Open Thread: The Fate of Muammar Gadhafi
Last night, following the rebel capture of one of Col. Muammar Gadhafi's sons, the one-time heir apparent, and the surrender of another of his sons, massive celebrations erupted in Tripoli, the capital of Libya. Rumors also swirled on the fate of Gadhafi, some saying he had been shot, captured, or escaped to Algeria.
As a rebel spokesman told the Washington Times of the uprising in Tripoli, "Gadhafi's troops just melted away. They left their uniforms in the streets and slipped into civilian gear...We were very surprised by the little resistance. It remains to be seen if Gadhafi has anything up his sleeve, but I think it is over." What do you think is the fate of Gadhafi? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
According to the Washington Times, which spoke with a number of Libyan rebels,
Earlier Sunday, rebels advanced on Tripoli from the west and east, while “sleeper cells” in the capital rose up and seized control of neighborhoods throughout the city.
The Obama administration predicted Col. Gadhafi ’s days are “numbered,” while European leaders called for him to surrender. NATO continued strikes against key targets and said the regime is “crumbling.”
Col. Gadhafi , who has resisted the rebellion for six months, appeared on state television to rally supporters. He claimed he was still in Tripoli and vowed to fight until the end. [...]
In the heart of the capital, Col. Gadhafi ’s stronghold for months, neighborhoods fell into rebel control in rapid succession.
Rebel sources told The Times that they controlled most of Tripoli by Sunday night. Souk al-Juma, Mansoura, Dahra and Al Sreem neighborhoods near downtown Tripoli were all under rebel control.
Do you think the rebellion forces are in the clear in Libya? Where do you think Gadhafi is?
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Comments
Gaddafi is irrelevent at this point
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:32am.
Whether he survives to continue an insurgency campaign in his strong areas, or flees, or is killed, the story now is about the rebels -- the TNC -- and the aftermath of Gaddafi's ouster.
Without reliable a genuine justice system, reliable law enforcement, or even knowledge on how to govern a country of rival tribes, it's the post-Gaddafi Libya that bears the attention.
- Who is really in charge of the TNC? Could a new Taliban-like regime come out on top?
- Without traditional institutions and/or a strong security force to assist, can they conduct fair and democratic elections?
- What happened to the $$$ we took from Gaddafi's accounts and gave to the TNC?
- Will the new Libyan government want foreign aid for 'nation-building?'
The Damascus scene at the conclusion of the film Lawrence of Arabia comes to mind.
Just a hunch
Submitted by IgnatzJFahrquar on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:34am.
He's on Martha's Vineyard
I heard Gadhafi was spotting
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:35am.
I heard Gadhafi was spotting working at Burger King in Kissimmee, Florida.
Where do I think MoMo is?
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:35am.
I think that he is on a private jet, on his way to Chicago to work with Barack Hussein Obama's reelection committee.
After the election, he can then move on to being a special consultant in the White House on the completion of the "Fundamental Change of the Country" Project.
1984
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:39am.
Bush attacks a sovereign country, legally: calls for Bush's impeachment
Obama attacks a sovereign country, with questionable legality: Obama is praised
Black is white
Freedom is slavery
Sound familiar?
For sure. I remember one of
Submitted by celator on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:49am.
For sure. I remember one of the themes of 1984 is that there is a mysterious war going on, and the brutal enemy must be defeated.
No one seems to know who the enemy is, what started the war or why the war is being waged. Yet, the citizens are informed via loudspeakers that the enemy is near, a battle somewhere was won, the enemy wants to destroy everything. To keep the enemy at bay, citizens are told they must sacrifice more, work harder, rely on the government more, not ask questions, etc.
Barack learned his lessons well.
At least we can stop randomly killing Libyans now
Submitted by lgeubank on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:46am.
Thank Heaven that's over. At least now we can stop blundering around like a huge retarded Frankenstein, bombing and wreaking destruction for no apparent reason.
The ouster of Col. Daffy is a huge victory for the hard-core...
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:55am.
...true-believing Jihadists - just like it was in Egypt.
This world is blindly marching right toward Armageddon, and doesn't even realize it.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Just one minor difference
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 11:14am.
There is one minor difference that was pointed out by John Bolton yesterday in discussing that very same thing.
Egypt has the Egyptian Military which is pretty much a separate entity that they wouldn't let the jihadists just come in and take control, thus offering some measure of stability(not much, I know) or things would have really gone to crap by now. What happens after the elections that they might hold remains to be seen, but they won't let themselves be controlled by anyone, it's a joint existence when you come right down to it.
Libya doesn't have any such thing. And what will work against the rebels is the rebels themselves. They are a hodge-podge group of people with no real central leadership, most notably with terrorists from different groups, Hezbollah, Al Qaida, and so on. It'll be like LA with a bunch of gang bangers that sooner or later they'll start declaring "turfs" and just like the various factions of Muslims not always liking each other, they are going to turn on each other.
Trading Qaddaffi for these terrorists is a no-win. If anything, I suspect there will be more instability once the partying stops after a couple of days and they go from shooting bullets into the air to shooting bullets at each other. There are new problems coming.
-Jon
It will be like the Drug Wars on a slow day!
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 11:38am.
Maybe Bambi and Eric the Red can get ATF to funnel some guns from Fast and Furious to Tripoli just to make it fair, and insure that the majority of "illegal weapons" in Libya are coming from the USA.
That way they can use the "information" to help push through more gun control legislation here.
Raht On, Raht On!
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:03pm.
Look at how well that's working out in Mexico.
For the life of me, I can't understand why F&F is being ignored, particularly by the rest of the House.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
exactly jon,
Submitted by Agnostic on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 11:29am.
That pressure that is being felt is the power vacuum being created by the current lack of any real plan by the majority. However, the vacuum will pull those who are willing to establish a government by any means possible and ultimately, without guidance, the power will be passed to the group ruthless enough to grab and hold power. In the process, enemies will be made and many will die.
It may not be the UN's or any one else's job to stabilize Libya even though the forces that brought down Qaddaffi were not strictly local either. Like the US, Libya now needs a strong and capable leader - I can only wish them luck as I don't see our prospects as exceptional and we live in relative peace and prosperity.
One other thing
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:04pm.
The rebels have Qaddaffi's son. You think he's going to get some kind of fair trial? I seriously doubt it, I suspect the rebels will exact Islam Justice on him and either hang him or decapitate him in front of the people within the next week or so once they arrange for a public spectacle showing.
I'll be surprised if anything else happens.
That guy is toast.
-Jon
one son captured
Submitted by Agnostic on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:17pm.
and the other surrendered I believe. A predictably violent end to their lives will end up sinking Libya in further violence as it will spark the all to historically familiar 'time for revenge' that follows so many exchanges of power.
I know...
Submitted by pcnav on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 11:35am.
He's got a job as a commentator on MSNBC. He begins next Monday.
International Relations czar---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 11:50am.
Wowzer.
MD
Best post I've seen today.
Submitted by Ruths husband Ben on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:20pm.
Congrats. You managed to cram irony, sarcasm, and poetic justice into one teeny weeny sentence. I stand in awe (if I wasn't sitting at my computer and too lazy to stand up).
-Ben
He's down south with Chavez.
Submitted by jessieH on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:17pm.
He's down south with Chavez.
Kadaffi's Gold
Submitted by LCT688 on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:04pm.
At present there are at least two other events on the horizon that attention may turn too now that the logistic capabilities of supporting the so-called rebels in Libya can be freed up.
The first and seemingly most immediate would be Syria, with both the President and Secretary of State Clinton issuing demands for President Assad’s resignation. Given the growing tension between Israel and Egypt over the recent attacks in Israel and the unpredictable nature of how the rest of the Arab world would react to a “kinetic action” against Syria in the heart of the region any such action might be biting of more than the Administration is willing to chew. If such an action were to be undertaken it could be almost guaranteed that Syria would launch an attack against Israel in order to try and bring other Arab states and perhaps Iran into the conflict on it’s side. At which point all bets would be off and the conflagration would spin out of control faster than a drunken Lindsey Lohan in a jewelry store.
With an Administration palpably desperate to find a distraction from the consequences of its disastrous economic policies and with the financial elites equally desperate to keep the ponzi fraud of the markets alive, one Hugo Chavez comes to mind. The parallels between Chavez’s statements about desiring to create a gold backed monetary system for Latin America independent of the collapsing US dollar and Kaddafi’s wanting to create a “Gold Dinar” for settlement of oil contracts is unmistakable and undeniable. Hence the reason you won’t see anything about it in the MSM.
Understanding that the US already has a sizeable military and intelligence logistics presence right next door in Columbia and there already exist tensions along the border over allegations of Columbian and possibly US troops crossing that border in pursuit of Columbian FARC insurgents the table may be already set for the set piece in the Orwellian nightmare. Add in huge oil reserves and that the US imports large amounts of it, exclusively to California, and the temptation for the Machiavellians may be too much to pass up.
All this is speculation of course but when and if you here the propaganda machine that Polish err Venezuelan troops have cross the border and that American troops have been killed defending the Reich, err Columbia then maybe you will understand just what fools we are being played for.
The only question then will be whether the American people will be in the streets protesting against being deprived of house, home, jobs and food or reacting to Kabuki Theater in the jungles of Columbia. The powers that be won’t really care which, as either one will allow for further ratcheting up of government control, depriving us of even more liberties in the name of security.
Before the FED, JP Morgan, the B of E, the BIS begin congratulating themselves about shutting down Kaddafi and perhaps securing his 143.8 tons of gold to cover their short positions on the COMEX they might want to first find out how much of that gold is still in Tripoli and how much has already been moved to Caracas.
www.theeveningchronicle.blogspot.com
"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master and deserves
When Will We Learn?
Submitted by JustAl on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:22pm.
When enemies fight each other, it is stupid to interfere, better that this had dragged on for decades than to install a new government run by those who proudly admitted that last year they were in Afghanistan killing Americans. McCain, in particular, demonstrated that he was no better than Obama, calling these vermin his "heroes" and trying to provide them with small arms.
Now, how many will thank America for that $100M/day bombing support vs how many will try to get to Afghanistan before the snows so they can get back to killing our children?
The Libyan campaign, and the Syrian campaign about to start are monuments to the stupidity that is US "nation building".
I prefer
Submitted by Bob K on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:15pm.
that he be taken alive, put against a wall, and shot. And the same for his sons. The last thing I want is for any of them to end up in the Hague. It would take years and they when it was over they would still be alive.
"Obama got Gadhafi."
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:24pm.
3-2-1...
Muammar Gaddafi Seeks Asylum in Alabama
Submitted by HollyW on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 1:40pm.
According to the Daily Rash, Gaddafi arrived in Alabama late last night and has requested asylum from President Obama! http://www.thedailyrash.com/moammar-khadafi-seeks-asylum-in-alabama
President Downgrade Takes a Break From Golfing & Ice Cream
Submitted by Motormouth KOS on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 2:58pm.
The Idiot Speaks!
The Douche-Bucket-in-Chief emerged from his "compound" in Martha's Vineyard to publicly address the rapid and historic developments in Libya, where rebels moved with remarkable speed to capture control of most of Tripoli. And then he uttered these unbelievable words:
"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I, me, mine. Qaddafi's reign over Libya is "coming to an end" but the fighting is "not over yet,"
Then President Downgrade went back inside to work on his magical jobs plan.
The Obamination... A crisis leading to a catastrophe..(please donate to MRC)
Freedom to inslave, and pork 9 year olds....Happy dazes are here
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 3:10pm.
Libyan Draft Constitution: Sharia is ‘Principal Source of Legislation’
Scroll down for hurl content..... as if Democracy occurs naturally...
. Infidels need not apply
You Didn't Build That.
Around the Med
Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 1:13pm.
Around the Mediterranean the MBs influence, with and without Obama's support, is growing exponentially.
Algeria - GSPC, a radical Islamist militia trying to capture and control the Algerian government and institute an Islamic state supports the ongoing protests against the government and is active in acts of insurgency.
Tunisia - Islamic country that requires its President to be Muslim
Libya - In February, as protests in Libya began, Yusuf al Qaradawi -- an Egyptian preacher in Qatar widely viewed as the Muslim Brotherhood's chief spiritual guide -- issued a fatwa or religious ruling obliging any Libyan soldier who had the opportunity to do so to assassinate the leader.
- Al-Amin Bilhaj, a leading figure in the Libyan Muslim Brotherhood and the President of the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB) recently traveled to Benghazi, the headquarters of the rebel movement, according to Hresha.
Egypt - As to his goals, “al-Sadi” explained to Fouchet that he had rejoined the jihad in order to “cut Gaddafi’s throat and establish an Islamic state.”
- An Egyptian army officer and two security personnel were killed during an Israeli raid on militants along the Egyptian Israeli border, an Egyptian army official told Reuters Thursday.
Israel - under attack as always - now Egypt will no longer be bound to a treaty
Syria - The administration of President Barack Obama has selected the Muslim Brotherhood over the pro-democracy opposition to lead Syria after the expected ouster of President Bashar Assad, a report said.
Turkey - There is strong evidence for Turkish governmental involvement in the Gaza flotilla incident, including the office of Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan. As this report demonstrates, Turkish government support for the flotilla was channeled through the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood network. (source questionable but a lot of support info available)
Greece - one of the PIGS
Albania/Croatia/Bosnia/Montenegro/Slovenia - small economies that are vulnerable (one doesn't have to think too far back to know what could happen there
Italy - one of the PIGS
France - some rioting and revolts from 'workers' but still holding fairly strong
Spain - one of the PIGS
Is it too hard to imagine hearing the Muslim Brotherhood announcing (possibly in a pact with Turkey) the completion of the Mediterranean Caliphate. Even if you don't believe this is a goal the fates of these nations seem to be lining up with only France to hold out.
Heritage Foundation reported
Submitted by Gat New York on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 3:32pm.
Heritage Foundation reported that the initial draft of the Libyan Constitution clearly states that the basis of all law will be on Sharia Law.
So before Obama does another "victory lap" he should consider that what this so-called Arab Spring has ushered in is probably a pan-Arab theocracy across all nations. Before Obama writes a check for money we don't have to the new regime in Libya maybe, just maybe, there should be certain stipulations attached to that money such as no belligerence in the region (i.s. toward Israel) and no alliances with recognized radical Muslim terror groups.