Open Thread: The Rising Cost of College
The rising cost of college has put a damper on many students' educational plans, but in an effort to continue attracting students, many schools have begun turning their campuses into miniature resorts. From upscale dining facilities to rock climbing walls, it turns out that some of the costs of college have nothing to do with learning, and much of the bill is still left for the taxpayers to foot.
Check out a video of Andrew S. Rosen, author of Change.edu, explaining the costs of college after the break, and let us know your thoughts in the comments.
Click here for the video of Rosen explaining the costs of college.
James Taranto also parallels the college bubble to the housing bubble:
It costs a lot of money, so much that most people have to go into debt to buy it. It has considerable intrinsic value, but it is also understood to be an investment. And it is a status symbol--indeed, almost a necessary condition for achieving middle-class status.
Its acquisition by as wide a swath of the population is widely seen as a social good. Thus the government heavily subsidizes it through tax incentives and other means. That, however, creates an artificial demand that drives prices up and, in a vicious circle, spurs demands for more subsidies. Efforts to make it more easily acquired for minorities, who by objective standards tend to be less qualified, compound the problem.
In the current economy, it has turned out to be considerably less valuable than promised. As a result, many Americans are under water, with debts that they will not be able to pay off easily.
What is it? A house, but that's the obvious answer. We're thinking of a college education. The similarities between the housing bubble and the higher-ed bubble are remarkable, aren't they?
What do you think?
- NB Staff's blog
- Login to post comments
Comments
counter terrorist training
Submitted by Agnostic on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:31am.
The current administration has decided that references to Islam and Muslims during counter terrorist/awareness training are insensitive so it shall be pulled from curriculums.
College is not just overrated; it's sometimes harmful
Submitted by gopcongress on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:42am.
I have never been an advocate to "college scholarships" being an overall GOOD thing. In most cases, the instructors are socialists, with virtually no conservative tenured professors. In addition, with increased state-paid tuition for "deserving" students, there is no incentive to lower costs for education, so we have a perfect storm of a subsidized advancement of socialism.
I would like to see the "scholarship industry" tailored to more pertinent schools and institutions, such as scientific and business pursuits. In addition, we need to rethink the need to have a degree compared to the ability to perform in the workplace in many situations, as well as start migrating the university system from a generalized education experience to that of specialized, job-enhancement skills. But without the impetus that would make all this occur, the scholarship industry must be radically transformed before costs come in line with value for education.
"The news and truth are not the same thing." -Walter Lippmann (1889-1974) FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER
Education vs Workplace
Submitted by Gothampc on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:46am.
"In addition, we need to rethink the need to have a degree compared to the ability to perform in the workplace in many situations"
Unfortunately the workplace is a law unto itself. A white man can get all the right degrees, do all the proper on-the-job training and everything else that is necessary for success, but if he's not a black woman, he's not getting the job.
gopcongress
Submitted by hydrodynDM on Sat, 10/22/2011 - 4:33pm.
I think that the idea behind a generalized college education is that it has two benefits.
The first being that such an education acts as a test for the student. Taking and passing classes in subjects which don't relate directly to your major or your area of interest shows (ideally) that you have the ability to gain proficient knowledge in topics which you might, fundamentally, have no interest in. In other words, you show that you can do what is expected of you whether you want to actually do it or not. I think many would see this as a positive trait.
And in general, you can view getting a degree as an achievement which demonstrates that you have the maturity and focus to commit to a multi-year project and see it through.
The second benefit is the - perhaps dated - view that a person with a college degree is expected to be, in some sense, a well educated person with a basic understanding of a wide variety of topics. The usefulness of this is, of course, open to debate.
I'll grant that the above is an idealization. I'm sure everyone here knows or has met college graduates who appear to have learned absolutely nothing in their time at school. And it's also obvious that you can acquire the above skills without going to college.
Also, I think trade schools are basically the types of schools which basically do what you are talking about. It's a shame that so many young people have been convinced that they have to go to college when, based on their ultimate goals, a trade school would have served them better (and probably cost them a lot less).
Let's pay for some more edmucation of this woman
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:56am.
Because she obviously needs it.
I'm sorry.....I was wrong about Corrine Brown and GO GATA. I never thought I'd see a worse example of public education. But I was wrong.
Obviously, I don't think we should waste one more dime of taxpayer money on the galactically stupid, and this woman qualifies.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Good Lawd, J
Submitted by Dave. on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:32pm.
LOL - Yeah, we've got some real rocket scientists in this town. :-^)
Scary.
-dave
Vote for the American in November
They vote too!!!
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:42pm.
They vote too!!!
That reminded me. I forgot to set up the DVR for Rocket City Rednecks.
Wha?
Submitted by stratman on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 4:26pm.
I tuned out after a few seconds. Could this be her boyfriend?
