Open Thread: Should Libya Extradite Lockerbie Bomber to U.S.?
Fred Lucas of NewsBusters sister site CNSNews.com is reporting today that Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney wants to see convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi extradited from Libya to the United States to face prosecution:
“What I’d like to do is have the Lockerbie bomber extradited from Libya,” Romney said at a campaign stop in Exeter, N.H., in response to a question on the matter. “This is a person responsible for killing Americans. The idea that he would be welcomed home as a hero in Libya is simply distasteful and disgusting and outrageous and I’d like him to be extradited and face justice at the hands of the United States.”
The Scottish government released Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi from his life sentence in the summer of 2009. He was convicted on 270 counts of murder, conspiracy to murder, and violating British-aviation legislation after PanAm flight 103 was destroyed at 31,000 feet, 38 minutes after departing Heathrow Airport in London bound for New York City.
Megrahi is reportedly in a coma and "close to death" but we've heard that before.
What say you? Should Obama administration officials lean heavily on rebel representatives to authorize a transfer of Megrahi to U.S. custody?
UPDATE: The New York Times is reporting that Libyan rebel leaders have ruled out extraditing Megrahi. Is this a troubling sign, regardless of whether the Obama administration had any plans on seeking extradition, given that effectively it proves Libya's rebels are perfectly content with harboring a convicted terrorist.
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Under what charge?
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:12am.
The Lockerbie bomber was tried and convicted in a Scottish court. Part of his sentence was served, only to have him released on "humanitarian" grounds (A ridiculous premise to be sure.) The fact that the UK released him under a cloud of London-BP-Gaddafi coercion does not in and of itself make him a subject for extradition, except perhaps back to Scotland (depending on the conditions of his humanitarian release).
At another level, I've seen no evidence that the US has an extradition treaty with the newly recognized government of Libya, which therefore has no legal obligation to comply.
Unless we have additional charges to indict him on, I don't see how anyone extradites him to the US.
The Libyan rebels wouldn't
Submitted by Ken Shepherd on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:13am.
The Libyan rebels wouldn't have succeeded if not for U.S. air cover and formal recognition of their government could be predicated upon some preconditions, including extraditing al-Megrahi.
It's not so much a legal question as one of political will. Granted, it's unlikely Megrahi would survive the length of the trial, but still, it would be a signal that the United States doesn't tolerate terrorism and reserves the right to prosecute it.
Ken, the US has already recognized the TNC as the . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:29am.
. . . legitimate government of Libya, so unless someone has knowledge of a pre-condition for his extradition or even handing him over to us, I'd say we're starting from scratch in trying to get him.
I'm sympathetic to getting custody of him and executing him, but there is still the basic question: Since he was already convicted of the crime and served a sentence (albeit truncated), what charges can we try him on without violating double jeopardy?
I guess they could use the old tried-and-true method of charging him with violating the civil rights of the American passengers on Pan Am 103, but I don't think that's a capital offense, and I doubt the Libyans would extradite him for that.
They might look the other way while SEAL Team Six goes in a kills him.
No treaty required.
Submitted by hbnolikeee on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:16am.
Help is supposed to be a two way street. We have spend how much to help Libya's rebels? The math is simple. Give us the bomber or we pull out of NATO and good luck. End of story. No need to play. Simple mathematics at work here.
Shwack him instead
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:55am.
I'm all in favor with pulling out of NATO, but I don't see how that influences the TNC. :-)
We've already done the dirty work for them; they do owe us a lot. But even if they hand Megrahi over to us, how do Obama and Holder rationalize putting him on trial? If there are no new charges, the Federal courts will let him go.
Far better if we locate him and kill him, but even there, the international community upon whose support Obama appears so reliant, will condemn it. Afterall, to them, he already served his sentence for the murders.
That's why I don't see it happening through extradition, which is what Romney was talking about. Snatch-and-go might work, but then what do you do with him?
Don't bring him here. Hunt him down and kill him.
How we influence is simple, three part dance.
Submitted by hbnolikeee on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:35pm.
No money, no military equipment and intel. Those two jewels, once pulled mean that the rebels may not maintain their current position. Without the US, NATO is pretty limp to say the least. So if we go, so go the rebels.
They're either with us or against us and by refusing this request, their fates should be sealed as well.
influence is no longer needed
Submitted by Agnostic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:51pm.
Tripoli is held by the rebels with leadership from al-Qaeda and a former militant leader that led/fought in Afghanistan before being caught and then released by US forces. These 'rebels' and terrorist are now armed not only with everything given to them by the West but also with the full armories of the disposed regime of Gaddafi. They have enough control to keep out the NATO recognized leadership and ship them in and out for photo ops to meet the demands to release the frozen assets of Gaddafi to the 'Rebel' forces. Once the assets are released there will be little reason for the NATO recognized leadership and they will either be killed or used for political purposes.
The Western forces are now the outsiders in this operation and if they are not careful they will find out how well equipped 'al-Qaeda in Libya' currently stands.
What does him being tried...
Submitted by almostacowboy on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:16am.
in a Scottish court have to do with him being tried in a U.S. Court? I don't believe "double-jeopardy" applies in this case.
I'm not a lawyer, but I did spend last night in a Holiday Inn Express. :-)
I'm no lawyer either, but as I recall . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:20pm.
. . . a pre-condition to Libya's surrender of the two terrorists was that (a) they would be tried by a Scottish court, and (b) the venue of the trial would be a neutral country (the Netherlands). The US agreed to this because it was the only way to get them on trial anywhere.
Considering that arrangement, I don't think international law permits a retrial on the same charges, and we all know how sensitive our Nobel laureate President is to the rule of international law.
I could very well be wrong; maybe an attorney can clarify for us.
I clarified it below Mr. Galvanic.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 8:22am.
How about joining me in demanding Megrahi be returned to the prison he belongs since releasing him violated the UN security council resolution the United States was signatory to.
Sadly, Galvanic is correct.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 8:18am.
Galvanic: Unless we have additional charges to indict him on, I don't see how anyone extradites him to the US.
...the United States and the United Kingdom were the two sponsors of the United Nations Security Council resolution that set up the Lockerbie trial at Camp Zeist. That resolution required all member states, including the US and the UK to cooperate in that process and to respect its outcome.
However, how about a little outrage Mr. Galvanic? The man served only 11 days for every man, woman, and child he killed.
Instead of asking why he should be brought here, how about demanding he be returned to jail in Scotland where he belongs.
Here's the mystery. In August 1998 the US and UK governments invited the United Nations Security Council to approve an initiative under which the two Libyans suspected of involvement in the Lockerbie bombing would be tried in a special court in the Netherlands under Scottish law. The Security Council duly approved the initiative in a formal resolution passed under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, meaning that the resolution has binding force on all UN member states under international law. But the relevant point is this: the US-UK letter setting out the initiative, as approved by the mandatory UN resolution, stipulates in terms that if convicted, the suspects "will serve their sentence in the United Kingdom" - in practice meaning in Scotland, since all the proceedings were to be governed by Scottish law.
The UN security council resolution stipulated he serve the term in prison. The FULL TERM.
UN security council resolutions should carry the full weight of law in legal theory. We are bound by them as is the U.K.
Return him to the prison he rightly belongs in.
No extradition!
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:12am.
However, since we're already dropping munitions in the area.....
Me too, Phil.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:17am.
I say put a missile in his IV. Maybe two or three. Think of it as an act of mercy for a suffering, dying old man in pain.
Collateral damage? What collateral damage?
Not until....
Submitted by almostacowboy on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:14am.
January 20, 2013. Otherwise he'll have 36 (or more) Holder DOJ lawyers defending him in NYC.
what a piece of... w*rk.. Holder is...
Submitted by NevadanConservative on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:40am.
Him and the rest of the Cabinet will no doubt be out of the country election day, with full wallets, a return ticket back to the US just in case, and on soils that do not honor reciprocal extradition, like St. Kitts.
But in essence, it is correct to assume that that bastid will never see the interior of an American jail cell.
Dammit.
NVCon
This terrorist killed
Submitted by rbosque on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:22am.
This terrorist killed Americans on an American plane.
Send in a sniper, no need to try him twice, end of story.
Why bother?
Submitted by Red Jeep on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:21am.
It will cost a ton of money, and then the Libs will want to give him citizen rights, and execution will be out of the question.
Let's hire a country to kidnap him and slowly torture him to death.
Trial Would Be Costly + He'd Probably Not Survive Til Sentencing
Submitted by Beresford on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:37am.
So I say pick him up in an airplane bound for the U.S. and somewhere over Scotland....push him out.
Applause!
Submitted by Red Jeep on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:42am.
!
I wonder
Submitted by bobbys on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:44am.
I wonder if he has this idea to cover up for being missing in action during the debt ceiling fiasco.
Mr Romney that's when we needed you to step up to the plate, Not that this is not a issue especially to the families but you were no where to be found when this went down...
Extradition is a waste of time
Submitted by Burnside on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:50am.
It's a waste of time at this point. He wouldn't survive being moved to his front door. Anyway, there's a special place in hell reserved for him. Let him suffer down there and pay for all the lives he snuffed out. Payback's a bitch and his is coming.
Send in the CIA
Submitted by syvyn11 on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:53am.
and retire the SOB! Send him to the Devil.
Extridite the Lockerbie Bomber?
Submitted by NVRAT on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:01pm.
Hell no, Just pay the rebels a Million Bucks or a couple of Russian Tanks to hang him. I`m sure they would be obliged to do it.
