Open Thread: Is Libya Intervention Undermining War Powers Flouting the Law?
During former President George W. Bush's time in office, he was regularly described as fascist, murderous, and a war criminal for his wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even if people didn't support the wars, though, Bush obeyed the law and received congressional approval to be in the countries. President Barack Obama is the one acting above the law, having yet to seek approval for being at war with Libya and ignoring the War Powers Act, but the media remains absent on labeling him with the same names.
In a new piece in the Washington Times by commentator Jeffrey T. Kuhner, Obama is likened to a modern-day Caesar, acting above the Constitution and above the law.
Check out excerpts from the Washington Times piece after the break, and let us know what you think in the comments.
As Kuhner explains, Obama is violating the War Powers Act by continuing to keep the U.S. involved in Libya without congressional approval.
Passed in 1973, the law clearly stipulates that the commander in chief can only deploy U.S. forces for 60 to 90 days without congressional approval. He must then receive authorization from Congress. If he does not, he is usurping legislative authority and expanding the prerogatives of the executive branch - concentrating power in his hands, especially the most important act of all: war. In short, by flagrantly transgressing the War Powers Act, Mr. Obama has sparked a constitutional crisis.
The Republican-controlled House has fought back, with Speaker John Boehner demanding that Obama explain why he allowed the 90-day deadline to come and go without seeking congressional approval for being in Libya. Boehner was dismissed by the administration, which defended the war as being led by NATO, not the U.S., and therefore not subject to the War Powers Act.
The flaw with Obama's argument is that the Libyan campaign could not exist without U.S. support.
Without U.S. drones, fighters, equipment, ammunition and missiles, NATO would not be able to sustain the no-fly zone or the relentless military campaign. Mr. Obama may pretend that our involvement is minimal or somehow not the equivalent of a full-scale war because of the lack of ground troops. But it is shameless propaganda. Col. Gadhafi and the Libyan army consider America to be at war, as do the civilians who suffer collateral damage from NATO’s missiles and bombs.
Obama has also had to repeatedly redefine the action in Libya to mold it into some sort of national strategic interest.
First, the administration claimed military intervention was necessary to save civilians from a potential Srebrenica-style massacre in Benghazi. When that was averted, Mr. Obama then argued that NATO bombing had to continue to prevent Col. Gadhafi from routing poorly organized rebel forces. Now the policy has evolved into overthrowing Libya’s police state.
Members of congress from both sides of the aisle are revolting against the president's actions as they seek to end the intervention in Libya, which Kuhner points to as the reason Obama refuses to seek their approval: Obama knows he won't get it.
Do you think Obama realizes his lack of congressional support to stay in Libya? Do you think Congress is working hard enough to demand that Obama follow the laws?
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Comments
You have to remember that,
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:06pm.
You have to remember that, for Democrats, the law (like the constitution) is just a "suggestion".....a starting point, if you will.
That's why, when told by his lawyers that his Libyan adventure was illegal, Obama considered that "advice" and rejected it.
An aside here
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:58pm.
Also, for Democrats, there is no way to commit an immoral act, as they have no morals. Witness the many Democrats, like Rangel, for example, who are flat out criminals, but act as if they are innocent as new born babes.
Yes. Impeach now.
Submitted by Red Jeep on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:04pm.
Why is Barry killing Libyans who have not threatened this country?
Must be nice to be a dictator.
Hugo Chavez 2 with nukes.
Are you forgetting that our
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:10pm.
Are you forgetting that our involvement is "non-hostile"?
Not our fault that people are getting killed.
\sarc
Everyone must remember that
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:40pm.
Everyone must remember that he dubbed this a kinetic military action not a war. So, in the mind of the White House Wastrel the War Powers Act don't apply.
The quietest Constitutional crisis I can remember
Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:15pm.
We have a flagrant violation of the War Powers Act. Some of the Administration's lawyers maintain that the Act is unconstitutional and therefore need not be heeded. Federal courts have been reluctant to make a definitive ruling in the past.
So, why hasn't the House of Representatives rushed this to the Federal courts and get this resolved once and for all.
Failure to press the issue risks establishing precedence that can be used by the Executive Branch in future court challenges.
More to the point
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:17pm.
If Congress and the Senate had any guts, he would have been impeached long before now.
This isn't about him "exercising" absolute rule so much as him being unimpeded by Congress who has the power to stop him in his tracks.
We already know that the possob is going to do whatever he damn well wants. What we DON'T know is what will Congress do about it. If anything happens or not, whatever it is, it's on their heads.
-Jon
Days not weeks
Submitted by PoolPlayer on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:50pm.
Does the media remember that his initial statement was 'days, not weeks or months'. Any media folks replaying that statement? Nope - can't make their man look bad now can they? So in the tank.
Chicken Little Timmy Geithner
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:51pm.
Chicken Little Timmy Geithner is losing his bearing.
Heath Shuler
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:51pm.
Some of you may be aware that Shuler in a Democrat from NC in the House. His district covers about all of the western 1/3 of the state. Others may remember him as a quarterback for the Pumpkin Puke People at the University of Tennessee. How could anyone forget that he once quarterbacked the Washington Deadskins. (Many a Deadskin fan wants to forget but it is part of the team's history)
The NC Senate is in the process of redistricting the state. They have moved a lot of heavily Republican counties into his district pretty much negating the liberal strong hold of Asheville. His chances of re-election don't look too good right. So the rumor is floating around that he is being considered for the athletic director's job at UT. Any of you that don't like the Pumpkin Puke People should pray that he gets the job and does a job like he did with the Deadskins and Congress. About the only good thing I could say about him was that he voted against Obamacare and is strong on the 2nd Amendment. Other that he is just another liberal Democrat trying to pose as a conservative.
Rick
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:10pm.
I don't know his politics other than what you've noted here, but it sort of sounds like the guy is a bit of chameleon; especially if he supports a decidedly conservative position like 2nd amendment rights and opposition to ObamaCare. Would you be surprised if he switched his party affiliation?
BK
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:25pm.
He did lead a revolt against Pelosi as minority leader. He is all over the map. I would rather call him wishy-washy. He is facing a DemoRAT primary challenge. UT is also talking to Johnny Majors and Phat Phil Fulmer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/heath-shuler-reportedly-considering-university-of-tennessee-job/2011/06/29/AGR30xqH_blog.html
Word is, Rick
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:15pm.
....on the Gator boards, anyway, that he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Just what we need, another dumb Critter.
I sincerely hope he gets hired by UT....they're having a hard time finding an AD after Kiffen & Pearl destroyed their two big programs, even Phat Phil doesn't seem to want to touch that job. Hamilton apparently was one hell of a fundraiser, UT is building a phenomenal new training facility...but he didn't know Jack about hiring coaches.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Schuler has always impressed me as one of those . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 5:38pm.
. . . guys who insists on being a Democrat but doesn't know why.
Sadly,
Submitted by Ashrak on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:52pm.
Republicans in the house have no given their approval in the way it actually matters, once past the 60 day mark, any Commander in Chief requires Congressional approval marked by approval of funding for continued operations.
John Boehner and the Majority he leads voted to continue funding military action in Libya and because of this Barry is in the clear.
Funding war is approval for waging it sufficing the requirements of the codifying War Powers Act. Republicans had and still have 100% checking authority to stop Barry and they didn't and still don't exercise it. Nope, they bowed down instead. Yet again, as has been the case several times now, Republicans have had Barry by the proverbial balls and instead of squeezing them with their Constitutional and statutory authority, they stroked them to the point of orgasm. Birth "certifigate", Libya and GunWalker are three examples where the House Majority have all the cards to trump Barry, and in all cases they fold willingly. The budget fiasco is another, but they bowed with CRs instead and now we are at a debt ceiling impasse. The record shows that Boehner and Republicans have bowed time and again, and one can only logically conclude they will do so again.
The fact of the matter is that the people sent the Republican Party to Majority in the House to stop Barry and his cohorts but Republicans have refused to do what the people sent them to Majority to do.
George Washington warned us about political factions and it is time we listen. It is not time for a third party bid, it is time for masses of candidates all over this country aside from party. This is because both parties have locked arms in an unholy alliance that acts as a buffer, and insulator, between us and our government rather than a conduit to it.
Illegal war
Submitted by Zepppo on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:08pm.
The Libyan intervention is illegal from international law as well. It is a war of aggression. Libya attacked none but its own people. In order for a country to get involved in another country's war, it must be approved by the UN or have a treaty with the side they are intervening for. The rebels are not even officially reognized as a government so they are not even authorized to make treaties. I have heard nothing of the UN on this.
The democrats kept complaining that the Iraq invasion was illegal on these ground because Iraq did not directly attack us and the UN only had several resolutions threatening an attack but only a no-fly zone specifically authorized. The attack was based and approved on the grounds that the resolutions said that if they were not met, then an attack would be initiated and the they were not being met so implicitly, an attack was approved.
Neither implicit nor explicit approval was given for this act of aggression against a sovereign power, hence the whole war is an illegal action on the part of NATO subjecting all countries involved to meaningless sanctions of the UN. I say meaningless because this is the only kind the UN ever seems to give.
It's simple, really...
Submitted by retrocon on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:22pm.
Conservatives see the "Act" as unconstitutional, and i am one of them. Either a war has to be declared, or he has to get out. Now, congress can either declare war or defund. But war is war, whether one bomb or 2 armies.
Liberals love the "Act," when a republican is POTUS. Gives them a feeling of control.
Obama claims to support the war powers act, but is claiming this little libyan jaunt is exempt.
Another example of Obama acting beyond his authority -- knowingly and intentionally.
Simple.
You're right.
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:32pm.
Regardless of what one thinks about the WPA,it doesn't change the fact that Congress is supposed to have ultimate authority when it comes to military action. Yes, a POTUS is the commander in chief, but he's not a dictator, he does not act arbitrarily because Congress holds the purse.
In any case, this bogus potus is in violation of the Constitution regarding our military and Congress and the Senate need to grow a pair and stop this crap.
And they won't.
-Jon
West on FNC
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:22pm.
Congressman West is on FNC at the moment.....drat, just ended. He was talking with Martha McCallum about the taxes and etc, including how the WH wasn't "guaranteeing social security checks by Aug 3rd."
While I missed what he said, I don't understand why people aren't up in arms about this bogus date (bogus potus after all) of Aug 2nd which as Rush pointed out yesterday was the start of Ramadan.
But these kinds of extortion tactics would be considered criminal in other areas of life, but not from the WH Thugocracy?
Sickening.
-Jon
Yeah, Jon, "my guys" are active and leading the charge
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:20pm.
I missed Allen, but Marco Rubio was on Rush about 45 minutes ago and HE ROCKED!
That guy is brilliant. He gets wound up on the debt/spending issue and just goes ballistic on Obama and the democrats. Rush said he'd put a transcript up. There were a couple of truly great "bites" that I'm sure the media will try to spin as right-wing nut-jobism. I can't wait. Marco was so quick on his feet, and quite funny and charming too (a trait he shares w/Allen West, I might add).
I'm up to TWO great Congressional reps, and hoping to make it THREE in 2012 by defeating Astronaut Bill Nelson.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
obama
Submitted by jessieH on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:41pm.
How many reasons do we need before we impeach this treasonous POS?
How many?
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 1:58pm.
It didn't take this much to impeach Clinton. Must be a new standard.
-Jon
Impeaching the WH Wastrel
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:19pm.
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
IMO he has broken his oath. First by saying he would not defend DOMA. Executing the office of president means to uphold the law of the land. The he jumped on a sovereign state, Arizona, for their immigration law that he refuses to uphold. Those two should be impeachable. I know there are lot more but those come to my mind right now
What it took
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:39pm.
Clinton was impeached for committing perjury and that was it. Granted, the senate didn't have the guts to take him out of office, but there it is.
That's why I said must be a new standard, there's a big list and some of it would be criminal, in addition to what you put up. Criminal in the sense that he's acting the dictator.
But when you get right down to it, there's no point in worrying about it because apparently there's new standards that Congress and the Senate must be following to allow it to go this far and apparently still going.
So at this point, nothing would surprise me any action taken by this dictator in chief, what would surprise me is if Congress and the Senate actually takes action.
And right now, they won't.
-Jon
Fund EPA and NEA, Kill SS checks, MMMM MMMMM MMMMM
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:11pm.
Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3
Pure arthollery
You Didn't Build That.
The man
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:14pm.
has no shame.
What a filthy fearmongering POS.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:24pm.
Of course nobody will ask him if he'll still keep lobbing million-dollar missiles into Libya.
I really wish the Obama Impersonator
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:33pm.
(the one that got tossed at the big Republican confab) would do the "Eat Your Peas" bit.
That guy has got the whole Obama schtick down to a tee....particularly the self-satisfied smile (trying to act surprised) when he tells a joke.
What would be even more perfect would be "doing" Obama while involved in a hard hitting interview. IOW, show the emperor with no clothes on.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
upc, if I may add....
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:28pm.
I've told this story here before, but it's so good (and your post is crying out for it), so here goes.
Once upon a time, I had a meeting at the Fort Lauderdale Yacht Club with a bunch of the socialite types (I was coordinating a fundraiser). After the meeting, I went to a friend's office for lunch, and as I described the sheer lunacy of these faux, condescending, do-nothing, rich women with the ultra-tight face lifts, over-the-top-bling, and uber-coiffed hair, my friend's office mate couldn't help listening.
Now the office mate was an older woman, and a classic Southern Belle, by the name of Betty Lou Rose. She smiled sweetly and said about their behavior (apply the accent in your head), "Why honey, that's just the epitome of assholery".
I laughed so hard I almost fell over, and I've never forgotten it, because it was just so incongruous.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
B:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:38pm.
"Oh yeah, you blend."
J, Yes Please add as many posts as you can, That is funny..
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:56pm.
We need to squirt water on the purple lipped geriatric teenager, and Laugh at him.
You Didn't Build That.
More on Social Security
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 3:04pm.
Haven't democrats like Harry Reid been saying for years that Social Security is "fully funded", it's "fine"? And isn't funding for Social Security part of every working American's withholdings? How could Social Security checks not be issued if American's are still working but the government can't borrow any more money this fiscal year?
It's a trust fund right? The money is there. All those claims of IOU's and paper vouchers were just GOP scare tactics. Barry's just kidding around, isn't he? What a cut-up, this guy! Almost had me there Barry! Good one. Now, maybe get back to the White House; I hear Michelle has almost finished her lunch and she'll need help re-fastening that belt.
They LIED!
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 3:14pm.
(go figure).
EOM.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Social Security
Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 5:52pm.
Well, we all know there's no actual trust fund, but the revenue taken into the Treasury from SS payroll contributions (both employee and employer) can only be used to pay for SS.
The Beltway gimmickry comes in where the Congress identifies an excess of funding -- in other words, more SS revenue received than SS checks paid out -- and "borrows" that excess, leaving an IOU in the form of Treasury bonds. It's a technicality to be sure, but it is the game they have played for decades.
Thus, there is money for Social Security checks this August 2 regardless of whether the debt ceiling is raised or not, and for Obama and Reid to scare SS recipients that the checks won't be mailed out can only be explained as illegally using the funds to pay for other government spending instead of what it is intended for. By definition, SS is non-discretionary spending (the USG has no choice but to pay it), so withholding the checks for even a day or two could be a violation of Federal law.
Ergo.....
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 6:32pm.
For him to make such a bold suggestion that it could happen makes it extortion.
And that's another impeachable offense that they won't bust him on.
-Jon
Fear and ignorance
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 4:34pm.
The typical DemocRAT strategy is to play on people's fears and their ignorance that they won't know any different. If the watch the alphabet networks they will never know the truth. We all know he can't stop SS checks. Why don't he stop welfare checks?
Need a good laugh?
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:42pm.
Read the take on Chocolate Nagin's new book by the guys over at This ain't hell but you can see it from here. Jon and the guys over there are good at exposing phony soldiers. This is just as good exposing a phony mayor.
Even the Wa Post goes after Nagin's collection of lies.
Some more from NOLA online.
I wonder when he will make the morning show circuit. A book like this is just what the MSM loves because it takes shots at Bush.
OMO, rick!!
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 3:05pm.
Are you sure this isn't Obama's third biography?
Marco Rubio's "money quote" from the Limbaugh Interview Today
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 2:57pm.
Gotta love this guy. In the first part of the interview he jokes about the way he says things (i.e. being quoted by Speaker Boehner), "Well, maybe I just haven't been here long enough to know better, but..."
Then he continues the interview, and a bit later comes up with this absolute piece of brilliant honesty (emphasis mine):
RUSH: ......Even after two-and-a-half years of demonstrable failure, after we couldn't be more clear about how wrong and destructive these policies are, he wants to continue them and increase them -- and a lot of Americans can't understand why. Who is this man?
SENATOR RUBIO: Well, here's the problem. He has to be measured by an objective standard that every president has to be measured by. When I look at the election next year, what he's really gonna be coming to the American people and asking for is an extension to his contract. He wants a four-year extension to his contract to be president of the United States. So we have to measure him, and how do we measure him? Well, unemployment. Unemployment is higher, significantly higher than when he took over. You know, what about the value of people's homes? The value of people's homes are down. How about the national debt? The national debt is up significantly higher with no solution in sight and none offered by him.
By every measure that you can measure a president by, things have gotten worse, and significantly worse, and that's what he has to be measured by, and part of it I think is a flawed ideology. His view of government and the people in his administration is a flawed view that takes us away from the things that have made America exceptional and part of it is, quite frankly, incompetence. I honestly believe, and I don't say this with any disrespect, I really don't know him, I have nothing personal against him but I honestly think there's a lack of competence in terms of being able to do the job and the ability to lead on some of these critical issues and the result is being paid by, you know, millions of Americans who can't find a job or are working twice as hard to make half as much, who see their country being bankrupted and no serious solutions being offered.
Is my Senator brilliant, or what? And he's got the audacity to tell the truth about Obama.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
It's time to impeach this Kenyan Muslim commie from Hell
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 3:13pm.
...who thinks he is some sort of dictator.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Been time, long time ago
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 3:55pm.
It's that same horsesh!t nonsense they tried to pull when they threatened our soldier's pay a few months ago. It's extortion and last time I checked, extortion is a crime.
For those of you in Rio Linda, I am referring to this legal definition:
the act or practice of extorting by a public official acting under color of office
He's got absolutely no right to make threats like that, and yes, it's time, been time a long time ago, but again, Congress and the Senate won't do squat about it.
-Jon
The Right is losing their collective minds
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 4:44pm.
over the new McConnell fallback plan. I'm a little more cautious myself- I won't rush to judgment on something in which the details are very sketchy and -for the most part- over my head anyway. I think I'll know better when I hear the reaction from the White House and the Left: if they excoriate it, then my guess is it's a pretty smart move; if they come out praising McConnell's vision, I'll start worrying.
Happy birthday Tab Hunter
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 6:59pm.
Monday was Tab Hunter's 80th BD. In honor of that TCM ran Ride the Wild Surf. Man what I would have given to ride the waves of the Banzai Pipeline. Too old now. Man weren't Barbara Eden and Shelly Fabres two of the most beautiful women on the earth in 1964?
Jan and Dean Ride the Wild Surf
I'd love to go back to those days when a commie was not welcome in the US. Now we have a damn commie in the WH.
Barbara Eden and Shelly Fabres are both commies,
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:25pm.
the latter having been married to a bolshevik for the past quarter century. And Hunter is a confessed homosexual and presumably living a life of sin for decades.
But it's always fun to pretend.
Jer
Yeah, Leave it to Jer to just wreck one of my earliest...
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:39pm.
...adolescent crushes.
LOL - There was a time I would have pushed a peanut up the side of Stone Mountain with my nose just for a chance to meet Barbara Eden.
I mean, I used to fantasize about being Major Nelson, as I thought he was the luckiest guy on Earth.
:-)
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Sorry, Dave...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:47pm.
And I still fantasize about being Major Nelson.
Jer
Jer
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:54pm.
I predict you will take an unpresidented amount of flak for that post.
Stay away from commenting about the politics of guys on the cover of Tiger Beat in the late 60's and through the 70's though. Times are tough enough.
Flak for that?
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:58pm.
Surely not.
Jer
What a disingenuous sob...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 7:09pm.
Obama's resorting to the age old Dem tactic of "scare the s#$t out of the old folks," I see, with his warning/threat that social security checks may not go out...What a jackass. I have a question for him and the rest of the Dems...IF social security checks aren't sent out, will Obama, Biden, and the members of the House and Senate be paid? Something tells me they will be.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
The GOP should make a
Submitted by Dan Diego on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 8:35pm.
The GOP should make a commercial w/ Duh One and Biter at Pebble Beach pushing Grandma off the cliff.
Why Not? Turn about is fair play...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 10:04pm.
after all.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan