For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: debasing the Olympic torch:
The Olympic torch has had to be extinguished three times amid protests by anti-China demonstrators in Paris.
Is this getting out of hand, or an appropriate protest? Have China's actions tarnished this year's Games, and diminished your interest? Does this have the potential of becoming 1980 all over again?














Comments Policy
From what I've read...
April 7, 2008 - 10:41 ET by sarcasmoThe ancients would stop a war to hold the Olympics. It's sad, for athletes and for mankind, that politics has become so-all-important that we can't focus on anything else without its taint.
And before I'm accused of it, I'm not defending China's actions (or anyone else's) by saying this. I'd be impressed by a hypothetical group of people silently & peacefully wearing black armbands as the torch goes by. I'm much-less impressed when some "LOOK AT ME!!!" protester-jerk tries to grab the torch...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I agree
April 7, 2008 - 11:05 ET by Prester JohnMany of the people carrying the torch in these countries have dedicated their lifes to excellence in their chosen sport. What is the point of ruining the opportunity of a lifetime with such childish and pointless antics?
It only will only harden the Chinese government's (who of course are nothing but thugs) attitude towards the situation and make this years Olympics rival the '36 Berlin Games.
Fortunately Chicoms will have the spotlight on them and will never be able to hide everything they want to. It will interesting to see how hard the "free" media will push against the state run media goon squads in their attempts to tell the Olympic story.
Welcome To The Big Leagues, China
April 7, 2008 - 12:11 ET by zeestephenSo, China, you want to play with the big boys and big girls?
Suck it up, then.
Leaders are continuously challenged and criticized.
If it's OK to be a one party, expansionist, authoritarian police state, then publicly defend those policies.
If your country can't roll with the punches, maybe there really is something wrong with it?
Torch carrying...
April 7, 2008 - 12:12 ET by SyriusPresterJ,
My thoughts were about the Nazis and the '36 Olympics, also.
"Hardly any commentator stops to mention that this silly torch ceremony
has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks, and was really invented to
be a magnificent shot in Leni Riefenstahl’s movie," Beard writes on her
blog A Don's Life. "This is one of Hitler’s most pervasive legacies." from this link...
http://timesonline.t...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
The Reality of China
April 7, 2008 - 13:06 ET by pickerseniorChina is repressive and excercises control over its population, including provinces of Tibet, etc.
It should be a requirement for all protestors (Tibet and otherwise) to spend a few days in China to see how they keep order and why, and how they are elevating their population out of last century's poverty and starvation. I'm sorry, but this is commendable, especially to those that witnessed what was going on there mid 20th century and before.
Just think of it this way - If China was governed like we are the in the West are with our freedom to dissent, and freedom to misbehave, riot, and whatever feels good, there would be no China. We would be worse off as a result.
Olympics are for the athletes, not for self centered, uninformed, ignorant idiots who seem to always try to ruin things for everyone else.
"If liberals didn't live it, it doesn't exist."
I'm not sure what you're saying here...
April 7, 2008 - 15:15 ET by sarcasmoYou seem to imply in your third paragraph that a less authoritarian Chinese government would somehow cause the Chinese people to want to hurt America. I could not disagree more, if that's what you mean. I do think they might buy less of our debt under such circumstances, but I'm of the minority-opinion that fiscally-responsible outcome would help both us and them toward smaller governments and more individual freedom. Hell, under such circumstances, they'd probably buy more of our physical products instead.
And by the way, I've lived in the USA all my life, but I've never once felt free to riot. In fact, with the proliferation of rules over my lifetime, I feel less free to do all sorts of things, including but not limited-to "misbehave." But at least I like your conclusion -- the Olympics should once again be about the athletes. Politics and politicians and activists need to stay the hell off the field, even -- or maybe especially -- if their protests are entirely legitimate.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
What I'm trying to say
April 7, 2008 - 15:39 ET by pickerseniorAll I'm trying to say in the 3rd paragraph (albeit maybe confusing), having been there (mainland China) briefly a few times spanning 1993 to 2006, I see a strong central govenment controlling a large portion of the world's population. They are successfully uplifting their standard of living, and it appears to be carefully planned. I was also there in 1955, and saw them selling garbage from our aircraft carrier in Wanchai (Hong Kong.) You could smell it 150 miles away.
If in 1955, they adopted our form of govenment, there would be total chaos today, and China would be out of control like Iraq and most of the Muslim world is. That's why I believe that there would be no China as there is today.
I don't believe in Communism, but I see what China has done in my lifetime (which has nothing to do with Communism), but this couldn't have been done under our form of govenment, which we live free under.
There are too many of them, in my opinion, to do it any other way.
"If a liberal doesn't live it, it doesn't exist."
The ancients would stop a
April 7, 2008 - 13:42 ET by motherbeltThe ancients would stop a war to hold the Olympics. It's sad, for athletes and for mankind, that politics has become so-all-important that we can't focus on anything else without its taint.
Well said. Everything is now a venue for political activism.
Frankly, it has become so political, that I think the games have completely lost their usefulness as a venue for nonpolitical competition, and the world could do very well without them.
And now, today's The Shrub
April 7, 2008 - 10:41 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's The Shrub Report®:
I am sure Pernod Ricard, the French company that just bought Vin & Sprit, the maker of Absolut, last week, are thrilled with all the positive publicity the "Absolut World" ads have generated.
Now, this is an example of an "operational relationship".
Sad day in rock and roll history: 10 years ago today Wendy O. Williams committed suicide, and drum wizard Cozy Powell died in an automobile accident.
Desecration of the flag is illegal!
The University of Pennsylvania will not cover expenses for speeches by political figures (like McCain), but have no problem covering expenses of Jew-haters?
History gets re-written. Again.
A Religion of Peace Update. And a despicable retaliation.
And, finally, President Bush issues a pardon…
→ Excellent Shrubbo
April 7, 2008 - 11:11 ET by Cool Arrow"Cannonball Run" is the movie by which I rate the badness of any movie.
Absolut must have thought it's anti-American ad was small potatoes.
♣ a seal
The two chicks from the
April 7, 2008 - 11:15 ET by balboaThe two chicks from the original, in the Lamborghini, were very important to my childhood.
→ OK, bal
April 7, 2008 - 11:19 ET by Cool ArrowBut they had a hard time carrying the movie.
But then again, Jessica Alba did deliver what I consider to be an Oscar performance in "Deep Blue"
♣ a seal
Didn't she? Wasn't she
April 7, 2008 - 11:30 ET by balboaDidn't she? Wasn't she specTACular in that? The fact that she wasn't nominated, for her gut-wrenching performance as Sue Richards in the epic masterpiece "Fantastic Four" still boggles my mind.
→ A travesty Bal
April 7, 2008 - 11:39 ET by Cool ArrowSeems only true film afficionados appreciate her impeccable delivery of a stellar performance.
The Academy Awards are just too political.
Even in the scenes where she was invisible were provocative. It really made me think.
♣ a seal
Alba showed the Invisible
April 7, 2008 - 11:41 ET by balboaAlba showed the Invisible Woman in all of us.
Fireball
April 7, 2008 - 11:37 ET by iveseenitallThere's a new "Cannonball" type race here in Orlando, Florida. I hear there's another movie in the works.www.fireballrun.com
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Gumball Rally?
April 7, 2008 - 12:05 ET by Roger the ShrubberGumball Rally?
Fireball Run
April 7, 2008 - 12:21 ET by iveseenitallNo, it's The Fireball Run across the U.S. It also helps to find missing children--great cause.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
U of P probably won't pay
April 7, 2008 - 13:36 ET by TruthMongerU of P probably won't pay for Muslim-haters like you either, rog
I've always felt that all people of hate should be supported equally...
Yawn.
April 7, 2008 - 14:06 ET by Roger the ShrubberDo you have a point for once?
Didn't think so.
I thought I showed balance in my report today. Apparently you are too dense to understand.
Sir Shrubber, as I
April 7, 2008 - 14:12 ET by Jack BauerSir Shrubber, as I understand it, you don't hate the Muslims, you just hate the suicide mission!
a point - does your bigoted
April 7, 2008 - 14:16 ET by TruthMongera point - does your bigoted head count:)? very pointy...
first we round up the mooslums, right?
put them into ghetto's, right?
put them on trains, right?
send them to camps, right?
build some furnaces, right?
thenwhat?
Once again, I ask: do you
April 7, 2008 - 14:36 ET by Roger the ShrubberOnce again, I ask: do you have a point?
Please let us all know when you do.
In the meantime, get back on your medication, will ya, Tumbles?
For crying out loud. . .
April 7, 2008 - 14:51 ET by tracheostomyTM, are you trying to be mysteriously sarcastic and/or ironic ("sigh" again). . .somehow?
Listen. Regardless of your ultra koo-koo position(s). . .there are very-very few here who have any idea just what kind of hill you chose to die on.
Yet, Joe-Browser or Joe-N00B who just started an account here will have no clue whatsoever. . .and simply write you off as someone who really doesn't want to be understood.
Or is that what you really want?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
just because you two don't
April 7, 2008 - 15:53 ET by TruthMongerjust because you two don't get it, please don't ruin it for the rest of us:)
koo koo - that's a good one - your spelling is much improved
I believe the only people
April 7, 2008 - 17:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberI believe the only people who "get it" are the voices in your head.
Seriously, take your meds.
I think it's an appropriate
April 7, 2008 - 10:43 ET by mbs6I think it's an appropriate protest and yes, the Games being in China is a mark against the IOC and the Games. China deserves to be embarrased on the global stage.
Protesting China?
April 7, 2008 - 10:54 ET by iveseenitallWhy are they protesting China anyway? China is living proof that communism works for "all" the people. "Yes We Can"- wasn't that Mao's slogan too? And that guy in Cuba...I think he said something similar in 50's...gave his "people" great universal healthcare...
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I recently saw a FREE TIBET
April 7, 2008 - 10:48 ET by mattmI recently saw a FREE TIBET bumper-sticker on a car that also had a "Hillary" bumper-sticker.
China must be guilty of serious wrongs if their own people in the West disapprove of them.
I'm for freeing Tibet from the Chinese, and Taiwan, too. I'm also for freeing the USA and the West from Lib-ism.
BTW, would China be so confident if the Clintons hadn't given them the weapons technology they have? Thanks Billy
Nice oxymoron there with
April 7, 2008 - 11:00 ET by taterNice oxymoron there with the those bumper stickers.
By justice a king gives stability to a land; but he who imposes heavy taxes ruins it. -Proverbs 29:4
Could the Olympics
April 7, 2008 - 10:49 ET by Hero SquadCould the Olympics Committee not foresee that a country like China might spark a reaction like this? (Not to mention the pollution fiasco in all of this... 16 of the 20 most polluted cities in the world?)
I mean, what horrific problems characterized the cities rejected by the committee during that made Beijing a more attractive option?
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
→ Who's willing tibet?
April 7, 2008 - 11:04 ET by Cool ArrowSoon as Hillary's in the oral office, the Chinese take over Taiwan.
♣ a seal
Mia Farrow
April 7, 2008 - 11:24 ET by whatajoyMia Farrow, whose own website by the same name, is totally against the Olympics being held in China and I'm sure she is the one putting out the torch over there because she is so full of rage and horror that I'm surprised she doesn't implode when she is speaking about it on talk shows. It's like, Mia, chill. Sheesh. Yeah, genocide is wrong and it should be stopped, but stopping the Olympics isn't going to solve anything. Genocide, unfortunately, happens all over the world. Like in nature, only the fittest survive. Stopping the Olympics in China will NOT stop the genocide or other laws that are being broken over there. So leave the torch alone, Mia Farrow.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Take it easy! We're not making a western here.
~ Uncle Junior (The Sopranos)
→ Whatajoy
April 7, 2008 - 11:29 ET by Cool ArrowRight on. It's not as though the Chinese raped and married her adopted daughter.
Imagine how forever vocal she'd be if someone did that.
Ohhh wait . . . never mind.
♣ a seal
So...Mia Farrow should shut
April 7, 2008 - 11:34 ET by balboaSo...Mia Farrow should shut up about China and protest Woody Allen instead? Wha..?
→ No bal
April 7, 2008 - 11:43 ET by Cool ArrowYou're right. She can protest the injustice in Tibet all she wants. I'm all for a free Tibet.
I just wish she had busted a cap in Woody Allen's butt is all.
No sympathy for pedophiles.
♣ a seal
This is interesting
April 7, 2008 - 11:33 ET by Prester JohnIraq's Sadr to disband Mehdi Army if clerics order
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr offered on Monday to disband his militia if the highest Shi'ite religious authority demand it, a shock announcement at a time when the group is the focus of an upsurge in fighting.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080407/wl_nm/iraq_dc
A good overview
April 7, 2008 - 12:06 ET by sarcasmoOf the latest Scientology internet-speech-flap.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
The time to protest the China based olympic games..
April 7, 2008 - 12:18 ET by Gary HallThe time to protest the China based olympic games was duing the years leading up the IOC awarding the games to China. The official award from the IOC to award the games to Beijing was in July of 2001, however the road to that point was long and laborous.
Personally, I recall the angst towards the end of the Clinton administration over the lack of protest (it existed on the street - but the media had little interest in challenging Clinton) in awarding the games to China. The towel had already been thrown in by July of 2001. In a quick search, I was unable to find much here, but there was growing opposition to China's bid to host the summer olymic games as far back as 1993.
During the middle of the Clinton term, official White House concerns over China's human rights violations made the trip from the front seat, to the back seat, and were finally put in the trunk. The Clinton administration had successfully de-linked the Chinese human rights issues from trade and relations (awarding China most favored trading status), military secrets and turned a blind eye to the international calls to oppose the IOC awarding the games to China. I suspect Pres. Bush also had a chance to protest the games prior to the award, during his first few months in office - but I suspect the die was already cast.
My view - the time to protest the games being in China was prior to the award to Beijing - now that the games are set, it is about sportsmanship and setting aside differences for a moment in time. No country or leader should be a no-show.
Al-Gorezeera: That's Communtainment!
April 7, 2008 - 12:18 ET by Jack BauerAnyone up to speed on what happened to Alfred Gore's other attempt at mass brainwashing?
Remember the huge fanfare a mere 3 years ago over him starting up his own TV Channel? All that free publicity BIG MEDIA gave him?
I think it's called Al-Gorezeera, or something. All Gore, all the time.
Press had orgasms over it. Again from memory they even compared it favorably with that exciting new radio station Airhead America. They're doing gang-busters, I think.
Clearly they have both been incredibly successful. Who says quasi-socialists and proto-totalitarians can't give the people what they want.
That's COMMUTAINMENT!!
Bob Barr and other things
April 7, 2008 - 12:22 ET by ricklailBob Barr claims that he is going to run for President on the Libertarian party. The LP platform calls for abortion on demand no matter how far along and the end of any laws to stop homosexual marriage. Most of you know their stand on drugs. Would Barr accept this?
******
I was flipping through the channels last night and come across TBN's telethon. Some "preacher" was on there stating that 1000 Muslims a day were accepting Christ. I don't see how that is happening. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Was this just bragging with no facts?
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
I am copy/pasting my posts
April 7, 2008 - 12:30 ET by drillanwrI am copy/pasting my posts regarding the Olympics from another blog, so I hope it lines up okay, and I hope in scanning it I haven't missed "editing out" any overly-colorful language I might have used there:
***
It has been the policy of the “Olympics” to put aside the politics and the ideologies of “governments” in favor of the pure concept of personal and team competition and excellence.
However, as it has been said: “No man is an island” … and no team without a country, and with that, THAT country’s ideals.
It appears that after decades of this practice of denial, the Olympics organization and governing members are about to lift their heads to find their eyes, ears and mouths filled with sand …
I don’t know how [bad] it has gotten over there for the Tibetans, as the complacent world MSM has chosen to turn this story out in very small doses that dissolve quickly on the world community’s tongue. I have read hundreds have died at the hands of the Chinese “authorities” in order to squelch this uprising and protest for human rights …
But I DO know that if it becomes even the slightest bit more ugly the United States should … and MUST … pull our Olympic team out of the Games.
I tend to equate this 21st Century Pollyanna practice/attitude of the Olympic committee to holding the Games in Nazi Germany as Hitler prepared to trample, murder, and exterminate his way through Europe, eventually costing millions upon millions of lives. I cannot look at that grainy B/W footage of those Games without feeling my stomach rise up into my throat and mouth, and think what a horrific and senseless “event” was to take place while evil sucked the very blood from “the glory of the Olympic Games on their soil”.
The “sportsmen” do NOT live in a bubble. They might think they do, but no. As for “competition without borders”, no such thing … not anymore. The moment the Olympic team from the USA would step into that stadium for opening ceremonies in China there WILL be boos and hisses … whether or not those American athletes supported or didn’t support the war, or our President and government. And at the same time Iran’s and Syria’s teams would be applauded heartily … “borders”.
The Games lost their nuance of neutrality a long time ago … and it carried through the Cold War with the USSR and Soviet block countries `roiding and drugging up their team members to little or no squelching by the Olympic governing body. And how about the “skewing” of scores on “judged” competition, not to mention putting additional time on the clock in order to overturn the winning score and hand a basketball game to the USSR that the USA had CLEARLY won in the proper time. Certain countries being allowed for decades to use “professional” athletes, while a country such as the USA wasn’t even permitted to compensate the out-of-pocket expenses/costs for training their private athletes.
The Olympic community and board, and the ‘nuancing’ world, can believe all they want that the Olympics set aside politics and ideology … but I have a real hard time (as a young teen) watching the 1972 Summer Games in Munich, falling madly in love with a handsome Jewish-American swimmer for days … and then witnessing members of the Israeli team being slaughtered. ...
Just as Mark Spitz (a Jew) won 7 Olympic gold medals and set a new world record in each of the 7 events Palestinian terrorists massacred 11 Israeli athletes who were at the games to compete “without borders” and peacefully.
And I know these are two “American” accomplishments (and there are those from other countries that have overcome great deficits in life to prevail on the medal stand)…
No … There is NO neutrality, no “competition without borders” in the Olympics … right down to deciding who will host the next games. It is, and has been for quite some time, an illusion. I’m afraid what you are witnessing now is the lipstick OFF the pig …
The “ancient spirit” of the Olympics tries hard to survive these modern times … but I fear the gods of Mt. Olympus are outnumbered …
Welcome to the REAL world, Olympics.
***
When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks
LOL Drill
April 7, 2008 - 21:30 ET by acumenI hadn't noticed your use of any "overly-colorful language" over at Pat's site. Pointed, explicit, truthful, hardhitting...not getting colorful LOL. But then what the bleep do I know.
I'm conflicted. I like the
April 7, 2008 - 12:36 ET by FranksamI'm conflicted. I like the 'Can't we just pretend to get along every four years?' thing, but the exploitation of Olympics by the host countries lays the games open to political exploitation by the opposition. So far as I know, nobody carrying the torch has been crushed by tanks. I'm leaning toward the protestors on that basis, by about 51-49%.
'No Mitt' campaign targets VP slot
April 7, 2008 - 12:40 ET by vrwc13http://www.worldnetd...
"Sen. John McCain needs to choose someone other than former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney as his vice-presidential candidate, says a coalition that has accused Romney of violating the state constitution and mocking the principle of limited government while governor."
"Among the signatures on the ad is Paul Weyrich, founder of the Heritage Foundation and a supporter of Romney as little as a few months ago."
" "Picking a running mate as dishonest, cynical and with so little regard for innocent human life, natural marriage and the binding force of constitutions as Mitt Romney would be a deal breaker for many, many voters," said John Haskins, who signed as an individual but works with the ParentsRightsCoalition and UndergroundJournal.net.
"Mitt Romney is the Barak Obama of the Republican Party," he said. "
"The unvarnished facts of Mitt Romney's record as governor of Massachusetts make him utterly unacceptable as a vice presidential running mate," the ad continues. "A very large (and growing) number of social conservative voters who have become aware of that record are likely to abandon a GOP presidential ticket on which Romney's name appears."
...something to consider NBr's...
v
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
There has to be more to the
April 7, 2008 - 14:56 ET by Gary P JacksonThere has to be more to the agenda. Romney would make a fine VP. He was the only true conservative left in the nomination process. And unlike many, Romney could step in to the oval at a moments notice. Mitt's not the only choice, but he's one of the stronger ones.
There has to be more to the agenda. Romney would make a fine VP.
April 7, 2008 - 15:49 ET by vrwc13...Agenda, I don't know. did you read the article? A number of people signed the ad, take a look.
"Senator McCain, despite the proclamations of your surrogates we hope you will act to earn the support of the conservative grassroots in November, unite the Republican Party, and lead it to victory.
However, Willard Mitt Romney is a deal breaker."
The signers included several dozen leaders, although their organizations were listed for identification purposes only:
Matt Barber, policy director for Concerned Women for America
Ted Baehr, author of Culture Wise Family
Michael W. Calsetta of Conservative Democratic Alliance
Brian Camenker, president of MassResistance
Janet Folger, president of Faith2Action
Gary Glenn, president of American Family Association of Michigan
Thomas Glessner, J.D., president of National Institute of Family and Life Advocates
James Hartline, publisher of California Christian News
John Haskins, of Parents' Rights Coalition and UndergroundJournal.net
Linda Harvey, president of Mission America
Michael Heath, executive director of Christian Civic League of Maine
Gregg Jackson., author and radio host
Judge Ned Kirby, former assistant minority leader, Massachusetts State Senate
Peter LaBarbera, president of Republicans for Family Values
Jan M. LaRue, Esq., of Jan LaRue Consulting
Dr. Scott Lively, Esq., president of Defend the Family International
William J. Murray, chairman of Religious Freedom Coalition
Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue
John O’Gorman, board member of Massachusetts Citizens for Life
Sandy Rios, president of Culture Campaign
John Russo, president of Marriage and Family Massachusetts
Stephen Strang, chief executive officer of Strang Communications
Karen Testerman, executive director of Cornerstone Policy Research
Randy Thomasson, president of Campaign for Children and Families
Paul Weyrich, president of Free Congress Foundation
Philip Zodhiates, president of Response Unlimited, Inc.
v
Yes. I read the whole
April 7, 2008 - 16:35 ET by Gary P JacksonYes. I read the whole thing, last night. I'll be the first to admit I'm not an insider, just opinionated. But I don't know who any of these people are. To me, it might as well be random names out of the phone book.
I'll stick by my Romney comments. The guy is more than qualified for VP. He would make an excellent choice. I like the way Ann Coulter put it, in contrast to McCain, a while back. McCain, is a liberal from a conservative state, and yet, has around a 67 percent conservative rating. That's as good as he is ever gonna be! On the other hand, Romney was Governor of a very liberal state, and yet was able to mostly govern as a conservative. Like Reagan, his liberal leanings, are mostly because of the state he governed, and are as bad as they will ever be. It was a good case against McCain, and a good case for Romney during the primary process, and stands as a good case for VP.
In other words, due to the very liberal make up of the state, and it's legislature, many very liberal laws were gonna happen, no matter who sat in the State House. And past that, the petition distorts a lot of the facts, like the $50 abortions. Just untrue. Not that they occur, but that Romney created that. There's other falsehoods too.
If someone has a problem with Romney, they should state facts, and not make stuff up as they go. All they are doing is making themselves irrelevant. And I'm sure they will have no effect on McCain's VP selection. Although, McCain might just pick Romney to spite them! He's been good at that over the years.
Comprehensive Republican Corruption
April 7, 2008 - 12:56 ET by LeonEveryone knows that Republicans are much more likely to get embroiled in filthy scandals.
Finally someone put together a comprehensive list of these crooks. The number of pedophiles is terrifying! Yuck.
So next time someone claims that Republicans are the party of morality, simply point them in the right direction.
272 Republicans charged with crimes, 60 of them are pedophiles!
Great work GOP. Fostering a culture of corruption for years.
LINK
Leon,
April 7, 2008 - 13:11 ET by AgnosticNice list. Unfortunately that will just prompt someone to do the same against the Democrats. The list will be about the same and I will be even further depressed by the fact that these "people" not only still get voted into office but once they are they are not held to the same standards as the average person. Their standards should be higher not lower and yet year after year we seem to get a worse group to choose from. The media definitely need to give up on the moniker of "Watchdog".
Agnostic, You're
April 7, 2008 - 13:34 ET by LeonAgnostic,
You're wrong. The dems don't have a list like this b/c it doesn't exist. Feel free to counter if you have the time.
I challenge anyone to come even close to the depth of this list with Dems.
Won't happen. This is a distinctly GOP phenomenon. Especially the pedophilia.
Very misleading Leon, even for you
April 7, 2008 - 13:53 ET by general companyThis isnt a list of elected officials Leon, just people. You honestly believe no one could come up with simular nonesense about Dems citizens. Their are probably more then this listed in Cali news papers today
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Leon, this trusted site
April 7, 2008 - 14:43 ET by KarmaLeon, this trusted site disputes your claim that the GOP is the party of corruption. Even balboa seems to agree.
LINK
I do what now?
April 7, 2008 - 16:17 ET by balboaI do what now?
Karma, I posted my
April 7, 2008 - 17:29 ET by LeonKarma,
I posted my evidence. I don't see anything on your link but generalizations based no speculation.
Any names? that's a good start.
I can predict how this will
April 7, 2008 - 18:19 ET by BDI can predict how this will go. I will list a large number of miscreants of the democrat persuasion, then leon will counter with "Your just a propagandist" charge when his logic is defeated with facts.
Then he will cease responding to the comments as even more are heaped upon the altar of his foolish post.
Leon, do you really wish to bring this down upon yourself now?
Leon,
April 8, 2008 - 07:59 ET by Agnostic"You're wrong. The dems don't have a list like this b/c it doesn't exist. Feel free to counter if you have the time."
No Leon, you misunderstood. I said this web site will only prompt someone to create the Democrat equivilant not that one already existed.
"This is a distinctly GOP phenomenon." - I must apologize because I always assumed you to be less party oriented and more of a liberal idealist but shows what you can tell from someone's posts. If you believe this you are way too far in the tank of the Democrat party.
Truth be told to counter this list I would start with a web site that chronicles the exploits of the Clintons and thier business partners and we would have a substantial list. However, my pov is that the level of corruption and deranged behavior of our elected officials is a complete embarassment. They are on a whole not worthy of every citing any word written by the founding fathers of this country let alone represent this nation and ideas put forth by those same documents. That goes for Republicans, Democrats and Independants. That is not to say that there aren't a lot of people in Washington and state governments doing good but they continually turn a blind eye to the type of behavior you linked to and how does that serve this nation.
Not to pick on the Democrats but since you listed Republicans and as an example look how they handled Sentor Pelosi's conflicts of interest with Starkist and her husband, Senator Boxer's land grab and Congressman Jefferson personal trip during Katrina and his cold cash bribe money. These are all people that should have been either removed from levels of importance within the Democratic Party or removed from office completely yet they remain with the full support of the government.
Either the other elected officials say nothing because they are incompetent or because so many are guilty of similar or worse. Either way the American people need to learn who and what they are voting for and the "watchdog media" need to pull their collective arses out of their poor attempts at entertaining or they will be relegated to a single Pravda like network with the rest of the "little people".
Yes, I am feeling cynical today.
The Republican party is a
April 7, 2008 - 13:25 ET by Hero SquadThe Republican party is a party of morality. It does not stand for some acceptance of criminal activity or pedophilia, as you have intoned. Those who commit crimes should be dealt with appropriately, be they Democrat or Republican.
To suggest that Democrats do not have their own set of criminals and pedophiles is a joke.
In neither case is it a reflection upon the morality of the party itself. It's a reflection of individuals who have used power to exploit their own moral shortcomings.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
HS, Of course the Dems
April 7, 2008 - 13:36 ET by LeonHS,
Of course the Dems have crooks on their side.
Just not even close to as many.
When a list gets this deep and wide reaching, it is CERTAINLY a reflection on the party.
This is much more significant and terrifying than it being just a few bad apples.
It must be the excitement of gettin' caught.
April 7, 2008 - 14:31 ET by SyriusLeon,
The leaders of the morality movement always seem to get caught up in their trials & tribulations. Their own "Fair & Balanced" News Channel can't help themselves in showing the demise of morals by showing clips ad nauseum of scantily clad girls gone wild over & over- "By God, look at those girls, those filthy, naughty, young girls! The outrage! Hey, let's show that clip again!"
And when they get sick of that they pull out the old clips of Michael J., or Brittney, or Paris, or Spitzer's little cutie pie, or Bill's Monica, or etc. They can't help themselves. They are sinners and they need to be spanked every now and then and told they should stop before they get caught...but they can't help themselves.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy, Too true. It's an
April 7, 2008 - 17:26 ET by LeonSy,
Too true. It's an amazing phenomenon.
I find it interesting that their first repsonse when confronted with this evidence is to immediately try to find someone from the other side who did the same thing so they can cry, "well he did it too"
You'd think their first response would be to condemn things like pedophilia, not try to excuse it by finding other examples from the other side of the aisle.
Makes you wonder.
I would think, if someone
April 7, 2008 - 17:41 ET by Roger the ShrubberI would think, if someone was honestly interested in debate about government corruption, one might try to get to know the history of the party you are propping up as paragons of virtue before doing so.
Unless you are a complete moron (loaded question), you would have to honestly admit the Democrat(ic)s have had their own woefully-large number of scandals and crimes. Does it matter if its 50-50 or 60-40? No.
But, alas, this is just another Leon trolling expedition. A rather weak one, at that.
Leon's Democrats real saying
April 7, 2008 - 23:01 ET by PawpawN"State Senator W. H. Lindsey, a Democrat who was not among those subpoenaed. "Some folks don't like to work." The real Dim slogan and why they love giveaways in jobs, welfare, etc!
Leon, everyone know's
April 7, 2008 - 16:53 ET by BlazerLeon, everyone know's Republican's are more likely to get embroiled in scandal's because they dont' have the media on thier side like the Democrat's do. I'm not excusing thier behavoir, I just think the media and liberal's concerning conservatives, have mastered the art of outrage and concerning liberal's, the art of ommision.
But let's not forget Leon, your esteemed Democrat party was the first one to put a sex offender and known rapist in The Whitehouse.
That link you posted was laughable, since most of the people on it were private citizen's not politician's. I would post a similiar link with liberal's on it, but unfortunately not many people on here have enough time to sift through The U.S. Department Of Justice crime statistic's, so these will just have to do for now.
criminal's:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1743276/posts
Traitor's:
http://www.lisa-richards.com/id15.html
http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799
Racist's:
http://www.blackconservative.net/RL.html
"~Ex-Klansman, Senator Robert Byrd used the term “white
nigger” on Tony Snow’s Fox News Sunday.
~During a speech, Democrat Lieutenant Governor, Cruz
Bustamante, used the N–Word.
~Senator Ernest Hollings (D-S.C.) told reporters on
December 14, 1993, that he attended international summits
alongside “these potentates from down in Africa.” He
continued, saying, “rather than eating each other, they’d just
come up and get a good square meal in Geneva.” Senator
Hollings also held out for keeping the confederate flag flying
over the state capitol. In 1960 Hollings “warned today that
South Carolina would not permit ‘explosive’ manifestations
in connection with Negro demands for lunch-counter
services.”
~New York City Councilman Charles Barron told a crowd at
the Millions for Reparations March in Washington D.C. that
he wished his goal of seeing blacks compensated for the
enslavement of their ancestors was closer to fruition. He
said, “I want to go up to the closest white person and say:’
You can’t understand this, it’s a black thing’ and then slap
him, just for my mental health.”
~Donna Brazil, Al Gore’s presidential campaign manager,
called Republicans “white boys” who aim to “exclude,
denigrate and leave behind.” And, when the Washington
Post asked Brazil what she would do for the Gore campaign,
her response was that she was there to ensure that the
campaign and election did not fall into the hands of “white
boys.”
~ Senator Dodd (D-CT) made these remarks during a
tribute to Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV): “It has often been
said that the man and the moment come together. I do not
think it is an exaggeration at all to say to my friend from West
Virginia that he would have been a great Senator at any
moment. Some were right for the time. Robert C. Byrd, in my
view, would have been right at any time.” Tom Daschle (D-
SD) defended Dodd’s comments, which sounded an awful
lot like the comments made by Senator Lott.
~Jesse Jackson, who misses few opportunities to expose
racism in others, referred to New York City as “hymietown.”
~Jackson’s buddy, Al Sharpton, was a central figure in
fanning the 1991 Crown Heights race riot, where a mob
killed an innocent Jewish man. In addition to that, Sharpton
also initiated a 1995 protest of a Jewish owned store in
Harlem where protesters used several anti-Semitic slurs.
~Bill Clinton was among three state officials in Arkansas, in
1989, who were sued under the federal Voting Rights Act of
1965. “Plaintiffs offered plenty of proof of monolithic voting
along racial lines, intimidation of black voters and
candidates, and other official acts that made voting harder
for blacks,” according to the Arkansas Gazette, “The
evidence at the trial was indeed overwhelming that the
Voting Rights Act had been violated.”
During Clinton’s 12-year tenure as Governor, he never
approved a state civil rights law.
Bill Clinton admired Oral Eugene Faubus, whose claim to
fame was trying to bar nine black children from attending
Little Rock’s Central High School in 1957. Clinton was also
a friend of William Fulbright, a segregationist who signed the
Southern Manifesto, which denounced the Supreme Court’s
Brown vs. Board of Education decision. Clinton referred to
Fulbright as “my mentor, a visionary, a humanitarian.”
~Democratic National Chairman, Terry McAuliffe used the
term “colored people” in a speech soon after becoming
DNC chief. And I thought liberals were progressive.
~San Francisco Democrat, Mayor Willie Brown, after
winning the 1995 election said, “The white boys got taken
fair and square.”
~Apparently Spike Lee has a problem with interracial
couples as he has stated that, “I give interracial couples a
look. Daggers. They get uncomfortable when they see me
on the street.”
~Dan Rather, having avoided covering a story on
Condaleeza Rice, eventually did the story, saying that CBS
“got the Buckwheats,” suggesting that CBS was afraid not to
cover the story because the other networks were covering it.
~Andrew Cuomo found himself in an uncomfortable position
when he said that voting for his rival for the New York
Democratic gubernatorial nomination, Carl McCall, who is
black, would make for a “racial contract” between black and
Hispanic Democrats “and that can’t happen.” Cuomo
eventually dropped out of the race for governor.
~Former Democratic Minority Leader in the U.S. House of
Representatives, Dick Gephardt, gave several speeches to
a now defunct white supremacist organization called the
Metro South Citizens Council. Gephardt also asked the
group for an endorsement of his candidacy.
~Regarding Clarence Thomas and Affirmative Action,
Maureen Dowd insults Thomas’ accomplishments by writing,
“It makes him crazy that people think he is where he is
because of his race, but he is where he is because of his
race.” Is Dowd saying that without Affirmative Action, blacks
are incapable of accomplishing anything great or is she
saying that all whites are racist and therefore would never
have given Thomas a chance?
It may be one thing for a conservative to point all of these
things out, but there are some black Democrats who have
accused their own party of racism. Says Baltimore
Democrat, Tony E. Fulton, “They really don’t care about us.
We are used every four years, then thrown back.” Black
conservatives have been pointing that out for years.
Dereck E. Davis, of Prince George, Maryland, is chairman
of the Economic Matters Committee. According to Davis,
“The state party is racist to the core.” And Nathaniel T.
Oaks, a Baltimore Democratic Delegate, remarked, “I think
the Democratic Party takes black people for granted.”
The above are all fairly recent incidents, but racism in the
Democratic Party stems back to prior to the Civil War. The
Republican party was created in response to a growing
number of Americans who were against slavery. Thomas
Jefferson, and others with the same philosophy, that slavery
was a “positive good,” founded the Democratic Party.
Following the war, Democrats continued to fight against
equal rights for blacks, eventually defeating Reconstruction
and implementing Jim Crow. During the 1920s,
Republicans repeatedly called for anti-lynching legislature
that was opposed by Democrats.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt did his part to continue the trend
of Democratic racism. In addition to the Japanese
Internment situation, Roosevelt is also responsible for
appointing two notorious segregationists to the U.S.
Supreme Court - Jimmy Byrnes and Hugo Black.
Hugo Black, a former Democrat Senator from Alabama had
a long history of hate group activism. He was a member of
the Ku Klux Klan and became famous for defending
Klansmen under prosecution for racial murders.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 got more support from
Republicans than from Democrats. Republican Senate
Minority Leader, Everett Dirksen, pushed the bill through the
Senate despite 21 no-votes from Democrats, including Al
Gore’s father and, of course, Robert Byrd. Only 4
Republicans opposed the bill.
Democratic opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 split
the party in two. Forty percent of the House Democrats
voted against the Civil Rights Act. At the same time, 80% of
Republicans supported it. Republican support in the Senate
was even higher.
So, the next time a liberal brags about their record on race
issues, you know what to say."
http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/22-ways-to-be-a-good-democrat/
22 WAYS TO BE A GOOD DEMOCRAT
October 20, 2007 — budsimmons
22 WAYS TO BE A GOOD DEMOCRAT
1. You have to be against capital punishment, but
support abortion on demand.
2. You have to believe that businesses create
oppression and governments create prosperity.
3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of
law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S.
Nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and
North Korean communists.
4. You have to believe that there was no art before
Federal funding.
5. You have to believe that global temperatures are
less affected by cyclical documented changes in the
earth’s climate and more affected by Soccer moms
driving SUV’s.
6. You have to believe that gender roles are
artificial but being homosexual is natural.
7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread
by a lack of Federal Funding.
8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can’t
teach fourth graders how to read is somehow qualified
to teach those same kids about sex.
9. You have to believe that hunters don’t care about
nature, but loony activists who have never been
outside of San Francisco do.
10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more
important than actually doing something to earn it..
11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25
million of his own money to make ‘The Passion of the
Christ’ for financial gain only.
12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it
supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the
ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the
Constitution.
13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but
ATM fees are too high.
14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and
Gloria Steinem are more Important to American history
than Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, and A.G..Bell.
15. You have to believe that standardized tests are
racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.
16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal
and is a very nice person.
17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism
hasn’t worked anywhere it’s been tried is because the
right people haven’t been in charge.
18. You have to believe conservatives telling the
truth belong in jail, but a liar and a sex offender
belonged in the White House.
19. You have to believe that homosexual parades
displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should
be constitutionally protected, and Manger scenes at
Christmas should be illegal.
20. You have to believe that illegal Democrat Party
funding by the Chinese Government is somehow in the
best interest to the United States.
21. You have to believe that this message is a part of
a vast, right Wing Conspiracy.
22. You have to believe that it’s okay to give Federal
workers the day off on Christmas Day, but it’s not
okay to say ‘Merry Christmas
here are some other prominent liberal's (socialist-progressives)
Mao Zedong ,Fidel Castro Ernesto Che Guevara, Pathet Lao, Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il, Ho Chi Minh, Enver Hoxha, Todor Zhivkov, Gustáv Husák, Mengistu Haile Mariam, Erich Honecker, Egon Krenz, Mátyás Rákosi, Pol Pot, Khorloogiin Choibalsan, Nicolae Ceauşescu, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov, Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin, Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev, Robert Mugabe, Hugo Chavez.
So Leon Trotsky, I think I'll just stock up on popcorn and get ready for the "delicious saga" between now and the Democrat Convention that will be the slow, twisting, groaning, hulk of wreckage, speeding to dark fathomless depth's that will be the Democrat party sinking and imploding. : )
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Blazer, 1) The post
April 7, 2008 - 17:20 ET by LeonBlazer,
1) The post wasnt' about racism, it's about criminal behavior. Thanks for wasting everyone's time though.
2) Bill Clinton is not a rapsit or a sex offender, unless of course I missed that trial, which I doubt.
3) The fact of the matter is that there is no Dem list b/c they don't commit (and get convicted) of these crimes with the frequency or regularity of the Republicans.
Bill Clinton was not a sex
April 7, 2008 - 17:24 ET by NL207Bill Clinton was not a sex offender? You missed the trial? Maybe