Open Thread: Class Warfare's Failure
You would think given the utter failure that Democratic presidential campaigns have had with class warfare rhetoric--John Edwards, John Kerry, Al Gore, and Walter Mondale come to mind--that their strategists would have realized long ago that the politics of envy just don't work.
Unfortunately, however, that hasn't been the case, as President Obama has embraced with abandon attacks on his fellow Americans (while at the same time keeping an open door for the very richest to give and receive favors). This time around, class warfare is not working too well, either, as political analyst Michael Barone writes:
"A 2008 election widely regarded as heralding a shift toward the more government-friendly public sentiment of the New Deal and Great Society eras seems to have yielded just the reverse."
So writes William Galston, Brookings Institution scholar and deputy domestic adviser in the Clinton White House, in the New Republic. Galston, one of the smartest political and policy analysts around, has strong evidence for this conclusion.
He cites a recent Gallup poll showing that while 82 percent of Americans think it's extremely or very important to "grow and expand the economy" and 70 percent say it's similarly important to "increase equality of opportunity for people to get ahead," only 46 percent say it's important to "reduce the income and wealth gap between the rich and the poor," and 54 percent say this is only somewhat or not important.
In addition, by a 52 to 45 percent margin, Americans see the gap between the rich and the poor as an acceptable part of the economic system rather than a problem that needs to be fixed. In 1998, during the high-tech economic boom, Americans took the opposite view by the same margin.
As Galston notes, these findings suggest that Obama's much-praised speech at Osawatomie, Kan., decrying inequality, "may well reduce his chances of prevailing in a close race." Class warfare politics, as I have noted, hasn't produced a Democratic presidential victory in a long, long time.
The full discussion in the article is worth reading. It does
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Comments
Margaret Thatcher wasn't
Submitted by motherbelt on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:39am.
Margaret Thatcher wasn't talking about American liberals, but she nailed them just the same when she said They would rather the poor be poorer, provided the rich are less rich.
A bit choosy with the labels
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:41am.
Notice how wealthy lawyers, professors, politicians, film makers, actors, actresses, writers, musicians, etc. AREN"T included in the 'wealthy' class.
And now OWS is targeting
Submitted by motherbelt on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:59am.
And now OWS is targeting (oops! Can I say that?) Nancy Pelosi!
Don't they know she's on their side (God bless them!)???
Remember these are Obama's
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 2:10pm.
Remember these are Obama's and Pelosi's people.
Just gotta love their defense.
Submitted by UpNorth on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:21pm.
“They’re calling us hippies who want to smoke marijuana and beat drums,” Bargert said. “We’re not.”
Um, looking at your picture, Mr. Bargert, yeah, you are. Just another dirty, smelly Occutard.
More Pervert Indoctrination
Submitted by ThisnThat on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:08pm.
California is going to force queer perversion on children in 2012. Kids will be forced to "learn" how this nation wouldn't have been great if it hadn't been for people who are perverts. Wanna bet this "lesson" will quickly teach children the following: "If you bugger another man's @$$, you stand a good chance that you are a better American than anyone else". Or falsely charge our great presidents, scientists, explorers, etc as having been queers?
When will this brainwashing stop?
__________
“Didn't win the Medal of Honor? Didn't even serve? Then lie about it. We'll support you." — 9th Circuit Court
Taliban commander to be released from Guantanamo
Submitted by ThisnThat on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:15pm.
o'bama says this will bring "peace in our time" -- especially since "the Taliban is not our enemy".
Remember, dims only think conservative republicans and the Tea Party our our enemies.
__________
“Didn't win the Medal of Honor? Didn't even serve? Then lie about it. We'll support you." — 9th Circuit Court
Wait......
Submitted by jon_torlin on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:46pm.
When did the Taliban stop being our enemy? Did the muslim in chief make a deal with that bunch of muslims? Isn't that negotiating with terrorists? Oh yeah, forgot that was done in Libya and Egypt as well.
-Jon
Jon, there doesn't appear to be anyone this admin.
Submitted by UpNorth on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:27pm.
won't bow to, including the Taliban.
He wants something, anything to offer the Nato "Summit" he's going to hold in Chicago this coming summer. Even if it's surrender, disguised as "negotiations".
Be cafeful your sins will find you out
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 4:09pm.
Remember God told Saul to go destroy all the Amalekites and their livestock? What does he do? He keeps a bunch alive as well as their livestock. Saul commits suicide. Who cuts off his head and takes it to David? It is one of those Amalekites that he was supposed to have killed. So Obama lets this Taliban creep go. What is going to happen? He will kill Americans. Be careful your sins will find you out.
We must remember the wars and
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:07pm.
We must remember the wars and strife that Saul went through.
That's because the straw-man doesn't work
Submitted by c5then on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:22pm.
The primary "goal" of Marxism is to "fix" the class system by equalizing everything. However when there are really no classes, it requires them to be manufactured, thus the progressive income tax system that breaks people up into separate groups and the favorite media terms of "blue-collar" and "white-collar". The Marxists/Progressives/Liberals have been trying to re-introduce the class system into America for about 100 years now. It works to a certain extent, fooling about 20-30% of the population but not on a consistent basis. It requires an economic crisis to work even that well. So in good times we almost never hear about it and in recessions it gets trotted out to try and stoke the jealousies of the weak-minded and petty. Most Americans however are smart enough to realize that they are striving to become rich themselves and to demonize those who have gotten there before them really doesn't increase their chances on achieving their goals.
Interestingly, every time that Marxism has been tried (whether in the form of socialism or communism) it doesn't equalize the classes by pulling everybody up, it does so, temporarily, by pulling everybody down and creating a society where the vast majority are poor and without basic needs while a very small political ruling elite are very well off and basically a self-created aristocracy. That is the reason why people who crave power and wealth are drawn to Marxism.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
I sent this to Blonde this AM
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:55pm.
Bless me father for I have sinned.
What did you do my son?
I pulled for the FSU Criminoles last night.
How could you do that against my school?
Well, I can't stand Lou Holtz and his bragging about ND. I've had enough.
I'm going to have to consult the Pontiff on this one, it is truly bad.
So who are you pulling for in
Submitted by lsudolemite on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:00pm.
So who are you pulling for in the Urban Meyer bowl?
GO BUCKS!!
Submitted by irishguy on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:35pm.
GO BUCKS!!
GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 4:03pm.
Baby
I second that emotion!
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 4:26pm.
GO GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!
And Irish, you're now on the enemy list until after the game! :)
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
chasing your dreams
Submitted by MidAmerica on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 12:58pm.
The Marxist dream of a classless and egalitarian society is only desirable when it's in a dream. Because when it's put into practice in real life it becomes a nightmare.
Sorry, but class warfare
Submitted by mattm on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 2:20pm.
Sorry, but class warfare works. Class warfare is how the democrats got Bush I to cave on taxes; how they got BJ Clinton elected, how they neutered Newt, how they got Bush II to drop social security reform and let Mr. Chappaquiddick write the education bill; how they won congress in 2006 and the white house in 2008 and how they are currently holding much more power than they would be if class warfare didn't work.
Remember, the indoctrination starts on PBS in all the little kiddie shows and goes right through to graduate school. This indoctrination is so successful that a total moron without one shred of credibility, Paul Krugman, can get a PHD and write for the NYT claiming that "[Obama] has done more to rein in long-run deficits than any previous president."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/opinion/18krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
Class warfare works. Don't be surprised if the dems keep the white house and gain control of congress in 2012. I hope it doesn't happen, but I'm afraid that the libs have so thoroughly brainwashed the general public that they will ultimately get their way and America will die an untimely death.
Cops raid Butterball plant
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 2:20pm.
Cops raid Butterball plant looking for abused turkeys. Sub-headline should read "120 undocumented workers help them look."
I thought she was going to
Submitted by amyshulk on Sun, 01/01/2012 - 1:34am.
I thought she was going to either throw up or start bawling!!!
Ronald Reagan
Ever see a mummy choke?
Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 2:55pm.
@ 0:12, snarky Mummy receives bad news from Ramses II on secret Mummy-headset, doesn't handle it well.
How do you say 'homina homina homina' in Old Egyptian?
John Edwards on class warfare?
Submitted by CO2Maker on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:18pm.
I think you're talking about the wrong kind of class, the kind Pony-hair doesn't have.
This is interesting
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:22pm.
MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA
Class warfare does too work, and has been for some time
Submitted by Dave. on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 3:58pm.
This country has spent about $16 Trillion on various social programs over the decades - most all of which were brought about by people illegally using government to take money away from the people that earned it and give it to them.
Incidentally, that just happens to be what our "official" national debt is said to be.
Just sayin,' that's all.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Obama delays request for $1.2T debt limit increase
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 4:42pm.
By JULIE PACE | Associated Press
"The debt limit is the amount the government can borrow to finance its operations. It has soared because the government has run record deficits over the past decade. The borrowed money has helped pay for two wars, stimulate the nation's economy after the worst recession since the Great Depression and keep intact broad tax cuts initiated during the Bush administration."
WHY THE WORKING MAN SHOULD VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Submitted by reelman46 on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 8:43pm.
WHY THE WORKING MAN SHOULD VOTE REPUBLICAN
Republicans often cut taxes so you take home more for your family.
Republicans rarely force workers into a union (that spends dues on growing socialismn while drawing huge salaries).
Republicans are not ashamed of family or faith or marriage or patriotism or refusing to stop unborn heartbeats.
Republicans will defend America instead of bowing and being kicked around.
Republicans will say encouraging things in public about America and Americans.
Republicans know the basic Laws of Economics (dems only know socialism buys votes)
Republicans believe in freedom and not bashing America/business/some group every month of the year.
Republicans are not afraid to answer questions (or show) at meetings…(they do not run from mics like dems).
Republicans are much less likely to want judges to create new laws or ignore the Constitution.
Republicans supported congressional term limits (overturned by a democrat congressman lawsuit)
Republicans would put proceedings on C-Span/read bills…(instead of lying that they would like dems).
Republicans will carefully explain to any voter why smaller gov-meant, lower taxes and traditional values are best for America…(try getting any democrat to defend the opposite of that…which they believe in).
Republicans are not too scared to go on CNN and such while the dems run from FNC….think about that a good while.
Republicans don’t need distractions, lies and smears to sell conservatism…just logic and historical fact.
Republicans are not taken advantage of by foreign thug leaders nearly as much as dems…(aka the fawners).
Republicans widely support balanced budgets, low debt and energy independence.
Republicans don’t seal everything from their birth certificate to college from voters…like dems
Republicans believe the federal gov-meant is not always the answer because every major program passed has proven to be 3-9x more expensive then the “selling price” to the voters (for starters).
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish<
We weren't close,
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 9:33pm.
in fact we had spoken in nearly 12 years, but I hope he finally finds peace. Thank you for the good things, Dad.
Damn Bob,
Submitted by Boudin on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 9:37pm.
Real sorry to hear, we will be thinking about you.
Bob, So sorry to hear about
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:20pm.
Bob,
So sorry to hear about your loss. My prayers are with you and your family.
bk,
Submitted by Dave. on Sat, 12/31/2011 - 2:03am.
Sorry to learn of your loss.
Close or not, the loss of a parent has to sting - at least at some level.
Prayers for you and your family.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Condolences BK
Submitted by Denny Crane on Sat, 12/31/2011 - 8:03am.
May he rest in peace. And God's blessing on you and your family.
We Are The 53%
bkeyser
Submitted by amyshulk on Sun, 01/01/2012 - 1:41am.
When my grandmother died, I wrote her a letter. That helped me to clarify what I loved about her, and enabled me to let her go. Your medium is art, and that is lovely BK.
Ronald Reagan
Bob...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 10:49pm.
When you think
About your dad,
Remember the good
And not the bad.
Wounds this world
Could never heal,
The next world
Surely will.
God bless you and your dad.
Jer
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 12/30/2011 - 11:02pm.
Bringing a tear to my eyes and not because of your liberal views. That was very sweet.
BK, check your pm's.
Jer,
Submitted by Dave. on Sat, 12/31/2011 - 2:14am.
Thanks for posting that.
Seriously.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Class warfare and the truth about taxes.
Submitted by Denny Crane on Sat, 12/31/2011 - 9:06am.
I have been looking quite deeply into the tax issue and have found some amazing things. there is a continuing argument about people paying their "fair share". First of all this notion of their fair share is completely bogus, simply because taxes should exist for 1 thing and 1 thing only, and that is to provide needed revenue for legitimate government functions. Fair share would be a simple flat tax with a single deduction of an exact dollar amount per person, but we know that will never happen.
First of all everyone knows basics about the top 1% pay 36% of income taxes, top 10% pay 70% and the top 50% pay 97% of income taxes. On the other side the progressives argue that it doesn't include payroll taxes or the regressive state and local taxes. So I have looked deeper into this as well. On the Federal level when payroll, corporate, and excise taxes included the breakdown is as follows.
Bottom 20% pay 4.0%
Next 20% pay 10.6%
Middle 20% pay 14.3%
Second to the top pay 17.4%
The top 20% pay 25.1%
Also note that the top quintile is the only group that has a higher tax liability than share of income in the USA.
But the progressive will still argue that it doesn't include those nasty state and local taxes which can be regressive (which of course the federal government has no control over and shouldn't be making policy based on it anyway). I have even seen idiots argue that the poor pay 40% of their income in taxes while the rich only pay 15% (although they can never provide any proof of that) So I found a left leaning site that breaks down taxes by state. Quite interesting and yes overall it's regressive but not very much, and added into the federal taxes, overall it's still progressive.
Breakdown of state and local taxes by quintile.
Bottom 20% (under 18K/year) pay 10.9%
Next quintile (18K to 33K) pay 10%
Middle quintile (33K to 54K) pay 9.7%
Next quintile (54K to 90K) pay 9.3%
Top quintile broken down even further 80% to 95% (90K to 185K) pay 8.8%
95% to 99% (185K to 476K) pay 7.8%
Top 1% (over 476K) pay 6.4%
I went out and found a left wing report by the U of California that is a full blown essay on wealth and power in America. But even they admit that taxes are progressive. You have to go over half way down the page to find it but there it is, a nice graph showing that the richer a person is the higher their overall tax burden (as a percentage of their income) is. When all taxes (not just income taxes) are taken into account, the lowest 20% of earners (who average about $12,400 per year), paid 16.0% of their income to taxes in 2009; and the next 20% (about $25,000/year), paid 20.5% in taxes. the middle 20% (about $33,400/year) give 25.3% of their income to various forms of taxation, and the next 20% (about $66,000/year) pay 28.5%. the next 10% (about $100,000/year) pay 30.2% of their income as taxes; the next 5% ($141,000/year) dole out 31.2% of their earnings for taxes; and the next 4% ($245,000/year) pay 31.6% to taxes. As for the top 1% -- those who take in $1.3 million per year on average -- they pay 30.8% of their income to taxes, which is a little less than what the 9% just below them pay.
As a side note, any secretary that pays a higher rate than their millionaire boss is probably making well over a 100K a year (as they should be)
Happy New Year everyone. 2012 HERE WE COME!!!
We Are The 53%
Thank you all
Submitted by bkeyser on Sat, 12/31/2011 - 11:49am.
for your kind words.
NB is a community of very fine people, which is why I shared that information only with you.
-Bob