For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: taxing "the rich" to pay for healthcare reform.
House Democrats plan to fund the broadest U.S. health-care expansion in four decades by increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, imposing a surtax of 5.4 percent on couples with more than $1 million in income. The legislation unveiled yesterday would place additional taxes on households with more than $350,000 a year in income and calls for further increases if the measure doesn’t hit a target for cost savings. The provisions are intended to raise $544 billion over 10 years.
Was Joe the Plumber right?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
You betcha
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:01 ET by RousseYou betcha Joe was right. Of course he got a free anal exam from the press, a benefit set aside for conservatives only.
financing obamacare
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:58 ET by east tennessee johnIn addition to the increased personal income taxes, which will just to grand for investment in the private sector, WHICH STILL PAYS FOR EVERYTHING GOVERNMENT DPOES, there is a proposed 8% tax on payrolls over $400,000 if the company doesn't offer health insurance. Let's see, $500,000 payroll, $40000 tax. 10% profit margin, $400000 in additional revenues needed to pay additional tax. Job killer? Marxist to the max Comrade O got the big business now he plans to kill/control main street too. If we don't change this in 2010, we'll never have another chance. Democrat Hank Paulson took care of his own, didn't he. Elites are elites. For now they're still dependent upon us for legitimacy. They need us more than we need them. 23010 maybe our last chance to assert who's boss.
OFF topic BUT NOT OFF REALITY
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 17:50 ET by reelman46THE JACKASS CULTURE OF POLLS
What happened to sanity when it came to polls-surveys?
Now they are the DAILY news…they are the story…they are the vehicle to ask for donations…they are the vehicle to push an agenda…
they are a way to distort reality…they are the way to jerk around the voters.
Notice how few are FULLY explained.
Also notice they never ask if you support dropping the special health
care program for congress, the reduction of junkets, the mandated use
of hybrid cars for congress, the freezing of the national budget, the
sealing of the border and so on…you know, the gut issues of substance
the royal congress ignores daily.
The last RNC call pushed me over the edge. I told him “if the
Republicans refuse to attend the judiciary vote, THEN call me back for
a donation”.
The last couple of printed surveys were harshly handled. No, I am not
sorry. The “political respect” phase has long past. I took a sharpie
and wrote, “Why ask voters to guide you when you have principles for
that?” Then I wrote…”I support all bills that reduce gov-meant, lower
taxes and promote basic moral values…how hard is that for you to
understand?” What did you run on? Well, forgot already?
Good grief, we now have a bunch of pantywaist Republicans
mailing-calling for help in forming a spine. Hey, if you have no
principles you can explain-defend-run on…get your sorry butt home! Stop
all this “finger in the wind” crapola. If you are a “confused
Republican” (aka coward) then just vote against all bills
Pelosi-Reid-Obama (aka secular socialist pacifist bills) support. How
hard is that?
Better yet, let’s just vote out ALL of congress (aka the Politburo
and the pansies) that voted for the fiscal outrages of this year.
There are no more excuses for all this secular socialism, all this huge
debt, all this taxation and all this trashing of basic morals.
No more excuses.
My kingdom for congressional 12 year term limits!!!
(As Popeye used to say… “That’s all I can stands, I can’t stands no more.”
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
We lived in Russia for a
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:04 ET by vrwc13We lived in Russia for a year, in the City of Ryazan. They had socialized medicine, and we avoided it like the plague...as did any of the locals who could. Unfortunately for most of them, they could not afford private care.
We would drive 3 hours to Moscow to the American/European clinic for health care. Many affluent Russsians would go there also. Our pediatrician said even as good as this clinic was, most women who could afford to, would leave Russia to give birth!
Btw: how well is this working in Canada?
v
GOP to lure blacks with fried chicken and potato salad
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:13 ET by shawn228That is what Michael Steele implied at the beginning of this comments. I wonder what would have happened if a white person said that. The rest of his comments were pretty good though.
He had my vote
Im all up for some fried
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:42 ET by Dan The Man 2Im all up for some fried Chicken and Taters, I dont see what is wrong with what he said. And if a white guy said it it would still be ok. You are obviously a Yankee and have no idea of what good food is, so go back to your arugla.
Good old good comfort food. You are making fun of what Steele thinks is good food to make friends by? A time honored tradition is setting down and eating while talking turkey between freinds or making new freinds.
Your misunderstanding me Dan
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:46 ET by shawn228I'm talking about reverse racism, if a white man said this the msm would be up in arms.
He had my vote
I think he was being
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:59 ET by dvdaughtryI think he was being sarcastic.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Yes, they would.