→ Haul him back here
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:12pm.
It's outrageous what the Lockerbie Bomber did to those Bridges in Vermont. It was like watching Clint Eastwood and Meryl Streep being dragged off into the water all over again.
Where is Rev. Jackson when you need him
Submitted by Agnostic on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 12:53pm.
as blacks are killed by those oppressed 'rebels'.
Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others
Where is the line drawn?
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 2:07pm.
If it's OK, even by the standards of the most liberal President ever to occupy the Oval Office, to send a hit squad to take out Osama Bin Laden, why isn't it OK to send a similar team to go kill this guy? Do you have to be involved in killing thousands of innocent Americans instead of just hundreds?
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
I Would Like to Extradite President Downgrade to Libya...
Submitted by Motormouth KOS on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 2:54pm.
Maybe he can join the Muslim Brotherhood and get back to what he does best...
Community Organizing
The Obamination... A crisis leading to a catastrophe..(please donate to MRC)
Send him for prosecution at the state level in Texas.
Submitted by drsamherman on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 3:27pm.
We know how to deal with his kind.
Why So Glum, Michelle?
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 4:04pm.
Methinks there is trouble in Paradise.
Michelle is not thrilled that her own private plane has been taken away.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Now that's what I'm talking about
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 4:15pm.
I was expecting something like this, all those things that were pointed out were on Drudge. Those separate flights were not for security, that's for sure, especially the 4 hour difference on the same day and everything else, especially the iPod and etc.
One thing's for sure, if his polls continue to plummet and I expect they will (they did this weekend, higest disapproval rating so far), I wonder how long it'll be before Moochelle decides to move out of the WH and away from Barry?
The article mentions those little trips that cost US an arm and a leg(I don't believe for a second that she paid for any of it) as something showing that they aren't doing things together as much. The only thing I wish would happen though is that if she is doing a separation thing, I wish she would do it less expensively....like just simply move out and go back to Chicago.
-Jon
Oh yeah! NM Governor renews license for CHL!
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 4:06pm.
Governor Perry isn't the only pistol packing governor, New Mexico's Governor Martinez is also someone with a concealed weapons license and DAMN she really knows how to shoot! I like this woman! (same way I liked Palin knowing how to shoot like she did and did very well too)
NM Gov gets perfect score
Check out the short video that comes with this. Make sure you have the volume on, the ping of bullets hitting the targets is SWEEEET music.
-Jon
We got the wrong damn president
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 8:26pm.
We should have had this.
Instead, we got this.
That pretty much explains it all.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
You'll like this: Boys will
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 8:45pm.
You'll like this: Boys will be boys
rick,
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 7:01am.
Yeah, we got "punked" fer sure.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
On again off again Obama's war
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 8:28pm.
The son in law leaves in the morning for Avianno, Italy to support Obama's war. Just last week they were on their way to Afganisthan and then on to Japan. I called him while ago and wished him well. He saids they were only going to be ther for about a month. Still I would have thought Obama's war was over when Momar left.
The 3 day plan worked out
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 08/29/2011 - 8:48pm.
Last Thursday we made our plans ahead of Hurricane Irene to survive on what we had. The grocery stores and gas station in and around New Bern and Havelock began to come back to life. My wife was able to get ice and gas and a few groceries. There were no meats. We had a freezer full of stuff. If we couldn't have got ice we'd have lost a lot of the stuff out there. My ice cream got wiped out but every thing else made it.
The whole town here is still without power. No gas, no groceries because they don't have power. The power company is still saying Thursday at 11:45 PM to have power restored. Until till they do I'll be at work at nights.
The bottom line it can be done if you don't waste our food stamp money on junk food. Buy cold cuts and bread enough for 3 days. Put it on ice. Buying a bunch of junk food and drinks to have a party is not going to do it.
Rise in mental illness due to 'climate change'
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 7:05am.
Yep, I would say there is a link between mental illness and climate change, too, but not the kind they are thinking of.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Who is doing the diagnosis?
Submitted by drsamherman on Fri, 09/02/2011 - 12:11am.
A well-trained psychiatrist is far less willing to put an "environmental dysphoria" diagnosis, which incidentally is NOT covered under a DSM-IV(TR) manifest, than a soft, fuzzy type just aching for billable hours.
I don't buy the epidemic of depression, anxiety and other mood disorders being linked in any causal way to AGW. I do believe that the increase in mood disorders is due to a combination of things, but primarily linked to a bad economy and sputtering attempts at recovery. Considering the large carbon tax the Neo-Leninist government of Australia is enacting, I can see why Aussies would be depressed. If I had to live under that kind of moronic economic policy, I would be depressed too. As it is, I am treating enough Americans who are depressed over the incompetent messiah wannabe in the WH.