For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Obama's fundraising in decline!
Barack Obama reported this evening that he raised $22 million in May -- barely more than Republican John McCain. It is his lowest total in months -- he raised $31 million in April, $40 million in March, and a record $55 million in February -- and does not necessarily show off the fund-raising advantage that helped persuade him to opt out of public funding.
Ed Morrissey pointed out:
The wheels have started coming off the Obama bandwagon. His supporters talked about having a $100 million June, but it looks like the Democrats have wrung most of the funds they could get in the primaries. Small wonder that the campaign waited until Friday night to release this information.
What are your thoughts? Is Morrissey right, and Obama's financing peaked during the nomination process? Or, is this just a blip, and money will begin rolling in again?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
No worries for Obama
June 22, 2008 - 09:28 ET by jefflebowskiI'm sure there is tons of money waiting from China, Venezuela, Iran and other enemies of the US.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Hey Jeff, I heard Al
June 22, 2008 - 09:35 ET by JerryHey Jeff,
I heard Al Queda is have "Bake Sales for Obama" as we speak. That and pay per view be-headings.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Jerry
June 22, 2008 - 09:42 ET by BondPlainBond*LOL*
MoveOn IS currently having bake sales for Obama! No kidding!
Seriously??!! What's next?
June 22, 2008 - 09:57 ET by JerrySeriously??!! What's next? Begging school kids to send in their lunch money?
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Jerry....it's already been done here...
June 22, 2008 - 15:36 ET by BEGRUNTthere was a story in yesterdays paper about a 7th grader, raising money, and making campaign calls. And he did this "on his own", ya, right..........lets here it for the Obama Youth Brigades, dont forget your red beret.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
If this were being done for
June 22, 2008 - 18:14 ET by motherbeltIf this were being done for a Republican, we would be hearing cries of "Brainwashing!" and "Hitler Youth"! from the Left.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
Of course. You'd hear it
June 22, 2008 - 21:22 ET by GregEOf course. You'd hear it from the media. But in Obama's case, the media is a huge player in it so....
Jerry, Obama bake sales
June 22, 2008 - 09:57 ET by jefflebowskiwhy am i not surprised??
I really cannot believe that the DemonRat candidate is a guy with no experience, a Chicago community activist (read: black Al Sharpton wannabe), who attended Muslim schools and is named Barack Hussein Obama. How low have we fallen if this is the best the DemonRats can do?
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
MoveOn Bake Sale for Obama
June 22, 2008 - 10:14 ET by BondPlainBondFrom my E-Mail:
The biggest bake sale ever?
Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:37 PM
From: "Nita Chaudhary, MoveOn.org Political Action"
<moveon-help@list.moveon.org>
Dear MoveOn member,
Hundreds of "Hungry for Change" bake sales all around the country.
Thousands of MoveOn members baking hundreds of thousands of cookies, cakes, and pies.
All to raise money for MoveOn's massive campaign to reach millions of voters this fall and help elect Barack Obama. Incredible.
Don't stop now—we're trying to make this weekend's bake sale the biggest in history. If you haven't already, please sign up to bring something sweet to sell at the bake sale in XXX.
Hope you can make it this weekend, and thanks for all you do.
–Nita, Andrea, Daniel, Patrick S., and the MoveOn.org
Political Action Team
Thursday, June 19th, 2008
Etc, etc, etc
How long before "Hungry for
June 22, 2008 - 18:19 ET by motherbeltHow long before "Hungry for Change" morphs into "GO HUNGRY for Change!": Skip that Starbucks one morning....skip that lunch one day a week and donate the money to the Obama! Change requires sacrifice!"
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
Ya know mother, the way..............
June 22, 2008 - 18:56 ET by BEGRUNTthings are going right now, that would not surprise me one bit!!
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
BLAHAHAHAHAAHAH, hilarious.
June 22, 2008 - 21:24 ET by GregEBLAHAHAHAHAAHAH, hilarious. Cookies, pies, laced brownies, kool-aid...
They could have a July 4th
June 22, 2008 - 10:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberThey could have a July 4th Money Bomb! Literally...
$22 million is still a good bit of money.
June 22, 2008 - 09:39 ET by sarcasmoAnd he seems to be ahead anyway, so people are probably saying "times are tough, I don't have to give him any more." The important thing to watch is what the news media doesn't want Americans to watch, which is the odds. Barak's ahead at this point by a bit.
JMR
PS The US government STILL keeps 2 sets of books!
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I agree. People don't have
June 22, 2008 - 09:54 ET by motherbeltI agree. People don't have extra money, they are expecting prices on everything to continue to rise, and are being cautious about spending money on non-essentials.
He may end up sorry he decided to forgo public money as prices rise.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
$22 million is still a good bit of money.
June 22, 2008 - 09:58 ET by allamericangirlI agree with you
Maybe all that bragging about the money rolling in for Obama will backfire.
They claim the money is from small everyday donors
I think I would stop breaking into my piggybank after hearing he has all this money.
I might opt to do something more useful like fill up my gas tank.
"I have always been proud of my country"- Cindy McCain
allamerica......small everyday donors....i.e....
June 22, 2008 - 15:41 ET by BEGRUNTlegions of Soros people given money to donate, to make it look grassroots.....it is sooooo phony.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Begrunt... Exactly...and
June 22, 2008 - 15:49 ET by bigtimerBegrunt...
Exactly...and the $$$ will keep rolling in...the msm doesn't care one with where he gets his money...they will look the other way...just like they did with the Clintoon Duo, when possible...plus they covered and defended them too with their illegal donations..
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Speaking of bookies, how
June 22, 2008 - 10:19 ET by Roger the ShrubberSpeaking of bookies, how much did you sink into Ron Paul's successful presidential campaign? After all, you mentioned more than once about how the overseas betting websites were absolutely sporting raging clues for your Master, right? I would think any advice you would offer should be considered suspect at best.
*insert lame, old, tired, typically Sarcasmo "Whiner" response below*
You worship big government
June 22, 2008 - 10:34 ET by sarcasmoWhiner.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Uh-oh, Sarky's going to be
June 22, 2008 - 11:42 ET by Roger the ShrubberUh-oh, Sarky's going to be pouty all day. Pouty and grumpy like the little boy he is, when shown to be a mental midget.
Oh, and boy, that search function that NB has sure worked fine for me. Do you need help to learn how to use it to back up your lies and accusations? Let me know.
Have a nice day, boy-toucher.
Another day, another meltdown
June 23, 2008 - 12:16 ET by sarcasmoAnd I'm not the one who's lying here, Whinebot.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Awwww....
June 23, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Roger the ShrubberSomebody's still pouty and cranky.
Need your binky before you take your nap, Sarky?
Pouty??
June 23, 2008 - 13:40 ET by sarcasmoI just call 'em like I see 'em, Liar.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
And, as I pointed out
June 23, 2008 - 13:45 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd, as I pointed out yesterday on this thread, to your obvious embarrassment, you are quite the Mr. Magoo when you "call it like you it".
Toodles, boy-toucher!
Another meltdown!
June 23, 2008 - 13:50 ET by sarcasmoI'd thought Warner had schooled you on this one, but obviously you don't learn as well as you lie.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Crisis time
June 23, 2008 - 17:11 ET by Roger the ShrubberKindly find this thread where Warner "schooled me".
Uh-oh, what's poor Paulbot gonna do?
If you find it, you nullify your constant complaining about the lousy NB search function. You will then be then forced to find those supposed posts of mine where you claimed I supported Stevens, and "worship obese gov't" (another canard of yours you throw out when you have lost an argument. You have used it on Unsane in the past, too).
If you do not find this thread, that means, once again, you are full of crap, and just throwing words out out of desperation and, here's the ironic part, MELTING DOWN! Oh, the dilemma!
Hurry, Sarky! Find it!
Obama Is Out-of-Touch With Everyday Americans
June 22, 2008 - 09:40 ET by BondPlainBondWhat the hell are the "new politics" Obama talks about, anyway? There's absolutely nothing "new" about Obama.
When close to 80 percent of the American public, liberals included in that percentage, want to drill, and drill now, as a bridge while alternative energy solutions are expanded upon and made cost-effective, Obama standing next to a gas pump and saying the rising gas prices are a good thing, he's only disappointed the rise in cost wasn't more gradual, because the higher prices will "teach us" not to use so much energy and will force us to develop alternative energy sources, but absolutely no drilling - ever... never, never, never!
I'm sure that lifted a few million eyebrows and has cast him in a completely inept and out-of-touch light. He doesn't have the everyday American in mind when he speaks his elitist-speak, some are getting the message. The everday American needs to keep those $5s and $10s to fill up the tank for the foreseeable future. Better to have gas in-the-tank than to be in-the-tank for Obama.
His blaming every criticism he receives on racism is getting really tiresome, too; he's sounding more and more like Jeremiah Wright as his level of frustration rises. People are putting two and two together.
No Obama
There's absolutely nothing
June 22, 2008 - 09:59 ET by motherbeltThere's absolutely nothing "new" about Obama.
Did you miss the fact that he's the first major candidate since the 70's to forgo public financing? That's "new"....that's "change." Why stick with the "old" way?
He will "change" what suits him...you know, like the Presidential seal, Scripture, whatever.
He also thinks it's stupid to wait 5 years for the benefits to come in from drilling in ANWR, but thinks it's perfectly reasonable to mandate higher MPG standards and wait 5 years (or more) for there to be enough of those cars on the road to make a difference.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
motherbelt
June 22, 2008 - 10:02 ET by BondPlainBondPointed points taken.
Brits REJECT humans affect climate
June 22, 2008 - 09:42 ET by Jack BauerDespite all the lies, all the hype, all the propaganda, and the elevation of Saint Al... get this...
THE MAJORITY OF BRITONS DO NOT BELIEVE THEY CAUSE THE CLIMATE TO CHANGE...
And the Logic Deniers are SO shocked and outraged their tiny heads may just explode. Doesn't it make you feel GOOD!
Saw this too
June 22, 2008 - 12:05 ET by TjexciteI watch a show on Discovery about the early earth and before life evolved earth became a snowball. I was shoked that they did not blame the current warmth to man but then natural cycle and than it can happen again. It showed how much cycle there is in the world and life. more CO2 earth will be green and warm with more plant growth and when the CO2 drops after all the CO2 is fixed in plant starchs and earth cools and turns brown then relesing the CO2 back. I was scared it would turn to that man changed this cycle with the SUV but it did not. It was one of the most rational shows I have seen on Discovey for awhile.
Synopses: Naked Science - "Snowball Earth" Imagine a world frozen solid. Imagine that vast sheets of ice, hundreds of metres thick, encased the entire planet - a giant snowball floating through space. This is not some exotic new world deep in space - it may have been our world, the Earth. In this episode, Naked Science explores what may have been the most extreme period of Earth's climatic history. Some top-ranking scientists believe that in the past the Earth completely froze over for millions of years... then warmed up rapidly approximately 600 million years ago. Struggling against skepticism and disbelief for years, these experts have gathered a growing body of evidence supporting the claim, and others in the scientific community are slowly coming around to the incredible idea - not just of the dramatic freeze, but of an equally extraordinary thaw.
and a $200 billion July
June 22, 2008 - 09:44 ET by redherkeyWhat... upward trajectories don't project out to infinity? You mean Obama's uber-brilliant advisors might have been wrong when they assumed every month would show the same super-normal growth?
Crap. This might explain Democrat Rep. Laura Richardson's multi-mortgage default, and my Pets.com stock that my broker said isn't tradable. Like Laura, I need to find out who I'm supposed to sue or who in the government will bail me out for my loss. If rich beachfront property owners can force midwesterners to subsidize their insurance, isn't there someone who doesn't own stocks who needs to fork over the dough for my stock.
Actually, the donations
June 22, 2008 - 09:53 ET by JerryActually, the donations were trending downward, which makes their projections even worse.
Feb: $55m
Mar: $40m
Apr: $31m
May $22m
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Checking the math
June 22, 2008 - 09:50 ET by redherkeyHis supporters talked about having a $100 million June
Oh crap. We're doing it wrong. Perhaps the double-plus-good Obama PR campaign (aka the mainstream media) will clarify this to mean what I'm sure they originally intended:
His supporters talked about having reached a $100 million cumulative fundraising by June
May = $22 million
April = $31 million
March =$40 million
February = $55 million
Total > $100 million!
Mission Accomplished!
Uh-Oh
June 22, 2008 - 10:18 ET by BondPlainBondMaybe Obama should have stuck with keeping the public campaign contributions as the way to go. $84M is probably starting to sound pretty good to him with those projections trending so quickly downward.
-15 mill -9 mill - 9 mill
June 22, 2008 - 10:44 ET by AJSHOPEIf he loses another 9 mill for June, he may want to rethink his decision. The wheels on Barak's famous bus are definitely beginning to fall off, it's just a matter of how quickly they fall off. Let's hope it's quick enough for him to lose, but not so quick that it gets Hillary back in the race.
What we should expect
June 22, 2008 - 10:30 ET by ThisisMattSince Obama opted out of public funds, we should expect that someone within his campaign had a reasonable expectation of additional donor capacity.
Expect a full court press in the coming months once the "Obama has the most money ever" storyline to die out.
Tom Brokaw is new moderator
June 22, 2008 - 10:54 ET by shawn228Tom Brokaw is new moderator for Meet The Press.
I know not many members like him very much, but he is a much better pick than Mathews or Olbermann
Tom Brokaw
June 22, 2008 - 10:57 ET by BlondeNot a bad choice, actually.
I would have preferred Joe Scarborough, he can be quite good when he's not dealing with Mika the Twit.
Thanks for the info, S.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Tom Brokaw...I came I saw I yawned
June 22, 2008 - 11:08 ET by jefflebowskiJust another lib talking head I won't watch. Who cares? Does anyone really watch these shows?
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Meet the Press
June 22, 2008 - 11:16 ET by BlondeI used to watch it occasionally due to the calibre of guests Tim Russert was able to attract. So I suppose Tom Brokaw is an apt replacement, can you imagine what kind of guest Keiffy O. would be able to book? Sheesh!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
NBC hires a temp
June 22, 2008 - 11:06 ET by nkviking75Based on the wording of the linked article, it sounds like a temp gig to me. Brokaw is one of the few people at NBC News with any respectability left.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Yes, A Temp Gig
June 22, 2008 - 12:32 ET by stratmanThis morning on MTP, Brian Williams said Brokaw would be the moderator of MTP through the presidential election.
What will happen thereafter is speculation. Maybe the future permanent hire needs time to extricate themselves from their current contract/assignment before joining the show.
BTW, Andrea Mitchell was on this morning and actually gave a couple of not totally in Obama's camp opinions (though most of what she said sounded like a school girl's crush on an upper classman). Maybe she was auditioning for the big chair?
Also, Joe Biden is still a douche and Lindsey Graham needs to wipe that kooky grin off his face when his opponent gets the better of him. Biden claimed oil companies currently hold leases to thousands of acres of offshore area which supposedly would give them access to 70% of the presumed offshore oil. According to Biden, oil co's should drill on the area they already have and stop asking for more (like ANWR). Graham feebly replied that moratoriums prevent current drilling. When Biden said there weren't barriers to drilling offshore, Graham did not vigorously challenge Biden or submit corroborating/additional data.
It's not like Graham shouldn't have anticipated being asked about oil and domestic drilling. It is only the hot button topic of the past few weeks! How freaking hard would it have been for Graham to be spoonfed the info by his staff in anticipation of his appearance on MTP? For a former JAG, Graham really dropped the ball on this and looked foolish.
Of course, Williams could/did not correct or challenge either opinion, instead leaving the viewer to make an uniformed conclusion as to whom was correct. Typical media failing to do their job of factually informing the public. MTP and Williams highlighted TWO of Graham's past quotes about not wanting domestic drilling, both saying the same thing, yet they can't do their own homework about drilling offshore.
Pathetic, lazy and probably partisan journalism.
RRAM Tough!
Tommy Boy
June 22, 2008 - 11:26 ET by BondPlainBondI like Tom Brokaw. I like him a helluva lot more than Olbermann, that's for certain! How was Olbermann even considered? Sheer lunacy!
Brokaw has the capacity to be even-handed and even-headed.
Congrats, Tom.
Back to the panel
June 22, 2008 - 15:25 ET by KC MulvilleI thought Jonah Goldberg (of National Review) had a good point about MTP. For years, MTP was a panel of interviewers, grilling the subject from various sides. When Russert came along, he changed it to a single interviewer (himself). Maybe they should go back to the panel, leaving the "moderator' simply as a host/traffic cop. That way, the host wouldn't need to be any superstar, just someone who could keep track of time.
Frankly, I'd love to watch someone like Bob Novak, Byron York, or James Taranto sit on a panel and quiz Barack Obama. Or McCain, for that matter.
I have had the same thought
June 22, 2008 - 17:51 ET by stratmanI have had the same thought about returning to a panel instead of a solitary inquisitor for MTP since the day Russert died. It was an excellent format and could ensure more of the appropriate questions were asked of all the guests.
RRAM Tough!
I join with you strat and
June 22, 2008 - 18:03 ET by bigtimerI join with you strat and KC...it would be a lot better IMO also.
I want to add, I cannot stand Brokaw, never have been able to...I'm going to give it a try to see how he does, but he is so blatantly partisan to me I don't know if I will be able to handle him for an hour...he sure used msnbc to help Tester win in Mt...where half if not more of where he was talking from during the last mid-term elections...he lives here part time, he joins with the likes of Turner and others in the little leftist crowd for their own agenda...
They NBC put him in for a reason up til' the election in my opinion.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
And Brokaw posed for the
June 22, 2008 - 20:40 ET by stratmanAnd Brokaw posed for the front cover of the Lefty-Loopy rag Mother Jones in 1983. Brokaw trashes Ronald Reagan in the accompanying article.
His vocal mannerisms seem a tad too effete for my taste, but he is miles ahead of the likes of Spittleboy Matthews and Insane On The Membrane Olbermann.
RRAM Tough!
LOL strat... Come on, you
June 22, 2008 - 20:54 ET by bigtimerLOL strat...
Come on, you have to know me well enough by now to know just about any breathing creature on earth is better than Olbie/Matthews...
I just wished they would of had Gregory or somebody like him, Gregory has been really surprisingly fair with his new show on msnbc...I know they are all basic leftists..but I have been listening to that smug arrogant over-rated Brokaw since I have been a kid just about...
I cannot stand the leftist...I know it is just my opinion...nevertheless...I am not one bit surprised with the choice...he has gravitas according tot he msm...he is there until he elections for a reason, more than one, it matters not in the long run to me, because I only listened to Russert just depending on who his guests were...I knew full well where his bias was...and it wasn't all that hard to see if you were a political junkie, plus grew up with him too.
Oh well..in the end with NBC it's all agenda.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I owe you an antacid! I
June 22, 2008 - 21:45 ET by stratmanI owe you an antacid!
I do not care for any of the aforementioned Liberals/Extremists.
Gregory has shown flashes of independence and aggressive questioning of Democrats but he is too much an obnoxious excitable boy without the requisite gravitas. He probably is one of the frontrunners because he has already hosted MTP and is a known quantity.
Gwen Eiffel would also be a logical choice for a variety of reasons, including NBC tipping it's hat to the race and gender activists. She is bright and smooth on her PBS program and carries a measure of maturity that Gregory hasn't attained yet.
A somewhat darkhorse favorite of mine, if I can only select from Liberal candidates, is Chuck Todd, NBC's News political director. He's folksy with good insight like Russert, worked his way up the ladder in an honest fashion, has some respect from both sides of the aisle, and will last at least 20 years before a heart attack. On the downside, Chuck may be a tad too nice, too soft spoken, to wrangle Democrat hydras like Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Gore and Webb.
Where's Hercules when we need him?
Lastly, I found this whackadoodle while research something else. Read his "Bio" found to the right of his name at the top. I'll bet he wasn't repeating those sentiments too loudly this past week, especially in Buffalo.
RRAM Tough!
It's hard to say. Will his
June 22, 2008 - 11:16 ET by moonjohnIt's hard to say.
Will his “small donors(?)” send him $80, or will they use the money to fill their gas tanks?
This is terrible
June 22, 2008 - 11:32 ET by shawn228Foreign firms beat US to Iraq Investment.
It is great that people are starting to invest in Iraq, after all that we have spent and lives lost, shouldn't American, British and other countries that were part of the coalition to invade, always have first dibbs?
Why? That would mean we
June 22, 2008 - 11:38 ET by Roger the ShrubberWhy?
That would mean we went to Iraq to plunder it for our own greedy desires, would it not?
No "war for oil", right? Quite the conundrum, isn't it? Could it mean that, *gasp!*, George Bush was right?
Exactly, Rog
June 22, 2008 - 14:35 ET by Indiana JoeThese lefties* have claimed for years that W went to war to enrich his buddies. "No blood for oil," and all that. Now, Shawn complains that American companies (those same "evil" rich folks) aren't getting preference when the pie gets served.
It is to laugh.
*- I don't know that Shawn specifically said these things, but he kinda stands in for "the left" around here.
well Indiana Joe
June 22, 2008 - 16:34 ET by shawn228I was going to reply with a sarcastic comment, about you not being one the members hear that don't back up their accusasations.
Thank you for your edit.
As far as being the first. If you buy buy an abandoned property and you pay for the fix up, in this case thousands of lives, a projected 1.3 trillion cost to our country and we should not have first dibs on whatcompanies can be developed there?..Please!!!
"First dibs" yet again, Shawn?
June 22, 2008 - 16:39 ET by BlondeWhat do you not understand?
The U.S. Government doesn't dictate what companies other companies can do business with here! GM can buy leather for it's seats from whomever it chooses. Why should it be any different in Iraq?
Are you saying we should control all aspects of Iraqi life? Sounds like it to me.
Come on shawn....THINK!
And the "first dibs" crap is pure childishness.
P.S. I don't expect an answer from you this time, since you so pointedly ignored me the first time. But for crying out loud, quit the whining already!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde
June 22, 2008 - 16:47 ET by shawn228I'm sorry, I believe I am the one being the capilist here. We fought all the militias, took our Sadamn and s projected 1.6 trillion cost.
I believe we have every right to share in that oil revenue as well as being the first companies to do business in Iraq.
I feel it is just. I am a ethical person and stealing is wrong. This is not stealing, it is owed to us.
PS
I have never been a post and runner and I went out in the afternoon and got back a half hour ago.
First of all s,
June 22, 2008 - 16:57 ET by BlondeI didn't accuse you of being a post-&-runner, but I did notice you ignored my response to you.
So....just exactly how is it that companies from other countries go into the country of Iraq, and provide them with goods and services that the Iraqis want/need....and you call that stealing? From whom are they stealing? Us? How is that? Do we OWN Iraq now that we invaded it, deposed its dictator, and are returning it to a semblance of civility? Hmmm?
American firms are free to compete with these "theiving foreigners" (your inference) on a level playing field.
Why do we have "every right to share oil revenue"? Don't the libs all spout that the Iraq war was about oil? Doesn't this totally disprove the theory that the war was all about us expropriating Iraq's oil....rather that revenue sharing is based on the input of both (or more) joint parties in a revenue based endeavor? Furthermore, who said the parties had to be Iraq & the U.S.? Who is putting up the capital?
Just to clarify things for you, we didn't go into Iraq as a capatilistic proposition, we went in to lop the head off the dictator who was making threats with WMD.
Capitalism is a secondary benefit of a democratic society.
So for all your moaning and groaning about the unfairness of it all, I think it perfectly proves the conservative view on the what, when, why and what's next for the Bush doctrine's Iraq policy.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Well Blonde
June 22, 2008 - 17:13 ET by shawn228I do not believe we own Iraq, but we shoud take some monetray gain, until we recouped our loses. It will not take long to repay that with oil revenue.
What if Barack Obama is voted in as the next President of the United States? Will we leave and make Iraq a terrorist playground?
I believe when we leave, we leave a troops to protect the oil. If Israel is gearing up for war with Iran, they will be a target.
I can see war with Iran in the horizon.
Say what?
June 22, 2008 - 17:26 ET by BlondeWell, you answered one of my questions...but not the rest. So I'll start over: To whit:
How, exactly, should we "take some monetary gain, until we recouped our loses [sic]"?
Just steal their oil? It's not ours, Shawn, it belongs to them.
And if Barry is elected, and pulls out precipitously, we will absolutely leave Iraq in a mess. Even the liberal saviour understands that, and has (dare I say flip-flopped??) changed his position on a yellow-bellied immediate withdrawl from Iraq. Go figure. Realpolitic sucks for Barry.
And yes, war with Iran may be on the horizon. Better for us to be fully deployed, and supported by a huge logistic tail, RIGHT NEXT DOOR, as we are now, than from Diego Garcia, Okinawa or somesuch, as the dems have suggested.
I see that hanging out with conservatives has finally gotten your neurons to fire. Keep it up, they'll fire faster, and finally you'll see the light.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde
June 22, 2008 - 17:32 ET by shawn228My answer that is the oil is sold to us exclusively. We pay for it, but the supply is ours. Also I feel that Americans should have the choice on whether to invest or not invest in doing in business. The Iraqis get the monetary gain they need, and we reep benefits as well. If we car get rid the terrorist, it might not too bad to do business there.
Oh I see....
June 22, 2008 - 17:56 ET by BlondeAnd where is the liberal angst over what the rest of the world says, hmmmm?
Shawn, being a conservative means taking the good with the bad, and not changing the rules of the game in the middle to suit expediency.
I really don't understand how you can fail to see that.
Why should they sell oil to us exclusively if it's not the most profitable for them?
Oh, forget it. Your mind is so closed, and you hold your preconceived notions so dear that you'll never get it in a million years.
So, continue on with your juvenile world view. It's no skin off of my nose.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Shawn: There are two
June 22, 2008 - 19:00 ET by stratmanShawn:
There are two major issues with what you are suggesting.
1) America is not an imperialistic form of government.
2) America is not a mercenariness form of government.
To use a fishing analogy, America has been throughout her history a "catch and release" entity outside our borders. We do not invade, hold and force our culture upon souvereign nations or peoples at the end of a sharp stick. Puerto Rico, Guam and other Protectorates are free to dissociate from the US essentially at will and without malicious backlash.
While there are hopes for a safer Middle East and USA as well as economic rewards via shared business interests public and private (more crude oil for the USA and more wealth sharing for Iraqi and US citizens), it is paramount for Iraq to rebuild itself relatively free of US capatalistic/political micro-management. The idea is to showcase the independently and democratically gained freedoms and prosperity of a dictator-free and mullah/mofti/ayatollah-free nation in which diverse peoples can live together and thrive.
If the US did what you suggest, and there are some promises of improved crude oil production for the USA to help pay for the war, then anti-American sentiments would be given more weight and the US would have a more difficult time "winning the hearts and minds" across the Middle East. That would delay fuller US safety and impact further economic stability.
It certainly has been a highwire balancing act. I await with apprehension the circus act to follow if Obama becomes president.
RRAM Tough!
Shawn: Here is an article
June 22, 2008 - 21:09 ET by stratmanShawn:
Here is an article of the peaceful process of capitalism which has sprung from the freedom they now enjoy: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin.
Notice that the American firm is in the bidding process along with other companies who helped free Iraq. No matter who gets the contract, America will benefit from increasing production of crude oil, though it would be nice for some of those jobs and profits to be America's.
Also, Iraq has posted its second largest month of crude imported into the USA since the fall of Saddam. It has also posted the best consecutive 2 month record of importation in the same timeframe. Things are looking up, at least recently.
While you are looking at that table, keep in mind that the horrendously, criminally managed "Oil For Food", AKA money-for-nothing-and-the-chicks-are-free at the UN, program was in effect from 1996-2003 (ending with the war), and, the uptick in Iraq violence beginning in 2004 from Iranian interference and Mookie al Sadr. Various skirmishes can be traced back to some of the spikes in crude pruduction/exportation as well as the rotting industry infrastructure that needed repair.
Speaking of the galactic slush fund known as "Oil for Food" program, 25% of revenues were to go to Kuwait as war reparations. IIRC, when the West directed more heat at Saddam to comply with various procedures/policies he would drop crude oil production to use as a bargaining chip.
RRAM Tough!
"First dibbs", shawn?
June 22, 2008 - 11:48 ET by BlondeFor crying out loud, grow up, and then read your own link.
Many of the foreign firms that are entering into business relationships in Iraq already did business there. Hmmm....do business with someone new, or with a known commodity?
Furthermore, these "foreign" firms are pursuing profits. It's a risk and return game, shawn, Economics 101. American firms are invited to play, and if they don't win, that's the way the capitalist world works.
This is great news for the Iraqui people. Why are you crying in your milk?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
blonde
June 22, 2008 - 11:54 ET by shawn228I agree, this is a great thing for Iraqi people. I just feel that Americans were the ones that did all the grunt work, and other countries are reaping the benefits.
China for example did not commit anything, and they can reap the rewards. It just does not seem right.
Apples & Oranges, S.
June 22, 2008 - 12:00 ET by BlondeThe majority of U.S. government reconstruction projects were open only to coalition-based firms.
Non-US gov. projects, however, are just like any other business venture (think Dubai ports). Open to the company that is best able to provide whatever goods/service is required at the most competitive/advantageous price.
There is no big justice scale in this world, shawn, where things are "right" or "fair" by fiat. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll grow up and learn to live in a reality-based mode.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
And yet, why do I get the
June 22, 2008 - 19:58 ET by ckc1227And yet, why do I get the feeling that if American firms were first in line, you'd be bitching about going to war to line our pockets?
well your simply wrong ckc1227
June 22, 2008 - 20:31 ET by shawn228Don't trust your feeling.
Shawn,
June 22, 2008 - 21:12 ET by Free StinkerShawn,
Does this mean that you support the AMERICAN company Halliburton being in Iraq, and "getting a piece of the action" ??
tenatively.....
June 22, 2008 - 21:26 ET by shawn228I would say yes. However, I woud do an independent probe to see if there was no wrong doing in the no bid contracts, if they are innocent they have nothing to worry about.
Obama bucks
June 22, 2008 - 13:21 ET by juspassinthruPerhaps the decline in donations is due in part to all the 'defeat Hillary' money that came in. Now that she's gone, it looks as if Soros and his buddies will have to make up the shortfall, or, even better, leave him twisting the wind.
It'll be interesting to see which direction the donations take after the Ebony and Ivory Tour hits the trail Wednesday.
jpt... It'll be
June 22, 2008 - 16:28 ET by bigtimerjpt...
It'll be interesting to see which direction the donations take after the Ebony and Ivory Tour hits the trail Wednesday.
Interesting indeed...I also am curious about all of this too...just what the outcome will be...bet the msm starts loving Hill again.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
BT
June 22, 2008 - 18:01 ET by juspassinthru.bet the msm starts loving Hill again.
You've hit a home run there. The msm has been keeping their 'love' on hold 'til she gets out there to campaign for Hussein. This will be more about fundraising for Hillary (in her mind) to pay down her campaign debt than votes for Hussein.
Makes one wonder what kind of deal was struck at DiFi's house because Hillary is out for no one but Hillary.
She will be back.
Jihad killer
June 22, 2008 - 18:08 ET by bigtimerHere is something I thought maybe a few of you may be interested in...it starts in an hour.
Jihad Killer.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Thanks bt..........
June 22, 2008 - 18:45 ET by BEGRUNTI will check it out. Looks like my type of blog site.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
LOL-Does anybody here know what Matthew and his "evil twin"...
June 22, 2008 - 21:35 ET by R D Helm...are up to?
I mean, together, they have been burning up the Who's Online window in a big way the last few days.
Just curious. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD seen that,
June 23, 2008 - 23:14 ET by upcountrywaterI thought it was his new wife? now i look and there 3 of them???
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
ucw, I think Matthew is engaged in some weird cloning experiment
June 23, 2008 - 23:29 ET by R D HelmLOL-As I, too, noticed there were three of him.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Plug in your favorite Rep
June 22, 2008 - 21:51 ET by GregEPlug in your favorite Rep or Senator.
http://www.cagw.org/...
More in awe of the
June 22, 2008 - 21:57 ET by GregEMore in awe of the Messiah...
http://news.yahoo.co...
Thanks Greg...
June 22, 2008 - 22:03 ET by Clear thinkerI think I will go and throw-up now.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Welcome back NB
June 23, 2008 - 09:18 ET by shawn228Missed you guys the past ten hours. I'm telling ya, you guys need to get more advertisers to pay the bills. Might I suggest Victorias Secret? :-)
LOL-shawn, you are headed straight for dirty-old-mandom.
June 23, 2008 - 22:09 ET by R D HelmAs am I. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Cut it out RD
June 23, 2008 - 23:13 ET by shawn228You going to get me in trouble.:-) Besides I read Victorias Secret for the articles and....ummm actually there are no articles in there huh ?...ummm well. Look a puppy! Shawn inconspiously leaves room.
Shawn, LOL. You read Victoria's Secret for the articles?
June 23, 2008 - 23:25 ET by R D HelmWHAT ARTICLES?
Other than the skimpy articles of clothing, I mean. :-)
And yes, I love puppies, too, as, just like babies, God makes them so cute that you won't kill 'em when they, well, you know.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
George Carlin RIP..loved
June 23, 2008 - 23:04 ET by mandrakeGeorge Carlin RIP..loved that guy!
mandrake... Amen to
June 23, 2008 - 23:29 ET by bigtimermandrake...
Amen to that...
I will miss the Hippy-Dippy Weatherman!
...along with the rest of his laughter he has brought me over my life.... and all that stuff!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, George Carlin ranks right up there with Justin Wilson as...
June 23, 2008 - 23:39 ET by R D Helm...sadly deceased National Treasures.
Doubt we will ever see the likes of them again.
Sad, that is.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD/Carlin
June 23, 2008 - 23:52 ET by bigtimerGreat way to put that RD...over the years he may have made me sort of mad politically, mostly Imus' show...anyway did you click on the links I have here...at least the first one, then the second...I know I am about ten years older than you...but I tell you, when he came out with the Hippy-Dippy Weatherman spiel...I about died laughing, still am laughing thinking about it...hell, I was in mid-teens I think, anyway, the one I would of liked to find is him on Carson pointing to the charts/maps as he is talking about the weather...maybe someday I can find those...but these two are pretty funny...and you cannot believe how he looked in '66...let alone all of us I suppose...heheheee...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson