CNN is showing a picture of an armed man standing near one of Obama's rallys. Although his actions were legal in Arizona and in the judgment of the Secret Service, he did not pose a threat, the networks will be in a frenzy over this picture.
I don't think it helps, but it probably doesn't hurt as much as the liberals think it does. After all, to some liberals, having a gun is an indictment already, and they think others feel the same. We don't.
Besides, if you openly bring a gun to a place guarded by the Secret Service, it's a pretty good bet that you're just making a political statement. If you really wanted to shoot at the president, you'd hide the gun, not display it openly. I wouldn't bring a gun, myself, but that's just me.
The dems and a few phony conservatives will assure us this is the worst thing ever for the republican party, and that we should stop confronting politicians at town halls altogether because of it.
If you think experts are Expensive, try using amateurs to do the job.
This is what I told a major Financial Corporation once, when they said my bid was too high to rewrite their legacy computer system.
About 3 months later they wanted me to take over the rewrite, after the company they had hired had them in a worse mess than they had before they hired them.
My new bid was about 1/3 higher than my original bid, because I had to not only rewrite the system I had to contend with the 'Rookie Mistakes' made by the other company.
The Financial Corporation told me after I completed the job that the rewrite ended up costing them 2 1/2 times my original bid - not counting lost production costs.
The American Medical industry has the most educated and arguably some of the most brilliant people in America within its ranks.
Amateur Politicians now state they can make it better, more affordable and available for everyone without raising costs?
Emergency Rooms have become the most brutalized area in a Hospital, not only raising operating costs for the entire Hospital but Health Insurance as well.
Amateur Politicians decided that any and everyone should be treated in the Emergency rooms, as a 'Sacrifice for the Common Good' regardless of the burden and expense.
Amateur Politicians now say that this is working so well, that they must 'Redouble Their Efforts' by brutalizing the entire Medical system to have the same operational rules.
If you think Medical experts were Expensive, wait until the Amateurs are finished.
Why is no one talking about the base economic problem with government run healthcare? Here is my hypothesis:
If I, as a taxpayer, have monies removed from my paycheck to pay for a health insurance plan managed by the Federal Government, why would I pay for an additional policy through a private insurer.
It would not be a policy or mandated removal of the private option, but rather a behavioral one. Why pay for two, when you are absolutely forced to pay for one.
Is there a way to opt out of the government insurance option and not have any of my tax dollars spent for some other person's government sponsored healthcare?
Unless I am missing something, this is a very simple argument to make.
I am almost ashamed to say I am not sure, but I don't think the so-called Public Option is a perk of being American--I think you have to pay for it, have skin in the game.
You will pay all taxes, fees, regulatory commissions and/or fines created to pay for the public option even if you keep you own insurance. This is why the politicians can legitimately say you will not be forced to go to the public option and can keep your current healthcare. Your current healthcare will be more expensive, unable to compete and will slowly decline until it can't compete or qualify to meet government standards, standards the public option will not have to meet, and you get dumped on the public option but you will not be forced to opt for the public option.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
I don't know about contradicting since StarAZ said claimed not to know but I will say I have heard this argument several times but it gets drowned out by the 'death panel' and 'euthanasia' arguments. The problem is that while those two issues are possibilities that could occur under the wording of the healthcare bill the eventual loss of a true private insurance for all but the upper wealth holders in America is an economic fact.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
Can you provide me with a reference for this? I'd like to read that part for myself. I don't doubt it is there, I just don't know where in the document it resides.
The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
Translation: your plan will stay the way is for five years, and then even private insurance will be forced to mimick public services.
Page 19:
(1) IN GENERAL.—Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
Translation: private insurance will only be "acceptable" if the Federal Exchange signs off on it.
Except for:
Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.
Translation: the healthcare czar can give preferencial treatment to whomever they want - and of course that would never be used in favor of a union.....
We then find out on page 72 that the exchange is little more than a co-op private plans will be forced to buy into in order to pool more resources into propping up the public option:
under section 204 establish standards for, accept bids from, and negotiate and enter into contracts with, QHBP offering entities for the offering of health benefits plans through the Health Insurance Exchange, with different levels of benefits required under section 204, and including with respect to oversight and enforcement;
Once a private insurer buys into the exchange, they will be completely controlled by the healthcare czar.
Instead of abolishing private insurance companies, the government will basically absorb them to take advantage of their infrastructure and minize knowledge gaps. These private companies will make handy scapegoats should things go south. Also, by pre-emptively controlling the entire private sector, they ensure that it will be impossible for any private alternatives to exist.
It's not putting everyone on Medicaid. It's turning Blue Cross into AIG.
I have read parts of the bill--and I used to WRITE this stuff--and I still can't see if someone's health plan changes (rates, terms) and they get booted, do they or their employer pay for the PO. Pay some subsidized rate. If say my 28-yr-old with no insurance goes to the PO--is it just Hi, Good to See Ya, or does she pay some "affordable" amt. This is so basic to this I am ashamed to say I don't know for sure.
If you send your child to a parochial Catholic school, you pay for education twice. You pay for the public school through taxes, and then you pay for the Catholic school through tuition. The argument is that providing public education is a civic duty that everyone shares, whether they use the services or not. After all, everyone pays for the fire department, even if they never use the service.
I disagree that it's that simple, but it isn't an unreasonable policy.
However, it's worth noting that with Catholic school, people will pay extra for it because the education is different. (Hopefully, the school demands more discipline, and you have the freedom to discuss religion and other topics that are verboten in public school.) With healthcare, however, it's the same care. There would be no reason to choose a more expensive private plan if the public plan offers the exact same care at a cheaper price.
The whole crux of ObamaCare is that private plans will be regulated so they mirror the public plan. It's a bit like telling FedEx they can only stay in business if they promise to be as slow as the post office.
It's common sense to assume that people will give up and accept the public plan, especially if the economy stays in trouble.
"It's a bit like telling FedEx they can only stay in business if they promise to be as slow as the post office."
A great analogy. It applies to all aspects of the plan, too:
Instead of private insurers having to compete against the public option's prices, they also only have to compete against the public option's quality of service.
Now, since a government-run program won't give a crap about customer happiness, you can bet the service will be pretty bad.
That, in turn, will mean that insurers won't have to give a crap about service, either.
It'll lower the standard for everyone.
It reminds me of the old joke about the two guys who are about to be attacked by a grizzly bear. One guy puts on his running shoes. The other guys laughs at him, and says "they won't help you outrun a grizzly bear." The first guy answers, "Yeah, but I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you."
That's going to be the new standard. Insurers won't have to really compete against each other. They'll only have to compete against the public option.
...and, if your insurance plan changes in any way after the bill becomes law, you will have to dump it and get the government policy, virtually guaranteeing the elimination of every private insurance company in the country unless they're selling the government plan, of which they'll have no choice. That's what democraps call competition, lol.
-Obama's plan is not for the public option to be sustained by its customers. He wants to sustain it by taxing the rich.
-If a small business owner is forced to pay for a public plan, he won't be too enthused about paying twice to get private insurance for a hundred staffers. He'll pay the fine and leave you to fend for yourself.
-Since no one is allowed to "opt out" of Social Security or public school taxes, I have no reason to believe we won't be forced into paying for this.
"-Obama's plan is not for the public option to be sustained by its customers. He wants to sustain it by taxing the rich."
Which is interesting, considering he also said in the town hall where he made his post office analogy that he expects it to be self-sustaining without being subsidized by the tax payer, lol. Haven't heard anyone call him on it since he made that claim either.
Obama: People say, well, how can a private company compete against the
government? And my answer is that if the private insurance companies
are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be
self-sustaining - meaning taxpayers aren’t subsidizing it, but it has
to run on charging premiums and providing good services and a good
network of doctors, just like any other private insurer would do - then
I think private insurers should be able to compete. They do it all the
time.
I understand your frustration. I do not have a simple answer but--here is something I posted from the bill, asked for input and got none.
"SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1."
The LIMITATION part reads to me; that if the bill was to go in effect on 1/1/2010 and you applied for insurance on, say, 2/1/2010 you could not go with a private insurer.Thus the premiums would go to the communiustic health care group and that is how they would begin to pay for the insured.
I was seeking confirmation that I was interpreting correctly. My wife read it and said she thought that is what it meant.
..., the individual insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1....
That is interesting for a hundred reasons. But in any case we need to hold Obama’s and his Fascist henchmen’s feet to the fire over why it was so important pass the initial POS before the August Recess. This was a naked Fascist grab for power over a vital part of America. They should all be tarred and feathered.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
instead of trying to untangle the ball of yarn and pick out the knots - I say start with a whole new skein.
And instead of trying to grab the private sector's purse strings, untie their hands and let them come to their own solutions.
Meanwhile - tort reform! It may only account for something like 12% of the problem but its a start. Why do we have to eat the elephant all in one bite.
___________________________________________ "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
The Democrats will countenance Tort Reform when they get totalitarian control over health care.
Why do you think they have been provoking tort excesses and blocking reform all these years?
The Democrats' siccing tort lawyers up our country is, and has been, a long term extortion project against the American public and its free choice health care system.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
If BHO gets control over our health care system and he is satisfied with it, the Trial Lawyers will be thrown under the bus, if they threaten to jeopardize it.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
My street is being repaved right now, along w/new sewers, curbing, ADA crosswalks, etc. with stimulus money.
There's about 20 guys on site - the only non-Mexicans are the project manager and the backhoe operator. Meanwhile, my brother, the lifelong Union construction guy, is coming up to his 18th-month anniversary of being unemployed.
What's truly striking in Greenberg's poll is the degree to which the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have fallen off the progressive radar. I attended the first YearlyKos convention, in 2006, and have kept up with later ones, and it's safe to say that while people who attended those gatherings couldn't stand George W. Bush in general, their feelings were particularly intense when it came to opposing the war in Iraq. It animated their activism; they hated the war, and they hated Bush for starting it. They weren't that fond of the fighting in Afghanistan, either.
Now, with Obama in the White House, all that has changed. Greenberg presented respondents with a list of policy priorities and asked, "Please indicate which two you think progressive activists should be focusing their attention and efforts on the most." The winner was passing comprehensive health care reform, with 60 percent, and number two was passing "green energy policies that address environmental concerns," with 22 percent. Tied for eighth place, named by just eight percent of respondents, was "working to end our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan."
This really isn't surprising, but it does show just how contrived the outrage over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan really was among the activist left. Seems it was more about indulging in frothy hatred of George W. Bush than any real concern over the direction of American foreign policy.
Real shocker, huh? Well, I know my faith in the sincerity of liberals has been shaken to the core.
I strongly suggest you make Ace of Spades your second visit right after NewsBusters and just before you start surfin' teh pron.
While we love and admire Noel...he's the Associate Editor here. Matt Sheffield is the Executive Editor, and the site's technical guru (although with his other enterprises he may have delegated that to a staffer by now). I believe he has final say on the design, lay out, and content of the site.
Finally, the list of linked blogs is alphabetical...it would make no sense to move it in the list.
No surprise about the netroots, though....they want to consolidate and keep their perceived power. Not if we can help it though.
The 'Simplistic Mind' of Barack Obama and his 'Brain Numbed' followers always focus on one thing - the Government.
Since only Government Workers have Morals.
Anyone who DOESN'T work for the Government lacks 'Morals', lacks 'Ethics', lacks 'Virtue' and are NOT 'Righteous' or have any 'Noble Goals'?
Anyone who doesn't work for the Government is a 'Cheat', 'Liar', 'Petty', 'Mean' and has 'Dubious Conduct' in everything they do.
Only Government Workers take the 'Moral High Ground' and have 'Moral Eminence' over everyone else who is NOT a Government worker.
How is this possible?
Once a Human becomes a Government employee or becomes an 'Elected Official' the Government grants them an Eternal Salvation, a Government Salvation that NOT only cleanses them from all past sins and unrighteousness, but grants them 'Eternal Perfection'.
Government Workers are NOT saddled with Human Vagaries that other Humans must endure, their judgments are perfect, never again will they lie, cheat, steal or do anything that is deceitful or duplicitous.
Government Workers become the 'Super Humans' that only Hitler could dream about.
Anyone other than a 'Government Worker' is a sub-human that cannot be relied upon or trusted.
Government Doctors and Government Nurses are the only medical workers that can be trusted to actually care about their patients, all other Doctors and Nurses only do medical procedures for ill-gotten gain and to line their own pockets.
Humanity can only be 'Saved' from themselves and be perfect without sin, by becoming a Government Worker.
Is Janet Napolitano putting her political enemies on the federal No-Fly List? Are the democratics planning to use the No-Fly List to disarm thousands of people?
Remember that during the administration of President George W. Bush there was great concern over the No-Fly List, how names got on, who was on it, etc. Now under the Bamster, not so much. Title is a quote from Rahm Emanuel:
"In June, one of the country's most notorious gun grabbers, New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg, introduced a bill (S. 1317, pdf here) which would make Rahm Emanuel's dream come true."
Also an obvious intrusion on states' rights, and we already know that the gun-grabbers love to overrule the states in this area.
how many businesses combat a lack of interest in their product by raising the price. Besides the New York Times, that is.
___________________________________________ "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
And that's why Obama is insisting that private health insurance will not be allowed to compete effectively. If the public option looks like the post office, so will everything else.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
Looks like the RNC might be jumping on board Palin's wagon, so to speak.
Dear Fellow Conservative,
In November 1994, a great tide of conservative Republicans swept to
victory in races all across America, wresting control of Congress from
the stagnant, liberal Democrats and bringing principled, reform-minded energy to Bill Clinton's "big government knows best" Washington, D.C.
I am very proud to have been a part of that historic achievement, unseating the Democrat incumbent to represent Pennsylvania in the U.S. Senate. But I couldn't have done it without the difference-making support of the Republican National Committee.
I believe that we are facing a very similar opportunity today.
Across our nation, voters are waking up to the disastrous consequences of Barack Obama's
presidency. Americans who were willing to take him at his word when he
campaigned as a supposedly "reasonable," "moderate" candidate are
beginning to understand what lies behind the media hype and insincere
charm.
President Obama and his Pelosi-Reid Democrat allies in Congress are radical leftists determined to remake America into a socialist "utopia."
They
jeopardize our future, with activist judges who disregard the
Constitution, wholesale takeover of banks, manufacturers, insurance
companies and health care, outrageous and unsustainable taxation and
spending which saddle our children and grandchildren with trillions of
dollars in debt, rising unemployment and inflation, and a foreign
policy of apology and dithering in the face of deadly global threats.
A new tide of popular grassroots opposition to the Obama Democrats'
senseless policies and insatiable hunger for power is rising across
America.
In the spirit of our great Founders, Main Street
Americans are voicing their opposition with a renewed sense of
patriotism. Tea Party protests, enthusiasm for less government, and
anger at Washington's derisive attitude toward America's bedrock values
are growing.
There is real enthusiasm for a truly conservative
alternative to the leftist Democrats. And RNC Chairman Michael Steele
and I know that our Party can ride that wave of enthusiasm to victory
in upcoming elections.
That is why I'm asking you to stand with us as we work to recruit and elect principled, conservative Republican candidates who will work to reverse the Democrats' damage and govern with humility and respect.
The next Republican Revolution starts with you. Please help the RNC support tomorrow's leaders the way they supported me.
Please join our fight today. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Rick Santorum
P.S. America needs new leadership, and we must be ready to provide it.
Help us support real conservative Republicans who will sweep to victory
and provide the good governance Americans deserve. Please take this opportunity right now to help my friend Michael Steele and the good folks at the RNC support strong, conservative Republican candidates by making an online contribution of $25, $50, $100, $500, or $1,000 to the RNC today. Thank you.
My reply:
I'll believe it when I see it. I won't contribute a single penny till the Republican Party grows a set at least half as big as Sarah Palin's. Purge the RINO's, or perish with them.
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
SOL.. Poultry trucks at the WH.. LOL.. Very good. One of the Secret Service agents is likely assigned as "White House poultry inspector". That'll look great on the resume. ;+}.
Seems like Mama Robinson has more confidence in Voodoo than in her son-in-law's Health Care program. Maybe she's onto something?
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Slick...word is that a reporter at WAPO started to write about this story. He looked out the window and saw someone out on the street with a little doll in one hand and a handful of long pins in the other. The doll looked a lot like him.
So he changed his mind.
;+}
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Feel free to fast forward to right before the 7:00 mark....
"I was there in Iowa, we actually did pretty good in Waterloo" ROFLMBO
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare,
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Armed Men
August 18, 2009 - 10:03 ET by allanfCNN is showing a picture of an armed man standing near one of Obama's rallys. Although his actions were legal in Arizona and in the judgment of the Secret Service, he did not pose a threat, the networks will be in a frenzy over this picture.
How damaging is this image?
I wonder when members of the....
August 18, 2009 - 10:03 ET by Prester John...New Black Panthers are going to start showing up at the townhalls?
You know, like those guys who blocked the door to the polling place in Philly.
~I'll bet any union thugs thought twice
August 18, 2009 - 10:13 ET by choselife3xAbout "getting in the faces" of the people in that crowd.
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
Not helpful
August 18, 2009 - 10:38 ET by KC MulvilleI don't think it helps, but it probably doesn't hurt as much as the liberals think it does. After all, to some liberals, having a gun is an indictment already, and they think others feel the same. We don't.
Besides, if you openly bring a gun to a place guarded by the Secret Service, it's a pretty good bet that you're just making a political statement. If you really wanted to shoot at the president, you'd hide the gun, not display it openly. I wouldn't bring a gun, myself, but that's just me.
The dems and a few phony
August 18, 2009 - 11:42 ET by ckc1227The dems and a few phony conservatives will assure us this is the worst thing ever for the republican party, and that we should stop confronting politicians at town halls altogether because of it.
America has Come Full Circle
August 18, 2009 - 10:15 ET by Retired GeekFirst we had George Washington who never told a lie.
Now we have Barack Obama who never told the truth.
No, half circle
August 18, 2009 - 10:34 ET by needleWe will come full circle when we have an honest President (Sarah Palin comes to mind).
Actually we came full circle the first time when Honest Abe was President.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
If You Think Medical Experts are Expensive?
August 18, 2009 - 10:16 ET by Retired GeekIf you think experts are Expensive, try using amateurs to do the job.
This is what I told a major Financial Corporation once, when they said my bid was too high to rewrite their legacy computer system.
About 3 months later they wanted me to take over the rewrite, after the company they had hired had them in a worse mess than they had before they hired them.
My new bid was about 1/3 higher than my original bid, because I had to not only rewrite the system I had to contend with the 'Rookie Mistakes' made by the other company.
The Financial Corporation told me after I completed the job that the rewrite ended up costing them 2 1/2 times my original bid - not counting lost production costs.
The American Medical industry has the most educated and arguably some of the most brilliant people in America within its ranks.
Amateur Politicians now state they can make it better, more affordable and available for everyone without raising costs?
Emergency Rooms have become the most brutalized area in a Hospital, not only raising operating costs for the entire Hospital but Health Insurance as well.
Amateur Politicians decided that any and everyone should be treated in the Emergency rooms, as a 'Sacrifice for the Common Good' regardless of the burden and expense.
Amateur Politicians now say that this is working so well, that they must 'Redouble Their Efforts' by brutalizing the entire Medical system to have the same operational rules.
If you think Medical experts were Expensive, wait until the Amateurs are finished.
RG, easy to tear things down,
August 18, 2009 - 11:32 ET by upcountrywaterhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7hw4rL-Nso&feature=fvw
Heck a few nails and some plywood, it's as good as new..
Reagan VS Liberalism
Talking points
August 18, 2009 - 10:17 ET by hobieWhy is no one talking about the base economic problem with government run healthcare? Here is my hypothesis:
If I, as a taxpayer, have monies removed from my paycheck to pay for a health insurance plan managed by the Federal Government, why would I pay for an additional policy through a private insurer.
It would not be a policy or mandated removal of the private option, but rather a behavioral one. Why pay for two, when you are absolutely forced to pay for one.
Is there a way to opt out of the government insurance option and not have any of my tax dollars spent for some other person's government sponsored healthcare?
Unless I am missing something, this is a very simple argument to make.
Hmmm
August 18, 2009 - 10:24 ET by StarAZI am almost ashamed to say I am not sure, but I don't think the so-called Public Option is a perk of being American--I think you have to pay for it, have skin in the game.
So, if I read your comment
August 18, 2009 - 10:32 ET by hobieSo, if I read your comment correctly, I can opt out. I could continue to pay for my private insurance, and not put a dime into the Public Option?
Is there a section in the bill that discusses how the Public Option would be paid for?
hobie
August 18, 2009 - 10:42 ET by AgnosticYou will pay all taxes, fees, regulatory commissions and/or fines created to pay for the public option even if you keep you own insurance. This is why the politicians can legitimately say you will not be forced to go to the public option and can keep your current healthcare. Your current healthcare will be more expensive, unable to compete and will slowly decline until it can't compete or qualify to meet government standards, standards the public option will not have to meet, and you get dumped on the public option but you will not be forced to opt for the public option.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
So you are contradicting
August 18, 2009 - 10:46 ET by hobieSo you are contradicting StarAZ.
You are saying that I will be forced to pay for the public option, whether or not I choose to continue to pay for private insurance.
What you said actually proves my hypothesis as stated above, with perhaps a few tweaks.
Why isn't anyone stating the reason why the public option would kill private insurance as simply as I am trying to?
hobie
August 18, 2009 - 11:02 ET by AgnosticI don't know about contradicting since StarAZ said claimed not to know but I will say I have heard this argument several times but it gets drowned out by the 'death panel' and 'euthanasia' arguments. The problem is that while those two issues are possibilities that could occur under the wording of the healthcare bill the eventual loss of a true private insurance for all but the upper wealth holders in America is an economic fact.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
also
August 18, 2009 - 11:08 ET by candanceKeep in mind that the current bill specifically states it will phase out private insurance after five years.
Can you provide me with a
August 18, 2009 - 13:08 ET by hobieCan you provide me with a reference for this? I'd like to read that part for myself. I don't doubt it is there, I just don't know where in the document it resides.
here you are, hobie
August 18, 2009 - 13:53 ET by candancePage 17 of the bill:
The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
Translation: your plan will stay the way is for five years, and then even private insurance will be forced to mimick public services.
Page 19:
(1) IN GENERAL.—Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
Translation: private insurance will only be "acceptable" if the Federal Exchange signs off on it.
Except for:
Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.
Translation: the healthcare czar can give preferencial treatment to whomever they want - and of course that would never be used in favor of a union.....
We then find out on page 72 that the exchange is little more than a co-op private plans will be forced to buy into in order to pool more resources into propping up the public option:
under section 204 establish standards for, accept bids from, and negotiate and enter into contracts with, QHBP offering entities for the offering of health benefits plans through the Health Insurance Exchange, with different levels of benefits required under section 204, and including with respect to oversight and enforcement;
Once a private insurer buys into the exchange, they will be completely controlled by the healthcare czar.
VerDate Nov
Thanks for the
August 18, 2009 - 14:42 ET by hobieThanks for the reference.
This is chilling.
I do not want to be going to the DMV when my family or I am sick. That's what this would be like.
it's really quite clever
August 18, 2009 - 16:04 ET by candanceInstead of abolishing private insurance companies, the government will basically absorb them to take advantage of their infrastructure and minize knowledge gaps. These private companies will make handy scapegoats should things go south. Also, by pre-emptively controlling the entire private sector, they ensure that it will be impossible for any private alternatives to exist.
It's not putting everyone on Medicaid. It's turning Blue Cross into AIG.
clever squared, No insurance needed ,because you can not sue
August 18, 2009 - 16:09 ET by upcountrywaterThe government, So medical tort reform is now zero...
As you know most insurance costs are for lawsuits.
Reagan VS Liberalism
Honestly, I am not sure
August 18, 2009 - 11:27 ET by StarAZI have read parts of the bill--and I used to WRITE this stuff--and I still can't see if someone's health plan changes (rates, terms) and they get booted, do they or their employer pay for the PO. Pay some subsidized rate. If say my 28-yr-old with no insurance goes to the PO--is it just Hi, Good to See Ya, or does she pay some "affordable" amt. This is so basic to this I am ashamed to say I don't know for sure.
Same formula as Catholic schools
August 18, 2009 - 11:08 ET by KC MulvilleIf you send your child to a parochial Catholic school, you pay for education twice. You pay for the public school through taxes, and then you pay for the Catholic school through tuition. The argument is that providing public education is a civic duty that everyone shares, whether they use the services or not. After all, everyone pays for the fire department, even if they never use the service.
I disagree that it's that simple, but it isn't an unreasonable policy.
However, it's worth noting that with Catholic school, people will pay extra for it because the education is different. (Hopefully, the school demands more discipline, and you have the freedom to discuss religion and other topics that are verboten in public school.) With healthcare, however, it's the same care. There would be no reason to choose a more expensive private plan if the public plan offers the exact same care at a cheaper price.
exactly, KC
August 18, 2009 - 11:14 ET by candanceThe whole crux of ObamaCare is that private plans will be regulated so they mirror the public plan. It's a bit like telling FedEx they can only stay in business if they promise to be as slow as the post office.
It's common sense to assume that people will give up and accept the public plan, especially if the economy stays in trouble.
LOL - A perfect analogy!
August 18, 2009 - 13:20 ET by KC Mulville"It's a bit like telling FedEx they can only stay in business if they promise to be as slow as the post office."
A great analogy. It applies to all aspects of the plan, too:
It reminds me of the old joke about the two guys who are about to be attacked by a grizzly bear. One guy puts on his running shoes. The other guys laughs at him, and says "they won't help you outrun a grizzly bear." The first guy answers, "Yeah, but I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you."
That's going to be the new standard. Insurers won't have to really compete against each other. They'll only have to compete against the public option.
...and, if your insurance
August 18, 2009 - 11:32 ET by ckc1227...and, if your insurance plan changes in any way after the bill becomes law, you will have to dump it and get the government policy, virtually guaranteeing the elimination of every private insurance company in the country unless they're selling the government plan, of which they'll have no choice. That's what democraps call competition, lol.
well, hobie
August 18, 2009 - 11:02 ET by candanceThere are a few things you need to keep in mind:
-Obama's plan is not for the public option to be sustained by its customers. He wants to sustain it by taxing the rich.
-If a small business owner is forced to pay for a public plan, he won't be too enthused about paying twice to get private insurance for a hundred staffers. He'll pay the fine and leave you to fend for yourself.
-Since no one is allowed to "opt out" of Social Security or public school taxes, I have no reason to believe we won't be forced into paying for this.
"-Obama's plan is not for
August 18, 2009 - 12:43 ET by ckc1227"-Obama's plan is not for the public option to be sustained by its customers. He wants to sustain it by taxing the rich."
Which is interesting, considering he also said in the town hall where he made his post office analogy that he expects it to be self-sustaining without being subsidized by the tax payer, lol. Haven't heard anyone call him on it since he made that claim either.
hobie--
August 18, 2009 - 11:22 ET by misterbillI understand your frustration. I do not have a simple answer but--here is something I posted from the bill, asked for input and got none.
"SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1."
The LIMITATION part reads to me; that if the bill was to go in effect on 1/1/2010 and you applied for insurance on, say, 2/1/2010 you could not go with a private insurer.Thus the premiums would go to the communiustic health care group and that is how they would begin to pay for the insured.
I was seeking confirmation that I was interpreting correctly. My wife read it and said she thought that is what it meant.
This excerpt reads a bit
August 18, 2009 - 13:11 ET by hobieThis excerpt reads a bit weird to me:
..., the individual insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1....
Is that a mandate, as in, can not?
A possible Health Care DO OVER
August 18, 2009 - 10:27 ET by needleDrudge is headlining a possible Health Care
DO OVER
That is interesting for a hundred reasons. But in any case we need to hold Obama’s and his Fascist henchmen’s feet to the fire over why it was so important pass the initial POS before the August Recess. This was a naked Fascist grab for power over a vital part of America. They should all be tarred and feathered.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
shred it!
August 18, 2009 - 10:34 ET by katainkentinstead of trying to untangle the ball of yarn and pick out the knots - I say start with a whole new skein.
And instead of trying to grab the private sector's purse strings, untie their hands and let them come to their own solutions.
Meanwhile - tort reform! It may only account for something like 12% of the problem but its a start. Why do we have to eat the elephant all in one bite.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
The Democrats and their tort lawyers
August 18, 2009 - 10:47 ET by needleThe Democrats will countenance Tort Reform when they get totalitarian control over health care.
Why do you think they have been provoking tort excesses and blocking reform all these years?
The Democrats' siccing tort lawyers up our country is, and has been, a long term extortion project against the American public and its free choice health care system.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
Interesting point
August 18, 2009 - 11:10 ET by Prester JohnWill doctors who participate in a public option be immune to malpractice suits like military doctors are?
Who will John Edwards and company sue, the federal government?
How can BHO and company possibly buy off the trial lawyers?
Trial Lawyers will be thrown under the bus
August 18, 2009 - 11:17 ET by needleIf BHO gets control over our health care system and he is satisfied with it, the Trial Lawyers will be thrown under the bus, if they threaten to jeopardize it.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
Take back the Stimulus too!
August 18, 2009 - 10:41 ET by StarAZMaybe some localities want this dough, but it is not creating jobs--or certainly not 3 million as promised!
Maybe some localities want this dough...
August 18, 2009 - 10:49 ET by needleChicago, for example?
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
Chicago, I am sure
August 18, 2009 - 11:31 ET by StarAZI was basing my comment on this:
http://www.nytimes.c...
Oh, it's creating jobs - just not for American citizens
August 18, 2009 - 11:48 ET by SickofLibsMy street is being repaved right now, along w/new sewers, curbing, ADA crosswalks, etc. with stimulus money.
There's about 20 guys on site - the only non-Mexicans are the project manager and the backhoe operator. Meanwhile, my brother, the lifelong Union construction guy, is coming up to his 18th-month anniversary of being unemployed.
Look over to your right. Now down. further. further. There.
August 18, 2009 - 10:34 ET by JWFBlogs:
There is a reason Ace of Spades is first. Noel put it there and refuses to move it down the list. Ace posted this a few days ago.
I strongly suggest you make Ace of Spades your second visit right after NewsBusters and just before you start surfin' teh pron.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Um....JWF
August 18, 2009 - 10:59 ET by BlondeWhile we love and admire Noel...he's the Associate Editor here. Matt Sheffield is the Executive Editor, and the site's technical guru (although with his other enterprises he may have delegated that to a staffer by now). I believe he has final say on the design, lay out, and content of the site.
Finally, the list of linked blogs is alphabetical...it would make no sense to move it in the list.
No surprise about the netroots, though....they want to consolidate and keep their perceived power. Not if we can help it though.
I hope he fails, too.
And who chose to put A first in teh Alphabet?
August 18, 2009 - 11:39 ET by JWFAnd who forced 7 blogs to change their name and moved them down the list?
Blonde missed teh funnies. Teh Vet is saddened by this. I figured I would catch somebody missing teh funniness but the General?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Closer to true than we know?
August 18, 2009 - 10:39 ET by StarAZhttp://online.wsj.co...
This was good--a la Jonathan Swift.
Only Government Workers can Save America?
August 18, 2009 - 10:48 ET by Retired GeekThe 'Simplistic Mind' of Barack Obama and his 'Brain Numbed' followers always focus on one thing - the Government.
Since only Government Workers have Morals.
Anyone who DOESN'T work for the Government lacks 'Morals', lacks 'Ethics', lacks 'Virtue' and are NOT 'Righteous' or have any 'Noble Goals'?
Anyone who doesn't work for the Government is a 'Cheat', 'Liar', 'Petty', 'Mean' and has 'Dubious Conduct' in everything they do.
Only Government Workers take the 'Moral High Ground' and have 'Moral Eminence' over everyone else who is NOT a Government worker.
How is this possible?
Once a Human becomes a Government employee or becomes an 'Elected Official' the Government grants them an Eternal Salvation, a Government Salvation that NOT only cleanses them from all past sins and unrighteousness, but grants them 'Eternal Perfection'.
Government Workers are NOT saddled with Human Vagaries that other Humans must endure, their judgments are perfect, never again will they lie, cheat, steal or do anything that is deceitful or duplicitous.
Government Workers become the 'Super Humans' that only Hitler could dream about.
Anyone other than a 'Government Worker' is a sub-human that cannot be relied upon or trusted.
Government Doctors and Government Nurses are the only medical workers that can be trusted to actually care about their patients, all other Doctors and Nurses only do medical procedures for ill-gotten gain and to line their own pockets.
Humanity can only be 'Saved' from themselves and be perfect without sin, by becoming a Government Worker.
Napolitano Enemies?
August 18, 2009 - 10:50 ET by slickwillie2001Is Janet Napolitano putting her political enemies on the federal No-Fly List? Are the democratics planning to use the No-Fly List to disarm thousands of people?
Remember that during the administration of President George W. Bush there was great concern over the No-Fly List, how names got on, who was on it, etc. Now under the Bamster, not so much. Title is a quote from Rahm Emanuel:
If You're On That No Fly List, Your Access to the Right to Bear Arms is Cancelled: http://www.classicalvalues.com
"In June, one of the country's most notorious gun grabbers, New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg, introduced a bill (S. 1317, pdf here) which would make Rahm Emanuel's dream come true."
Also an obvious intrusion on states' rights, and we already know that the gun-grabbers love to overrule the states in this area.
How would a public option be paid for?
August 18, 2009 - 11:27 ET by Prester JohnWill EVERYONE in the public option pay premiums, even say, a single mother with 3 kids?
Will there be co-pays, if so, how much will they be?
Will people with pre-existing conditions pay a higher premium?
Do they really expect that premiums and co-pays can possibly pay the cost of care for everyone in the public option?
Or is all going to be paid for out of general tax revenues?
Bob Novak has died
August 18, 2009 - 11:34 ET by R D Helmhttp://www.humaneven...
-Dave
Re Novak
August 18, 2009 - 12:09 ET by slickwillie2001I assume the bongo drums are out at Koss.com and at Puff Ho.
RIP Mr. Novak. I always appreciated him bitch-slapping the pompous Mark Shields on Washington Week.
breaking (funny) news
August 18, 2009 - 11:45 ET by candanceAnyone see the posting on Hot Air about the post office system going bankrupt?
yup
August 18, 2009 - 11:55 ET by katainkenthow many businesses combat a lack of interest in their product by raising the price. Besides the New York Times, that is.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
exactly, kata
August 18, 2009 - 12:00 ET by candanceAnd that's why Obama is insisting that private health insurance will not be allowed to compete effectively. If the public option looks like the post office, so will everything else.
Hmmmm!!!!
August 18, 2009 - 12:36 ET by misterbillExperience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
~E-mail I just got:
August 18, 2009 - 12:58 ET by choselife3xLooks like the RNC might be jumping on board Palin's wagon, so to speak.
Dear Fellow Conservative,
In November 1994, a great tide of conservative Republicans swept to
victory in races all across America, wresting control of Congress from
the stagnant, liberal Democrats and bringing principled, reform-minded energy to Bill Clinton's "big government knows best" Washington, D.C.
I am very proud to have been a part of that historic achievement, unseating the Democrat incumbent to represent Pennsylvania in the U.S. Senate. But I couldn't have done it without the difference-making support of the Republican National Committee.
I believe that we are facing a very similar opportunity today.
Across our nation, voters are waking up to the disastrous consequences of Barack Obama's
presidency. Americans who were willing to take him at his word when he
campaigned as a supposedly "reasonable," "moderate" candidate are
beginning to understand what lies behind the media hype and insincere
charm.
President Obama and his Pelosi-Reid Democrat allies in Congress are radical leftists determined to remake America into a socialist "utopia."
They
jeopardize our future, with activist judges who disregard the
Constitution, wholesale takeover of banks, manufacturers, insurance
companies and health care, outrageous and unsustainable taxation and
spending which saddle our children and grandchildren with trillions of
dollars in debt, rising unemployment and inflation, and a foreign
policy of apology and dithering in the face of deadly global threats.
A new tide of popular grassroots opposition to the Obama Democrats'
senseless policies and insatiable hunger for power is rising across
America.
In the spirit of our great Founders, Main Street
Americans are voicing their opposition with a renewed sense of
patriotism. Tea Party protests, enthusiasm for less government, and
anger at Washington's derisive attitude toward America's bedrock values
are growing.
There is real enthusiasm for a truly conservative
alternative to the leftist Democrats. And RNC Chairman Michael Steele
and I know that our Party can ride that wave of enthusiasm to victory
in upcoming elections.
That is why I'm asking you to stand with us as we work to recruit and elect principled, conservative Republican candidates who will work to reverse the Democrats' damage and govern with humility and respect.
Please help us lay the groundwork to win back government for the American people by making a contribution of $25, $50, $100, $500, or $1,000 to join the Republican National Committee today.
The next Republican Revolution starts with you. Please help the RNC support tomorrow's leaders the way they supported me.
Please join our fight today. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Rick Santorum
P.S. America needs new leadership, and we must be ready to provide it.
Help us support real conservative Republicans who will sweep to victory
and provide the good governance Americans deserve. Please take this opportunity right now to help my friend Michael Steele and the good folks at the RNC support strong, conservative Republican candidates by making an online contribution of $25, $50, $100, $500, or $1,000 to the RNC today. Thank you.
My reply:
I'll believe it when I see it. I won't contribute a single penny till the Republican Party grows a set at least half as big as Sarah Palin's. Purge the RINO's, or perish with them.
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
Our new National Anthem
August 18, 2009 - 13:07 ET by needlehttp://www.youtube.c...
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
Witchcraft in the White
August 18, 2009 - 13:21 ET by celatorWitchcraft in the White House?
Say what? Here's one of those stories that just makes you laugh out loud. Michelle's mom called in a voodoo priestess to do her magic in the WH.
Seems Obama wasn't all that pleased about it. ;+}
You can't make this stuff up.
Here's the story, breaking today.
http://www.forums.ml...
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Hmm... that would explain the live poultry truck
August 18, 2009 - 14:46 ET by SickofLibsHmm... that would explain the live poultry truck parked at the Martha's Vineyard vacation compound.
Somebody call PETA!
SOL.. Poultry trucks at the
August 18, 2009 - 16:02 ET by celatorSOL.. Poultry trucks at the WH.. LOL.. Very good. One of the Secret Service agents is likely assigned as "White House poultry inspector". That'll look great on the resume. ;+}.
Seems like Mama Robinson has more confidence in Voodoo than in her son-in-law's Health Care program. Maybe she's onto something?
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Cel: Madame Marie Laveau, The Voodoo Option Czar
August 18, 2009 - 16:21 ET by SickofLibsYeah, Sonny's Public Option is not going over too well...
A Voodoo Option might just be the ticket.
Re Santeria
August 18, 2009 - 16:27 ET by slickwillie2001Good catch poster. Will this get the coverage that Nancy Reagan's belief in astrology did? Or Hillary having seances with Eleanor Roosevelt?
Slick...word is that a
August 18, 2009 - 17:44 ET by celatorSlick...word is that a reporter at WAPO started to write about this story. He looked out the window and saw someone out on the street with a little doll in one hand and a handful of long pins in the other. The doll looked a lot like him.
So he changed his mind.
;+}
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
What death
August 18, 2009 - 14:25 ET by ckc1227What death panels?
http://www.vancouver...
Don't worry, government won't ration:
"They said they were not sending an ambulance and told me I had had nine months to sort out a lift."
Saw a similar story
August 18, 2009 - 16:14 ET by motherbeltSaw a similar story yesterday.
Of course, you know that will never happen here, because "the right people" will be running the show.....
I was in Iowa....
August 18, 2009 - 22:29 ET by dmntd1Video to watch....
Feel free to fast forward to right before the 7:00 mark....
"I was there in Iowa, we actually did pretty good in Waterloo" ROFLMBO
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare,
nwahs is gone.
August 19, 2009 - 08:07 ET by JWFI would say I am saddened but I'm not so I won't.