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For general discussion and debate: Possible talking point: Rush is with us for another eight years!

The American broadcast industry is rocked, realigned and blasted into a new orbit, yet again, by Rush Limbaugh, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. In what is being described as an unprecedented radio contract, Limbaugh will keep his syndicated show on-the-air and e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e through 2016 with CLEAR CHANNEL and PREMIERE RADIO. Already host of the most lucrative hours since radio's inception, Limbaugh's total package is valued north of $400 million, according to media insiders (report and picture courtesy Drudge).

What does this announcement -- and Rush -- mean to you, and what does it say about the rest of the mainstream media?

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Rush should have fun with this

"Bulldozer 'terror' attack on bus in Jerusalem"

Man, first it's SUVs, now it's bulldozers.  Ya just can't trust machinery any more. What's the world coming too?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4254225.ece

I say we ban all heavy

I say we ban all heavy machinery, as shown here they are deadly and kill people.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Here's the AP headline

Frontloader Rams Into Cars, Bus in Jerusalem; At Least 3 Killed

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374904,00.html

Keep on Rocking Rush!

And kudos. Now to defeat the Hush Rush bill.... 

 

.Those who believe in nothing will believe anything.

I never listen to Rush, I

I never listen to Rush, I have some but he is boring.  But more power to him and his lucrative deal, hopefully the hopeful changer will let him keep some of it.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Thank God for Rush Limbaugh

What does this deal mean to America? It means for at least the next 8 years, the left will continue to not get away with anything!

Love that picture. Rush

Love that picture. Rush Limbaugh...evil capatialist..

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

All I have to say is 6

All I have to say is 6 words....Thank God Thank God Thank God
or should I say i have a thousand words? million?

Outstanding news, although i think

he is much more valuable than 400m to this country.

I guess you gotta take what you can get.

Congatulations Rush!

The true "Spirit of Radio"

(My other favorite Rush)

 

The 2ND Amendment exists to secure the rest

Indeed

"Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristles with the energy..." - Prof. Neil Peart 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

unsane, do you know the real reason Neil Peart is refferred to..

...as The Professor?

LOL-The answer just may surprise you.

The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz

Rush - making the left go CRAZY !!!!

I have had the good forture to talk to Rush twice on the air - I keep the recordings as if they were family jewels to be handed down to future generations.

GOOD FOR YOUR RUSH - you have EARNED every penny.

Also - congratulations to your staff Rush - the finest in the industry and the best web site in the history of journalism.

→ Bring on the popcorn

If O'Reilly has a problem with Oil Company CEO pay, doesn't he have to come after Rush?

I'm jut sayin'.

  • LYDSEXICS UNTIE

I doubt it...

Too close to the subject of O'Reilly's own paycheck, a subject which has always been off-limits in the "no spin zone."
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

O'Reilly's Spin World

Ever get sick of listening to him talk about his tax problems...?

Doubtful his audience will hear anything about Rush.

JDW

Remember the Countrywide Six?

Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?

If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him there?

Kudos

Rush, you are the man!  I never miss his broadcasts.  Congratulations indeed!!!

20 million can't be

20 million can't be wrong!

 

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Watch the libs go CRAZY with jealousy.

Al Franken especially will be foaming at the mouth.

 

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

Limbaugh (Fairness) Doctrine

This means that President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid will put even more effort into re-instituting the Limbaugh (Fairness) Doctrine. Depending on their numerical majority, and such minority stallwarts as The Two Ditzes from Maine and Senator McCain, they may just succeed.

With respect, I disagree

I think this makes Rush bullet-proof.

  • The game behind the Fairness Doctrine is that if radio stations have to put on opposing viewpoints alongside Rush, they'll take the easy way out and simply drop Rush's program so they don't have to air anything at all. It's essentially intimidation.
  • But if they've already sunk gazillions of dollars into Rush's program, they're not going to just throw it away. The intimidation factor is gone. Once you know that Rush's contract is a lock, it removes any motive for any station to get rid of him.
  • And, in turn, all the competitors will have to respond, else they'll be surrendering the opinion market to whatever stations carry Rush. They'll have to remain in the game, as it is, and so the intimidation of the Fairness Doctrine is useless.

Bluff called.

Thank you for your respect

We all must continue our civil dialogues to keep Matthew S. content.

PAY HIM MORE MONEY!!!

WHY ONLY 400 MIL??? Way to go Rush. Keep up the good job. You are turely a gift from GOD.

Love, MOM

....whatwazat I just heard??...

I could be wrong, but I think I just heard Dingy Harry and Botox Nance, huddling together at breakfast saying, "Ahhhhhshhhhiiiiiittt".  

Or it coulda just been a sneeze, I'm not sure.

neighb

400 Million Dollar Man

All of this with half his brain tied behind his back.

→ Right on Barker

All of this with half his brain tied behind his back.

That's the real Fairness Doctrine.

He only needs to show just enough to win the turkey.

  • LYDSEXICS UNTIE

And now, today's Shrub

And now, today's Shrub Report®:

On Quinn's show this morning, he claimed his "secret source" is telling him that Romney will the McCain's running mate, and Lady Pantsuit will be Obama's.

Global warming will cause bigger, more frequent hurricanes, er, typhoons, er, earthquakes, um, floods! Yes, floods! That's better.

And we thought Kerry was a flip-flopper. Holy cow.

Person of indiscriminate ethnic origin, religion, and nationality accidentally runs over people and vehicles with construction equipment.

Way back in 1951, what many consider the worst movie ever made was released.

Damn. The guy is looking like Victor Buono these days, isn't he?

Mike McIntyre (D – NC) demands progress report on Iraq. When it arrives, poos-poos it.

Speaking of the Worst Congress Ever, how did your senator vote with Harry Reid? Obama was the #1 partisan Democrat(ic) in the senate, voting with Reid 91% of the time. No rubber-stamp, indeed!

And, finally, a third story about our esteemed members of Congress.

This Shrubber is patiently awaiting the first "these fires are out of control because National Guard troops are in Iraq" claims.

Today in history: 1566 – Nostradamus dies. 1853 – Crimean War begins as Russia invades Turkey, inspires a cool tune. 1881 – James Garfield is assassinated.  1900 – first successful zeppelin flight. 1934 – Carl Kolchak's main man gets himself perished. 1937 – Amelia Earhart is abducted by aliens, er, "disappears".

Looks like Omarosa's makeover was not a success. But The Hopeful Changer just joined Conrad and Dodd on the "sweet home mortgage" scandal. At least the "fist-bump" has been thrown underneath the bus. That bus ride is getting mighty bumpy.

Today's Religion of Peace Update.

I thought Iran had nothing to do with the violence in Iraq? Where's Leon to set us straight? Duh.

Finally, the Quote of the Day, and The Picture of the Day.

 

July 2, 1776 Congress

July 2, 1776

Congress votes for independence

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

How did I miss that? And I

How did I miss that? And I just watched the "John Adams" mini-series last week, too.
Bad Shrubber!
Bad Shrubber!

Thanks Roger......

for my daily chuckle........the Victor Buono one had me ROTFL..!! 

"If a man does his best, what else is there"?

General George S. Patton Jr.

Good for Him

The pic of Rush almost makes me want to que the Dark Vader sound track.

"I find your lack of Faith disturbing"

Go Rush!

Rush is going to need that raise...

...once the government-schooled American dumbMasses put Barry-O in the White House.

The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz

Not all Chinese imports are cheap and plastic!

Some of them are torture techniques.

Amazing!

There will probably be some people here who will look again at what is described and say, as the wealthy Mr. Limbaugh might, ah, these sorts of interrogation techniques don't rise above fraternity pranks!

Tell that to the "American prisoners returning from North Korea, some of whom had been filmed by their Chinese interrogators confessing to germ warfare and other atrocities." Is it only torture when it happens to our side? Is it admirable or disturbing that this nation is emulating Communist China and North Korea in its treatment of prisoners? And what good is false intelligence gained under these kinds of abuses anyway?

Discuss.

I thought ALL of them were

I thought ALL of them were torture techniques. Damn, we better try harder.

That's about as constructive...

as a fart delivered from the back of the classroom.

Please try again.

What should I be saying, to

What should I be saying, to make sure my response fits into your own little world?

Not exactly

But if you want to be taken seriously, try to address the issue. That's free advice. Take it or leave it.

Okay. Got it. I will respond

Okay. Got it.
I will respond to your Left-Wing talking points in a serious fashion from now on.

On blogonator

blogonator seems deeply concerned about torture.  Especially if the most evil civilization he has ever seen (that would be the United States) commits it.  Torture, in his world, is NOT completely pampering the cuddly terrorists with 5 star treatment in the Waldorf Astoria. 

But I somehow doubt he will address for one moment the torture endured by the sailor who was killed on TWA Flight 847 back in 1985.  Or the mock executions endured by the embassy personnel in Tehran in 1980.  (The examples I can come up with at the moment) 

C'mon, blogonator.  Lead by example.  Adopt one of the cute, cuddly, huggable terrorists and show us how they should be treated!!! 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

When you make stuff up just to support your point...

it actually serves to undermine your point. Your whole first paragraph is your own imagination running wild again.

I'll make it plain so you can cite it later with authority: torture is beneath us as a country. I'll go one step further and say torture is beneath us as human beings. From a practical standpoint it is worse than useless. It is actually damaging. Whether it is our side committing torture or their side, whoever they is, I am opposed to it.

Now, it's time for you to watch a video made by a prominent Iraq War supporter.

Enjoy!

 

Watch your agitprop link? For what?

Why should I watch your silly agitprop video when I was actually deployed there?  I actually know what Iraq was like because unlike you I was there. 

My first paragraph you so disdain is extremely accurate.  It can hadly be my imagination running wild when YOU are the one vomiting the Leftist talking points and agitprop and willfully choosing to believe the absolute worst about your country and the military that ensures your ability to whine online. 

I will state again: anything short of the total pampering of the terrorists and bad guys at the 5-star hotel of your choice to Leftists like yourself is considered torture.  Go adopt one of those cuddly terrorists if you think you can do a better job of detaining them.  In the meantime, giving the enemy combatants three squares a day, looking after their spiritual needs, and otherwise treating them in accordance with the Geneva Convention is NOT torture.  Of course, NOT ONE PEEP from you or your fellow Leftists concerning the human rights of those killed for showing up to work one morning at the World Trade Center (for one example and I can think of many many more). 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

china gets a two-fer

Not only did there techniques manage to elicit false confessions during the Korean War they now get a knee-jerk reaction from the President Bush haters to make confessions of how bad America and the American military personnel behave. BTW, you do know that those military men are your countrymen and some are people you went to school with and played with as a kid. I wonder what they think of your opinion now.
It is possible that some of the information is false and it is also possible some of it is true. I don't like the idea of torture either but the reality is that from all accounts America's prisoners are healthier when released than when captured, furnished with religious items and entertainment/exercise. The other reality is that if torture did not work at all, especially psychological torture, many famous military leaders of the past would have abandoned the idea long ago because it is just easier to kill the prisoners.

Are you addressing me?

I'd tell you if I thought America is a bad place and everyone in the American armed forces was evil. But I don't, so I won't. America isn't perfect, and we all need to work to improve our country. One of our most glaring imperfections is our use of torture in the WOT. Whether it's in modern day Egypt, Spain in the time of the Inquisition, or 55 years ago in North Korea, torture is torture. It's beneath us. We don't need to follow them. We need to set the example.

But you say, "the reality is that from all accounts...." What are these "all accounts" you speak of? I've read of some pretty serious abuses. Let me give you an example and you tell me if there's anything wrong with this. First I hit you over the head with a brick. Then I buy you a movie ticket. Then I hit you with a brick again. Another movie ticket follows. Does the movie ticket negate the flying brick? I say no.

blogo...

"We need to set the example."

I agree, buuuut... we should lead by example and find better, more humane ways of torture!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Got any specific suggestions?

Or was that an attempt at humor?

blog, that was not humor,

blog, that was not humor, that was something your not familiar with. Honesty.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

what torture did we do...?

what torture did we do...? Is this about those ferocious water drips?

I've got a video for you to watch

Try to approach it with an open mind. It's by a prominent Iraq War supporter.

Link

checking it out now... is

checking it out now...

is there anything else besides the waterboarding? who officially authorized this US waterboarding?

looking online - there is

looking online - there is quite a bit of disagreement on waterboarding qualifying as torture - do you have anything else besides the waterboarding or is that it?

There's plenty more besides waterboarding

Link

Look back to my first comment in this Open Thread and read up on where these "enhanced interrogation" techniques actually came from. It was torture when it was studied in 1957, and I don't see how we can honestly call it anything else now. Even the term "enhanced interrogation" has odious origins (link).

Now as to the question who officially authorized this US waterboarding, good luck getting that one answered. I would wager it goes all the way to the top of the executive branch (link). Problem is whenever anyone wants to ask Bush about it, he dodges the question. Tapes of the waterboarding taking place have been destroyed, in defiance of the 9/11 comission (link). Who's responsible for that? Again, we may never know. If ever we were able to launch a full investigation, it's hard to say what evidence we'd be able to recover.

Bloggie, most of us trust

Bloggie, most of us trust the military and teh government to restrain themselves when using "aggressive" interogatioon techniques.  What do you think is fair game for interogation, I mean specifically.  Apparently you have plenty of experience and can draw on years of field work.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Apparently not

But when it comes to taking a side on this issue, I find the "tortue is bad for us" argument far more convincing. And not because the people who advance that position have no experience with interrogations. Try this article.

As for blind faith, I don't place that in human beings. Neither did this guy.

Plenty besides waterboarding?

Who cares? Only a nit wit would be concerned with the "feelings" of a murderous bunch that wants nothing less, than to cut off the nit wits head. Waterboard em, stand em in a corner, naked, in a freezer, under a sprinkler...who cares if it gets the information we need?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Who cares indeed...

Number one: torture does not produce reliable information. People will tell their torturer whatever they think will make the pain stop, right or wrong.

Number two: you are making an impressive leap of faith that the person being tortured actually has information you need. If you have the wrong guy, and it happens, then what is your torture doing except creating hatred? Worse, whatever bogus information he produces and you act on is wasting time and resources.

So divorce yourself from caring about these people. Care about yourself and how you want your military tax dollars spent. This should be about defending our country, not making new enemies.

just curious - if you have

just curious - if you have this much disdain for US waterboarding then what do you think about tortures by Hussein and Al Queda, etc? Do you actively campaign against that as much as these US interrogation techniques?

I answered that question above

I oppose torture wherever it happens, under whatever authority it's being carried out.

As an American, I particularly oppose it when my tax dollars are spent perpetrating it.

MY tax dollars???

my tax dollars -  Oh goody.  Yet another poster who believes he is the only human being that pays taxes. 

I oppose torture wherever it happens, under whatever authority it's being carried out.  Unless of course it is being done in the name of "social justice", being the good Leftist you are.  And of course, NOT ONE PEEP about the human rights violations committed against Americans.

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

you talk about Bush

you talk about Bush dodging questions - is this a dodge by you to my questions? 

I oppose it wherever as well - and I also believe in prioritizing - so I see people like Hussein and terrorists as perpretating significantly worse atrocitites - so they should be dealt with more strongly than the CIA right now IMHO - would you agree? And if so do you think that's the message to the world coming from the American left? Or is their message that America is a greater evil than AQ and sadistic dictators like Hussein?

Try not to conflate the issues

My country engages in torture. If they're keeping track, the President and my representatives know how I feel about it. I do what I can to stop it.

Whatever happens overseas is not really our business. Sorry, I don't think America should be the world's policeman. I'm surprised some conservatives do nowadays. If we detect some bad stuff going down some place, then let us bring some diplomatic pressure to bear and disengage ourselves from the situation. We ought to stay out of foreign entanglements. Someone famous said something like that once. Saddam was a bad guy, no doubt, but stopping torture was no reason to go into Iraq. At least it wasn't a stated reason when we went in. Maybe it is now. Seems like the reasons change every year or so.

it's torture according to

it's torture according to you - not authoritative bodies - so your comments should be qualified correspondingly...

stopping torture was not a reason for ousting Hussein - it was an ancillary benefit - and as you seem to be so adamantly opposed to torture I wanted to hear your take on his particular methods - but now you say you are only opposed to American torture? But just above that you said you opposed it everywhere it happens - which means you should oppose it overseas as well as domestically - you don't seem to have your story straight here...

Are you the authoritative body?

Did you even read this? It was torture in 1957 according to an Air Force researcher. What is it now if it isn't torture?

You can't seem to get my story straight. I oppose it everywhere. I don't think we should be invading countries to stop it. If you can't reconcile those two statements, you are beyond my help.

bogonator...

Are you still here???

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

blog, lie to the torturer?

blog, lie to the torturer? What happens when that is found out? You think you let the guy go? Ha...shows what you know. You keep your prisnor. If he lies, he knows you will be back, and what he was enduring, he will see as a pick nick. Torture, when the information comes, if it is bogus....well, most of em come clean when you tell them you will be back if he lied, or the information is wrong...I can tell you have never been involved in the interrorgation of an enemy. Otherwise, you would not make ignorant statements.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Assuming you have the right guy

You are always making that generally unfounded assumption. The wrong guy will give you wrong information until you kill him or release him.

Recognizing this is the internet and you could be Gen. Eisenhower's zombie or instead just some mostly unemployed dude living in a basement in Kansas, let me ask you anyway, what exactly is your experience engaging in interrogations? Have you ever tortured someone? How'd that work out for you? How have you avoided prosecution?

blogo...

I asked you first...I am not Eisenhower, nor do I live in Kansas, close, but not there. Torture is sometimes the only way to get information. Normaly, when I captured a prisnor, we were pretty darn sure he was a member of the enemys army.

Now, that is not to say we did not employ other means, when it worked. It depended largely on the age of the one in question, and how gulliable he was. We once took a kid to the club after we landed, bought him a few beers and he thought we where his best friends in the world. We got all the intell we needed from him, and then some. So is torture the only means? No. Is it effective on the hard core? Yes.

Now what is your experience?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Other means?

So what exactly did you do? Was it torture or wasn't it? I seems like you employed methods other than torture to get what you wanted. Did you ever actually torture anyone?

Feeding the kid all the

Feeding the kid all the TSIGNTAO or San Miguel he can consume hardly seems like toruture to me.

Most of my compadres have expreienced a "Fun Little Summer Camp" we call (Survival, Escape, Resistance, & Evasion) SERE School. 

I cannot remember a single one who was not broken in some manner under the relitively simple techniques used there.  The only way to not break is to not speak - at all.  Rigourous interrogation handles that issue nicely.

Scenarior for you again.  KSM Sits in fornt of you and refuses to speak, at all.  And you know he has information critital to saving thousands of lives in the next 24 hours.  What are you willng to do to get the information?

Leave off your Sam Waterston "I gotta be able to stand in court" attitude, because you must have information or thousands will die and prosecution is not the intent.

Your thoughts are one sided

You believe that everyone the US captures receives some form of torture. Do you even know what the role of an interrogator is? How they go about their job? How many times will they talk, just talk, to someone? There is countless hours of interviews, checking the information, forming new questions to be asked, etc. When answers do not match know information, more interviews are conducted. It is a long drawn out process. Torture is a relative term. I'm tortured when filling up my gas tank, or grocery shopping. Try sitting in Beltway traffic for three hours, now thats torture. To a interrogator, "physical methods" is a last resort when information is known by the subject and other means have failed. If you want to call it torture, fine. My best form of "torture" was to keep them in a white cell with white sheets/blankets, white chair, white etc. The lights would never go out and every few hours I would change the time on the clock either forward or backwards. Pump in a little heavy metal, overlapped with punk, music. Go ahead, call it torture. It amazes me how many people "deplore" torture but really have no understanding on the total process. And yes there is more, but maybe its time for your private studies. Go research.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Good point!

Hey, it worked on "Kelly's Heroes", right?

Number one: torture does

Number one: torture does not produce reliable information.

That is a foolish statement.  Its converse would be that feeding the enemy lemon chicken gets better wquality information.

Thekey is to VETTE the information.  YOu start small and ask simple questions, most of which you know the answer to.  ANd you use information your enemy is not privy to thorugh all source intelligence.

When you catch your enemy in a lie you confront him on it and watch the results.

I imagine that the most terrirfying thing encountered by the enemy under such rigorous interogation would be the the moment you finish telling the lie and see the look on the interogators face that he knows that you know it is all crap.

One thing that I cannot understand right now is that during Vietnam, US prisoners were successfully interogated by the NVA using torture and nearly all broke.  MCCain is now saying that it was not effective, but several others say their toughest battle was recovering from the fact that they had broken and given usable intelligence to the enemy and trying to live with that fact.

Number two: you are making an impressive leap of faith that the person being tortured actually has information you need.

The only leap of faith being amde is that the Interrogation is done in a vacuum without the presense of other facts.

Perhaps that is what TV seriels show, but it is inaccurate.

The key is to get the detainee talking in any manner anyway.

I refer you to the book "The Interrogators" by Chris McKey who deals with this information in depth.

If you have the wrong guy, and it happens, then what is your torture doing except creating hatred?

The US has only waterboarded three individuals, all of which were senior AQ leadership.   Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.[

If you can prove to me that KSM, who has admitted he was responsible for the planning of 9/11 and other events was innocent....

Little bit of mindbender for you.  YOu have a good folder full of insmation about a KSM type who is now presented to you with a black hood on in the interrogation facility.  YOu believe he has a mission ongoing that could kill thousands.  But has refused to say a word to the guys who attempted to to a hasty interogation inthe field.

You take his hood off and he stares icily at you as you say "Where is the bomb" and "Where is Johnson."  He never says a word.

YOu know that Johnson has a bomb in one of six places, but you cannot cover them all.   You know of the six places due to other information you have received.

WHat do you do?

 

I change the channel

Wait, who's playing the KSM type? I liked that Kumar guy in the White Castle movie. He's a good actor. Jack Bauer got him good though.

Please step back into reality. Our intelligence is never perfect, and it won't be until we perfect mind reading. Torture is not a way to improve our condition because torture does not produce reliable intelligence. Not when you have the wrong guy. Not when the guy you do have has a high threshold of pain and a willingness to die for a cause. Torture does debase our republic. Torture does undermine our troops currently in harms way who may find themselves prisioners of the enemy.

Blogonator  Wait, who's

Blogonator 

Wait, who's playing the KSM type? I liked that Kumar guy in the White Castle movie. He's a good actor. Jack Bauer got him good though.

THis will undoubtedly suprise you, but I have never seen an episode of 24, or many of the other Hollywood produced dramas trying to represent the world in which I work.

I cannot bear to watch amateurs attempting to depict what my friends and I do.

Please step back into reality. Our intelligence is never perfect,

Thank you for that flash of the obvious, a fact that I know far more about than you do.  But my years of experience allows me an advantage, I know when the Intell is flakey, and when it is pretty solid.

and it won't be until we perfect mind reading.

ANd it would not be then either, as ALL intellgence is bounced off all other sources to gain corroboration.  I would rather have a ream of All-source, than a mindreader with an interview.

Torture is not a way to improve our condition because torture does not produce reliable intelligence.

As stated before this is a childish notion. 

If I have an admission made under supposed torture, that is corroborated by a SIGINT message saying something similar, which is also corroborated by IMINTm MASINT, FISINT, and several HUMINT interviews with people who know the source and have experience with his world - THAN DAMMIT IT PRETTY MUCH WORKED, RIGHT?

Walk into my world....

Not when you have the wrong guy.

Please prove to me that we have TORTURED a wrong guy.  For this issue, I will stipulate Waterboarding.

ONce again I state that all source Intelligence weeds out the WRONG guys.

Not when the guy you do have has a high threshold of pain and a willingness to die for a cause.

According to all reports KSM began giving up Intelligence on units, plans, personnel, and other key information in 45 SECONDS.  According to the information provided, the information provided by KSM was corroborated and led to HUGE gains against the AQ leadership.

SHACKITY!!!!!

Torture does debase our republic.

Probably because you have unusual, Hollywood based standards for our republic. 

It will undoubtedly shock you that we also:

a.  Ambush our enemies ( I have had libs tell me that that "Is not fair" and we should not do it.)

b.  We use snipers against our enemies in an attempt to hit them with limited danger to ourselves (Libs hate that as well.)

c.)  And we shoot our enemies in the back as often as possible, nor wait for them to take the first shot at us (ooooh, libs HATE that the most)

Torture does undermine our troops currently in harms way who may find themselves prisioners of the enemy.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!.  Gasp.... hahahahahaha!

You gotta be SH***ing me?

WWII - Bataan Death March, US troops send to Dachau and to the V2 plants to be worked to death.  WHolesale slaughter of US troops caught by the Japanese and retail slaughter by German troops.

And the Gestapo showed to let up on our guys if they thought they knew something.

Korea - Massacres f US troops when captured by the nKoreans as well as the Japanese who filled the side of the road with US troops bodies.

US troops sent north to China, many of whome never reappear and most starved and tortured.

Vietnam - Please read McCains history of the event, then read Bud Days, James Stockwell, and read the reviews of US troops summarily executed.

Desert Storm - Please review the photos of US and British airmen who were tortured by the Iraqi's while held in captivity.  Also review the book Bravo 20.

Today.  Virtually all US troops captured by the AQ are tortured, then executed while being filmed.  Nearly all beheaded or burned alive.

If I am somehow captured by our enemies, I will not be waterboarded, nor recieve lemon shicken with Rice Pilaf in a gentle prison by the bay with a moderate climate.

  I will be sliced into ribbons, then have my head cut off, probably using a dull Parang which will take several attempts to successfully accomplish.  Various body parts removed before I am probably covered in naptha and burned to a a nice crisp.  If we had taken all our detainees and sent them to Zurich to get fat on chcolate - the results would be the same.

None of the US's activites in any of these conflicts including todays rises to 1% of what our enemies have inflicted upon our guys.  We have waterboarded three guys,  for agrand total of 2 minutes and ten seconds for all three, they have massacred us.

AND THE WORLD KNOWS THIS, THEY JUST PREFER TO IGNORE IT.

By the way, nice attempt to sidestep the question.  What would you, BLOGONATOR, do to the get the info?  I make you the SECDEF and you have the weight of the office on your shoulders.  WHAT DO YOU DO?

Forget it BD

He's a idiot and his two remaining brain cells aren't talking to each other. He's a good candidate for wall to wall counselling.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Ouch.

That had to hurt, Bloggie.

It's been a pleasure

THAN (sic) DAMMIT IT PRETTY MUCH WORKED, RIGHT?

Consider this possibility: After a long day of you pulling out his fingernails, he guessed the right answer to your question. And you've made an enemy for life out of an innocent man.

all source Intelligence weeds out the WRONG guys

You shouldn't make absolute statements, especially when the government is involved.


It will undoubtedly shock you that we also...

Not shocked. I am shocked that you seem to think there's not much difference really in interrogation tactics, nor should there be, between the savages in Al Qaeda and this country.

And, finally, what would I do to get the info? I guess I'd follow the advice of these guys. Go ahead, call them pansies. Tell them they're all naive and ign'int.

To all of you who have taken time out of your busy days to put me in my place, thanks for your efforts.

To Humblepie and Unsane who talk as though they know me and my every thought, sorry, you don't. I don't fit your stereotypes.

To BD and the other unreformed sadists out there I'm still curious to know if you have engaged in what you yourself would term torture. If not, with what kind of authority on the issue to you purport to speak? If so, how have you avoided prosecution? If you define torture as waterboarding, your definition is too narrow, and not only according to my opinion but also according to our laws and the international treaties we've signed. On the positive side, you're one baby step further than the current administration who won't even confirm that bit of obviousness.

To everyone who wants so badly to believe we have executed this WOT perfectly and only the bad guys are getting hurt because that's what the President and the DOD tell us, I do not and never will share your blind faith. Not because I am a traitor, but because I am a patriot and I've read too much that indicates otherwise. Get your head out of the sand. "Buh, buh, but they're doing it tooo!!!!" is not any kind of mature defense of our flaws.

To those of you who see no problem with us lifting our interrogation techniques from Communist China and Nazi Germany, that's disturbing.

And to pretty much any one willing to ponder the question: do you believe in war crimes? Or is any atrocity that happens associated with war something we should just accept?

This will be my last post on this thread. Have a safe Fourth of July. If you're ever in the DC area, look me up. I'll buy your first beer.

Fingernails? Your kidding,

Fingernails? Your kidding, right? There are other ways of getting information. By your defination, sleep depravation is torture. I guess standing for extended periods of time is to. You still have not told me your experience in obtaining information from the enemy. So I take it you have 0 experience. In intelligence or military. I am right...your posts are evidence enough.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Bass: He is from DC....

Bass:

He is from DC.... nuff said.

Consider this possibility:

Consider this possibility: After a long day of you pulling out his fingernails, he guessed the right answer to your question. And you've made an enemy for life out of an innocent man.

Hahahahahahaha!  You think we ask him.  "We need to know the following because it will help us defeat you...?

Here, I will clue you in about some OTHER very unfriendly regimes handle it.  NOt saying WE do it but this will defeat your statement that that "Torture" is ineffective because it gives bad information.

They gather as much intelligence on the subject and his situation with in the organization as possible.  Including his family.  (Our enemies have been known to use the US press to collect this information as well as the Anti-war groups.)

Then they begin asking the detainee simple and fairly innocuous questions.  How many kids, wifes name, etc.  THis does two things, it tells them when the guy is telling falshoods as well as gives the detainee the knowledge that the interogator knows more than the detainee thinks.

When the detainee tells a falsehood he is punished for it.  THis becomes a great motivator.

The questions become more and more useful, but they still only ask questions you can get a verifiable answer to and punish any falshoods. 

Then they approach the needed Information Requirement from an oblique manner, usually making the question seem more innocuous than the questions they already know the answers to.

Invariably the detainee answers with no evasion. 

It will undoubtedly shock you that we also...

Not shocked. I am shocked that you seem to think there's not much difference really in interrogation tactics, nor should there be, between the savages in Al Qaeda and this country.

You do not think there is a great deal of difference between us waterboarding three senior AQ detainees for a few seconds per, and the torturing to death of our troops.  I pity you.

To BD and the other unreformed sadists out there I'm still curious to know if you have engaged in what you yourself would term torture.

So, I am a sadist because I state the truth that the process is both effective and  sometimes necessary?

You made several false statements and I called you on them.

1.)  Torture is ineffective.

2.)  THe US has lost face because we have waterboarded three seperate AQ leadership caste targets.

3.)  We are an evil nation who others do not respect.

4.)  Our enemeis will treat our POWs worse because of this.  (I still giggle)

Believe it or not, I have been on a minor form of the practice from the receiving end as a simulated prisoner in an exercise.  Mild compared to what most US troops receive at SERE school, which is usually as bad as waterboarding.  And not even mentionable in comparison to what our troops receive from our enemies.

If you define torture as waterboarding, your definition is too narrow, and not only according to my opinion but also according to our laws and the international treaties we've signed.

What other forms of torture do you believe have been conducted by the US?

Under the current Geneva Convention's, we are actually allowed to conduct what is known as Justifiable Repraisal during wartime in order to get our enemeies to re-adhere to the conventions.  What this means is that since our prisoners are tortured to death, the conventions allow us to perform a similar act on our enemies in an effort to get them to act in accordance.

So far, we could have done all of the actions I have specified before and more.  We have done virtually NOTHING.

So please do not talk about treaties until you have studied them.

On the positive side, you're one baby step further than the current administration who won't even confirm that bit of obviousness.

If you are referring to my stipulation that waterboarding would be reffered to as torture to further the discussion with you.  Other than that I actually do not believe that it is.

To everyone who wants so badly to believe we have executed this WOT perfectly and only the bad guys are getting hurt because that's what the President and the DOD tell us,

Perfectly?  No.  Pretty DAMN GOOD?  YEP!

We have freed 50+ Million people at the cost of less than 5,000 US lives and we continue to make progress.

I do not and never will share your blind faith.

Nor do you know my comrades, nor our mission. 

Nor how we live or what we think.

Not because I am a traitor

Nope, but your views are from a sheltered life.

Get your head out of the sand.

I am not the one with a headful of sand.   You are apparently the one who believes war can be one without violence and unpleasantness.

"Buh, buh, but they're doing it tooo!!!!" is not any kind of mature defense of our flaws.

Do I need to re-emphasize the nature of the concept of "Justifiable Repraisal in an effort to re-adhere"?

To those of you who see no problem with us lifting our interrogation techniques from Communist China and Nazi Germany, that's disturbing.

Actually, the first time I ever heard of the Waterboarding technique, it was presented as a discussion in passing by a Liberian Exchange officer who called it the wet sock torture.  The Jordanian, Saudi, and Filipino Officers in the group all nodded that it was not unknown to them as well.

We tried to teach them the 5 S's as a thr eporper way to handle prisoners (Search, SIlence, Segragate, Safeguard, speed tot he rear) and they all laughed.

So it is not the CHinese and Nazi's.

And to pretty much any one willing to ponder the question: do you believe in war crimes?

Yes, but my definitions are based on law and treaties and gained by years of study.  How did you come by your views?

I have had libs tell me shooting an enemy who was not trying to shoot me first is "a warcrime." 

I have had libs like you tell me that using snipers against an enemy squatting over a cooking fire is "a warcrime."

I have had libs tell me that using ambush techniques while not saying "Throw down you arms and come out with your hands up" is a warcrime.

Personnally, I will use the definition of warcrime to define such activities as placing an IED in a toy and throwing over the wall of a family of an Iraqi soldier so that the children will pick them up and blow them to shreds. 

Or placing an IED in the corpse of a kidnapped five year old so the parents can be blown up when they come to claim the body.

Or diving an VBIED into a crowd at a school to kill rival children by the scores.

Now, were you talking about warcrimes?

Or is any atrocity that happens associated with war something we should just accept?

Do you REALLY seek to equivocate our actions with those of our enemies.  Really?  REALLY!?

If you're ever in the DC area, look me up.

Uh, now it all makes sense.

Quotation

"Bingo.  Codeine and sympathy.  The tape recorder in his pocket was already turned on."  - an interrogation scene from the novel Red Storm Rising (1986) by Tom Clancy 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

blogo... Nope, not

blogo...

Nope, not kidding!

Here's why... Let's say there is a plan to blow up 2 nukes here in the USA. One goes off and kills 300,000 people. By the grace of God, our people pick up the ringleader and he knows where the 2nd one will go off. What would you want to happen?

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Ah, the famous 24 question

Let me give you a few similarly difficult ones:

Suppose it was your daughter and she was raped. Would you still oppose abortion in that case?

Suppose you knew that guy at Virginia Tech was about to buy his gun somewhere in VA. Would you still oppose a ban on guns that might have saved those lives?

Suppose you knew the transfat in the next tub of margarine your dad ate would cause a fatal heart attack and he was somewhere at a grocery store right now picking up a container. Would you still oppose a government action to remove transfats from food?

The truth is, the exception doesn't prove the rule in this case. Furthermore, I find your scenario incredible from the get go. It happens on 24, but not so much here in reality.

blogo... Answer my damn

blogo...

Answer my damn question!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Ask me again when

your scenario ever happens and I'm in charge.

Thought experiments like this are troublesome. Did you really get the right guy? Are you sure? How sure are you? Is there really a nuclear bomb? Are you sure? How sure are you? What about that guy he was riding with? Should we torture him too? How about their families? Can we get them all together, women, children, the infirm and start torturing them? What if he's expecting to be tortured and he wants to use this opportunity to feed us false information so we spend all our precious minutes barking up the wrong trees? Dammit! We need information! We're running out of time! Boop-beep, boop-beep, boop-beep... "next week on 24..."

blogo... You are a

blogo...

You are a C-O-W-A-R-D !

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

I don't see you answering my questions

Does that make you I-N-T-E-L-L-E-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E-D?

Last time i checked you

Last time i checked you can't answer a question by saying

"well let me ask you this...."

then get mad at the person for not answering your question to the question they asked you.

only an I-N-T-E-L-L-E-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E-D person would think that

 

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
 -Gerald Ford

blogo the COWARD...

Me challenged?

Let me splain how this works.

Someone #1 makes a claim. Someone #2 disagrees with that claim and sets up a possible scenario. Then based on the scenario the other person #1 answers.

If you can't answer the question, then just admit it. Don't start asking questions to cover up that you have no logical answer to the question originally asked.

And you think I'm the one that's challenged?! Now that's funny!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Come on blog.

 What about that guy he was riding with? Should we torture him too? How about their families? Can we get them all together, women, children, the infirm and start torturing them?

Yes, and make him watch. Ask me a hard one.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I'll Answer

1.) yes

2.) yes

3.) yes

Government is rarely the answer. Stop running to them.

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Suppose it was your

Suppose it was your daughter and she was raped. Would you still oppose abortion in that case?

An innocent child is not guilty of the crime.  We would take care of it.

Suppose you knew that guy at Virginia Tech was about to buy his gun somewhere in VA. Would you still oppose a ban on guns that might have saved those lives?

If I knew he was going to go on a spree, he would be plant food within moments. 

His psychiatrists did not one any favors by not having him locked up for life, including the patient.

Suppose you knew the transfat in the next tub of margarine your dad ate would cause a fatal heart attack and he was somewhere at a grocery store right now picking up a container. Would you still oppose a government action to remove transfats from food?

Dad likes the transfat loaded one.  He will not be satisfied with others.  It is his right to have what he wants to eat, it hurts no one else.

The truth is, the exception doesn't prove the rule in this case. Furthermore, I find your scenario incredible from the get go. It happens on 24, but not so much here in reality.

You know this HOW?

I once read on the news

I once read on the news that somebody got hit by a car while crossing the street. Therefore, no child of mine will EVER cross the street.

Man, poor Bloggie must not be able to leave the house. Living like a scared little wabbit all his life. You better not bathe or shave, Bloggie! You might cut yuorself or get, *GASP!*, DRY SKIN!

(whimper) We need to set the example (whine)

We need to set the example, huh? 

Yeah, THAT'S why the slam where McCain stayed during Vietnam was called the "Hanoi Hilton"!

You should learn to be more thankful.  If this were WWII, the terrorists wouldn't be tortured at all.  You can't torture the dead!

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Think first, then type

What on earth are you trying to say? Why should McCain's experience discourage us from setting an example? Would you rather us follow the example the VC set for us?

Futher, regarding WWII, do you think we had no prisoners of war to torture because we shot them all? That's news to me.

For the history-deprived

We have been following the Geneva Convention for decades and "setting the example" did NOTHING to prevent the hell McCain and company went through in the Hanoi Hilton.  By the way, it wasn't the VC that ran the place: Hanoi was in North Vietnam; the VC were fighting in the South. 

Personally?  If I were king for a day, I would follow a policy called "reciprocity".  We treat the POWs we capture exactly the way you treat ours.  (But then I'm not the king, am I?  I am toe jam like everyone else.)

We held no enemy combatants because we shot them all.  Lawful POWs were kept, but those unlawful enemy combatants - like the spies that showed up on American shores brought here by submarine - were all shot.  In your happy world, we should have Mirandized them all and spoiled them rotten.   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

The Geneva Convention did nothing

to stop us from torturing either. Maybe we should scrap it altogether.

Eye for an eye has been tried.

Apples and oranges. Name for me a spy we captured on our shores in this WOT.

You did not address UNSANES

You did not address UNSANES excellent point dealing with the Justifiable Repraisal, or the fact that illegal combatants have no legal standing and are traditionally SHOT on the field of battle by even the most civilized nations.

Name for me a spy we captured on our shores in this WOT.

Abdullah al Muhajir

Let's call him by his Christian name

Jose Padilla? Spy? Not likely. What government agency was he about to infiltrate before being aprehended? The 7-11 employment office?

Jose Padilla? Spy?1.) He

Jose Padilla? Spy?

1.) He swore allegience to our enemies

2.) He did not openly bear arms, nor wear the distinctive insignia specifiying his combatant status in an open manner.

3.) He began collecting data and information to process into intelligence in support of the mission he gave himself/was presented.

4.) At no time did he openly profess his relationship to the enemy in an open manner such as that of a diplomat, nor did he have diplomatic immunity from a recognized government.

Yep, that about it does it. SPY. LIGHT HIM UP BOYS!

Now reply to UNSANES excellent point on Justifiable repriasal.

Jose Padilla is classified

Jose Padilla is classified by the Geneva Conventions as a spy.  Why?  Because he swore allegiance to the enemy cause, attended and completed the enemy's military training camp after which he attempted to re-enter the United States dressed as a civilian for the stated purpose of engaging in sabotage.

" .. al-Farooq camp, ... Padilla attended in summer 2000"

"The central piece of physical evidence against Padilla is a document labeled "Mujahideen Data Form." Prosecutors say it was recovered from an al-Qaeda training camp and, filled out with Padilla's personal information, shows that he attended terrorist training"

Danke Sehr for fleshing

Danke Sehr for fleshing this out for me.

I see Blogonator has fled the board.

what example would you like

what example would you like to set, the sit on your hand while we get attacked and we do nothing.....that example got us 9/11,

and say what you will about Bush having a memo....if we would have nipped it in the bud there would have been no memo to give Bush

 

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
 -Gerald Ford

Set the example?? Nay, I

Set the example?? Nay, I say! We make them the example, and that will not only deter, but also reduce those who would attack us. Make an example of Iran and watch the others fall into place.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Set a bad example in other words

I disagree.

Now that was

Now that was unexpected...whoed a thunk you would disagree? Making an example of, is not synonymous with setting a bad example. It is synonymous with holding one accountable for ones  actions. Dont tell me, you were never spanked as a child? Well, that explains a lot.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

But violence WORKS

Unfortunately for you foreign policy matters aren't settled in group hugs.  NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, settles matters better or faster than massive amounts of VIOLENCE. 

Violence WORKS.  It WORKS and has worked everywhere it has been tried. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Unsane...

Good point. How did Saddam stay in power for so long? VIOLENCE and lots' of it. And how do you stop violence? With more overwhelming violence.

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Unsane

One word...

Gandhi.

Ok then, let's call in

Ok then, let's call in Gandhi from the dead. He can solve all our problems.

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Clear

Unsane made an absolute statement. I merely provided a counter example.

Mandrake...

How many wars did Gandhi stop?

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Clear

Just one I think...and he managed to free India from British rule while doing so. But I could be wrong, I have been so many times before.

C'mon mandrake, you are

C'mon mandrake, you are going to give him all the credit for the Brits losing their power in India?

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Clear

Ok maybe not..but he did manage to p*** off Churchill. Gotta love a guy for that. Look, I was just was trying to bug Unsane..my arch nemisis..ok so let's drop it :)

Boy, I don't recall Gandhi

Boy, I don't recall Gandhi taking on the Muslim Brotherhood.

DId I miss that chapter?

Think the group hugs would have worked with the MB?  Hahahahahaha!!!!!   soooooooo childish.

We ARE setting the

We ARE setting the example.

What we SHOULD be doing is a good deal of Justified Repriasal (look it up).

WHen AQ tortures and kills one of ours in a most brutal fashion, we do the same to one of theirs in an attempt to get them to adhere to the law of war.  ANd it is all in accordance with the Geneva Convention.

Right now we are the ONLY country with testosterone that would not do similiarly.  They behead one of ours, we take theirs to a tropical paradise in comparison to the mud forts and caves of Waziristan, then allow them lemon chisken and ACLU attourneys who consolidate their defenses by passing information amongst the prisoners.

I bet you would even give them access tot heir attourneys without intel analysts listening in.

blogonator,

And what good is false intelligence gained under these kinds of abuses anyway?

How do you know the intelligence gathered by aggressive interrogation methods has all been false. Because that is what CNN said?

The fact is, you have no clue. None whatsoever.

What if your family lives in, say, Atlanta, and you are travelling in DC and find out that the CIA has a guy in custody who knows there is a nuke set to go off in that city, but the CIA knows not where or when.

Would you then be in favor of asking him nicely?

Actually, you probably would, as you are clearly that stupid.

Thank God there weren't more people like you around during WW II.

The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz

Rush: Just Getting Warmed-Up

And the libs with equal broadcast time?

JDW

Remember the Countrywide Six?

Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?

If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him there?

As the airwaves remain filled with incessant "Ditech" ads

GM's $15 Billion in the hole, but they're still pushing that all-in "we'll take on your variable-rate obligations!" bet against USD inflation. Not a wise move, IMO. Ordinarily I have no problem with unwise moves by businesses where I'm not a shareholder, but as a taxpayer I deeply fear financing yet-another socialist bailout.
JMR

PS Speaking of bailout-fears, I still have yet to see an honest -- or even honest-sounding -- explanation for this graph

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Anybody catch the comment?

While surfing channels last night, I happened upon a segment about how the Obama campaign was trying to carve out a portion of the evangelical population.

In a clip from a speech he articulated things he was for and against.  He was making the point that, in his opinion, DOMA was something that didn't need to be done.  The money quote for me was when explained DOMA stood for Defense Against Marriage Act.  Maybe he was tired but I think it was a Freudian slip.

Sorry I can't cite the program or channel I heard it on, but hopefully someone will be able to locate and post it.

"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

Michelle O said...

I heard, I think it was on GMA, that Michelle said in a speech yesterday at a [not normal sexual preferences] festival that B(censored middle initial)O wants to repeal the DOMA and the military's Don't Ask - Don't Tell policies.

 

 Now they're singing a

 Now they're singing a "black" National Anthem...now it begins.

Meanwhile, headed in the

Meanwhile, headed in the opposite direction....

But still

Way-ahead, by at least $100 million, not counting bonus and not counting CBS-lawsuit victory that got him all his old tapes cheaply...
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Nice non-answer.

Stern's experiment has been a failure. I think "nosedive" would be an apt analogy for Sirius' stock. Stern's first day on the air was Jan 9, 2006, when Sirius' stock was selling for $6.28/share. 2 1/2 years later? $1.90?

Sucka.

But I am sure you will defend Stern to the death in your usual obsessive, stalker way.

Oh, and what does "way-ahead" mean?

It means

$100 Million, like it or not, Whiner, Howard Stern makes more money, and believe it or not, he's not concerned with stock prices any more than Rush probably is.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Tsk tsk on the

Tsk tsk on the name-calling, Sarc.

You are incorrect when you claim Stern does not care about the price of Sirius stock, especially since he received 34 MILLION shares on that day.

So, let's do the math together, ok? When he got the shares, they were worth about $219 million. Today? About $65 million. That works out to about $154 MILLION DOLLARS Stern has LOST since moving to Sirius 2 1/2 years ago. Yep, that SCREAMS success.

Come back when you have some facts to back yourself up, and not the same, tired, lame insults. I am shocked you didn't hurl your second-favorite (see how the hyphen is used properly?) insult, that I worship obese government (apparently just about ANYBODY who disagrees with you does).

So "stalker" is ok but Whiner isn't, Whiner?

One standard. Get used to it. And the math still seems to favor Howard, who isn't responsible for stock prices any more than Rush is. Face it, they're both rich. Deal with it in a mature fashion, for once.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Sirus

After the deal for America, how many shares of Sirus could Rush buy?

JDW

Remember the Countrywide Six?

Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?

If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him there?

But that is not what you

But that is not what you said. You said Stern does not CARE what the price of Sirius stock is, which I pointed out is pure poppycock.

Both guys are rich beyond my wildest dreams, and more power to them. I pointed out two media giants headed in opposite directions quite succinctly, regardless of your attempts to derail the argument with inane claims of who is richer, which I never brought into the conversation becasue it is irrelevent.

That being said, you are a stalker, since you are so predictable in your rabid defense of Stern, Ron Paul, the drug war, etc. You are predictable and easily played. You prowl this website, attacking anyone who dares criticize your idols. Not a slam on you, just the truth.

I think Rush would have a

I think Rush would have a simliar "falling out" that Stern did in going to Satelite Radio. I think that because, all 20 million (whatever that number is) listeners are not going to pay $12.95 a month to listen to him (does anyone know how many pay the $7 bucks to get total access to his website?)

Surely there are people a little smarter than me have some kind of numbers on it, but if there was more money in it, Rush would have done it. Heck, that is why he won't run for President--doesn't want the pay cut.

Not sure why Stern making more money that Rush has to do with anything, except that it was a bigger, poor decision by Sirius.

Agreed, Stern does not care about the stock price. He's gots his. However, the stock price indicates that Sirius is in serious trouble.

 

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

I believe I showed the rise

I believe I showed the rise of Limbaugh clearly contrasts the decline of Stern, the "King of all Media".

Perhaps you are answering your own question. musing about Limbaugh not going to satellite. After watching Stern disappear from the face of the earth, why follow him?

Stern got his "money" in shares of stock, not cash, which I have explained elsewhere in the thread. Stern's payday has been reduced by $150 million or so.

I was unaware of the pay in

I was unaware of the pay in stock and that certainly gives Stern an interest in its success, assuming he still holds it.

Also agreed that Rush is successful, while Stern, probably, was successful.

However, I was under the assumption we were talking about Sterns ineffectiveness, and Rush's, seemingly, invicability.

My point is/was that Satelite radio killed Sterns audience causing his failure. I think it would Rush's would suffer too.

 

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

And the major reason they're in trouble

Involves that "moral" FCC which conservatives love to hate on "fairness" yet love to love when it comes to "indecency," picking central-planning "winners" in a "free" marketplace. Riiiight. One standard, folks, or else continued mockery. Those are your choices.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Moral FCC

conservatives love to hate on "fairness" yet love to love when it comes to "indecency,"

How does the Sirus audience fit into the picture?

Where do the conservatives fit into the deep debts and slow sales?

Why would Clear Channel support Rush with his new contract without the audience base he has built?

What is it that you are trying to say?

JDW

Remember the Countrywide Six?

Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?

If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him there?

worth every penny

worth every penny

I'm wondering if I should

I'm wondering if I should change my NewsBusters username to Rush the $400 million Man Fan?

Congratulations, Rush! Live long and prosper! We need you!

 

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Which political party is invested in our defeat in Iraq?

Internet Magic

Clinton attacks against Obama vanish from Web

JDW

Remember the Countrywide Six?

Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?

If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him there?

My Fellow Tarheels

Yesterday, Sarc linked to a couple stories about the Easley's. His point was that they were IDed as Dems.  

Well here is a link that should really make you mad after reading how the Royal Family of NC treats our tax dollars.  

“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7

rick... As a fellow

rick...

As a fellow Tarheel (transplant), this crap no longer shocks me. I wonder how this state would fare in a contest of "which state has the most crooks in politics". We may have a shot at first place.

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Clear

I never really gave that much thought but you know we could be close to 2nd place. Let's see. Jim Black, Mike Decker and Frank Ballance are all still in the federal pen. Thomas Wright is in the state pen at Bayboro. Meg Scott Phipps just got out after having pulled time with Martha Stewart. This goes back many years but former Lt Gov Jimmy Green pulled some time.

I don't think we are anywhere near IL when you factor in Chicago. They would have to be number 1. Come to think of it Louisiana may be second. They have Cold Cash Jefferson and the city council of New Orleans.

  

“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7

ooops.

ooops.

Not bad for a DJ from Missouri

I've been in radio since 1981 and I couldn't be happier for him.

Rush is the perfect illustratuion of how capitalism works and why it needs to continue.  Newspaper advertising is dwindling as circulation declines.  Network news audiences continue to slip causing network revenues to sink as well.  Yet, somehow, Mr. Limbaugh continues to grow in audience share and ad revenue.

Do you think that anyone, anyone at all who works at any of those mainstream media outlets could draw any conclusions from this simple illustration?

Nah.  Probably not.  That's why they love the "Fairness Doctrine".

"I'd rather be governed by the first 2,000 people in the Boston
telephone directory than the 2,000 faculty at Hardvard Unversity." -
William F. Buckley Jr.

Cindy McCain - True or False?

Some of you may have seen this already.  I just received in my email this morning and the first thing I did was check with Snopes and the status is - TRUE.  I thought it was interesting that I would find out all of this detail about Cindy McCain in an email rather than what passes for news from the media.  If you haven't heard the true story from our agenda-driven media about the very impressive Cindy McCain please note the following:

Election 2008: Cindy Hensley McCain has been disparaged as a trophy wife, a Barbie, an heiress with fancy purses, even the Paris Hilton of politics. But there's more to the picture than meets the eye.

Yes, Mrs. McCain is the perfectly coifed blonde standing dutifully behind the senator during his speeches. And yes, she wears stylish clothing and carries a Prada purse. And it's true she doesn't say much. But feminist critics who write her off as a "stand-by-your-man" shrinking violet are selling her short. In many ways, Cindy McCain stacks up sturdier than Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama. And she'd make a more impressive first lady.

Mrs. McCain: More than meets the eye.

While Obama's wife has been hating America, complaining about the war and undermining our troops serving in  Afghanistan , McCain's wife has been worrying about her sons who actually are fighting or planning to fight in the war on terror. One, in fact, was until a few months ago deployed in Iraq during some of the worst violence.

You don't hear the McCain's talk about it, but their 19-year-old Marine, Jimmy, is preparing for his second tour of duty. Their 21-year-old son, Jack, is poised to graduate from Annapolis and also could join the Marines as a second lieutenant. The couple made the decision not  to draw attention to their sons out of respect for other families with sons and daughters in harm's way.

Cindy also says she doesn't want to risk falling apart on the campaign trail talking about Jimmy who was so young when he enlisted she had  to sign consent forms for his medical tests before he could report for duty and potentially upsetting parents of soldiers who are serving or have been killed.

The McCain's want to make sure their boys get no special treatment. Same goes for their five other children, including a daughter they adopted from Bangladesh . During a visit to Mother Teresa's orphanage there, Cindy noticed a dying baby. The orphanage could not provide the medical care needed to save her life. So she brought the child home to America for the surgery she desperately needed. The baby is now their healthy, 16-year-old daughter, Bridget.

Though all seven McCain children including two Sen. McCain adopted from his first marriage are supportive of their father, they prefer their privacy to the glare of the campaign trail. Another daughter, Meghan, 23, helps him behind the scenes.

Cindy McCain not only cherishes her children, but also her country, which in an election year filled with America-bashing, is a refreshing novelty. She seethed when she heard Michelle Obama's unpatriotic remarks that she only recently grew proud of America . "I am very proud of my country," Mrs. McCain asserted. 

She also may be tougher than the other women in the race. While Hillary thinks she's come under sniper fire on mission trips abroad, Cindy has actually seen violence. She witnessed a boy get blown up by  a mine in Kuwait during a trip with an international group that removes land mines from war-torn countries.

Mrs. McCain also is a hands-on philanthropist. She sits on the board of Operation Smile, which arranges for plastic surgeons to fix cleft palates and other birth defects. She also has helped organize relief missions to Micronesia ..

During a scuba-diving vacation to the islands, Mrs. McCain took a to a local hospital to have a cut treated. She was shocked, and saddened, by what she saw. "They opened the door to the OR, where the supplies were, and there were two cats and a whole bunch of rats climbing out of the sterile supplies," she recalled. "They had no X-ray machine, no beds. To me, it was devastating because it was a U.S. trust territory." As soon as she returned home, she arranged for medical equipment and teams of doctors to be sent to treat the island children.

Michelle Obama may contribute to CARE, which fights global poverty and works to empower poor women. Cindy sits on its board. 

While the Democrat women talk about helping the poor and needy, Cindy McCain actually rolls up her sleeves and does it.

An excellent read!

An excellent read!

But of course, fist-bumping and $150 dresses are far more news worthy. Michelle should be ashamed of herself, as should those liberal cows on The View (E. H. an exception), for being "played up" so much by the MSM.

I would say that at least FoxNews should do a nice segment on her basically covering everything stated above but I have the feeling Cindy (and John) probably said, "No, we want to keep this lowkey".

"All generalizations are false, including this one.” Mark Twain

Obama says he is a Christian, but...

Not sure if any of you have seen this...I real eye opener:

 Cathleen Falsani, the author of The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People, interviewed Barack Obama about his faith March 27, 2004, a few days after he clinched the Democratic nomination for the U.S. Senate seat that he eventually won.
Read the interview HERE.....it shows that B(censored middle initial)O is not a true Christian. He repeatedly affirms then denies Christ, says he believes but is filled with doubt.

 

 

Now, you, too, can dress

Now, you, too, can dress like an extra from "The Village"!

And it's not too late to gets your kids enrolled in summer camp!

 

 

I heard about this today

I heard about this today from Rush himself....

Delicious!

Poor msm if all venues, let alone the politicians... what to do...what to do

I love it...I'm still chucklin'!

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson

3 Americans rescued from FARC!

After five years these three Americans have been rescued from being held captive by FARC after five years...

I have prayed for them for years, and wondered what has ever happened now and then...

 I am so tickled pink!

Others were released too...read about it if interested.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh 

But don't worry Blogonator

They probably weren't tortured during their captivity.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.