For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Tax rebates to stimulate the economy:
The stimulus has been debated in Washington for more than a week as the economic outlook worsened, and now Americans are armed with specifics: Individuals will get up to $600, working couples $1,200 and those with children $300 more per child.
So, what do you think about this plan? Is it just election-year grandstanding, or will this actually help?
Also for consideration is this suggestion by a Neal Boortz caller yesterday: give all Americans one month off from paying taxes! Now THAT'S a stimulus package!!!
How 'bout we start it in February right in the middle of the quarter when the recession might be beginning? Might this stop the downturn right in its tracks, or does this make too much darned sense for Washington to enact?



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
One Month Off From Taxes
January 26, 2008 - 10:20 ET by Noel SheppardNBers,
ONE MONTH OFF FROM TAXES! Wouldn't that be great?
Of course, the Dems would never agree to such a strategy for if Americans ever realized just how much government takes from them each month, there'd be no liberals left!!! :-) ns
Noel
January 26, 2008 - 10:57 ET by ricklailThat would be great but they would get it back when it came time to file taxes next year. By the way, if we do get this money will we have to file it as income for 2008? As greeded as our governor here in NC is I know we have to pay state income tax on it. (Boy to live in Florida where there is no state income tax.)
I didn't get the last rebate because my daughter was 17 at the time. She was a senoir in high school which would have helped with all the bucks that parents must shell out for a free edeucation especially when they are senoirs.
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
Rick
January 26, 2008 - 11:03 ET by Noel SheppardRick,
No, I think as part of the plan, you would reduce everyone's yearly tax burden in 2008 by 1/12. ns
Newsbusters
January 26, 2008 - 14:08 ET by Lame CherryI will address the tax situation rebate in a few, but first wanted to make a statement about Newsbusters as I have been reading about the mean attacks on here by some people and those who come on here to "bust" Newsbusters in their own minds.
Here am I not in the least affiliated with this site except blogging, so with that disclaimer, I would like people to consider how important Newsbusters is and that it is an island in a sea of malevolent rants and profanity AND SHOULD BE APPRECIATED AND NURTURED BY ALL.
I do not know if people consider all the work Mr. Sheffield does on this site. How much effort it takes in Mr. Sheppard, Mr. Huston, Mr. Shepherd, Mr. Finkelstein, Mr. Poor etc.... to take time out daily from their other work and entertain people here. It takes great amounts of God given insight to find stories and then to tell people the flaws in them.
Newsbusters is not in need of anarchists pulling it down and nitpicking perceived fleas off of it's universe of thought compared to the universe of lies which liberals deliberately manipulate daily.
Newsbusters takes great care in being right. It takes great care in crafting poll questions with God's insight to specifically make people think and expose their thinking sometimes to just how much the MSM sways what they do think if even if they are Conservative or Libertarian.
I personally want to thank Newsbusters for putting up with me and my posts which are designed to move people to think out of the box of thought beyond what Mr. Limbaugh does on radio, Mr. O'Reilly does on television and the American Spectator, Peggy Noonan and the WSJ does in print. Most of us have listened to Rush Limbaugh and knows he hints at things he has heard, but can not say. I usually post the most feasable and logical deductions for people to understand what is going on behind the scenes as nothing just happens in the media and it is well crafted out of think tanks meant to move the masses in a 2 war front to accept the Caesar who is chosen.
I would like people to consider how patient Mr. Sheppard is in teaching. How wonderfully subtle and adept Mr. Sheffield is. How cutting edge Mr. Shepherd is and how Mr. Huston is probably the hardest hitting commentator in media. I do not mean to leave any favorite out as each person here is a wonderful mix that makes this site the best in the world. Literally and thoughtfully.
It should not be anyone's intention to be banned. I have been banned from 2 sites for simply posting fact. It is not enjoyable nor something which should be sought out, but liberals and quasi conservative sites are not interested in free discussion where everyone rises to the discussion. Newsbusters expects that from all people here in civil discourse and this is the reflection of the people here.
So a thank you once and awhile to the people here would be fitting and a measure of understanding that this site has to be protected and nurtured by all, because if we loose this site..........well playing on Kos or HuffPo is the alternative and they do not want comments but rants.......and that is not what the bloggers here are about.
Enough of that.
Rebates do nothing, but are designed by those politicians printing and then giving this money away in more debt.......knowing it will be spent in frill areas or fuel areas that will only help cartel members.......makes this always a spike in the economy sham.
Unless money is funnelled into areas which cause production and increased value, it is wasted money and increased debt.
This is why I state the global warming billions should be taken and put into disaster shelters. This would increase homeowners wealth. Increase production of American made products and provide a 5 year boom all Americans would benefit from along with security form hurricanes and communist nukes.
The investment of these billions would increase money flow and supply and thereby increase taxes taken in. It is a win win for the government and Americans.
For all the money these rebates always say is coming. I have never gotten one in my life nor has anyone I know ever got a dollar. This money goes to specific groupings who spend it specifically as intended. Old people, poor people, farmers, self employed people rarely ever see this money and they are usually Conservatives.
America can not keep printing money to plug holes made from printing money America does not have. Shifting our debt from Saudi and Chicom bonds into buying Citibank is a horrid structure the Japanese implosion proved when it was done 20 years ago.
Who in this world wants over 1 billion angry Chicoms having a depression like Japan went through. That is what is being set up and it will mean war as the communists will not allow a revolution, but will march those angry mobs into the west for a war or dump them into the ocean in a failed invasion of America.
While people discuss billions in bandaide fixes, this nation requires economists to rise up to FIX THIS PERMANENTLY by defeating the Rockefeller and Rothschild cartels whose entire purpose is to fragment America in politics to install one of their own, stress people out so much they will accept a united North America........now being championed to be UNITED WITH EUROPE as a union. That means one dictator telling all the sheep how to bleat before they are slaughtered.
Into this is that communist shill nation raper, George Soros now demanding that leadership status be turned over to China and "developing" nations from America..........his soulless purpose like that thug Warren Buffet is to put the flow of power into nations which have dictators and loads of slave labor so they can exploit the Romanian gold etc... and reap bigger profits.
Until the big picture is brought into view and the Rockefellers who push this garbage with their various changlings they put into power so they start squirming, this nation is being set up for fragmented GOP and DNC parties where a Chavez style leader will swoop in and sweep away the competition just like Putin does in Russia.
Look at how excited people are to be getting 500 bucks in a rebate. Just wait until comrade Gore and Bloomberg with Pelosi and Reid backing start handing out paychecks to the millions of immigrants and poor people out of industry coffers...........SOUND FAMILIAR IN FORD BUYING OUT IT'S SKILLED AMERICAN WORKERS AND PLACING UNSKILLED (immigrant) WORKERS IN THEIR PLACES?
This all has to be discussed here as what is discussed here is going to make Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Drudge feature it.......and then the MSM is going to have to start addressing it as it squirms........and then the Rockefeller cartels are going to have to shift and delay what they are pulling.
By God's grace perhaps another Ronald Reagan, this time smarter in putting in safegaurds for free trade so economic rapists like Soros can not come in and bankrupt Brazil, Venezuela and Argentina and turn them into communist socialist regimes backing Putin and Islamocommunists against what is left of America.
None of this is an attack on the GOP, Conservatives nor this site, but we as a people have got to get the big picture and start informing people so this nation understands.
Economic policy is not printing money and more money and giving it away. That is communism.
Economic policy is making a deregulated environment where the small business people create wealth out of nothing, increase the money supply with the creation of products with their hands and people investing and saving TO PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES.
That is what Adam Smith, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Milton Friedman and Ronald Reagan implemented and America prospered.
The Baltic states are implementing American economics and growing at 6 plus percent, poor people are not paying taxes and their states are out of debt.
America requires such a leader now or at least a leader who will employ someone in their cabinet to run this engine as it should who knows economics.
Thank you
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
→ Wow Lame
January 26, 2008 - 14:14 ET by Cool ArrowJust . . . WOW.
♣ a seal
→ Rothschilds and Rockefellers
January 26, 2008 - 14:23 ET by Cool ArrowYou missed the Bilderbergers, the Trilateralists, the Skulls, and the Knights Templar.
♣ a seal
Hey ---->
January 26, 2008 - 14:34 ET by JayTeeLame is a poster extroidinare...I especially like the Graphic vision painted by the "nitpicking perceived fleas off of it's universe of thought" line in the post.
Government sending Tax $$'s back to the People is good...regardless of the Reason....Bush is outsmarting them again, and Congress is voting for a Tax cut...however Temporary.
One month off from federal income taxes is good.
January 26, 2008 - 13:30 ET by R D HelmTwelve months off from federal income taxes would be even better. :-)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Sorry, Noel, I am still
January 26, 2008 - 19:58 ET by Roger the ShrubberSorry, Noel, I am still trying to get past seeing "stimulus" and "package" in the same sentence.
Forgive me.
Plus, the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy turns 10 today, so everybody celebrate by roasting baby seals around a bonfire of styrofoam cups!
-
January 27, 2008 - 00:02 ET by dahliatravers[Hillary] I think the important thing now is to stand as firmly as I can and say that, you know, the president has denied these allegations on all counts, unequivocally.
Uh huh. Gee, how'd that turn out?
Suicide Cult claims 13
January 26, 2008 - 10:29 ET by Cool ArrowSouth Wales body count reaches 13 as kids are found hanged.
Now the good news. It didn't happen in the US where these kids would be arrested for hate crimes.
♣ a seal
If it's a "suicide cult"
January 26, 2008 - 12:10 ET by motherbeltIf it's a "suicide cult" why would anyone be arrested for hate crimes?
Suicide cult
January 26, 2008 - 12:16 ET by Cool ArrowBecause in the US, displaying a noose is a Federal Hate Crime.
The paradox of arresting a dead person was sarcasm.
♣ a seal
I wasn't thinking about the
January 26, 2008 - 15:04 ET by motherbeltI thought I missed something...like friends harrassing and humiliating them until they couldn't take it any more.
Where was a noose displayed?
→ The noose
January 26, 2008 - 15:17 ET by Cool ArrowI'm pretty sure the noose was displayed prominantly around the dead kids' necks.
