For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Bush’s Legacy May End Up Better Than You Think.
On foreign policy, Bush emphasizes that he pursued a “freedom agenda” and spread freedom to Iraq. While the Iraqi future is far from clear, it is possible that the country becomes a democracy and a reliable ally of the U.S. If that transformation is completed, then it could well be viewed as a turning point in the war on terror. On the home front, to virtually everyone’s surprise, we’ve avoided a terrorist attack since Sept. 11...We are in the midst of the worst recession of our generation, yet it is hard to attribute this crisis to anything that Bush actively did. If his large deficits produced skyrocketing interest rates that crushed the economy, then the argument that Bush caused the mess we’re in might hold water. If he was the one who deregulated the financial sector, then we could justifiably blame him for our predicament.
Read the whole thing and share your thoughts about how history will view President Bush.



















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I can say with certainity
December 23, 2008 - 10:33 ET by taterI can say with certainity at this point...he will have been a much better president than Obama.
www.theholyrosary.org
"There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we can not resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary." -Sister Lucia
President Bush
December 23, 2008 - 10:40 ET by iveseenitallThank you so much for keeping us safe, Mr. President. My wife thanks you, my children thank you, and I thank you. We love you! And we love the troops who sacrificed so much for all the people of this nation, ( including the ungrateful, ignorant media scum ).
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I think history will reward
December 23, 2008 - 10:37 ET by BDI think history will reward president Bush's foreign policy, but will hold over some questions regarding some of his personnel choices.
Harriet Meirs, Gonzoles, McClellan etc will not go over well. He will be remembered as someone who was TOO faithful to his freinds.
Regarding domestic spending, I think it will be a case of Guns AND butter simultraneously. He sought to insulate himself from attacks like "We could have X if we were not spending so much fighting terror" from the left. He succeeded in that their moans for greater spending on domestic issues ring hollow since we did both.
Wether that was wise it up to history.
He will rank higher than his predecessor WJC.
President Bush's two terms
December 23, 2008 - 11:04 ET by rimskyPresident Bush's two terms in office will be remembered mostly for the War in Iraq. He responded with might and he knew his legacy would suffer for it, but he did it anyway. That's Moral Courage. I wish I knew him on a personal basis. I think he would be a Steadfast Friend and an all around Genuine Guy.
Good morning rimski
December 23, 2008 - 11:20 ET by cocodrieI fully agree. I pray that the Chosen One won't be remembered for war and destruction here in the States and murdered Americans abroad.
BHO will silently benefit
December 23, 2008 - 12:08 ET by rimskyBHO will silently benefit from all that President Bush has accomplished in the WOT. BHO will only credit Bush when it serves him and then it will only be to compare and contrast a perceived improvement over any successes that Bush realized, highlighting only BHO's allegeded accomplishments. I.E., President Bush will never be praised or respected in a positive way for anything. At least not by the incoming administration, and certainly not by the leftist media.
A general rule of thumb
December 23, 2008 - 11:12 ET by AuVoxis that the more the Left reviles someone, the better they are for the country.
AuVox
The Arch Enemy
December 23, 2008 - 12:16 ET by choselife3xOf MY enemy, is my friend. :)
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Not great, but certainly not bad either...
December 23, 2008 - 11:35 ET by Doc_NavyI think that President bush will get his due praise, but like most decent leaders it won't be till after he's gone. I rememeber all the mud thrown at Ronald Reagan while he was president, and now I see articles published in liberal blogs and media outlets where they are yearning for the days of the Reagan Era.
Bush has been under constant attack by the Left and the liberal biased media from the start. He inherited a soup-sandwich from the Clinton administration that played delay games with problem foreign Governments like North Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, China, and Iran. Appeasement was the name of the game then. When Bush took over an turned off the money faucet, the delaying stopped.
How anyone cannot remember that 9/11 was a direct result of the Clinton administration's policies and actions is beyond me. Same with our current problems with North Korea.
I agree that in the end, President Bush will be remembered as the American President who took on Terrorism pretty much BY HIMSELF... and won. Especially if a major Terrorist attack successfully hits the US during "The Messiah's" reign. (Which I believe is a serious possibility.)
Bush should definately be ranked higher than Clinton, Carter, and (if things continue as they have) Obama.