To be honest, your woman is not uncommon in Cleveland and, I'm sure, many other places around the country, especially in Democrat strangleholds.
Dems love abortion so.......
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 8:09pm.
Maybe we could convince them to retroactively abort the galactically stoopid?
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Good evening Blonde
Submitted by cocodrie on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 8:25pm.
I insist on helping list the names There will be a real struggle listing the first thousand or so sorted in order of IQ.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Solyndra on Wheels?
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:59am.
A company that got over 500 million in porkulus money is building "green" cars in Finland.
For a brief moment the world is not upside-down
Submitted by dbo on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:02am.
Two thumbs up to Hertz for throwing away political correctness and firing 26 Muslims who work at the Seattle-Tacoma airport. Two thumbs down to Teamsters local 117 for filing a unfair labor practices complaint.
Colleges are simply supplying
Submitted by Apache on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:09am.
Colleges are simply supplying the market for a "college degree". But I see little emphasis on the type of degree. The kids are told they can be anything they want to be as long as they get an education. Some don't even decide until they are half way through college. But all are told they must have a college education. The result is that they often get worthless degrees or degrees that would require a doctorite to make money. If your degree sets you up for an occupation that won't pay for itself in five years than you failed somewhere. A vocational student is smarter than you. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. Instead of pushing the generic "college degree" we should push the occupations that require such a degree. Math, science, engineering. Simply saying "college educated" has no meaning. They will provide you a degree for a fee. No challenge there. But the kind of degree is the important part.
Well said, Apache.
Submitted by UpNorth on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:54pm.
Over at TAH, they had a post about some of the great unwashed at OWS Flea Bag parties. One of the young women complained that she couldn't find a job, yet she had degrees in Poli-Sci and International Relations. And, was "fluent" in French and Mandarin. Not even addressing the idea of a westerner being "fluent" in Mandarin, what did she expect, she was going to be hired out the door as the assistant undersecretary for international affairs at the State Department?
Then I clicked the link and went to her blog. It was, ya know, like totally awesome, and like, it was,you know, so cool to be in, like, China. Apparently blowing probably $250K of daddy's money at a private college and a trip to China, to "study", wasn't enough to teach her that once you post something out on the intertubes, employers can see it, and, in fact, seek out prospective employees and anything they post about themselves.
And where is all of this tuition revenue going?
Submitted by drsamherman on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 8:51pm.
Universities and colleges are putting the squeeze on alumni like they are loan sharks. I used to give some money every year to both undergrad and med school alumni funds, but this year I stopped.
The medical school is charging $60 grand a year in tuition, fees and student dump-level housing. Roaches are free, of course. My undergraduate alma mater is charging $19 grand a year for in-state students for tuition, fees and room/board. Thank the Almighty my children are out of undergrad! My daughter and son are in grad school, but the cost of this is being borne by their employers subject to their tuition policies. Neither is actually paying anything net of their education benefits from work.
The room and board money is usually accounted for (I think) as a business enterprise, but the tuition seems to go into some double-secret fund that no one talks about or refers to in conversation. While I was out teaching at a medical school in Texas this week, I asked the one associate dean what happens to the state support money. He gave me this flabbergasted look and said, "We don't talk about the state subsidy!" Oh really? I am sure your students would love to know exactly how much of the state assistance actually benefits them. I am betting zero.
The rising cost of everything
Submitted by jon_torlin on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:30am.
It's not just the rising cost of college, it's the rising cost of everything, ever since the value of the dollar went down in the last few years.
-Jon
No class.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:50am.
Killing Gadaffi (or Quadophy, or Quote-Daffy) is a good thing, but Hillary's reaction is savage.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20123348-503544.html
Attila the Hun didn't stand around and laugh at the people he killed. If they were warriors, he would often honor them. If they were cowards, he would simply move on to the next target.
To sit in a studio and yuck it up with a reporter over a battlefield death is low class.
The man was a terror, he was a dictator, he was brutal, but he was a warrior to the end. He was ripped apart and beaten by a mob and shot in the head. Our troops don't do that. They kill and move on. To laugh and support mobs who do is no class.
“Occupation Movement” targeted my town!!!
Submitted by Grumpy in Arizona on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:02pm.
Last night I attended a local version of an OWS protest… Well, it wasn’t so much of a protest as it was our local “Occupy Oktoberfest” where the city closes down the main street and a bunch of classic car enthusiasts display their great old vehicles (including old fire trucks) and where the city encourages vendors to sell brats and stuff while people get to walk around and have a good time listening to local musicians perform.
No violence to report – but one “booth” was selling “Three-Bean Salad”... which is so obviously racist on so many levels.
Note: Full Disclosure - I was there representing the “AATL” (Arizona Anti Tofu League)… which has one active member at this time…
- Grump :o)
A little sports
Submitted by ricklail on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:12pm.
A fake referee stopped the UCLA-Arizona game last night. Then pulled his clothes off and streaked across the field.
