For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: bailout on!
The proposed legislation would disburse the $700 billion in stages. The first $250 billion would be issued when the legislation is enacted while another $100 billion could be spent if the president decided it was needed. The remaining $350 billion would be subject to congressional review, said a statement issued by Pelosi's office early on Sunday morning.
What do you think of this deal, especially in the context of the following from the British Telegraph:
The US stock market could suffer a devastating crash with shares losing a third of their value this week if Hank Paulson’s financial bailout plan fails, US Treasury officials have warned. The financial system could face a meltdown of 1929 proportions unless US politicians succeed in their efforts for a $700bn rescue scheme, experts added.
What do you think? Was this deal necessary? Were the risks of inaction this great, or did Wall Street stoke the hysteria so that the bailout would, well, bail THEM out?
Comments Policy
700 WHAT????
September 28, 2008 - 09:34 ET by MrDebaterAll they have to do is have zero% capital gains tax, remove the mark to mark way of valueing assets(the over-reaction to Enron), and lower the corporate tax to 15% until the toxic assets are re-valued and put back into the market...none of which cost us, the taxpayers...except maybe a temporary loss of revenue to the gov't(which isn't a bad thing).
Since this was obviously done in the middle of the night...
September 28, 2008 - 09:58 ET by BadgerStateDaveWhat "earmarks" are attached to this beast, and who voted for it? That's what I'd like to know.
Why did the original 3-page
September 28, 2008 - 12:40 ET by ThisnThatWhy did the original 3-page bailout provision grow to over 100 pages? And what is in those pages?
And if a bailout bill does get approved, I will not forgive McCain if he doesn't step up and take 100% credit for it.
Update 1:30pm: Obama takes credit for going to Wash, D.C. and rescuing the bailout bill. Obama says McCain should receive NO CREDIT AT ALL for the bailout bill.
No matter what you may think, this bailout bill is going forward, so the question is: who gets credit? Look at what Obama is trying to do, so that the MSM points to him as "the hero". Obama knows that McCain would naturally get the credit unless Obama intercedes -- and that is exactly what he's doing. He's counting on the MSM to ignore the obvious -- which is exactly what they are going to do.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Setting It All Up
September 28, 2008 - 12:02 ET by JoelCTI am preparing my car with a bed, stove, and sink, so I can live in it, down by the river.
Or maybe not.
I have never known our current president to stand in front of the American people and tell a bald-fased lie, as the previous President did. Therefore, I have to assume this legislation is necessary.
However, I do not trust this current Congress to do the right thing without adding on a lot of wrong things.
As I said last week - Feds are the BIGGEST Land owners in USA
September 28, 2008 - 09:45 ET by JayTeeNow, it looks like the FEDS are Forced to add to their Land holdings, but with Improvements in the form of houses.
And with everyone in China, Europe, Africa, Canada, Mexico, etc.....wanting to come to America, This "Bailout" looks like a Good Long term investment, to BUY low and SELL High.
ONE BIG PROBLEM though, It's the Government handling the strings.
If they Treat it like the Potential for Federal land OIL LEASES, nothing will happen except WIND POWER from Congress.
The Republican Revolution will not be Televised
I doubt that would happen
September 28, 2008 - 09:51 ET by supercon"The US stock market could suffer a devastating crash with shares losing
a third of their value this week if Hank Paulson’s financial bailout
plan fails, US Treasury officials have warned. The financial system
could face a meltdown of 1929 proportions unless US politicians succeed
in their efforts for a $700bn rescue scheme, experts added."
Especially with everyone watching and working against it.I agree that the government may need to provide some relief and stability for the market.I also think that if we need to put up that kind of money to avoid a crisis then I want to see Barney Frank and Chris Dodd lose their committee chairs and be publicly censored.
People should be going to jail over this.Will Frank Raines and Jamie Gorelick and Jim Johnson have to return all the bonus money they recieved...?There are no consequences for the people involved at the heart of this.Only for the tax payers and share holders and depositors.We are getting a screwing like you read about.
Can you imagine the sort of dirty slush fund behavior we will see if the Congress controls billions of dollars in mortgage backed securities that will appreciate and eventually be sold.Corruption and self enrichment is guaranteed.How many of Pelosi's millionaire friends will get a chance to tap into that cake later.
This deal stinks like a rotting fish.
That will be our future if a Democrat gets in the White House with a Democrat lead Congress.
Victory in Iraq.
Liberals suck.
McCain for Preznint.
There will be no appreciation
September 28, 2008 - 09:57 ET by CapedConservativeCapedConservative
As Bernanke said, they intend to purchase "at or near full maturity value"... par. Hard to get a mortgage on a house purchased for $300K now selling for $80K to go above par. Oh, did I mention there is still about $60 Trillion of credit default swaps still out there? tick tock tick tock.
CC
The greatest theft in American History $700 Billion for Goldman
September 28, 2008 - 21:28 ET by PopularTechDon't worry CC they are going to buy worthless paper at above market prices and then try to make money on it, LMAO - morons, morons, morons. Goldman Sachs just saved itself, must be nice having the Treasury Secretary to steal $700 Billion for you.
Bank of America: 'Paulson Plan Benefits Mostly Goldman, Morgan' (Seeking Alpha)
The credit default swap market is the problem and no one is talking about it. They don't even understand what they are doing. Just declare all credit default swaps null!
Buffett's "time bomb" goes off on Wall Street (Reuters)
Buffett warns on investment 'time bomb' (BBC)
Anull Credit-Default-Swaps and keep $700 Billion
September 28, 2008 - 12:14 ET by PopularTechIf the problem is in the CDS market then fix the problem instead of wasting $700 Billion!
Credit Default Swaps:
Credit Default Swaps and the Subprime Mortgage Disaster (Best Syndication)
Cuomo Investigates Credit-Default Swaps Along With Short Sales (Bloomberg)
How 'credit default swaps'—an insurance against bad loans—turned from a smart bet into a killer (Newsweek)
Out of the Shadows and Into the Harsh Light (The New York Times)
Derivatives:
Buffett's "time bomb" goes off on Wall Street (Reuters)
Buffett On Derivatives: 'A Fool's Game' (Seeking Alpha)
Buffett warns on investment 'time bomb' (BBC)
Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb' (Market Watch)
Front Page "In Stages" Is Incorrect
September 28, 2008 - 09:54 ET by CapedConservativeCapedConservative
A lame Republican was on Fox News earlier saying:
Paulson has $700B to BUY debt immediately. No phasing. No nothing. Essentially what he asked for in the beginning. All the rest is just window dressing. Tossing ACORN on was like raising the selling price 20% so you could give a discount during negotiations..... Write this day down as it happened because those in power will be re-writing the history very soon.
CC
Speaking of ACORN
September 28, 2008 - 14:17 ET by BondPlainBondIt's obvious those in the Congress have no interest in the will of the people; however, if the ACORN add-on of $50M (an Obama pet project?) is made part of this, even after the justifiable public outrage when it was leaked the Democrats quietly slipped ACORN into the "fix", even more insult will have been added to this egregious injury caused solely by the Democratic Party.
NO ACORN ADD-ONS! EVER!
Vote out the incumbents!
NEWS FLASH
September 28, 2008 - 09:58 ET by ricklailThe Obama campaign has dispatched operatives to Gainesville and Athens to help the Gators and Dawgs put the spin on their losses yesterday. Coach Urban Myers, chosen this week as one of the whinniest coaches, was quoted as being glad to see them. Myers and his star QB have run out of spin. They are really looking forward to getting the help of the highly qualified spinmiesters from Obama. There was no comment from Coach Mark Reicht of GA who is in hiding at the boyhood home of Lewis Grizzard in Moreland. Reports that Larry Munson was with him have yet to be verifed. The game was supposed to honor Mr. Munson who retired this week as the voice of the Dawgs.
These operatives are flying in from LA where they have finished helping USC put the final touches on their spin from the loss to Oregon State and Oxford, MS where they have been trying to spin the presidential debate.
If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!
rick, I just hope that Larry didn't have a heart attack....
September 28, 2008 - 10:09 ET by R D Helm...'cause I almost did.
Beat us like we wuzz red-headed step-chillens, they did.
-Dave
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them - Rick Roberts
My troll fuse length today: 0.003mm
Uglier
September 28, 2008 - 10:12 ET by spiffI believe this is going to get uglier. How many of the homes purchased where by illegal aliens by manufacturing false financial information, fraudulent identities, and bogus citizenship documentation? Why should we be bailing these institutions out?
Also, how much of this bill is going to earmarks and how much, if any, is going to groups not interested in the sovereignty of the Untied States of America, IE La Raza or ACORN?
Vote NO on Arizona Proposition 202
It's not what they say it is!
http://stoppropositi...
And Also...
September 28, 2008 - 10:42 ET by JoelCTAdd to that, this thought: How many "families" defaulting on their mortgages were actually "flippers" who got stuck with a mortgage they couldn't afford when the value of the house they wanted to "flip" lost half its value in California, New York, and Nevada?
much of this bill is going to... ACORN
September 28, 2008 - 11:52 ET by JDWThey were never in the bill: All money goes to debt reduction.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
'Hey Chuck, Stand Up!'
CONFRIMED
September 28, 2008 - 14:40 ET by JDWI have been searching for a news media link all day and finally located one: ACORN STRIPPED
JDW
DAILY WAVE
'Hey Chuck, Stand Up!'
As much as I hate the consequence...
September 28, 2008 - 10:16 ET by MrDebaterI think we should let the ship go down...as painful as it might be, I am beginning to think that it is THE ONLY WAY to get our government back...If the gov't goes broke, then maybe conservatives...WE THE PEOPLE...can start over with LOW spending and a SMALL budget.
Can't remember
September 28, 2008 - 11:08 ET by TheAssessorI agree.. then let the world come to an end. I can't remember the quote exactly but I think it's Chinese.. something about, 'order out of chaos'.
Whatever.. I'm sick of being told to dance on the head of a pin because the "elected" people in DC whine that they got caught stealing. The tail is wagging the dog. It's time 'We the People' reclaim our spot at the biggest, baddest dog on the congressional porch. That's as it should be. They are our "representatives". And I personally don't give one yen about the 'asian markets' opening tomorrow.
I was in China a couple years ago and watched the communists in action when they swooped out of nowhere to arrest a guy trying to sell a 'postcard' near Tiannemen Square. They dragged him off on his knees while they pulled him face down by the back of his neck. A POSTCARD! And now I'm being dragged by the back of MY neck. They want to prop this crap up with toothpicks and tell us we're all better now. How about Sen Pelosi telling us that she is personally going to donate a significant part of HER income to this bailout, then let that snowball to all these crooks in congress. Put up or shut up. (Sorry, I'm in a snit this morning)
"I have a bracelet too".. Barak Obama, political sociopath
John Boehner & the House (R)'s...
September 28, 2008 - 11:32 ET by BlondeHas anyone heard any of them on the talk shows this a.m.?
Frankly, I think this group has the only hope of injecting some sanity into this entire fiasco. Nanny Pelosi wants the politcal cover of this group's votes, so they're in the catbird seat.
Here are their Economic Rescue Principles.
I e-mailed my own Rep (dem, no response, natch) and also Rep. Boehner's non-consistuent addy, to which I did receive a reply. If you're really cheesed off this a.m., as you indicated, fire off an e-mail of support to the Republican House Leader. Follow the e-mail link on the right of his site.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Thanks
September 28, 2008 - 11:40 ET by TheAssessorDone. Thanks for the link.
"I have a bracelet too.." Barak Obama, political sociopath
You're welcome
September 28, 2008 - 11:48 ET by BlondeI think we're all angry and frustrated. No matter what we say or do, the pols just march along in lockstep, throwing our money away willy nilly, with nary a thought except how it's going to make them "look".
If we had any sense at all as a nation, we'd vote every single House Member out, and 1/3 of the Senate out, next month, and start the hell over. But alas, half the country are nanny-staters.
Okay, enough of my rant!
Welcome aboard NB....at least you can vent a bit here. :)
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Watch It
September 28, 2008 - 12:20 ET by JoelCTCareful, Blonde, you are starting to sound like me.
You just need to add a sarcastic sentence or two, and we'll be lock-step.
I've been thinking, "just vote against the incumbant, no matter who it is"... but there is just no way I could vote against John Cornyn and Kay Bailey-Hutchison and vote for whatever tax-and-spend clods the Democrats put up against them. This Rick Noriega guy going up against Cornyn here in Texas is a Marxist who would destroy this state if he even got elected to dogcatcher.
So I guess I am part of the problem.
Not enough, B
September 28, 2008 - 12:35 ET by Indiana JoeRant on! You make a good point, and you're not alone. The poster above me makes a good point, too, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but desperate times and all that.
Something needs to be done to really shake up D.C. And it looks like just putting a few different faces in to run the same old system is never going to be enough to really change things.
Robert Heinlein was a sci-fi author, I heard a college prof call him a "fascist" once. I can see why. In one of his stories, there was a second "American Revolution," and the first law was that all laws save the Constitution and the Declaration were null and void. And we start again, from scratch.
Sounds better and better, doesn't it?
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Sure does, IJ
September 28, 2008 - 13:04 ET by BlondeI really hope the House (R)'s vote no and make the Dems take the "credit" for the bailout. Let the country know there are a WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE who care enough to make our voices heard.
Did you read their Economic Principles?
There are much better solutions to this mess than just throwing money at it.
Nanny has the votes right now to do it, too, and President Bush won't veto.
This posturing by Nanny and the crowd of clowns is really beginning to get under my skin. We've entered the realm of the surreal, here, the lies are so thick I'm surprised there's not smoke coming out of her mouth.
P.S. Love Heinlein. Haven't read his stuff in years and years...may be time to dig his books out of storage and give them a second shot.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Heinlein definitely has
September 28, 2008 - 13:41 ET by Indiana JoeHeinlein definitely has some thoughts that seem more and more relevant to these times.
And I love Nancy's idea of "leadership." She's a leader like Obama is an agent of "change."
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Good post. The only sound
September 28, 2008 - 11:44 ET by celatorGood post. The only sound bite that comes to my mind when I see Pelosi, Frank, Schummer, Reid slink up to the microphone to explain the "progress" they are making on this monstrosity is, "We're from the Government, and we are here to help you."
The whole lot of them combined couldn't running a successful septic tank cleaning business.
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
The Great RR
September 28, 2008 - 11:55 ET by BlondeReagan's 10 scaries words (I think he contracted "we are").
I wonder what President Reagan would think of where we are now?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I think about what Reagan
September 28, 2008 - 13:36 ET by celatorI think about what Reagan would do a lot, these days.
He might have pushed much harder for proper regulatory reform long before this. He would gone over the heads of the D's, the media, Wall St, and spoken directly to us, via television, more than once if needed. He would have laid out the actual situation, and explain the gravity of the problem in terms and a prospective we could all identify with and believe. He would have lead us through this economic matrix.
He would have offered a better solution--whatever that might be-- than we have before us now. And I think he would have inspired us, in that amazing way he had, to bring forth the best in us, so that we knew we could fix this mess in the right way.
He would had had nose to nose private meetings--as many meetings as it took-- with Congressional leaders to persuade them to do better, much better.
And he would have vetoed the current proposal.
But alas, he is not with us, though his ideas and approach are there for the taking.
Boy, I got long winded on that one. Thanks for the question!
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
celator,
September 28, 2008 - 13:44 ET by Indiana Joe"Long winded?" Hell, I'd have been just getting warmed up! ;^)
Btw, I think the Reagan quote was something like <para>, "The 9 scariest words are 'We're from the government, and we're here to help.'"
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
I had to take a breath or
September 28, 2008 - 17:10 ET by celatorI had to take a breath or pass out ;+}
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
No worries about the length
September 28, 2008 - 13:47 ET by BlondeI think the unfortunate part of George Bush's legacy will be his failure to lead his own party. He was so single-minded in pursuit of the GWOT that he was never able to communicate with the American people, a la the great Reagan, once the war became unpopular.
There's enough blame to go around, certainly. But I am just sick to death of the politics that are being played. And most of the American people are too stupid to realize it, as well.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Leadership is the issue. We
September 28, 2008 - 17:09 ET by celatorLeadership is the issue. We are hungry for the person that will inspire the country, help us see our possibilities, help us remember who we really are. Bush did not consistently do well in that arena, I'm sad to say. Not sure McCain has the magic, though occasionally we see flashes of it. Gov. Palin, I am completely convinced, does have it. People sense it. They know it's there. Barack? Nope. He has a completely other agenda, and it's not good. Biden? hahahahahahaha. Er, maybe not.
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
hyperbole from the foreign press
September 28, 2008 - 10:21 ET by RousseYou have to remember that the foreign press exhales in hyperbole. And George Bush does not do hysteria or panic.
Lord Monckton, "potty peer."
September 28, 2008 - 10:22 ET by R D HelmLord Monckton, "potty peer."
Gotta love the BBC.
Ya'll have fun-gotta go to work now.
-Dave
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them - Rick Roberts
My troll fuse length today: 0.003mm
The remaining $350
September 28, 2008 - 10:29 ET by general companyThe remaining $350 billion would be subject to congressional review,
said a statement issued by Pelosi's office early on Sunday morning.
Congressional Review? As if they would actualy contimplate not using it, no doubt they will sneek approval for these funds in the middle of the night.
One a bet they did nothing to prevent this in the future?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
As usual, the government is taking the wrong approach.
September 28, 2008 - 10:32 ET by HoosierEmWe need a CEO who has a proven record of successfully running and growing a big corporation to analyze this situation and fix it. I'm thinking of people like Mitt Romney and Jack Welch, not the politicians who caused it.
Putting idiots like Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank and other democrats with a proven record of screwing things up and screwning over taxpayers, making government bigger, and making sure government gets in the way of the American citizens and the economy is utterly ridiculous.
Democrats never met a tax dollar they didn't like.
The greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind.
September 28, 2008 - 10:40 ET by superconI'm not talking about T.Boone Pickens and Middle Eastern oil.At least with that we get something in return.Oil.
The politicians(mostly Democrats) in Washington have been watching this crisis coming for a long time and did nothing to stop it despite many warnings.Now they are about to seize hundreds of billions of dollars and have another go at it.
Gosh..I sure feel confident.What could go wrong?
This is like a man who went into the hospital to have his leg removed and the doctors cut off the wrong leg.Now those very same doctors are telling him"Don't worry..we'll get the right leg this time".Should he trust them...?
This is like asking New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin to craft an evacuation plan that relies on school buses.We're going to get soaked.
Victory in Iraq.
Liberals suck.
McCain for Preznint.
How exactly are
September 28, 2008 - 10:46 ET by JasonCHow exactly are liberals/Democrats more to blame for this? There's plenty of blame to go around. But as I recall, for the past year and a half, it was the left that was warning of encroaching financial crises.
And it was the right, this website very much included, which denounced this as warantless fearmongering, a symptom of 'BDS', a groundless ploy to install a Democratic president and undermine capitalism.
Now, it turns out the left was correct, and they're more to blame?
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A.
it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street
bankers in Gucci loafers?
If that is true then why
September 28, 2008 - 11:17 ET by general companyIf that is true then why did they block any ledgistation to curb it? Keep thinking they were doing anything, no doubt they are currently warning us about SS, Iran, Medicare, Energy prices, and a host of other items they refuse to deal with.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
News Media Spin Machine
September 28, 2008 - 12:17 ET by JDWHow hard did the Messiah media attack our side for accepting minute campaign gifts from Fannie/Freddie yet who ever had anything to say about the lib cowboys with Countrywide hats riding the Fannie/Freddie branded donkeys, and loading up their pockets with bank loads?
Who amongst the cowboys is willing to admit the other warned to clean-up the barn and stop the flies from breeding?
When has government control ever succeeded? Dream of moving to Spain? What's their health care like?
JDW
DAILY WAVE
'Hey Chuck, Stand Up!'
Maybe you should read up a little.
September 28, 2008 - 12:46 ET by supercon"How exactly are liberals/Democrats more to blame for this? There's
plenty of blame to go around. But as I recall, for the past year and a
half, it was the left that was warning of encroaching financial crises. "
George Bush tried to regulate FannieMae five years ago.
http://www.ireport.c...
September 11, 2003
The Bush administration today recommended the most
significant
regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the
savings
and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a
new
agency would be created within the Treasury Department to
assume
More..
supervision
of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored
companies that
are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with
Congress,
to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the
companies.
It would exercise authority over any new lines of business.
And it
would determine whether the two are adequately managing the
risks of
their ballooning portfolios.
Here was the response of a few influential Democrats.
Significant details must still be worked out before Congress
can
approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal
today were the
National Association of Home Builders and Congressional
Democrats who
fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply
reduce
their commitment to financing low-income and affordable
housing.
''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not
facing
any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney
Frank of
Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services
Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the
more
pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in
terms of
affordable housing.''
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina,
agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here,
moving
something from one agency to another and in the process
weakening the
bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get
affordable
housing,'' Mr. Watt said.
Source: New York Times
Nuff said...
Victory in Iraq.
Liberals suck.
McCain for Preznint.
Mischaracterizing AGAIN
September 28, 2008 - 12:46 ET by Indiana JoeWow, you're really making that the word of the day today, Jason.
"The left," as you say, has been predicting financial doom-and-gloom for the past couple years. They've been claiming we are in a recession. They've ignored the definition of a "recession," ignored all economic indicators, and have been talking down consumer confidence. In spite of this, we have yet to have one quarter of economic shrinkage, let alone the two consecutive quarters required for the definition of "recession."
On the other hand, any time the looming housing crisis was raised, whether it was Bush in '03 or McCain in '05, "the left," typically represented by Barney Frank, has pooh-poohed the idea, even accusing "the right" of sowing panic by creating "false fears."
So not only did the left not warn us about this "crisis," they actively campaigned against even recognizing it.
What else you got?
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
I am more than happy to
September 28, 2008 - 14:01 ET by JasonCI am more than happy to level blame at both sides. The Washington establishment has brought this about, from both sides of the aisle. However, liberals/Democrats have demanded better oversight/regulation/removal of laissez-faire practices for years and years; it is the cornerstone of leftist economics. For years and years it has been derided as so much anti-business socialist nonsense. Now, because we couldn't bear, on principle, to install a socialistic policy here, a regulatory policy there, we have to resort to a monolithic game of "Big Gov't to the Rescue."
Again, I am more than willing to accept blame on the Democrats. My point is only that those who poo-pooed their warnings of coming crisis as unhinged alarmism for the past year or so were flat-out wrong.
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A.
it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street
bankers in Gucci loafers?
Still twisting, I see
September 28, 2008 - 14:22 ET by Indiana JoeAre you really arguing that our problem right now is a recession? Because, as I pointed out and you mentioned, that's all the left has been "warning" us about for the past two years.
OTOH, as I also pointed out, your "anti-lassez-faire" leftists have been saying "no problemo" to warnings from the right about the Fannie and Freddie problem for years. And blocking any attempts to do anything about it.
So now you're willing to "blame both sides," huh? Mighty big of you, Jason. Guess that's the closest you can come to admitting to your side being wrong about anything.
Mighty big indeed.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Jason - sorry but you are very mixed up
September 28, 2008 - 14:43 ET by Dee BunkThe dems never warned about the crisis in the housing and financial markets - the Republicans did. Bush and McCain and other Republicans tried to get legislation to further regulate Freddy and Fannie who are THE major cause of this whole problem.
The only thing the dems did was constantly talk down the economy and only made things worse. They said things were bad but only talked about jobs leaving the country and other things that had little to do with the impending crisis.
They blocked President Bush's and McCain's bills for reining in Freddie and Fanny and proposed no bills of their own except one's that put less restrictions on them. Their laws brought on this crisis and they have not done one thing to try and stop it.
Dee and Indy, it would
September 28, 2008 - 14:55 ET by JasonCDee and Indy, it would appear we are arguing about different things here; and while, yes, I don't think Republicans get off scot-free here, you're certainly right that Democrats have blundered left and right as well. The initial post to which I responded laid all of the blame at the feet of the Democrats, which is no different from laying all of the blame for the mishaps in Iraq at the feet of the Republicans. Both sides have erred.
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A.
it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street
bankers in Gucci loafers?
STILL twisting!
September 28, 2008 - 16:36 ET by Indiana Joe"The initial post" here was about the housing bail-out. When one side has been pointing to it for years, and the other side has been ignoring it, denying it, and refusing to do anything about it, while lining their and their friends' pockets from it, it can hardly be called "equal" responsibility. One side tried to sound the alarm, the other side said "everything's fine." If the situation were reversed, how much responsibility would you concede to your "side?" How much responsibility do you assign to Democrats in re: Iraq mistakes? Your folks have been running from their initial votes in droves, so that answers that question.
What you did was try to misdirect the topic onto the Dems persistent "sky-is-falling" talk about the "recession," claim they were "right," and try to absolve them of any responsibility for that so-called "crisis." The words are right up there for anyone to read.
To talk now about "shared responsibility" is just another way to dodge admitting that, on this issue, your side was wrong, wrong, wrong!
"Different things," my a$$. You're hoist with your own petard, Jason.
Deal with it.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Alright Indy Joe. I have
September 28, 2008 - 16:57 ET by JasonCAlright Indy Joe. I have gone off course on this one. You win. You too, Dee.
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A.
it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street
bankers in Gucci loafers?
Good job, Jason
September 28, 2008 - 18:58 ET by Indiana JoeI knew you had it in you.
You can call me IJ. ;^)
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Jason
September 28, 2008 - 21:53 ET by well99Yes both sides are to blame but the repubs did try to do something about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feature=related
Top 4 Recipents of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Contributions
1. Chris Dodd D-CT $133,900
2. John Kerry D-MA $111,000
3. Barack Obama D-IL $105,849
4. Hillary Clinton D-NY $75,550
The Dems shot down their attemps.
Breath in and relax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3iY45m0v1Y Ooohhhmm
well99
September 28, 2008 - 22:09 ET by MrShyLove the last link!!.... Baghdad Buggaloo! :p
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
double post
September 28, 2008 - 22:27 ET by MrShysorry... :p
Mr Shy
September 28, 2008 - 22:38 ET by well99It is all good.Thought I saw 4th id patch on one of the guys.There are some good vids of the guys and gals letting off steam.So when is your next video hitting youtube?
Mr. Shy's next video...
September 29, 2008 - 01:16 ET by MrShyI'll let you know, well99!!
We're discussing doing a new video for one of two tracks off my album ("Cream of the Crop" or "Crossed the Atlantic"... which you can check out at mr-shy.com ... just click on "Global Remix Project" :))
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
"Now, because we couldn't
September 28, 2008 - 19:24 ET by ckc1227"Now, because we couldn't bear, on principle, to install a socialistic
policy here, a regulatory policy there, we have to resort to a
monolithic game of "Big Gov't to the Rescue."'
You mean like the regulatory policy that forces lenders to lend to people who can't afford mortgages? Sounds like a socialist policy to me, and, as Tony the tiger would say, "It's Grrrreeeatttt". Not.
"However, liberals/Democrats have demanded better oversight/regulation/removal of laissez-faire practices for years and years;"
Maybe that's why no one paid any attention to them, because anyone who believes we operate in a laissez-faire financial environment has no clue. If we did, Fannie and Freddie wouldn't even exist, certainly not in their current form, and lenders wouldn't have been forced under penalty of law to lend to people who couldn't afford mortgages.
See, that's what happens when you inject a socialist policy here, and a regulatory policy there. Meanwhile, the least regulated institutions in the financial sector are the ones having the least problems. Go figure.
Always complaining about the economy doesn't make you especially prescient when something finally does go wrong.The dems have been talking down the economy in general since Bush came into office, but on this specific issue, they have said little or nothing, and have done nothing, despite being the majority in congress the last 2 years.
I mean, just look at what's going on now. We allegedly face the greatest financial meltdown ever, but their main concern is executive pay, lol. Just like good little socialists. And instead of passing the bill last week to save the global economy(Repubs can't stop them..don't have the votes), they put the whole world at risk...over executive pay.
Man, I despise liberals, I really really do. Socialism causes a problem, and their solution is....MORE socialism.
"From this day forward, you shall be known as..stupid african."
Good Points
September 28, 2008 - 21:50 ET by pbthinkerYou make some good points CKC. Another thing people don't realize is, when Democrats say they want regulation, they want to be able to impose their rules on lenders and force them, through this regulation, to comply. Since regulation was toned down, Democrats decided to make laws to accomplish their same liberal goals.
To be fair, however, my gut feeling is that the poor and disadvantaged are responsible for this as much as the flippers, who took advantage of the rules set forth by the Democrats. That's the problem with liberals, they don't understand the slippery slope.
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
Now we know....
September 28, 2008 - 11:26 ET by RackieIt takes a freakin' meltdown to get the blowhards we send to DC to finally address the really hard life and death issues we face, the ones we trust them to deal with, rather than waste time thinkering around the edges with "ego issues". They are useless as a group and clueless as a class.
CLEAN THE SLATE IN 08!
This is like a man who went into the hospital to have his leg removed and the doctors cut off the wrong leg.Now those very same doctors are telling him "Don't worry..we'll get the right leg this time".Should he trust them...?
...and then when he went to court, the judge told him he "didn't have a leg to stand on".
Here is an outstanding Youtube piece...
September 28, 2008 - 11:03 ET by Prester John...that not only describes how it all started, but also ties in Obama's advisors to it as well as Bush's and McCain's attempts to get it under control.
Outstanding.
Go down to the piece "What Caused the Crisis on Wall Street".
http://www.powerline...
PJ... This link will take
September 28, 2008 - 22:05 ET by Clear thinkerPJ...
This link will take you directly to the video without having to search for it... What Caused Our Economic Crisis?
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
CT
September 28, 2008 - 22:10 ET by well99You might want to add this video also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
well99... Thanks! I had
September 28, 2008 - 22:23 ET by Clear thinkerwell99...
Thanks! I had not seen this one. Will post and advertise ASAP!
OMG - Obamas As The Waltons
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Hey w99...thank you...I had
September 28, 2008 - 22:34 ET by bigtimerHey w99...thank you...I had kind of forgot about that hearing...but I watched/listened to it as I was getting more and more infuriated, I don't know, it is like I've said before, if people would bother to watch any of the hearings like this, just some of it, they would/would not vote for their congressman again.
They know people in everyday life don't have time or bother...they depend on it.
they usually replay them too over and over whenever they can...
thank goodness for the internet now...I love it.
Thank you for posting it again, I saved it to watch the whole thing again later...and to pass on.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT CT
September 28, 2008 - 22:41 ET by well99Maybe they will set up a blog just to post some of the info on Fannie and Freddie.
Do it!
September 28, 2008 - 11:05 ET by JWFBut we better make damn sure the socialist experiments are over. That means we start winding down the current entitlement programs too.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
The clueless conservative endorses socialism
September 28, 2008 - 11:41 ET by PopularTechWait do the socialist bailout but make sure socialism is over? Since when did capitalism become privatize profits but socialize losses? What do you think this money is for? It is not only corporate welfare it is to help welfare recepients stay in homes they have no business being it. I have never read a more idiotic comment in my life.
"Idiotic?"
September 28, 2008 - 12:52 ET by Indiana JoeSeems rather harsh. "Do it, but never again," seems to be the gist of that post. Disagree if you will, but the insult is really out of line, IMO.
Private profits and social losses is obviously wrong. And we can debate "could'a, would'a, should'a," 'til the cows come home. But it is what it is. Figure out how to deal with it, and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Sounds reasonable to me.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Privatize Profits and Socialize Losses is what is going on
September 28, 2008 - 13:02 ET by PopularTechThe bailout and nationalization of banks and the mortgage industry is socialism and has NOTHING to do with capitalism. The government is buying at an above market price, worthless MBS from banks, thus socializing losses. For no other purpose then to price fix home prices and attempt to stop the market from correcting the over-pricing of homes. Not only will this not work, this will devalue the dollar and this creates a moral hazard in the markets where reckless behavior like this is now encouraged since their is assurance that any losses might be socialized by the Federal Government. Bankrupcy and liquidation is how the market deals with bad business decisions.
I am sorry this is above your comprehension but this does not change reality.
If Socialism sounds reasonable to you then by all means "deal with it!"
Not above my comprehension
September 28, 2008 - 13:53 ET by Indiana JoeI'm not as arrogant as you, to think that I really understand all this so much better than anyone else.
And I'm not as insecure as you, in that I don't feel the need to insult anyone who questions any of my opinions.
And your reading comprehension is non-existent if you think I said this bailout sounds reasonable to me. The point of, do it if we must, but don't let it happen again sounds less than idiotic (your word) to me. I think the poster you first insulted made a reasonable statement.
If that's the "most idiotic thing" you've ever heard, you must not hear yourself very well.
But that's okay. You constantly shoot yourself in the foot here, by your never ending insults and superior attitude, not to mention the tiresome c&ps of the same posts, over and over and over. If your point here is just to raise hackles, you're doing great. If it's to convince people, you're pretty much falling flat on your face.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
Socialism is reasonable in difficult times
September 28, 2008 - 14:03 ET by PopularTechWe will just do socialism just this once because we must and that sounds reasonable. I understand completely - Socialism is reasonable in difficult times.
I hate to keep repeating facts and source over and over and really feel bad about it.
Socialism reasonable?
September 28, 2008 - 14:17 ET by RHRobinsonMDIf socialism is reasonable in difficult times then so is slavery - but both are morally wrong.
First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I'll buy it. - Robert Heinlein
Embrace Socialism!