Doc
Well said
December 23, 2008 - 11:45 ET by Reality CheckThis article says mostly what I've been thinking. Great job pointing out that we haven't been attacked, , that few of us believed that we would go 7 years without being attacked, and that Iraq may be the proof that the West (or America at least) is capable of standing up against thugs.
Regarding the assertion that "The prescription-drug benefit wasn’t paid for" , the jury is still out - we have NO IDEA how much money Medicare will save by getting drugs to seniors who need them, reducing costly doctor and hospital visits. NO IDEA! So let's reserve judgment on that until we have a few years of numbers.
Bush was going to fix ALL of the entitlements. Prescription drugs for seniors would reduce expensive emergency room visits. High deductible plans and HSAs for workers would reduce the costs of health care on a macro level by introducing competition and creating a free market.
He was going to fix Social Security too, remember? The Republicans in Congress wimped out on him to save their jobs - and look how well that worked.
Count me proudly among the 29%, thank you very much.
Reality Check
An interesting turn of phrase....
December 23, 2008 - 11:59 ET by JeffWeimerStrieff posted on this subject on Redstate a little while ago.
http://www.cnn.com/2...
My takeaway (other than the despicable act) comes from the end of Paragraph 11...
“He ran as a Democrat.”
This implies he only ran as a Democrat out of convenience, thereby
leading the reader to assume he’s “not really a Democrat”, but maybe
even a Republican, or at least an Independent. Never mind the
continuous associations with Dem politicians and administrations. That
way, there’s no “culture of corruption” label that can be hung on the
Democrats.
Why, CNN has added a whole layer of nuance to the game of “name that party”!
Census Estimates
December 23, 2008 - 12:03 ET by CaringwhiteguyThe Census Bureau is out with its 2008 population estimate. The Bureau states there are approximately 304 million people living in the US. Estimates are available for each state as well. For example the population of Alaska is estimated to be 686,293.
Because participants in NB are so well informed we all know there are 435 voting Congressional Districts in the US House. Dividing the 304 million population number by 435 tells us the average US Congressional District has a population of 701,000 . . . remarkably similar to the population of Alaska.
Therefore here's my suggestion. If governing a state with such a small population (686,000) doesn't provide the experience for higher office, then the top legislative office holder from a Congressional District of approximately the same population (701,000) should be unqualified for higher office as well.
All pundits, media mavens and politicians should hereby declare that no member of the United States House of Representatives is qualified for the Presidency or Vice Presidency of the United States.
Thomas Sowell's column
December 23, 2008 - 12:47 ET by motherbeltThomas Sowell's column today should be required reading for everyone on The Obama's economic team!
The money grafs:
The rise in unemployment after the stock market crash of 1929 was a blip on the screen compared to the soaring unemployment rates reached later, after a series of government interventions.
For nearly three consecutive years, beginning in February 1932, the unemployment rate never fell below 20 percent for any month before January 1935, when it fell to 19.3 percent, according to the Vedder and Gallaway statistics.
In other words, the evidence suggests that it was not the "problem" of the financial crisis in 1929 that caused massive unemployment but politicians' attempted "solutions."
Will they learn from history?
Or just assume that they are the ones who can do it the "right" way, and fix things?
Will they learn from
December 23, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Dan The Man 2Will they learn from history? Or just assume that they are the ones who can do it the "right" way, and fix things? No they will not. I was listening to NPR and they had some pundits on. There was an intelegent question asked about teh kenseyan theories and how they said it wa bad for teh government to control things and throw money at the probelms.
The caller went on to say teh 1929 crash and subsequent depression was made worse and continued on longer because the government did just that and the 70's were made worse by doing that also. So the caller asked why does the government and specifically the pundent think anything will turn out diffwerent.
The pundent then refuted the assertion and went on with some BS. So we do not learn from History.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
→ Losing my shirt
December 23, 2008 - 13:20 ET by Cool ArrowIn response to Ford's decision to hold off on grabbing the cash, I bought 377 shares yesterday @ $2.76/sh. It's at 2.16 and still dropping today.
That's what I get for investing with my heart instead of my head.
Cool A...
December 23, 2008 - 15:55 ET by vrwc13Hang in there.
I have been pondering doing the same.
Was at 7 a year ago, 15 5 years ago, and peaked back before that at 35!
Now at 2.16 but where will it be mid-2009? Or 5 years from now?
v
→ That's the plan vrwc
December 23, 2008 - 16:19 ET by Cool ArrowI invested $900 sort of as my show of support. I don't own a Ford, but I'll buy one if they can grow a spine and stand up to the tapeworm eating away at them.
I'm a salary employee in a union plant in a Right to Work State.
Other than the Christmas turkey The wage earners get every year, I haven't seen the union win much for their constituents in the 34 years I've worked there.
What I have seen, and continue to see, is a sense of entitlement to laziness among those who have the seniority.
It's sad that the gung-ho employees can't get paid for pulling their weight as well as that of the lifers.
Cool A...
December 23, 2008 - 17:03 ET by vrwc13I see it as a good risk with any money I can afford to spend at risk.
I have been buying Fords for the past 10 years and have been pretty happy with them. Had not had one since my folks had our 1966 Mustang convertable!
I have spent 35 years in the Engineering/Construction biz, and admired the unions years back in supplying qualified workers, including in my Alaska Pipeline days. BUT other than that, the corruption and graft have been a cancer of huge proportions destroying them from within.
v
The Bush legacy exists - only the MSM censored the news!
December 23, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Gary HallThe Bush legacy exists - only the MSM censored the news!
Yea. Anyone remember Larry King, Wolf Blitzer or the network evening news, fighting over first dubs to get these voices out to the wanting for feel good news public?
In October, at the President's Conference on International Development, as is often the case, praise for President Bush and his administration was in the air - for doing what? Doing the walk - not just the talk.
Sir Bob Geldof (Humanitarian activist - and Live 8 organizer)"
President Ellen Sirleaf Johnson, of Liberia (the first freely elected woman in Africa's history):
See - you feel good already - and it didn't take putting the MSM's man in the WH, did it?
PS - copy and paste the transcripts if you want a record. Best I can tell the media skipped out of town. Videos are also linked on the site. (;~> gary
Pres. G W Bush's Legacy to Who?
December 23, 2008 - 15:13 ET by 1611LilacLady* Pushing his globalist agenda to unite the USA, Mexico and Canada * Continuing to be 'friends' with Saudi Arabia from whom 16 of the 19 terrorists of 9/11 came. It took Pres. Bush six years to admit it.
But what really matters is his accounting to the Lord some day.
* A big part of the President's agenda wa trying to appease Israel's enemy and break up the land the Lord gave Israel. (sadly the liberal Israeli leadership is agreeing) Genesis 27:29 KJV The Lord warns about what will happen to those who harm Israel.
Oh that Benjamin Netanyahu could gain the Prime Minister position.
* The President proclaimed that 'Christians' & Muslims pray to the same god. When he received rightly deserved outrage from Believers across the country, he dug in his heels and repeated it again as his firm belief.
I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. KJV
The President who says he's a Christian has 'worshipped' in Japanese shrines. (Exodus 34:14 KJV)
And only recently in an interview on Nightline, Pres. Bush said the Bible is not to be taken literally. This gives freedom, dangerously, to people who think they can pick and choose from what the Lord teaches and whether to believe it or not.
http://christianpost.com/article/20081209/bush-not-a-bible-literalist-talks-of-belief-in-god.htm
Pres. G W Bush joins a long list of former Presidents who deliberately misused Executive Orders. He joins former Presidents, many who left a criminal and/or scandalous legacy, by appeasing the globalist powers.
That we have been safe since 9/11 is not because of anything Pres. G W Bush has done . . it is but by the grace of God.
Merry Christmas To All
Isaiah 5:20a Woe unto them who call evil good, and good evil. . . KJV
That we have been safe
December 23, 2008 - 17:51 ET by Dan The Man 2That we have been safe since 9/11 is not because of anything Pres. G W Bush has done . . it is but by the grace of God.
Even as you write this you dont understand do you? Read this and understand God placed President Bush to do his bidding. Bush is a man nothing more nothing less as Adam was and all the men in teh Bible were. They were sinners one and all with flaws, some more serious than others.
Seems there was this one man named Saul of Tarsus, a low down lilly livered man whose mission in life was to scour the memory of Christianity from the world. But God used him, turned him around and made him teh centerpiece of his work on earth.
God used Bush and though he may have flaws he was great for teh country and kept your sorry ass whole and safe from terror. I believe Bush will be remembered as a great man and a great President, history will be kind to him.
So next time understand what you write as we are all here by the grace of God. But remember He places men and women on this earth to make sure we are safe. All things work to teh glory of God, even Obama as President.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dan: I am not sure you
December 23, 2008 - 19:19 ET by BDDan:
I am not sure you will get through to this one. Something does not seem quite right....
Bush's legacy will be a mixed bag: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
December 23, 2008 - 15:40 ET by R D HelmThe Good:
The War against the Islamic barbarians.
After eight years of Bill Clinton's do-less-than-nothing approach to the re-awakening of the Islamic war against the civilized world, George W. Bush decided enough was enough, finally drew the line and stood up to these evil people. He began using the US military in its intended role, which is to actually defend this country, something the derelict CIC Bill Clinton could not bring himself to do, as he was much too busy sending our military off on half-baked missions to Somalia and the Balkans, two places we had no business being.
Whether or not our actions in Afghanistan and Iraq were worth the effort and the cost, only time will tell. I realize many well-meaning people are holding out hope that these two nations will eventually stabilize at the hands of more "moderate" elements of Islam, and thus provide a counterweight to its more radical adherents.
Sadly, I do not share in this optimism, as I do not believe there is any such thing as "moderate" Islam.
One other good thing Mr. Bush did was to allow American workers to keep more of what they earned. No, it wasn't the passage of the Fair Tax, but at least it was a move in the right direction.
The Bad:
The hideous increase in the size and scope of the federal government.
Unfortunately, Mr. Bush, along with a republican congress, engineered what was essentially a doubling in the size and scope of the federal government over a six-year period. They also managed to create yet another entitlement program with the Prescription Drug fiasco, which was not needed, yet will add even more to the already crippling, if not fatal, overall financial liability that our descendants will be facing. This, by any measure, GWOT or not, was completely inexcusable.
Then there was his inexplicable signing of John McCain's precious Campaign Finance Reform bill, which, in the time since its passage has proven to be a complete joke.
Mr. Bush also teamed up with McCain and Ted Kennedy in an effort to cram an "immigration reform" bill down our throats. Anyone with an I.Q. above freezer temperature instantly recognized that lunacy for what it was-amnesty for illegal criminals.
I must say I was quite proud to join the massive effort, both here at NB and other places, to do my part in killing that hideous bill. I still see that period as our finest hour here at NB, as the MSM was doing all it could to deceive the American people about the true nature of that proposed legislation.
The Ugly:
The socialization of America.
Sorry, but I don't know of any other way to put this. Mr. Bush, for whatever reason, allowed himself to be hornswaggled by Paulson & Co. into signing a massive bailout package that I believed at the time was not really needed, and was probably going to be abused by some seriously corrupt people. It appears my initial fears have reached fruition, as nobody, not the feds nor the banks themselves, can or will tell us were trillions of our dollars are going.
The money itself isn't the only problem here, as these bailouts have ushered in what is essentially a government takeover of much of our financial industry, and now our automotive industry as well.
Many are saying this is only a temporary situation, and the government will only stick around until things improve.
Bullsh*t.
Other than the FCC getting out of CB radio involvement, can anyone tell me of a time in our history when government got into something and later got out of it? It isn't going to happen.
We have all been crying in our beer since November 4th over the fact that 65 million of our fellow citizens voted to put a devout socialist in the Oval Office.
The irony is that we already had one in there.
To me, this bailout mess is shaping up to be one of the biggest scandals in this nation's history.
I hope I am wrong, but it is beginning to look to me as if this is the last raiding of the public treasury just prior to the collapse of the republic.
How historians will view this man through the prism of 20-20 hindsight is anyone's guess. While I applaud his efforts at working to spread freedom in other parts of the world, it would have been nice had he put some effort into preserving it here at home.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
Oh great, Hill wants to
December 23, 2008 - 16:05 ET by bigtimerOh great, Hill wants to expand the State Dept., one of the main Depts. I would love to see GONE.
Going to be bringing in her old buddies too...
Same ol'...Same ol'...
Are we ready for the non-disclosure disclosure from O in about a half hour.
Just more BS coming in my opinion.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
→ Waiting for Twinkletoes
December 23, 2008 - 16:32 ET by Cool ArrowObama's gang is getting ready to spill their guts on involvement in Pay to Play Senate Seat scandal.
Expect to see a terse little statement without followup.
→ Just as I thought
December 23, 2008 - 16:34 ET by Cool ArrowPrepared statement released to the Press.
One or two contacts between Emanuel and Blago.
This doesn't make Fitzgerald look very good.
That's Chicago.
Just got the latest Boortz Blast in my email.
December 23, 2008 - 16:57 ET by R D HelmSome funny stuff I thought I'd share with you all:
Dog malfunction.
Golfing on Christmas.
What pets write in their diaries. (This is hilarious)
Best E-cards ever.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
golf on Christmas...
December 23, 2008 - 17:12 ET by vrwc13...has got to become a classic...thanks for the laugh!
v
btw: copied the "pets one too!
→ Feckless in Seattle
December 23, 2008 - 17:37 ET by Cool ArrowSeattle refuses to use salt on its roads, causing snowpacked roads passable only by gas-guzzling SUV's
You can't make this stuff up unless you're possessed by the ghost of Rod Serling.
I heard about this on Rush
December 23, 2008 - 17:44 ET by bigtimerI heard about this on Rush this morning, nothing like the work of the leftist greenies...that's progress for you!
Watching the water main break this morning was a riot to me...and I did wonder how long it would take for a congress-critter to come out and speak about O and the infrastructure, it wasn't long, Rush thought it was after he mentioned it on his show this morning, but I had heard one of them on msnbc before the show started.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Watching the water main
December 23, 2008 - 18:13 ET by Dan The Man 2Watching the water main break this morning was a riot to me - It was interesting to me amy cohorts also as that is our specialty. Water mains break all teh time, not the big ones like the 66" in Bethesda but the more mundane ones 8", 12" and such. They do cause an awful lot of damage in a localized area sometimes holes as large as 75 foot in radius.
In Dallas we have water mains up to 144" in diameter, they rarely rupture because they are over engineered. But a 72" main did blow in a heavily occupied park due to corrsion because teh contractor put it in wrong. It was 40 foot below ground and wjhen it blew it created a 60 foot hole and a stream of water probably 100' high.
Those mans are nightmares to turn off, it takes hours of coordination turning the right valves and shunting pumps. If not done carefully more damage may occur. And then the dewatering of teh main amy take hours or days depending on how much main was shut off. But looking at the river of water Im sure it was only hours.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
→ The Lincoln Bible
December 23, 2008 - 17:49 ET by Cool ArrowObama to be sworn in with his hand on Abe Lincoln's inaugural Bible.
I hope he takes his vow seriously.
Cool,
December 23, 2008 - 18:11 ET by RESTLESS 1What the hell is "that one's" obsession with Lincoln anyway? Now that we have a black president, it's okay to invoke Lincoln, the "Great Emancipator"???
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Bush Legacy
December 23, 2008 - 17:50 ET by shawn228George Bush has kept us safe, and the whole nation should be grateful for this dilligence. He also deserves praise for bringing the nation together as one after 911 and making us feel united.
Lets talk about some other stuff, His idea of privatizing social security failed, his guest worker program failed.
He invaded Iraq on faulty intelligence"This is not my opinion, this is the Presidents"
He decided to not have a spine and tell everyone it was none of their business why he fired the lawyers and said it was non political and as a result the AG and many people under him lost their jobs as well.
He was also spineless and could have pardoned Scooter Libby right away, but he decided to waste the courts time from months and months and when the verdict came, he communed his sentence so he could wait most likely for the last day in office to parden him.
He will leave office with a ridiculous large national debt and deficit, we are still fighting in two wars.
I don't believe he was a Neo Con or Nazi like some utra leftist may say, but i do not believe he was a particulaly good President.
He had my vote
→ Brit Hume
December 23, 2008 - 18:01 ET by Cool ArrowSpecial Report starts in 3 minutes. Brit Hume's last Anchor show.
Says he wants to spend lots of time studying the Bible and spending time with his grandkids.
I'll miss Brit. Brett Baier has quite a pair of shoes to fill.
I wish Brit all the luck in
December 23, 2008 - 18:15 ET by Clear thinkerI wish Brit all the luck in the world with his new life. He has been one of the few talking heads on TV that I could believe, and for that I respect him tremendously. He will be missed, but I'm guessing he has bigger and better things ahead of him.
Merry Christmas Brit!
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