Here's video of the streaker, Rick
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:54pm.
Pretty funny that he ran on the field as a ref, though.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
The greedy Marxist professors
Submitted by forest on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:15pm.
The greedy Marxist professors and bloated administrations have been raising their rates faster than healthcare costs have been going up. Somebody needs to pay for those Volvos, NPR tote bags and Democrat campaign contributions.
forest
Submitted by hydrodynDM on Sat, 10/22/2011 - 5:00pm.
Yes, us greedy Marxist professors.
Guess how much influence I have over my salary and benefits.
That's right - none.
As with anyone else in any other profession, I applied for a job at a number of places and accepted the one which I thought offered the best salary and benefits.
If, today, I walked up to my boss and demanded a huge greedy raise he'd laughed me out of his office.
But I don't know - maybe it's different where you work. How much influence do you have over your salary and benefits?
And out of curiosity - what would you consider to be an acceptable non-greedy salary for college professors?
spew alert (Meeshell - fashion queen)
Submitted by SouthJersey1953 on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:34pm.
...and they were serious: "Mrs. Obama is a real style icon"
http://thestir.cafemom.com/beauty_style/127602/5_style_tips_from_michelle
So she checks the weather before she decides what to wear?
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:41pm.
And they think this makes her a fashion guru? This administration is certainly lowering the bar for absolutely EVERYTHING!
Duh!
Submitted by aposematic on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:42pm.
Of course the costs of education is going up faster than a Chinese rocket; education at all levels are run by Marxists.
Remember the Chinook Shootdown and loss of 30+....
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:45pm.
...of America's finest warriors?
Here's a little more information on that "incident", from Allen West. And it's as bad as BKeyser & I feared.
We are a little more than one month away from the idiot Super Committee's "big compromise", else the automatic cuts (north of $600 BN cut to the military) kick into effect.
Time to pay attention, and start calling / faxing / e-mailing your Congressional Representatives.
We cannot allow the liberal dream of killing the military via budget cuts to come to fruition.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Not sure it's really that dire
Submitted by Model850 on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 4:01pm.
While I think the whole so-called super committee was one of the bigger lunacies to come out of the debt ceiling debacle I'm not sure the threat of those automatic cuts is as threatening as they appear on the surface.
If the automatic cuts are triggered, Congress could still take all of 2012 — an election year — to rescind or change any of those spending cuts.
We still need to keep an eye on these half-witted dopes, and we certainly need to let our voices be heard by our respective congress-critters, but there may be a lot more sizzle than steak here.
Bachmann troubles?
Submitted by jon_torlin on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 1:26pm.
Just saw a breaking headline on Fox saying "Michele Bachmann's entire paid staff in New Hampshire Reportedly Has Quit." No details yet.
Anyone have any ideas?
-Jon
Duriing this whole "Occupy"
Submitted by inquiringmind on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 1:56pm.
Duriing this whole "Occupy" movement I have thought those kids who are complaning about their college loans are in the wrong location. They need to be standing outside their college president's office screaming about the bloated cost of thier education.
It's not Wall Street's or the bank's fault they are in debt so much. It's the out of control tenured professors fault as well as numerous other "college" costs.
And I seem to remember hearing that the government was taking that business ( college loans) away from the banks. Mainly so the gov't could make the loans and reap the interest payments.
So again, all you "Occupy" losers, you need to be standing at the gates to your college not Wall Street!
You want fries with that?
Submitted by mom_rox on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:05pm.
US News and World Report is famous for its college rankings, but it would be more helpful to have employment data one year after graduating. List the university, major, tuition and the job description along with salary and any benefits.
For an enlightening and entertaining book on the subject, I recommend Andrew Ferguson's Crazy U.
mom_rox
Submitted by hydrodynDM on Sat, 10/22/2011 - 4:47pm.
I think in theory, that's a great idea. However, I don't know if it would work in practice.
It assumes that the college can actually track down their graduates and that those graduates are willing to give that information to their alma mater.
I also think any information a school got would be biased toward graduates who have found a job - and so might be more inclined to brag about their success - than graduates who are still looking for a job and maybe have gone back to living with their parents.
...for a refreshing new college, check this out
Submitted by vrwc13 on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 3:30pm.
Patrick Henry College in Virgina
The Mission of Patrick Henry College is to prepare Christian men and women who will lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values and fidelity to the spirit of the American founding. Educating students according to a classical liberal arts curriculum, and training them with apprenticeship methodology, the College provides academically excellent baccalaureate level higher education with a biblical world view.
The Vision of Patrick Henry College is to aid in the transformation of American society by training Christian students to serve God and mankind with a passion for righteousness, justice and mercy, through careers of public service and cultural influence.
...btw if you Google map (satellite view) their property, it's shaped like a hand gun aimed at D.C.!
v
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne