For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: U.S. death toll in Iraq reaches 4,000.
What does this milestone mean to you? Are round numbers just that -- round numbers?
Given that media coverage of the war has rapidly declined since the success of the surge, is it a metaphysical certitude press outlets will be all over this announcement for the next several days?
Is it also a metaphysical certitude that once they get off this issue, and things continue to improve in Iraq, media coverage will go back to near nil until we get to another casualty milestone they feel important?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
And now, today's quickie
March 24, 2008 - 09:21 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's quickie The Shrub Report®:
Google celebrates Easter in its usual way…
A special teamster thug "Culture of Corruption" update.
Today's Saddam was not a threat to the world Update.
A special Easter Edition of When Liberals Attack!
Today's Religion of Peace Update.
AP has some Fun With Headlines.
Gee, I wonder...
March 24, 2008 - 09:45 ET by sarcasmoHow Saddam could have possibly gotten his hands on such horrible weapons?
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Let Them Die Compassion
March 24, 2008 - 09:52 ET by TinianIt's nice to see you don't approve of other countries producing their own vaccines.
Reading is fundamental
March 24, 2008 - 09:58 ET by sarcasmoMy link totally refutes you, as anyone who clicks it will find.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
but
March 24, 2008 - 14:24 ET by UndercoverConservative"Saddam never had WMD's" "It was all Bush finishing his fatehr's war!" "No Blood for Oil!"
"But if he did have WMD's that was America's fault!"
Which one is it? Did he have active germ warfare capability, given to him during the time Iran was just as violent, aggressive and dangerous as it is now but the US, or did he not have WMD's at all?
Nice way to cover all the bases, either America gets the blame for shoddy intel or America gets the blame for supplying the gear. Tho usually the doubleplusungood stories manage to be in separate articles instead of blatant "Blame America no matter what" in a single "story".
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
Blame Amerikkka First
March 24, 2008 - 10:31 ET by TinianFrom your link (with a question inserted):
We all love you Blame Amerikkka Firsters who could see into the future using 20/20 hindsight. You apparently wanted the Ayatolla Khomeini to take over the middle east!
Nope. Not "later"
March 24, 2008 - 10:43 ET by sarcasmoIt was well known at the time that Saddam was using chemical weapons against both Iran and against Iraqi Kurdish citizens. Another dimwitted conclusion fails because I was saying-so at the time. This is another case of "I told you so," even though people hate hearing that from me, because I was against the policy of taking sides in that war, too. Get used to those 4 words, folks...
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
The only four words that
March 24, 2008 - 11:14 ET by Roger the ShrubberThe only four words that Sarky resonates n this board is "I support a loser".
Or, is it "I have no friends"?
Or "I am completely unlikeable"?
Or "Hooters waitresses fear me"?
Or, perhaps most-damning: "I touch little boys"?
Still Blaming Amerikkka First
March 24, 2008 - 11:20 ET by TinianFrom your link:
That's interesting, since the first credible allegations of the use of chemical agents by Iraq date to January of 1984. So Iraq was getting chemical weapons frome somebody long before America began exporting anthrax for vaccine production and chemicals that were supposed to be used to produce pesticides.
It's a fact that French and German companies exported far more progenitors to Iran than the U.S.
But the facts won't stop you from blaming Amerikkka first.
um
March 24, 2008 - 14:55 ET by UndercoverConservativebig, HUGE difference between chemical and biological weapons. Chemical weapons were abandoned by NATO because they were useless against even a barely prepared enemy-useless against the expected NATO/Warsaw Pact tank confrontation across Europe. NATO always believed in the inherent superiority of it's hardware and it's government methodology that the need to commit genocide wasn't a useful tactical priority. Plus, as history showed, the 'scorched earth' tactics weren't NATO style. Plus, after Dresden, the media made sure such tactics weren't first choice.
Now the Soviets had a completely different philosophy. As did the Nazis before them, and the middle eastern governments who supported and adored the judenfrei policies of the time.
What are the primary weapons carried by Iran/Iraq? AK variants as opposed to AR variants. What about their armor? T series Soviet, not M60 or M1a. Antitank gear? The Soviet/Chicom RPG. Not the LAW or even the Bazooka. Aircraft? MiG instead of F series.
Chemical weapons supplied by? Perhaps the same Soviet state that realized the chemicals wouldn't be quite as effective against Western forces as planned. Might as well put 'em in a package deal.
Throw in a Soviet "Buran" spaceplane and you've got yourself a deal!
But back on point-motivation aside for the reasons for supplying germs to Iraq, has nothing to do with gasses being deployed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, politics make strange bedfellows, etc. Our mistake was in ever assuming Middle Eastern leaders were rational and understood honor and favors. Perhaps a little bargaining for hostages that agreed on and later welched on. Can you imagine how bad off we'd be if Iran hadn't been beaten so badly back then?
But hey, as long as your consistent. Clinton allowing the supply of dual-use technologies klystron triggers and multiaxis machinery for submarine props to the Chinese for a few campaign bucks should also earn your righteous "I told ya so"s. Tho I have to admit to failing to see moral equivalence of risking your country's future over an investment in possible increased national influence in the Middle East, versus risking your country's future over a few bucks in a reelection bid that benefits no one but your own power hunger.
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
They did.
March 25, 2008 - 05:05 ET by sarcasmoClinton fans were VERY angry at me (and some lefties made similarly stupid accusations to the ones I see from the right today) when I was saying, over and over, "it's not about sex, it's about money & tech to the Chinese!"
For some reason, this message made them quite unhappy, but I told the Democrats so on that one, too. Also, Saddam, when Reagan dealt with him or later, was ALWAYS a dictator, and NEVER a "leader." Don't delude yourself that brutal dictators somehow change magically due to changing US politics. They don't, and anyone with even 1/2 a clue knew all about Saddam by 1980 or so, if not earlier, even though it seems like I'm sometimes the only person capable of saying something like "Marcos/Saddam/etc. is a dictator" when he was an "ally."
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Sarc
March 24, 2008 - 10:35 ET by ricklailI meant to post this yesterday but got busy. The Charlotte Observer ran this and this about how Ayn Rand's Altas Shrugged is required reading in business classes at schools which BoA supports.
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
That's good news for free markets
March 24, 2008 - 10:50 ET by sarcasmoThe advantages SHOULD be argued from a moral, not just practical, perspective. I think the faculties that scream the loudest about requiring that book are the ones most in need of reading it themselves, but even fans like me can admit it's a bit long. Thanks, and I especially loved the "rhymes with mine" part. ;) Back when the US dollar meant something else, it's said that Ayn pioneered the "$" in jewelry which, like her book, remains popular today despite many changes, often for the worse.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Your point? Besides blaming
March 24, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberYour point? Besides blaming Reagan?
Where he's wrong, he gets blame.
March 24, 2008 - 10:52 ET by sarcasmoEven here in cult-land, from me. I warned everyone who'd listen it was a bad idea, and sure enough I was right, again. That's my point.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Oh. And where are your
March 24, 2008 - 11:09 ET by Roger the ShrubberOh. And where are your opinion solicited? I will spare you the effort. Nowhere. But being unwanted has never stopped you before, of course.
Jefferson owned slaves. How do you bear that shame?
Sheffield could delete me today.
March 24, 2008 - 11:54 ET by sarcasmoBut you're powerless to do anything about my ability to make fun of you when it's needed, Whinebot. And I have no shame whatsoever for your non sequitur.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
So, you are not for banning
March 24, 2008 - 12:05 ET by Roger the ShrubberSo, you are not for banning anyone today, like you were over the weekend?
How positively charming!
Let me know when you are going to begin making fun of me so I know it's happening. Must be that "filter" you often refer to, but the rest of us call "Sarcasmo's usual incoherent ramblings".
Chicago Trib staffers win Sun-Times contest
March 24, 2008 - 20:11 ET by nkviking75Staffers of the Chicago Tribune recently won a contest sponsored by crosstown rival the Chicago Sun-Times. CST sponsored a contest wherein people were encouraged to make a music video against selling the naming rights to Wrigley Field (which most of you know is home to the Chicago Cubs). Making this even more twisted, the Cubs are owned by the parent company of the Tribune. Leading the band is Tribune entertainment editor and, oddly enough, contemporary Christian artist Lou Carlozo. You can hear the winning song at his My Space page.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
CNN Ignorance
March 24, 2008 - 09:23 ET by KC MulvilleLast week, I had the unpleasant experience of listening to Jack Cafferty ranting on CNN. In a truly remarkable display of ignorance, Cafferty latched onto the fact that news stories about Iraq are now few and far between. He “warned” (insulted) his own viewers that they cannot afford to become ignorant of all the killing that’s going on over there. His argument is that the lack of coverage is the fault of the American public! Can you believe the arrogance of that spin?
This “milestone” is just an excuse for the networks to ignore what’s happening there, and instead reinforce the idea that we’re bogged down in a quagmire. They’ll focus on it because it’s the bad news that they’ve been waiting for. They only report bad news, because it helps the Democrats.
We will hear...
March 24, 2008 - 09:25 ET by Prester John..."another grim milestone" and the number 4,000 non-stop for the rest of the week.
"What does it mean for the McCain campaign"?
"Does this mean the Surge has failed"?
"What will the Democratic leadership do to end the war"?
Etc.
Etc.
Congratulations to the MSM
March 24, 2008 - 09:36 ET by CapitalismRulesI'd like to congratulate the MSM for being the primier killer of U.S. troops in Iraq- now some 4,000 strong. Better than a suicide bomber, more effective than a road side IED, you have inspired terrorist after terrorist to kill, mame, torture while inviting others to join in the carnage. Your platform to the world is a beacon to other hate-filled Muslims and while your objective journalistic standards may force you to appear neutral, you have risen above this imaginary yardstick to introduce to the American People terms like "civil war," "freedom fighters," "war-weary citizens," "Abu-Ghraib," "refugee crisis," among so many others that have helped to wear down the American will to fight on. And despite the evil nature of those who would harm typical civilians, the shared loathing of George W. Bush has helped to push any successes in Iraq to the back of the newspapers and magazines and well towards the end of any newscast.
As long as you continue to remind the American people how weak, pathetic and tired they really are, as long as you can make them forget the sacrifices of the past for a government-controlled present and future, you will continue to be the #1 killer of American troops and maybe even all innocent people worldwide. Good luck with this endeavor and we thank you.
You are exactly right, where
March 24, 2008 - 10:33 ET by general companyYou are exactly right, where else could the terrorist get so much inspiration? I also hold the MSM responsible for most of ALL the dead in the Middle East.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest". Mark Twain
Absolutely. If the media
March 24, 2008 - 10:55 ET by CapitalismRulesAbsolutely. If the media decides that it is their "journalistic duty" to publish my address, how much money is in my house, where I keep it and where I hide my key and someone sneaks in and kills me for my cash- hey THEY can't be responsible, they were just exercising their 1st Amendment Rights.
Also....
March 24, 2008 - 14:09 ET by SQL_SamDon't forget, after you have been killed and robbed (and your house burnt down - can't have fingerprints), the media will then sue your family for Libel against them, thus they have successfully bankrupted your family after your death thus the media's operation of "Shock and Awesome wave dude" is now complete (California media named the operation). But then again you deserve it you damn neo-con....... </sarc off>
Headline says "Overall US Death Toll in Iraq Reaches 4000"
March 24, 2008 - 09:44 ET by PawpawNWhat does the headline mean? Does it include all US people killed or just soldiers? Why put headline that way? http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080324/D8VJQUUG0.html
It means that some deaths
March 24, 2008 - 09:47 ET by CapitalismRulesIt means that some deaths are combat-related and some are not, but the important thing is that it is (ooooooohhh) Four Thousand.
Another death count
March 24, 2008 - 09:52 ET by PawpawNCheck this death count! http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html
Your death doesn't count
March 24, 2008 - 10:00 ET by CapitalismRulesYour death doesn't count unless your mom wants/ loves you or unless it serves a political purpose in time of war.
Unless or course you are a cuddly or endangered animal in which case if your mom tries to eat you, PETA will throw you some help.
Sen BHO's state 2004 abortion rate
March 24, 2008 - 09:54 ET by PawpawNIll 2004 abortion rate http://www.idph.state.il.us/health/abortion/abort04.htm
Alcohol related deaths-what is figure for last 5 years?
March 24, 2008 - 09:58 ET by PawpawNWhat is the figure for alcohol realted deaths the last 5 years? http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/25/049276.html
For the sixth day in a row,
March 24, 2008 - 10:01 ET by BDFor the sixth day in a row, both the LA Times and New Yrok Times have ignored the news that US Navy Seal Michael Mansoor will be awarded the Medal of Honor Posthumously.
My standing bet that they bury the story on page B-10 under an Advertisement is now beginning to look a bit follish as it seems they will NEVER publish a story on this.
Just another MSM canard...
March 24, 2008 - 10:07 ET by owr084The MSM once again tries to convince us that 2+2 = 5.
To date, there have been 3,270 US combat deaths (Killed in Action, KIA) in Iraq and 730 Non-hostile US deaths in IRAQ.
Those 730 Non-hostile deaths could have happened anywhere in the world, not just Iraq. To lump them in with the combat deaths in Iraq is like comparing apples to oranges. But, that has never stopped the MSM before....
it's really sad
March 24, 2008 - 10:12 ET by candanceThe way these people boost a death toll to make their point look better. It's almost like they're disappointed the number isn't higher.
It's a tragedy for anyone to die too early and I'm saddened by the ones who did lose their lives...but they volunteered for the military, they believed in what they were doing, and I'm sure they don't want their deaths to be for naught.
If liberals had any compassion at all they would understand that.
And this was before the surge! Military deaths.
March 24, 2008 - 10:15 ET by PawpawNTop put things in proper perspective, maybe the MSM would place this chart and info with the story, since it comes from our beloved CONGRESS! http://sweetness-light.com/archive/crs-stats-show-troop-deaths-at-peacetime-rate
Kwame Kilpatrick indicted.
March 24, 2008 - 10:30 ET by Missouri ConservativeFrom the AP: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VJSE0O0&show_article=1
No party affiliation mentioned.
Did anyone have any doubt as to what party Rick Renzi was?
"women and minorities hardest hit"
No party affiliation
March 24, 2008 - 10:52 ET by NewsbusterbrownNo party affiliation mentioned.
It was just an oversight!
- Your Typical Liberal
What does it mean to me?
March 24, 2008 - 11:05 ET by JWFA military retiree perspective.
One of the lowest casualty rates for any war this country has been in.
We have yet to lose a battle on the battlefield. Any time foriegn fighters comes up against our guys, they lose and lose big.
We have an all volunteer force that is the best equipped, best trained, most capable military on the planet.
Overall, I would say things are going very well.
We are on the verge of signing an agreement with the new Iraqi government to have us stay. An agreement where the Iraqi govt. is asking us to stay. An agreement similar to what we have in Japan and Germany.
Once that agreement is in place, I will upgrade to Outstanding.
JWF... Hey thanks for the
March 24, 2008 - 12:09 ET by bigtimerJWF...
Hey thanks for the update on Iraq regarding the upcoming agreement for us to stay...much appreciated, I knew nothing of this....I agree with your sentiments in your post.
Thanks for you service too...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Here is the link
March 24, 2008 - 12:27 ET by JWFNo problem sir.
"Al-Maliki, speaking through an interpreter, also cited security improvements and said he and the vice president had talked about negotiations underway to spell out the legal basis for the presence of U.S. troops on Iraqi territory and to establish the legal rights and obligations of the troops, the so-called "status of forces agreement." "
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Mar17/0,4670,Cheney,00.html
JWF... Thanks...link
March 24, 2008 - 12:36 ET by bigtimerJWF...
Thanks...link saved to read in full later...
VP Cheney...three thumbs up!
Btw...I'm a dude-ette...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
ah!
March 24, 2008 - 17:05 ET by JWFThen that was the non denominational gender neutral star trek "sir" that we saw in the first star trek movie.
US taxpayers to cough up $23mil for border fence.
March 24, 2008 - 12:15 ET by R D HelmOnly problem is the fence is in Egypt.
local Republican scandals
March 24, 2008 - 11:51 ET by candanceWho says local leaders are not identified by party?
Observe a news article from 2005 in which the mayor of Spokane, embroiled in a sex scandal, is identified as a Republican in the very first sentence.
Observe coverage of a sex scandal in 1998 in which a County Commissioner is indentified as a Republican within five paragraphs.
Observe an article from 2005 in which a city councilman embroiled in a sex scandal is identified as a Republican.
Observe an article from the Lawrence Journal about Mark Foley in 2006 - there are 12 references to the key players being Republican.
Observe the Las Vegas Review Journal who identified a city councilman with a record for child molestation as a Republican in the very first sentence.
Observe a CNN article from 2001 in which the mayor of Waterbury Connecticut, involved in a sex scandal, is identified as a Republican in the sixth paragraph.
Please find one article from a newspaper or "unbiased" source in which Kilpatrick is immediately identified as a Democrat.
crash code
March 24, 2008 - 12:20 ET by Jack Bauercrash code red...
Apparently The O'Bama Factor's national favorables are in free fall... and they haven't floored yet.
Mmmmm, I wonder why?
In the American medical
March 24, 2008 - 17:08 ET by stratmanIn the American medical facilities I have been in, Code Red alerts to a fire and Code Blue alerts to a cardiopulmonary arrest/emergency.
For us Yanks I think Code Blue might be more apropos.
Floor nurses also have their own Code system, such as Code Brown for a poopy patient.
RRAM Tough!
Here is something for the kiddies...
March 25, 2008 - 05:00 ET by BritcomSomewhat disturbing plush toys: Link >>
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen" of the United States?
Is there any form of energy the environmentalists support?
March 24, 2008 - 12:24 ET by R D HelmIt seems that anytime an alternative energy source is proposed, the Enviro-kooks find some reason to oppose it.
They don't like oil, coal, natural gas, hydro-electric or nuclear energy. You really have to wonder what their true motives are.
Somehow, I think it has more to do with wrecking our economy than saving the planet.
But that's just me.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
RD... Wrecking our
March 24, 2008 - 12:33 ET by bigtimerRD...
Wrecking our economy, destroying any chance of being self-dependent here in this country ...all the while filling their own pockets with the likes of algore leading the way.
I hear constantly from all three candidates that we need to be self-dependent here fuel wise, quit giving the terrorist/dictators $$$...but not a one of them supports drilling here...past pathetic.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hey John Mc Cain, another
March 24, 2008 - 13:30 ET by USA4freedomHey John Mc Cain, another love note from your biggest fans at the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/us/politics/24mccain.html?ex=1206936000&en=46df03d843a3cec6&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY
But hey, don’t worry you can always slam the base for being insensitive .
Ronald Reagan, 1962: I did not leave the Democratic party, the party left me.
Insert: your name, 2008, and the Republican party.
Romney / Jendil 2012 (if,we survive)
Where they are going...
March 25, 2008 - 04:43 ET by BritcomThese kooks are all headed in the same direction, and it already has a name: VHEMT >>
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen" of the United States?
Fox/Friends/Wallace
March 24, 2008 - 13:23 ET by bigtimerDid anybody happen to see Fox&Friends this morning around the top of their second hour I think it was, they set the record straight with last Fri. Wallace admonition to them, and the so-called Kilmeade flap...it was priceless to me...I rarely watch this show anymore but did want to see if there was going to be anything about this all today...plus they mentioned at the top of all of this segment Wallace's countdown with Obama being on his show and his promise to him.
It was a good segment IMO....made me smile that they all had the time-line down to the wire, Wallace's errs ect....
I looked for a link earlier on Fox, couldn't find one.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
why not "celebrate" a much worse death toll?
March 24, 2008 - 14:11 ET by UndercoverConservative2,158 murders committed by illegal immigrants (according to the FBI) EACH YEAR. That means over TEN THOUSAND dead in the same period! But these @ssholes want to flood every single AP news outlet with the anti-American stats, anything to hurt the country, complaining about America invading Iraq but not once mentioning the massively higher death toll caused by the undeclared, unacknowledged invasion Mexico sanctions.
By the time you include loss of life, societal expenses, law enforcement and incarceration costs, welfare expenses, the Second Mexican War is costing this country almost as much as overseas deployment in Iraq.
Nevermind the death toll in Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and the American Civil War was more than that Daily in any given battle.
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
Poor Kwame
March 24, 2008 - 15:16 ET by UphillJust another example of The Man trying to keep him down.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080324/METRO/803240405
And the response.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080324/METRO/803240422
Hey!
March 24, 2008 - 15:21 ET by UphillI just noticed I've been a member for 2 years and 2 hours! Drinks are on me!
Uphill.... ....Cheers!...
March 24, 2008 - 15:22 ET by bigtimerUphill....
....Cheers!...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Thanks BT!
March 24, 2008 - 15:26 ET by UphillI hope I don't have any back dues that need to be paid.
Wow...Cafferty just tore
March 24, 2008 - 15:21 ET by bigtimerWow...Cafferty just tore into Hillary and her Bosnia/sniper fire story..err I mean lies...he had a good true two minute rant for a change on the Wolfie show...
Carville up next about Richardson and the Judas comment. He is standing by his comment about Richardson....he is disloyal! He is satisfied with his response....blah blah blah...
I am cracking up laughing here....turning out to be another humourous day with the dems after-all...
...and the story continues As the World Turns...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Modo...The Clintoon
March 24, 2008 - 17:32 ET by bigtimerModo...The Clintoon Chickens are Coming Home to Roost.
...too funny.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt, great column.
March 24, 2008 - 19:27 ET by R D HelmI love what she says at the beginning about Broom Hilda being the Terminator and having only one circuit left.
Good stuff.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
delete
March 24, 2008 - 20:21 ET by motherbeltdelete
Another Suit Questions McCain's "Natural Born" Citizenship
March 25, 2008 - 04:25 ET by BritcomSource: AP
** John McCain could NOT have been born in the Coco Solo Military Hospital in 1936, it wasn't built until after 1941. The local hospital at Colon Panama served the base until the military hospital was built. Colon was OUTSIDE the US administered Panama Canal Zone. Follow the link below for more details.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Why is John McCain Lying about What Hospital he was Born in?
Mute point! JM is US Citizen!
March 25, 2008 - 06:08 ET by PawpawNAnyone knows that to be naturalized US citizen only the following be necessary. Seems he totally qualifies.
"Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example."
I am afraid not
March 25, 2008 - 20:51 ET by BritcomFirst of all, Section 1401 is not a part of the Constitution, it is statute, and lacks the power to change the language or meaning of the "natural born" clause of the Constitution. Only a Constitutional Amendment has the power to do that.
Second, nowhere in section 1401 does it say that it is making anyone a "natural born" citizen, it just says "citizen". "A Citizen at birth" is not equivalent to, and has not the same legal meaning as "natural born Citizen". So no joy there. You are making the wrong argument. The debate is not "citizenship" it is "natural born" status. 1401 is statute law, so it can only bestow naturalized US Citizenship on those born abroad, which is good enough for most everything except holding the office of President, because the Founding Fathers wrote into the Constitution a special requirement for that office alone, each US Citizen who wants to be President must also have been "natural born" in the US.
"Natural born" as I said above, means born within the borders of the United States. Neither Panama, nor the Canal Zone, nor the Coco Solo base was ever "within the borders of the United States" as defined.
This disability has always existed, and it will continue to exist until an Amendment to the Constitution addresses it and is ratified by the several states. So there you have it.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Check this out
March 25, 2008 - 06:29 ET by OldSailor88You can read about Fred Hollander.
And, by the way, britcom, you're really getting tiresome with this. He is natural born because both of his parents were U.S. Citizens. He was a Military birth overseas. My oldest daughter is the same way. Born at Kanagawa Children's Hospital, in Yokohama. She even has a birth certificate in Kanji (gasp!), but she has all the paperwork filed with the embassy, a social security card, and a passport to prove her citizenship. It's not a unique situation, there are millions of Military dependents out there like her. Get over it.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
I don't know as I can be any plainer about this...
March 25, 2008 - 20:45 ET by BritcomUS Citizenship ALONE does NOT make you eligible to hold the office of the President, the United States Constitution SAYS that any US Citizen seeking the office of the President MUST... I repeat, MUST be "natural born".
What does "natural born" mean? It means the opposite of "naturalized". It means born within the borders of the United States.
What constitutes the "United States"? The courts have told us it means any incorporated territory of the US.
Which places are "incorporated" territories of the US? The Government tells us:
Not Panama, Not the Canal Zone, Not Gitmo, Not any military bases, Not embassies, in fact NO other US administered places are "incorporated" territories of the US. That means that even though you may be a US Citizen, you are still INeligable to hold the office of the President unless you were born within the borders of one of those above listed US places. So you can thank John Jay (Founding Father, and the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court) for that clause in the US Constitution. If you don't like it, you can go and argue with him yourself, he is buried in Rye, NY.
So, yes, that means that all of those US citizens born abroad can't become President either. Sorry, but them's the breaks. Wail all you want, only a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the requisite number of States can change the words written on our nation's most sacred and revered document.
Add to that the recently revealed fact that McCain's birthplace was not even in the US Administered Canal Zone, and you have no argument at all. McCain is a natural born Citizen of the Republic of Panama, and became a naturalized US citizen AFTER his birth by virtue of his US Parents filling out a request for it. As we all know, naturalized US Citizens, even though they are full US Citizens, cannot qualify for the Presidency because of the "natural born" clause.
McCain's candidacy is DOA.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"