For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: security breach at the State Department:
Two companies that provide workers for the State Department say they fired or otherwise punished those who improperly accessed the passport records of the three major presidential candidates. The security breaches touched off demands for a congressional investigation.
Oddly, one of the people involved has ties to Obama (paragraph break removed):
The third employee, who has not been fired, worked for The Analysis Corporation (TAC), which is headed by John O. Brennan, a former CIA agent who is an adviser to Mr. Obama's presidential campaign on intelligence and foreign policy. The TAC employee is the only individual to have accessed both Mr. Obama's and Mr. McCain's passport information without proper authorization, a State Department spokesman said.
What's going on here? Any thoughts?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
What's going on.. is
March 22, 2008 - 11:21 ET by Gary HallWhat's going on.. is the perfect example of where the MSM typically finds itself disinterested in being curious.
Investigation Will End Suddenly.....
March 22, 2008 - 13:04 ET by zeestephenThe Congressional investigation will end suddenly, and this story will disappear, when the "snoopers" are revealed as illegal aliens.
birth issues
March 22, 2008 - 15:03 ET by gleefullyisaymight not be the McCain thing but since Obama's mother was a serial wife with a prediliction for foreign Muslims maybe they're searching for his place of birth, he hasn't told us the truth about anything else, gives unblinding support and love to a pastor who hates America and he himself refuses to honor the flag maybe its he who has something to hide.....just a thought.....
Passports
March 22, 2008 - 12:33 ET by TheporchLooks like the supporter and confidant of BO accessed McCain's passport then accessed BO's to give themselves cover.
Washington Times reported, where's the W POST!
March 22, 2008 - 12:35 ET by PawpawNSince it was the Washington Times that reported this, one can only assume[don't you love that word!] that the Washington Post knew, but becuase someone with possible ties to Obama and Clinton may be involved, that they conviniently closed their eyes to this! I find it very very odd indeed, as if any R was involved it would have been front page!
Which candidate has possible "passport" probs? Only one!
March 22, 2008 - 12:45 ET by Jack BauerYes I have one. Follow the foreign money.
Only ONE candidate has had any sort of controversy over their legal status and qualification to run for the office of President of the United States.
And that would be JOHN McCAIN.
So wouldn't accessing McCain's PASSPORT RECORDS offer some legal insight as to where he has stated his place of birth?
Jack... Interesting
March 22, 2008 - 13:41 ET by bigtimerJack...
Interesting thoughts there friend...never thought of that.
As an aside..when this first broke and Olbermann went non-stop with glee calling this major breaking news just salivating for his full hour show that night...I cracked up laughing...where was the outrage when it came to Linda Tripp with bow-tie K. Bacon as head of the State Dept. and her files being brought forth illegally to the public, trying to shame her .......huh?
Total hypocrites..but we will have non-stop congressional panels looking into all of this with Waxman leading the charge, hand in hand with the msm, unless of course they find out one of their own is behind all of this from the beginning, which to me would be H. Rodham Clinton, she has her left-overs working for her in the Dept...here is one of them...
Who knows really what will come of this but the msm has tampered this down....wonder why?
It is curious all in all...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt -- well my first thought
March 22, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Jack Bauerbt -- well my first thought when it broke was...
a) How many times did Obama party on down in Cancun in the 80s boogying to Wham and Haircut 100... but, then seriously...
b) how weird because if anyone really had something worth discovering, only McCain fit the bill.
Then BINGO, next day!
Hey Jack... I... as a
March 22, 2008 - 13:59 ET by bigtimerHey Jack...
I... as a lowly constituent out here demand an answer (lol)...what did he put down as his place of birth?
Wonder if we see any leaks in the future about all of this...
McCaskill and Obama are all but at the ready to pass an amendment to allow McCain to float no matter the answer...going to be interesting.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Oh, I suspect this is going
March 22, 2008 - 14:07 ET by Jack BauerOh, I suspect this is going to be an issue if McCain stays ahead in the polls.
Not directly by the Democrats -- but from concerned surrogates, I mean citizens.
Isn't it already up somewhere for a court hearing? Thought I read that a few weeks back.
Jack... A court
March 22, 2008 - 14:15 ET by bigtimerJack...
A court hearing...I missed that news...I would sure like to know if so, I will maybe google later on...thanks for letting me know though, I didn't watch all that much going on in the Senate though, are you saying the Senate already passed this and it is befor a court hearing now or what?
I'm kinda' lost here...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt -- no I could be wrong,
March 22, 2008 - 14:35 ET by Jack Bauerbt -- no I could be wrong, but I had a vague recall that someone (private citizen) was going to challenge McCain's eligibility to run in Federal court.
That's all. Nothing more than that. I think I read it on a NB post. Could even be in that thread on NB, whose location escapes me.
Is this the thread you were refering to?
March 22, 2008 - 19:22 ET by BritcomQ. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen" of the United States?
or perhaps it was the link below.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Why is John McCain Lying about What Hospital he was Born in?
Hi Brit... Sorry 'bout
March 22, 2008 - 19:38 ET by bigtimerHi Brit...
Sorry 'bout that...I said in my post below I thought it was Binxly...hey at least I got part of it right, you both start with a 'B'...lol.
Glad you posted your forum thread though.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
No Prob. :)
March 22, 2008 - 23:16 ET by Britcom---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Why is John McCain Lying about What Hospital he was Born in?
No doubt McCain is a native born US citizen
March 22, 2008 - 14:32 ET by nkviking75You'd think the son of a US Navy Admiral who was born on a US base would have a pretty strong claim on being born with US citizenship. Ironically, children of illegal immigrants born on US soil are automatically US citizens.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
nk -- actually this is in
March 22, 2008 - 14:38 ET by Jack Bauernk -- actually this is in play. I don't buy it either, just retreading stuff that's out there. There's a whole thread on NB about this.
Lots of Americans' citizenship status just like McCain's
March 22, 2008 - 14:50 ET by nkviking75Well, someone may be stupid enough to try it, but if they succeeded, that would throw the citizenship of a lot of Americans into question. I had a cousin who was born to two American citizens on an Army base in Germany. There must be thousands, maybe millions, in that same position.
If this goes to court, a judge ought to laugh the case right out. Unfortunately, we can't depend on courts to be sensible.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Actually a case brought up
March 22, 2008 - 23:15 ET by BritcomActually a case brought up about John McCain's citizenship status would not greatly impact the citizenship status of the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Only those Americans who seek the Presidency would be effected. The "natural born" clause of the Constitution refers only to qualifying for the office of the President.
U.S. Citizens not of natural birth (i.e. those born to U.S. Parents overseas or on military bases) would still have all of their other citizenship rights, they just would not be able to be President unless a constitutional amendment were adopted that eliminated Founder John Jay's "natural born Citizen" disability clause.
It has been shown that John McCain likely was NOT born on the U.S. base at Coco Solo, or even in the U.S. administered Panama Canal Zone at all (see link at the bottom), other children actually born on U.S. bases, according the the State Department, are not citizens by virtue of the soil, but by declaration of the law that allows them to claim U.S. Citizenship if their Parents are Citizens. In other words, there are three classes of U.S. Citizenship;
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Why is John McCain Lying about What Hospital he was Born in?
Jack thanks for the answer
March 22, 2008 - 14:53 ET by bigtimerJack thanks for the answer in your post above...I gotcha' ya' and know what you mean now, I think I read/heard the same thing you are talking about, yeah I also think it is Binxly's thread? (not sure) Quite a long one about all of this, I read a lot of it on and off.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Jack - Your Requested Suit
March 22, 2008 - 23:00 ET by CGattonWhile I am confident that McCain is a natural born citizen - see my comments in Britcom's thread - here is a link to the actual complaint, as well as a link to the plaintiff. Please note his lack of bias {gag!}. I think this is likely to be tossed, since he and his other two (existent?) plaintiffs most likely lack standing.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
On Further Review
March 23, 2008 - 04:00 ET by CGattonIt turns out this is a whole lot more of a problem than anticipated. No, not for John McCain, but for those who are trying to make this an issue. The complaint to which I linked above has several flaws, and most legal opinion is that it will go nowhere, for the following reasons.
The petitioner has no standing. As it turns out, the only ones who might possibly have standing would be the other candidates themselves, and even that is questionable. General legal reasoning that I have found is that only the electoral college would have standing to file such a lawsuit, and then only after convening. Can you really imagine the college bringing forward such a challenge, since if it were necessary to raise the point, McCain would already have the electoral votes necessary to be elected, and these same voters are the ones who would have to file the lawsuit? Since it cannot proceded through the courts normally, and since the electoral college would be very unlikely to file such a suit, the only remaining bulwark would be the Chief Justice at the actual inaugeration. He could refuse to administer the oath, on the basis that McCain would be breaking the oath of office simply by taking the oath. That's not going to happen either.
The suit fails to demonstrate how the petitioners would be harmed, even if everything believed were true. Instead, they ask for an advisory opinion, something courts seldom do, particularly if the opinion concerns something political, which brings me to the third point.
This is a non-judiciable political question, which federal courts refrain from hearing, for two reasons - it's non-judiciable, and it's political, lol. (Only in the law can this stuff be said with a straight face.)
Finally, the court in which the case was filed lacks jurisdiction, and the only possible court which can have jusrisdiction is the US District Court for the District of Columbia, and even it won't have jurisdiction until January 20th, 2009.
Please note that I have nowhere here attempted to argue or show that there are not differing legal opinions on whether or not McCain does meet the natural-born test. While many of the opinions I culled for this make no bones about wishing he were ineligible, they all agreed there is no recourse except what I stated above, if the federal courts refuse to hear the case, which they fully expect. Most also went further and stated that the only those born premature, by c-section, or conceived by in-vivo or in-vitro fertilization would fail to pass the natural born test - though I think that was partly tongue-in-cheek.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Who DIDN'T boogie down to
March 22, 2008 - 14:07 ET by Roger the ShrubberWho DIDN'T boogie down to Haircut 100 back in the early 80's?
haha
Seriously, though, I think there is some serious misdirection going on. Only one candidate recoords were wanted. The other two are just a distraction. Jackson is correct (as usual): McCain.
LOL shrubbo -- wasn't right
March 22, 2008 - 14:28 ET by Jack BauerLOL shrubbo -- wasn't right about Fred Thompson.
Put $20 on him at 25/1 to win the Repnom. Should have just bought beer.
Well, if it's any
March 22, 2008 - 14:52 ET by Roger the ShrubberWell, if it's any consolation, I am sure NB's resident Paulbot gambled 100 times what you did, so confident he was in his Lord and Saviour's prospects.
Nope, Whinebot.
March 23, 2008 - 04:08 ET by sarcasmo$0.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
In true humorless dweeb style...
March 23, 2008 - 10:01 ET by Roger the ShrubberLOL, you are stupid enough to actually reply.
What a poser. If you actually thought your God would win, you'd have bet on him. Not even $20? What a fraud. I bet you donated to DasBlimp though, didn't ya?
Jack... Same
March 22, 2008 - 19:26 ET by Clear thinkerJack...
Same here!
"Abstain from McCain"
Hear, hear
March 22, 2008 - 19:23 ET by Britcom---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Why is John McCain Lying about What Hospital he was Born in?
The Lack of Confidentiality Over at State
March 22, 2008 - 13:18 ET by geoff.galeThe recent disclosure that contract workers accessed the passport records of the three presidential candidates speaks to an issue that the lame-stream media seem loathe to report - that corruption reigns supreme in America. The fact that there's an Obama-related backstory to this flap is just rotten icing on a decaying cake.
It's all done with a wink and a nod; Congress brings the news media bloodhounds to a point on something innoccuous like steriods in baseball, or McEliot Spitzer, while Arab investors pressure the government into bailing out the investment banks they own. All the while there's no mention of bailing out the little guys strung out by mortgages that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place except for the pressure levied by race-baiters and America haters on Congress to open up the "American Dream" to everyone.
Oh, there's something dirty going on in this kerfuffle over at State, but sadly it's just a minor sidebar to the drama that is the the selling and corruption of America.
But you won't hear that in the media - you just might get mad enough to do something about it, and we don't want that to happen now do we?
O-BAMA REJECTS LIB LABEL
March 23, 2008 - 22:08 ET by reelman46OBAMA (aka The Candyman) REJECTS LIB LABEL
Obama, in a recent interview, said that “a lot of these old labels don’t apply anymore.”
He said he was a progressive and a pragmatist,
eager to tackle the big issues like health care and convinced that the
Democrats could rally independents and disaffected Republicans to their
agenda.
CRAWFISH NOTE: Fine, we won’t call you a liberal…we
will label you based upon your #1 far lefty voting record…you are a
SECULAR SOCIALIST. That is how you vote so that is the best
description. Don’t you just love the lefties who label everything and
everybody but whine like babies when you call them liberal (liberal =
bigger gov-ment, higher taxes, no traditional moral borders)?
Did I mention secular socialism is in no way “progressive or pragmatic” to any culture?
Liberals always want to “make the rules” and can create words (radical
right, neocon, gay, progressive, undocumented worker, etc.) but their
speech police forbid the use of other words (that list grows yearly).
You just want to use the traditional “liberal and conservative”… you “ask too much”. Non-liberals always “ask too much”.
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
Tony McPeak
March 22, 2008 - 13:32 ET by bigtimermb...
If you are here today I am posting this about the General whose name I couldn't remember that was mentioned on some talking head show about him being named VP a week or more ago...anyway he is making news today...and it is the guy I think I said started with an 'M'...he is Tony McPeak, and he spoke today before Obama in Medford Oregon regarding Bill Clinton and his statements questioning Obama's patriotism...he said yesterday that Bill sounded of McCarthyism...he backed off a little this morning just now, never mentioning the word McCarthyism, but not by much....this has been too funny...all of it.
Here is the link about Gen. Tony McPeak.
Btw...I am sure they will or already have had clips of him speaking on the msm about all of this.
Catch ya' when I catch ya'...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
LIBERAL "BODY COUNTS" VARY
March 23, 2008 - 09:07 ET by reelman46LIBERAL “BODY COUNTS” VARY
US Deaths in Iraq Approach 4,000; Mar 22, 7:07 PM (ET)
By ROBERT H. REID
(AP) Awakening council members, a Sunni group fighting al-Qaida, stand around the bodies of six of their…
BAGHDAD (AP) - A roadside bomb killed three American soldiers north of
Baghdad on Saturday, pushing the U.S. death toll in the five-year
conflict to nearly 4,000.
CRAWFISH NOTE: Homosexuals killing tens of thousands
by deliberate sexual behavior… not an issue… please find a vaccine so
we may continue is the lib cry… tens of thousands of deaths in the
black community because the deliberate warped liberal welfare destroyed
the family unit so now drugs and gangs are far too common teen
pursuits…not an issue… please keep voting democrat… we love you and
will save you (maybe in another 40 years or maybe not but just keep
voting democrat)… is the lib cry… but when a voluntary military gets
4,000 killed in WAR against the bombing beheaders bringing freedom to
50 million people under a dictator (who deliberately murdered at least
200,000 citizens) over 5 years… you would think the world has ended in
lib-land.
I tell you what, let’s not cry until we approach 10% of the losses of
any dictator. Did I mention libs think the evil USA creates all
dictators?
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
politics
March 22, 2008 - 15:07 ET by WesenWho else but Clinton surrogates would be responsible for the breech? It reminds me of the writer who theorized that when Hillary became the nominee the Clintons would make sure McCain's Russian prison transcripts were released.
In case y'all missed it,
March 22, 2008 - 16:20 ET by Jack BauerIn case y'all missed it, the ever brilliant James Taranto pricks the balloon headed John Kerry exquisitely...and hilariously. Liberals, they say the dumbest things.
With Extreme Prejudice
By JAMES TARANTO
Remember John Kerry? He was the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, lauded by his supporters for his intellect and his nuance, as compared with the simpleminded George W. Bush. Having lost the election, he decided to sit out the 2008 contest. He recently endorsed Barack Obama, and earlier this week he sat down with the editorial board of the Standard-Times (New Bedford, Mass.) to make the case for his candidate.
It's a real jaw-dropper. ABC News's Jake Tapper sums it up:
Kerry was asked what gives Obama that credibility."Because he's African-American. Because he's a black man. Who has come from a place of oppression and repression through the years in our own country."
One obvious question: What do the events of this week, involving Obama's own church, tell us about his ability to "stand up against" a "radical misinterpretation of a legitimate religion"? Nothing very encouraging in this columnist's view, but many observers view Obama much more charitably in this regard than we do.
What is really striking about Kerry's case for Obama, though, is that it rests on what may be the crudest stereotyping we have ever observed. Commentary's Abe Greenwald has a chuckle over Kerry's racial stereotyping of Obama:
Where is this "place of oppression and repression" in which Obama has suffered "through the years"? Hawaii? Harvard? The Senate? We should find out immediately and do something about this horrific crisis.
But Kerry isn't just stereotyping blacks. He is stereotyping Muslims too. And he is drawing an equivalence between American blacks, a racial minority in one country, and Middle Eastern Muslims, a religious majority in a whole region.
To John Kerry, it seems, all "disenfranchised" people look alike.
Never mind that, as Greenwald points out, "Arab Muslims [are] none too happy with their black countrymen in northern Africa." Never mind that in some African countries, notably Sudan and Mauritania, Arab Muslims still enslave blacks.
To Kerry, it seems, all "oppressed peoples" look alike. The man has all the intellectual subtlety of a third-rate ethnic studies professor.
I couldn't even read that
March 22, 2008 - 17:01 ET by motherbeltI couldn't even read that whole thing.
Who on earth is going to believe that the Harvard-educated Obama and his Princeton-educated wife are "disenfranchised"?
I suppose we have "disenfanchised" lawyers, and "disenfranchised" professors, and "disenfranchised" state legislators, and "disenfranchised" senators.
Disenfranchised??? Not to worry...you too can be President!!
Jeez, Kerry is talking like we are about to nominate an uneducated burger-flipper to be President of the US.
One thing is certain, the years haven't made Kerry any smarter, or any more politically savvy, either.
I wish he'd miss the plane back from the beach....
March 22, 2008 - 18:50 ET by gleefullyisayKerry like Obama is clueless regarding foreign relations, for them to think we can have sit downs and drink tea with people who's sole goal in life is to kill the infidels (us), oh wait Obama has been raised with Muslim ideology, sat in Islamic/Muslim church disguised as a Christian church. What Kerry really meant to say this is on the job experience for B. Hussein Obama....SO I guess since B. Hussein Obama also has experience with Muslims, being that he's a closet one, that qualifies him to meet with our enemies and go around them to His people.
Honestly I swear it sounds like BHO never gave up the drugs and he's been sharing them with Kerry.
Jack,
March 22, 2008 - 19:10 ET by R D HelmLOL-Rush covered that goober on his show yesterday.
Unbelievable.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Hey mb... If you're
March 22, 2008 - 19:17 ET by bigtimerHey mb...
If you're around I wonder if you saw this today, I saw your post regarding her the other day...thought you might be interested.
Going to be interesting to hear what the problem is....if we do that is.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt, Sara Jane Olson wasn't supposed to be released.
March 22, 2008 - 19:35 ET by R D HelmIt appears her release was an "administrative error."
I found this just now.
Major screw-up, I'd say.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
RD... Hmmmm...we shall
March 22, 2008 - 19:43 ET by bigtimerRD...
Hmmmm...we shall see what happens I guess...rather soon.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
This is Really Great News!
March 22, 2008 - 22:38 ET by CaringwhiteguyI just had to post it as soon as I saw it. That slimeball killer Sara Jane Olson is back in prison. She was let out too soon on a clerical error. http://www.cnn.com/2.... I couldn't be happier. Too bad her sentence is still going to be very short. She deserved a needle in the arm.
Cwg... LOL that's exactly
March 22, 2008 - 22:50 ET by bigtimerCwg...
LOL that's exactly what the posts are about directly above you...links and all...
Great news indeed!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
WOW !!!!!!!!!!
March 22, 2008 - 22:48 ET by MrShyThe DNC/left is eating away at itself...
http://www.cnn.com/2...
All 3 contracters who were disciplined/fired over snooping into the passports were ALL working for companies that contributed to Dems -- one for Obama, the other for Hillary.
Naturally, this revelation is buried in a small, side link on CNN.com, not plastered with a photo of McCain, or Condi, cuz..... oh shoot.... it's all Democratic operatives going at each other.
Gotta love this. And, as usual, total cover from the MSM.
* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change
quick question Shy
March 22, 2008 - 23:03 ET by candanceWill this new development, that adds to the shelf life of this story as more and more details are revealed...will this be covered by the media as much as the opening story when it looked like Bush's fault?
Not All Were Fired
March 22, 2008 - 23:45 ET by CGatton"[One is] an employee who works for The Analysis Corporation and is still with the company. The firm is headed by John O. Brennan, an Obama adviser, ...[who] advises the Democratic presidential candidate on intelligence and foreign policy matters."
The entire article is posted at foxnews.com.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
oops
March 22, 2008 - 23:30 ET by candancewrong thread, nevermind.
No Odds For a Long Life, I'm Afraid
March 22, 2008 - 23:58 ET by CGatton"Italy's most prominent Muslim commentator, a journalist with iconoclastic views such as support for Israel, converted to Roman Catholicism Saturday when the pope baptized him at an Easter service." - source
It is not my intent to make light of this man's decision or action, but what is his current life expectancy? Anyone here think it just went up?
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Gatton
March 23, 2008 - 00:04 ET by candanceYes I read that and was floored. And I suspect you are right - Al Qaeda probably has a bounty on his head already. I hope the poor guy has some good protection.
Where's truthie running interference on stories like these?
He now has excellent
March 23, 2008 - 00:24 ET by NL207He now has excellent protection for his soul. Unfortunately, being a Christian does not innoculate the believer with any immunity to the perils of this world. It only provides a benefit in the next.
Happy Easter to all
March 23, 2008 - 00:18 ET by botgand to all a good night
"Man created god(s) Anything believed was created by man"----Syrius
Happy Easter, botg. 'night.
March 23, 2008 - 00:20 ET by R D HelmTheme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Hey...night to all from
March 23, 2008 - 00:32 ET by bigtimerHey...night to all from Montana...I hid colored eggs for all to find in Big Sky Country...despite alGore global warming and all..Ham and eggs at the break of day...may you all have a warm, heartfelt, memorable blessed Easter...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Good night bt
March 23, 2008 - 00:36 ET by shawn228Happy Easter to you as well.
'night, bt.
March 23, 2008 - 00:47 ET by R D HelmAnd I'll take those eggs scrambled w/ cheese and a touch of dill, and I like my ham really crispy, my hashbrowns well-done w/ onions, and my grits with real butter, a shot o' cream and lots of fresh ground pepper. :-)
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!