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:02 ET by ckc1227Yes, they would.
→ Hey Shawn
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 22:12 ET by Cool ArrowI may be mistaken, but some white guy they called Col. Sanders made a fortune off of fried chicken and potato salad.
I reckon the chickens had a problem with it, but people of many races enjoyed the food.
Now I find out one of the staple dinners of the South is racist?
I'll maintain my own opinion.
Cool Arrow
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 22:19 ET by shawn228I have explained my post 3 times already, I never said his comments were racist, I am saying it is a double standard between whites and blacks. I suspect you already knew and just wanted to get in a dig, but just in case you didn't I thought I would have to explain it yet again.
He had my vote
Fried chicken and tater salad???
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:44 ET by R D HelmDayem, where do I sign up?
Yum.
-Dave
...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated. - PrezBO
LOL!
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:35 ET by RukusI'm eatin' fried chicken, mashed taters and collards as I type. Oh, and a biscuit! I do like some good tater salad also! Later, gotta get back to munchin'. : )
Gary
I want my country back!
→ Ruk
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 22:13 ET by Cool ArrowI like me some mustard on my tater tots.
What, no Blue Ribbion beer?
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:45 ET by ricklailWhat, no Blue Ribbion beer?
Semper suprene nitens
North Carolina now has the worst government money can buy.
→ Andrew Fabacher
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:27 ET by Cool ArrowMaybe we can rustle up a case of Jax.
I don't know how it would
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:09 ET by Ruths husband BenI don't know how it would be perceived by the MSM, but there is nothing wrong with that statement, whether a white man, black man, or whatever said it. I don't think blacks hold the patent for fried chicken and potato salad. But I will bet his potato salad is not as good as Ruth's (the best potato salad in the world, and yes I can prove that)!
Seriously, we need to calm down about this perceived racism in every figure of speech, colloqualism, etc. Pretty soon we will only be able to communicate in platitudes.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho
Shawn: I read about this
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 00:55 ET by stratmanShawn:
I read about this on another site and now have seen/heard the video from the link you supplied.
The Left is playing this up as racial politics. Your own headline - "GOP to lure blacks with fried chicken and potato salad" - is a false argument intended to manipulate the reader into a biased position before reading/hearing the story. I am surprised to see that you have been fooled because I know you to be more thoughtful on this forum.
Clearly, Steele is responding to someone off camera that says they will supply "collard greens". The off camera person is the one to bring up food.
Now, I am a Yankee, but I live and work with many Black people, the importance being that Cleveland Blacks are more likely to know Southern cuisine than Cleveland Whites, even though all may be born in Cleveland.
I can securely say that people appear to enjoy collard greens with chicken with or without a potato dish. The two just seem to go together like a cheeseburger and fries. It's a cultural/regional thing.
A hospital I worked in back in the 80's had collard greens and chicken every week in the cafeteria and people loved it.
So, my point is that what Steele said was neither racist nor ingenuine. It appeared to be a spontaneous response based on cultural/regional Pavlovian conditioning.
I think those that look at this as racist are exposing their own screwed up psyche or divisive politics.
And to answer your question about a White guy saying the same thing, why would that automatically be racist? If they were Repub/Conservatives -- I think you already know the answer.
HI Strat
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 01:08 ET by shawn228Sorry, I believe most people have the wrong impression of my comment. Sorry about the heading, I guess that is where I went wrong.
I'm merely saying that this is reverse racism and the msm would have been up in arms about it. I also hate the comment by the latest Supreme court nominee about the wise Latina woman.
Oh and KFC and their mashed taters is one of my favorite meals in the world, but in your profession you know that leads to high triglycerides, so the doc ordered me to cut down ;-(
He had my vote
Shawn: Wondered if it was
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 21:57 ET by stratmanShawn:
Wondered if it was a grammar issue more than a political position.
Speaking of bad stuff for you, I knew an interventional cardiologist (did cardiac catheterizations) who smoked, He was on the cover of the local Sunday Magazine newspaper insert in his Cath Lab, with his surgical scrubs on, and a pack of Kools cigarettes peaking above the breast pocket. I am sure the collective cardiology borg unit winced in concert.
I do like the KFC extra crispy. They also had some good baked beans but quit selling them recently at my local drive-thru.
I recall seeing a blood draw on a patient in which the tube had a significant layer of unexpected yellowish, glistening, foamy stuff floating on top of the traditional red blood. Further enquiry elicited from the patient that they had very recently eaten a bucket of KFC. The yellow stuff was triglycerides and maybe some other types of fats.
That grossed me out for a while, but I eventually ate KFC again.
Reminds me that effective, cost free birth control can be achieved by doing a rotation in OB-GYN. All those pelvic exams and deliveries effectively killed the desire for sex. Similar to bringing reckless kid drivers into ER's and let them see what happens to motor vehicle accident victims. It really has an effect, at least for a while.
Conclusion - listen to your doctor. If their is a nutrition or other issue related to food, consider obtaining a referal to a registered dietician for meal planning and how you might be able to incorporate, in wise moderation, all the "bad" foods you enyoy too. I am a firm believer that when you tell someone not to eat ANY particular food that you are asking for failure with the diet. People need help in meal planning and the doctor visit may not have enough time and personalized info.
We need you to continue to post on NB's, so I want you to stay healthy. You're so close to coming over to the dark side of Conservatism!
;-)
Stay well.
If there is one thing I have learned this week it is this:
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:14 ET by R D HelmIf our republic is to be saved, it will NOT be the republicans who will save it.
-Dave
...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated. - PrezBO
How healthcare is paid for
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:22 ET by BruzillaHow healthcare is paid for makes no difference, and this truth is missed in most discussions. Most insurers operate on about an 18% passthrough, and Medicaid/Medicare operate on a 25% or so passthrough. So whether you go single payer or multi-payer, you're only going to impact about 25% or less of every dollar spent on healthcare. The other 75% goes to the providers (hospitals, docs, pharmacies, etc.) and until someone finds a way to reign in those expenses, the cost of healthcare will never go down as reducing administrative costs only effects the 25% or less portion of costs.
Also, no one is mentioning that the costs of the public option are based on a 75/25 or 80/20 plan that's similar to traditional insurance plans. This sounds good at first, but what happens when all these poor people have to pay that 20% or 25% co-pay? A single night in the hospital can cost $10,000, which would be a $2,500 co-pay. If Mr. Poor can't afford to pay a $200 insurance premium, how is he going to pay a $2,500 co-pay? He can't, and before long the government will have to pay 100% of claims, which means the proposed cost of providing this coverage is about 25% too low.
Right and wrong at the same
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:22 ET by dscottRight and wrong at the same time Bruz. The bottom line is the rich do not have money it will take to subsidize health care for all the rest of the people. You could tax them at 100% and health care costs would still rise because of failed government policies:
Point #1, the reason for a significant portion of US medical costs is due to
the availability of medicine in general, there are no caps other than
one’s ability to pay. To claim US health care costs twice the world
average is disingenuous. If the top 5% of the US population has 70% of the wealth,
then it stands to reason they spend many times more for their health
care than the 95% of Americans with 30% of the nation’s wealth. With
that kind of disparity, claiming the US spends twice the amount is
unreasonably lumping both these very different groups together to add
apples and oranges which inevitably makes a false assertion.
Point #2 is cost shifting, Medicare reimbursements are below market
and as a result, many medical providers are not accepting them. You can
not claim efficiency when you are literally low-balling the cost of
health care by making someone else pay for it. Nor can you complain
about the cost of private health care when government policy drives up
that cost via cost shifting which amounts to a private subsidy of
government mandates. Between Medicare, Medicaid and 13 million illegals
(who don’t pay their hospital bills), the cost must be paid by someone
therefore, the increase in prices are mostly a function of the
increasing burden of cost shifting to subsidize those three cost
burdens.
In view of point #2, it is adding insult to injury by demanding
those who currently pay, to pay even more to solve a problem that is
caused by the government let alone allow the government dictate the
level of coverage of those health insurance policies which will only
drive up those prices further due to subsidizing coverage for things
like abortion like in RomneyCare. We have gotten away from the real
reason for Insurance, protection against catastrophic financial loss
and this is why the cost of health care is going up more than
inflation. Insurance is not an entitlement anymore than eating or
breathing.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
'the rich do not have money'
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:52 ET by JDWThe general public is unaware of how many companies which are pushing sales to increase stock values. They are focusing on a sellout point. Nobody wants to face government takeover.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Jobs, jobs, jobs ... Spending, spending, spending
Bruzilla....good points.
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:29 ET by celatorBruzilla....good points. I'd like to respond to your comments about who pays for health care with the tale of our sad experience in Maine. It should serve as a catastropic warning to all those who are pushing Obama's health plan.
Beginning in 1993, the state of Maine has tried to implement "universal medical coverage" (with exactly the elements the Obama "health care plan" insists on currently--guaranteed issue and community ratings, among other Obama mandates).
For Mainers, the Obama Health Care type "reform" is not a theory. We are living it, and it is hell.
It has been, to date, a complete financial catastrophe for the citizens of Maine as well as the state treasury. I've included links below to give you and others details on the how and why of this disaster.
Some of the outcomes for citizens of Maine have been:
1. In 1993, there were 11 non-group insurance providers in Maine. Today there is one. The other providers were driven out by state policies and regulations. This has resulted in the 2d highest premium rate in the US for Mainers.
2. The state of Maine owes Maine hospitals over one-half billion dollars because of the enormous patient load driven by "guaranteed issue", among other reasons. The state refuses to pay the hospitals Medicaid reimbursements. Because hospitals receive 60% plus of their income from these (and Medicare) payments, many rural (read small) Maine hospitals are teetering on closing their doors. A disaster in the making.
3. In 1993, The number of Maine people on with traditional non-group insurance was 90,000. In 2009, the number is 29,000. People can't afford the premiums in a one-insurance-provider state.
4. In 1993, the most common deductable in Maine was $150 a year. In 2009, it is $15,000.
And so on.There's lots more bad news.
For you and other who might be interested in our boots-on-the-ground, real life experience, doing it right now, with Obama-type health care "reform", I provide the following links. Lots of details there and a forecast of what would happen if Obama's "reform" is passed.
Read and weep.(and learn from the mistakes made in Maine).
http://www.mainepolicy.org/library/resources/178.pdf
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/108156.html
http://www.mainepolicy.org/library/resources/177.pdf
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Excellent post,
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 01:12 ET by stratmanExcellent post, celator!
The links provide a concise review of the critical breakdown in Maine's healthcare system.
This info needs to be widely distributed to Americans.
A new stage in evolution
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:22 ET by KC MulvilleConsider the progression of healthcare.
These three stages are all still in the private sector. Now, think of the assumptions behind "healthcare reform."
How did we get from 1,2,3 to these assumptions? When did it stop being a private transaction, and when did we vote on the government takeover?
No one noticed or voted on it. What happened is that politicians simply, on their own, asserted authority because of the "urgency" of the situation. The media never challenged it; chances are, they never thought about. It was all just taken for granted. We just woke up one day with an assumption firmly entrenched.
Jefferson said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Our media (and to be fair, we too) never noticed an assumption being slipped into our collective unconscious.
Healthcare is not a right. The government has no authority to protect it, manage it, or compete in it. That's a set of completely false assumptions.
Your second stage is
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:40 ET by BruzillaYour second stage is incorrect. Insurance companies did not get involved to finance healthcare, nor is that their purpose now. The sole purpose of insurers is to manage "shared risk" funds, which means people pool their resources and use that money to pay of a shared risk. This is a concept that most people do not understand, and as a result they usually believe that if an insurer can avoid paying a claim, that they get to keep that money and increase their profits, which is completely wrong. Insurers do not work like a bank, and don't hold onto money to finance healthcare.
True
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:34 ET by KC MulvilleMy point was that the involvement of insurers was still a private sector function. With insurers, instead of each individual paying the doctor immediately out of pocket, you can pool your resources and lay off expenses among the participants. But that's still in the private sector.
IIRC, employer-offered
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 01:45 ET by stratmanIIRC, employer-offered medical insurance took hold during WWII. Government mandated a wage freeze during the war. In order to attract and retain employees, businesses and the insurance industry were allowed to provide medical insurance to employees as a seemingly "silent" source of additional compensation.
On top of this, Government allowed medical insurers to thrive with less fear of federal anti-trust regulations after the boys came home from WWII in order to spur business, employment and the well being of the public.
So, Government has been instrumental in solidfying the relationship of Business with Healthcare Insurers in the 20th Century.
It won't matter. After a couple more years of Obamunism...
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:33 ET by R D Helm...there won't be an wealthy people left in America.
In fact, there might not even be an America.
-Dave
...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated. - PrezBO
I wonder how...
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:39 ET by Prester John....Harry, Charlie, the Perkie One, and the rest of BHO's cheerleaders in the MSM feel about having the 5.4% surtax slapped onto those nice salaries they have.
I would just love to hear what they have to say about it.
"The Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies"
www.campaignforliberty.com
All Senators and House Reps
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:10 ET by vrwc13All Senators and House Reps probably are all in this group!
...hmmm, I wondor how they will vote when they realize it's THEM too!
v
Morris on Obamacare
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:41 ET by slickwillie2001Dick Morris has an excellent column today pointing out how Obamacare means the end of Medicare. It's Medicare patients that stand to lose the most by the rationing that is inevitable, and in fact significant cuts in Medicare have been planned by the Bamster. Medicare was nearly a third rail in previous elections; what has happened that makes it a bargaining chip now? On the other hand, the greatest beneficiary of Obamacare will be the illegal alien. Why is the Bamster transferring wealth from our senior citizens to illegal aliens?
And where is the AARP? They were a juggernaut in previous elections. They seem to be on permanent vacation since the election of 2008 began.
Obama Will Repeal Medicare: http://www.dickmorris.com
I love this.... It is so
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:02 ET by motherbeltI love this....
It is so ironic that the elderly - who were so vigilant when Bush
proposed to change Social Security - are so relaxed about the Obama
health care proposals.
That's because they think they are going to get everything they need, without having that money taken out of their SS payments every month!
They haven't realized that under Obama's plan they will eventually be set adrift (figuratively) like those old Eskimos...
And as for the AARP, who support Obama's plan because they hope to profit from it...a pox on the whole organization.
AARP has long-sinced ceased to be a group which advocates for seniors (what kind of "retired" group solicits members when they turn 50 years old, and are in their peak earning years????). They are now a highly sophisticated "Sam's Club" or "Costco" selling everything from vacations to car insurance, to make a profit.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
Sheeple.
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:42 ET by R D HelmSheeple.
-Dave
...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated. - PrezBO
The problem with taxing only
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:45 ET by Dan The Man 2The problem with taxing only the rich is that it will end up taxing us all. We only need to look at income tax and how it only taxed the most wealthy and now it gets us all. Perhaps we need to give people a history lesson when they spout off this claptrap.
AMT Too
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:46 ET by slickwillie2001You can also look at the AMT and how mere inflation resulted in more taxpayers every year being sucked into its maw. The breakpoints Congress is looking at for all the new tax increases will not be inflation indexed, so it will happen again. Inflation that will be caused by the Bamster's printing of money will make it worse this time.
The inherent problem is that
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:46 ET by cajunkingkongThe inherent problem is that this "tax" on the wealthy is but a small part of the total increase in taxes that this administration has, is, and will continue to put into place to fund all of these initiatives for those who "can't afford it".
Our national debt has already gone over a trillion dollars for the budget year, and the rosy projections of growth used as a base to fund his programs are so far off that much more taxing is coming soon. June 2009 revenue from taxes is down over 25% from June 2008, continuing a downward trend since the beginning of the year. Nowhere have these shortfalls been accounted for in the process.
This administration has not gotten one projection right yet. Remember, if we passed the "crisis" stimulus bill then revenue would go up, unemployment would approach 8% and then trek downward, 3 million new jobs would be created, and we would see the positive effects from the stimulus almost immediately. None of that has come to pass. Why have any faith in what they now say?
Obama's numbers are sinking like a rock. I can only hope that his continued policy of "train wreck management" leads to responsible representation come election time.
I wonder how many small businesses will close because of this?
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:53 ET by R D HelmObama and his Marxist commie pillagers aren't going to rest until we have30% unemployment.
-Dave
...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated. - PrezBO
Obama: America's First Anti-American President
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:10 ET by R D Helmhttp://bit.ly/18deuQ-
-Dave
"...stimulus plan is 'working exactly as we had anticipated.'" - PrezBO
Dave
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:15 ET by ricklail"Obama is Jimmy Carter on steroids." Now that is good. May have to use that in a letter to the editor.
Semper suprene nitens
North Carolina now has the worst government money can buy.
Obama birth:Military caves, revokes deploy order
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:22 ET by Jack BauerThis is interesting...
From World Net Daily...
Yes, Jack
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:37 ET by BlondeI was just reading that (it's linked on Drudge).
I'm sure the reason they revoked his orders was to save themselves the time and expense of flying him to Afghanistan and then having to fly him back to put him in the Stockade.
They'll court martial him next. He's a mere major....Chicago mafia tactics will take him down in the blink of an eye.
Poor guy hasn't "won" anything. He's probably just ruined his life.
I hope he fails, too.
blonde -- we need any JAG
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:42 ET by Jack Bauerblonde -- we need any JAG officers on NB to chime in!
I am no JAG, but
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:45 ET by NL207I am no JAG, but all officers had to pass a course of study in the UCMJ prior to commissioning. Lawful / unlawful orders was one of the topics.
It is the duty of every officer to disobey all unlawful orders just as it is his or her duty to obey all lawful orders. This is a fuzzy area. The officer receiving the order is responsible for deciding if that order is lawful. That is, he or she may be held accountable for obeying an unlawful order or disobeying a lawful order.
In this situiation, the Major has taken the liberty of consulting an attorney as to the lawfulness of an order he received and has raised a specific, written objection, to that order. Normally, an officer will then obey the questioned order after written objection has be filed, an unusual event in its own right, to avoid 'official' rapproach. The Major did not do this.
The fact the Army has rescinded the disputed order tells me the Major is not going to be court martialied for insubordination. He cannot be punished for disobeying a rescinded order. This does not mean he will not be subject to disciplinary action.
Blonde is right. The Major's career in the military is over. His next fitness report will be a dusey. He may also be subjected to a BoI, which although it lacks the full power of a Court Martial, has the authority to demote or discharge.
NL...it won't be pretty, whatever happens
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:06 ET by BlondeI don't know why court after court has rejected any attempt to probe the legitimacy of Obama's presidency in regard to the documentation of his birth (including statements by his granny that he was born in Kenya, and also his college applications which may prove he was "foreign born").
IIRC, many have been thrown out due to lack of standing (?)....it's really too bad that his orders were withdrawn. Also unfortunate is that we'll most likely never know who was responsible for this pre-empt, how far up the chain of command did this order originate?
I admire the man's guts, he knew what was likely to happen.
I hope he fails, too.
Blonde, I'm thinking that
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:08 ET by celatorBlonde, I'm thinking that the Major's order was rescinded because Obama's people wanted to avoid the process of discovery in the search for Obama's birth certificate. I dunno.
For sure the good major's career is over, though, unless he wants to spend his career counting planes on the tarmac--the famous POT punishment.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
I dont know NL. But after
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:26 ET by bassndudeI dont know NL. But after raising the question as to the legality of the order and it being resended. That brings in the "obay your last order first." gig. His last order is not to go. His fitness report may well be lacking, but I think that will depend largely on the reporting officer.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
" will depend largely on
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:30 ET by NL207" will depend largely on the reporting officer"
I agree. And his CO if those are not one and the same.
Jack,What's more
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:31 ET by CacciatoJack,
What's more interesting is that this clown VOLUNTEERED for the tour in May.
Now all of the sudden he doesn't think Obama is president? Riiiight.
Where were his objections when he volunteered?
All he's done is make himself look like a coward while USING the war to to push a political (and absurd) agenda.
He whines while his fellow soldiers fight. What a hero!
Maybe he deliberately did
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:38 ET by motherbeltMaybe he deliberately did it just for this purpose.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
"He whines while his fellow
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:23 ET by NL207"He whines while his fellow soldiers fight. What a hero! "
Tell us about yor service.
Why would the military have
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:51 ET by ckc1227Why would the military have anything to show for Obama? They don't keep up with the birth certificates in this country.
"She continued, "They just said, 'Order revoked.' No explanation. No reasons – just revoked.""
You sure came to a lot of conclusions then for a decision rendered with no explanation, and no reasons. Frankly, your overreaction doesn't help your case. You haven't won anything, and the soldier in question has likely lost big time....as he should. I'm guessing he can kiss the military career good-bye.
Re military caves
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 16:43 ET by slickwillie2001The hypocrisy from the lefties on this case is thick. For the past eight years they have hailed anyone that fought deployment in President George W. Bush's 'illegal wars' as heroes. Now suddenly this particular one is a worthless chickenhawk etc, etc.
The cancelled deployment order is interesting, I wonder if we will ever know where that order was triggered from. The soldier is more than willing to go to Afghanistan, he is only questioning the legality of his orders. His first loyalty is to the Constitution, as it should be. I'd like to see a proper argument by the legal talking heads on Fox News re what exactly his obligations are. I was shocked that Fox News even reported a couple of days ago that the court had ruled that he had standing or something like that, in effect allowing his case to go forward.
I think they threw in the towel Slick
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:16 ET by general companyTo keep the case from being discussed, or going to trial. Now others are going to start using this same excuse, this is just the begining. That was an error rescinding those orders.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
gc... I tend to agree
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 19:52 ET by bigtimergc...
I tend to agree with you here.
Lou Dobbs just had an excellent on about all of this....it was great in my opinion. Catch it if you can later...or I will try to find a link later.
I learned a few things I did not know about the BC too...I didn't know the FEC doesn't require a BC....it's up to the states.
No wonder he moved to Chicago Ill and started this path to the top...let alone his college records being sealed.
I agree with you...this may be a huge mistake about rescinding the order...now his lawyer is sure going after O.
This is some turn of events...along with yesterday in Ca.
Hmmm....interesting turn of events.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Have you ordered yours yet???
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:25 ET by IgnatzJFahrquarSaw this yesterday while watching my DVR'd "Redeye" .
I know how I'd water it.
"You should always tell the truth, because if you tell the truth you make it the other person's problem." Sean Connery
Chia Obama!!!!
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:48 ET by BlondeI was somewhat reluctant to click...not knowing what "this" was.
Like the cat, my curiosity overcame me (I'm glad).
That's gooooooood!
I hope he fails, too.
5.4 percent? That's just
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:53 ET by NonArabOmar5.4 percent? That's just to get the foot in the door. That 5.4 is gonna go up if it ever passes. Give Obama an inch and he'll take a mile. 5.4% surtax on 1% of the population? That's really gonna pay for nationalised healthcare? Yeah right.
If socialist Europe is any example... I don't trust them numbers.
Crist vs. Rubio
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:06 ET by BlondeThis isn't good news....I hope the white knight (Sarah Palin) rides to the rescue soon.
I hope he fails, too.
White knight? You can't be
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 16:58 ET by CacciatoWhite knight? You can't be serious.
Nobodoy who's anybody wants (or needs) Palin's help.
Unless of course they're trying to get their kids on magazine covers. She's a pro at that.
Are you out to proove
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:38 ET by general companyHow big a moron you can be? Trust me when I say we are all impressed
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
→ GC
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:41 ET by Cool ArrowHe's playing stupid - and winning!
Really?
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 09:32 ET by UnsaneRick Perry would disagree.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
A key component of Obama's healthcare plan - Assisted Suicide
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:36 ET by Rush FanThe leftist Huffington Post has an article titled: Conductor Edward Downes And Wife Joan Die In Swiss Suicide Clinic that describes the death of one of Britain's most renowned conductors and his wife by assisted suicide.
The article reminded me of the effects of Obama's healthcare plan if it is enacted. Rationing of healthcare will surely follow. How else to keep costs under control.
A major portion of healthcare, estimated to be 60 percent, is spent on the elderly. A 2007 CDC report estimated that "The cost of caring for aging U.S. residents by 2030 will add 25% to the nation's overall health care costs unless those residents actively work to stay healthy and preventive services are provided to help them..."
What better way for Obama to pay for his healthcare plan than to focus cost cutting on rationing healthcare for "old folks." Obama's current proposal is to cut Medicare and Medicaid costs by $313 billion over the next decade. That's just for starters.
It won't happen immediately, but once the citizens of the United States, especially the elderly, adjust to rationing then elderly with major illnesses, perhaps requiring surgery or long-term care, will be encouraged to forgo treatment and end their lives for the greater good of the masses. To this end our government will establish assisted suicide clinics. After all, Big Brother has compassion.
Eventually, the Government will decide not only who will live and who will die, but when!
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Understand something about liberalism. They never stop until they get what they want, and when they get what they want, it's never enough. That's why it's a constant thing to have to oppose them. You can't join forces with them, you can't moderate them, you can't slow them down by joining them, you can't make them like you and have them change their agenda. They have to be stopped.” ~ Rush Limbaugh
→ Assisted Suicide
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:44 ET by Cool ArrowI think the real story here is the fawning and cooing comments over at HuffPo.
They appear to be willing to go and do likewise for the good of the state.
While a little over the top
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:47 ET by dscottWhile a little over the top in claiming the government is going to count of suicide as a cost prevention measure, it does make the point why Obama is including Medicare. The Medicare Trust Fund (pile of IOUs like SS) will soon be empty, thus forcing a tax increase, a benefit cut, social spending cuts or all ON A MASSIVE SCALE. By lumping Medicare into health care reform, the Dems hope to obfuscate reality. They made promises they couldn't keep, WHAT's NEW? And worse yet, if they had to pay as they went for Medicare, based on demographics, all the social programs would have to be cut. Why is that a problem for Dems? Social programs equals votes from the bottom 50% of the population. The truth is the pols embezzled money from the Medicare Trust Fund just like SS and now they have to make good, and like all ponzi schemes with their overblown promises must continue to take in gullible marks who get little if any benefit to pay for those on the top tier lest the whole scheme be exposed for the fraud it is.
Medicare has gotten by for a while by paying less than reimbursement rates, that is no longer enough, now they must drag in more people into government healthcare to support the scam.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Old couple kill theselves
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:04 ET by Jack BauerOld couple kill theselves rather than rely on Britain's government run health service!
Another triumph for socialist healthcare.
I made a mistake in my post when I wrote that the elderly
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 14:40 ET by Rush Fanwill be encouraged to forgo treatment and end their lives. My mistake was assuming that the elderly would have a choice as to whether to forgo treatment or not. A government bureaucrat will make that choice for them by not authorizing further treatment, just as they will make those type of decisions for everyone in Obama's heathcare plan.
From Wikipedia:
Wiki debate: Should assisted suicide be legalized?
Rush, you are correct. The
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 09:49 ET by celatorRush, you are correct. The decision to live or die will not be ours or our physician's.
As in all other countries with Obama-type national health care, the decision of whether we receive needed medical care, or are left to rot and die in a hospital bed, will be made by previously determined government guidelines. Under Obama's plan, these will established and approved by Congressional democrats and spineless republicans like Olympia Snowe.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Native Care???
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:11 ET by slickwillie2001I have seen many articles comparing possible Obamacare plans to Canadian or European or Romneycare etc, but I did not realize that there is a single-payer healthcare system in the USA for American Natives that should also be looked at. As you might expect, it is more like what you would find in Cuba. They seem to practice rationing by date, so if you get sick you should do so before the date when the money for that year runs out:
Single-Payer Health Care in Action: http://www.americanthinker.com
Native Care???
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:28 ET by slickwillie2001I have seen many articles comparing possible Obamacare plans to Canadian or European or Romneycare etc, but I did not realize that there is a single-payer healthcare system in the USA for American Natives that should also be looked at. As you might expect, it is more like what you would find in Cuba. They seem to practice rationing by date, so if you get sick you should do so before the date when the money for that year runs out:
Single-Payer Health Care in Action: http://www.americanthinker.com
Amen, I'll pray to that!
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:54 ET by alwaysconhttp://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/pastor-drake-prays-obamas-death-im-...
→ Andrea Yates
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:55 ET by Cool ArrowMSM provided copious coverage of Andrea Yates, who killed her children in Houston.
America should be following the case of Banita Jacks, who killed her four daughters for similar reasons as those given by Yates.
Yes, MSM, we understand why you're not covering this story.
Banita Jacks is black, and that makes all the difference as far as the MSM is concerned.
--> probably didn't humskol either...
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 14:49 ET by vrwc13... or fit into any of hillary's VRWC criteria!
v
Nothing new under the sun...
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 14:20 ET by PrairieSkyOf course Joe the Plumber was right...
The left is doing now what is always has done when it wants to fund something that the country doesn't have the money for...Tax and spend...Just say those 3 little words to any Dem/lib, and sit back and watch the smoke come out of their ears! They absolutely hate it because they know it's true....tax and spend...tax and spend...This is what the Dem/libs do, and Obama and Co. are raising it to a high art.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
→ Shots fired at Senate
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 17:51 ET by Cool ArrowFOX reporting shots fired at the Senate Office Building.
Anybody else hearing this?
Close
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:11 ET by RukusI read shots fired near the Capitol. Not sure right now.
Gary
I want my country back!
→ Yeah Ruk
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:13 ET by Cool ArrowSomething like a block away from the hearings.
From Onenewsnow---
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 18:34 ET by misterbill"The NEA recently held its annual convention in San Diego, California, where members voted on two issues of importance to those involved in the culture war. One of those issues was whether the union would support same-gender marriage. According to Jeralee Smith, co-founder of the Conservative Educators Caucus, the resolution passed by roughly a two-thirds majority."
It's not hard to see why so many of our children are leaning toward "alternate life styles", hell, their teachers advocate it.
Silly me
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 09:46 ET by Unsane"One of those issues was whether the union would support same-gender marriage. According to Jeralee Smith, co-founder of the Conservative Educators Caucus, the resolution passed by roughly a two-thirds majority." Silly me. I thought teachers taught things of use, like, I don't know, reading, writing, and arithmetic. Thus I ALSO figured this is what teachers would be discussing at their conventions.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
July 16
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 00:54 ET by UnsaneJuly 16 is almost upon us. For some of you out East it is already here.
Every day is a good day to fly the Stars and Stripes, but few days are better than July 16. Put your flags out!
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Single payer here we come,
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 10:03 ET by dscottSingle payer here we come, liar, liar pants on fire - President Obama. You won't get to keep your health insurance once the legislation is passed because it will be illegal to buy any other coverage outside of the employer's or the government's.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current
Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill
clearly states:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health
insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual
in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after
the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course,
exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't
be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for
themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
dscott...be free to buy individual plans from private carriers?
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 10:50 ET by vrwc13...does this put the Christian co-op plans out of business?
v