For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Fed cuts funds rate 3/4, markets ready to plunge again.
On Saturday, NewsBusters addressed the break of the five-year bull market trendline. While America observed Martin Luther King, Jr., yesterday, stocks across the globe plummeted.
Despite the Fed's action, markets are opening broadly lower this morning.
With all this in mind, is the current stock behavior a repeat of 1987, vis a vis a market event predicting a recession that isn't going to happen? Or, are the markets right this time, and this economy is in big trouble?



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
"Roe" likes Ron...
January 22, 2008 - 09:49 ET by sarcasmoRally for life today in less than an hour in the belly of the beast.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
C-Span, this morning...
January 22, 2008 - 11:07 ET by SyriusOf course, C-Span had a nice back & forth discussion between the
two sides of the debate with a few call-ins. The most level-headed was
the woman from NOW, the pro-choice side. As the RU-486 pill becomes the
method of choice for most women, abortion has become more of an issue
of privacy for women than a surgical procedure not to be carried out by
doctors. Now, any doctor can prescribe the pill without the pro-lifers
being able to find out. The debate maybe hot, but, the RU-486 pill is
having a cooling effect on the actual abortions being reported. As a
man, I will never have to decide on nor experience an unwanted pregnancy...it should
always be the woman's choice, period.
Syrius
only a woman??
January 22, 2008 - 11:32 ET by SouthJersey1953Why do you feel it is only the woman's right to "terminate" the life of her infant?
It's a BABY, not a choice.
It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong
It's a fetus...
January 22, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Syrius...period. It's the woman's choice to terminate, not yours.
Syrius
Syrius....
January 22, 2008 - 13:32 ET by Clear thinkerYou are one sick individual.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Yeah CT, He is sick. I
January 22, 2008 - 13:33 ET by LeonYeah CT,
He is sick.
I would have said blastocyte, not fetus.
Ok Leon...
January 22, 2008 - 13:39 ET by Clear thinkerDon't want to have you feeling left out now do we.... you are #2 sick individual!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
the blastocyte is always
January 22, 2008 - 13:55 ET by TruthMongerthe blastocyte is always innocent...
i thought libs were against the death penalty - even for the guilty - much less the innocent...
anyway what kind of people could approve of killing 3000 cute little baby blastocytes every day in the US...
it's just like the Nazi's exterminating Jews - although even the Nazi's cared about the Jews a little bit...
Fred dead yet?
January 22, 2008 - 13:40 ET by SyriusJust a man supporting a woman's right to choose. You should try it
sometime. You never know, you may need their support for your rights
one day.
Syrius
Sy... Regarding this
January 22, 2008 - 13:50 ET by bigtimerSy...
Regarding this issue and you bringing up the CSPAN show on this that was on this morning, pray tell why was Kim Gandy head of NOW unable to answer the point about her and her ilk stopping the person deciding whether to have an abortion access to the picture of her baby they take with the ultra sound?
Eh?
She couldn't answer either because we all know why.
Doesn't ultrasound hurt the developing fetus?
January 22, 2008 - 13:54 ET by SyriusCausing problems down the road?
It's a woman's choice, not yours.
Syrius
sy... Take two aspirin
January 22, 2008 - 14:00 ET by bigtimersy...
Take two aspirin and take a long rest.
well then I say we up the
January 22, 2008 - 14:03 ET by TruthMongerwell then I say we up the legal age of blastocyte abortion to 5 years old - and after they're born allow the dads and siblings over 10 to have the choice too - some of these toddlers are complete brats - it's much better if we kill em nice and young...
Gosh...
January 22, 2008 - 14:16 ET by SyriusTruthMonster,
Why do you hate kids? Are you saying ALL Dads
& Siblings are homocidal maniacs? Maybe, right wingers who support
the death penalty not me...
It's a woman's choice, not yours.
Syrius
It's a woman's choice, not yours.
January 22, 2008 - 14:22 ET by vrwc13one out of every two abortions is a "woman"...what about her choice?
v
http://www.pathlight...
Wow.... You just sunk his
January 22, 2008 - 16:59 ET by BinxlyWow.... You just sunk his battleship :-P
i don't hate kids
January 22, 2008 - 17:28 ET by TruthMongeri don't hate kids - they're just a choice:) the bratty ones probably woulda had crappy adult lives anyway - dontcha think...?
a fetus at 8 to 15 weeks begins to...
January 22, 2008 - 17:20 ET by Syrius...develop the genitals. Before 8 weeks it is an embryo with
no sex organs. Are you referring to a female fetus as a "woman" with
fully developed sexual organs ready to produce offspring? You need to
have a clearer definition.
Syrius
"It's a woman's choice, and a man's responsibility."
this is helpful
January 22, 2008 - 17:31 ET by TruthMongerso some guys "feel like women"
do they get choices then?
some guys get sex changes...
do they get choices, then?
what about hermaphrodites?
cross dressers?
The choice was made before the pregnacy
January 22, 2008 - 14:07 ET by general companyIt's a woman's choice, not yours.
Then is should be the woman responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place.
She had a choice, and had already chosen.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest". Mark Twain
Are you saying...
January 22, 2008 - 14:23 ET by SyriusGC,
The Virgin Mary had a choice? God decided for her. Probably like most rightwingers have over their wives.
Syrius
syrius just doesn't care
January 22, 2008 - 17:32 ET by TruthMongersyrius just doesn't care about blastocytes - it's his/her choice
Hey truth, it occurred to me
January 22, 2008 - 19:09 ET by RESTLESS 1Hey truth, it occurred to me on the way home that I missed the boat when my kids were born. Perhaps I should have named one of them "Blastocyte". Hell, I could have even gone with "Blastocyte" and "Blastocyte 2.0" Has a nice ring to it huh?
absolutely - we have a 2.5
January 23, 2008 - 15:00 ET by TruthMongerabsolutely - we have a 2.5 year-old blastocyte right now...
fo course it's illegal to kill him now - but 3 years ago no problem:)
unfortunately you never know if you're going to get a brat or not until it's too late:(
Just give the pro-death
January 23, 2008 - 17:43 ET by RESTLESS 1Just give the pro-death crowd some time. Soon we'll be able to make all of our problems go away. It is our "choice" after all. ;>)
Are you saying...?
January 22, 2008 - 18:21 ET by general companyNo, but I did think there was a bit more to you then that. Your not worth the time folks here (including me) have given you. You fain morality, and shun responsibility.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest". Mark Twain
Then Mary said, “Behold
January 22, 2008 - 18:23 ET by tracheostomyThen Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. - Luke 1:38
Besides, you're citing a woman from an account you don't believe in anyway.
But I admire the attempt.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Syrius
January 22, 2008 - 14:49 ET by RESTLESS 1Why doesn't the father have any rights according to you? It may be the woman's body, but it is the man's child as well.
It's the woman's choice...not yours.
January 22, 2008 - 15:05 ET by SyriusRestless,
Not until the fetus is born is it considered a
child under the rule of law. In some special circumstances, such as in
the case of Lacy Peterson's murder, it could be determined the child
could live outside of the mother and be deemed a person with the
protection of the laws of the US. Scott got what he deserved for
killing two people.
How do you really know it's yours?
Not
every child is born into a loving, nurturing family. A woman has the
right to decide what is best for her and the fetus she may carry to
full term.
Syrius
choose life - democratically...
January 22, 2008 - 15:08 ET by TruthMongerwe just need to reinstate original murder law to then re-establish the reality of a blastoctye's right to life...
we're getting there...
Syrius
January 22, 2008 - 15:13 ET by RESTLESS 1Your're kidding right? You didn't even come close to answering my question. Platitudes don't cut it here. What about the father's right???
Not until the fetus is born is it considered a...
January 22, 2008 - 15:24 ET by Syrius...child. Parental rights should apply at the time of birth. I did
answer it. If it is yours...Are you sure it is? Sounds like you might
want to go get your kid checked to see...
Syrius
"It's a woman's choice, and a man's responsibility."
You have GOT to be kidding!
January 22, 2008 - 15:38 ET by Gary P JacksonYou have GOT to be kidding! You mean to tell me it is OK to kill the "fetus" without telling the husband, AKA the FATHER of the CHILD? If so, then why is the father of this child responsible AFTER he or she is born?
I know you libs always want it both ways, but this is ridiculous.
BTW, what about partial birth abortions? In this case you are killing a kid that would live outside the womb. What say you about this barbaric act? If that's OK, why isn't it OK to kill a kid later on?
Past that, what is your position on the death penalty? We know you don't care if an innocent life is snuffed out, but what say you about the life of a murder, or a child rapist?
people like syrius have this
January 22, 2008 - 17:33 ET by TruthMongerpeople like syrius have this very carefully crafted - it's probably best if you don't understand it:)...
Time out. Syrius is
January 22, 2008 - 15:48 ET by tracheostomyTime out. Syrius is ignoring C-sections and preemies. Referee is on the field and reviewing the play.
It's confirmed.
Ten-yard penalty, Liberal Demoncats. First down, Lifers.
:cheers:
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Syrius
January 22, 2008 - 16:12 ET by RESTLESS 1"If it is yours...Are you sure it is? Sounds like you might
want to go get your kid checked to see..."
Ahh!! Relegated to insults I see. I'll tell you what, I'll check... Yep both the 2 year old and the four year old. Both mine. How do I know?? Both are already more intelligent than yourself. Actually, you are mine too, but I disowned you years ago for stupidity. That trait I will have to blame on the mother. Sorry.
Nothing against your kids...
January 22, 2008 - 17:41 ET by SyriusRestless,
My points up 'til now have supported the woman's
right to choose, her privacy and the rule of law. We could argue
back & forth about aborted fetuses, the procedures involved,
descriptive barbaric pictures & videos to incite a shock to the
system. Once, all said and done, we still return to the right of the
woman and her privacy. There is no one taking away your right to
privacy, so, it's quite easy for you to sit in judgement of her right
to privacy. This is a two way street, if you could take away her
rights, at somepoint, she could take away yours. Too many times in
these arguments, rightwingers are deciding what is right and wrong,
good and evil. Take morality out of the equation and follow the rule of
law. At the end of the day, you're just trying to tell a woman what she
can & can't do to her body and that's it. Now, that's just stupid.
Syrius
"It's a woman's choice, and a man's responsibility."
Syrius is not only being
January 22, 2008 - 17:58 ET by tracheostomySyrius is not only being evasive, but in the above post, he is further bouncing back & forth between:
"Privacy rights" <--- versus ---> A woman's right over her own "body."
Can't be both in the same time at the same place. See Dscott's post January 22, 2008 - 14:34 ET. Note also Syrius never replied to it either.
That's it. Keep concentrating on the soft targets only, and ignore the rest.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Furthermore, where Syrius
January 22, 2008 - 18:05 ET by tracheostomyFurthermore, where Syrius is contending against the existence of an unchangeable moral law, he goes on to assert that conversely, civil law is somehow immutable by virtue of its existence as well.
Care to clarify that one Syrius?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
First of all, if a woman
January 22, 2008 - 18:05 ET by RESTLESS 1First of all, if a woman wants to "protect" her body from pregnancy, she should take precautions to safeguard it in the first place. Her "choice" is made at the time of copulation.
Secondly, I do take morality out of it. The Constitution does not grant the right to abortion, and abortion is not a right to privacy issue. I have said many times that the SCOTUS did not err in their ruling on ROE v WADE. They erred in hearing the case instead of keeping it a state's rights issue. They should have declined to hear the case and let the state's ruling stand.
Yes...
January 22, 2008 - 11:39 ET by MightyMouthKilling a baby should always be the mothers choice. My mom tried to get us serveral times with a frying pan, broom handle, fly swatter...whatever was handy... what she should have done was have a doctor scrape us out before we had a chance to run.. she missed and we are all grown up now. Yep 5, men with families who are nothing more than a messy part of our mothers body. She should have thought ahead...pitty...
You get a great big raspberry "Syrius"!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
With the RU486 pill...
January 22, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Syrius...the doctor prescribes the meds, no need to scrape. Clean & simple. It's a mother's choice, not yours...
Being
a man, you'll never experience an unwanted pregnancy. You have no right
to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body. It's her
privacy.
Syrius
Being a man, you'll never
January 22, 2008 - 14:34 ET by dscottBeing a man, you'll never experience an unwanted pregnancy
Not true, tell that to all the guys who have to pay 25% of their income in child support for 18 years for a kid they didn't even know they had after having a trist. It takes two to make the decision to have unprotected sex or for the more religious among us, sex outside of marriage.
You have no right to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body.
Not True either, even as a man I do not have a right to do with my body as I please.
1. I can not commit suicide, i.e. kill my body, that's against the law;
2. I can not chop off my fingers or other extremities, i.e. harm my body, that's against the law and you will end up in the loony bin if you did it;
3. I can not sell my organs, i.e. sell parts of my body, that's against the law.
4. I can not take a controlled substance (drugs) without a doctor's express orders, i.e. pollute my body, that's against the law.
As a liberal you should realize that if you participate in this society and receive it's benefits, you also accept the claims that society has upon you, even your body!
However, you have nicely sidestepped the bigger issue, a fetus, blastocyte or whatever you want to call it, is human, when it's born won't be a cat or a dog, it can't be anything else. Even athiest's recognize the imperitive of Life and the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the devaluation of everyone's life (the survivors of your so called choice).
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
This base is covered.
January 22, 2008 - 18:08 ET by tracheostomyThis base is covered. Times noted.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Wowww...BRAVO, my man, BRAVO!!!
January 23, 2008 - 10:13 ET by SyriusDscott,
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."
BRAVO! I am clapping my hands, slapping your back & rejoicing in the fact you just realized the need for civility in an argument. As we rename/label someone we do erase their humanity. Such as the ongoing theme of calling someone a "liberal", a "rightwinger", or any other term we wish to use in describing a group or person we disagree with on issues. Thank you!
Syrius
However, being a man, who
January 22, 2008 - 16:49 ET by Hero SquadHowever, being a man, who happens to be on the same page with my wife - being a woman - we have experienced the feeling of losing a desperately wanted pregnancy. At eight weeks, we experienced the joy of seeing our daughter's heartbeat on the ultrasound. A few weeks later, my wife miscarried.
Losing that baby was one of the toughest, most devastating periods of our life. But it made us both even more frustrated with the thought that there are people out there who would willfully and selfishly terminate a life - a gift - because it's not convenient for them.
No, I haven't walked in their shoes; but they haven't walked in the shoes of the thousands of couples who are unable to carry a child to term, who would do anything to have a child to love. And don't forget the child that will never have a chance to wear shoes at all.
Your attitude toward abortion is clearly that of someone who has not experienced the joy of childbirth or the devastating loss of a child. I dare you to watch an ultrasound, to witness the beating of a tiny heart, to experience the joy of a new life starting to grow, and then wrap things up with a blase "OK, let's terminate that baby."
Just something for you to think about.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Life is brutal.
January 22, 2008 - 18:02 ET by SyriusHero Squad,
I've found there is a certain amount of
insensitivity on this site when you share anecdotes, I'd suggest you
should keep it to yourself and not share it with the group. I will say
I am sorry for you and your wife to have experienced one of life's most
disappointing moments. Some of my friends have gone through the same
and it was devastating for them to say the least. The baby wasn't ready
to be born. My friends went through 4 invitro treatments with the
assortment of miscarriages, and other ups & downs. They had a
decision to make on three hearbeats- two strong, one weak. The
probability was very high of a miscarriage of all three if left alone.
They 'reduced' the three down to two. They have two beautiful children.
Again, you'll never experience directly what the woman is going through. You can sympathize but that's it.
Syrius
Hello Pot? This is Kettle.
January 23, 2008 - 10:03 ET by Hero Squad"I've found there is a certain amount of
insensitivity on this site when you share anecdotes..."
Hello Pot? This is Kettle. You're black.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Ask...
January 23, 2008 - 19:07 ET by Syrius...Dan the Man2. He'll enlighten you.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius, at what split second in time...
January 23, 2008 - 10:50 ET by Karma...do YOU think a developing human beings' brain can sense pain and disruption? Can you prove it?
Again, you'll never experience directly what the woman is going through. You can sympathize but that's it.
Syrius
Thank God your mother had more sense than to force you to experience the act yourself; or don't you believe the growth of cells within her was actually you until you knew you were you. What would you have been going through? Who would have cared? Do you have sympathy only for the one who has a choice in the matter? I reserve sympathy for the victim, not the perpetrator.
Of course, Communist-Span
January 22, 2008 - 12:05 ET by KarmaOf course, Communist-Span had a nice back & forth discussion between the
two sides of the debate with a few call-ins. The most bevel-headed was
the woman from NOW, the pro-death side. As the RU-486 pill becomes the
weapon of choice for most women, murder has become more of an issue
of privacy for women than a surgical strike not to be carried out by
doctors. Now, any doctor can prescribe the poison without the pro-lifers
being able to find out. The debate maybe hot, but, the RU-486 pill is
having a cooling effect on the actual murders being reported. As a
girly-man, I will never have to decide on nor experience killing my offspring...it should
always be the woman's choice, period.
Not-very-Syrius
Did you actually listen...? Oh, I get it you did a rewrite..lol.
January 22, 2008 - 13:50 ET by SyriusKarma,
It is a privacy issue for woman, which can be related to how wide
of a stance you have in a bathroom stall & the type of illicit
activity you wish to engage in with others. So, how many sperm do you
kill in one of those encounters? Don't answer I'm impinging upon your
right to privacy. Every sperm is scared!
Syrius
Nice job! You managed to
January 22, 2008 - 14:11 ET by Gary P JacksonNice job! You managed to make no point at all, AND throw in an insult.
Is this a privacy issue, or a moral one? You liberals want married women, and young underage girls to be able to kill their babies in complete privacy. Of course, your kind are the same idiots who run the school system and lose you f-ing minds if a kid has an aspirin in their backpack!
Abortions scar a woman for life, both figuratively and literally. The pushers of "choice" do not want the woman to know about the downside of her "choice". They do not want women to be educated on the procedures, or the other options. Most women regret their "choice" for the rest of their life.
But back to you're idiotic privacy issue. Do you really think an underage kid, say 13 or 14 should be able to go to a doctor and have such a traumatic, life altering procedure done by herself? Heck, a kid can't even go by themselves to the doctor for a cold!
And if a woman is married, and gets pregnant don't you think the husband has some rights? You can bet your butt if she has the kid, married or not, the daddy is gonna be responsible, so why are you libs afraid of letting the man know up front?
You pro death liberals make me sick!
You pro death liberals make me sick!
January 22, 2008 - 14:19 ET by vrwc13God is not too pleased with them either...
v
You can take it...
January 22, 2008 - 18:26 ET by SyriusGary,
Is this a privacy issue, or a moral one?(It's a total Privacy issue) You liberals want married
women, and young underage girls to be able to kill their babies in
complete privacy.(To be able to decide for themselves what they want for themselves, it's not for me to decide for them.) Of course, your kind are the same idiots who run the
school system(I don't) and lose you f-ing minds if a kid has an aspirin in their
backpack!(No problem, they can have aspirin. I hope if they are deciding to have sex, they should have condoms in their backpacks, too.)
Abortions scar a woman for life, both figuratively and literally.(Psychologically,
possible...Physically, with the RU-486 pill not so bad. Of course, how
would you and I know? We're not empathic beings.)
The pushers of "choice" do not want the woman to know about the
downside of her "choice". They do not want women to be educated on the
procedures, or the other options. Most women regret their "choice" for
the rest of their life.(Proof?Please no anecdotes...)
But back to you're idiotic privacy issue. Do you really think an
underage kid, say 13 or 14 should be able to go to a doctor and have
such a traumatic, life altering procedure done by herself?(YES, at least they should be able to go with a person who respects them for the decision they will make for themselves.) Heck, a kid
can't even go by themselves to the doctor for a cold!(But, it's ok for them to have unprotected sex since you educated them on "how to"?)
And if a woman is married, and gets pregnant don't you think the
husband has some rights?(No, none, zero...how many times has a husband killed his wife & baby because he couldn't except the fact she was pregnant? You can bet your butt if she has the kid,
married or not, the daddy is gonna be responsible, so why are you libs
afraid of letting the man know up front?(Just supporting her right to privacy.)
You pro death liberals make me sick!(Right back at you!)
Syrius
"It's a woman's choice, and a man's responsibility."
I know the silliest thing
January 22, 2008 - 20:48 ET by Gary P JacksonI know the silliest thing one can do is argue with a fool, but here goes.
An underage girl is just that, underage. In most states you can't get a tattoo or a piercing until you reach the age of consent. You can't enter into a legal agreement. And again, a doctor won't treat you for a cold without a parents permission. And yet, you have no problem with a girl as young as 13 waltzing into a doctor all by herself and making a life altering decision all by herself? That is simply insane.
To put it differently, the kid can't even legally buy cigarettes to smoke after having sex, but it's OK to have an abortion performed by a group, Planned Parenthood, that won't even allow her to be presented with other options, or fully explain the ramifications of the ones they offer? Im mean at the grand old age of 13 she has plenty of life experiences to make such a lofty decision doesn't she. With all of the worldly experience she might have gained, shouldn't she be able to hear ALL of the options, hmmm?
And you just try being a kid in school and get caught with an aspirin in you're backpack. You'd have an easier time if they caught you with a nuclear device, you liberal loon!
I'm not even going there with RU-486, because while that might be an option for an adult, whose lifestyle is such she engages in meaningless sex, most 13 year olds might not even realize they are pregnant until well past the time it is effective. And there is plenty of data out there that says that it may indeed cause problems in later life.
And oh yeah, by ALL means lets hope someone accompanies the 13 year old girl who respects her well informed worldly wise opinions. Because we know at 13 we have learned everything we will ever learn! Wow, are you a moron.
No, it's not OK for a 13 year old to have unprotected sex. It's not OK for a 13 year old to be having sex at all. Granted, I'm not that naive, but I also don't think abortion should be the preferred birth control method for 13 year olds!
So just because an extremely small percentage of men, since the beginning of all time have chosen to kill a woman rather than deal with an unwanted pregnancy, men get no say at all in pregnancy. Do I have that right? Man, could I run laps with that one. How about women who trick men into THINKING they are pregnant, so they will marry them? I bet the percentages are higher of that than the "murdered woman and baby" scenario!
There is no such thing as a right to privacy in the Constitution. That was one of those "found" rights. Here's the thing, a parent has a right to know what their kid is up to. Would you defend a kid's "right to privacy" if say mom was putting their socks away, and found a baggy of dope in the drawer? Or a bottle of booze. If you do, you're an idiot, and if you don't, your "right to privacy" argument just fell through!
As for a married woman, if she gets pregnant, and doesn't tell her husband she had an abortion, that is totally unfair to the man. It would be grounds for divorce, but of course, you'd probably say this say woman was deserving of all sorts of spousal support.
A single woman can do whatever she wants, but until the day comes a single man is not held responsible for an unwanted baby, I don't want to hear it's none of his business!
Well said Gary, and just to
January 22, 2008 - 21:58 ET by dscottWell said Gary, and just to pile on, Taking a child, a minor, without the consent of their parents for an abortion is a violation of parent's rights, you know that one covered under the 9th Amendment. Just because it isn't listed doesn't mean the founding fathers at the time didn't consider it a right. In fact, just like gun ownership, parental rights were sacrosanct at the time. If you were to have told the founding fathers that the government or any person other than a child's parents took a child for a medical procedure without their knowledge or consent in the absence of a life threatening emergency you would have been not simply laughed at, you probably would have been branded a kidnapper and hung. The Constitution was written under a certain set of assumptions that were taken as an obvious given. Any change in the underlying assumptions were to be addressed by the legislature, the people's representatives, to update the laws given the approval of the people's common values. John Locke spoke of this in his Treatise of Government. Abortion as a right was never considered an assumed right by the founding fathers, no writing of the period ever reflected this idea. Hence any change in "rights" requires the legislature to make that change, not the Courts. What the SCOTUS did in Roe v Wade was inherently wrong, it had no right to legislate a right or behavior where one did not exist before and in fact was denounced by society at large. They strained gnats (privacy) to swallow camels (life of the child). What ever happened to Stare decisis? Apparently it only applies when liberals want to engage in social engineering.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Hmmmm...to answer...
January 23, 2008 - 11:13 ET by Syriusdscott,
I agree with a parent's right to know. Once, a child has become pregnant she can no longer be considered just a child but also a future mother to the child she is about to have. It is imperative that she decide or least be part of the decision to have the child or not have the child. If the parents are firm anti-abortionists & only filter to her what they want her to know, how is that an informed opinion? What if the child decides to have an abortion against her parents' wishes, who would she be able to turn to for support? Planned Parenthood presents both sides at all times. At least the child would have a choice.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Once, a child has become
January 23, 2008 - 14:29 ET by dscottOnce, a child has become pregnant she can no longer be considered just a child but also a future mother to the child she is about to have.
That's the crux of the issue isn't? Does a child cease to be a child upon becoming pregnant or siring a child? The fact that a person is a child, i.e. a minor, a person under the age of 18 as determined by our society, a child by definition can not make informed choices - adult choices, they require their parent's to make those choices. Any attempt by the State is inject their authority to supplant the natural law, i.e. the recognised rights of the individual protected by the Ninth Amendment, not ceeded to the government is a usurptation of liberty. Just because you have the power to force yourself into someone else's business doesn't mean you have the right to do so.
Furthermore, the fact that a person, who is a child, made poor choices in the first place to get engage in sex and then becomes pregnant demonstrates a disregard for the consequences which is a juvenile act not an adult act. Engaging in juvenile behavior and then experiencing the consequences does not make one an adult. This is no different than a child commiting a crime of theft or murder, the child is not treated like an adult because they did an "adult" like behavior. They are dealt with in the juvenile court in a setting that is appropriate to their age. The only exception to this is if the minor is 16 or older, if the court determines that are of sufficient mental capacity to appreciate the consequences. The legal term I believe is mens rea, the child does not have the mental capacity to appreciate the consequences of their actions. That's why children need the protection and guidance of their parents. They (parents) assumed responsibility for the child at conception by the act of consumation.
the parents are firm anti-abortionists & only filter to her what they want her to know, how is that an informed opinion?
Irrelevant. Anyone other than the parents making or influencing such decisions for the child's welfare is usurptation and a violation of the Ninth Amendment. The rights of parenthood is natural law and predates government. No one has the right to judge the parental fitness of a person based on some political agenda, and abortion is a political agenda - feminism. Not even the courts have a right to interfere in parental rights unless the parents have previously acted to harm the child, thus nullifying their rights. In order to nullify a right, there must be due process, 14th Amendment, i.e. a court hearing must occur based on probable cause.
You can not willynilly snatch a child from their parents and then do what you think is best. Anyone who thinks they can is playing with fire. The Rule of Law is predicated on the consistent application of the Law to everyone without prejudice as supported by the people. If the people cease supporting the Law as administered by the Courts, you have a break down in the Rule of Law and then anarchy and revolution. I can tell you one thing, if anyone ever did that to my child, they would be dead or living in fear of the day I deal out justice. No army on earth or fortified walls could protect the person from me who did such a thing to my child. Sooner or later I would get them, even if it took years. Do you understand what I mean about playing with fire?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
I understand...
January 23, 2008 - 14:52 ET by Syriusdscott,
You might want to review the following as a clarification...
http://www.medscape....
&
http://www.aclu.org/...
I hope you never have to face this situation. If you do, I hope you make the right choice.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
It is interesting that the
January 23, 2008 - 16:34 ET by dscottIt is interesting that the ACLU is fighting parental rights using their euphemisms as usual as though they were protecting children or in this case the school system when they meddle in the family where they have no business. As I said before: Any attempt by the State is inject their authority to supplant the natural law, i.e. the recognised rights of the individual protected by the Ninth Amendment, not ceeded to the government is a usurptation of liberty. Just because you have the power to force yourself into someone else's business doesn't mean you have the right to do so.
What the group, Of the People are seeking do is undo the usurptation of the school systems in interfering with parental rights. It's a shame it has come to this, but know-it-all, meddling, do-gooders cause more harm than good. The old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Unfortunately, it's going to take a needless law to undo the unlawful acts of judges and school systems who arrogantly decided that they not the parents know what's best for the child. This demonstrates what the anti-federalists feared most, when the assumptions are not specifically written down, it is easy for some fool judge to say because it's not there the government is free to fill the vacuum. It is the habit of judges and lawyers to strain gnats in order to swallow camels in their quest to push the boundaries of the Law to satisfy some agenda. http://www.constitution.org/afp.htm Which goes to the core of the issue, government is not here to micromanage the lives of people, it's there to facilitate the orderly functioning of society and deal with those who trangress the values of that society. The Law is the reflection of society's values, if it were not, we would be under a tyranny. Any judge or public official that is not accountable to the people over whom he/she exercises power is a tyrant by definition.
You might find this reference site very useful: http://www.constitution.org/liberlib.htm
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
The truth is...
January 23, 2008 - 11:02 ET by SyriusI know the silliest thing one can do is argue with a fool, but here goes.(I agree, but, here it goes...)
An underage girl is just that, underage. In most states you can't get a
tattoo or a piercing until you reach the age of consent. You can't
enter into a legal agreement. And again, a doctor won't treat you for a
cold without a parents permission. And yet, you have no problem with a
girl as young as 13 waltzing into a doctor all by herself and making a
life altering decision all by herself? That is simply insane.(Why didn't she listen to her parents about abstinence?)
To put it differently, the kid can't even legally buy cigarettes to
smoke after having sex, but it's OK to have an abortion performed by a
group(I believe it's a doctor that performs the procedure), Planned Parenthood, that won't even allow her to be presented
with other options, or fully explain the ramifications of the ones they
offer?(Proof?) Im mean at the grand old age of 13 she has plenty of life
experiences to make such a lofty decision doesn't she.(She probably learned most of what she knows from her parents.) With all of the
worldly experience she might have gained, shouldn't she be able to hear
ALL of the options, hmmm?(Sure, I don't have a problem with that as long as you're ok with her final decision in the end.)
And you just try being a kid in school and get caught with an
aspirin in you're backpack. You'd have an easier time if they caught
you with a nuclear device, you liberal loon!(Stop with the name calling, you self-righteous buffoon...sarc.)
I'm not even going there with RU-486 (too tough for you?), because
while that might be an option for an adult, whose lifestyle is such she
engages in meaningless sex(Mmmm...meaningless sex, you should try it sometimes but not alone), most 13 year olds might not even realize
they are pregnant until well past the time it is effective.(MOST 13 year olds are having sex? Maybe, immaculate conception might be in the works?) And there
is plenty of data out there that says that it may indeed cause problems
in later life.(Proof? Please cite an unbiased Medical Study other than a biased right wing, pro-life study.)
And oh yeah, by ALL means lets hope someone accompanies the 13 year
old girl who respects her well informed worldly wise opinions.(It should be obvious to you, she doesn't respect authority.) Because
we know at 13 we have learned everything we will ever learn!(That fact has been proven by ALL of your statements...) Wow, are
you a moron.(Name calling again...)
No, it's not OK for a 13 year old to have unprotected sex. It's not
OK for a 13 year old to be having sex at all. Granted, I'm not that
naive, but I also don't think abortion should be the preferred birth
control method for 13 year olds!(I absolutely agree for the first time in your long winded diatribe!)
So just because an extremely small percentage of men, since the
beginning of all time have chosen to kill a woman rather than deal with
an unwanted pregnancy(So, you do agree with me.), men get no say at all in pregnancy.(Correct.) Do I have
that right?(NO.) Man, could I run laps with that one(I think you're a little winded at the moment.) How about women who
trick men into THINKING they are pregnant, so they will marry them?(I'm sorry that happen to you.) I
bet the percentages are higher of that than the "murdered woman and
baby" scenario!(Relevance?)
There is no such thing as a right to privacy in the Constitution.
That was one of those "found" rights. Here's the thing, a parent has a
right to know what their kid is up to. Would you defend a kid's "right
to privacy" if say mom was putting their socks away, and found a baggy
of dope in the drawer? Or a bottle of booze. If you do, you're an
idiot, and if you don't, your "right to privacy" argument just fell
through!(Name calling diminishes your argument, you self-righteous buffoon. sarcasm, lots of sarcasm)
As for a married woman, if she gets pregnant, and doesn't tell her
husband she had an abortion, that is totally unfair to the man.(Some women do get 'raped' by their husbands. You do know that, correct?) It
would be grounds for divorce, but of course, you'd probably say this
say woman was deserving of all sorts of spousal support.(Your own personal experience? Bitter?)
A single woman can do whatever she wants, but until the day comes a
single man is not held responsible for an unwanted baby, I don't want
to hear it's none of his business!(As I have said before- It's a woman's choice, a man's responsibility. A man is allowed to fight in court against supporting a child if he feels he was trapped in the pregnancy. He has no right in forcing her to have an abortion to avoid the pregnancy.)
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 22, 2008 - 14:23 ET by RESTLESS 1Do you REALLY want to be the one who equates a sperm with an unborn child?. That just goes to the mentality of your side on this. You just don't want to be told you can't do anything you want without consequences. I wish just once, someone on the liberal side would man up and admit the truth.
Btw, most posters here don't condone the expulsion of sperm the way you are suggesting, so that is a moot point as well.
Without it, you got a clone or Jesus.
January 22, 2008 - 18:34 ET by SyriusRestUp,
Without sperm, you got a clone or Jesus. You do believe in Jesus, don't you?
I'll
'MAN UP'!!! You better start believing buddy. I'm admitting the
truth- God came to the Virgin Mary and, well, the rest is history...
Btw, most posters here don't condone the expulsion of sperm the way you are suggesting, so that is a moot point as well.(You are the one makin' the point moot.)
Syrius
"It's a woman's choice, and a man's responsibility."
Huh???
January 22, 2008 - 19:04 ET by RESTLESS 1Now you are talking in circles. Go hit the meds, FAST!!!!
Did you actually listen...?
January 22, 2008 - 15:32 ET by KarmaDid you actually listen...? Oh, I get it you did a rewrite..lol.
January 22, 2008 - 13:50 ET by Syrius
Karma,
It is a privacy issue for woman, which can be related to how wide
of a stance you have in a bathroom stall & the type of illicit
activity you wish to engage in with others. So, how many sperm do you
kill in one of those encounters? Don't answer I'm impinging upon your
right to privacy. Every sperm is scared!
Syrius
Are you telling us sperm is capable of emotion? If so, you may want to wipe that grin off your chin.
http://www.abort73.com/
January 22, 2008 - 13:24 ET by alamojbhttp://www.abort73.com/
→ Big trouble
January 22, 2008 - 09:49 ET by Cool ArrowWar funding and credit card debt.
Sure there is plenty of reason to say "I'm setting pretty", but which kind of trouble are we talking about?
I ♣ My Seal
IMO this is not gloom and
January 22, 2008 - 09:52 ET by shawn228IMO this is not gloom and doom from the msm this is very scary. 400 points down a few minutes into trading. Another interest rate cut from the feds will lower the dollars value, making oil even more expensive.
How does Romney stop the applause?
Romney shows his compassion
→ House of cards, Shawn.
January 22, 2008 - 10:06 ET by Cool ArrowThere's going to be a humongous credit card default. Lots of people are going to be very angry when they realize their plastic rates have been jacked up to 30%
It's happening already to people barely making their mortgage payments.
Established consumers will do OK. My home is paid for. My job is somewhat insulated from a catastrophic crash, and my 401k hit will be significant but not crushing. I can actually benefit from this situation. But I realize I'm the exception rather than the rule.
Lots of people are living for the next paycheck and too many forces are exerted on them.
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
January 22, 2008 - 10:16 ET by shawn228God help us CA :-( Many folks on this site say that the msm is all doom and gloom and want to point out record setting #s on the dow and great economy. I hope I am proven wrong on this one, but I believe we are headed into a recession.
I love tax cuts as much as the next person, but does this make sense in the time of war? Or our Presidents plan. How doe 800 per person stimulate the economy? That can barely buy a decent LCD player.
How does Romney stop the applause?
Romney shows his compassion
→ Tax cuts
January 22, 2008 - 10:22 ET by Cool ArrowTax cuts are actually the best hedge against a recession. Booming economy with low taxes beats depressed economy with high taxes every time.
This rebate nonsense is a shot of B12. You'll feel good all day, but you really need to exercise and lose weight.
I ♣ My Seal
Tax cuts can never hedge
January 22, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Evil CapitalistTax cuts can never hedge resession. Hedging is taking an offsetting position where you lose X on one side but gain Y on the other side with X and Y being roughly equal.
Tax cuts make the total cost of goods cheaper and hence lower the risk of engaging in a new enterprise. Optimally, engaging or non-engaging in a new enterprise is only determined by how risk-free rate of return stacks up against non-risk free rate of return.
→ Tax cuts
January 22, 2008 - 10:22 ET by Cool ArrowTax cuts are actually the best hedge against a recession. Booming economy with low taxes beats depressed economy with high taxes every time.
This rebate nonsense is a shot of B12. You'll feel good all day, but you really need to exercise and lose weight.
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
January 22, 2008 - 11:11 ET by shawn228"
This rebate nonsense is a shot of B12. You'll feel good all day, but you really need to exercise and lose weight."
100 percent agree CA. Hey you and I did not mention porn once, how bout that? lol. Have a good day.:-)
How does Romney stop the applause?
Romney shows his compassion
Shawn
January 22, 2008 - 11:13 ET by Cool ArrowWill wonders never cease?
I ♣ My Seal
Hey you and I did not
January 22, 2008 - 11:42 ET by Hero SquadOops. You just did.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
It will help not only
January 22, 2008 - 10:28 ET by Hero SquadIt will help not only those who want a decent LCD player, but those who manufacture them as well.
For me, it's probably the difference between being able to take the tribe on a trip to Ocean City this year or not. Keep the money moving and it keeps the economy moving.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
→ Hero
January 22, 2008 - 10:37 ET by Cool ArrowI'm thinking $800 will help lots of people get caught up on the interest they owe on credit cards. That's nothing more than pouring the rebate down a dark hole.
The purpose of a rebate is for the money to recirculate several times before it ends up in such receptacles.
I ♣ My Seal
For some, that is correct.
January 22, 2008 - 10:51 ET by Hero SquadFor some, that is correct. My credit cards are all paid off, fortunately, so whatever my rebate ends up being, it can be redirected elsewhere (vacation, and possibly for some home improvement projects that ultimately increase the value of Hero Squad Manor.)
But even for people who do use it for credit cards, theoretically, that can free up other monies for purchases that they would not have been able to make otherwise (hopefully needs, not wants). And if it helps them get caught up, hopefully it's a lesson learned.
As a guy who once had $10,000+ in credit card debt, I know that sinking feeling and I do everything I can to prevent that from happening again. Usually that just means "go without until you can pay cash." And I'm OK with that. Hence, my 8-year-old computer and 12-year-old car.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I payed off my credit cards
January 22, 2008 - 13:29 ET by alamojbI payed off my credit cards on my first overseas deployment with the National Gaurd, but right now my self employment buisness is slow. I need to look for another line of work I guess.
Shawn your comment "That
January 22, 2008 - 10:48 ET by Dan The Man 2Shawn your comment "That can barely buy a decent LCD player" illustrates exacly what is wrong with America today and why people are hurting. They overextend themselves and when it comes time they crash. Americans are told they can have it all and to mortgage to the hilt and we are surprised when they fall.
I say it lies in edcuation of the consumer and common sense spending.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dan the man
January 22, 2008 - 10:52 ET by shawn228It was just an example of what the buying power of 800 dollars is. I will use another example if you like. That would probably pay for half a months rent in the San Francisco Bay Area.
I like tax cuts and free money as much as the next person. The play by the President and 800 per person will cost 150 billion alone. How are we going to get money to fund social security, fund the 2 wars, medicare. The money has to come from somewhere. Printing more money imo is not the answer. 9 trillion in debt and counting does not sound like fiscal spending to me.
How does Romney stop the applause?
Romney shows his compassion
Actually, it's not "free
January 22, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Hero SquadActually, it's not "free money." It's money that you earned that the government is returning to you, in the hopes that you spend it, then that person spends it, etc., so that it eventually generates more tax revenue for the government than had the money just stayed in the government's coffers.
Is it perfect? No. Of course some people will hoard it, some will use it in ways that don't generate tax revenue. But by and large, people will spend it and revenue will be recouped.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
$INDU is irrelevant. What
January 22, 2008 - 10:40 ET by Evil Capitalist$INDU is irrelevant. What relevant is that while our banking regulators were asleep at the wheel, the banks were allowed to get themselves into illiquid positions that they can't get out of without realizing the loss.
Our entire economy is based on Net X payment model - businesses sign contracts, the vendor draws on an opex credit line, invoices the buyer, gets the payment several days or months later, pays off the credit line and makes some profit. Right now banks are making it really hard to keep credit lines open or get new ones!That is the problem.
Guess what happens when there credit lines are unavailable? Right, we have to wait to get paid before we do any work. That is the reason for economic slowdown. No amount of money in the banking system is going to fix it unless the banks start lending money again. Why don't they do it? Because they have fake assets on the books. The banks have worthless paper on the books that they keep booking at 80-100% of its face value! Until the percentage of those overvalued assets falls into the accounting error the banks will continue to hoard money to beef up their balance sheets.
No tax cut and no homeowner bailout is going to unlock credit markets until banks write off the losses and face the consequences.
What we need is to force commercial and invenstment banks to mark their assets to market and liquidate those who have liabilities higher than the assets. Oh, and the CEOs that signed off on the SEC filings that value Level 3 assets as Level 1 at a face value should be criminally prosecuted - we created that law specifically to avoid the situations where company executives could lie. Want to be a CEO and make hundreds of million dollars? Great! But you can't -lie- to do that.
→ Thank you oh evil capitalist
January 22, 2008 - 11:02 ET by Cool ArrowI'm seeing a big coverup that can't stave off payback time for long.
Those who lack the flexibility of a self directed 401k are going to take a hit, but not likely a catastrophic hit.
I ♣ My Seal
Is Shawn a Pothead?
January 22, 2008 - 10:54 ET by PopularTechShawn, are you trying to convince more conservatives to vote for Romney? Please show EVERYONE your videos! I really don't think Romney or any Republican candidate is worried about the loser weakminded Pothead vote.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
My wife and I voted early
January 22, 2008 - 10:03 ET by BruzillaMy wife and I voted early here in Florida, and cast two votes for Fred Thompson. Fred, if you're reading this, hang in there buddy!
Reports of his demise...
January 22, 2008 - 10:09 ET by Syrius...sometime today.
I didn't know you could
January 22, 2008 - 10:53 ET by Hero SquadI didn't know you could cast two votes. ;-)
Hope he hangs out until the Pennsylvania Primary. But even if he bows out, I'll still vote for him. I didn't spend $3 on a bumper sticker to not vote for the guy!
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
That statement "I didn't
January 22, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Dan The Man 2That statement "I didn't spend $3 on a bumper sticker to not vote for the guy!" in itself would make a good bumbersticker. LOL
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Bad, but we've been there.
January 22, 2008 - 10:12 ET by Missouri ConservativeFor us to have the equivalent of 1987 today, the market would have to drop about 2,400 points. This is just the market reacting to the drop in overseas markets, combined with firms like Citigroup posting big losses. Personally, I think this is what needs to happen. These financial institutions need to continue to write off all those bad loans, take the losses, and start anew. It will be painful in the short run, but the market will recover. There will probably be some good buying opportunities out there in the coming weeks.
"women and minorities hardest hit"
The masses
January 22, 2008 - 10:32 ET by iveseenitallVote Democrat "liberal", Socialist "liberal", Communist "liberal", Hill-ar-ee,Hill-ar-ee, Hill-ar-ee! --- Lambs to slaughter..
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
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35 years – 40,000,000 and counting
ELECTION 2008: 94% of evangelicals rank abortion No. 1
January 22, 2008 - 10:53 ET by vrwc13ELECTION 2008
94% of evangelicals rank abortion No. 1
Christians put issue ahead of personal debt, content of movies, TV, homosexual agenda
http://www.worldnetd...
v
It's only a "baby" if it has a "mother" who wants it. If not, it's a "fetus" and a "woman." Got it? motherbelt
If Evangelicals put Abortion before Family Finances...
January 22, 2008 - 11:56 ET by PopularTech...there is not much more I can say, except their priorities are out of touch with reality.
"Sorry honey, the house is in foreclosure and I lost my job but don't worry because I donated our life's savings to the Right to Life foundation."
I mean if this is irrational stance you want to present to everyone, good luck with the support.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
The truth is PopTech
January 22, 2008 - 14:08 ET by vrwc13...you can recover from bankruptcy or debt.
...you cannot bring the dead baby back to life...
v
"You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13
...sorry could not find one of the Ten Commandments on debt.
Does this weak ass argument work on people you talk too?
January 22, 2008 - 15:23 ET by PopularTechDo you seriously try to convince people to put abortion before their families finances? Should abortion come before paying for food for my children? Should it come before my mortgage or rent payments for my house or apartment? Should it come before my my job that I have to provide for my family?
I am really interested in knowing. It is one thing to be Pro-Life as I am, it is another to fanatical and out of touch with reality.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
it's called faith PopTech...not my words but HIS...
January 22, 2008 - 15:32 ET by vrwc13Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
…. 13 "You shall not murder.
and...
Matthew 6:25
Do Not Worry
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not LIFE more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
v
Congress is in BIG Trouble, not the economy
January 22, 2008 - 10:50 ET by JayTeeAmericans have to adjust to High Gas Prices, and the Do nothing Congress passed an Energy Bill with NO Energy.
The magic Ethanol/Hydrogen Bullet is NOT here. We're still waiting for Congress to legislate a Silver Bullet......it ain't happening.
Congress is Legislating a CAFE standard that will force Detroit Auto makers to make cars Americans won't buy......The Geo Metro died a natural death, Congress can't legislate it back to life and BIG Sales numbers.
Drill ANWR, Drill Gulf of Mexico, Drill Oil Shale in the West, Drill often.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Yes,DRILL!
January 22, 2008 - 11:19 ET by iveseenitallRemember the 70's? Heck, remember the 40's? It's arguable that a world war was lost (or won) due in large part to the oil issue. Yet to our discredit, we haven't learned anything for decades. Whatever the reason---corruption, ignorance, stupidity, "liberalism", our backs are now against the wall. Drill now for your kids' sake. Stop listening to the nay sayers--they've got an agenda which will lead to our destruction much more quickly than so-called "global warming" or "environmental pollution". Like it or not, we ARE oil dependent. A feel- good ,la la land attitude is for the immature "liberals". Grow up and face the problem America!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Florida Residents need to know the real McCain
January 22, 2008 - 10:57 ET by PopularTech"I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy." - John McCain
Age: 71
- Graduated 894th out of 899 in his class at the United States Naval Academy
Betrayal, deceit, corruption and John McCain (The U.S. Veteran Dispatch)
"While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 - just a month after dumping his crippled wife and securing a divorce."
Abortion:
John McCain Supports Embryonic Stem Cell Research (Audio)
McCain Softens Abortion Stand (The Washington Post)
"But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations." - John McCain
Foreign Policy:
McCain falls asleep during the State of the Union Address (Video)
McCain to Close Gitmo: "The first day I am President" (Video)
Global Warming:
McCain and Lieberman Push for New Anti-Global Warming Legislation (The National Center for Public Policy Research)
Senators McCain and Lieberman Propose Energy Tax (The National Center for Public Policy Research)
"No drilling in ANWR, nor in the Everglades, nor off the coast of Florida... To think that drilling in ANWR is the solution to our incredible energy needs is frankly, is not keeping in the reality of what's there, and what it would take to get it out" - John McCain
Illegal Immigration:
John McCain gets a 'D' on his Immigration Voting Report Card (Americans for Better Immigration)
- McCain favors business lobbyists’ desires for foreign workers vs. protecting American workers’ wages and jobs
- McCain’s hopes of giving millions amnesty will saddle American taxpayers with huge costs of $20,000 per illegal per year
- McCain has taken the pro-amnesty position in nearly two dozen votes
- McCain only promises to make 2 million of the 12-20 million illegal aliens go home
John McCain Praises Pro-illegal Protests (NewsMax)
McCain called plan 'amnesty' in 2003 (WorldNetDaily)
"I think we can set up a program where amnesty is extended to a certain number of people, Amnesty has to be an important part..." - John McCain, 2003
Michigan Crowd Boos McCain On Illegal Immigration (Video) (1min)
McCain Voted For Illegal Immigrants To Collect Social Security (UC Daily News)
Marriage:
McCain: Same-sex marriage ban is un-Republican (CNN)
Taxes:
McCain Boasts That He Voted Against The Bush Tax Cuts (Video)
McCain Would Vote Against Tax Cuts Again (The Club for Growth)
- McCain sponsored and voted for an enormous 282% tax increase on cigarettes in 1998
- McCain was one of only two Republican to vote against the $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001
- McCain was one of only two Republicans to twice vote against permanent repeal of the death tax in 2002
- McCain was one of only three Republican to twice vote against the $350 billion tax cut in 2003
McCain’s Costly Tax on Energy (National Review Online)
- The EPA Estimates Sen. McCain's Plan Would Hike Gas Taxes By 68 Cents Per Gallon
- The EPA Estimates Sen. McCain's Plan Would Reduce United States GDP By As Much As $5.2 Trillion
McCain Rejects Anti-Tax Pledge (CNSNews)
Veterans:
McCain Can't Buy His Way Out of Votes Against Funding for Veterans
- McCain Voted Against $19 Billion for Military Hospitals
- McCain Voted Against Amendment to Provide $2.8 Billion For Veterans' Medical Care
- McCain Voted Against 2005 Amendment to Provide Guaranteed Funding Stream for Veterans' Health Care
- McCain Voted Against Establishing $1 Billion Trust Fund to Provide Improvements to Military and Veterans' Health Facilities
- McCain Voted Against Adding $1.5 billion to Veterans' Medical Services in FY 2007 by Closing Corporate Tax Loopholes
- McCain Voted Against Mandatory Funding of $6.9 Billion in FY 2007 and $104 Billion Over Five Years for Veterans' Health Care
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
I agree with with this ad and my name in Mitt Romney
January 22, 2008 - 11:00 ET by vrwc13I agree with with this ad and my name in Mitt Romney
Nope Sorry
January 22, 2008 - 11:40 ET by PopularTechWhile I support Romney, Thompson and Rudy (also supported Hunter and Tancredo), implying lies about these things does not help the Huckster.
Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
I think the Huckster is
January 22, 2008 - 12:57 ET by Gary P JacksonI think the Huckster is runnin' on fumes about now. The evangelicals are the only ones voting for him, and he isn't even getting all of their vote. He's already cut travel and other expenses. It was fun while it lasted, I guess!
Gary P... Yeah I heard he
January 22, 2008 - 13:05 ET by bigtimerGary P...
Yeah I heard he and McCain have both made cuts in their campaigns this morning...the reports were made as after thoughts compared to when Rudy had to cut staff with no pay for awhile...why that was major breading news for a few days...
Ahhh the good ol' msm...they just get so breathless with anticipation hoping a major player they are fearful of may be forced out....they show their true colors so blatantly then don't understand why we vote for the obvious bias they all show.
→ Gary P
January 22, 2008 - 13:05 ET by Cool ArrowAnd the polling in Fla. has Romney ahead of Rudy.
I think it may be time to close ranks behind him, be done with the infighting, and enjoy the circus on the Left.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Oh yeah. If our side can
January 22, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Gary P JacksonOh yeah. If our side can keep it together, it will make for a fun November. I only watched a few seconds of the debate last night, literally. Hillary was so shrill I was afraid glass would break, and Obama looked like a grade schooler giving his first oral book report!
Any of our candidates would wear these people out at a debate, but it does look like Mitt will win Florida, so it's time to put an end to the infighting. If Romney wins Florida he will have so much momentum, it will be hard to stop him, although the media will give it their best shot.
From what I understand about Mormons, they are taught very young how to be articulate, polished speakers. I can only imagine what a side by side with the dim candidate would look like!
Great french fries,
January 22, 2008 - 11:00 ET by Hero SquadGreat french fries, though.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
I'm glancing at
January 22, 2008 - 11:13 ET by taterI'm glancing at MSNBC...when they started the dow was down nearly 400 points and making a big stink about it...now it's down less than 50. I'm going to laugh if it finishes positive.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
It would be very bad if dow
January 22, 2008 - 11:20 ET by Evil CapitalistIt would be very bad if dow finishes up. A couple of days from now market again will start sliding down and Fed is running out of bullets.
Evil Capitalist, maybe you
January 22, 2008 - 11:40 ET by balboaEvil Capitalist, maybe you can shed some light on this whole situation. Are we headed for an economic downturn?
If we do not let markets do
January 22, 2008 - 12:40 ET by Evil CapitalistIf we do not let markets do what they do best ( which is take money away from those who made bad bets and give it to those who made good bets ), then soon we will be facing the Mother of All Recessions and not just in the United States but in the entire world.
We have witnessed markets working like charm - GSCO was short mortgage related assets just when BOA, CITI, MLCO etc got caught on the long side with their panties down.
"Helping" markets is punishing GSCO and encouraging BOA, CITI and MLCO. Most importantly, because neither BOA nor CITI nor MLCO nor others will learn.
Unfortunately, I'm not convinced Republicans would stop a veto-override of a bailout package ( and make no mistake, it is going to be a Wall St bail out package no matter how it is dressed up ) or event that Bush would veto it. It does not help that our Fed chairman is a clueless academic that never ran a successful company.
→ No fair Evil Cap
January 22, 2008 - 12:45 ET by Cool ArrowSo far you're not giving me anything to disagree with you on.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Evil I see your point and
January 22, 2008 - 12:54 ET by taterEvil I see your point and it's a good one...I was more pointing out how MSNBC (along with others) have been frothing at the mouth for a recession. The fact they've been highlighting the dow being way down seemed like they were rooting it on. Then it started to go up...I'm more rooting for egg on their face.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
→ tater
January 22, 2008 - 12:58 ET by Cool ArrowI'm hoping for the best, but I'm feeling 1975 all over again.
It took 4 years of Jimmy Carter and a couple of months of Ronald Reagan to start climbing out.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Oh, never mind. I
January 22, 2008 - 13:17 ET by Evil CapitalistOh, never mind. I misunderstood. I think PMS-NBC's commentators lack of business clue is given.
BUT THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!
January 22, 2008 - 11:21 ET by TinianI'm going to laugh if it finishes positive.
All the gloom & doom posters here are nuts. We'll have plenty of legitimate worries when President Hillary starts meddling with the market: "Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said that if she became president, the
federal government would take a more active role in the economy to
address what she called the excesses of the market and of the Bush
administration."
Right, tater
January 22, 2008 - 11:32 ET by iveseenitallRight, the MSNBC champagne is still on ice. But, knowing them, they'll all get drunk later, even if it's to drown their sorrow at the market rise from the dead. In the meantime, they're rooting for a large drop. At newsrooms around America, you can hear the cry---"Re-cess-un", "Re-cess-un", "Re-cess-un"!---- Sickolas!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
First off, while the sell
January 22, 2008 - 12:48 ET by dscottFirst off, while the sell offs around the world do produce a big pshycological scare which is great for selling newspapers and upping ratings of the MSM nets, the sell off is strictly on paper, not based on reality.
How can I say that, well, let's look at what the consumer is doing, as of last week our gasoline consumption, i.e. our driving habits, (see the bottom graph on consumption) have not changed to show any reduction in the economy or GDP. Nor are retail sales off.
Like in 1987, the underlying "fear" psychology was focused on the housing market. Anyone who was invested in the market at that time, had they rode out the rollercoaster, would have made a 5% capital gain by July of 1989. Btw- the market so far has pretty much recovered the losses of this morning. The 3/4% rate cut by the Fed will lower borrowing costs exactly where it's needed, in the housing market (ARMS and subprime loans).
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Join the Media Violence Project -- or I will kill you
January 22, 2008 - 11:27 ET by Jack BauerAre you worried about the rapidy increasing incidents of random violence by members of the Mainstream Media?
Join the MEDIA VIOLENCE PROJECT... a new initiative from IOWAHAWK which seeks to bring to the attention of the public, the growing menace of unhinged journalists roaming the country creating mayhem and death.
Please join the effort to get troubled journalists off the street at: http://iowahawk.type...
THIS IS NO JOKE PEOPLE!!!!
Makes you think...who is
January 22, 2008 - 11:59 ET by taterMakes you think...who is responsible for more crimes, journalists or veterans that come back from wars.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
"Journalists"
January 22, 2008 - 12:16 ET by iveseenitallI've always had a problem with the these "journalists" who follow people around sticking a mike in their face. I don't like it when I see that Jesse guy do it on The Factor. He invades personal space and privacy, sans conscience. It's ironic that O'Rielly preaches not to justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior, yet he justifies Jesse's bad behavior all the time. As for other shows, their garbage goes without saying.This is the slippery slope."Journalists" in this nation have become too big for their own britches. Most of them are immature, ignorant, poorly-educated dolts who are bringing a once intelligent nation to its knees. The men ,in particular, have become nothing but feminized gossip-mongers. Just as with the "profession" of teaching, the "profession" of journalism is in the toilet to the detriment of us all. Both are now an extension of the entertainment industry. Worse still--they are without accountibility. Sad and, yes, dangerous.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Thanks for the link Jack!
January 22, 2008 - 13:09 ET by Gary P JacksonThanks for the link Jack! Went there for the journalist thing, and got to see some old drag racers doing it indoors! I've seen midgets* race indoors, but no drag racing. Cool!
* Before anyone starts, midgets are race cars, about 3/4 the size of sprint cars. The mostly run on dirt, and are fast!
Jack...
January 22, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Clear thinkerHow in the world did you find that one?
Being a huge Mopar fan I thought I knew almost everything about drag racing. That indoor racing track was a pleasant surprise.
Before the violence get's any worse, I say we lock up all journalists until further notice!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
clear - my
January 22, 2008 - 13:30 ET by Jack Bauerclear - my apologies.
Iowahawk must have changed the page just as I copied the link.
Here's the correct link to the...
The mortgage "crises" was largely caused by government.
January 22, 2008 - 12:00 ET by R D HelmIn watching the MSM coverage of this entire hideous affair, I have noticed that one of the biggest reasons that the mortgage lenders are in trouble, at least in the southeastern part of the country, (though I suspect this is much the case in other regions as well) is due directly to the involvment of the government. Yes, I know that unscrupulous lenders are part of the problem, but not nearly as much of the problem as the MSM is trying to make them.
One can also try and make the argument that is was also a lack of oversight on the part of government regulators. Hogwash. It is the government regulators that are in this up to their eyeballs.
This is a prime (no pun intended) example of what happens when social busy-body, "we care more than you" do-gooder types team up with government to solve a "problem" that does not, in fact, exist.
Remember the redlining "scandal" a few years back? I do, as this was a huge issue in the region where I reside (the southeast). It seems that some socially minded types got together and decided that not enough low-income type people, and especially minorities, were able to buy there own homes. The reason was that mortgage lenders were refusing to loan them money. Well, this, of course, just had to be due to "discrimination," the conventional wisdom went, and so off to the government they went, demanding something be done about this "intolerable" situation.
Well, government, as is nearly always the case, stepped in to fix the "problem." The solution? Forcing mortgage lenders to carry a certain percentage of high-risk loans in their portfolios. And what was more, if the lenders did not play along, there were going to be all sorts of unpleasant fines and penalties that were going to be levied against them by wonderful, caring government inspectors.
After all, all Americans have a "right" to own there own home, do they not?
In order to meet these "quotas," many lenders were forced to loan money to people not otherwise qualified. This is how much of these zero-down mortgages and the like, got thier start. It was the only way many of these people could buy these houses.
I cannot speak for the rest of the country, but in this area this lunacy was enforced rather aggressively. I had friends in the industry who told me that, every so often, some government goon would show up at their office and start pouring through their loan books. If the goverment guy didn't like what he saw, there were all sorts of actions that would be threatend to get the lending company to play along.
Next time you feel the need to blame this all on less than ethical lenders, just remember that it was not entirely their fault.
______________________________________________
For those of you who think this same government should step in and bail these people out (with our money) consider this: I have seen reports around here that approximately 70% of the loan applicants now faced with losing their homes lied on their loan applications.
Bet you will not see that reported anywhere in the MSM.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
→ Yes, Helm
January 22, 2008 - 12:01 ET by Cool ArrowIt got so easy people were "buying" with nothing down.
In a very real sense their contract was nothing more than "Rent to Own"
For the most part there was no personally sunk capital, so it was much easier to walk away while maintaining the right to say they'd been seindled.
I ♣ My Seal
And now, today's Shrub
January 22, 2008 - 12:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
Happy 102nd birthday, Robert E. Howard.
Move over, Global Warming. Step aside, acid rain. There's a new "global crisis" in town!
How long until Wikipedia caves?
Did you know that Italy has had 37 Prime Ministers since World War 2? That is one country that cannot get their crap together.
One important question for you, Mr. Bin Laden: boxers or briefs?
Time for a gratuitous hot chicks in bikinis shot.
Its time for Fun with AP Headlines! Headline: . Reality: Chemicals maker DuPont said Tuesday fourth-quartDuPont 4Q Profit Drops 37 Percenter earnings fell 37 percent from a year earlier, when one-time items bolstered the bottom line. But excluding those items, profit rose sharply and exceeded Wall Street expectations as the company's international business surged. Headline: Bad. Reality: Good.
Even the UN is admitting they "cannot ignore the recent improvements". Does that mean the Democrat(ic)s in Congress are even MORE clueless than the UN? Wearing that badge proudly, comrades!
And, finally, the 10 ugliest jerseys in sports.
Thanks, AP...
January 22, 2008 - 17:10 ET by HermanoI am looking to have a good year with DuPont and the AP is trying to screw it up? This is the reason our economy is in the tank. Because the AP says it is. Oh, I think I am getting it now. If the AP says it, it must be FALSE!
Townhall Rational?
January 22, 2008 - 13:15 ET by LeonImagine my surprise to find myself agreeing with Michael Medved concerning the lack of influence all of the hate-filled right wing talk show hosts have had on this election process.
Excerpt from the article:
The big loser in South Carolina was, in fact, talk radio: a medium that has unmistakably collapsed in terms of impact, influence and credibility because of its hysterical and one-dimensional involvement in the GOP nomination fight.For more than a month, the leading conservative talkers in the country have broadcast identical messages in an effort to demonize Mike Huckabee and John McCain. If you’ve tuned in at all to Rush, Sean, Savage, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin, Hugh Hewitt, Dennis Prager, and two dozen others you’ve heard a consistent drum beat of hostility toward Mac and Huck. […]In other words, the talk radio jihad against Mac and Huck hasn’t destroyed or even visibly damaged those candidates. But it has damaged, and may help destroy, talk radio.
Great great article. About time people stopped listening to these idiots.
LINK
Leon... Michael Medved
January 22, 2008 - 13:20 ET by bigtimerLeon...
Michael Medved doesn't speak for me...
I listen to who I want to...I make up my own mind about any given topic or situation as most conservatives do...
Unlike the sheeple on the left.
Funny, isn't it BT?
January 22, 2008 - 13:26 ET by RJHe latches onto a silly rant and thinks it's the Holy Grail.
MSM darlings Huckabee and McCain are on their way out....and conservative talk radio remains strong.
Morning RJ...You said it
January 22, 2008 - 13:30 ET by bigtimerMorning RJ...
You said it all.
Btw...are you listening to Rush this morning speaking of radio...I'm laughing as he talks about McCain and Fred Barnes ect....
RJ, Just
January 22, 2008 - 13:31 ET by LeonRJ,
Just curious.
What makes you say that McCain is on the way out?
Surely isn't polling.
No money, leon
January 22, 2008 - 14:01 ET by RJThe national popularity contests so loved by the MSM and liberals haven't translated to cash.
BT, As you said, we make up
January 22, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Chris NormanBT,
As you said, we make up on own minds and just enjoy listening to our radio talk shows of choice.
The "Mind Numbed Zombies" is a myth invented by liberals to reassure themselves that conservatism is a temporary aberration caused by the hypnotic voice of Rush Limbaugh. It also helps make them feel intellectually superior - they seem to need that self reassurance to bolster their
low self-esteem.
Hi Chris.... Airdead
January 22, 2008 - 13:44 ET by bigtimerHi Chris....
Airdead Amerika comes to mind regarding your last sentence when it comes to the left....intellectually superior indeed...lol.
BT, I know. It's pretty
January 22, 2008 - 14:04 ET by Chris NormanBT,
I know. It's pretty comical to watch them go around so pretentiously pumped up. They act like they're so intelligent, and then propose these childish feel good government remedies to the problems they caused in the first place with their childish feel good government programs. They're like selfish bratty children pretending to be grown ups.
In your dreams
January 22, 2008 - 13:52 ET by iveseenitallDestroy talk radio?--Dream on! (as Bill did this week at the black church).
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
→ It's working Leon
January 22, 2008 - 13:20 ET by Cool ArrowHuckabee and McAnus are old news. Romney was, and is the Talk Radio darling. And darned if he isn't in front with every indication he will win Florida.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, McCain is old
January 22, 2008 - 13:24 ET by LeonCool,
McCain is old news?
How do you figure? Almost every single national poll has him with a sizable lead.
LINK
He's going to win the nomination easily.
So Medved is correct. The sliming strategy of all the ex-drug addict right wing hate mongers hasn't worked at all.
Despite all of the attacks from the right against McCain, he's poised to win the nomination.
You're a Romney guy? Really?
→ Hide and watch, Leon
January 22, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Cool ArrowWho do you think has more Primary votes so far?
And "drug addicts"? I would hope a liberal such as yourself would show more compassion. Having been a pack a day smoker for some years, I understand addiction.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, I don't know who
January 22, 2008 - 13:36 ET by LeonCool,
I don't know who has the most primary votes so far nor do I know where to find that information out.
I don't have compassion for drug addicts. It's a choice. Esp. not addicts like Rush who attacked other addicts while lying about their own addictions.
Sure it was hard to quit smoking but that was your choice and as such, you don't get any sympathy from me. I used to use dip in highschool and for a little while in college before it started to mess my gums up. I knew what I was doing, I knew it was wrong, and I knew it could kill me, yet I did it anyways. This isn't behavior that should garner compassion from others.
Leon
January 22, 2008 - 13:47 ET by OldSailor88You need to study addiction before you start spewing bile like, "I don't have compassion for drug addicts. It's a choice." I am an alcoholic in recovery and I am here to tell you that after a short period of time it is no longer a choice. The effect of your chemical on your brain starts making that choice for you, and until you find someone to help you change your lifestyle, you are stuck with a 500 pound gorilla that won't let you have any other choice. I don't want your compassion, and after seeing what you typed, am glad that someone else saw that I was out of control. The Navy chose to treat me and keep me in, and now, 6 years sober, am a very viable member of the fighting team. Until now I never really thought of you as a fool, but your words have proven me wrong.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
OldSailor, Drug addiction
January 23, 2008 - 09:30 ET by LeonOldSailor,
Drug addiction is nothing more than a lack of will power and self-control.
All you had to do was put the bottle down. Literally that's all it would have taken, but you didn't have the will power.
All this liberal, feel good, it's not your fault, garbage is just that...garbage. people always complain about how liberals are establishing a society in which everyone is coddled and made to feel like nothing is ever their fault.
That's weak. The fact of the matter is you didn't want to stop drinking so you didn't until you were forced to. Had you really wanted to stop drinking, you would have stopped drinking. The fact that you didn't wasn't a result of a disease, it was the result of your lack of self control
I believe that you can be predisposed to addicition but I also believe that it doesn't matter b/c ultimately it's a choice.
→ Did Leon say Addiction
January 23, 2008 - 09:35 ET by Cool ArrowAre you still harping on this subject when you can't answer two very pertinent questions?
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, I already said I
January 23, 2008 - 09:39 ET by LeonCool,
I already said I don't know the answers. I don't know who Mr. Ranger or where Jellystone park is?
Is this something I should know? You act as if the answer is obvious but I really have no idea.
So either tell me the answers or drop it.
→ Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:42 ET by Cool ArrowI've got it all broken down for you. Click here.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
→ Still avoiding the questions Leon?
January 23, 2008 - 08:56 ET by Cool ArrowThen you'll understand if many find it hard to feel sorry for those who are addicted to Government assistance. And make no mistake, fifth generation recipients are addicted to the system. White and Black.
But I do feel sorry for them. Sorry they've believed the hypnotic allure of Liberal bondage.
Doubtless, you'll jump all over this analogy and go for an end run around the discussion, but here goes:
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
So this is what compassion,
January 22, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Gary P JacksonSo this is what compassion, tolerance, and understanding that liberals screech about looks like. Not a pretty picture!
It's not like Rush was out smokin' crack with the "cool kids". The man got hooked on prescription pain killers. In fact, he lost his hearing over it. But not once did the guy piss and moan (like a liberal would have) Rush took time, went through rehab, and got off the stuff. He says it was the best experience of his life.
Gary, All the while he
January 23, 2008 - 08:45 ET by LeonGary,
All the while he ruthlessly attacked other drug addicts.
If he hadn't attacked others that were like him from a fake position of moral superiority, then I wouldn't have given him grief at all.
I understand he was addicted to drugs, I just can't figure out why he felt he had the right to criticize others that were addicted to drugs.
It's so extremely hypocritical, I can't believe you all try to defend his actions.
He's a junky and sex tourist. Sorry. The guy has a lot of problems.
Hey Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:01 ET by Cool ArrowYou seem to be running from a couple of questions on addiction I asked you.
Stop pontificating and start answering
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, I don't see any
January 23, 2008 - 09:07 ET by LeonCool,
I don't see any questions in your post. What the hell is jellystone park? Never heard of it.
I have no clue what you're asking me.
→ Typical Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:15 ET by Cool ArrowBut everybody reading your evasive posts knows exactly what this is all about. Come on, Leon, it's gotta bother you a little chickening away from a couple of simple questions. You being an expert on addiction and all.
The questions are simple.
You are condemning addicts, I'm just asking about feeding the bears at Jellystone Park.
OOPS! I might have given away one of the answers.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, Feeding bears at
January 23, 2008 - 09:18 ET by LeonCool,
Feeding bears at Jellystone Park?
There's no such park. What the heck are you talking about?
You knew to link to Town
January 22, 2008 - 13:56 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou knew to link to Town Hall (where I am sure you visit daily, of course) and to link to "national" polls where you are 100% positive McCain will win the nomination, yet, in the next breath, have no friggin' clue where you could find out who has the most delegates so far, which could be found at such obscure websites like CNN?
I know you hate everything-Limbaugh, but resorting to be a dumbass is comical.
Rog, I didn't know off
January 23, 2008 - 08:48 ET by LeonRog,
I didn't know off the top of my head and I didn't feel like looking it up.
I do like this new you though. Leon Police. It's wonderful to watch you try so hard. It's amazing to think of how much time you spend each day thinking of me.
Leon, you contradict yourself
January 22, 2008 - 14:05 ET by PawpawNLeon, you contradict yourself. At 13:24 you give links to polls, then at 13:36 you say you don't know how to look up etc. Quick turnaround. You never ever do anything but amaze me at your total lack of relevance!
Romney
January 22, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Evil CapitalistRomney
I don't understand...
January 22, 2008 - 13:47 ET by Clear thinkerWe cringe and throw fits when a Dem wants to introduce a huge welfare spending program, but then we (not me) are willing to give Romney a pass for doing the exact same thing in Mass.
Conservatives... a dying breed!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Fred is Dead! Time to change your tagline to ...
January 22, 2008 - 19:10 ET by Syrius...another loser?
Syrius
Yeah "Syrius" would be a good choice.
January 22, 2008 - 19:12 ET by MightyMouth"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I'm honored to represent the Right in it's...
January 22, 2008 - 19:31 ET by Syrius...time of need. Now go out and vote for John McCain!
Godspeed, John, Godspeed!
Syrius
Interesting logic. You
January 22, 2008 - 13:21 ET by Roger the ShrubberInteresting logic. You exclaim that it was "About time people stopped listening to these idiots" by listening to one of the above-mentioned idiots.
Rog, I don't listen to
January 22, 2008 - 13:26 ET by LeonRog,
I don't listen to Medved, I simply shared my surprise that for once I found myself agreeing with a Townhall writer.
He simply brought an interesting topic to my attention, and I shared it to hear what people that actually listen to this garbage think.
I sure hope he's right. Although it is nice to have Rush et al. around to keep a nice portion of the population at a lower level of intellect.
Meth and Limbaugh, controlling the Red State populations for all the rest of us. America thanks you.
So, the word of an idiot is
January 22, 2008 - 13:40 ET by Roger the ShrubberSo, the word of an idiot is okay, as long as it agrees with your idealogy? Makes perfect, idiotic sense.
Your snobbish disdain for us common folk is simply charming, btw.
Yep, and that's what they
January 22, 2008 - 13:48 ET by Chris NormanYep, and that's what they truly think of the working class - if they actually thought. It's kind of a self-affirmation mantra that makes them feel all superior.
I guess we could expect
January 22, 2008 - 14:01 ET by Roger the ShrubberI guess we could expect nothing less from a girlie-man Swarthie.
Rog,1) Your stalking
January 23, 2008 - 08:56 ET by LeonRog,
1) Your stalking of me and deep research conducted to attack is bizarre. I'm consuming your miniscule mind. Don't you have anything better to do out there in Pennsyltucky? Don't you have a hot cousin around somewhere? Some venison sausage to make? Perhaps a little moonshine to distill?
2) I wasn't aware that an outdoor ampitheater could be considered a negative for a school. Looks pretty sweet to me.
3) Are you surprised that the number 10 and number 24 liberal arts colleges are a little jealous of their top 3 counter parts?
4) Gary Coleman jokes repeated incessantly? Really? Gary Coleman? That's funny at Haverford? Wow.
5) You love me, you really really love me.
Right,Chris
January 22, 2008 - 14:01 ET by iveseenitallRight,Chris. The clown wants to "destroy" all those "hate radio" hosts. Where'd he get that from-- "love radio"?
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Leon, I think the demise of
January 22, 2008 - 13:41 ET by Gary P JacksonLeon, I think the demise of talk radio is quite premature. And the demise of Rush Limbaugh is way premature. The guy has 20 million listeners who like what he has to say. Barring some sort of health issue, the guy will be on the radio as long as he wants.
Crack and government
January 22, 2008 - 14:00 ET by Chris Norman"Meth and Limbaugh, controlling the Red State populations for all the rest of us."
Crack and government program dependency being the control over the Blue State populations for Leon and his ilk.
Chris, No way, Meth is
January 23, 2008 - 09:01 ET by LeonChris,
No way, Meth is way more destructive than Crack. Crack was focused almost exclusively on the inner-cities. Meth is everywhere. Those red state yokels are loving it. Eating it up like candy.
See, I'm afraid I'd get Meth-Mouth, but I guess most of them don't have their teeths anyways.
And are you really implying that the red states(aka south and midwest) don't use social welfare? Are you sure? Have you been to Atlanta? Memphis? St. Louis? Cleveland? Anywhere in Florida?
Meth vs Crack
January 23, 2008 - 09:04 ET by Cool ArrowLeon, since you're the expert on addiction, I'm still waiting since yesterday for you to finish this nonsense you started.
Answer some questions, please.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, What is your
January 23, 2008 - 09:09 ET by LeonCool,
What is your deal? Why are you following me around posting the same thing. I see you.
God, you're like a child begging for their parents's attention. I SEE YOU.
I don't know what Jellystone Park is, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have any clue what you are asking me.
→ Thanks, Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:19 ET by Cool ArrowI'll take that as proof you choose to just slither away when caught in hypocrisy.
Been fun.
Unless you answer two very easy questions
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, How have your
January 23, 2008 - 09:23 ET by LeonCool,
How have your questions that I don't understand about a place I've never heard of prove my hypocrisy?
Why don't you just explain yourself instead of trying to be witty and cute?
→ Every post, Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:29 ET by Cool ArrowEvery post you add brings attention to your feigned ignorance and lack of understanding of two very simple questions.
You are condemning of addicts, and began a diatribe against Rush on that issue.
You're twisting on the subject of addiction but can't quit posting over my reminders to you.
Here, I'll prove it.
MTWSHU
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, I seriously have no
January 23, 2008 - 09:34 ET by LeonCool,
I seriously have no clue what you are talking about.
Why don't you just tell me what the answers are so you can show me how I've been a hypocrite.
I genuinely have no idea what the answers to either of your questions are.
Leon, You seriously
January 23, 2008 - 09:38 ET by Cool ArrowYou seriously could not be that dense. But here goes.
Thankfully, HIV/AIDS has now become a chronic disease - Hillary Clinton
Cool, Because they'll
January 23, 2008 - 09:40 ET by LeonCool,
Because they'll come to your camp site and hurt you.
→ OK Leon
January 23, 2008 - 09:44 ET by Cool ArrowBut your answer proves you know nothing about addiction.
Cool, How so? Why are
January 23, 2008 - 10:15 ET by LeonCool,
How so?
Why are you being so vague?
Just get to the point.
→ Leon
January 23, 2008 - 10:30 ET by Cool ArrowI can't believe I'm bothering to spell this out for you.
Yellowstone Park wants its bears to act like bears.
Reducing them to beggars is not the natural order of bears. Until the early '60's it was cute to see the bears begging for food.
Breaking the bears from getting along on what's easy rather than hunting in the wild is no easy task.
Explaining the analogy any further is senseless.
McCain dropped 9 points in SC
January 22, 2008 - 13:46 ET by Jack BauerSounds like a 9% drop to me.
So despite the fact that McCain had the entire Republican establishment in South Carolina pulling out the stops for him, he actually LOST support.
Mmmm, wonder how that happened?
Glad to see, you out and about...
January 22, 2008 - 19:40 ET by SyriusJack Bauer,
It's too bad the writer's strike is still ongoing...I hope you'll find something to do in the meantime. Maybe, a nice cozy bar.
I hear you can launder & iron a mean jumpsuit!
Syrius
Welcome to the world of
January 23, 2008 - 07:13 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except intelligent life never made it past the primeval oozing slime stage.
jack bauer
God created us in his own image.
January 23, 2008 - 11:23 ET by SyriusJack,
I sense you're still pickled & looking for the next script. Run, Jack, run. Save us from the inhumanity of the terrorists! Time is tickin' away. What's our next mission? Saving the winging pommes from socialism! God save the Queen!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 23, 2008 - 15:03 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except it's in a parallel loonyverse.
McCain is 504 years old
January 22, 2008 - 13:53 ET by Jack BauerMcCain is 504 years old... in Cat Years.
Shhhh, don't tell Chuck Norris.
Dude, you are so lame, man.
January 22, 2008 - 13:58 ET by Roger the ShrubberDude, you are so lame, man. Chuck Norris is so, like 2003, dude.
Try to stay fresh with your pop-culture references. Bringing up Rush Limbaugh's pain-killer addiction is a good example of "staying fresh", dude.
Will McCain counterattack
January 22, 2008 - 14:09 ET by Chris NormanWill McCain counterattack with Pat Boone? Maybe Republicans should just give up on the Hollywood celebrity endorsements - it's kind of embarrasssing.
New Game for Debaters!
January 22, 2008 - 14:06 ET by PawpawNhttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0122081miniclip1.html
Fred pulled out
January 22, 2008 - 14:28 ET by bigtimerThompson has pulled out.
Sad day for some of us.
Sad day, BT. Sadder, that he
January 22, 2008 - 14:34 ET by Chris NormanSad day, BT. Sadder, that he never really even got started. He probably waited a bit too long to get in. Sadder yet if he endorses McCain.
Almost makes you wonder why
January 22, 2008 - 14:36 ET by balboaAlmost makes you wonder why he even bothered. He seemed to begrudgingly get in the race to begin with.
Now what? Everyone seems to be getting called out as a RINO, so...?
I honestly think he did it
January 22, 2008 - 15:00 ET by Roger the ShrubberI honestly think he did it to get on the ticket as vice prez.
There'll be much grumbling,
January 22, 2008 - 15:12 ET by Chris NormanThere'll be much grumbling, but sooner or later we will coalesce around someone - especially faced with Hillary. I don't know if any of them will be enough this time. It looks like the GOP is returning to it's pre-Reagan days when we had such memmorable moderates like Bob Michel, Clifford Case, Edward Brooke, et al. The kind of people who didn't disagree so much with the notion of big government as didn't want to spend quite as much money on it.
Hi Chris... I just posted
January 22, 2008 - 14:41 ET by bigtimerHi Chris...
I just posted about hoping he doesn't endorse McCain on another thread....
I hope the msm is happy now....he is getting more air time now than he ever has.
Too bad he didn't use the msm as I have posted before....he may have a lot of reasons to pull out, personal ones or he just doesn't have the money whatever...he sees the writing on the wall so I guess it is time to forget about it.
BT,What disappoints me is
January 22, 2008 - 15:16 ET by Chris NormanBT,
What disappoints me is that he wasn't as much of an influential and unifying figure as I know he could have been. I really do think it was timing. His laid back style required more time to resonate and be appreciated than the crazily compressed primary season that has developed.
Chris...
January 22, 2008 - 15:34 ET by Clear thinkerI strongly disagree. Fred ran a very good campaign. I saw it from day one that he was in it to win it. The problem he faced was the media. It is the media fault to a large degree, and the rest of the blame goes to Republicans that are too lazy to look at, and compare records, position papers, etc. Republicans have become lazy.
Fred having to back out is not his fault.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
CT,With respect, I disagree
January 22, 2008 - 15:44 ET by Chris NormanCT,
With respect, I disagree with your disagreement. I was a Thompson supporter. I didn't say it was his fault or that his campaign was bad. I said that, by joining the race tardily, he didn't give himself enough time to get any traction before the caucuses and primaries. By the time he entered, the new compressed campaign dynamics were already in place. His campaign appeared almost like a footnote. If a Republican candidate has to depend on media coverage, Lord help all of them. If voters are that lazy, how did they produce a Reagan?
For some reason, the Fred
January 22, 2008 - 15:44 ET by Gary P JacksonFor some reason, the Fred Thompson thread went away, but let me say it again. Fred Thompson didn't campaign well. He wanted to stay above it all, and that just doesn't cut it. Everyone else had about a year's worth of work in before Fred even started. I like Fred, but he just didn't bring his A game to this race, and by the time he finally found it, it was too late. Time to move on.
Chris and Gary...
January 22, 2008 - 15:50 ET by Clear thinkerI don't want to start a battle with two guys that I know have their heads on straight, so what I'm about to say may have the effect of pissing you off, but it really is NOT my intention.
Both of you sound like you are willing to sell out conservative principles when you make excuses that are not true. Did Fred catch on in time? Evidently not. Was it his fault? Absolutely not!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Did I say it was his fault?
January 22, 2008 - 18:00 ET by Chris NormanDid I say it was his fault? Absolutely not! He just started too late in the game. How can you bitterly brand that as untrue? It's not like I said he was a terrible campaigner and a fool. It's my opinion - not fact. How can something totally subjective be labeled as untrue? Please, some sense of proportion here.
Sell out conservative principles? Where in the heck did that come from? How am I selling out conservative principles, by offering my very benign and sympathetic opinion on why Fred Thompson was unsuccessful? Look, being disppointed that your candidate (and mine, I might add) dropped out is fine. But taking it out on a fellow conservative is misdirected and going way too far. Some people here need to simmer down. If this is any small indication of the bitterness and backbiting within the party going into the long campaign, we may as well get used to saying "President Clinton" again.
Chris -- Rich Galen was his
January 22, 2008 - 19:57 ET by Jack BauerChris -- Rich Galen was his campaign manager.
Rich is an amusing guy. But A-list material?
Proof: Thompson just dropped out. And Galen was publicly touting Fred for VP -- YESTERDAY.
Come on.
Won't make me mad, I'm here
January 22, 2008 - 16:24 ET by Gary P JacksonWon't make me mad, I'm here for a lively debate!
I like Fred a lot. But frankly, he's not a pure conservative. His backing of McCain-Feingold would have sent Reagan reeling. But when I say it is his fault, it is all about his late entry into the field, and the way he tried to stay above it. He even missed his first chance at a debate to go on a TV show. That's not the best way to start out.
I think Fred would have been an OK President, but nothing special. He's not Ronald Reagan reincarnate. And frankly, if you can't run a good campaign, especially when people are thirsty for someone like you, just how effective of a leader are you?
A lot of Fred's supporters have said he wanted to be asked to be President, because it is unseemly to "want" to be President. My goodness, if you don't want to be President with every ounce of your soul, you shouldn't run.
This isn't a dig at Fred, but while it is a cool thing on the old resume, and as dirt poor Clinton and Algore have proved, you can turn it into big money. But it is also a thankless job, that ages everyone incredibly. You are hated by half of the people! So you have to have a certain passion, a real fire in the belly. Fred may have had that deep down, but he never showed it.
I'm not willing to go against my principals, but I'm also not willing to give up. Reagan wasn't perfect, he wasn't even always a strong pro-life supporter. If you can believe he saw the light, why not someone else? Reagan allowed 3 million illegals to receive amnesty, which has resulted in 20 million more coming into the country. It can even be argued that while he was defeating the Soviet Union, he failed to see the growing Islamic threat, which has led us to where we are now. I loved Ronald Reagan. He was an inspiration to all of us. No one will ever measure up to his greatness. Hell even Obama is singing his praises!
But, when there is one candidate, still in the race, who understands what Reagan is about, why wouldn't you vote for him? Mitt Romney is not Reagan. He's not even trying to pretend he is, but he knows and understands what Reagan was about. Just like George Bush was the right man at the right time, so is he. Romney understands business, and at this point in time, that's very important. Romney understands we have to defeat the terrorists, and Romney realizes we gotta close the borders. Can you honestly tell me anything is more important that those three things?
All I know is this, the democrat candidates have no clue about how the economy works. They have no clue how to win a war, any war. And they damned sure have no intention of closing the borders.
So what are we to do?
I believe I had asked the question...
January 22, 2008 - 19:02 ET by Syrius...this morning. Look above, FRED IS DEAD! Next one up?
Syrius
Fox just grabbed Mitt
January 22, 2008 - 15:52 ET by Gary P JacksonFox just grabbed Mitt Romney for a comment. Very classy, he said nice things about Thompson. He also stated it was a shame because he and Fred are the only ones who are trying to pull the Reagan coalition together. Romney gets it. He understands that Reagan's brand of conservatism is big tent. He knows you can't appeal just to one issue voters and win.
That's a winning strategy folks.
Actor Heath Ledger found dead.
January 22, 2008 - 17:31 ET by R D HelmMore bad news.
He was good in The Patriot. Didn't see Brokeback.
Think I will go have that beer now.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
damn, there goes brokeback
January 22, 2008 - 17:39 ET by TruthMongerdamn, there goes brokeback 2 "back in the saddle" or something along those lines:(
Truthie, have a heart, will ya?
January 22, 2008 - 17:47 ET by R D HelmI mean, the poor guy's body probably is not even cold yet.
Sheesh.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
ok - no more jokes from me
January 22, 2008 - 17:52 ET by TruthMongerok - no more jokes from me until someone else cracks one
no pun intended:)
History is always current
January 22, 2008 - 23:27 ET by WesenFine Reading:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1634287/posts
" There are in that House many very wealthy men... Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it."
Very noble. That guy is
January 23, 2008 - 02:31 ET by Gary P JacksonVery noble. That guy is gone. It's time to get behind someone .
Someone who will win!
The Orphanage
January 23, 2008 - 09:59 ET by Dee BunkI forgot to mention that I saw the Orphanage (one of the films that inspired this thread) this past week end. I liked it a lot.
As I said, I'm not big on horror and this didn't turn out to be horror in my opinions. It's slower and more like a psychological thriller. The acting is really good and I loved the ending. I see so many movies that I'm often disappointed in the endings because I feel like I know how it's going to end in the first 15 min. This one took a turn that I wasn't expecting.
oops! this was supposed to be in the film thread
January 23, 2008 - 10:01 ET by Dee Bunkoops! this was supposed to be in the film thread