♣ a seal
tax rebates to stimulate the economy
January 26, 2008 - 10:42 ET by MarvoloThis is just big Gov't intervening in a mess they created. Let the market run it's course and stay out of it!!! We are heading towards Socialism at full speed.
Are we paying for this crap?
January 26, 2008 - 10:47 ET by ricklailHere is the story of an artist who is making a statue of Barboro to be presented in Central Park at the spot where a carriage horse died. The problem is it depicts the great thourghbred lying down with his 4 legs in the air sort of like the horse in Animal House. I can't find if this whacky "artist" got a NEA grant for this. I assume that he did because it is just another example of crap art trying to promote a liberal cause.
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
→ Barbaro
January 26, 2008 - 11:00 ET by Cool Arrow"Tango Uniform Barbaro" I love it.
Of course it's anatomically correct for nighttime frolics. A Maplethorpe suggestion, I think.
♣ a seal
I think it should be across
January 26, 2008 - 11:49 ET by jdubI think it should be across the board. The higher tax brackets have the largest tax burden. They get nothing and people at the bottom(like me) get double, now triple the amount I paid in taxes back. I am only saying this because I have goals of being in a much higher tax bracket one day...I just think it should be fair. People who made as little as $3,000 are going to get $300. Thats 10% of there income. Its not right. Also, I dont know how much of a stimilus package this is going to be I think it is more of a "pay your minimums on your credit cards and HELOCS for a month" package....
And if it's like the last
January 26, 2008 - 12:12 ET by motherbeltAnd if it's like the last time they did this, it's more of an "advance" on your refund or something. Maybe someone has a better memory of how it worked than I do...but I do remember it wasn't exact the windfall it was made out to be.
Udate: Looks like that's been addressed above...I missed it.
"Never mind"......Emily Litella
Election year grandstanding,
January 26, 2008 - 12:15 ET by robert108Election year grandstanding, no doubt. The Dems are economically ignorant, but the Republicans should know better. All the govt can do is to shuffle money from some people to others, and looting the investment class is detrimental to the economy. The best thing govt can do to help the economy is to spend less and collect less in taxes and free up the mobility of capital by deregulation.
It feels like hush money
January 26, 2008 - 12:15 ET by Iowa BoyI feel like I'm being paid off by the local mafiosos to keep quiet. "Here. Take this. I want you should go and buy yourself something nice for your wife."
Just cut the damn taxes! It's not hard to understand. Cut the corporate taxes so companies can hire more people (legally, of course). Cut the gas taxes so we can afford to drive to work. Cut the income taxes even more and make it permanent so we can afford to live the way we believe God guides us to live.
Don't buy me off with money you've taken out of my fellow countrymen's pockets. Talk about literally robbing Peter to pay off Paul.
"That's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
Hell, I'm payin' off my
January 26, 2008 - 12:52 ET by BlazerHell, I'm payin' off my credit card's and then cancelling most of them, and foregoing the bling, so, so much for injecting it back into the economy. Thank's for the welfare check Congress !
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
→ Good Idea, Blazer
January 26, 2008 - 12:57 ET by Cool ArrowDid you notice Hillary and Obama arguing in the last debate about who was for and against the 30% ceiling on credit cards.
Few people realize how simple it is to fall into the CC companies' little trap. It's also a great way to carry legally cooked receivables.
♣ a seal
I have had several of the
January 26, 2008 - 14:04 ET by ricklailI have had several of the guys that work for me saying they would pay bills. Then buy the bling. I am probably going to pay some doctor bills off.
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
Small Business
January 26, 2008 - 12:59 ET by PawpawNIsn't the key to the economic package the fact small businesses will get breaks, which means they can continue to grow, employ more, therefore putting more monies into economy, more people into jobs, more hope for future...
Whatever Happened To...
January 26, 2008 - 13:12 ET by Del DolemonteWhere has the show "Fox News Watch" disappeared to? It used to be on every Saturday night at 6:30, then they moved it to Sat. afternoon. It doesn't seem to be on their schedule this week.
Hey, Del
January 26, 2008 - 16:17 ET by ChaitealoverIt seems to be pre-empted by SC primary coverage this week. According to tvguide.com, it's on at 3:30 pm [PT] next Saturday and the following one.
Chai
“The beauty of our system isn’t that we have the right to vote. No, the nice thing is that people who are too dumb or lazy or uninformed to bother casting a ballot aren’t compelled to vote.” —Burt Prelutsky
Good
January 26, 2008 - 20:16 ET by Del DolemonteI need a weekly laugh from Neal Gobbler. The guy is a laff riot.
Typical government. They
January 26, 2008 - 14:10 ET by Pete WilsonTypical government. They are buying our votes with our money!
Of course, the Dems will scream that the lower income people don't get as much. If this is a tax rebate, then those who pay no taxes should not get any. Any rebate should be based on tax liability in 2006, which would be the latest information available. of course, that would be too time consuming to gather that information.
This is just a bad plan altogether, in my opinion.
Besides, I have seen no indication that the US economy is going into recession, by standards which have been used in the past, such as 2 quarters in sucession with declining GDP. This has ballooned from the "sub-prime crisis". Which, by my standards is no crisis. Too many lenders lent too much money on real estate that did not appreciate to borrowers who did not qualify for such loans. The government, using taxpayer dollars, has no place in the "crisis".
There, thats my two cents worth.
Pete
ONE HOLE WHERE THE MONEY GOES
January 26, 2008 - 14:14 ET by reelman46EARMARK DANCING: WHY REPUBS HAVE LOST CRED
By Jackie Kucinich THE HILL, Posted: 01/25/08
WHITE SULPHUR SPRINGS, W.Va. – House Republicans stopped short of
imposing a yearlong moratorium on their earmarks Friday and instead
called on Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to establish a bipartisan
panel to work on reducing “pork-barrel spending.”
After debating earmark reform during their annual retreat at The
Greenbrier resort, GOP leaders in the lower chamber sent a letter to
Pelosi stating that “House Republicans believe that the earmark system
should be brought to an immediate halt, and a bipartisan select
committee should be immediately be established for the purpose of
identifying ways to bring fundamental change to the way in which
Washington spends taxpayers’ money.”
But House Republicans are not ready to ban their own earmarks — at least not until Democrats agree to do the same.
CRAWFISH NOTE: So you only do the right thing IF
democrats agree to do it also? Since when? Since when are democrats,
who refused ethics reform by rejecting the auto-resignation for an
indictment, going to do anything the least bit ethical?
The proper way to get back voter confidence is to pass it for your
Party then go to the people with the step you took… challenge the
democrats to match that higher standard and hammer them at each and
every campaign for their refusal to do so. This Pelosi committee crap
will again be a thorn instead of a feather. “Reducing” is not
“eliminating” the vote-buying with our taxes. I don’t get the strategy.
You deal with sleazeballs and act like they are trustworthy. Letting
those who detest you determine your principles. Its “no earmarks”
Beavis. Dahhh.
(translation: “Stupid is as stupid does”…Forrest Gump)
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
Reelman that aint' gonna work
January 26, 2008 - 14:43 ET by JayTeeAs Crawfish note says on stopping Earmarks, Republicans won't go first.. "So you only do the right thing IF democrats agree to do it also?" and if Republicans would cancel Earmarkds without any rules changes "challenge the democrats to match that higher standard"
First of all, the Dems have control of the MSM airways (Seen Bill Clinton the non-candidate all Week?) and any HIGHROAD taken by the Republicans would go unreported and out of sight...only BAD news sells and gets air time.
Plus if the Democratic Congress person returns to California with "Local Pork", he gets another unfair advantage in the next Election....as his Porkers give him money and the locals appreciate the Fed $$$'s pouring in.
Given a level playing field your "Highroad" go it alone suggestion might work. But it is not an Un-biased world we live in....You go first sometimes is a dis-advantage compared to a "we go Together" approach to ear Marks.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Senate is going against the stimulus as is, count on it
January 26, 2008 - 14:44 ET by JayTeeIf you believe in Smaller Government, less Taxes, giving $$$'s to people and not the Government, then you have to be supportive of the Stimulis, Recession or not, it's money to you and not to the Government.
The Senate should approve the Stimulus as is, but I don't think it's gonna happen. The Senate is going to be on the FRONT ROW of delaying the Stimulus, and the 3 Senators running as Presidential Candidates are going to get some Guilt by association. Hopefully Obama and Co. can vote "Present" on this one.
With a 6 yr. election cylce in the Senate, vs. Congress, I don't think the Senators are in touch with real Americans, And I think Real Americans are realizing this. IT's the DC Bubble times 6 years, out touch, out of sight, out of Mind.
La Raza Wins One....
January 26, 2008 - 16:22 ET by motherbeltAn embattled KC Parks Board member has been harrassed into resignation because of her connection to the Minutemen.
In a statement faxed to area media outlets, including The Kansas City Star, Semler writes “ENOUGH, I am resigning.” In the letter she cites repeated and ongoing personal attacks against her character as a reason, and blasts her most vocal opponents and levels her own criticisms at Kansas City Police Chief Jim Corwin and unnamed City Council members, saying some on the council have made “vicious, false and irresponsible claims about me.”
In the KC Star article, La Raza is labeled as simply "a monority organization" but the Minutement are described as "a divisive group that takes a hardline stance on immigration issues."
You mean they didn't add
January 26, 2008 - 22:51 ET by Gary P JacksonYou mean they didn't add that La Raza literally means "the race"?
I'm shock, shocked!
Let me get this straight
January 26, 2008 - 16:22 ET by ChaitealoverThe US gov't borrows money from China, passes it around to US residents, who go to Wal*Mart and spend it on something made in China.
And this helps the American economy how?
Chai
“The beauty of our system isn’t that we have the right to vote. No, the nice thing is that people who are too dumb or lazy or uninformed to bother casting a ballot aren’t compelled to vote.” —Burt Prelutsky
It's all Chinese to
January 26, 2008 - 20:18 ET by Jack BauerIt's all Chinese to me.
The Truth about John McCain
January 26, 2008 - 19:28 ET by PopularTechJohn McCain: The Democrats' Favorite Republican (Video) (1min)
"I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy." - John McCain
McCain's Age (Townhall)
Age: 71
- McCain graduated 894th out of 899 in his class at the United States Naval Academy
Betrayal, deceit, corruption and John McCain (The U.S. Veteran Dispatch)
"While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 - just a month after dumping his crippled wife and securing a divorce."
John McCain: The Geraldo Rivera Republican (Human Events)
McCain: I'll Respect Hillary (NewsMax)
The Real McCain Record (National Review Online)
Abortion:
John McCain Supports Embryonic Stem Cell Research (Audio)
McCain Softens Abortion Stand (The Washington Post)
"But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations." - John McCain
Anger Issues:
Andy Card: I Have Seen John McCain's Anger (NewsMax)
John McCain: I Have Anger Issues (NewsMax)
John McCain's Temper Preceded Vietnam (NewsMax)
McCain Goes Nuts Near Senate Floor (NewsMax)
McCain's Out-of-Control Anger: Does He Have the Temperament to Be President? (NewsMax)
Vanity Fair Tiptoes Around McCain's Explosive Temper (NewsMax)
Endorsements:
Juan Hernandez, Open borders Advocate Endorses McCain (HotAir)
Republicans for Al Gore (Environmental Protection) Endorses McCain (Press Release)
The New York Times Endorses John McCain and Clinton (Reuters)
Foreign Policy:
McCain falls asleep during the State of the Union Address (Video)
McCain: No 'Torture' for 9/11 Mastermind (NewsMax)
McCain to Close Gitmo: "The first day I am President" (Video)
McCain: Torture Worked on Me (NewsMax)
Global Warming:
McCain and Lieberman Push for New Anti-Global Warming Legislation (The National Center for Public Policy Research)
Senators McCain and Lieberman Propose Energy Tax (The National Center for Public Policy Research)
"No drilling in ANWR, nor in the Everglades, nor off the coast of Florida... To think that drilling in ANWR is the solution to our incredible energy needs is frankly, is not keeping in the reality of what's there, and what it would take to get it out" - John McCain
"I always have a glass of ethanol before breakfast every morning" - John McCain
Illegal Immigration:
John McCain gets a 'D' on his Immigration Voting Report Card (Americans for Better Immigration)
- McCain favors business lobbyists’ desires for foreign workers vs. protecting American workers’ wages and jobs
- McCain’s hopes of giving millions amnesty will saddle American taxpayers with huge costs of $20,000 per illegal per year
- McCain has taken the pro-amnesty position in nearly two dozen votes
- McCain only promises to make 2 million of the 12-20 million illegal aliens go home
John McCain Praises Pro-illegal Protests (NewsMax)
McCain aide touts 'Mexico first' policy (WorldNetDaily)
McCain: "Americans Will Not Pick Lettuce for $50 an Hour" (AFL-CIO)
McCain called plan 'amnesty' in 2003 (WorldNetDaily)
"I think we can set up a program where amnesty is extended to a certain number of people, Amnesty has to be an important part..." - John McCain, 2003
McCain: U.S. Should Welcome Illegal Immigrants (FOXNews)
McCain Voted For Illegal Immigrants To Collect Social Security (UC Daily News)
Michigan Crowd Boos McCain On Illegal Immigration (Video) (1min)
Open borders advocate Juan Hernandez has joined the McCain campaign (HotAir)
U.S. Border Patrol Agents Angry with McCain (NewsMax)
Marriage:
McCain: Same-sex marriage ban is un-Republican (CNN)
Taxes:
"I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated." - John McCain
McCain: For and Against Tax Cuts (Video)
McCain Boasts That He Voted Against The Bush Tax Cuts (Video)
McCain Would Vote Against Tax Cuts Again (The Club for Growth)
- McCain sponsored and voted for an enormous 282% tax increase on cigarettes in 1998
- McCain was one of only two Republican to vote against the $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001
- McCain was one of only two Republicans to twice vote against permanent repeal of the death tax in 2002
- McCain was one of only three Republican to twice vote against the $350 billion tax cut in 2003
McCain’s Costly Tax on Energy (National Review Online)
- The EPA Estimates Sen. McCain's Plan Would Hike Gas Taxes By 68 Cents Per Gallon
- The EPA Estimates Sen. McCain's Plan Would Reduce United States GDP By As Much As $5.2 Trillion
McCain Rejects Anti-Tax Pledge (CNSNews)
Veterans:
McCain Can't Buy His Way Out of Votes Against Funding for Veterans
- McCain Voted Against $19 Billion for Military Hospitals
- McCain Voted Against Amendment to Provide $2.8 Billion For Veterans' Medical Care
- McCain Voted Against 2005 Amendment to Provide Guaranteed Funding Stream for Veterans' Health Care
- McCain Voted Against Establishing $1 Billion Trust Fund to Provide Improvements to Military and Veterans' Health Facilities
- McCain Voted Against Adding $1.5 billion to Veterans' Medical Services in FY 2007 by Closing Corporate Tax Loopholes
- McCain Voted Against Mandatory Funding of $6.9 Billion in FY 2007 and $104 Billion Over Five Years for Veterans' Health Care
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
You keep posting these
January 26, 2008 - 20:13 ET by Jack BauerYou keep posting these incredibly long anti-McCain links. Fair enough.
But is ANYONE on NB actually supporting him? Can't say I've noticed a surge of posts here for him. So what's the point?
Why don't you post some reasoned positives for the person you are supporting.
Maybe it's just me, but isn't this getting boring and repetitive.
I'm still trying to figure
January 26, 2008 - 20:19 ET by tracheostomyI'm still trying to figure out exactly who he's supporting.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
we know his mom is behind
January 28, 2008 - 14:51 ET by TruthMongerwe know his mom is behind him - pretty sure
At least 264 Readers Support McCain
January 26, 2008 - 20:41 ET by PopularTechYou might want to follow the polls closer here as at least 264 readers support McCain as well as Keith in another post.
I have stated over and over I supported Hunter, Tancredo, Romney, Thompson and Rudy vs Hillary. Hunter has been a disappointment lying about Romney, Tancredo endorsed Romney, Thompson dropped out so that leaves Romney and Rudy. Romney is better on Illegal Aliens so he is my first pick of who is left.
And I repeat this is not for those who read this everyday.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Just want to make one thing
January 26, 2008 - 22:23 ET by zfJust want to make one thing clear: Warren Buffett and George Soros are NOT capitalists. I say this because even some conservatives on here are calling them such and using somewhat socialistic rhetoric when attacking them, i.e. ("billionaires can do whatever they want and have too much power," "those capitalists will do anything for a buck", "they are only socialists until someone steps in to take their precious money from their greedy hands," are examples of some similar comments made on here.
Those two are at heart socialists or what I call "pseudo-capitalists" they use capitalism like a disposable camera, they use it enough to help them in their dreams and aspirations but are determined to destroy it and throw it away because it has aspects they have falsely deemed bad. A pagan can go to a Baptist church every day, but that does not make him a Christian.
A real capitalists does not use government power to achieve his success (unlike those two), a real capitalist doesn't expose socialist ideas (like those two), a real capitalist doesn't advocate punishing wealth and success (like those two) and a real capitalist does not condemn real capitalists for not agreeing with their socialistic tendencies (again, unlike those two.)
I understand hundreds of years of "high" and "pop" culture attacking the rich and successful is going to rub off even on those sympathetic to free markets, but the socialist inspired/sounding rhetoric has got to stop.
And remember, there are wealthy capitalists out there who are conservative (for instance Truett Cathy and Bob Murray), but they don't get close to the same attention the Soros and Buffets of the world get (unless something bad happens involving them, of course), and they also tend to be much more reserved and not interested in making government sponsored sweeping social changes and therefore stay out of the limelight.
So please, folks, keep all this in mind when the sordid exploits of Soros and Buffett and Gates are splashed all over the newspapers and you are preparing to react. Attack the individuals, not the mentality and ethos reflected in their wealth and success, they abandon that mentality and ethics when their left-wing politics get in the way.
Exposing the unFair Tax
January 27, 2008 - 04:34 ET by PopularTechWhen I originally heard about this on some Talk Radio shows and later on Hannity it sounded like a dumb idea, replace the income tax with a sales tax and the cost of goods will stay the same due to this "hidden" embedded tax... that will be magically swapped for the 23% (really 30%+ embedded sales tax) un huh. Sorry but I don't believe in wishful thinking. Then I see all the non-economic lower tier candidates endorse it. For naive people it sounds great no more IRS! Until you realize this only benefits those making over $200,000 who do not have to worry about purchasing price since their main concern is the income tax. People in lower tax backets especially after deductions either pay no income tax or a ridiculously low amount. Now they will have effectively the same income tax situation but pay a ridiculous price for goods and services. Fair? I don't think so and the Fair Tax Solution? Send them a welfare check each month, ooops I mean prebate check. Aren't we trying to get rid of the welfare state not create the largest one in history? This is just a bad, bad, bad idea. There is a reason Neal Boortz, Mike Huckabee and Chuck Norris are endorsing it and not Economists. Get the Facts the unFair Tax is not a solution and Neal Boortz is not going to save you from the IRS.
Oh wait RON PAUL WILL!!! RON PAUL!!! RON PAUL!!! RON PAUL!!! RON PAUL!!! BILDERBERG!!! NEW WORLD ORDER!!! RON PAUL!!! Yeeeee Haaaa!!!! - Give me a break.
Fair Tax, Flawed Tax (The Wall Street Journal)
Huck's Daft Tax Plan (National Review Online)
Just how fair is the 'FairTax'? (Money Magazine)
Unspinning the FairTax (FactCheck.org)
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
unFair Tax
January 27, 2008 - 05:38 ET by Cool ArrowSo it's not true that the purchase of any given product already includes all the taxes paid by the manufacturer and its employees?
I'm pretty sure the business sector does pass these costs along to the consumer.
I think the proposed "Fair Tax" seems a little low (what? 23%). But I don't see that it isn't workable at some rate.
♣ a seal
Depending on the volume of
January 27, 2008 - 06:19 ET by Gary P JacksonDepending on the volume of sales a company has, and the price of those items, the embedded tax may be very little. Also, don't forget local taxes paid can be deducted from the income tax, up to a point. The fair tax will kill that.
Of course, in some states, with a statewide sales tax, only the ultimate purchaser pays any tax, the sales tax on the retail purchase. I wrote about this in yesterday's open thread. But again, say I own a garage, and you want me to fix your car. I have a state tax ID, so when I buy the part from the local O'Reilly's or Advanced Auto Parts, they have my ID on file, and I buy that part tax exempt, because I'm going to resell it. So, I do not have any built in tax to pass along. When you pick your car up, you will pay me for the work, and the sales tax on it.
Nothing different with the "fair tax", except you will have to pay more money out of your pocket, because not only will you pay me the 8.75 percent state and local sales tax, you will also have to cough up and additional 25, 35, or whatever, percent on top of the cost of the parts and my labor. You add that sort of thing to everything you buy, and you will see real quickly that you will pay far more in sales tax in a year, than you do in income tax now.
I'm sure the geniuses that thought this thing up, never thought about what this will do to the sales of anything more expensive than a Big Mac! Here in Texas, the sales tax rate on an automobile is a bit less than the regular sales tax.
Now, under their deal, you'll still pay 6.25 percent Texas sales tax, and then add another 25, 35, or whatever percent on top of that! A $25,000 dollar car, with the state sales tax, and 25 percent national sales tax will cost you an additional $7812.50! $6250 of that would be the national tax
Here's some more of my problems with the fair tax: These people have not thought it out. Why spend what will probably be billions, to print and ship "pre-bate" checks monthly to 100's of millions of folks?
Since Huckster and the rest who pushing this headache on the unsuspecting public are saying the pre-bate is to pay you back for the tax you paid on necessary items like food, why just not tax these items in the first place?
In Texas, many items are tax exempt, like food. Now you go to McDonald's and eat, you pay tax. But if you go to the grocery store, everything you buy that you can eat or drink, is tax exempt. Now if the store has a deli, taxes may be involved.
Here's my other problem. Right now, it's big news if the government is gonna raise your income tax. People think "tea party" pretty quickly. But with a sales tax, you could raise it a penny or so (on the dollar) every year or two, and no one would even notice. Or you could get bold and raise it 4 or 5 cents at a time.
As someone who sold things "for the price of a Coke a month", I know just how easy it would be to put a slick sell job on the public. By the time you realize it, instead of paying say 25 percent you're paying 40 percent, it'll be too late.
Of course it goes without saying that it would take two Constitutional Amendments. One repealing the 16th and a new one instating the sales tax. Good luck with that.
Finally, this tax would be very good for the government. Right now we have millions of people: Illegals, welfare recipients, and just plain old folk who work a second job off the books. All of these people, and more, pay no income tax on that money, because they get paid in cash.
The sales tax will fix that. There will be no such thing as "under the table money". The unintended consequences of all of this is simple to figure out. Now that millions of illegals are paying their far share in taxes, and adding millions, if not billions of tax dollars to the government, there will be ZERO incentive to round 'em up and send them home. In fact, I have a feeling you would see the border be more open than it is. Why not let another 50 or 100 million more illegals come over? It would just be more money in the government coffers! How long before all of the illegals get to vote, and have all of the rights and privileges we now enjoy? Don't think for a minute that a John McCain, or any dim wouldn't let it happen.
On the surface, this fair tax sounds like the deal of the century, but as they say, caveat emptor.
Just permanently lower income taxes. Make sure we have the lowest corporate taxes in the world, not the highest. And simplify the tax code to where an individual with normal deductions only needs one form to fill out, and the entire instructs are on a few pages, rather than a book that rivals War and Peace!
Exactly
January 27, 2008 - 07:40 ET by PopularTechWhat you said makes perfect sense especially about illegals.
Funny this Tax idea is coming from the Huckster who:
- Publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002 [in Arkansas]
Naive people did not pick up on him in the debates talking about how he only raised the Sales Tax 1 Penny. That is liberal propaganda for economic illiterates who cannot comprehend that a tax rate change via a percentage scales the larger the purchase. I swear we have millions in this country who cannot do basic math.
If you read the articles I linked, everyone who has evaluated this have set the real federal rate being 30% not 23% but with adding local sales tax around 36% on average with a realistic rate much higher of 49% and spiraling way up with tax evasion. Which means they would want to move to outlaw anything but electronic transactions to prevent evasion. <- Which is a point I just realized.
The Prebate Checks would handicap the not rich (-$200,000) to only buying what the government thinks they need. Great Solution here with the unFair Tax!
Gary, your solution is music to my ears:
"Just permanently lower income taxes. Make sure we have the lowest corporate taxes in the world, not the highest. And simplify the tax code to where an individual with normal deductions only needs one form to fill out, and the entire instructs are on a few pages, rather than a book that rivals War and Peace"
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
You know, I'm probably the
January 27, 2008 - 08:37 ET by Gary P JacksonYou know, I'm probably the dumbest guy that reads and comments here, but plain old common sense says this "fair tax" is not what it is advertised as.
Huckabee has reeled in the illiterate on this deal, but if anybody thinks about it, it is exactly what you do not want.
Honestly, taxes are something we will always pay. I don't mind them generally. Although, I get bent when the government wastes money. But we need a good military, and there are other things we need the government for. But this fair tax is very troubling.
Part of the Tax Scam
January 27, 2008 - 09:09 ET by PopularTechMost of these people do not even know what Tax Rate they are at or what the real rate is after deductibles. They just hear from all those in the highest bracket ($175,000+) stating BS about having to work until April 30th AKA Tax Freedom Day! Yeah for those making that much. I hear clueless people repeating this not realizing their personal Tax Freedom Day is probably in February. The middle class will NOT benefit from the unFair Tax only the rich will. What we need is a true income tax cut across the board with the largest portion focused on the middle class. Anyone below $100,000 should be dropped to a 10% income tax rate. Under the poverty level 0%.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
PopTech,
January 28, 2008 - 15:20 ET by R D HelmIf the Fair Tax plan is implemented, many people currently living at the poverty level (and who are willing to work) will quickly begin climbing out of it. And they will do so far faster than they will under our current system.
If they do not climb out, it will not be due to the lack of jobs.
Low income people are the biggest winners under this plan.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Poptech...you are wrong
January 28, 2008 - 15:22 ET by LionKingA National Sales Tax is far better than any form of income tax. Commodities should be exempt, of course. Our economy is based on consumerism. Why not increase EVERYONE's disposable income?
NO NATION HAS EVER BEEN TAXED INTO PROSPERITY.
Gary, you are hurting my
January 27, 2008 - 10:04 ET by Roger the ShrubberGary, you are hurting my feelings, since we've been on the same wavelength for the past few days.... Now I feel dumb, too!
I know you are smarter than
January 28, 2008 - 02:26 ET by Gary P JacksonI know you are smarter than I am! But I am enjoying tearing this fair tax apart!
Gary,
January 28, 2008 - 15:29 ET by R D HelmAlso, don't forget local taxes paid can be deducted from the income tax, up to a point. The fair tax will kill that.
Exactly, as there will be no more federal income tax. Nor will there be the hideos cost of compliance on the part of individuals and corporations. These costs are killing this country economically. Perhaps you think this country is creating enough jobs under the current system?
Right now, it's big news if the government is gonna raise your income
tax. People think "tea party" pretty quickly. But with a sales tax, you
could raise it a penny or so (on the dollar) every year or two, and no
one would even notice. Or you could get bold and raise it 4 or 5 cents
at a time.
Nonsense. Government hikes taxes (and fees) all the time, and most people haven't a clue they are doing it. I call them sneak-a-taxes. Actually, most people in this country have no clue what they are currently paying in federal income taxes. If they did, the "tea party" you refer to would have happened a long time ago. If you tried to raise the Fair Tax rate, even a little, everybody is going to know about it the very next time they make a purchase.
Of course it goes without saying that it would take two Constitutional
Amendments. One repealing the 16th and a new one instating the sales
tax. Good luck with that.
I do not know where you get that from, as it is not true. It would only require the repeal of the current 16th Amendment.
Right now we have millions of people: Illegals, welfare recipients, and
just plain old folk who work a second job off the books. All of these
people, and more, pay no income tax on that money, because they get
paid in cash.
That is true. And guess who it is that is currently making up the difference for them? You and me are, that is who. Perhaps you like having the government forcing you to continue paying their taxes. Apparently you do not mind paying them. I do.
We currently have an underground economy. We will probably have one if the Fair Tax is implemented. What will be different will be that the federal taxes thaey are not paying and that we are currently having to make up for, will be paid by them at the cash register when they make their next purchase.
As for illegal aliens, all you have to do is start prosecuting employers who hire them, and the illegals will start to leave. It is just that simple.
Just permanently lower income taxes. Make sure we have the lowest
corporate taxes in the world, not the highest. And simplify the tax
code to where an individual with normal deductions only needs one form
to fill out, and the entire instructs are on a few pages, rather than a
book that rivals War and Peace!
Under the Fair Tax, there are no forms to fill out. Ever. No IRS to deal with. Nor is there any more snooping into our personal finances by the federal governement. No more progressively punishing productive Americans. Perhaps you prefer to continue to allow the government to punish productivity. I do not.
_______________________________________
The only losers under the Fair Tax plan are people who wish to maintain the status-quo and would rather see businesses, both large and small, continuing spending hundreds of billions of dollars each year to comply with an out-of-date, economy-killing tax code, instead of spending that money expanding their businesses and creating jobs.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Pop Tech,
January 28, 2008 - 14:42 ET by R D HelmThere is a reason Neal Boortz, Mike Huckabee and Chuck Norris are endorsing it and not Economists.
Wrong. The Fair Tax plan was actually devised by economists. It is the most researched and studied tax plan ever proposed.
As for your complaining that the prebate is simply a welfare payment, what do you consider the Earned Income Tax Credit to be? This is mostly paid even to those who pay no, or very little, federal income tax. Under the current tax system, which you apparently support, this will never change.
As for the 12 to 13 billion dollars that is currently being kept offshore due to our confiscatory tax rates, wouldn't you like to see a large percentage of that money start returning to this country and creating jobs here, or see it remaining offshore and creating jobs in other countries, like communist China. Countries that allow their production to continue to move elsewhere do not stay free for very long.
We are no exception.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe