For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Thompson drops presidential bid.
What does this mean for the race? Who benefits and who loses? Who will Fred endorse, if anyone?
As you might imagine, the drivebys think he'll support -- wait for it! -- McCain:
In the statement, Thompson did not say whether he would endorse any of his former rivals. He was one of a handful of members of Congress who supported Arizona Sen. John McCain in 2000 in his unsuccessful race against George W. Bush for the party nomination.
Thoughts?



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Romney/Thompson in '08.I
January 23, 2008 - 09:58 ET by Hero SquadRomney/Thompson in '08.
"Rompson"
I want my "I'm with Fred" bumper sticker to still mean something important this year.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I am so crushed about Fred
January 23, 2008 - 10:29 ET by tracyz20I am so crushed about Fred dropping out and am hanging on in the hope that Mitt will be nominated and pick Fred as running mate. Glad to see others have the same thought.
Thompson's a good guy, and I
January 23, 2008 - 14:47 ET by motherbeltThompson's a good guy, and I think he would make a great Veep. But he has only himself to blame. He waited too long...3 months gain on fundraising is a lifetime and a fortune, in politics. Thompson never had a chance...it was impossible to catch up.
and it does... Rompson is
January 23, 2008 - 15:09 ET by TruthMongerand it does...
Rompson is our best option...
The key will be whoever the traitorous MSM attacks most...
That will be the best individual to save our nation:)
Romney
January 23, 2008 - 10:01 ET by Missouri ConservativeIf any of the (albeit non-scientific) many online polls that I've seen are accurate, an overwhelming amount of Thompson's support will go to Romney.
"women and minorities hardest hit"
Thompson
January 23, 2008 - 10:04 ET by iveseenitallThompson for V.P.!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I'm in for Rhompson!
January 23, 2008 - 10:20 ET by OldSailor88Now that I can't vote for him as President, I would be happy to vote for him as VP. I think that he would temper some of Romney's liberal side. The two of them together actually make a better Conservative than they do alone.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
Rohmpson has my vote. My
January 23, 2008 - 10:29 ET by Dan The Man 2Rohmpson has my vote. My flag will fly at half staff for the rest of the day.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Rompson, Rhompson,
January 23, 2008 - 11:04 ET by Hero SquadBut first, we've got to come up with a consistent spelling of our hoped merger...
Rompson
Rhompson
Rohmpson
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
But there's talk that he
January 23, 2008 - 14:53 ET by motherbeltBut there's talk that he will endorse McCain because they have been friends for a long time....
→ H. Ledger dead
January 23, 2008 - 10:07 ET by Cool ArrowGuess he won't be jackin' Gyllenhaal in the sequel.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Hi Cool Arrow, Rip Van
January 23, 2008 - 11:09 ET by KarmaHi Cool Arrow, Rip Van Winkle here. Just who was this Ledger guy? I heard his name for the first time yesterday, and have heard it hundreds of times since. Was he some kind of super-being?
→ Heath Ledger
January 23, 2008 - 11:14 ET by Cool ArrowHe was one of the gay caballeros in Brokeback Mountain, and Mel Gibson's oldest son in "the Patriot"
A few other movies.
I was totally shocked to
January 23, 2008 - 12:02 ET by balboaI was totally shocked to hear about this. Apparently they're not ruling out an accidental overdose.
Plus he's got the new Batman movie coming out. It's too bad.
→ Ledger
January 23, 2008 - 12:05 ET by Cool ArrowHe was my daughter's first crush in "The Patriot"
He was a genuine Errol Flynn in "Knights Tale".
He was very good in both
January 23, 2008 - 14:55 ET by motherbeltHe was very good in both movies. It's too bad, he probably had a great career ahead of him.
I sent the article to my daughter at college, she was a big fan...she sent me back a pic of a friend of hers taken standing with him; she ran into him somewhere and he agreed to have a pic taken with her..which was really nice of him.
Gyllenhaal's character was killed.
January 23, 2008 - 11:54 ET by SyriusCA,
FYI- Jake Gyllenhaal's character 'Jack Twist' was killed at the end of Brokeback Mountain.
It's sad he died. Heath is survived by his 2 yr old daughter.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius, your duel nature?
January 23, 2008 - 11:59 ET by vrwc13You have sympathy for a 2 year old child losing her dad, but none for 3,000 children losing their lives today?
v
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
Please review my thoughts from yesterday...
January 23, 2008 - 12:25 ET by Syriusv,
I do have sympathy for Heath's daughter, I'm sure she'll be supported.
It always saddens me to hear of those who have decided they had no other choice but to end their pregnancies by abortion. Also, it saddens me to hear- how many families are in poverty, the amount of spousal & child abuse that exists, the non-existent support of the disenfranchised, the rates of divorce, tax-cuts for the rich with no relief for the middle class, the indebtedness to other nations, the borrowing of our children's future, the dead and wounded of the Iraqi War, etc. Where do you want me stop?
To reiterate...
It's a woman's choice, a man's responsibility.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
"had no other choice"ah,
January 23, 2008 - 15:06 ET by TruthMonger"had no other choice"
ah, the mantra's we must recite to asuage ourselves:)...
→ StumpBroke Mountain
January 23, 2008 - 12:00 ET by Cool ArrowSorry, didn't see the movie.
Didn't pay to see Brokeback..they had Gay horses in the movie
January 23, 2008 - 12:34 ET by JayTeewanna know what you Feed Gay Horses ? ?
(voice of Gay Guy greeting another Gay guy, showing limp wrist)
Heeyyyy ! !
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Woww...
January 23, 2008 - 12:40 ET by SyriusJT,
You, too? You know what they say about homophobes???
When are you coming out of the closet?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
same deal with
January 23, 2008 - 12:47 ET by TruthMongersame deal with fundieophobes:)
correction syrius.......
January 23, 2008 - 13:41 ET by JayTeeThat would be Equinehomophobia Dufus....... and I would be coming out of the Stall, not the Tack Closet.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Don't like the gay flicks? Netflix has it available.
January 23, 2008 - 12:37 ET by SyriusCoolA,
I never took you for a homophobe.
I'm learning a lot about this site.
A group of rightwing critics with no understanding of the material for what they critique. I'm glad to be on the outside looking in...so to speak.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
→ Syrius
January 23, 2008 - 12:41 ET by Cool ArrowNever said I was afraid of them.
I suppose since you wrote
January 23, 2008 - 12:54 ET by Dan The Man 2I suppose since you wrote this "A group of rightwing critics with no understanding of the material for what they critique" you have intimate understanding?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Got that right...
January 23, 2008 - 13:08 ET by Syrius...I should have said leftwing critics. Another Chris Farley moment as I hit my head, "stupid, stupid,..." Oh well, I'll admit my mistake...and my lumps! Pile on.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Curious. If you make a joke
January 23, 2008 - 13:01 ET by Hero SquadCurious. If you make a joke about conservatives at Newsbusters, does that mean you fear conservatives?
Or does the whole "fear" thing only apply when jokes are made in reference to homosexuals.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
HS
January 23, 2008 - 20:31 ET by Noel SheppardHS,
Nicely asked, and unanswered. Isnt' that telling?
So, are you suggesting that he's a conservaphobe? :-) ns
And, of course, a Christophobe
January 23, 2008 - 20:40 ET by RJFrom the early days of NewsBusters. ;^)
Sorry, I didn't answer as I was deflecting blows...
January 24, 2008 - 09:25 ET by Syrius...from the masses below. The amount of anti-gay sentiment on this site is par for the course when it comes to a right wing, radical agenda. When the anti-gay radical crowd is exposed, they pucker up and tout how tolerant they are towards gays or how they have gay friends or how they work with them with no problems. I don't have a problem with a good joke aimed at me as long as you can take one aimed at you.
I'm not a conserva-phobe more like a BORG-a-phobe. I fear the Brotherhood Of Rightwing Garbage or becoming assimilated as one of its members. Don't touch me...deflecting blows...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
→ Syrius
January 24, 2008 - 09:34 ET by Cool ArrowCut your losses and move on. You injected at least three gay jokes into this thread, and you want to hold the moral high ground?
Just sit on your stool in the corner.
More like 4...
January 24, 2008 - 09:59 ET by Syrius...and what moral high ground? I'm in the gutter with at least 7 to 8 posters attacking me. Yeah, that's fair and balanced. The one poster I haven't seen is PopTech with all his 'sodomite' speak. Oh, well...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
So Syrius
January 23, 2008 - 13:04 ET by candanceI'm assuming you watch all the right wing movies out there (Passion of the Christ, One Night with the King, Nativity Story) before passing judgement?
Passion of the Christ...to be honest...
January 23, 2008 - 13:13 ET by Syrius...was an absolute 'snuff' film. If you enjoyed it. then you are a sick sadist. Give me a list & I'll watch 'em. Will you watch my list?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
I was under the impression
January 23, 2008 - 13:19 ET by Hero SquadI was under the impression that "snuff" films are real and not staged.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Notice the quotation marks...
January 23, 2008 - 13:34 ET by SyriusYou should show it to a bunch of kids & get their reaction. I know I wouldn't.
S
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
That still wouldn't make it
January 23, 2008 - 14:41 ET by Hero SquadThat still wouldn't make it a snuff film.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
check out a local catechism
January 23, 2008 - 15:11 ET by TruthMongercheck out a local catechism class - they turn out just fine...
Syrius
January 24, 2008 - 08:50 ET by Noel SheppardSyrius,
Are you joking?
Are you serious? A realistic portrayal of Christ's final days is a snuff film? And those that enjoyed it are sadists?
Let me correct you: the level of ignorance on display with such a comment is a snuff film, and anyone that would post it is a sadist!
And, I'm being kind!
I don't know who you are, but you should be ashamed of yourself for posting such comments here. There have been lots of depictions of Christ's final days on Earth in literature and movies. Are they all snuff films? Are all interested in reading or watching them sadists?
Honestly, this is one of the most absurd comments ever posted here, and if you want to be taken seriously by me in the future, you might want to apologize for airing such drivel. ns
Well said!
January 24, 2008 - 08:58 ET by Hero SquadWell said!
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Noel...
January 24, 2008 - 09:48 ET by Syrius...to be kind?
Are you serious? A realistic portrayal of Christ's final days is a snuff film? And those that enjoyed it are sadists?
Let me correct you: the level of ignorance on display with such a
comment is a snuff film, and anyone that would post it is a sadist!
I'll point you to a more poignant review...by David Edelstein...
"You're thinking there must be something to The Passion of the Christ besides watching a man tortured to death, right? Actually, no: This is a two-hour-and-six-minute snuff movie—The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre—that
thinks it's an act of faith. For Gibson, Jesus is defined not by his
teachings in life—by his message of mercy, social justice, and
self-abnegation, some of it rooted in the Jewish Torah, much of it
defiantly personal—but by the manner of his execution.
That
doesn't exactly put him outside the mainstream: The idea that Jesus
died for the sins of mankind is one of the central tenets of Christian
faith. But Gibson has chosen those sections of the Gospels (especially
the Gospel of Matthew) that reflect the tension between Jews and
Christians 50 years after the crucifixion, when the new religion's
proselytizers were trying to convert, rather than incite, the Roman
authorities. This is the sort of passion play that makes people mad.
Gibson
uses every weapon in his cinematic arsenal to drive home the agony of
those last dozen hours. While his mother and Mary Magdalene watch,
Jesus is lashed until his entire body is covered in bloody
crisscrossing canals. When he rises, amazing the Roman soldiers with
his stamina, they go for the scourges, which rip and puncture his flesh
in slow motion—all while the Romans and the Jews cackle wildly.
Carrying his cross, he falls again and again in slow motion on his
swollen, battered body while the soundtrack reverberates with heavy,
Dolby-ized thuds. It is almost a relief when the spikes are driven into
his hands and feet—at least it means that his pain is almost over.
What
does this protracted exercise in sadomasochism have to do with
Christian faith? I'm asking; I don't know. Gibson's revenge movies end
with payback—or, in Braveheart, the promise of payback to
come. When Jesus is resurrected, his expression is hard, and, as he
moves toward the entrance to his tomb, the camera lingers on a round
hole in his hand that goes all the way through. Gibson's Jesus reminded
me of the Terminator—he could be the Christianator—heading out into the
world to spread the bloody news. Next stop: the Crusades."-quoted from David Edelstein http://www.slate.com...
If you enjoyed the movie, that's fine, that's your opinion. I didn't and I stated mine with no apologies. By the way, Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of the suffering of others. I only spoke the truth of what the movie depicts, so, now you label me a sadist because I didn't enjoy seeing a man suffering? or portrayed as suffering? I didn't enjoy the movie.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 24, 2008 - 10:33 ET by Noel SheppardSyrius,
So, people who enjoy war movies, Shakespearean tragedies, or any dramas with violence and/or death are sadists? That would make virtually all Americans sadists. Is that your position?
Furthermore, that any number of movie critics felt as you do doesn't make them right. I normally don't agree with movie critics, and find their opinions facile and sophomoric. Do you base your movie-watching on what others like? ns
You are entitled to your opinion...
January 24, 2008 - 13:15 ET by Syrius...as I am entitled to mine.
As a point of my own reference-
after the birth of my first child, I became more aware of society's
attraction of violence and death. You'll say since I'm a liberal, I'm more
sensitive than a conservative. I tend to- turn off the morning news
more, have a harder time watching programs & movies with violence
and death, etc. That's just me not anyone else. If I have an opinion of
a movie and the people who watch it, what's wrong with stating it? If
you have an opinion of me and disagree with my views, what's the
difference?
Interesting comments...
"Furthermore, that any number of movie critics felt as you do doesn't
make them right."(Nor does it make them wrong.)
"I normally don't agree with movie critics, and find
their opinions facile and sophomoric. Do you base your movie-watching
on what others like?"(Your
opinion is to not agree with their review and claim them as facile and
sophomoric. I'm okay with you stating your opinion. From my
recollection of my right to freedom of speech, I'm still allowed
to agree or disagree with what others like or dislike...and be able to
say it.)
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 24, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius
It's like the Earth, except it's run by socialists and nothing works.
jack bauer
USA,USA,USA!!!
January 24, 2008 - 14:32 ET by SyriusJack Bauer,
Since I don't live in England, I have no idea what
it means to live in a socialist enviroment. I'm a proud American &
fully support the Constitution of the United States and the American way of life. I'm a capitalist.
I'm more of a Centrist when it comes to my politics. I'm not a radical
right winger. I'm so glad we kicked the a$$ of the winging brits not
once but twice. I know you're bitter but get over it. Please add
something of value to this particular thread.
By the way, I
have no idea why you think I'm someone from your past. I was informed
from others, you did have an arch nemesis that you had banned. Let be clear, I'm not
that person. It is interesting how you get tweaked with the slightest
bit of criticism. You can dish it out but you can't take it.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Boy, Jack, Sryius really got
January 24, 2008 - 14:52 ET by Roger the ShrubberBoy, Jack, Sryius really got you good with that Revolutionary War zinger. Pow!
Next thing you know he will bring up the Normans....
BTW, Syrius, Leon is going to be upset that you are revealing what he thought was private "pillow talk" between the two of you. Tsk, tsk.
Help me out here Jack, Roger
January 24, 2008 - 15:04 ET by candanceSyruis says we clownstomped the British not once, but twice. I can only assume the second instance was the War of 1812?
The war where truce was called because things had stalled into an unending stalemate and the result was status quo ante bellum? That's the definition of a clownstomp?
This guy is more and more entertaining every day. He is even worse than the Prof.
Right you are. It was more
January 24, 2008 - 16:18 ET by Roger the ShrubberRight you are. It was more of a "Leon/Syrius slap battle" than a "clown-stomp"...
Treaty of Ghent:
Since they did not feel in danger of defeat -- and in fact were nearing the defeat of Napoleon -- the British struck hard terms: a "neutral" zone around the Great Lakes extending as far south as the Ohio River; removal of American fishing rights off Newfoundland; free British access to the Mississippi, and American demilitarization of the Great Lakes. The U.S. refused. Instead they wanted compensation for the impressment and for the captured ships.
As negotiations continued, news of the British losses at Lake Champlain, Lake Erie and Baltimore arrived, changing the British outlook. They promptly came to agreement to essentially return to the pre-war status quo, and signed the Treaty of Ghent on December 24, 1814.
LOL
January 24, 2008 - 10:58 ET by candanceDavid Edelstein giving a Christian film a bad review? You mean the same David Edelstein who recommended films like Zodiac and The Departed and said Michael Moore was a good film maker? The same David Edelstein who attacks Christianity with every available chance and once said in a movie review that Christians need Satan to act like a boogeyman or God would not be relevant?
Nice try getting an unbiased assessment of the film.
Oh, and just for the record, the gospel of Christ is defined by His death and resurrection. Being nice to everyone does not get you salvation. But I shouldn't expect someone like David Edelstein to get that.
There is a difference between watching a violent movie for the sake of enjoyment (which David Edelstien repeatedly recommends) or watching violence to understand the lives of those who went through it.
Opinions...
January 24, 2008 - 14:02 ET by SyriusCandance,
Not that it matters, He's a film critic and gets paid.
You are allowed to have an opinion and that's what matters most. I
didn't like the movie, my opinion. I see it as a sadistic way to
portray the crucifixion of Christ, my opinion. I pointed to
Edelstein's single review as an opinion I agreed with, nothing more.
Opinions are biased. He wasn't giving an unbiased assessment but a critique of the movie. You have the right to agree or disagree.
And these comments...
"Oh, and just for the record, the gospel of Christ is defined by His death and resurrection."
I
know of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The Gospels
describe the miraculous birth, life, ministry, crucifixion, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ. Does a Gospel of Christ exist?
"Being nice to everyone does not get you salvation."
With so many interpretations, could you please define 'salvation'?
Thanks,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
is this guy serious?
January 24, 2008 - 14:26 ET by candanceDo you always use such tedious arguments or do just do this on NB to make conservatives bored with you?
First you call someone homophobe for poking fun at a film they hadn't seen. Then you poke fun at a snuff film based on the opinion of an agnostic liberal who is known for bashing Christianity.
Then you show your ignorance of the Bible by asking the difference between the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel according to Matthew.
Then after your astute recollection of the gospel of Christ, you ask a Christian how they believe salvation is obtained.
I swear even Leon comes up with better arguments than this.
I commented on the right of having opinions...
January 24, 2008 - 15:14 ET by SyriusCandance,
CA made a joke about the homosexual relationship between two
characters in a film's now defunct sequel. The joke is when someone
makes disparaging gay jokes you turn around and call them out so to
speak.
Reread my comments, I was definitely not poking fun at a 'snuff'
film but taking a firm stance against the depiction of the suffering of
a man. In this thread, I have not bashed Christianity.
I did point out, correctly I might add, your ignorance on the Bible
and the 'Gospel of Christ'. I'll repeat it does not exist. Do you mean
the Word of Christ through the Gospels?
I know everyone hates wiki, but, in this case...
http://en.wikipedia....
And, yes, I'm asking you what is your definition of salvation? You do know the definition of salvation varies according to different doctrines?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syr: Reread my comments, I
January 24, 2008 - 15:34 ET by tracheostomySyr: Reread my comments, I was definitely not poking fun at a 'snuff'
film but taking a firm stance against the depiction of the suffering of
a man. In this thread, I have not bashed Christianity.
And at the same time implied that Christians took a sadistic glee in watching it.
Syr: I did point out, correctly I might add, your ignorance on the Bible
and the 'Gospel of Christ'. I'll repeat it does not exist. Do you mean
the Word of Christ through the Gospels?
Are you saying one unified community of disciples under one man's message came away and wrote books about it, all defining the core "message" in their own individual way?
Mark: This is what Gospel means to me, because the definition is under my exclusive authority, and no one else's.
Paul: This is what Gospel means to me, because the definition is under my exclusive authority, and no one else's.
Luke: This is what Gospel means to me, because the definition is under my exclusive authority, and no one else's.
This does not follow.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ...your knowledge of the Bible...
January 24, 2008 - 15:48 ET by SyriusDoes the 'Gospel of Christ' exist?
It's a simple straightforward reasonable question...it's a 'yes' or 'no' answer, period.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Okay, I'll bite. Yes. I
January 24, 2008 - 15:51 ET by tracheostomyOkay, I'll bite. Yes. I assert that a Gospel of Christ exists. The question of course is, "In what form does it exist?"
You going to come at me with a retroactive argument from the basis of print history now? Or. . .what?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
:looking at watch: . .
January 24, 2008 - 16:07 ET by tracheostomy:looking at watch:
. . .
Um, hello? That's it?
Where'd you go Syrius?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Thanks for your answer...
January 24, 2008 - 16:55 ET by SyriusIncorrect. The Bible does not have a specific "Gospel of Christ". The bible only refers to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
:sigh: C'mon Syrius.
January 24, 2008 - 17:00 ET by tracheostomy:sigh:
C'mon Syrius. Bible or gospel? Which came first?
So print media is the only valid form of communication? I can't believe you're continuing to assert this.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
→ Syrius, Paul would disagree
January 24, 2008 - 17:05 ET by Cool ArrowFor I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ - Rom 1:16.
Syriusly wrong
January 24, 2008 - 17:06 ET by LionKingThe Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
There are 4 renditions of the Gospel written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John...each with a different intended audience.
For example, the first of these Books is called The Gospel according to Matthew, but often referred to as the Gospel of Matthew...regardless, it is still the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
What really shocks me is
January 24, 2008 - 17:17 ET by tracheostomyWhat really shocks me is that I call the game on 15:51, and then Syrius plays right into it an hour later just as predicted.
I mean seriously, I posted that stuff just for him; you'd think he'd actually consider it before making himself look bad.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Sorry, PJ...
January 24, 2008 - 17:44 ET by Syrius...I'm not able to post as quickly as you would like, work beckons
for the working stiff. I'm still amazed this thread has gone on for so
long.
As for Candance, she had painted herself into a corner.
She firmly believed in what she stated & was proven wrong in her
assumption. I asked reasonable questions and am attacked for those
questions. Take a firm position and just stick with it. If proven
wrong, admit to it. If you want to believe in words written by men more
than two thousand years ago, be my guest. I'll keep my opinions on that
topic to myself for now...
Peace,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
this guy is really something
January 24, 2008 - 23:14 ET by candanceYou'll have to pardon the belated response as I also have responsibilites other than here.
I wasn't proven wrong in anything, and I didn't attack you for asking reasonable questions. I cited a phrase commonly used in the Bible, you attached a random qualifier to change the meaning of my post, and when I showed you my source you ignored me. How does that mean I attacked you?
And as for your snide remark about believing the words written in a book - there is the real crux of this argument. It didn't have anything to do with the definition of gospel. This whole thing happened because you criticised a movie for portraying the death of Christ and said Christians appreciated the film because of a sadistic impulse. I called you out for being a Christophobe and you denied it, yet here we are with you belittling Christians yet again.
PS Still waiting for the several different versions of salvation found within Christianity.
okay Syrius
January 24, 2008 - 15:43 ET by candanceDo me a favor sweetie. Go find a Bible, open to Mark, and read the title: The Gospel According to Mark. I didn't just pull that out of the air.
Then read the first verse of Mark which says "The Beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."
Then read Paul's words in Romans where he says "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ" and again he says "I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."
Would you please stop looking up websites about the Bible and leave that stuff to us?
The definition of salvation is atonement of sin through Christs's blood shed on the cross. Please link me to any mainstream Christian denom that rebutts this claim.
That's according to the gospel of...
January 24, 2008 - 15:50 ET by Syrius...Mark.
Sweetie,
Please cite the 'Gospel of Christ' and no others.
Thanks,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
?????????
January 24, 2008 - 16:06 ET by candanceSyrius you're delusional. I never said there was a book Jesus wrote about his own life. You are the one who keeps asserting a gospel is defined solely as a book someone writes.
The entire New Testament is the record of the Gospel of Christ...and I provided three different quotes to prove to you the authors were recording their personal interaction with said gospel.
Romans 15:29
But I know that when I come to you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:12
If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:18
What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.
2 Corinthians 2:12
Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened to me by the Lord,
Galatians 1:7
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Philippians 1:27
Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
1 Thessalonians 3:2
and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,
And guess what...not a one of those came from any of the four "gospels" you so desperately cling to.
Face it Syrius, you made a knee-jerk reaction to question my knowledge, got shown up, and are now trying to narrow the definition of gospel to make yourself look right.
There is A gospel record someone writes to tell a story, and then there is THE gospel the writer wants readers to buy into. Your verbal acrobatics are really getting old.
Well done Candance, but I
January 24, 2008 - 16:28 ET by tracheostomyWell done Candance, but I think Syrius has a hidden Ace up his sleeve.
He could easily assert that the term "gospel" is itself ambiguous, claiming a gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Mark (liberal theologians do this all the time). The reason of course being "all the obvious contradictions." This is the base argument for the old "No gospel of Christ" argument.
When you look at the definition of the word "gospel" all the churchy mysticism is stripped down, and what you have in the end is the word ("message") that is dependent on a certain individual's POV, The gospel of "X" etc.
With that, Syrius could also cite the "blind men and the elephant" argument, or the "traffic accident" analogy to the Bible, stating that each book came from a different POV that was written about the unknowable "whole."
But to do that, he would need cited contradictions between the authors. Otherwise, the account is a clear eyewitness account of three or more individuals.*
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible is an awesome Christian resource for this sort of thing. It strengthens your convictions like none other.
-PJ
*With all us amanuenses (Mark; Luke) left out of the spotlight. It's our lot in life. =)
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
of course Trach
January 24, 2008 - 16:37 ET by candanceI know Syrius will ignore my points and return with some new spin to keep claiming victory. I engaged him to highlight his predictable strategy and let the the other readers determine who is right.
This whole thing started because of the movie review HE posted in which the writer asserted that Jesus's good deeds done in His life were more important than His death. I made the point to Syrius that death on the cross was the reason Christ came to Earth and His preaching was the icing on the cake. Instead of debating this, he drew off topic to debate the definition of a gospel.
And we're still waiting for Syrius to hold up to his claim that some Christian denominations don't believe salvation comes by way of the cross.
Trach, Candance...keep up
January 24, 2008 - 16:41 ET by vrwc13Trach, Candance...keep up the "good fight"...treasures in Heaven, ya know.
v
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11
Candance, I hope he doesn't
January 24, 2008 - 16:49 ET by tracheostomyCandance, I hope he doesn't divert OT. I can't stand it when people pull dodgy stuff that.
If you have a question, don't ask it with the assumption that it doesn't have an answer to begin with. Probably the worse mistake ever.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
you know trach
January 24, 2008 - 17:18 ET by candanceIt amazes me that the phrase "gospel of Christ" can be used a dozen times in the Bible, but someone who isn't even a Christian can theologically decide it doesn't exist based on an arbitrary qualifier.
Let's start saying the NY Times does not exist since it does not literally apply to time.
Welcome to the world of
January 24, 2008 - 11:08 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like a fatter, even more bloated Michael Moore.
jack bauer
"By the way, Sadism is
January 24, 2008 - 12:44 ET by Hero SquadOK, but you are making an assumption that the people who are praising the movie enjoyed watching the suffering. Rather, they felt it was an important story to tell, and that it should not be censored in order to tell it right. Watching the movie, feeling that it is an important story to tell, does not make one a sadist.
Does your enjoyment of a film determine whether or not you think it was good or bad?
One follow-up question: Did you enjoy watching Schindler's List?
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
The "snuff film" argument
January 24, 2008 - 13:37 ET by tracheostomyThe "snuff film" argument hinges on whether the audience was intended to enjoy the torture and suffering or not.
Was the audience meant to enjoy it when Wallace was having his intestines pulled out in Braveheart?
Barring Henry VI, is the audience meant to enjoy it whenever Joan of Arc is burned at the stake?
Syrius, if a main character dies in a "tear-jerker chick flick" I double dare you to walk in on the audence and tell them all they get a sadistic thrill out of watching them die.
This is a forced argument in denial of both the author's intent and the audience's reception. And it's not only false, but effective, because people like Syrius can run around all day and freely tell his opponents what they really meant and doesn't have to even regard their feelings on the matter.
What he's implying is that Christians watching the film got some sort of sick; perverse joy out of it. He doesn't bother actually asking a Christian (since their opinion is suspect anyway), so they're just arbitrarily slapped with the label of "sadist."
All of this wins too, since inductive; subjective reasoning calls the shots in society right now.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Welcome to the world of
January 24, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except it's in a parallel looniverse.
jack bauer
Hoomophobes Syrius? It is
January 23, 2008 - 13:11 ET by bassndudeHoomophobes Syrius? It is not the homos as individuals, it is the hoooomo behaviour. I know some homos, Im not the least bit scared of them. But when they come over to my house, they do not bring "friends".
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
All for yourself to enjoy, I bet.
January 23, 2008 - 13:42 ET by SyriusOverheard recently..."Republican men aren't gay or homosexual, some just like to have sex with other men. As long as their balls don't touch, you can consider them not gay."
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
→ Syrius
January 23, 2008 - 13:44 ET by Cool ArrowYou've really given some syrius thought to this guy on guy thing, haven't you?
I'm secure with my heterosexuality.
January 23, 2008 - 14:00 ET by SyriusCA,
I only attack the radical conservatives filled with hatred & dangerous thoughts.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
→ Syrius the homophobe?
January 23, 2008 - 14:11 ET by Cool ArrowSo why are you telling jokes about gay sex?
Sounds "homophobic" by your own standards.
Cool 1, Syrius nil
January 23, 2008 - 14:13 ET by Free StinkerCool: 1
Syrius: 0
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
Another lurker gettin' off...?
January 23, 2008 - 14:20 ET by SyriusFreeS...,
Lurking & enjoying the issue?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Just noting that Cool was
January 23, 2008 - 15:06 ET by Free StinkerJust noting that Cool was winning the arguement.
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
syrius is - shall we say -
January 23, 2008 - 15:13 ET by TruthMongersyrius is - shall we say - "curious:)?"
makes an awful lot of homophobe comments...
I never claimed the quote a joke...
January 23, 2008 - 14:17 ET by SyriusCA,
Please tell me how wide your stance is on this gay issue? (Now, that's a joke.)
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
→ More homophobia from Syrius
January 23, 2008 - 14:30 ET by Cool ArrowYou just don't quit with the gay bashing do you?
Move on to some more material, would ya?
CA, I apologize...
January 23, 2008 - 15:03 ET by Syrius...for offending you. I didn't know you were gay. My bad. I'll refrain from using any remarks that you may think are offensive to your group. I now understand your position in supporting Sen. Larry Craig, Ted Haggard and the rest of your group. Everyone, please stop hurting CA's feelings. He's sensitive to the 'humor' that exists on this site. Move on, everyone, nothing to see here, move on...
My sincere apologies to you and your friends,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
say that's awfully clever
January 23, 2008 - 15:10 ET by candanceYou can tell when a liberal is getting bored and/or frustrated when they start calling people gay and randomly bringing up Ted Haggard. You people seriously need some new material.
If you think it's wrong to insult gay people, why do you try to insult people by calling them gay?
candance, Next, he'll
January 23, 2008 - 15:15 ET by Free Stinkercandance,
Next, he'll call foul for you demonstrating that he is acting like a hypocrite.
Then, to show his lack of reading comprehension, he will say I actually called him one.
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
Free Stinker
January 23, 2008 - 15:18 ET by candanceDon't you wish we could do that? While arguing with a liberal, we should just start randomly shouting "Sandy Berger!" and expect the debate to be over.
LOL! Newsbusters.
January 23, 2008 - 15:23 ET by Free StinkerLOL!
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
are the libs becoming way
January 23, 2008 - 15:19 ET by TruthMongerare the libs becoming way too predictable?
do they even need to post here anymore? I know I could post for them with about 80% less typing...
that would save some web site electricity as NB goes green:)
cool -- Welcome to the
January 23, 2008 - 15:06 ET by Jack Bauercool --
Welcome to the world of syrius.
It's like the Earth, except it's in a parallel looniverse
Jack Bauer
→ Syrius piece of work
January 23, 2008 - 15:09 ET by Cool ArrowHe is funny (not that there's anything wrong with it).
Honest to g, never noticed
January 23, 2008 - 15:18 ET by Jack BauerHonest to g, never noticed anything remotely humorous.
Mind you he is of the whinging wombat persuasion where men are men, and the sheep run scared.
I see. When it's a
January 23, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Hero SquadI see. When it's a liberal's gay joke, it's funny. When it's a conservative's gay joke, it's homophobic.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Looks like Syrius is "going
January 23, 2008 - 15:07 ET by Dan The Man 2Looks like Syrius is "going to the matresses with this topic"
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Coooool Arrow...
January 23, 2008 - 15:21 ET by SyriusCA,
It looks like your posse has arrived! Especially, Jack Bauer! I'm sure he learned some new moves from his incarceration. I hear it was just like 'OZ', only with a better real life script. Hey Jack, did your cellmate give you a biotche 'tat' on your tukus? Ride'em, Cowboy! He supposedly launders & irons a mean jumpsuit. Dan, I never knew you were part of the gang. Now, I know. No offense, guys?...gals...? Anyways...
Cheers,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
*scratches head*
January 23, 2008 - 15:23 ET by candanceCan anyone make any sense of this gibberish? And is this really the best argument a liberal can compose?
It's hard to comprehend...I know...
January 23, 2008 - 15:38 ET by SyriusCandance,
Jack Bauer is the lead character, portrayed by Kiefer Sutherland, in the hit Fox series "24". Here's the link... http://www.fox.com/2...
Kiefer Sutherland, aka Jack Bauer, was convicted of DUI & just finished 40+days in prison. See, the humor loses its appeal when you have to explain it. Try to stay informed so you can laugh with the rest of us. Gosh, don't get so upset if you don't get "it".
I typed this message very slowly so you can keep up...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 23, 2008 - 15:44 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius
It's like the Aussie version of Pop Idol -- think how excruciatingly bad that must be.
jack bauer
My apologies Syrius
January 23, 2008 - 15:59 ET by candanceYou will have to forgive me for not knowing personal details about a celebrity I've never met. I really do not understand the fascination around famous actors.
Candance
January 23, 2008 - 15:47 ET by MassConservYou've got to realize that Syrius has a Jack Bauer poster over his bed with a calendar next to it on which he was counting off the days until Keifer's release.
It's not your fault for not following his logic.
I'd say it's a rather good sign, actually.
Projecting a fantasy?
January 23, 2008 - 17:07 ET by SyriusMassConv,
I see, now, someone has followed my logic. Thanks for the indirect compliment. By the way, I'm sure Jack won't mind you asking for a 'signed' poster. Jack, I know your reading this thread. It sounds like one of your buds wants a poster but is too shy to ask for one. Come on, MassConv, Man Up! I'm sure he'll send you one. As for my poster, I lined my monkey cage with it. You should see my monkey go to town all over it...better yet, picture it in your mind.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius, it's very obvious
January 23, 2008 - 23:04 ET by KarmaSyrius, it's very obvious you're inclined, if not obsessed, to do it with the same sex, whatever that may be. A 25 year Alaskan with no gender identity is no excuse; grow up and admit who who are.
Syrius, it seems, sure
January 23, 2008 - 15:32 ET by bassndudeSyrius, it seems, sure likes to pucker up for those "ooooo"s. Hmmm, makes ya wonder how much practice he has, dont it?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
You were the one...
January 23, 2008 - 15:46 ET by Syrius...who commented on having your gay friend over your place and having him all to yourself. You wrote it. Dormin philosophy at its best. I see you are part of this posse, also.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
the possee's arrived?
January 23, 2008 - 15:33 ET by mastersofdeceitThat's rich. Coming from the guy whose first post ever on this site was to provide defense of leon (and degrade the posters here at the same time)
master -- first post under
January 23, 2008 - 15:41 ET by Jack Bauermaster -- first post under that pen-name. He's been here before, and been banned.
If I recall correctly, Roger the S nailed him with the nickname wittle wombat.
Ah gotcha jack. Didn't know
January 23, 2008 - 15:47 ET by mastersofdeceitAh gotcha jack. Didn't know that. I know The Professor admitted to being a reincarnated former banned poster.
Welcome to the world of
January 23, 2008 - 15:42 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like week old roadkill, only less appetizing.
jack bauer
Gosh...
January 23, 2008 - 16:50 ET by SyriusJack,
Don't be such a winging pomme. Being locked up, I'm sure you had some enlightening moments about our current prison system. Care to share? It looks like you got the correct training on how to fold... under pressure, that is.
Cheerio,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
The Yahoo news front page
January 23, 2008 - 10:12 ET by contraryThe Yahoo news front page has an article on bush's "935 misstatements." The usual lack of balanced, non-agenda driven, journalistic endeavor we are used to seeing.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/misinformation_study
"The study concluded that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."
Intellectual hyprocracy at its finest.
I saw that - did you notice the last line?
January 23, 2008 - 10:19 ET by Dee Bunk"These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media
coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush
administration's false statements about Iraq," it said."
Nice to put that at the end huh? And where are the tabulations on President Clinton and Congress? What a joke of a study, and the fact that they claim to be for Independence in Journalism is completely outrageous.
Right, dee...these people
January 23, 2008 - 10:21 ET by motherbeltRight, dee...these people have zero, nada, zip, zilch, when it comes to credibility. That they can claim it with a straight face is chutzpah on stilts.
MB - plus it's two statments not 932
January 23, 2008 - 10:35 ET by Dee BunkThis was their criteria
"Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both."
How retarded to count the number of times it was said. No one denies that they said it. It's not like they need to prove that it was said. The 932 is meant to make it sound like they said 932 different things that turned out to be false.
The two statements that they based it on haven't even been proven false.
...nor does it prove that
January 23, 2008 - 11:07 ET by Hero Squad...nor does it prove that if they are false, that they were known to be false when they were made.
It's akin to getting an 8 of 10 on a math quiz, and declaring the two wrong answers as "lies."
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Yeah hero - plus the whole class missed the two questions
January 23, 2008 - 11:27 ET by Dee BunkYeah hero - plus the whole class missed the two questions. In fact two whole classes missed them. The objective teacher in one classroom decided the questions weren't fair and gave everyone credit back, but the insecure Loser Liberal teacher in classroom two decided that the dumb kids copied off the smart kids so it wasn't their fault. She gives the dumb kids credit and fails the smart kids, and doesn't adjust the test or her teaching for the next class of students.
...and the teacher's guide
January 23, 2008 - 13:02 ET by Hero Squad...and the teacher's guide had it wrong. :-)
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I was listening to NPR
January 23, 2008 - 10:36 ET by Dan The Man 2I was listening to NPR interview the author of teh upcoming book and it was funny because he was using hindsight, at least in the clips in the interview, to say that the statements were false. The book will appeal to those who believe Gore was gored by the Bush machine in 2000 and swiftboater in 2004 were liars. im hoping some one will phisk the book.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
This whole thing about Bush
January 23, 2008 - 13:44 ET by Chris NormanThis whole thing about Bush "lies" is entirely based on a payback for the impeachment over Bill Clinton and his lies to the grand jury. The left uses the term "lies" to cover anything they disagree with from Bush, which, of course, is everything. "Lies" being the key term to tie it back in to Clinton's impeachment. They'll use "lie" on anything, no matter how incorrectly applied.
they actually lie about
January 23, 2008 - 15:15 ET by TruthMongerthey actually lie about Bush lying - it's deliciously ironic - classic lib stuff
a funny bunch they are
Yahoo
January 23, 2008 - 10:38 ET by candanceYou expect Yahoo to cover Republican news in a fair light? They're one of the hardest left companies out there but often get overlooked.
It's not just Yahoo - It's the AP and will be all over
January 23, 2008 - 10:45 ET by Dee Bunkthe networks no doubt
MSM tactic!
January 23, 2008 - 11:54 ET by PawpawNIsn't the first part of what they are saying their own playbook! "The study concluded that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses." WAR is the only word change, everything else is straight from MSM playbook-keep giving statements, orchestrate the info, do all under false pretenses....sounds like their modus operenda[sp]!!
My wife and I have already
January 23, 2008 - 10:28 ET by BruzillaMy wife and I have already voted for Fred, and I'm encouraging my kids to go ahead and vote for him next tuesday as well even though he's dropped out. Florida is the first true Republican vote, and I'm hoping a lot of folks vote for Fred.
I think Fred is too old and has too much else he could be doing to ever be a VP. I think a much more likely scenario is that Romney will win the nomination and take Huckebee as VP to offset the Morman thing.
If McCain wins, I'm voting for whoever the Democrat nominee is.
Wow Bruzilla - that is cutting off your nose to spite your face
January 23, 2008 - 10:44 ET by Dee BunkFirst you are going to waste your vote in Florida so that McCain could possibly win there and then you would vote for Obama or Clinton over him?
You must be against the War and care less if the Supreme court has more Ginsburgs. You also must like the idea of government health care and the Fairness Doctrine.
If Fred backs Mc Cain, I
January 23, 2008 - 10:48 ET by USA4freedomIf Fred backs Mc Cain, I want my money back!!!Mitt/Fred works for me!
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
I've got some bad news for
January 23, 2008 - 10:57 ET by BruzillaI've got some bad news for you... the things you mentioned are going to happen regardless of if you elect a democrat or a RINO. McCain, Romney, Guiliani, and Huckabee are all cut from the same cloth. These guys will all get into office, and start trying to equivicate with the Democrats, especially Romney since he's a master at finding common ground as most successful business people are. As for judges, as soon as the flack starts to fly from the pro-abortion crowd, and all the talk of "settled law" comes up, do you really believe that any one of those RINOs will be willing to stand up and insist on a conservative anti-Roe v Wade judge? It ain't going to happen. As for the Fairness Doctrine, first - my bet is that it will be worded and phrased in such a way that it comes off as being all about fair play and equality, and none of the RINOs will have the guts to veto it. Secondly, I am mad as Hell with Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest of the whole gutless radio crowd. They had a great opportunity to endorse Thompson and push the only decent conservative in the bunch, but instead they decided to cover their own asses and play up the "I think all these guys are great" angle. If they really wanted to protect their jobs they should have used their bully pulpits to help elect a conservative instead of worrying about endorsing someone who might end up not winning... thus casting their credibility into self-doubt.
So yes... I would rather vote for a Democrat and let him/her royally screw the country up than vote for a RINO. Maybe, if Clinton or Obama wins, the Republicans will finally get the message that we are tired of RINO candidates, and in 2012 they'll run someone who's actually a conservative. If we vote for a RINO, we're just condoning this pathetic behavior and we'll have to endure four or eight years of mediocre performance, which I'll take a pass on.
While I admit one of the
January 23, 2008 - 11:13 ET by Hero SquadWhile I admit one of the things I'd like to see is Obama or Hillary forced into backpedaling on Iraq once they see the ramifications of pulling out too soon (and the Dem backlash that will accompany it), I'd still rather have someone who is right on 80% of the issues than someone who's 10% right.
I think McCain easily defeat Hillary by pulling in Dems who are attracted to his "maverick" label (something I think is more sizzle than steak, actually... but they don't need to know that right now.)
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I agree that McCain could
January 23, 2008 - 11:29 ET by BruzillaI agree that McCain could beat Hillary, but it would be a pyrrhic victory at best. McCain has a very serious flaw in that he has never shown loyalty to anyone when it came time to help himself. He left a crippled wife for a gorgeous rich girl, he turned on a large portion of the Republican base to try to get more moderate voters, he turned on Bill Frist on the subject of judges... which REALLY makes me wonder why anyone would think the guy would nominate a judge that would overturn Roe V. Wade.
So yes... McCain could be your president, but he would be a president that supports gun control, isn't inclined to overturn Roe V. Wade, wants to treat terrorists like criminals and put all our lives at risk rather than (clutch the pearls) waterboard someone, is opposed to international evasedropping, opposes "tax cuts for the wealthy", and on and on and on. Why further dilute a Republican presidency with this POS? I would rather endure four years of a Democrat and hopw for a real conservative to come out in 2012.
Even if Roe v. Wade is
January 23, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Hero SquadEven if Roe v. Wade is overturned (which I, of course, would support), that wouldn't necessarily curb abortions in the country, since all it would mean is that states determine their abortion laws.
I am not pulling for McCain. Leaning toward Romney at this point. But I would vote McCain long before I'd let someone else decide that Hillary or Obama should be our next president.
If either got in, despite how lousy their presidency might be or how much damage they might do, the media would still prop them up as much as they possibly could and give them an edge for re-election in 2012. They couldn't be just bad, they'd have to be Carter bad, to lose their position. I just don't want to live another four years through that.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
→ Hero
January 23, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Cool ArrowI'm more concerned and angered that the Government forces me to be complicit in funding abortions.
Yeah, that does
January 23, 2008 - 13:03 ET by Hero SquadYeah, that does stink.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I'm a very pro-abortion guy,
January 23, 2008 - 11:50 ET by BruzillaI'm a very pro-abortion guy, but I've never liked the Roe V. Wade decision for the same reason Fred said he opposed it, i.e., it denied the states' rights. Overturning Roe V. Wade would kick the abortion question back to the states, and the states would decide if abortion is legal or not, and the residents of those states could vote with their feet if they disliked the opinion of their state. That was the model the Founders intended for this country.
Disagree Bru
January 23, 2008 - 11:56 ET by candancekick the abortion question back to the states, and the states would decide if abortion is legal or not, and the residents of those states could vote with their feet
I'm all for states' rights, but not in the case of a life or death issue. The founding fathers tried that with slavery and pro-slave people started infiltrating frontier states (voting with their feet) to pour money and influence into the that state's decison. It eventually led to Bleeding Kansas, where the fight for the state constitution turned into a literal fight.
I happen to agree with Huckabee on that particular issue: states can decide on taxes, marriage, etc, but we cannot have 50 different versions of who deserves to be murdered.
And that's the kicker right
January 23, 2008 - 12:08 ET by BruzillaAnd that's the kicker right there!!! "I'm all for states' rights, but not in the case of..." That view is EXACTLY why the country is in the state it is in today, It's the view that has caused us to suffer through decades of squabble about abortion, it's the view that brought the Interstate Commerce Law into our lives... much to our chagrin. It's also the view that really made me like Thompson because he didn't share it.
You can't support state's rights sometimes, but not all the time, especially in cases where you have a personal issue with them. Abortion is a great example. You are personally opposed to it, so you feel it shouldn't be a state's right. Someone else feels it's okay, and should be. Since you're basing your judgement on personal opinion, rather than the state's rights, you have constant acrimony everytime a new person comes into power.
It's the same deal with the Bill of Rights. You have people who feel the Bill of Rights is inviolable... except for... You hear "I demand my freedom of religion, but I've never liked guns so I don't care about those." If you're going to protect one right, you've got to protect them all, because once one falls, all the rest are at risk.
When it comes to state's rights and individual rights, there should never, ever, be a "I'm all for them, but not in the case of ..."
I am all for States
January 23, 2008 - 12:27 ET by Ruths husband BenI am all for States Rights, but I don't think that is the end all to end all. To say that nothing falls in the purvue of the Federal Government is to distort the Constitution. Remember that when the Constitution was enacted, it was (and remains) a compromise between Federalism and the rights of the States. There has to be a balance.
If you consider Abortion = murder, well then that falls under National Rights. Most murders are prosecuted under State statutes, but if they did not exist (i.e., some state had decreed that murder was legal, for example) there are Federal laws to fall back on. It is silly to say that interpretation of abortion (as a right or not) is a state right and that the national interest is not legitimate.
The key point of your
January 23, 2008 - 13:49 ET by BruzillaThe key point of your statement is "If you consider Abortion = murder". Some people feel very stongly that this is the case, but others don't. The Founders knew that there were some issues that the people all felt strongly about and that were critical - guns, religion, speech, etc. Those were federalized by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Pretty much everything else was left to the states. The Founders didn't want the Federal government getting into disputes of this nature, and expected each state to handle it as they deemed appropriate, and if a resident had an issue with their state they could move.
Huh Bru?
January 23, 2008 - 12:42 ET by candanceI'm backing up my position with a historical argument, not just emotionalism. There are many cases where the federal government had to impose a baseline law, like with ending slavery, prosecuting murder, civil rights, etc. If someone said "hey let's let states vote on whether pedophilia is a crime" would you be okay with that?
I'm personally against gay marriage but would agree on state referendums. As far as women choosing, let states decide birth control laws, teen sex laws, adoption laws, etc. But the abolition and civil rights movements proved that we cannot tolerate states telling anyone they don't deserve life or liberty.
→ State referendums
January 23, 2008 - 12:48 ET by Cool ArrowI'm kinda wondering. If Mass. decides to sanction Gay Marriage, does that mean Texas has to honor their law?
Do States have to recognize each others' "age of consent" laws?
If an expensive war was the only way to get rid of slavery
January 23, 2008 - 12:49 ET by sarcasmoHow in the world did Brazil find a way to do it without one?? I'm not saying it was easy for them, but they managed to do it somehow. I encourage folks to read "Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men." That book opened my eyes to all the crap I'd read in highschool.
We live in what's supposed to be a federal system. That means states get to experiment a lot, ideally. I think history shows clearly that chattel slavery would have died-out anyway *without* any war, but saying-so is still heresy, or it gets treated as a pro-slavery statement.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
well sarc
January 23, 2008 - 12:56 ET by candanceGiven the way politicians in the 1850s kept the issue alive with the Kansas/Nebraska Act, it's no wonder we ended up with a war. The people were not allowed to sit down and vote on the issue. Congress basically told them, the remaining states are up for grabs and it's not our job to judge slave holders. Thus the plan was influence all incoming states, get an overwhelming majority, and use it to tilt Congress in favor of their side.
Oh, but some folks DID vote...
January 23, 2008 - 13:03 ET by sarcasmoIt was called "jury nullification," and it shone in Fugitive Slave Act cases with the morality of common people over judges & politicians & supreme court 'justices' of the day. Morality came -- then as now -- from the bottom up, NOT the top down, much as control-freaks would like to imagine the opposite. The moral power of the jury box is ignored these days (when judges aren't busily misleading people on the very purpose of juries) but it's still one of the things that keeps us free. It's just a pity more jurors don't learn they can nullify bad laws for moral reasons...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
all US states must honor the right to life, period
January 23, 2008 - 12:53 ET by TruthMongerregardless of your home state - you have the right to life - it applies to all states...
and women cannot choose to violate that despite the delusions of people like syrius
Again... that's your opinion
January 23, 2008 - 13:52 ET by BruzillaAgain... that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as are many, many others. And if there are enough of you who feel that way to get abortion banned in your state then good for you. There are some states where the opposite is true, and they can pass laws that make it legal. That's how freedom and state's rights is supposed to work.
Or, at least, was...
January 23, 2008 - 13:55 ET by sarcasmoPre-Raisch. Consistent federalist principles in a Justice as intellectually-powerful as Thomas can be a bit inconvenient, no??
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
weak argument bru
January 23, 2008 - 14:38 ET by candanceUnborn babies can't get up and walk away from their home state. Helpless fathers who feel sorry for that baby can't stop a mother from driving across state lines to kill it.
Let's get rid of all federal crimes because apparently assault is in the eye of the beholder. Let's let parents beat their children with no recourse if enough of them in a state make it legal. Let's allow parents to force their daughters into prostitution because it's not a crime in their state. Let's repeal the suffrage act and the civil rights act and let certain states tell women they can't vote - will their husbands quit their jobs and move away to buy a vote for their wife?
The Constitution means nothing if an entire group of people can be killed without their consent based on a certain state's agenda.
candance...would you answer
January 23, 2008 - 19:12 ET by Jercandance...would you answer or comment on the following hypothetical in order to establish some definitional parameters regarding the abortion issue:
If a woman happened to engage in unprotected sexual intercourse at a time when there existed a reasonable possibility she could become pregnant and consequently took a "morning after" pill, would you consider her guilty of attempted murder, or, if it could be shown that she did in fact destroy a fertilized egg, guilty of first degree murder? And what punishment should she receive for intentionally snuffing out this human life [smaller than the period at the end of this sentence]. Death?
Thanks, Jer
Jer
January 23, 2008 - 19:21 ET by candanceI firmly believe life starts in a baby about five minutes after conception. Perhaps if a girl jumps right out of bed and washes out all the sperm then maybe she can save herself, I'll give her that. But waiting until the next morning to get a Plan B pill is too long.
At this stage in America, it isn't very feasible to send someone to prison for every abortion, I know that. But IMO I'd like to see it rank at least as high as child abuse.
Thanks, candance, for the
January 23, 2008 - 19:37 ET by JerThanks, candance, for the quick response. But you truly consider the deliberate taking of a human life only to be the approximate equivalent of child abuse?
Wouldn't many in the strict law and order camp consider that coddling murderers?
Jer
Well Jer
January 23, 2008 - 19:49 ET by candanceYou'll notice I said it should at least be child abuse. In a perfect world yes it would be treated as murder but in our society I know that would not be feasible.
However, I think doctors and nurses who run abortion clinics definitely SHOULD be charged with murder. And the Plan B pill should be outlawed from being produced in the first place and treated the same as illegal drugs.
If Roe V Wade were overturned and we got abortion down to *truly* being rare we could start passing laws to charge people for it. Then if it got to the point that people really understood and accepted it as murder, society could start treating it as murder.
candance, I appreciate and
January 23, 2008 - 20:38 ET by Jercandance, I appreciate and respect your views. And even though I've given the issue a good deal of thought over the years, mine still remain somewhat fluid as I continue to weigh a complex mixture of moral, religious, social, and common sensical considerations.
My current thinking is essentially this: Widely available means of birth control, including Plan B pills, combined with both intensive sex education and abstinence promotion--with a strong emphasis on the sanctity of human life and the enriching and ennobling qualities associated with adoption. Universal access to abortion services for termination of pregnancies, but only as an option very early in the gestation period, i.e. much more restrictive than the present law. After that time, the procedure could only be performed if there were a legitimate health risk to the life of the mother.
I think there is a distinction between a fertilized egg/zygote/first stage embryo as opposed to a well developed fetus. And I fear that returning the issue to the states will have the unintended consequence of more of the latter being destroyed than the former.
In other words, I believe there would be a strong liklihood of a pre-Roe return to coat hangars, back-alley quacks, and new-borns disposed of in a most horrific manner.
Of course, the rich kids could be flown to an out of state, or, out of country facility [which was a not uncommon practice before Roe].
But, then, I may think differently next week.
Jer
That is extremely flawed logic Bruzilla
January 23, 2008 - 11:16 ET by Dee BunkThat same logic gave us the Dem controlled house and Senate and now you want to give them the White House and let everything sale through? That combined with a liberal media and the Fairness doctrine will have conservative views almost eradicated from the public view.
The way you send a message is to campaign (volunteer and/or give money) and vote for the most conservative candidate out there. That is the only message that has any positive impact. The last "message" about a Presidential candidate not being conservative enough gave us 8 years (possibly 16) of Clinton.
Clinton and O'bama will have a litmus test and the RINO's won't, so you have a chance of getting judges who will at least uphold partial birth abortion and other limitations on abortion.
The Fairness doctrine is a certainty with a Dem Pres and Congress, you can't say that with any of the Republican candidates.
Wow!!! You're giving these
January 23, 2008 - 11:41 ET by BruzillaWow!!! You're giving these guys a helluvalot of credit. What's it based on? Have you forgotten McCain teaming with the Democrats to form the Gang of 14? Do you remember what led him to do that? It was a pending fight over appointing conservative judges!!! I don't see how you could possibly believe that McCain would ever appoint a judge who would not pass muster with both parties... litmus tests and all. Romney is a businessman much more than a politician. He has no principles, and will take whichever side of an issue benefits him the most at any particular time, which is what business folks do. I promise you he will back away from a conservative judge in a second if he feels threatened by the nomination. Guiliani... yeah... fat chance he tries to overturn Roe V. Wade. Huckabee... maybe, but his track history in AK shows he's open to moderating his opinion in order to get something done, even if the something is the wrong thing to do.
Again, as for the fairness doctrine, at this point I really don't care. I'm getting tired of Hannity and Limbaugh being more concerned with themselves than with the issues. An election is coming up? Want to get Hannity or Limbaugh off your back? Acuse them of something... that they hate blacks, that they hate crippled people, that they eat crippled people, whatever. Just make something up. These two pinheads will spend at least three weeks defending themselves and going to enormous lengths prove you wrong while your party coasts to victory under the radar. If Hannity and Limbaugh are so worried about the Fairness Doctrine then let them come out and work to elect someone who defend them against it. If they don't, fine. They got no one but themselves to blame.
So you are saying that Roberts and Alito are = to Ginsburg?
January 23, 2008 - 12:00 ET by Dee BunkWake up! McCain helped get them through. I don't like a lot of what he does but he's 100 X better than Clinton or Obama for the country.
Why are you even here if you don't care about the fairness doctrine? I could care less about your problems with Hannity or Limbaugh, they are not the point.
I'm here because I believe
January 23, 2008 - 14:03 ET by BruzillaI'm here because I believe in ultimate fairness. Is it fair when Hannity has some Democrat on and says:
SH: "Just tell me Sir. Do you agree with this position or not?"
Guest: "Well, that's hard to say I mean..."
SH: "Sir, you're not answering my question. Do you agree or not?"
Guest: "Well, I would have to say that under certain conditions..."
SH: "Sir, you're not answering my question. Do you agree or not? Yes or No?"
Guest: "I would have to say that..."
SH: "Yes or No Sir? Yes or No?"
Then he has Rudi on and says:
SH: "Would you make an effort to overturn Roe V. Wade?"
Rudi: "I would appoint judges who have a constructivist view".
SH: "That's good enough for me. On to the next question..."
I don't see that as being any more fair than when Lou Dobbs has his "Independents Day" special on CNN and has three liberal commentators on to discuss Republican points of view.
The truth is there is no fairness in the media as both sides abuse the system. As for the fairness doctrine... why should I care? What does the lack of one do for me now? I hear lots of divergent views, but who's worth listening to? I've listened to Rush since 1992, and have grown to the point where I'm sick of hearing him look out more for himself than his listeners. Boortz is even worse. Hannity kisses every republican's ass and offers no valuable information to make a decision on. So who's worth listening to anymore?
And so Roberts and Ailto = Ginsburg to you Bruzilla
January 23, 2008 - 18:17 ET by Dee BunkYou really don't care about principles, just on "lessons" and being right.
So let me get THIS right.
January 23, 2008 - 15:39 ET by Gary P JacksonSo let me get THIS right. Because you don't care for Sean and Rush, you think the fairness doctrine would be just fine. You have no concept of every action having a reaction, do you?
Before talk radio, and the emergence of other new media, the American public was lied to on a daily basis (just like today) and no one even knew the difference. That kept a dim controlled Congress for FORTY YEARS. And look at how those SOBs have screwed the country up. And you want to go back to that, all because of the fact Sean and Rush, and others, didn't endorse what ever candidate you wanted, even though it's their policy NOT to endorse candidates?
You are one selfish, misguided dude.
Gary P -Bruzilla just doesn't get it
January 23, 2008 - 18:15 ET by Dee BunkThe fairness doctrine has nothing to do with Hannity and Rush, it has to do with free speech. I guess Burzilla wouldn't mind if they came after Newsbusters either because they didn't endorse a candidate.
Yeah, the more I read his
January 23, 2008 - 20:57 ET by Gary P JacksonYeah, the more I read his posts, the more I figure it's all about him, screw everybody else, who cares about the country or the world. That's how we got in this mess to start with!
I disagree-most successful businessmen get their plan implemente
January 23, 2008 - 11:48 ET by PawpawNBruz, I totally disagree. You say successful businessmen placate to the masses and work to get common ground. Ain't no way! I disagree - most successful businessmen get their plan implemented! That's why they are successful and remain that way. The placaters may be famous for a little while, but then the masses turn on them!
You don't know much about
January 23, 2008 - 11:58 ET by BruzillaYou don't know much about business then. Look at any major business and see how they function. How many oil companies severed their contracts with Saudi Arabia when the kingdom nationalized the oil industry and took all their assets? None. How many food companies refused to recognize FDA regs for labeling? None. How many restaurants closed up shop in NYC rather than do away with transfats? None. Good business is always, always, a series of compromises. If your product is priced higher than customers want to pay, you can compromise on a lower price or you can go out of business.
Look at Romney. When he ran as a Republican Senatorial candidate, he was opposed to gay rights, gun control, and abortion... and he lost. When he ran for governor a few years later, he was pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, and pro-abortion... and he won. Now he wants to run for President. He tests the waters of the Republican voters, and compromises his positions again to get votes. Although this is a horrible way for a politican to act, it's 100% normal for a business person.
Say what!
January 23, 2008 - 12:13 ET by PawpawNLet's see your articles on your info. You said successful businessmen compromise their positions. They do not compromise, they make decisions that are best for the company they run or else they are out. Most successful businessmen are ahead of the curve, they have done things before the public reacts. Now as far as govt mandated situations, then that's a horse of a different color! We all know what silly rules/laws get passed by some local/state and the federal govt! So what I said is correct.
What articles do you need?
January 23, 2008 - 14:13 ET by BruzillaWhat articles do you need? Google "New Coke". Coca Cola spends millions of dollars developing, testing, and marketing a new formula. Then when it hits the public, they hate it. Most people refuse to buy it. Does Coke stick to their guns and say drink it or drink Pepsi? No. They compromise, bring back the old Coke, and phase out New Coke. It was a good compromise that cost them millions of dollars but kept them in business.
Speaking of soft drinks, Google Pepsi and Ludicris. They paid a fortune to sign him to a marketing deal, then lost a ton of money when people objected. It was another compromise that cost them money but benefitted them in the long run.
How about Wal Mart and healthcare? Wal Mart has a strict policy of getting people to always shop for the best bargain, and offered their employees healthcare insurance that was designed to encourage employees to shop as carefully for their healthcare needs as they did their clothing. When they started taking heat, they compromised their position and offered more traditional insurance plans.
You can call all of these things business decisions, but most business decisions are arrived at by compromising your position to move towards someone elses. I work in the healthcare insurance field and we're having to compromise our traditional insurance types to make them more affordable. We have to make a compromise between level of service and cost in order to maintain market share, so we do.
When you look at Romney, that's exactly what he does. If he has to compromise his position on abortion to get elected Governor, he does it. If he has to compromise his position again to be President, he does. That's how a business person works.
>this is me laughing<
January 23, 2008 - 14:46 ET by candanceHow about Wal Mart and healthcare? Wal Mart has a strict policy of getting people to always shop for the best bargain, and offered their employees healthcare insurance that was designed to encourage employees to shop as carefully for their healthcare needs as they did their clothing. When they started taking heat, they compromised their position and offered more traditional insurance plans.
ROFPMSL
Sure...if you think paying $1000 a month for a premium when you only see $200 a paycheck is a good compromise...yeah that's really "shopping for healthcare."
How can I put this nicely?
January 23, 2008 - 15:18 ET by Gary P JacksonBruzilla,
How can I put this nicely? You are out of your mind!
First, you want everyone to vote for a guy who is no longer in the hunt. What will that accomplish, other that giving that Jackass McCain a possible win?
Then, after you've done all you possibly can to make McCain the nominee, you're gonna jump ship and head over to vote for a friggin' dim?
Please hand in your Secret Republican Decoder Ring and kindly sit down.
Mitt/Rudy 08
January 23, 2008 - 10:54 ET by pearlMy best bet against Hillary is <blink>Mitt/Rudy 08</blink>
"Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away" New York Times Nov 2006
Romney, Guiliani, and McCain
January 23, 2008 - 11:01 ET by BruzillaRomney, Guiliani, and McCain are all strong Type-A personalities. They are all number one wannabes, and would never accept being a second bannana to someone who was previously their peer. The only candidate I see who would be willing to be a VP is Huckabee.
Rudy is a climber
January 23, 2008 - 11:07 ET by pearlI thought about that, but I think Rudy knows that his opportunity would then be guaranteed after 8 years.
Just think... 16 more years of GOP power in the White House.
NewsBusters will have plenty of ammo for years to come.
That's true, but guys like
January 23, 2008 - 11:17 ET by BruzillaThat's true, but guys like Romney, Guiliani, and McCain all have better things to do with their lives than waste eight years waiting. They aren't like Gore or, even worse, John Edwards, who don't really have anything else to do or who aren't in high demand for anything. When Gore accepted VP, he was just a second-rate senator, and Edwards was the same. Romney, Guiliani, and McCain are all successful types and know they would be better off pursing their own endeavors than playing second bananna for eight years.
McCain will retire
January 23, 2008 - 11:30 ET by pearlOk, let's think about this...
I think McCain will retire. He cant wait another 4-8 years.
What would Rudy be doing? I don't see what job he would take for the next 8 years. NY Governor? How does that help him in 8 years?
Fred returns to acting. He will be even more popular now as an actor. Maybe he could play a GOP president in a Hollywood movie. (sorry, dreaming...)
Mitt would have to become a Senator, I guess.
Huckabee could return to the airwaves and take Hannity's spot.
Now, the Dem side.
Obama will have to stay in the Senate where his luster will diminish with every yes/no/present vote.
Hillary. I don't have a clue.
I can see the only way
January 23, 2008 - 11:46 ET by BruzillaI can see the only way McCain would leave the Senate is under a sheet, and I don't see him retiring.
Rudi and Mitt can make millions of dollars sitting on boards and trading on their names. Both of these guys have provne themselves by holding high office, and I think that being President would be more like the peanuts on the sundae and not the cherry on top, i.e., it's nice, but not essential. Being mayor of NYC and a governor is the cherry on top, and they already have that.
Huckabee I can see making the rounds on TV as well, with "Former Republican Presidential Candidate" boldly displayed under his name.
→ Bruzilla
January 23, 2008 - 11:52 ET by Cool ArrowI can see the only way McCain would leave the Senate is under a sheet.
Robert Byrd wears a sheet and he's still in the Senate.
Is it, though? Only two VPs
January 23, 2008 - 11:28 ET by Hero SquadIs it, though? Only two VPs have gone from VP to POTUS in the last 165 years - Martin Van Buren and George H.W. Bush.
The only harder route people try is through the Senate. The last candidate to win the presidency while running as an active senator? Sen. John F. Kennedy. Warren G. Harding did it before him, and was the first in our nation's history to do so.
So history doesn't bode well for Clinton, McCain or Obama, should they get the nod.
If Giuliani doesn't get the nod, his next best road to the presidency might be to run for NY governor. That's the pool where most of our presidents come from.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Why and who deleted this from this open thread?
January 23, 2008 - 11:03 ET by vrwc13President Giuliani: My worst nightmare
If Rudy Giuliani is the Republican presidential nominee, I will follow James Dobson and walk away from the Republican Party rather than vote for a promise breaking, serial philandering, pro-gay rights, pro-abortion rights, anti-gun liberal who happened to be at the right place at the right time on 9/11. Jane Chastain http://www.worldnetd...
Repubilcan Nominee Romney: Equates to President Hillary Clinton or BH Obama
R D Helm says:
In the highly unlikely event that Huckabee wins the nomination, the liberal MSM is going to go after him with both barrels. I promise you, the "Huckabee is a Religous Kook" and similar stories, will be flooding the airwaves within hours of his getting the nomination. I would guess the first round of these stories have already been written and are loaded up and ready to go.
Why do you think he has gotten so much support from the liberal MSM to begin with? Believe me, they would love nothing more than to be able to crucify this man if he is the republican nominee. R D Helm
http://newsbusters.o...
Britcom replys:
I beg your pardon, are you attacking Huckabee on the basis of his faith? Huckabee's faith (Baptist) is far less Kooky than Romney's (Mormon) or Giuliani's (Roman Catholic) and McCain (Who can't make up his mind if he is an Episcopal or a Baptist) is a Kook without equal in the Republican Party, just look at his record. Britcom http://newsbusters.o...
Ann adds:
And, of course, Romney is a Mormon. Even a loser Mormon like Sen. Harry Reid claims to be pro-life. So having a candidate with a wacky religion isn't all bad. Ann Coulter - http://www.worldnetd...
The CIA:
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.) - https://www.cia.gov/...
So if you think the Republicans went after Romney’s religion, wait ‘til the Democrats get hold of it. And it won’t be Clinton/Obama, it will be their attack dogs NewsweekTimeEtAlMSM.
To my many Mormon friends here at NB, if Romney is the candidate, be ready to defend your faith to it’s minute details. As the MSM reveals ALL, you will be asked by friends, co-workers, and neighbors everything from 3 heavens to lifting of veils in heaven to God the Father and Jesus as men before they were God. Be ready!
v
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
The Romney police...
January 23, 2008 - 11:04 ET by vrwc13The Romney police...
→ vrwc13
January 23, 2008 - 11:08 ET by Cool ArrowScary isn't it?
...naa...just look at the
January 23, 2008 - 11:16 ET by vrwc13...naa...just look at the most recent NB poll...
me thinks what the Paulites did to national polls, the Romneyites have done here. The poll is soooo far lopsided it is more than obvious what is going on.
btw: Team Romney infiltrated Club for Growth, why not NB? NB gets some pretty high recognition as a banner site for conservatives, so let's make sure Romney is vaulted here!
v
but take heart:
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
just look at the most recent NB poll...compared to national one
January 23, 2008 - 11:30 ET by vrwc13Date Giuliani Huckabee Thompson Romney McCain
1/23/2008 11% 17% n/a 19% 24%
1/22/2008 10% 16% n/a 19% 24%
1/21/2008 10% 15% 10% 19% 25%
1/20/2008 8% 17% 12% 20% 23%
1/19/2008 9% 19% 11% 20% 23%
1/18/2008 10% 22% 12% 19% 21%
1/17/2008 11% 23% 12% 18% 20%
1/16/2008 12% 23% 11% 15% 22%
1/15/2008 11% 21% 12% 13% 22%
1/14/2008 11% 20% 12% 13% 23%
1/13/2008 10% 19% 12% 14% 24%
1/12/2008 9% 19% 13% 16% 24%
1/11/2008 9% 20% 11% 20% 22%
1/10/2008 10% 22% 10% 18% 18%
1/9/2008 9% 22% 12% 19% 19%
1/8/2008 13% 21% 11% 19% 18%
1/7/2008 17% 20% 11% 15% 19%
1/6/2008 17% 19% 13% 15% 19%
1/5/2008 16% 18% 11% 16% 20%
1/4/2008 14% 16% 13% 17% 18%
1/3/2008 13% 16% 13% 18% 17%
http://rasmussenrepo...
v
"That's your opinion Christopher." Fred Thompson
Thats crazy talk vrwc
January 23, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Dee BunkYou can tell by the comments here that most people support Romney as a second choice.
Paranoid Delusions from Huckster Supporters
January 23, 2008 - 20:57 ET by PopularTechThe NewsBusters Polls are accurate, right before Thompson dropped out, he was leading the polls with Romney in Second, now it is clear that Romney was many people's second choice after Thompson as the new poll reflects that.
The Conservative Blog-o-sphere does not represent national polls. You might want to read other conservative Blogs as the Anti-Huckabee sentiment was overwhelming. The Anti-Huckabee vote was split between Thompson, Romney, Rudy, Hunter and Tancredo. Many are Anti-McCain for other reasons, largely those for him do not really know much about him.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Hunter endorses
January 23, 2008 - 21:02 ET by vrwc13Hunter endorses Huckabee...how 'bout that?
v
Disappointing
January 23, 2008 - 21:04 ET by OldSailor88I still don't really believe the story. I would have voted for Hunter. Not a snowball's chance in Hell I would have or will vote for Gomer Pyle.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
Greatly disappointed in Hunter
January 23, 2008 - 22:25 ET by PopularTechWhat can I say but Hunter obviously has bad judgement here.
How about if Huckabee is nominated I will vote for Obama and enough Republicans will not vote that you are guaranteed a Dem win.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
I will vote for Obama
January 23, 2008 - 22:33 ET by MightyMouthI would say do it if Americans would learn from their mistakes...but alas...we don't
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
"How about if Huckabee is nominated I will vote for Obama..." PT
January 24, 2008 - 10:11 ET by vrwc13...sounds like a kid saying "play my way or I will take my ball and go home"...
o.k. Pop, we will all back Romney just so you don't go and vote for Obama....
v
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
If Hucklebee is Presidnet,
January 24, 2008 - 10:16 ET by Free StinkerIf Hucklebee is Presidnet, I see him appointing the same SCOTUS judges as Hillary or McAmensty.
For any of the por-choice things Rudy or Mitt have Done, the only thing they can do as President that would have any effect on abortion would be their SCOTUS appointees.
Rudy has even promised Judges like Alito.
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
Your post was deleted?
January 24, 2008 - 10:57 ET by RJWhich one would that be? Weren't you posting this same rant on seveal threads?
Wha wha what?
January 23, 2008 - 11:09 ET by coolerHey was in the race?
Fred is mirror image to Obama
January 23, 2008 - 11:13 ET by pearlFred was always the GOP version of Obama.
Great at reading speeches. Not so great at debates and press conferences. (He's even slow to a Southerner)
The GOP wanted this
January 23, 2008 - 11:37 ET by candanceWhile everyone complains and wonders how we ended up in our current fix, I'd like to assert my view that Republicans brought this all on themselves.
Three months ago we had a handful of conservatives running and a handful of RINOs. Folks like Hunter and Tancredo were thoroughly ignored. People like Sean Hannity immediately decided a conservative couldn't win so they began to pitch "a vote for Hunter is a vote for Hillary." Right here on NB, social conservatives were told by many that fiscal conservation was the real base of the GOP and social issues came second. As much as I love Rush Limbaugh, he did a bad job of guiding Republicans toward the right path.
Then came the backlash. Huckabee played up his religious ties, enticing pro-life voters who were angry at the GOP leadership The pro-life movement was determined to show Republicans they couldn't win an election without it.
Enter Fred. A right-of-center moderate who looks like the best choice. Only problem is, he's been in politics a long time and has made a lot of Republican enemies not to mention he underestimates how divided the party is. With Hannity already endorsing RINOs and pro-life Democrats sworn to Huckabee, the battle lines are already drawn and Fred cannot pull enough votes from either side.
And this is where we are today. Christians have turned on James Dobson and Ann Coulter for the first time to keep Huckabee afloat, apparently for no other reason than to spite the GOP. There are not enough Republican votes to get Romney in office without them.
IMO we have Fox News and conservative radio to thank for this situation. Giuliani was touted from the very beginning as the only person who could win and those who disagreed were called wishful thinkers. The GOP leadership sabeutaged their own party to get what they wanted.
No...
January 23, 2008 - 12:02 ET by vrwc13"And this is where we are today. Christians have turned on James Dobson and Ann Coulter for the first time to keep Huckabee afloat, apparently for no other reason than to spite the GOP." candance
...no to protect the rights of a group who will lose another 3,000 of their kind today...
v
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
vrwc
January 23, 2008 - 12:12 ET by candanceHey dude listen, I'm a big believer in stopping abortion too. I'm not telling you to vote for a RINO. Did you know Duncan Hunter was pro-life? What about Tancredo? I'm just saying people flock to Huckabee because he's pro-life yet ignore much better candidates who are equally concerned about the issue and have actually worked in Congress where they tried to stop it.
I'd have more respect for you if you said you were writing in Hunter's name because he is every bit as conservative as Huckabee and also a better candidate in other areas too. Huckabee is not the be-all-end-all of the pro-life movement.
Hunter, Tancredo, and Thompson always came up on the top...
January 23, 2008 - 12:30 ET by vrwc13Hunter, Tancredo, and Thompson always came up on the top of my lists on the on-line polls. I would have supported any one of them. But alas, they are no longer in the race.
Now we have to get the best candidate left running to support our countries social conservative values. And Giuliani, McCain, and Romney do not fit the bill.
If it comes down to it, I can support McCain, and hope for the best. With Giuliani and Romney, the answer is probably different.
v
in any case:
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. - Billy Graham
I agree
January 23, 2008 - 12:27 ET by SouthJersey1953It has been frustrating the way the Conservative voices have been harping on Rudy (or McCain) as our best chance of beating Hellary. IF they had supported the true conservatives in the race instead of the RINOs, we COULD have defeated anyone on the Dim side. Instead, all they managed to do is split the party wide open. I don't think the bleeding can be stopped in time.....
True conservatives are SICK AND TIRED of being lied to and misled......
It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong
Forget politics! This
January 23, 2008 - 12:05 ET by Roger the ShrubberForget politics! This shrubber cannot decide what to get most excited about, since today is the birthday of two of the Kings of Hollywood, Buck Rogers AND MacGyver...
At least I can fall back on one of this shrubbers fav actors, who turns 64 today: Roy Batty.
I've seen things you people
January 23, 2008 - 12:25 ET by Jack BauerI've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Excellent quote Jack
January 23, 2008 - 13:08 ET by Carl KolchakExcellent quote Jack. Did anyone see the Last Cut version that recently came out? I didn't see it, but was wondering if people thought it was better than the director's cut. I liked the director's cut better than the original.
How about this scene?
Holden Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.
Leon My mother?
HoldenYeah.
Leon Let me tell you about my mother
Carl the K... thanks for
January 23, 2008 - 14:05 ET by Jack BauerCarl the K... thanks for reminding me about that other "last" cut.
I meant to check it out and forgot. Roy's last lines have to be amongst the most memorable ever in a movie. Brilliant.
Hands up all those who wanted the Androids to win!! And DID they, really???
You gotta love Brion James,
January 23, 2008 - 14:05 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou gotta love Brion James, eh, Carl?
Carl, I actually picked
January 23, 2008 - 18:32 ET by hydrodynDMCarl,
I actually picked up the four DVD set around Christmas time but have yet to watch it. I figured I'd re-watch the other versions before getting the final end-all-be-all last cut.
Having said that, I'll have to admit that I've always liked Deckard's voice-over in the original version of the movie, even though I guess that makes me a philistine in the eyes of hard core fans of the film. Very quotable.
Sushi. That's what my ex-wife called me - cold fish.
Best SiFi movie ever done
January 23, 2008 - 13:12 ET by Airforce_5_OBest SiFi movie ever done IMO.
Air -- Ridley's Alien edges
January 23, 2008 - 14:07 ET by Jack BauerAir -- Ridley's Alien edges Ridley's Bladerunner for me.
But it's close.
Matt Le Blanc's Lost in Space didn't quite make the cut huh?
Jack
January 23, 2008 - 14:30 ET by Airforce_5_OI read the original story “Do Android dream of Electric Sheep” as a young SiFi fan. Aliens was great and my second fav. Lost in Space was a waste in space. Glad I didn’t see it in the theater. Wrath of Khan was the best of the Star Trek is up there.
Air -- me too. Read an
January 23, 2008 - 14:36 ET by Jack BauerAir -- me too. Read an article about Philip K, then immediately went out and bought every novel he wrote.
Not great literature, but amazing ideas. I reaslly must re-read him.
And his take on sci-fi has been plundered by many other writers who fancy themselves artists. Such as Martin Amis.
The Man in the High Castle was one of my faves at the time.
Did you say Khan?
January 23, 2008 - 18:11 ET by Roger the ShrubberDid you say Khan?
Roger, A few years ago
January 23, 2008 - 18:20 ET by hydrodynDMRoger,
A few years ago when a buddy of mine told me he and his wife where gonna have their first child, the first thing I suggested was that they name him or her Khan.
That way, in the years ahead when it was time for the kids to come in for dinner, he could step out his front door and yell "Khaaaaaaaaaan" in his best Shatner voice.
He thought it was a good idea - his wife - not so much.
You are killing me
January 23, 2008 - 21:06 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou are killing me tonight.
Killing me!
True, but Molly Ringwald's
January 23, 2008 - 14:40 ET by Roger the ShrubberTrue, but Molly Ringwald's performance in Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone almost makes up for that! Plus, Lacy Chabert in a body suit ain't bad!
shrubbo, thanks for the
January 23, 2008 - 14:47 ET by Jack Bauershrubbo, thanks for the h/t
Yeah, Lacy can adventure in my forbidden zone anytime she likes!
As for Spacehunter... you know you're watching a bad sci-fi movie when one of the plot key words is "Hit In Crotch"
Ed Wood's "Plan 9 from
January 23, 2008 - 16:01 ET by Airforce_5_OEd Wood's "Plan 9 from Outer Space" is a better movie than Spacehunter.
Lacy!!!!!!! That's all I have to say about that.
Dude, How could you
January 23, 2008 - 18:24 ET by hydrodynDMDude,
How could you mention Spacehunter and not mention Cherry 2000?
Dana Jacobson
January 23, 2008 - 12:15 ET by DCC1ESPN suspends Dana Jacobson for a week after her drunken anti Christian rant last week. Good for ESPN, fair is fair. Wonder if hat NB article had anything to do with this???
Dana's suspension
January 23, 2008 - 12:20 ET by Cool ArrowSo for how long did ESPN suspend Rush Limbaugh?
I'm just sayin'
Permanently! Woo-hoo!
January 23, 2008 - 16:28 ET by balboaPermanently! Woo-hoo!
Why does that excite you, bal?
January 23, 2008 - 17:12 ET by RJWhy does that excite you, bal?
RJ, Cuz I don't think he
January 23, 2008 - 19:28 ET by balboaRJ,
Cuz I don't think he belongs on a football show?
Bal, who knew you're such a sports purist?
January 23, 2008 - 20:33 ET by RJ"Woo hoo?" ...not that I believe you for a second.
Rush on a football show was
January 23, 2008 - 20:34 ET by balboaRush on a football show was a ratings / publicity stunt. He has as much business on that show as Stephen A. Smith on a political show.
Who knew you were such a purist?
January 23, 2008 - 20:44 ET by RJI'm sure you object to NBC forcing Olbermann on sport's fans, too.
I think he should have stuck
January 23, 2008 - 20:48 ET by balboaI think he should have stuck with sports. I think he felt like he wanted to do "something serious" (because he's so smart, doncha know).
balboa, I was talking about NBC making Olbermann
January 23, 2008 - 21:09 ET by RJan "opinion-ator" at and before their broadcast football games. Since you don't like the political aura that Rush brings, I'm sure a purist like you also feels the same way about Olbermann's controversial political aura at football games.
No I think that's pretty
January 23, 2008 - 21:12 ET by balboaNo I think that's pretty stupid, too. You're either a political commentator or a sportscaster. You can't do both.
Good for you, bal
January 23, 2008 - 21:20 ET by RJI agree with you....even about Rush at football games....although I think their reaction to what he said was phony and overblown.
I've never heard Keith at NBC games (I turn the channel) but I'm betting that, since he's one of their own, he has more lattitude than Rush had on ESPN.
RJ...I have seen Olbermann
January 23, 2008 - 21:23 ET by JerRJ...I have seen Olbermann for literally about 3 minutes on that venue with Costas. Do you know of any politically-charged statements he has made?
Jer
No, Jer. I turn the channel. Won't watch him....EVER
January 23, 2008 - 21:31 ET by RJ...but as bal and I have agreed in this thread, it's inappropriate to have ANY controversial political commentator as an announcer at sports events. Both Rush and Olbermann bring unavoidable and unnecessary baggage to the game.
Also, in Olbermann's case, I know of at least one occasion where they broadcast his "Countdown" show on the same channel just prior to the game, deliberately polluting the sports venue with his politics.
RJ...if I can put up with
January 23, 2008 - 21:39 ET by JerRJ...if I can put up with an obnoxious fraud like O'Reilly for the past nine years, surely you can stand an occasional few minutes of KO.
[Actually, I don't blame you. There's no reason he should be on that sports show.]
Jer
No thanks, Jer...I'll pass
January 23, 2008 - 21:43 ET by RJI also don't watch or listen to O'Reilly or Hannity and Colmes....
Fred Thompson feels let down
January 23, 2008 - 12:27 ET by Lame CherryI received a note from Mr. Thompson and from his short tone one can read he feels very let down.
Fred is not about to announce support for anyone as that is not his style. His withdrawing from the race naturally boosts Romney and it might be the factor he considered as dividing the Conservative vote has been what was helping McCain and knowing Fred for assessing situations and fishing or cutting bait..........he simply was pragmatic and will move on.
I sincerely told him to stay around as this nation requires him as a Sec. of State in a GOP victory.
Romney now without Hunter and Thompson will now pool those resources as Rudy is draining the liberal McCain voters into Florida.
I do not see Huckabee moving forward as his funds are drained. If Romney did not have the millions to run on, McCain might be able to whore money him out but McCain is going to level off at about 33 and drop to 23 in the next races as the GOP leaves him behind.
Romney though if he wins is going to have to nominate a hell for leather Dick Cheney type to appease the Conservatives. While I adore Fred, I see him as better suited as the hammer in State.........it might sound a bit off course, but I definitely could see a very connected woman with the Bush machine, Conservatives and the think tanks of noted policy books perhaps being a major consideration by Romney and that being Lynn Cheney.
She has the brilliance, speaking ability, policy wonk and that homosexual drama going on which liberal women suck up to in Oprah couch gossip of anguish one goes through in a family.
I would suggest then as Madame Argentina got the torch passed that, it is feasable for a Romney/Cheney ticket.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Wow! That's thinkin' out of
January 23, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Gary P JacksonWow! That's thinkin' out of the box!
I like it!
OIL-under $87 now!!
January 23, 2008 - 12:53 ET by PawpawNWill we read about it, hear about it, etc?? OIL-under $87 now!!
→ Oil
January 23, 2008 - 12:56 ET by Cool ArrowAnd the DOW is down 2.2%.
Happy days.
Were you wearing a party hat
January 23, 2008 - 14:02 ET by Roger the ShrubberWere you wearing a party hat and shaking a noisemaker while writing that?
Cool Arrow,
January 23, 2008 - 14:52 ET by Hero SquadCool Arrow, today.
:-)
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Oil will continue to fall.
January 23, 2008 - 13:04 ET by bassndudeOil will continue to fall. The price of oil it tied directly to the speculators, not the volume so much, anymore. There is more than enough oil being pumped in the world. As much as the refineries can take care of. Build more refineries, the price of gas will start to fall, untill you build to many. Then competition for the oil will then be bid up by the refiners.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
So true, what do you think
January 23, 2008 - 20:47 ET by general companySo true, what do you think about the Feds building refineries on the defunct military bases by the Gulf and Pacific coast and then leasing them to Big oil ?
Iran hates low oil prices!
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest". Mark Twain
AGW rhetoric cooling down?
January 23, 2008 - 13:23 ET by LionKingIs it me or is the AGW rhetoric cooling down?
[Dallas metroplex is hovering around 32 degrees.]
It's not hot enough.
January 23, 2008 - 14:06 ET by Airforce_5_OIt's not hot enough.
LK, Perhaps the overblown
January 23, 2008 - 14:08 ET by Chris NormanLK,
Perhaps the overblown rhetoric from the blowhard Al Gore is in the process of blowing itself out?
Maybe the MSM is right
January 23, 2008 - 14:20 ET by dvdaughtryAmerica definetely still has a racist streak...
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
I guess white is the new black.
January 23, 2008 - 19:52 ET by Britcom-
Who was the last Senator to
January 23, 2008 - 14:39 ET by ricklailWho was the last Senator to get elected president? I thought of LBJ but he was VP when elected. The last presidents I remember have been governors.
The last House member would have been Kennedy. Ford served in the House but he was never elected. As a matter of fact he lost to a governor. (Carter was not much of anything but he did beat Ford.)
It seems that governors have a better track record as far as getting elected to the presidency than Congresscritiers.
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
I posted this elsewhere
January 23, 2008 - 14:57 ET by Hero SquadI posted this elsewhere today. Kennedy was the last sitting Senator to be elected president.
Warren G. Harding was the first.
Those are the only two in the history of our nation; and coincidentally, neither completed their first term.
Sitting VPs don't fare much better (Van Buren and the elder Bush are the only two in the last 165 years.)
If you want to be president, governor is the way to go (Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Roosevelt...) Voters tend to prefer someone with executive experience.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Harding and Hoover were more than Senators
January 23, 2008 - 17:48 ET by BritcomHarding was a Lt. Governor of Ohio before he was a Senator. He defeated Cox who was Governor of Ohio.
Hoover was a Senator, but he was also a Cabinet Secretary (Commerce) in the previous administration and a very popular humanitarian. He defeated Smith who was Governor of NY.
Kennedy was not running against a Governor, he ran against Nixon, a former VP. The race was so close that some thought Nixon won, we may never know because Nixon conceded. (There may have been some funny business in Chicago.)
All good info. My only
January 24, 2008 - 12:52 ET by Hero SquadAll good info. My only point was that history has not been kind to someone running for office who was a sitting senator while he was running. And yet many candidates think that's the way to go.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Its great exposure for becoming a VP pick
January 25, 2008 - 09:07 ET by Britcom-
Little-People Runnin Wild
January 23, 2008 - 15:23 ET by third eyeHas anyone seen Michael Dukakis recently?
http://news.ninemsn....
Cool Arrow
January 23, 2008 - 16:52 ET by PawpawNDow up approx 300, about a 2.5 % increase, and a 5% turn around from earlier today. And oil still low!
I guess the MSM and the dims
January 23, 2008 - 17:06 ET by Gary P JacksonI guess the MSM and the dims need too cheer a little harder for that recession, huh?
FLASH: Hunter endorses Huckabee
January 23, 2008 - 17:25 ET by BritcomSource: CNN
hmmm....imagine that! "Mike Huckabee is...
January 23, 2008 - 17:40 ET by vrwc13hmmm....imagine that!
"Mike Huckabee is a man of outstanding character and integrity. I saw that
character over the last year of campaigning and was greatly impressed." Hunter
v
"Faith doesn't just influence me. It really defines me. I don't have to wake up every day wondering what do I need to believe," Huckabee says in the ad. "Let us never sacrifice our principles for anybody's politics. Not now, not ever."
HUCKABEE/HUNTER '08
Quite an endorsement
January 23, 2008 - 17:49 ET by LionKingI have a lot of respect for Duncan Hunter. His endorsement certainly is interesting.
Huckabee runs Hunter as VP
January 23, 2008 - 17:55 ET by vrwc13Huckabee runs Hunter as VP and politically can pick up CA votes. As VP Hunter can pursue protecting our borders and other national security issues!
Then Hunter is free to run again for pres in 2016!
v
HUCKABEE/HUNTER '08 (should get hillorama's attention)
Once the election is over
January 23, 2008 - 20:06 ET by Jack BauerOnce the election is over and won, don't new Presidents traditionally find things for the VP, not to do?
I think the job description of the Commander-in-Chief includes the idea that HE is in charge of national security and the border. Not the VP.
Wow vrwc
January 23, 2008 - 19:27 ET by candanceThis is an interesting development. I'll think about this.
"So yes... I would rather
January 23, 2008 - 17:42 ET by ckc1227"So yes... I would rather vote for a Democrat
and let him/her royally screw the country up than vote for a RINO.
Maybe, if Clinton or Obama wins, the Republicans will finally get the
message that we are tired of RINO candidates, and in 2012 they'll run
someone who's actually a conservative. If we vote for a RINO, we're
just condoning this pathetic behavior and we'll have to endure four or
eight years of mediocre performance, which I'll take a pass on."
As opposed to what, 8-16 years of horrible rule under the dems? Yeah, that worked out great the last time we did that. Yep, we really taught Bush senior a lesson, lol. Poor guy had to go back to being just another average millionaire joe. How he manages to make it through each day I'll never understand. Meanwhile, we're(that's you and me, the regular folks) still paying for the damage done by the democrat president from 1976-1980, not to mention the one we had in the 90's. Boy, did we show 'em. And in the end we voted in a RINO to replace the guy anyway, lol. It will be the same this time. After the dems royally screw this country, we'll be begging for RINO.
FYI, one of the "true" conservative candidates we had this year, Duncan Hunter, is endorsing Huckabee. How can that be?
Conservatives better get a clue. You know what happens when you assume things, don't you? Meanwhile, 30+ years later, and we still haven't managed to overturn Roe, yet for some reason, some conservatives think it will be possible to undo policies put in place over the next 8-16 by a democrat White House AND Congress. Wake up. Once their socialist agenda becomes official US policy, there will be no undoing it.
My stock in Hunter just
January 23, 2008 - 21:12 ET by Gary P JacksonMy stock in Hunter just fell through the floor! That he could endorse a liberal dimocrat proves that members of Congress are not ready to lead. Hate to say that too, because I liked Hunter.
As for the rest of your post, you are dead on! Republicans out there looking for the "true" conservative are on a mythical quest. No one is a pure anything. If we don't get our act together, John "I'll sell out the Republicans at the drop of a hat" McCain will be our nominee. Or, worse yet Goober Huckabee! Then we will proceed to get our tails handed to us in the general elections. I for one have no interest or desire to see my Nation turn into a socialized state.
It is time to close ranks, and get behind the front runner, and get ready to win in November!
Go Romney!
Gary, my first thought when I heard about Hunter was
January 23, 2008 - 21:26 ET by RJ"I guess he's not as true a conservative as we thought."
My second thought was "Well, they're ALL politicans, aren't they? I wonder whose back is being scratched"
You got that right! I am
January 24, 2008 - 01:15 ET by Gary P JacksonYou got that right! I am disappointed in him.
But frankly, Huckabee is just about to run out of steam. He's only had one good showing. It will be an honest to goodness miracle if he's still around after Super Tuesday.
Al Franken turns on the charm
January 23, 2008 - 21:43 ET by nkviking75From the Minneapolis Star-Tribune: Al Franken mocks and berates a conservative student at the college where Paul Wellstone was once a professor.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Duncan Hunter Needs to Learn About Huckabee
January 23, 2008 - 23:35 ET by PopularTechIt is apparently obvious Duncan Hunter knows absolutely nothing about the Huckster:
Ann Coulter: “Huckabee is the Republican Jimmy Carter” (Video) (4min)
Ann Coulter: "Huckabee Stupid and easily led" (Video) (2min)
Ann Coulter: "Liberals Adore Huckabee" (Video) (3min)
Rush Limbaugh: Huck 'not a conservative' (The Politico)
"Ladies and gentlemen, Gov. Huckabee, mighty fine man and is a great Christian, is not a conservative, he’s just not. If you look at his record as governor, he’s got some conservative tendencies on things but he’s certainly not the most conservative of the candidates running on the Republican side." - Rush Limbaugh
Rush Limbaugh: Huckabee Is No Ronald Reagan (Rush Limbaugh)
There’s a Huckabee Born Every Minute (Ann Coulter, Human Events)
"I guess Huckabee is one of those pro-sodomy, pro-gay marriage, pro-evolution evangelical Christians" - Ann Coulter
George Will on Mike Huckabee (Video) (1min)
Mike Huckabee Roundhouse Kicked (Video) (1min)
Another Man From Hope. Who is Mike Huckabee? (The Wall Street Journal)
Christian conservatives: Beware of Huckabee (WorldNetDaily)
Meet the Huckster (The San Diego Union-Tribune)
Mike Huckabee is far from being Reagan's heir (The Wall Street Journal)
Obama: Mike Huckabee is My Favorite GOP Candidate (Newsmax)
The Huckabee Hustle (American Thinker)
The False Conservative (Robert Novak, Townhall)
Background:
Age: 52
Education:
- Ordained to ministry Southern Baptist Convention, 1974
- B.A. Religion, Ouachita Baptist University, 1976
Crime and Punishment:
Mike Huckabee's Clemency Record Is Under Scrutiny (FOXNews)
- Huckabee granted 1,033 pardons and commutations, including 12 convicted murderers
Mike Huckabee Supported Early Release for Meth Dealers (Standard Newswire)
Mother of Dumond Victim: "If not for Huckabee, she’d be here for Christmas" (Video) (1min)
Why parole a monster like Green?
Ethics:
NBC Investigates Huckabee's Ethical Shortcomings (Video) (2min)
A Son’s Past Deeds (Dog Torture) Come Back To Bite Huckabee (Newsweek)
Huck's gift-givers ended up in state posts (Politico)
Huckabee Says Flying Confederate Flag a State Issue (The Washington Post)
Huckabee Signed '98 Ad Urging Women to 'Graciously Submit' to Husbands
Education:
Huckabee Backs No Child Left Behind (The Hill)
Huckabee on Education: No to Vouchers, Let Government Fix It (Standard Newswire)
Homeschoolers beware! (WorldNetDaily)
- Huckabee received the endorsement of the New Hampshire NEA
HomeSchoolers Lose Ground with New Law signed by Governor Huckabee (Home School Legal Defense Association)
Fiscal Record:
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK (Video) (1min)
Huckabee is a Net Tax Hiker of over $505 Million Dollars (Video) (1min)
A Taxing Endeavor (National Review Online)
Arkansas Taxes Up $642 Million Under Huckabee, Report Shows (CNSNews)
Huckabee's Fiscal Record (FactCheck.org)
Huckabee: The Biggest Big-Government Conservative (FOXNews)
Mike Huckabee's Arkansas Record (Club for Growth)
Mike Huckabee is a Liberal - Updated Huckabee White Paper (Club for Growth)
- Immediately upon taking office he signed a sales tax hike in 1996
- He raised taxes on gasoline in 1999
- He supported an internet sales tax in 2001
- He created a $5.25 per day bed-tax on private nursing home patients in 2001
- He publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002
- He proposed another sales take hike in 2002 to fund education improvements
- He raised taxes on cigarettes in 2003
- He opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003
- He allowed a 17% sales tax increase to become law in 2004
- He increased taxes in the state by more than Bill Clinton did
- He increased state spending 65.3% from 1996 to 2004
- The number of state government workers rose 20% during his tenure
- Governor Huckabee refused to pledge not to raise taxes if elected President
Tax Hike Mike
- Overall, Huckabee’s substantial tax hikes far surpassed his modest tax cuts, with the average tax burden increasing by a whopping 47% over his tenure.
Foreign Policy:
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo (Video) (1min)
Mike Huckabee Criticizes Bush Administration for 'Bunker Mentality' on Iraq (FOXNews)
The Holiday Inn Express Candidate (National Review Online)
The Problem With Pastor Mike (National Review Online)
Global Warming:
Huckabee is the only Republican candidate to support the economy crippling Cap and Trade CO2 Legislation, Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) Regulation and Renewable Energy Standards
Illegal Immigration:
Laura Ingraham: Huckabee Is A "Big Loser" On Immigration (Audio) (5min)
Huckabee Supported Scholarships for Illegal Aliens (Video) (5min)
Fact Checker: Pinocchios for Huckabee on Illegals (Washington Post)
Huckabee aid plan for illegal aliens draws 'venom, anger' (Arkansas News Bureau)
Huckabee Liberal on Immigration (Standard Newswire)
Huckabee offered 'no-cost' deal for Mexican Consulate (WorldNetDaily)
Huckabee promotes 'open door' policy at League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) convention (Arkansas News Bureau)
Immigration bill un-Christian, anti-life, governor says (Arkansas News Bureau)
Mike Huckabee Supported Bill to Give Driver's Licenses to Illegal Aliens (Arkansas Journal)
Tancredo endorses Romney: "You bet your life Huckabee was a factor" (Hot Air)
Religion:
Huckabee And Ahmadinejad: Perfect Together?
Mike Huckabee to speak at strongly anti-Catholic preacher's church
Pastor, Can You Spare Us? (National Review Online)
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Driving home tonight I
January 24, 2008 - 00:53 ET by bigtimerDriving home tonight I heard about Hunter supporting Huck...
I was crestfallen...just like I was yesterday...
As one of the first posters putting Thompson's name out here...then having Thompson/Hunter '08 for a very long time now...I just don't know what to think anymore...
I have been taken in before more than once... of course to find out later by delving and reading a lot ect...and the older I get sometimes the more I wonder if I am getting smarter or dumber when it comes to people.
I am going back to what I really believe and have posted before a few times and do wish it could be so for our country...
Cheney/Bolton or Bolton/Cheney...
Wouldn't this clean us up fast if there was anyway possibility... little by little with waht they would have to work with in congress...both say what they think to the msm..they would be in a major major tizzy...and they both have gravitas ...( a word I hated and still do by the msm...all for an agenda no matter who they are talking about)
Well...so much for my late night partial rant...
The problem with what we know
January 24, 2008 - 01:59 ET by PopularTechI really believe that Hunter honestly does not know Huckabee's background well enough and has been getting some seriously bad advice from someone. If you just look at Huckabee in some of the debates or listen to his soundbites he comes off as the ultimate conservative until you realize it is all a show. Hunter's voting record and stance on just about every issue is legitimate. But I have a feeling there is absolutely no research going on with some of these candidates and definitely not with the voters.
My problem with Hunter was that in one debate he refused to promise not to raise taxes which made me look at his voting record:
Duncan Hunter's Voting Record
He is definitely strong on Tax Cuts but less so on reducing spending. Which makes him much more like Bush, not horrible but not a pure fiscal conservative.
Maybe we have learned something about Hunter that we did not know until he did this.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Hey Pt... I am going to
January 24, 2008 - 02:14 ET by bigtimerHey Pt...
I am going to try this again only be short and to the point...(I lost my first post to you by my own stupdity)...
I have had nothing but admiration for Hunter for so long now I could never explain it, I have watched/listened to him and his votes forever...by the same token it is his job to know or investigate why he endorses somebody..there is no excuse to do otherwise....
That goes for all of them on both sides of the aisle....but what the hell it is politics and we cannot expect anything different ...unfortunately.
Btw...I have had tears roll down my cheeks over some people I was almost rabid for only to find out later that I was glad they lost...which also brought tears to my eyes in the long run...
Who do you ever really trust?
I just feel as a party of some sorts we must stay together...we have too much to lose if we don't...when I say we I mean this country...
....any one of the Three Stooges would be devasting with the way congress is in Novemember.
Mitt Romney: "I like mandates."
January 24, 2008 - 01:37 ET by BritcomSource: The American Spectator
Brit... .....Whatever. B
January 24, 2008 - 01:47 ET by bigtimerBrit...
.....Whatever.
Bolton/Cheney '08!
Cheney/Bolton '08!
Works for me...
Mitt Romney The Reality
January 24, 2008 - 02:06 ET by PopularTechAnn Coulter: "Romney is Strongest GOP Candidate" (Video) (4min)
Age: 60
Education:
- B.A. Brigham Young University, 1971
- J.D. Harvard University, 1975
- M.B.A. Harvard University, 1975
Political Experience:
- Governor of Massachusetts, 2003-2007
Professional Experience:
- Vice President, Bain and Company, Incorporated, 1978-1984
- CEO, Bain Capital, Incorporated, 1984-1998
- CEO, Bain and Company, Incorporated, 1991-1993
- President, Salt Lake Winter Olympics Organizing Committee, 1999-2002
Endorsements:
Ann Coulter Endorses Mitt Romney (Human Events)
Bob Jones, Fundamentalist Christian College Chancellor Endorses Mitt Romney (FOXNews)
Craig Sandler, Former NRA Executive Endorses Mitt Romney (Press Release)
Dave Keene, President of The American Conservative Union Endorses Mitt Romney (NewsMax)
Dennis Hastert, Former Speaker of the House Endorses Mitt Romney (The Boston Globe)
Dr. John Willke, Founder of Pro-Life Movement Endorses Mitt Romney (NewsMax)
Judge Robert Bork Endorses Mitt Romney (NewsMax)
National Review Endorses Mitt Romney (National Review Online)
Paul Weyrich founder of the Heritage Foundation Endorses Mitt Romney (NewsMax)
Ross Perot Endorses Mitt Romney (The Dallas Morning News)
Tom Tancredo Endorses Mitt Romney (FOXNews)
Abstinence:
Romney Announces Abstinence Education Program (Boston News)
Immigration:
Romney on Illegal Immigration (Video) (2min)
Romney vs Huckabee on Illegal Immigration (Video) (5min)
Romney Allows Massachusetts State Troopers to Detain Illegals (FOXNews)
Romney Blasts Immigration Deal (NewsMax)
Romney Vetoes In-State Tuition for Illegals (The Boston Globe)
Marriage:
Romney: "Marriage is Between a Man and a Woman" (Video) (1min)
2003 - Massachusetts Governor Vows to Pursue Marriage Amendment (USAToday)
2004 - Romney Urges Constitutional Ban on Same Sex Marriage (USAToday)
Minimum Wage:
Romney Vetoes Minimum Wage Bill (The Republican)
Right to Life:
"After 35 years of Roe v. Wade, we are again reminded why this decision should be overturned. We recognize the worth and dignity of every person, a fact that is ingrained in our hearts and etched in our national purpose. Unelected judges should not be the final arbiters on these important decisions which define who we are as a people. Respect for human life is, at once, both the foundation and the way forward to the future of a just and noble society, one in which every human individual is welcomed in life and protected in law." - Mitt Romney
Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes embryonic Stem-Cell Bill (FOXNews)
- Mass. Lawmakers Override Romney Veto on Stem Cell Research (FOXNews)
Mitt Romney Warns of 'Orwellian' Stem Cell Research (NewsMax)
"It is wrong to allow science to take an assembly-line approach to the production of human embryos, the creation of which will be rooted in experimentation and destruction" - Mitt Romney
Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes Emergency Contraception Bill (FOXNews)
Mitt Romney: Why I Vetoed Contraception Bill (Boston Globe)
Second Amendment:
"I believe the right to keep and bear arms is a cornerstone of our personal freedoms. Should I be fortunate enough to become President, I will stand up and fight against any attempt to weaken or infringe upon our Second Amendment rights. And I will do this without any apology and without any hesitation." - Mitt Romney
Governor Romney Signs Pro-Gun Legislation Clarifing Muzzleloader Law (NRA)
Governor Romney Signs Pro-Gun Legislation Allowing Exemptions for Target Pistol Manufacturers (NRA)
Governor Romney Signed Pro-Gun Legislation Providing Free Replacement Licenses (Gun Owners Action League)
Governor Romney Issued a Proclamation Declaring May 7, 2005 as "Right to Bear Arms Day" (Gun Owners Action League)
Governor Romney Suspended "Administrative Fees" to the Natural Heritage and Endangered Species Fund (Gun Owners Action League)
* Irking N.R.A., Bush Supports The Ban on Assault Weapons (The New York Times)
Fiscal Record:
Romney Vetoed More Than 800 Budget Line-Items (707 were overturned by the liberal Massachusetts Legislature)
- Romney convinced the unfriendly State Legislature to grant him unilateral power to make budget cuts and unveiled $343 million in cuts to cities, healthcare, and state agencies in 2003
- Romney successfully consolidated the social service and public health bureaucracy and restructured the Metropolitan District Commission in 2003
- Romney eliminated half of the executive branch's press positions, saving $1.2 million in 2003
- Romney successfully forced Medicaid recipients to make co-payments for some services in 2003
- Romney successfully pushed for legislative action forcing new state workers to contribute 25% of their health insurance costs, up from 15%
in 2003
- Romney proposing to revolutionize the Massachusetts state
pension system by moving it from a defined benefit system to a defined contribution system in 2003
- Romney pushed to revamp the Pacheco
Law, a union-backed measure that makes it nearly impossible to privatize or outsource state services in 2003
- Romney called for the privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school in 2003
- Romney proposed measures to eliminate civil service protection for all municipal workers except police and firefighters and exempt low-cost public construction jobs from the state's wage law in 2003
- Romney proposed easing pricing regulations on Massachusetts retailers in 2003
- Romney Vetoed A Provision That Would Have Renewed A Prescription Drug Tax in 2003
- Romney proposed easing decades-old state regulations on wetlands in 2004
- Romney Vetoed Retroactive Pay Increases For State Employees in 2004
- Romney proposed cutting the state's income-tax rate from 5.3% to 5.0% in 2004, 2005 and 2006
- Romney succeeded in passing a bill preventing the capital gains tax from being applied retroactively in 2005
- Romney signed legislation that provided property tax relief to seniors in 2005
- Romney signed legislation establishing a two-day tax-free shopping holiday in 2005
- Romney fought for legislation that would bring Massachusetts' welfare system up to date with federal standards by increasing the number of hours each week recipients must work and establishing a five-year limit
for receiving benefits in 2005
- Romney aggressively pushed to deregulate Massachusetts' "Soviet-style" auto insurance industry in 2005
- Romney Vetoed a bill limiting the ability of out-of-state wineries to ship directly to Massachusetts consumers, calling the legislation
"anti-consumer" in 2005
- Romney used his emergency fiscal powers to make $425 million worth of cuts in 2006
- Romney Vetoed the employer mandate that requires businesses with 11 or more full-time employees to provide health insurance in 2006
- Romney Vetoed an increase in the minimum wage from $6.75 to $8.00 in 2006
- Romney Signed a bill streamlining the state's cumbersome permitting process for new businesses in 2006
- Romney Line-Item Vetoed $100,000 For A Gazebo On Sunset Lake In Braintree in 2006
- Romney Vetoed $150,000 For The University Of Massachusetts To Study The Winter Moth in 2006
- Romney Vetoed $4 Million To Research The Efficiency Of The Internal Combustion Engine in 2006
- Romney has ruled out the option of raising Social Security taxes, embraced the idea of reducing the growth rate of future benefits, and supports personal accounts in 2007
Romney Is First To Sign No Tax Pledge (The New York Sun)
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
If Romney is the nominee,
January 24, 2008 - 02:19 ET by BritcomSource: Free Republic
A Portrait of Mitt Romney
January 24, 2008 - 07:13 ET by BritcomMore >>
Source: NY Times
So the other Candidates don't like him? That's it?
January 24, 2008 - 10:26 ET by PopularTechSo your argument is that the other candidates do not like him? Wow I had no idea he was running for the nomination by making friends with his competition. Some great quotes here:
Mr. Schnur used a schoolyard analogy to compare Mr. Romney, the
ever-proper Harvard Law School and Business School graduate, to Mr.
McCain, the gregarious rebel who racked up demerits and friends at the
Naval Academy.
“John McCain and his friends used to beat up Mitt Romney at recess,” Mr. Schnur said.
Yeah so John McCain was a loser bully who graduated 894th out of 899 in his class, tell us something we do not know.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Matthew liked the story too, now its on the main thread. :?)
January 24, 2008 - 19:25 ET by Britcom-
Hillary vs Romney on the Issues
January 24, 2008 - 10:17 ET by PopularTechOn abortion.
Hillary: I am pro-choice and in fact my opponent was also at one time.
Romney: Yes I was and I am now Pro-Life just like Ronald Regan. I also have a history voting on the side of life:
Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes embryonic Stem-Cell Bill (FOXNews)
Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes Emergency Contraception Bill (FOXNews)
On taxes.
Hillary: I opposed the Bush tax cuts for the rich, and in fact my opponent was also against them at one time.
Romney: I support the Bush Tax Cuts and want to make them permanent. I also signed a no new Tax Pledge, something Hillary has not.
Romney: Extend the Bush Tax Cuts (Video) (2min)
Romney Is First To Sign No Tax Pledge (The New York Sun)
On healthcare for all.
Hillary: I support and will fight for healthcare for all, just like my opponent did in Massechusetts. In fact he said the biggest differance between his plan and mine is that his became law! I welcome his support for my plan.
Romnet: Yes I did help pass a free market solution to health care that allows individuals to purchase health insurance from a company of their choice. This is not socialized medicine or a single payer system. And while I am proud to get a free market solution passed the ultra liberal Massachusetts legislature, the final bill passed contains many changes that I did not support and attempted to Veto:
I Vetoed Eight Sections of the Health Care Legislation, including:
- I Vetoed providing dental benefits to poor residents on the Medicaid program
- I Vetoed providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid
- I Vetoed expanding MassHealth (Medicaid) coverage to low-income children
- I Vetoed restoring funding for public health programs
- I Vetoed adding a provision charging firms with 11 or more workers
that do not provide "fair and reasonable" health coverage to their
workers
All Eight Vetoes Were Overturned
The legislature also rejected my proposal to permit even higher-deductible, lower benefit health plans. This obviously contributed to additional costs I wanted to avoid.
On gays serving openly in the military.
Hillary: It is time to end 'don't ask, don't tell.' In fact you Mr. Romney were all for ending that plan even before me and my husband. You were ahead of the curve and supported gays being allowed to serve openly way back in 1994.
Romney: I originally did not think the plan would work but have been proven wrong and see no reason to change something that is working.
On a huge stimulus package.
Hillary: I want to spend 100 billion in an effort to bring the economy back from this recession! My opponent wants to spend 100 billion over 5 years just on the automobile industy, so my plan is in fact a lot more fiscally responsible than his!
Romney: Hillary is being dishonest as her plan is only 70 Billion while mine is 250 Billion. Simply comparing the plans tells you who is truely fiscally responsible and truely concerned with helping hard working Americans.
My Economic Stimulus Plan:
- Permanently Reduce The Lowest Income Tax Bracket to 7.5%
- Permanently Eliminate Payroll Taxes On Employees Over The Age of 65
- Make Middle-Class Savings Tax Free
- Institute Immediate 100% Expensing Of New Equipment Purchased By A Business
- Reduce The Corporate Tax Rate To 20% Over Two Years
- Make The Bush Tax Cuts Permanent
- Roll Back Tax Rates For All Americans
- Kill The Death Tax
- Make The Research And Development Tax Credit Permanent
- Oppose Any Increase In Social Security Taxes
- Prevent The Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) From Hurting More American Families
Compared to Hillary's Plan:
- Establish a $30 Billion Emergency Housing Crisis Fund to assist states and cities mitigate the effects of mounting foreclosures
- Take bold action to stem tide of foreclosure, including a 90-day moratorium on subprime foreclosures and an automatic rate freeze on subprime mortgages of at least five years
- Provide $25 billion in emergency energy assistance for families facing skyrocketing heating bills
- Accelerating $5 billion in energy efficiency and alternative energy investments to jumpstart green collar job growth
- Invest $10 billion in extending and broadening unemployment insurance for those who are struggling to find work
The people can decide which sounds like a better plan. I look forward to embarrassing Hillary on all issues relating to the economy.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Romney Not the Pro-life/family/marriage Convert He Claims to Be
January 24, 2008 - 03:07 ET by BritcomMore >>
Source: LifeSite
Only Ann Coulter can reel a
January 24, 2008 - 01:26 ET by Gary P JacksonOnly Ann Coulter can reel a reader in the opening sentence this well:
"John McCain is Bob Dole minus the charm, conservatism and youth."
This one is worth a read fellers!
http://www.humaneven...
Hey! She stole that line from me. :)
January 24, 2008 - 01:58 ET by Britcom-
Debate tomorrow night
January 24, 2008 - 01:52 ET by bigtimerAnybody left on here going to watch the republican debate tomorrow night...
...for me it ought to be verrry interesting going into the Florida primary Saturday...
I'll be a watchin.
January 24, 2008 - 01:55 ET by Britcom-
Thanks for the reply
January 24, 2008 - 02:21 ET by bigtimerThanks for the reply Brit...
I'll be watching for your comments if I get here tomorrow night NBs...
...they all ought to be interesting that's for sure.
Me too, bt...since I may be
January 24, 2008 - 02:55 ET by JerMe too, bt...since I may be voting GOP for first time ever [ar least for Pres...started with McGovern and solid Dem ever since. Only regret was Carter instead of RR].
Leaning toward Romney, but Obama still has outside shot with me. (Hate to see the Repubs lock up SCOTUS for next 20 years, although I realize that is major issue for you and other cons.) I have unconditionally eliminated HRC and Edwards.
Jer
→ Be fair Jer
January 24, 2008 - 03:06 ET by Cool ArrowBoth parties are equally interested in controlling SCOTUS appointments.
But if McAnus gets the nod from the Republican side, I'll consider voting for Obama just to put the Al and Jesse Travelling Victim Show behind us.
Cool...My middle name is
January 24, 2008 - 03:20 ET by JerCool...My middle name is "Fair". Sure both parties desperately want appointment power. The difference is that conservatives already hold a slight balance of power [4 solid conservatives plus Kennedy].
It's possible the Dems could win and still not be able to alter the balance inasmuch as the liberal Stevens is undoubtably the next to go. On the other hand, a Repub prez would replace him with a young Scalia type, and you've got a lock far into the future.
Jer
→ About time Jer
January 24, 2008 - 03:25 ET by Cool ArrowIt's hard to fathom how the Libs got so many puppets out of Republican appointments.
Good point, Cool...Liberals
January 24, 2008 - 03:55 ET by JerGood point, Cool...Liberals have been lucky in that there have been several surprising right to left conversions. Otherwise, the Court would have been a veritable conservative judicial juggernaut for the past 40 years--since the GOP has made something like 14 out the last 16 appointments.
I recall Harry Blackmun being touted as a hard-core conservative justice, and he became one of the court's most reliable liberals. Stevens and Souter were supposed to be at least moderately conservative. They are both liberals.
There are opposite cases...JFK's Byron White became a solid conservative. But, admittedly the liberals have been more fortunate with respect to ideological shifts. Eisenhower, for example, appointed the nucleus of the Warren court--one of the most liberal in U.S. history.
Jer
What's the point of electing a RINO?
January 24, 2008 - 10:24 ET by Free Stinkersince the GOP has made something like 14 out the last 16 appointments
Which is exactly why we can't let McAmnesty or Hucklebee get elected.
What's the point of electing a RINO when we won't get the judges we need?
Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!
Duncan Hunter On Romney's China Ties
January 24, 2008 - 02:40 ET by BritcomHunter: "...I think Romney's a 'No-Go' for that reason alone."
Click here to see the VIDEO >>
Source: FOX News
http://www.youtube.c...
You definitely got a hard
January 24, 2008 - 04:48 ET by Gary P JacksonYou definitely got a hard on for Romney. Tell me, is the arms manufacturer on some sort of watch list? It's pretty funny no one has brought this up before, no?
Since Romney comes off squeaky clean, you'd think the drive-bys would have picked up on this by now.
HUNTER AGAIN CALLS ON ROMNEY TO OPPOSE BAIN DEAL W/ CHINA CO.
January 24, 2008 - 05:30 ET by BritcomSource: Duncan Hunter Grass-Revolt
Romney and Huawei
January 24, 2008 - 05:39 ET by BritcomMore >>
Source: The Washington Times
(emphasis added)
US Rep: Huawei/3COM deal would 'gravely compromise' US security
January 24, 2008 - 06:02 ET by BritcomSource: Washington Post / PC World
(emphasis added)
You know, this is starting
January 24, 2008 - 08:18 ET by Gary P JacksonYou know, this is starting to sound like the childish bull$hit the dims pull on Dick Cheney over the fact he used to run Halliburton.
Just because the guy founded the company, doesn't mean he is obligated to urge them to do anything. Since he is the FORMER CEO of the company, former being the key word here, what makes you think they would listen to him anyway?
Funny thing, while think you have something that is a problem for Bain Capitol, you have absolutely nothing that suggests Romney has done anything wrong. For that matter, you don't have anything that suggests Bain Capitol has done anything wrong.
Pretty sad attempt to smear a good guy.That may fly in England, but here, that dog don't hunt.
Tell me about it but it is all they got
January 24, 2008 - 10:20 ET by PopularTechThis is like blaming his Dad for AMC going out of business years after he left but while he was there is was profitable. I have never before heard a former CEO being blamed for a company's current decisions. I believe even the most dishonest person can understand this simple logic.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Romney still profits from, & maintains offshore linkage to Bain
January 24, 2008 - 19:15 ET by BritcomSource: Los Angeles Times
I am not from England
January 24, 2008 - 19:21 ET by BritcomI am a native born American of Scottish decent, I just like British Television. :?)
Still in a quandary about Hunter support of Huckabee?
January 24, 2008 - 10:31 ET by vrwc13...then read this (h/t Drudge: NYT: ROMNEY AS AN OUTCAST WITH RIVALS...)
January 24, 2008
Romney Leads in Ill Will Among G.O.P. Candidates
By MICHAEL LUO
TAMPA, Fla. — At the end of the Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire this month, when the Democrats joined the candidates on stage, Mitt Romney found himself momentarily alone as his counterparts mingled, looking around a bit stiffly for a companion.
more... http://www.nytimes.c...
“Never get into a wrestling match with a pig,” Senator John McCain said in New Hampshire this month after reporters asked him about Mr. Romney. “You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.”
Mr. Romney probably knows Mr. Huckabee the best, aides said, as the two were governors at the same time and ran into each other often through the Republican Governors Association and the National Governors Association.
"Paradoxically, sometimes the enmity between them appears to be the sharpest.
Aides to Mr. Huckabee say he did not get to know Mr. Romney very well as a governor, finding him distant at meetings. The aides said they were also irritated that Mr. Romney did not call after Mr. Huckabee’s victory in Iowa."
HUNTER on HUCKABEE:
” I got to know Governor Hukcabee well on the campaign trail, “said Hunter in a press statement.” Of the remaining candidates I feel that he is strongly committed to strengthening national defense, constructing the border fence and meeting the challenge of China’s emergence as a military superpower.”
Hunter said one other quality compelled him to endorse the Iowa caucus winner.
“Mike Huckabee is a man of outstanding character and integrity. I saw that character over the last year of campaigning and was greatly impressed, ” Hunter continues.”
v
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.