07pm.
For some reason, this really cracked me up.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Sooooooooooo.....
Submitted by GregE on Mon, 03/12/2012 - 9:24pm.
"I have the President‘s back and it’s left up to us, as African Americans, to show that we have his back also. Join African Americans for President Obama today.”
www.theblaze.com/stories/chicago-bears-head-coach-tells-african-american...
How would it work out for Bill Belichik, Jason Garrett, John Harbaugh, etc etc, if they were part of a commercial later in the where it goes something like this...........
'I have the challenger's back and it’s left up to us, as white people, to show that we have his back also. Join White People for Romney / Santorum today.”
#
Say it with me.............ALL would be fired and will forever be labeled racists. The End.
Obama, the great uniter............my arse. Freakin Hugo Chavez.